Deep Dive
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Someday we're going to look back and be amazed that you could actually buy a whole Bitcoin for less than $100,000. Yesterday we saw an all-time high Bitcoin, 93,000. Fun fact here, Bitcoin took nine years to reach 20K and it has jumped by more than that
just the past week. Ever since the Bitcoin president won the election, there's been a massive surge of inflows into the Bitcoin ETFs, more than $21 billion in a week. We have institutions hoarding more and more Bitcoin. MicroStrategy just bought another 27,200 more, which is their biggest purchase in years. Google searches for crypto have spiked, but that's not why we're here today. Oh no. Today on Dumb Money...
why we think Bitcoin's true value is still underestimated. We're going to reveal what we're calling the Bitcoin best kept secret. This is Dumb Money Live.
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power to do. Visit bankofamerica.com slash banking for business. Bank of America is proud to be the official bank sponsor of FIFA World Cup 2026. Hey there, Dave here along with Chris and Jordan. We are Dumb Money. Welcome to Dumb Money Live, reminding you, make markets green again, smash the old like button,
Chris Chortney. It feels like deja vu. Doing two shows in a week. This is like old times. This feels like the pandemic days. We're back. We're back. Do you remember? I was almost on a bike ride and then I just happened to remember. And Chris was running late because he was still at the coffee shop.
Do you remember that we actually would do this every day? We were doing this every day during the pandemic. Every single, sometimes weekends. We were on Saturdays. Emergency shows on the weekends because things were getting crazy. And I feel like we're getting back to that. Markets have pulled back the last couple of days, but everything's on fire and people are actually interested in talking about stocks again.
which is good for us, right? Did you come up with make markets green again? Was that you or did you steal that? I don't. I feel like I may have made it up. Oh, my God. I'm sure someone came up with that, but I did design a hat yesterday that I'm going to try to put into our merch store. Yeah. Can I get one of those expressed for next week before my Thanksgiving? I got to have that hat. Please. I will do my best. I don't know.
Yeah, it's the 14th. We'll see if I can get it done in time. All right. How do you get to the merch store at Dumb Money? This is the only thing we've ever sold. Occasionally we sell a hoodie or a hat. Go to dumbmoney.tv. I think that you'll be able to find the link there. I hope. We've really not paid attention to our merch store at all. I don't have any Dumb Money merch right now. I'm wearing this for the first time. We finally have cold weather. I'm putting my hoodies to use.
All right. Anyway, let's talk Bitcoin because there are three specific areas I want to cover today. One involves new laws. One is a new generation and one is a new attitude. So which of those three do you want to tackle first? I wanted before we get, by the way, like the,
The grand thesis that I think is the most understood or I should say underappreciated Bitcoin thesis that no one ever talks about for some reason. Let's save that for last. Let's go over the other stuff first, because I think the other stuff is interesting as well. Is one of the things you were going to talk about, Dave, this whole concept of a.
U.S. Treasury for Bitcoin, 5% of Bitcoin. Can we talk about that for a minute? Because that's actually a bill
It was back in July by a senator, and it was basically inspired by how the U.S. was a major gold hodler back in the day, and they're just trying to... The idea of the goal is that it would make the U.S. the largest government holder of Bitcoin, 5% of all Bitcoin, it would be a million Bitcoin. I think the most interesting aspect of that particular...
thesis or driver of Bitcoin, potential driver of Bitcoin in the next few months is one, the reality that it might actually happen, which is irrelevant. And two, which is even way more important, is the hype cycle that it might happen and people, Trump potentially speaking about it as something that will happen, whether it does or doesn't, is going to be maybe a big deal the next 90 days, right? So
Can you actually get that approved through Congress? I don't know. But does that even matter at this point? No. The only question we need to be asking right now is, will Trump or someone in his administration pump that idea at some point in the next two months prior to him taking office? I actually think the likelihood...
Of that being a conversation topic that he addresses, could you imagine if he addresses it as part of his first 100 days? Because there are people affiliated with that administration that have been quoted saying that is a first 100-day issue, which is insane. That's extraordinary if true, right?
