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#49 Why You Need to Be Easy to Do Business With

2024/9/25
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Experts of Experience

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Lauren Wood:探讨了在竞争激烈的市场中,如何通过减少客户摩擦来保持竞争优势的重要性。采访嘉宾David Avrin强调了客户驱动因素的转变,从质量和承诺转向速度和便利性,并指出了企业常犯的错误,例如假设对企业有效的方法也对客户有效。他还讨论了客户体验中摩擦的来源,包括时间浪费和缺乏解决方案的程式化同理心。 David Avrin:指出企业常犯的错误是假设对企业自身有效的方法也对客户有效。他强调客户优先考虑速度、便利性和流程的简易性。他认为质量是进入市场的门槛,而速度和便利性才是竞争优势的关键。他还讨论了客户体验中最常见的摩擦来源,例如时间浪费和缺乏解决方案的程式化同理心。他建议企业应该让客户更容易提出投诉,以便及早发现并解决问题,避免负面评价在网上扩散。他还强调了客户体验和客户服务之间的区别,前者涵盖了与品牌的所有接触点和互动,而后者仅仅关注如何善待客户。他建议企业应该利用客户体验作为竞争优势,成为客户的安全选择,提供快速、便捷和简单的服务。他还谈到了AI技术在客户体验中的作用,建议企业应该将AI用于处理简单的常见问题,以便腾出时间处理更复杂的问题。最后,他还分享了一些关于客户体验的书籍和资源,并建议企业领导者应该关注更广泛的市场趋势,并对客户期望有敏锐的洞察力,同时也要平衡技术效率和个性化的人际互动。

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Businesses often mistakenly assume their internal efficiencies translate to a positive customer experience. However, customers prioritize speed, simplicity, and convenience over other factors, especially in today's competitive market where quality is often assumed. This highlights the need for businesses to adapt to this shift by streamlining processes and reducing friction.
  • Customers prioritize speed and convenience over traditional factors like quality and commitment.
  • The most common source of friction is the perception of wasted time.
  • Businesses should focus on reducing friction and streamlining processes to enhance the customer experience.

Shownotes Transcript

在这一集中,作者大卫·阿弗林讨论了在竞争激烈的市场中,如何通过减少客户摩擦来保持领先地位的重要性。他强调了客户驱动因素从质量和承诺转向速度和便利的变化,并指出企业常犯的错误,例如假设对他们有效的做法也适用于客户。他还讨论了客户体验中的摩擦来源,包括感知的时间浪费和没有解决方案的脚本化同情。收听以了解:企业常常假设对他们有效的做法也适用于客户,但客户选择的驱动因素已经转向速度和便利。客户体验中最常见的摩擦来源是对时间浪费的感知。公司应专注于快速解决问题并提供积极的体验,以避免负面的在线评论和客户投诉。让商业变得简单并最小化客户摩擦可以成为一个竞争优势,在每个人都很优秀的市场中。企业应了解客户偏好,及时解决问题,并成为安全的选择,以利用客户体验作为竞争优势。客户体验是新的营销,组织需要关注客户的感受。领导者应对客户期望保持敏感,并在方法上具有前瞻性。客户体验与客户服务之间存在差异,客户体验涵盖与品牌的每一个接触点和互动。–你如何将所有不相关的企业数据整合到Salesforce中,以提供客户的360度视图?答案是数据云。全球已完成200多个实施,Salesforce专业服务的顶尖专家可以帮助你快速实现数据云的价值。要了解更多,请访问salesforce.com/products/data。Mission.org是一个媒体工作室,与世界级客户共同制作内容。了解更多信息,请访问mission.org。 </context> <raw_text>0 It's a great time to be a customer. It is tough to be in business because while we on one hand are trying to have some measure of predictability in our customer's journey and predictability in process and behavior, which gives us predictability in revenue, right? At the same time, we probably have more diverse issues with our customers

