making art with exes with Rebecca Black
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Okay, hi guys. My name is Shannon Beveridge. I am the host of X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. How exciting. Everyone loves those things, right? I do. Okay.

I have a very special guest with me. Her name is Rebecca Black. She is a pop star and an OG YouTuber who I've known since 2017, which is crazy because I'm not sure anyone even knows we know each other, but we are in fact friends. We're besties, as you just said. Yes, we are besties.

Today we're going to talk about queer stuff, which should be exciting. And Rebecca is queer, if you didn't know. Welcome to 2023. Thanks for having me, Shan. Anytime. This is my first podcast guest, so pretty exciting stuff. It's an honor. It's an honor. I love to be a first guest. Me and Rebecca met in 2017. We were on a little tour called Love is Love, but at the time, Rebecca was straight. Straight.

I was straight. Imagine that. Yeah. That was quite the tour, quite the experience. Yeah, we were strangers. We were strangers. We all were strangers, I guess, kind of. I guess I knew Miles at the time. You lived with him. Yeah, so I did know him. Yeah, yeah, we actually knew each other quite well.

That was such an intense tour. I don't know if anyone listening went, but it was so intense. The meet and greets that we would have. Yeah. Very, very emotionally charged situations going on. Totally. I mean, it makes sense. It's like a place for queer and gay acceptance and...

Especially when we went to cities like Indianapolis. Oh my gosh. I felt like I was watching you guys, like both you and Miles. I mean, it was actually really impressive and incredible the way that you could be so personal and like take that much emotional bearing. Because it's a lot. I mean, obviously it's so important like for everyone who was there. Can we talk about how...

You were straight? Do you feel like that tour affected your sexuality in some way, shape, or form? It made me gay. Do you think? No, no. But I do think... I think becoming friends with you and also, like, the relationship that I had after that, I was finally around, like, gay people for the first time in my life. I always had, like, queer friends, but I was never surrounded, like, by a predominantly queer community. And that was life-changing. Yeah. I was like, oh...

Being in, like, a predominantly queer community surrounded by people that, like, I would soon come to understand that I am attracted to was eye-opening for sure. It wasn't that long after that tour, though, that you were, like, kind of, like, fully coming out, I feel. In my personal life. Yeah. I mean, I basically got into...

into a relationship and then and then obviously like as that kind of came to an end like I was friends with you I was friends with all of these queer people and like going it was the first time I was really introduced to like going out in a gay way gay way like going out in a queer zine and if I look at people that I have dated yeah after like knowing you what

Oh my god. It's different. I mean, I really, this was all a couple years before I came out, but I had like gay puberty that summer. Like I went to Pride for the first time. I was hooking up with girls. I was like watching from the sidelines. Like what did I do to her? Yeah. What happened? Something irreversible. Yeah. We opened the floodgates and it was like

Rebecca is queer as fuck. But then looking back, like it became so evident and there's even still moments now where I'll like think back to like a friend of mine from middle school or elementary school and be like, it was always there. It was always there. I just, I never knew. Okay. Did you ever like officially come out? Because I do feel like it's interesting that there are a lot of people that I talk to that don't know you're gay. It

It really depends on where, like, where are you living online? Yeah. Cause I did, I never really came out on my own. If it makes sense. I kind of came out on a podcast. I didn't even know it was going to happen. And I had just broken up with my ex. I forget who used a pronoun, but someone used a pronoun. And I was kind of at that point where already I was starting to feel like I need to

mention this maybe at some point because the music I was writing was about her and it was becoming like a very big part of my I don't know musical identity I was kind of in a transitional period and so I never really like made a decision I just like organically yeah and and some people consider that as like okay you came out and I knew that would happen but then I I don't know I just never I

Took it back. No, you didn't. Well, speaking of music and exes, I

I feel like we share a very unique experience in that we've worked with exes on projects, specifically music videos. Period. And what's interesting is we have, we're the opposite person in that experience. You are artist and I was director. What was your experience like with that? I'm so grateful that I,

have dated creative people and I think a big reason I am drawn to people is because I love their creative vision and they're inspiring to me and the time that I did it with my ex we were dating at the time obviously obviously it's not so obvious Rebecca because I wasn't

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It's cute. Supporting them helps support my podcast. So go to www.tomboyx.com slash Shannon for 20% off the entire website. It's obviously really difficult in a lot of ways because you become equally, I think, so attached to the thing you're creating. It doesn't become one person coming on to do my thing. Now it's like this thing that we are trying to create together. You like make a baby.