Absolutely. It would be crazy, but not all that far-fetched. Because if you think of how gold has been the store of value and then thing that the U.S. used to have its currency based on, and now it just has a bunch of it sitting in a basement somewhere. How can the U.S. not have a strategic reserve of this asset? I think at some point it becomes a way to de-risk.
Right. Like just in case, like why not? So I want to go over the actual bill because the bill is outlined as acquiring that Bitcoin over a period of four years. And it would utilize existing like existing bonds, existing gold. OK, so it sounds like it would sell off some of our gold holdings.
to acquire that Bitcoin. And at the end of the four-year period, it has the U.S. Treasury acquiring 5% of the world's Bitcoin. Okay? That is... Yeah. It would be paid for by both the Fed and the Treasury, and then the Treasury gets the keys to the secure vaults where these Bitcoin would be locked away in their vaults.
digital ledger. Someone will definitely lose the keys on a key fob somewhere. Almost guaranteed. There's a treasure hunt in Washington, D.C. for key fobs at local bars. The funniest part of that is whenever they talk about that, they talk about it like they're actual vaults. I don't know, whenever I'm reading about the vault part of that
concept. Because people don't understand that it's basically just a password. There's a password that doesn't even need a username. And if you have the password, you have the keys. Could you imagine? Like I,
I just couldn't even... Okay, it might happen. So I think they have already $180 billion that has been seized, and that would be the starter amount that they would start with. Oh, by the way, tangent to this, has nothing to do with this, but while it's still in my head, you know how everyone keeps talking about the FTX disbursement of capital that is going to happen? I researched that yesterday for this episode because I think there's a lot of confusion around...
when that's going to happen. And it appears that is going to happen in two phases. The first phase will happen between January and February of 2025. But that's only going to be like $1.5 billion because that phase is only for people that have
$50,000 or less owed to them. But that's actually the most interesting piece of all this because people that have $50,000 or less owed to them are all getting that money, $1.5 billion, January, February, or spread out over a very short time period.
And those are the people that are likely to put that money. And I'm not sure it's going to go into Bitcoin. It probably will to some extent. But that's what I think. That's my meme coin thesis right there. Yeah. Now, the rest of the money, which is like, I don't know, five or six billion or seven. I don't know. It's like at least five billion.
That's going to be dispersed to people that are owed over $50,000 throughout the course of 2025. So it won't be as big of a shock to the system. And a lot of that money is actually held by institutions that likely already reallocated other funds
to position themselves in crypto how they want to be positioned. So I think when they receive that money, it's not necessarily going to go back into crypto because institutions don't operate like that. Degenerates, on the other hand, the second they have money wired to their account, are going to spend it in about...
Six hours. Okay. Six hours. Within six hours of the money being wired to their account, that money is gone. I would estimate that probably 50% of it goes into meme coins. Probably 25% of it goes into equities. Maybe some combination of Tesla. Yeah.
Maybe a little GameStop, some other stuff, right? And 25% of it goes into other things. And on that point, I've already received, remember when basically everything, all of the money that was like being locked away got wiped out. I had money in Gemini. I've gotten almost 100% of that money back over the past like six months. And Voyager has, I have no idea how much I had in Voyager, but I got a check for $6,000 from Voyager. Did you spend it?
What did I do with it? I think I just threw it in my bank account. I didn't immediately go buy more crypto.
All right. So I think it's really important for everyone to probably there are a few people that are associated with this Bitcoin legislation. And I did have the name of one. There's a lady who is from Wyoming who has is the lead for this bill. And I started introduced the bill back in July. Follow her on X. Maybe get alerts.
That could be annoying, but get alerts for anything that she says, because what you want is to understand the degree that the administration is actually going to back this as a policy, like maybe a first hundred day policy. It could be pretty major, guys. If we determine that this is legitimately something the administration is going to start promoting, then
I think it becomes a massive tailwind over the next three months for Bitcoin prices, honestly. That's number one. You said something else, Dave. What was another thing? Before we get into the big thing, what was the other thing you want to talk about related to Bitcoin? There were two, generational and then attitude shift. I don't know what you mean by attitude shift, so let's talk about that.
The current SEC administration has been very regulatory and trying to put all sorts of protections in place for retail investors, that sort of thing, which a lot of people in the crypto market don't like the way they've handled the crypto market. And Gary Gensler in particular is the SEC chair that Trump at that Bitcoin conference that he spoke at said he would fire on day one. Yep.