There are different types of users and we need to be able to deliver to those different needs. There is no one size fits all approach and we have to provide options for how people can engage with us. If they feel frustrated, then you're behind the eight ball.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Experts of Experience. I'm your host, Lauren Wood. Today, I'm very excited to have David Averin on the show. He is the president of the Customer Experience Advantage, a highly sought-after keynote speaker, and the author of seven books, with his most recent title being...

ridiculously easy to do business with. And if you're watching, you can see it right there on the screen. I just conveniently have one in my hand here. Perfect. You're a true author. And I'm so excited to dive into all things about eliminating customer friction and staying ahead in an increasingly competitive market. So, David, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I think it's such an important subject to talk about. You know, I think

For so many of us, we're business owners, entrepreneurs, and every market is a competitive marketplace. And so what I really enjoy is the opportunity to travel the country, travel around the world. I've spoken in 26 countries to help.

people in business find where that true opportunity is for competitive advantage. And today, as we will talk about, I would suggest that that opportunity is in the customer experience. Thank you so much for teeing that up because, I mean, that's really why we're here. And I'd love to kick it off by starting to talk about your book, Ridiculously Easy to Do Business With.

Because it's such an important topic in CX Today. It's something we talk about a lot on this show. How do we reduce the customer's effort, the work they need to put into actually driving the outcome that they want to drive? And so I'd love to understand from you, what do you think most businesses get wrong when it comes to being easy to do business with?

I think probably what they get wrong most often is this assumption that what works well for them works well for their customers as well. And I was talking on a different podcast and somebody asked, like, why do you think that businesses just don't get it? And I said, I think they do. I mean, I think businesses do. Everybody's working hard. Everybody's trying to, you know, I'll talk to...

business owners and others and I'll say, what's your competitive advantage? And they'll be like, we really listen to the customer. And I look at him, I said, that's adorable. You really believe that, don't you? Like, like you're the only one that listens. I think I have a lot of respect for, for people in business, but I think what they, what they get wrong is, is what they feel from the business perspective. It

What the primary drivers are. So if I ask them a question, where do you think your competitive advantage? And they say it. First of all, it's the quality, the commitment or caring trust. It's about the people. Well, here's what the research shows is customers are assuming quality. You wouldn't be in business if you weren't good. And they're prioritizing, no surprise, speed, right? Speed of access, speed of answer, speed of delivery, whatever that might be.

Simplicity of process and, of course, convenience. In many ways, a convenient is better than better. So to answer your question, I think what they get wrong is I will still hear people all the time saying, you know, at the end of the day, it's about quality. And I could not disagree more. At the beginning of the day, it's about quality. Quality is the entry fee. You better be damn good at this or the world's going to figure it out.

But at the end of the day, it's about competitive advantage. It's not what do you do well, what do you do better than others who do it well? And I think that's the disconnect is I think we drink our own Kool-Aid a little too much. We think it comes down to quality and it's about the people. It's not. It's about speed and convenience and reducing friction in the process. I always say it's about how we make people feel. People will remember how you made them feel. If we can make an easier...

make something easier for them, they will remember that ease. And I know from my own experience, building and leading customer service teams, I've been focused on quality, focused on quality, focused on quality, but we weren't getting back to our customers fast enough and really perplexed by why our CSAT scores were not increasing.

And then we just got back to them faster and everyone was happy. I agree 100%. But I would also caution for those listening, don't misinterpret when we say how they feel. This isn't touchy feeling. If they feel frustrated, then you're behind the eight ball, right? I've seen companies with phenomenal quality and they're just a pain to work with. Or we have to jump through hoops or we're on the phone screaming, real person, agent, real person. Yeah.

I think you said no. Wait, no. Totally. And that feeling is less about like we have so many colleagues and brilliant colleagues who still talk about creating a wow experience. I don't think most businesses lend themselves to wow experiences. We're not all Apple. I think the wow is wow, you got back to me very quickly. Wow, I can't believe how easy it was to resolve that issue.