Yes. Truly. You really do. And you're in love potentially. So yes, it's a love child. You care about it so much. I think you care maybe even a little bit more because obviously this is someone that like you really want them to be happy with it and you want to make something that is like the best thing you've ever done. But then just like with a child, like you want to parent it differently. So maybe you have different creative decisions. And I'm

And I've gotten in huge fights with exes just over caring so much. Yeah. And really the entirety of my career, like I'm an independent artist too. So I'm not only the artist, but I'm like essentially producing it. Money and finances and scheduling and logistics. Like it's very unsexy. Yeah.

Yeah. But at the end of the day, like the projects that I have made with people I've dated are like my most proud and also some of the most fun. Yeah. Like I love to be directed. I have to imagine that's why in film, like actors, day directors are obviously actors, day other actors, like working on something together and creating something with someone is like, it's intimate for sure. So vulnerable, so intimate. And like, also like when you really love it, so fulfilling. Totally. Totally.

My experience is a little bit different. First of all, we were not together when I made the projects with my ex. So that was interesting. But at the same time, I was definitely probably still in love. So I feel like you can see that too, in a way. You know what I mean? The way that you create and direct is inherently vulnerable. Like, obviously...

I, my experience would be different because I like to create worlds that are like, not, they're not about like me capturing my relationship. Yeah. Whereas yours is, or at least was at the time, like, so it was like raw kind of raw. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, speaking of making art with exes, how's your experience been creating music?

and like drawing lines between what you think is like appropriate or inappropriate or especially now because you're in a relationship and then you're creating art are you writing songs like about your partner are you writing songs about exes like do you think that there's like a yeah how do you balance that it's interesting well now I'm dating someone who's in

the music industry. I'm dating someone who's a producer and an engineer. So also someone who I'm like on opposite ends with. What I love about my girlfriend, she's like explicitly said to me, like, listen, go right. Like know that you can like go right. I don't want you to think about me listening to it. I feel that's a unique experience. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Just as someone who's been close enough to the industry, I feel not all partners are that chill about it. Do you know what I mean? Someone telling you you can be filterless is different than taking a filter off. Exactly. Do you know what I mean? It's like you have the permission from her.

Yeah. But you have to give it to yourself, too. Yes. And that's much harder, I feel. She's not the first girlfriend I've written songs about, you know? Like, I've written so many songs about other exes, and not everyone takes it super well. Okay. Which is, of course, understandable. I mean, I do think that there are boundaries in not necessarily what you are allowed to share, but, like, what is, like, necessary, to be honest, and, like, what is...

unnecessary.

You're in a unique situation because your relationships have been really public. Mm-hmm. And...

Mine haven't. Well, even your relationships that are public. I think that I just set a precedent with my first relationship that made people feel just like inherently more invested in all my relationships. They're on out. You are a musician. A lot of people are following you predominantly for your music, predominantly for your personality, whatever you and your girlfriend posts. Probably as much as I kind of posted with my ex-girlfriend. We probably posted a little bit more.

But the investment that people make into the relationship is different. Yeah. Do you know? Definitely. I mean, this is the only like public relationship I've ever been in. I've never posted about exes. And that's, that's either been because I wasn't out or because I was dating someone who also had a following and they were like, let's not do this. Yeah. Or we both were like, let's not do this. Cause that's.