And he got such a big applause from that. He didn't even realize that was a topic that people were interested in. He just kept repeating it because he got applause. And there's speculation that Gary might resign this month. If he doesn't resign, Trump said he's going to fire him. And already we've seen some changes just because we know that there's the possibility of a new administration or a new president.
Chairman of the Robin Hood has already brought back some of the coins that they previously had delisted, like Solana. Like, huge news that just yesterday, I think, or the day before, Robin Hood, who had backed down and said, yeah, we don't want to fight the government on this. We'll just delist them. They're back. Yep. Yep. That, Jordan, we've always discussed how...
regulation has it's like one of the two big things that could be like a major roadblock and and a destroyer of anyone's crypto thesis right one of them is bitcoin not being as secure as we believe it is today in the age of ai supercomputers over the next decade and how that evolves
We don't need to necessarily need to worry about that right now. But the thing that has been top of mind that could upset the entire Bitcoin story and narrative is this regulatory environment. So now that we have the Trump administration, Jordan, do you think for the next few years that's just erased and that's going to open up a path? Because if you think about it... Specifically, I don't see any danger to...
Bitcoin specifically. Now, if people try to rein in some of the altcoins or the issuance of speculative coins, I don't know. But Jordan, how are they going to do that when Trump has his own altcoin? Good point. No, no, it's a great point. It's all a grift. Yeah, yeah. There's been so much done to legitimate Bitcoin. I don't see that turning back anytime soon.
Do you remember our too big to regulate thesis? So the thesis that we've been talking about for years is you have a window of time to regulate Bitcoin. And if Bitcoin gets beyond a certain size of acceptance amongst the American public politically, this is a political thing, right? Once you have Bitcoin regulated,
in the wallets of too many Americans, too many voting Americans, once it becomes an asset class that U.S. voting citizens have in their portfolios at scale,
it becomes too large to regulate politically. This is something that we've been talking about for a long time. Well, you realize it's like the picture words here, but it's like this enemy from within type of thing that Congress people and senators are going to have it in their own possession. So it gets to be what's right, what's wrong. Doesn't even matter what is right, what's wrong. It's just it just is. And people use it.
That's exactly correct, Jordan. And if Trump is going to stall regulatory issues for a solid four years, I believe this four-year period
gives enough of a runway, especially now that Bitcoin has been institutionalized through ETFs. We have the entire... I think as long as the government can figure out how to make sure that things are reported correctly and that they can make money off of people's coin profits, then why try to... I don't see any...
Instance where they try to shut some of this stuff down except for to try to regulate for consumer protections and to make sure that they get their percentage. So the too big to regulate trade is officially on. Four years is just too big.
many years by the time we are done with this I feel like if they were going to do something major like ban cryptocurrency in general it would have been done already there's I feel like there's it's worked with a no turning back type of place it's too ubiquitous it's in too many people's wallets and accounts
We'll think about where we are in four years, Jordan, with no regulatory environment that would be a true barrier to Bitcoin. This is a game changer. It's an absolute game changer. This is the moment that we have been talking about for years. To be able to remove that regulatory risk, we just removed 50% of the black swan risk for Bitcoin.
50% of it. We've always talked about two major risk factors, regulatory being one and security being the other. Now, security is still sitting out there. We can kick that can down the road a little bit, but...
That's a big deal. I mean, I think a big deal for it is institutions like Coinbase that offer a more legitimate type of ownership, at least in the eyes of the federal government, because there's record keeping and there's reporting back to the government on transactions and things like that. I think if the government sees things like that, then...
It's just another ticker. By the way, you know what I bought? You know what I bought yesterday? And it's down. It's down today. It was down big yesterday and it's down more today. I'm not super surprised. And I don't really care because I think I might buy more of it here. Mara. So Mara Holdings is one of the Bitcoin miners that has really, like it popped like all the other miners. It popped really big. And then it has come down.