Those are the those are the wows that we care about, because I think I think where we are, that's really different than even maybe five, 10 years ago is that it everybody's good. I mean, especially coming out of the pandemic, the marketplace weeded out some poor players. The other ones were either bolstered or they were acquired. We're in a marketplace, arguably for the first time. Everybody is good.

Or a good enough, right? And sometimes good enough at a better price point is a better choice. So we're really looking for where those opportunities for real differentiation. And if everybody's good and everybody cares and everybody's got great people, then

Who can get it to me faster? Yeah. Who's not making me do their work because they're so worried about their employees being frustrated that let's transfer everything to our customers and not give them a choice. So, you know, I rant and I'm an advocate for all of this, but it's an important message. Where do you think that the most common sources of friction are in the customer experience? The most common sources is the perception of time wasted. Mm-hmm.

That it should be if you see people in line and they're throwing up their arms going unbelievable. Right. You know, that's a pretty good sign that somebody's frustrated. And we've all dealt with this, especially if you've dealt with like call centers and others as well. People get very, very frustrated with scripted empathy without resolution.

Right. Oh, I understand, Mr. Everett, how frustrating that means. Like, no, no, don't read the script. So here's the issue. Here's what I mean. Yes, Mr. Everett. I'm like, no, no, don't read the script. Right. It's we're trying so hard to make sure that people feel heard. You know what they care less about? Let me read. Let me put it in a positive way. They care more about issue resolution. Yeah.

So being able to answer, don't placate us, just resolve the issue. And, and it's really, it's, I'm telling you right now, it's with, with the amount of conveniences and options we have, it's a great time to be a customer. It is tough to be in business.

It's tough because while we, on one hand, are trying to have some measure of predictability in our customers' journey and predictability in process and behavior, which gives us predictability in revenue, right? At the same time, we probably have more diverse issues with our customers.

And they and they have unique scenarios. We don't like unique scenarios. We want predictable scenarios. And so there's a disconnect because we're trying to predict it. We're trying to script it. And at the same time, people have very unique scenarios. And and that creates opportunities for those of us who who teach and share and help them through the problems.

I want to come back to something that you had said around in the beginning about how companies are often kind of focused on themselves. We're like, oh, we have so many things to work through, so many complexities on our own end. We need to do all these things. It's very easy for companies to focus on themselves versus focusing on what are the pain points of the customer? And more specifically, what is going on inside that's then leaking outside? Yeah.

Like if we have delays that are happening for the customer, it typically comes back to something that's happening internally. And I'm curious to know how you've approached that with your clients and just folks who you've connected with over the years.

There's a couple of ways of looking at this. One of them, of course, is that people are less patient with what they feel like is unreasonable delay or unreasonable complexity of process, right? We've got challenges with supply chain, but we're getting spoiled by companies who are very good at this, right? So if you aren't, when you talk about sort of how that bleeds externally, and we have kind of a pandemic of,

of teams throwing others under the bus, even when there's no reason to. And the amount of people say, I'm so sorry, shipping screwed that up. Let me take care of that. Well, what did you just do? You tried to make yourself the hero and you threw your coworker under the bus. And the reality is in most cases, a customer doesn't care whose fault it is. They just want resolution, right? We throw each other under the bus all the time. Oh, sorry. It

you know admin screwed up scheduling that let me let me take care of that or of course um we aren't empowering our people and then they just we just get transferred again and again yeah it's very difficult to be in business uh and once again i don't think that companies uh don't have an understanding or care about what their customers are going through i think they create scenarios that seem to work they're cost efficient uh and they're somewhat predictable the problem is in becoming cost efficient and we're dealing with a lot of different subjects

We're very, companies are very enamored by AI. They're very enamored with chatbots and voice assistants and

And meanwhile, people are getting very frustrated on the other end because it's harder to resolve issues. And let me delve into another area because I've been pretty vocal about this as well as I have a real heart for customer center, call center employees. What a tough job. And we know the attrition rate is horrible, upwards of 40% or more.