It's a lot. A lot. Hey, it's a lot. Everyone wants to be authentic with like the people that they're sharing with, but there, there are things that you, once they're out, you can never take back that part of your life. It's weird because our like socials and I've always felt this because I mean, I started doing this when I was so young. So I've like never really had just like an Instagram ever, you know, to myself or a Twitter. Like it's always, I've always known people were listening to some degree and

And in intertwining your relationship with your work at all is scary. So scary. Yeah. And I never want her to feel like she is either being used or being pressured to be a part of anything or anything other than just like my baby. You are my baby. Yes. Well, I think you do an amazing job of balancing that, of like showing and then also keeping things in.

Precious. I mean, it's such a weird line. There's no rule. There is no rule online. Yeah. Even as time has gone on, we don't know the long-lasting effects of...

what we share and don't share until years later. I'm still feeling it. And as far as like the artistic side of things, everyone has a right to obviously, I mean, music is like the most like honest expression of ourselves. At the same time, like when you know that

your relationship is an interesting part of yourself and your identity that people care about. Like, I do think that there, there's a difference in, in what I do versus what another artist might do, um, and why they would want to make the decisions that they make. And I don't know, I, I'd be out here questioning a lot of things, but at the end of the day, there's just,

I'm always thinking about how someone is going to receive what I do. And to act like that isn't a part of what I'm doing, whether they're

going to be affected by it publicly or not. Like you're just always thinking about someone else reading your words or listening to what you're saying. Totally. I mean, I just think artists do have at least a little responsibility to think about the aftermath of the music that they create, whether or not that means filtering yourself or just taking responsibility that like something that you may or may not say will affect

Yes. Or could hurt someone or make someone sad or like whatever it is. That's real. Things that you say in general as people, if you're saying it publicly, will affect whoever's on the receiving end of that, you know? Of course. And you have to be mindful, I feel, of that. I think for me, the thing that was so interesting about dating an artist is...

from the beginning of dating an artist was like, I know that my life is up for grabs. Like I know that my likeness is up for grabs. There will be things written about me or could be written about me. I think for me, there were things that got talked about that I thought crossed a line that I didn't necessarily sign up for. And that has been like the hardest thing to swallow because anything else, anything and everything else I was ready for

And it's like, of course, the universe throws you something. You're like, okay, I didn't actually prepare for that. Yeah. You're mixing your work and your career with your personal life. And, like, I just... There's so much risk in that. But it's impossible to avoid when your career is revolved around being honest and vulnerable about...

about your life. I mean, it's a weighted decision to make and... I really don't think it's a black and white thing. It's all fucking loaded. It's loaded. It's intense. I don't think we're gonna solve this issue today. No, but it... But we have experienced it on the opposite ends. On different sides. Yeah. Different sides. I don't think

How do you feel like you found your look and vibe and, like, everything with your artist project? Because it does feel like it's very its own world. How did you, like, land on bedazzled chainsaws and huge fake titties that you lost? Um, I know. To Australia. Oh, my God.

For the people who aren't familiar with my visuals and my music, it's become really important to me to make the things that I've always wanted to make. And I've been lucky to work with people who have brought that out of me and also are as unafraid to go there as I am. I think that it's been important to... And this is something I've learned from a lot of people I've worked with, is to have things that...

that can connect to my music that aren't just myself. They're like an actual physical world. And things like the chainsaw are like inspired by the bits of glamour that I'm inspired by the bits of camp or the bits of like absurdity or something that feels like

I feel like that's something within pop music that you have just the world as your oyster. It's like free reign. Yes. And as long as you commit to something, like anything goes. So true. And you can be as absurd as you want to be. And like, that is what like makes the best pop. The best pop is when it's fucking nuts. But in a way, does it kind of make you feel safe? Because it's not exactly Rebecca Black, but it is like...

Rebecca Black. Like, there is, like, me who, like, shows up today and talks and has my world and has my friends and everything. And the side that is Rebecca Black is, like, all of the shit that lives in my head that, like, I just don't need to express every day. Yeah. It's, like, my...

It's like, is it almost like an alter ego or do you feel like it is just you, but like what you don't talk about? It's both. I mean, I have this experience. I'm like carried out by two people when I enter my show and I have this experience. I don't know how to explain it. Where like, as soon as like I get picked up and I'm over this man's shoulder, my dancer's shoulder, um,

I can, like, unlock a side of myself that, like, just does not exist outside of it. Or same thing if I'm, like, on set for a video or planning anything, taking a photo. I don't know. It's just...