Almost to where it was. Let me just check. It might have come off. It's almost down to where it was before this big pop on the Bitcoin run, which is astonishing. And the reason for that is because Mara came out and said that they were diversifying.
beyond crypto. But what's wild is that the diversification, they're considering themselves now a technology company, which people didn't want to hear because this last pop was a crypto pop, obviously. It was a Bitcoin pop. And right as the Bitcoin world was exploding, they're coming out and saying, no, we're more than Bitcoin. We're a technology company. We're going to diversify ourselves. But
The diversification is into data centers for AI, which is awesome. That is just as awesome as anything that's happening in crypto right now. So why would that be a negative? It's not like they're throwing their Bitcoin operations away. They're just saying that they are going to be a company that does more than that. They're going to be in two of the hottest industries in the world instead of just one.
Yeah. And they also, they've also said that in addition to their mining operations there right now, because it's going to take too long to bring new mining online right now, they're just buying Bitcoin. They're just buying it. So they're like a micro strategy in that. Funny you should mention it because you and I did not ever discuss Mara. I also bought some calls on Mara just the other day. Did you really? I'm losing money on them right now because of the, it's just going down, but
I just, I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm missing something here. I've been in and out of Mara. I've heard that part of that diversification is the happening and that it's less profitable to be a miner at this point. Okay. It is less profitable, but at these prices, 100,000 to 200,000, it changes the calculus there. Yeah, but it's got to get there. Listen, yes, but again...
The mining, it takes a long time. We're starting to get real moats in this sector of mining due to AI sucking up so much of that bandwidth. And we're having issues with energy. We're having issues with water, right? Like you need mass amounts of water. We're having issues with noise. If you research this,
basically counties around the country, nobody wants it's minors anymore anywhere. So if you are a minor and you have that infrastructure already and you understand how to expand that business creatively, there are, we're starting to see moats in that sector. I just think, I know, listen,
It's interesting that with all this great stuff going on right now, whether it's crypto or whether it's these AI data centers, you have companies like Marr that are just getting hit the last week because they made an announcement that just didn't, it wasn't exactly what people wanted. They had their earnings and they slightly missed on top and bottom line. And yeah, it's, but if,
Basically, as Bitcoin goes down, Mara goes down. And if Bitcoin turns around for all the reasons that we're talking about today, Mara is, I think, Mara is a winner. Yeah, but like rarely do you have an opportunity when you have all these tailwinds and the sector's hot. Oh my gosh, all these stocks are running. It just isn't too. And here you have one that is
basically come all the way back down over a matter of days. Because once all these things popped, it's like, oh, I missed the pop. Now that it's come back down, you have an opportunity to reassess and be like, why did it just drop?
I like it. It's been up so much, right? Things don't just go vertical forever. But Jordan, if you pull that chart, it's just not up at all. At this point, after the retraction, it's right back down to where it was. I don't trade price. People know that. So it's irrelevant for me. For me, I just feel like I don't know enough about their business with the diversification that I just don't know enough about it.
Yeah. I just thought it was interesting to discuss. By the way, this is a good point in the show to just remind, before we get into our big thesis, to remind everyone that, you know, we're not financial advisors. This is just us doing our homework, sharing our own thinking and our own trades with you guys. Trying to figure out our trades in real time. Yeah. And so by all means, please don't mimic anything that we do here. The dumb money community, you guys know that. We've been saying this every day for the past eight years on this show. But for anyone new that's following us,
Please don't mirror our trades. Just take this as idea generation, poke holes in our thesis, and speak to your financial advisor and make your own decisions. Our risk tolerance is crazy high. Okay. Tell your financial advisor you watch these three crazy dudes on YouTube and X and just wanted to get his thoughts. Yes. Jordan, I have a question for you before we get to the main thesis, because this is something we've talked about before. And I just read that Bitcoin...
has is basically finding its own path. Their correlation to gold just hit an 11 month low.
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Yeah, I don't have any input. I don't know. Things become correlated and then uncorrelated all the time in financial markets. I don't have anything smart to add. I don't know. I thought you would. I have no idea. So gold is kind of... What's interesting about gold is that a lot of times it's tied pretty close with interest rates. And you've seen a lot happening with bonds lately. You've seen a bearish
divergence in interest rates across the spread. And so I think that's had an impact with gold, things that I don't think have anything to do with cryptocurrency at all. Yeah. Oh, by the way, so my big Bitcoin trade the last few weeks, I told you this, Dave, I'm into these Bitcoin futures on Coinbase.