But part of that is the fault of the organization itself, because it's so difficult to get to a real person. We have to get through so many levels of chatbot and AI. By the time we get to an actual real person, maybe in a call center, we're already at a 12. And these four people are only dealing with furious people.

And I've had a lot of calls from some saying, help us because our customer service personnel are taking a level of abuse like they have never in the past. And it's not because people are more unreasonable.

It's just the issues are harder to resolve. And by the time we get to them, they're just getting abuse all day. So there's a lot of challenges. Companies are doing their best. But I think we're also in the middle of a bit of an experiment right now. How much are we willing to put up with? How many self-checkout times do we need to be redirected?

Because they don't have enough people working the checkout. So, I mean, I think it comes down to the opinion that a call center is a cost center and it's just something that has plagued the customer experience industry and especially customer service is that we see, okay, let's try to deflect customers.

from actually speaking to a person because it costs too much for them to speak to a person. So we're going to send them through all these loopholes in the hopes that they can solve their problem or maybe they'll just get too tired of trying to solve their problem. But that's...

But what is that then doing when the customer does get through to speak to the person that they had wanted to speak to in the first place? And I think that's where we have major dangers in AI. I mean, I'll give an example. I am a loyal customer of a specific airline and I have...

upgrade certificates because I fly with them a lot and I was trying to apply it. And the system's kind of funky. There was definitely something weird happening. I love their chat function because I can just chat with someone. I don't always want to get on the phone, but it like wasn't happening. And I was going through, I kept having to log in and it was just, I'm spending more time doing this. So simultaneously while I'm waiting on the chat line, I call and I wait on line. I

And during that hour, you're probably you're probably waiting on the chat as well. I'm on both. I'm like, I'm doing which one's the answer first. Yeah, exactly. And the chat tries to solve my problem, but it failed at solving it. It was saying things that weren't actually. Shocker.

It was addressing problems that I wasn't bringing up and it just wasn't working. I finally get someone on the phone. And I mean, obviously, I have such a high degree of empathy for the people on the phone. And I am not like most people, right? I would have been infuriated if I haven't been in that person's seat before. And I'm speaking to this woman.

wonderful woman who was so incredibly helpful. And she's like, oh my gosh, I hope you get this upgrade. It's going to be so nice for you to be able to take that long flight and business class. And I was like, thank you. And I could have pushed her further. I didn't end up getting it just for the record. I could have pushed her further, but because she was so kind and solved my problem, I

I was willing to just, okay, cool. I like, I did the bare minimum of what I needed to do. I'm not going to be a jerk about it. And I feel complete, but the experience of the dichotomy between the two was so great. Yeah. But let me ask you a question. Let me challenge you. How long did it take to get that person on the phone? An hour. An hour.

And when you first said, I loved your line when you said, and I really enjoy the chat feature, you are such a millennial. And I say that in the best way because you're a technology native. My kids, they love this. I hate it. But what we know, the term we use in the industry is the off-ramp, right? Give us an off-ramp. And one of the things I tell clients, I tell it from the stage, I tell it in my consulting, is understand that your AI, your chat feature and others, they're

They're not there. So you don't they're not to be deployed. So you don't have to talk to your customers. They're there to offload pedestrian issues. So you have time to talk to the customers who need it. And we're in a very interesting time that I know you recognize this, that we are dealing with and working with so many different generations at the same time.

More than ever in history. Somebody said the other day, I was at a conference at five generations. I was trying to do the math on that. I don't know if there's spending power of nine-year-olds, but there might be, right?

I mean, they have iPhones now, so. Right, right. But how 21-year-olds want to engage with you and how your 80-year-olds are very, very different and very difficult. So it's options, you know, it's omni-channel. Completely. It's options, options, options. And I think the options are important. There have been times where I've loved the chat. It solved exactly the problem. I didn't have to get on the phone. I would prefer it because I am a millennial. Exactly. Yeah. I hate it. Kill me. Kill me.

But I recognize I'm not naive. It's important to have that.