It is a little bit of an alter ego, I think, but it is really like probably the truest version of myself. Yeah. Like the most unafraid version of myself. I think you've always had that part of you that turns on. It's you, but it's hyper. It's more, more you almost. So watching you do that and then what you've done with Friday and like the performances you do with it now, it's crazy. A level of nostalgia, but also it's a brand new song, a brand new Rebecca Black.

Totally. You met me at like such a weird point in my life because as a kid, I was like so expressive and so creative and so on every stage that I could get on because performing was just like where I found like my life. Yeah. That was my source of inspiration and identity and happiness and like purpose. After my experience with Friday, all

All of that individuality that was like just starting to cultivate as a kid left my body. And I was so shut down and like had no idea who I was. I had no sense of self. That was like my biggest crux in therapy. And as a teenager and an early 20 year old, I was so reliant on what other people wanted for me because I had totally lost all trust in myself. My queerness was the first thing.

that I owned, like actually like, not like owned, but like I like actually had possession of in my life that was just mine and no one else's. And that was like the starting bread for me.

everything else that I've created in my life so beautiful it actually is though catapulted you back into into my body to you like it did now I have the control again I know who I am and it's like a different it's not something the internet told me that I am it's I'm doing it like all myself yes kind of got like the craziest form of rejection therapy anyone ever got

In the world. You could have gone two ways. It could have like completely shut you down forever or it could be like, okay, I can do anything. Definitely. And I kind of did both. I mean, it's something that I am still on a journey of now, but I definitely, I look back to who I was like six or seven years ago and I'm just so, I don't like, it feels like a different place.

Or more different version of my life than, like, my life when I was a kid. Yeah. Like, before any of it happened. And I'm just grateful that, like, I'm here now because I am so much...

happier and less bogged down by the idea of life. Yeah. I mean, fair. I'm so proud of you. The way that you've like owned things and just like blossomed and grown into the coolest person ever. And you're like a fully actualized human being. Even when I met you, I feel there was so much hesitancy and not self-assuredness that I

I feel so different today. Oh, thanks. Okay. We're going to answer questions that people sent me on Instagram. If you want to follow me on Instagram, it's at analysis living and you could ask me a question in the future. What's your Instagram? Rebecca black. Ms. Rebecca black. Follow Rebecca too. While you're at it. Thank you. The first time having sex with a girl. What on earth do I do? So true. So true. So true. No one knows. No one knows.

I mean, I'm presuming it's a girl that has... The person she's having sex with has had sex already. That's kind of what I was thinking, too. Because if you're both flying blind, it's actually, in some ways, maybe better. Way better. Oh, yeah.

I can just say as like having my first hookups with girls as a previously straight girl. And they had had. Yeah. And I'm hooking up with gay girls. Like girls who had had like long-term girlfriends. Professionally gay girls. Professionally gay. Yeah. I was like not allowed to. I was given limits. Really? Because I was not trusted because I was straight.

I hate that. And I know I'm not the only one. Yeah, that definitely happened. Um, try, what is the advice that I could give? I mean, just try to be as easy on yourself as you can. And,

And sex is the most fun and freeing, like, when you can laugh. Yeah. And when you can... I agree. I cannot... I've never had sex and not laughed at some point. Yeah. It has to... There has to be a lightness to it. Yes. And the vulnerability has to be there. And I'm hoping that whoever is having sex with someone for the first time, at least there's some trust there. Totally. Also...

It doesn't matter if you've never had sex with a girl or a guy or anything before. The first time having sex with anyone at all... Is intimidating. Is always intimidating. It doesn't matter who it is. Always. And that experience in itself, like, is not different just because you're having sex with them for the first time at all. Or is having sex with someone of that gender for the first time. But, I mean, it's never going to be perfect. It's going to be awkward. It's going to be weird. Yeah.