I still don't understand it. When it works, I think it's eight times leverage. And I started buying them right when they released them. I don't know, it was a couple months ago, a few months ago. And just my entire Coinbase account is 100% invested in Bitcoin futures and index leverage. So my account has almost doubled over the last two weeks. I suppose it can half really quick if Bitcoin comes down. So I need to be careful.
here
But I am 8x levered in Bitcoin. But how does that work if Bitcoin drops another 5%? Like what is your threshold for losing it all? So what happens is as soon as Bitcoin starts dropping, you start getting these alerts. And it brings a lot of anxiety because you're getting these alerts through email. Like every 15 minutes you get an alert going, your account is at risk of they start pulling money out of your account to meet them. It's like margin.
It's like real-time margin calls that are happening every 15 minutes. And it just, it happened to me when I first placed the trade because Bitcoin was moving down before it started going up. I was like, dude, what is going on? I just kept on getting these emails from Coinbase saying,
We're pulling money out of your account. Your account's at risk. I'm like, dude. And then Bitcoin started going. As long as you're not getting emails from Coinbase every 15 minutes, then it's a good day. Because if it goes down even a little bit, if it goes down even a little bit, you're getting margin called instantly. Too nervous to even consider that as my strategy. I love it. Your entire Coinbase account, Chris, that's insane. I love it so much because...
you can trade it 24 hours, except it closes on the weekends. They don't like, it's just a Sunday night to Friday for some odd reason. If you're trading Bitcoin, like why? I feel like the team that manages that at Coinbase, they go, they get to go home for the week. The person who sends you all those emails needs a break. No, no. I think that's what's going on. I think they just, they don't have a ship to work the weekends or is it,
I don't understand why it's closed on the weekends. If it's 24 hours. I think the futures market in general does have a little, I don't trade futures. I don't know. I feel like there is a window that there's no futures trading.
This is an interesting comment from Steven. MSTR has a very limited float and is being pushed up by Bitcoin so much that it may be put in the SPY and QQQ indexes, which will cause more forced buying. No, it won't. No, it won't. So...
Those indexes, they have nothing is automatic. Those are hand chosen. And there is, I would say, a zero percent chance that would ever get added.
It's addition to just their size. It has to do with their profitability. There's a whole formula for it to even be considered for the S&P. But Dave, even if it met every qualification for consideration, they wouldn't do it. Period. It's not happening. It's not happening. So I don't love that thesis. By the way, I do think still one of my favorite crypto trades is just owning Robinhood. And Coinbase, obviously, as well. Coinbase, but Hood...
The fact that Hood added Solana this last week again, and now this is an interesting kind of side note on the deregulatory trade, I think benefits Hood in so many ways because Vlad is an animal when it comes to like new products and wanting to be in all this stuff. And the last four years, he's had a tremendous amount of pressure on
put on him from the regulatory environment and they withdrawn and have gotten conservative at Robinhood.
In this new environment, I could see Robinhood doing all kinds of crazy stuff. Couldn't you? Just on the rumor of Gensler being out, he relaunched all these coins. I think three or four of them. I just think... And they are quick to move. When the presidential election, once you could... Which one was the first in the U.S.? I've already deleted their app. Kalshi?
Once they got it approved, he had his futures products online for you to bet on the election within days. And he had millions of people doing it. And that was a tease of the actual futures product that they're about to roll out. They're just doing so many good things at Robinhood right now. I still can't believe if you go back in time, Vlad and his co-founder at Robinhood. I don't know if you remember this story.
They were just hired coders for one of my investors in Florida that had, he had a financial company in Florida. He basically had a brokerage. And they were just like two hired crazy coders for his company. I'll never forget this. And this is an investor in Ticker Tags, Jordan, who is one of our LPs.
And I'll never forget when they were starting Robinhood, I asked him, I was like, who are these? Oh yeah, they're sharp. They're crazy, but they're sharp and crazy, but like they just move at a hundred miles an hour. And that kind of stuck in my head because we became, we were some of the earliest investors in Robinhood through Howard Linsen's on a social leverage. And here we are today. And they still have that same mindset. You put them in a deregulatory mindset.