And we have to provide options for how people can engage with us. But it's such an important message. I mean, we get enamored with new technology. We think the bean counters love it because it's another way to reduce the FTEs in our organization. Let's put them over to chat or the worst, even for small businesses who don't have access to that. They have they have they got contact forms on their websites. And I just I just put my face in my hands.

And I'm like, you realize that your contact form is your worst employee in your entire organization. Because God forbid, I ask audiences all the time. I said, do you ever go to a website and you have a simple question for there is no there is no freaking phone number like anywhere on the website. Of course, everybody's nodding. Right. Because they have they've got their contact form. And I heard somebody say this and I'm trying to find the statistic. But the quote was that 86 percent of people will never fill out a contact form.

86%. I wouldn't ever, not a chance. I'll just call somebody else. And then, but people will say, well, people fill out my form all the time. And I'm like, you have no idea who did. The greatest source for everybody listening or watching this, the greatest source of lost revenue for your business is the customer or client that you never knew about. Something that was frustrating. There was something that caused delay and they left and they went to your website and they didn't, they clicked away. Right. You had them like right there. And then you frustrated them.

because you became difficult to work with or difficult to reach. Oh, completely. I mean, this is the thing. And even if it's for a bad reason, even if someone is reaching out to you because they had a problem,

Give them give yourself the opportunity to solve it. Exactly. Exactly. So, yes, I. Yeah. When one of the things I always say is make you need to be ridiculously easy to complain to because when issues are are delayed, when communication is delayed or restricted.

escalate quickly. Yeah. Right. And whereas, whereas 10 years ago, 20 years, we'd write a letter and now people, I mean, this righteous indignation. I mean, like the average person now they're like, they have no idea who they're dealing with. They have no idea who they're, who they're messing with. I'm like, okay, Todd, you know,

But the reality is now everybody has a bullhorn that reaches around the world. It's a huge competitive thing that most companies don't think about. My admonition be ridiculously easy to complain to. You can identify problems. You can address them before they go public.

Right. It's when people feel like they're not heard, they go online and rant. And there's some very clear things that organizations can do to head off those things. Doesn't mean the customer is always right, but you better address those things pretty quickly. You're adding fuel to the fire if you don't.

Your lack of response is literally doing more harm than good. So do yourself a favor and get ahead of it. Yeah. It's why companies are over-serving. I mean, part of it is the first part. They just want to find if there was something that didn't go well, they can address it quickly before. And so it goes back to like United Breaks Guitars, right? When something persists...

and isn't resolved, it blows up into something bigger and it didn't need to be. So when I'm traveling, because I speak for a living and I'll rent a car from Enterprise or something, when I come back, they always ask me the same question. They say, welcome back, Mr. Averin. How was the Corolla or whatever is fine things? Did you have a chance to fill it up? No, charge me. And then they ask me the same question every time. Is there anything we could have done to have made this a more outstanding experience? And you know what they're really saying? Please, God, don't go on TripAdvisor and trash us. I mean,

Let me, let me fix it now. Right? So if you get a survey and it comes back, you know, one to five stars and you do three, somebody follows up. Like, what was it? Something we can, because, because it goes online and it never goes away. It's what I tell my kids who are no longer kids, five grown and gone all in their twenties. Doesn't mean they're off the payroll, but at least they're out of the house. But I would tell them and I would tell their friends growing up and say, you know, the difference between love and the internet, I'd say the internet is forever.

And it's a horribly cynical thing. It's a terrible thing to tell your child. But the point is, this stuff doesn't go away. So we have to be, A, we have to eliminate the friction, the points of frustration. We've got to address issues early, lest they perpetuate online. When you're using Salesforce to tackle your company's most important goals, failure is not an option. At Salesforce, they get it.

They've made their most highly skilled advisors, Salesforce CTOs, available to help you with expert guidance and implementation support at every step of your journey. Learn more about Salesforce CTOs at sfdc.co slash professional services. So flipping the script a little bit,

From how do we, you know, avoid the disasters from happening? How do we get ahead of people being really upset? How can businesses leverage customer experience to actually be a competitive advantage, to actually set themselves apart in the market?