And there's always more times to try, hopefully. Hopefully. I think being honest that it is your first time maybe could be helpful. I don't know how vulnerable you are. I'm a very vulnerable person. Just naturally, like, if I'm sleeping with someone, I will immediately be like, I've never done this before. Oh, that's not me, unfortunately. That makes sense. To me, it's, like, the only way to be. Like, it makes me feel more confident. But I feel like some people are like, fake it till you make it.

Like, communicating in whatever way that is. Whatever makes you feel more confident, do that so that you don't feel so much pressure. Also, there's, like, not that much... It's not... I was going to say it's not that hard, but I'm like, it kind of is hard sometimes. It is hard. I mean, it's inherently uncomfortable because it's so...

Intimate and vulnerable is the definition of intimacy. So I think for me, I get this pressure of like, well, I now have to turn into like the sexiest, hottest, most confident girl this person has ever seen. Yeah. And that's not the truth. I could learn so much by like being honest. Chances are the other person is feeling just as much as you are. Yeah. I think that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves in sex to think that like the...

end goal is to finish. True. And I think going into sex for the first time, if you've never done it before, taking some of that pressure off, there's a chance you won't make someone finish. But, like, sex is not about, like, an end goal. It's, like, the whole experience is fun. It should be fun. You shouldn't be like, if I don't make you come, this isn't fun. And the first time is all about, like, getting to know someone's body and, like, understand what they like and understand...

who they are totally and the more open that you can be to each other like the better sex that you will have agreed in the future agreed but it's scary it's scary we we feel for you if you haven't had sex with a girl and you're about to but it's gonna be so fun it's gonna be worth it yeah how do you maintain a good balance of who you are in the relationship and who you are outside of it

I feel like that's something a lot of queer women struggle with sometimes because we have that friend group situation that can happen so easily where you're kind of almost always an extension of your partner. Right. Do you know what I mean? Because you like hang out with a lot of same people. Maybe it's a me thing. It definitely is a me thing, but I've definitely lost like my identity within relationships as like a person, like a solo person. Totally. I mean, it's, it's hard. I mean, when you're

We're talking so much about intimacy, but when you find a person that you really connect with, it feels almost natural that you would kind of blend into one person. You assimilate. Yeah. And it's someone that becomes your best friend and you want to spend the most amount of time within the world. And so it's obviously easier to hang out with them sometimes than your own friends. So true. Because you know this person understands you and trusts you. There's nothing quite like...

queer girl relationships, you get to bring your partner kind of everywhere. Straight couples have like girls nights and boys night. We don't have that.

Yeah, you can have a girl's night with your girlfriend. With your girlfriend. I'm like, I'm coming and so is my girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think just having boundaries on time and like the importance of having friendships outside of your partner. Yeah. Will help create your own identity and your own like things that are not y'all's thing. Going back to an ex, yay or nay? I've done it. Proceed with caution. Yeah. Know that if you were heartbroken once before, it can happen again. Okay.

It can happen again. And sometimes it's worse the second time. Sometimes it's worse the second time. In my experience, when I did it, it actually provided closure the second time. At least for me. I can only speak for me. I'm not sure it provided that much closure for me. The second, third, fourth, fifth time. Yeah. I mean, that's intense. I think it's, there's like, you can't say yay or nay because the heart wants what it wants. And like, sometimes it's just going to happen. It simply does.

Is it the best decision always? Probably not. But sometimes maybe. If you're doing it because you can't get over the person and maybe it's only been a couple months or a couple weeks or something like that, like if it's something that you're doing to escape the discomfort of getting over someone, maybe not a good idea. But... So true. If you feel like...

you've both taken some time to maybe change the things that weren't working maybe then worth discovering so often i feel like we're just trying to escape the discomfort of breakups which are painful

So good for me. Horrible. Horrible vibes. How to feel confident with someone going down on you. I put this in because I actually have had many conversations with like queer friends of mine who have like holdups on someone going down on them. Really? Have like not that much confidence I feel in their body. Yes. I feel like as women, we just feel so judged and we feel we compare ourselves to other women so much that