Right. Like there. I can't even imagine the stuff they're going to be coming out with at Robin Hood the next two years. Now, they don't have to worry about getting squashed by government regulation. So I bought some regulation. And I think a lot of the a lot of the negative view of Robin Hood has subsided also.
I agree that's in the past as well. So Robinhood's become a pretty large position for me. And like I said, I added some options as well this week. I put Robinhood's money where their mouth is on the matching funds that they gave me in my IRA. I invested all of that in Robinhood. And when they matched my funds for moving my account to them, I put all that in Robinhood stock. Dave, I just remembered in 15 minutes, I have a robot meeting.
Okay. Are we going to live stream it? No. We've got to get to our big kind of the thesis we've been teasing. All right. So we've been teasing this one, and I said it's a generational change. Basically, there's going to be a transfer of wealth. We've talked about this a little bit before, but I don't think it's fully baked into the market. I don't think people understand it. I don't think people realize how just normal crypto investing is for millennials and Gen Z.
We never dug into the data. We did an episode this summer about the $85 trillion, maybe it was 80 at the time, wealth transfer that will happen over the next 20, 25 years and who the biggest beneficiaries would be of that wealth transfer. And one of the big takeaways from that episode was
is that cryptocurrency, Bitcoin specifically, would be potentially one of the largest beneficiaries of the great American wealth transfer that we expect to happen over the next couple of decades.
And the reason for that is for every one gold bug in the boomer generation, there's something like a bond bug or kids who inherit real estate that is too expensive for them to pay taxes on or too expensive to maintain. They're going to be dumping these lower performing assets for something that they understand. And that's right. Understand crypto.
So for one every old school gold bug, there's probably a thousand, maybe even 10,000 crypto bros out there in the world. And people are underappreciating that. And we want to discuss the actual data behind this super cycle of
that should result in a very slow adoption of crypto and Bitcoin specifically over the next 20 years, that you might not see it happen all at once, but slowly but surely,
I think this Bitcoin market is going to just be larger than anyone could really... People throw out ridiculous numbers when it comes to Bitcoin. But when you look at the data, let's discuss some of these numbers, Dave. So it says like 94% of cryptocurrency buyers are in the age range of 18 to 40 with Gen Z and millennials making up the majority. And we're going to discuss why this is so...
incredibly important because once you break it down, basically the share of the share of Bitcoin and crypto holders, people that actually have
76% of them are millennials. 76% and 17% are Gen Z. So that means that 90, no hold on, 93, 94%. 94% of all crypto buyers are basically in the millennial and Gen Z generation. Millennial buyers outnumber Gen X by 15X. They outnumber boomers by 63X.
It's interesting because so many of the wallets are millennial and Gen Z, but the dollar amount of those wallets is lower than Gen X because Gen X has money right now. Gen X is on that. We're Gen X and we're on that fringe where we have money and there's fewer of us investing into crypto. But when we do, we go big. Okay, Dave, this is insane. This next stat is insane.
So Gen X and boomers account for 6% of all crypto wallets, but they account for more than 50% of crypto holdings. Yeah. So you know what that means? It's like you take the 80-20 rule and you just squeeze it in both directions, right? Okay. So if... Okay. Again...
If Gen X and boomers have over 50% of the crypto, but they're basically 5% of the wallets, imagine when the 95%,
who actually have wallets get all of their money. Imagine when they get all of their money. The reason why Gen X and boomers own 50% of crypto, even though almost none of them actually own crypto, because of the few that own crypto,
They just have a lot of money to invest. So imagine when all of that money gets transferred to the generation that actually currently has 95% of the crypto wallets.
That transfer of wealth is going to shift into crypto and Bitcoin. I don't see why everyone isn't talking about this. This is in many ways the only thing that matters in crypto. This might be a hundred times more important than any other crypto thesis, than any other Bitcoin thesis that anyone has ever talked about.