Yeah, well, I think part of it is it's recognizing what's driving not only consumer behavior and choice and preference, but also what's driving their communication. Right. We grew up in business and I'm a lot older than you, but we used to we used to call this guest relations philosophy and everybody's heard it before. And it says something along the lines of the average person with a positive experience tells two or three people, but somebody with a negative experience tells 10. We've all heard that before. None of that's true anymore. Today, we tell thousands.

Today we tell millions. So the importance of that positive experience is crucial because once again, people have a bullhorn that reaches around the world. And I think it's an important distinction between customer service and customer experience. I think we know how to be nice to people. It's certainly very important. But what they're experiencing, was it frustrating? Was it intuitive? Was it simple? And so when we talk about how do we leverage that is one –

I think that the drivers for customer choice has changed significantly. There was some study, I don't know, 40 something years ago with a very famous result that says that there's a mistaken belief that everybody's looking to make the best decision possible in purchasing or contracting or hiring. And the reality is we're looking to avoid making a bad decision, right? So how do we avoid making a bad decision? Well, we do that by we look for social proof. If we're going to a restaurant, right?

What did people think about it? If we're going to a movie, look at Rotten Tomatoes. It doesn't mean it's the final arbiter of our decision, but it's a huge influence. And so most people will look online before they make a purchase. They'll look on Amazon who's got the five-star rating or whatever that is. So the experience is real important because it creates this tension.

tangible trail of experience that we leverage. And so I think that's one way that we leverage it in a big way. And I can't remember the other one because I just rambled. All good. All good. No, but what you're saying is something that's ringing so true to me. I don't buy a single thing pretty much ever without looking at a rating first.

Because that's the world that I've grown up in. I don't go to a coffee shop without looking at the rating. I don't buy a top without looking at the rating or a review or seeing what someone else has said. Like, why would I? I don't need to. Yeah. So what the message is, be the safe choice. I've been talking about this for years. I call this the four most dangerous words in business. Four most dangerous words in business are all things being equal. All things being equal means

who's the cheapest, who's the closest, right? I guarantee you most people are not aspiring to be the low price leader in their category. And so when all things are equal,

who's got better ratings, who's got better comments. Otherwise you are going to play the price game and then it's going to be cheapest and closest. And I don't want to play that game. And so it's so important that we create that great experience, that we minimize the friction, that we address issues very, very quickly, that we walk our customer's journey with fresh eyes and ask a different question. Not just, are we really good at what we do? But

But are we, as I like to say, I think this is a real opportunity, ridiculously easy to do business with. So when did you start writing about customer experience? I'm curious. You know what? Fairly recently, I think it was about eight years ago, I had spent this is actually, I think, telling.

I'd spent most of my career in marketing and branding. And my work was with helping organizations better craft the persuasive messaging and the words that better differentiate, that more clearly defined what it is that they did and how they differentiated from others as well.

But I recognize that the world was going through a very significant change and not that your own marketing and your messaging was unimportant, but it became less important what you say about yourself than what other people were saying about us. </raw_text>