And I feel like some women, like for the first time hooking up with a girl, they're looking at your body and comparing their body to your body. It's like, I wish the comparison was,

of women to women could disappear within a woman loving relationship. But totally. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah. I do think there is like a difference in straight culture of like how we are supposed to take care of our bodies in order to make things easier for the other person. There is just a lot in general about sex and the experience of going down on someone or oral

that like is simply about for women, like making your body easier to experience for men, whether it's shaving, whether it's tastes and smells. And like, what's so insane is that it's about pleasuring you. I think there's so many dangerous like mechanisms and tips and things that people try to do to make themselves be more digestible. Yeah.

Pun intended. Yeah. And I'm just, I think it's so unfortunate because you should be treating your body in the way that you want to treat it. Whatever you're doing with it should hopefully be done because it makes you feel sexy and not will hopefully make another person think that you're sexy.

You have to believe that whoever you're hooking up with is like wanting to be there and present with you. Yeah. Otherwise you're just going to drive yourself crazy. Yeah. And if, if they are not like that is truly the other person's,

own problem and mistake. Not something you need to own. It's none of your business. No. Yeah. You know what's been so fun for me that has honestly really changed my relationship with, like, bodies and women's bodies and comparing myself? Um, I love the Korean spa. Yeah.

I actually have my girlfriend to thank for this one because she was the first person to bring me to one of those. And I used to be one of those people that was like, I would never go to a nude spa and just...

around with my body. Now I feel like I can't go because I'm talking about the fact that I go to great spots. But I think there is something so awesomely desensitizing around being around just like other real women's bodies. And this fear of like presenting yourself as a naked person to somebody else for the first time becomes so much easier when you realize...

Like we're all so different. Everything is so different and we're all so beautiful. Yes. There's so much comparison. There's so much comparison. Yes. And it's like, so it just, who is it serving at the end of the day? Not you. It's, it's only making yourself and your body more uncomfortable to you. And I speak as someone who like, Oh, I've had crazy relationships with my body and body dysmorphia and like all of that shit. And I,

As I've tried to release some of that, as I've gotten older, I have become happier. You deserve to enjoy yourself in every shape. Totally. It's weird for me because I'm so not attracted to myself. I am like totally completely the opposite of my type. Seeing myself naked for a long time didn't instill confidence in me. Do you know what I mean? Because I'm like, this isn't what I like to look at exactly. Yeah. I think just as I've gotten older, I'm like realizing I'm not supposed to

necessarily be attracted to my own type yeah yeah I know I've definitely had a lot of that with especially in like my queer relationships where I've really been with someone who like loves me and my body and specifically my body and it was so hard for me to believe accepting the compliment

Versus being like, oh, no. Like, that's something I've had to teach myself how to do. Because for so long, I'd be like, okay, yeah, whatever. Well, and we're not taught to. No. Like, we're not taught to learn how to accept compliments. We're learned to deflect. Yeah. And be like, okay, whatever. Like, you're lying to me. Yeah. Great question. Great question. And also, let people go down on you if you want them to. True. And be good about yourself. True. It's fun. It's fun.

And if they don't want to be there, kick them out. Yeah, for real. If your partner's more experienced in bed, how do you overcome the insecurity of not meeting their standards? Which is... Oh my gosh. I also was less experienced in my first real queer relationship. And it definitely affected me a lot. I remember... Really? Yes. I remember being like, have you done this? And she'd be like, yeah. And I'd be like, have you done this? And she'd be like, yeah. And I got to this point where I'm like, oh my gosh, what have you not done? And I hadn't done any of the stuff that I'd be like...

Have you used this kind of toy? Have you done that? And I let that get in my head so much when it could have been like such a fun experience to be like, okay, you know, things I don't know, like show me or whatever. Like what, what can we do? Yes. And I regret that so much that I let that get in my head.