Okay. Because you don't have to believe in Bitcoin as being useful. You don't have to even care about it. This is just data. This is like, how does this not unfold? How does this not happen? The stock market was benefited by retirement accounts, getting all that money going into these indexes that are buying stocks and it forces the stock market up. I think that, and in the future, who knows banks, traditionally traditional banks and who knows,
Robin Hood and Coinbase could be the institutions that you hold your retirement assets in the future. I just see there's no way that it's not going to get bigger. It's not just that it's going to get bigger. It's going to get so much bigger.
I like it. It's crazy. Based on this, you could make a case that there is. Yeah, here's what it is like. It's a 15 X. So basically just based on a demographic difference.
inheritance, the amount of capital that is going to go into Bitcoin is going to 15x just based on generational shift of wealth and existing data. That doesn't even include the fact that we are very likely, I think very likely to
To see a continuation of this younger generation being more and more educated about Bitcoin and crypto and that increasing. So just if the existing demographic, based on existing demographic data, you can make a case that it will 15x just based on a transition of wealth.
from non-Bitcoin wallets to Bitcoin wallet individuals. That's a 15x. So if that- So that puts Bitcoin at $1.3 million a coin. But it does, Dave, but it could be much higher than that, Dave, because if you have 15 times the demand-
it doesn't necessarily mean that it's just 15 times X. Like it could actually be meaningfully higher than that, which is where it gets almost stupid to try to extrapolate what this actually means. And I just think that if you just have to remember that the supply is capped, it's unlike any other currency that exists, the fiat currency that just continuously loses value. There's only a certain number that's ever going to be in the world.
I want to say MicroStrategy is going to own a lot of it. The U.S. government potentially is going to own a lot of it. And I'm going to own my little chunk that I bought years ago and it's locked away in my wallet.
I do want to say it's important because we're hyping something right now because we're excited and we just have this thesis. We've had it for years. We've been watching it and now it's all coming to light, but we don't know what we don't know. And we're talking about a cryptocurrency here. We're still talking about Bitcoin at the end of the day. There could be things we don't know what we don't know that could interfere with this thesis or just a big
Bitcoin or crypto generally. So as investors, you have to understand there are always risk factors you can't even, you're just not aware of, that no one's aware of. But I am getting higher and higher conviction on this trade where I used to think I would want maybe 6% max of my portfolio in Bitcoin and crypto.
I might, I just might, I might double that. At this point, I might think I want double digits of my portfolio in that sector. And by the way, when I say in that sector, I mean like some of that could be equities or miners or brokerages that benefit that are leaning into the space like HUD. Or CATS. Coinbase. Wait, what's that, Jordan? Or CATS.
What's cats? The crypto cats that you had. Oh, milk. You love to milk the cats. Do you know what's so funny? I can't believe you just said that because the, for the first time in months, I opened up my open sea account last night and I looked at some of those cats. I only kept a couple of them, two or three of them. And they're,
They're not worth very much anymore, but I still love them. But remember, I did sell almost all of them and I profited greatly off of that trade. But I kept the two that I love the most. And I don't care if the value of them goes down to one penny or
They are valuable to me. There's art for me. You know what it is, though? I just realized this last night. And for anyone here that was part of the crazy NFT madness that I fell into, do you remember that
feeling when, or that memory when you were a kid and they would come into class with those little scholastic booklets in like first, second grade with the smelly stickers and all that. Do you remember, did they have that when you were in first and you would buy them and then they would, you would order them off of a sheet of paper and then like a few weeks later paper that you got to write in what you wanted. And then they would bring them to class and the kids that ordered stuff would get, and I always ordered like the, the stickers over
Oh, smell. You remember those things like back in the 80s? Yeah, totally. And I still have one memory. I have a similar memory of 2020, 2021 of these NFTs. When I look at that OpenSea account and I look through all of these, like all these NFT like things that I did back then, I only kept a couple of each. And I'm so happy that I did exit almost everything.
But I love it so much. Like I just these memories come back of the pandemic where I was trading these things at two, three, four in the morning. And I was part of these group chats and I was bonding with these communities. And we were all psychotic. We all had lost our fond memories of the pandemic. That has value to me. And I know it might not have value to anyone else, but.
Money is money, but you can't take away that experience, the relationships, the memories of that time. And it's all represented in these images. And a couple of them are those cats. Cool cats is what they were called.