在这一集中,作者大卫·阿夫林讨论了在竞争激烈的市场中,如何通过减少客户摩擦来保持领先地位的重要性。他强调了客户驱动因素从质量和承诺转向速度和便利的变化,并指出企业常犯的错误,例如假设对他们有效的做法也适用于客户。他还讨论了客户体验中的摩擦来源,包括感知的时间浪费和没有解决方案的脚本化同情。收听以了解:企业常常假设对他们有效的做法也适用于客户,但客户选择的驱动因素已经转向速度和便利。客户体验中最常见的摩擦来源是时间浪费的感知。公司应专注于快速解决问题并提供积极的体验,以避免负面的在线评论和客户投诉。让商业变得简单并最小化客户摩擦可以成为一个竞争优势,在每个人都很优秀的市场中。企业应了解客户偏好,及时解决问题,并成为安全的选择,以利用客户体验作为竞争优势。客户体验是新的营销,组织需要关注客户的感受。领导者应对客户期望保持敏感,并在方法上具有前瞻性。客户体验与客户服务之间存在差异,客户体验涵盖与品牌的每一个接触点和互动。–你如何将所有不相关的企业数据整合到Salesforce中,以提供客户的360度视图?答案是数据云。全球已完成200多个实施,Salesforce专业服务的顶尖专家可以帮助你快速实现数据云的价值。要了解更多,请访问salesforce.com/products/data。Mission.org是一个媒体工作室,与世界级客户共同制作内容。了解更多信息,请访问mission.org。 </context> <raw_text>0 因为15年前的世界非常不同。我们没有社交媒体。我们没有社交证明。我们有邻居。我们有谁的广告词最聪明,谁的标语最有说服力,对吧?头肩说,你知道,那点小痒可能在告诉你什么。或者《华尔街日报》是美国梦的日记。它就是打动你。好吧,现在,你的问题是,我做了一个转变。

我做了一个重大的转变,不是因为我在追逐热门,而是我意识到作为一名商业顾问,我多年来与8000多位公司首席执行官进行了一对一的对话,痛点是不同的。客户决策的驱动因素是不同的。这就是导致我写书《客户为何离开以及如何让他们回来》的研究。而且现在我们已经翻译成五种语言。所以我今天的整个信息,我认为...

客户体验是新的营销。再一次,不要与客户服务混淆,但我认为,正如你所说,当每个人都很优秀时,客户的感受如何,谁更受欢迎?

为什么他们更受欢迎?并不是因为你有更优秀的人。如果我再听到一个人说,你知道,这真的与人有关。我就会想,真的,难道你的竞争对手的员工不是海鲜吗?我的意思是,你的员工并不是在一个特殊的客户服务岛上长大的,你知道,特别的忍者训练院。21岁时,他们被送入社会,你很幸运。听着,我们的员工非常重要。

但我们的竞争对手也有优秀的人。还有一种组织自饮其 Kool-Aid 的流行病。我就像,你真的很擅长你所做的事情,但你并没有创造出一种味道像巧克力的癌症治疗药物。你并没有那么优秀。现实是你的竞争对手真的很优秀。你知道,我有时会问领导者,你的优势是什么?他们总是会说,你知道,我会诚实地说,我们实际上做我们所说的事情。就这样。

就像是一个麦克风掉落的时刻。我就像,你真的相信吗?你的竞争对手一直表现不佳。上帝的绿地球上,他们是如何在所有这些情况下仍然保持营业的,而不做他们所说的事情?大家醒醒。你的竞争对手真的非常优秀。最糟糕的是,他们大多数都是非常友好的人。

我们都只是想谋生。别再认为你在一天结束时,你的质量是如此优越。质量非常重要。不要误解我。每个人都很好,每个人都在努力工作。如果他们还不是你的朋友,他们会成为你的朋友。我们必须寻找合法的方式来脱颖而出,分开。而我知道我们在这方面是一致的,就是减少过程中的摩擦。你知道,当你与其他人竞争时,如果你是一个麻烦的合作对象,

如果你很难联系,如果你反应不够迅速,你的日子就屈指可数。我们再也不会容忍这种情况。我实际上想回到你说的某件事,因为我认为这非常重要。客户体验与客户服务之间的区别。我认为很多时候,CX被视为客户服务,确实是的。我很想听听你对客户体验的定义。是的。

大多数情况下,我认为客户服务是极其重要的,但我们已经谈论了60年。我认为我们知道如何对人友好。诚然,我们必须对新员工进行灌输。我们的文化是这样的,我们的期望是这样的。但作为消费者,我们的商业运作方式,毕竟我们都是消费者,对吧?我们都是客户、客户和病人。我们期望的商业运作方式与20年前截然不同。