I mean, it's understandable why it would get in your head as someone who's young and inexperienced. And like, I was the queen, especially when I was a teenager. I was literally like, get this virginity off my body. Like, get this. I literally just don't, I just don't want to be the most inexperienced person. But one thing I've learned, just because you've had a lot of sex doesn't mean you're good at it.

definitely had a version of that insecurity when I was like a coming into my own queerness and having sex with lesbians as a discovering girl um and looking back like I definitely had boundaries placed upon me like as a girl who was not to be trusted with someone else's vag okay

I hate that that happened to you. That I look back and I'm just like, well, that's your loss, girl. Yeah, totally. Like, I, you know. What do you think about staying friends with exes? Personally, fine. I think that it's hard.

It is hard. I think it's hard also when other partners come into the mix, whether it's your partner or your ex's partner, it's just really hard to be. I think it's hard to be extremely respectful. Totally. No matter what, especially if you've had like a long term relationship with someone. I think maybe if you like dated someone casually for a bit.

A lot easier. It's kind of a case-by-case situation. I definitely, 1,000% think that there is always a necessary period of no contact. I agree. In order to reestablish yourself and your life and untwine all of those things that made you guys...

I've tried to jump into immediately being friends with an ex after breaking up and that is just never going to work. Yeah. You know, there's just so many feelings, so many feelings and you're changing the way you're changing your boundaries with someone. And that takes time. I think in an ideal world, I would be friends with all my exes. And,

In a real world, I've not. Yeah. That's real. Yeah. That's real. Masturbation, healthy or harmful to your relationship? Healthy. Go. Get in there. Get in there. Not only

only is it important for like relationship sustainability because girl you're gonna be on everyone's on different modes different methods different zones it's just like it's just your desire is an important thing to be in touch with regardless totally also for me masturbation sometimes like feels like taking a nap like

Like, it's not like this fucking hot, amazing situation. It's honestly like self-care. It's very self-care for me, too. Doing a face mask. Like, I gotta really quickly get this done for...

I need like a boost of serotonin. Yes. And I'm moving on. Yes. And we should all be aiming to make our days better. Yeah. Okay. What's your attachment style and how has that affected your relationships? I'm avoidant. So avoidant. So avoidant.

Actually, on my first date with my girlfriend, we somehow got in, like, a really intense conversation about both being pretty avoidant. Do you feel that you both have remained avoidant, like, deeper into your relationship? Because in my experience, I'm...

I'm disorganized attachment style. So, like, sometimes I'm avoidant, sometimes I'm anxious, sometimes I'm secure. Oh, I've never heard of that. So, it's like you kind of can become all three of them. And I find that in most of my relationships, I've gone the opposite of whatever the other person is. I think that it's affected my relationships in different ways based on, like, the healthiness of the relationship. And also being at, like, a different point in my life and my journey with my ex, like...

I was avoidant and I stayed avoidant. I wasn't in the right relationship, you know, and that was the problem. So I used my attachment style as kind of a method to probably self-sabotage it.

Um, whereas now we know our misgivings and we're open about it and we actively try to work on like making our communication better because we love each other. Yeah. We want to be together. Yeah. And we've, we, we've gotten in fights, like we've gotten in fights where we've let it get the best of us, but.

Being on the end of those and now I think getting to the next level of our relationship, it's just not worth it. The fight isn't the most interesting part of our relationship. No. And I think that was maybe sabotaging me before. The most passionate.

passionate I felt about my relationship was when I would let myself be like avoidant or let myself kind of ruin it and in this one like I just don't enjoy that feeling at all like I want my girlfriend to be happy yeah because you want it to work and I want to be happy yeah the difference

So we just put in the work. It makes those conversations way easier. So much better. Yeah. Did we crush this? I hope so. I hope so too. I had fun. This was amazing. I had a great time. I feel like we're literally 2017 making a YouTube video. Do you have anything coming up that you want to tell the people about? Just stream the album. I put out my debut album this year, Let Her Burn.

And I'm working on the new one. So listen to that. Thank you for listening to this episode of X's and O's. Check out Rebecca on all her socials. Follow me on my socials. If you're watching this on YouTube, hey, hey. If you're listening on some other platform, hey. Thank you. And subscribe to X's and O's wherever you listen to your podcasts. Do it.