I want to know how my CryptoPunk is doing. I've not. So I checked on those last night. The floor on CryptoPunks is roughly $100,000, Dave. So it's not bad. I don't remember. I think I paid twice that, but the fact that I can get $100,000 for those JPEGs is amazing. What about the Bored Apes? How are they doing?
I don't think they're doing as well. I have my ape still. I love my... That ape will beat me to the day I die, Jordan. Again, it really doesn't matter if it's valued at a penny or something because that was one of the first things I bought. And I had a cheetah in my cheetah ape and I have the matching cheetah dog, okay, to go with it. So...
I love that's the only ape I have, but I kept it. I love it's mine for life. So I don't care. What does it matter to me how much it's worth? Yeah. I mean, that's any asset. That's, but from, that's all that matters.
Yeah. Any financial asset, I think what it's worth is the only thing that matters. But it's not like I'm going to buy a share of Apple and then if it drops 50%, I'm going to be like, I just love this share of Apple. If you think of it like an art project or your house, I don't think of your house as an investment. That's okay. It's both. It's both. It has monetary value. So this is more than one thing, Jordan, but this is not just a piece of art. It's a shared experience. It represents something to me. I'm happy with it.
I'm fine with it. I sold all the things from that time that represented nothing but an investment to me are gone. They're gone. They were long. I sold them really at a reasonably good time before that whole market imploded. The ones that I kept have a representation that is more than an investment to me. I don't know how we're talking about this. This is supposed to be a show about Bitcoin. That's how we're talking about it. It was supposed to be Bitcoin. And now we're in the weeds of Bitcoin.
Okay, I have a meeting about robots in five minutes that I have to get on a Zoom for humanoids. So we got to wrap this up. So in summary, we discussed on this show, I think a few meaningful things that investors should be aware of as it relates to Bitcoin. Some of those things are really misunderstood and underrated as a Bitcoin thesis.
And man, I just think that people need to wake up and stuff. And we've never been like crypto bros. That's not who we are. We've never been those people that are just shouting from the rooftops, "Buy Bitcoin."
And there's nothing wrong with those people. It's just not who we are. We have a more pragmatic view of the crypto market and Bitcoin. So I don't think there's any emotional attachment here, guys, between us and crypto or Bitcoin. We're not like crypto warriors. Like we're going to fight for it. Like we're just observers. But this is undeniable at this point.
I think as investors, pragmatic investors. Jordan, are you in yet on this? What?
This whole crypto Bitcoin thesis? Yeah, I've got some. I don't care about it, but I've got some. What is your allocation? Chris is at 6% and is talking about going as high as 12. I'm at over 20% of my portfolio. You're over 20%? Yeah, I'm not. Over 20%. I believe that strongly in it. By the way, one little shout out to our boy Leon, who's in the chat. He's our OG mod. He's our meme coin boy.
And Leon lives meme coins 24 hours a day now. That's his entire life. So he consults us on meme coins. I even threw him some money and said, Leon, I don't want to think about this stuff ever. Can you just take some money of mine and just buy and sell meme coins? I don't care if you're wrong. I'm doing the same. And by the way, this is not an endorsement of him. I'm not saying that anybody should ever give him their money to do that with. But I think he's a great guy.
I threw him some money, but I don't want to think about meme coins ever again. So can you just do what you do? And if it goes to zero, it goes to zero.
But I just know that I have a little bit of money in meme coins and that's the way I'm dealing with it. For me, yeah, that was always my, I never put money into any kind of crypto that I was not comfortable losing. It started out as a 10% move for me. It's grown because it's, the sector's grown. It's not like I keep reallocating. It just goes up faster than everything else. But I want to just say again, because Leon's probably out there trying to get other people to give him money for his meme coin trade.
I'm not endorsing him. I've just known him for a decade and I love him. He's just a personal friend. He's a good human to me. And I just know he's crazy and he's living this stuff 24 hours a day. And I don't want to be living that meme coins 24 hours a day like Leon is. So I threw him a little bit. This portfolio is 95% meme coins right now. Yeah. I threw him enough money that I don't care if it goes to zero. And that's how I think about meme coins.
Anyway, I got to go, guys. I got to hop off right this side. That's great. We are Dumb Money, and we will see you guys next week.