我们期望的参与、沟通和支付方式。你现在去一个组织,我的意思是,我一直被问这个问题。你们接受Zelle吗?你们接受Square吗?你们接受Stripe吗?你们接受PayPal吗?我的意思是,答案是肯定的。

我的天,他们想给我付款。不,请不要。你必须只按照我规定的方式与我做生意。这是多么天真。最难的部分是,真正优秀的商业人士。他们只是习惯于以他们的方式做生意,并且这有效。而现在我必须突然这样做。客户体验在今天是如此重要,因为

我们做生意的过程、机制和原因与以前截然不同,因为世界不同。因此,我们思考我们所有人的生活是如何不同的,我们如何以数字方式和其他方式进行互动和沟通。为什么我们会认为我们20年来的商业运作方式会保持不变?只需问问玩具反斗城。

或者床浴与超越。我是说,我们可以哀叹玩具反斗城的失落和怀旧。我保证没有一个人正在努力寻找玩具。我的天,玩具反斗城又消失了,床浴与超越也消失了。我该如何找到毛巾和肥皂?天哪,我想知道。不,我实际上只需在手机上按一个按钮,它就会在几个小时内送到。这是一个艰难的商业时代。

完全是。我真的认为客户体验是每一个接触点。就像你说的,支付方式是什么?你首先是如何了解他们的?每一个互动都是如此。这些互动之间是否有连续性?客户是否容易理解发生了什么?

你是什么,你是谁。易用性不仅仅是我需要点击多少个按钮,或者我在电话上等待了多久。它还包括你向我传达信息的简单程度。你是否清晰地表达,还是以一种让我难以理解的方式掩饰?有时我会收到银行寄来的信件,我坐在那里挠头,四页纸,这到底在说什么?

而且这是我们对所有这些接触点的感知。如果你比预期晚了一周收到某样东西,而且质量也不是你想象的那样,那就是客户体验。没错。我认为最好的例子是客户体验与客户服务之间的区别,曾经有一段时间,在你之前,我们会拿到工资支票,站在银行排队,填写存款单。我们试图赶到那里,因为他们周末不营业,我们没有ATM。

我们到柜台时,他们会问,所以你周末有什么计划?对吧。我已经很久没去过银行了。我是说,我会为客户发言。正如我所说,我在世界各地演讲,他们会给我一张漂亮的支票,我坐在Uber的后座上签字,然后拍张照片存入。

没有服务。你我都知道这是一个体验,对吧?那种体验是数字化的。简单吗?复杂吗?如果你问银行业的人,他们会说他们的竞争优势是什么,他们总是会说这个。是关系。我们知道客户的名字。今天,他们正在拼命寻找,因为除了私人银行,他们再也见不到客户了。

所以他们真的在重新定义他们的优势是什么。他们都处于高度监管的环境中。他们的政策基本上是相同的。他们的应用程序往往也是相同的。所以我现在不知道答案是什么,但他们问得很多,因为他们传统上认为的优势是

是不同的,因为我们参与的方式,我们与他们做生意的体验与半代人之前截然不同。谈到领导力,我知道你刚才说你与800位首席执行官一对一交谈过。8000位。8000位。我有。你会说领导者需要具备哪些品质,不仅是首席执行官...

而是公司内部的领导者需要具备哪些品质,以真正激励以客户为中心的文化,并确保整体体验得到考虑。哇,这是个好问题。这是我们长期以来讨论的许多基本原则,但他们还必须具备...

对行业之外的趋势有真正的敏感度。这是一个挑战,因为我们历史上必须在行业内成为最优秀的之一,以进入上层阶级或证明高价的合理性。可以说,这是第一次,我们正在与与我们所做的事情毫无关系的行业竞争。

现在,你知道,你之前提到的只是能够进行对话,找出事情的进展,供应链中的情况,我们是否有可见性,以及其他行业缺失的东西?

提供的,可能是我们没有的。因此,对于领导者来说,不仅要具备同理心和我们知道的重要素质,他们还必须非常清楚更广泛市场上发生的事情。客户的期望是什么?然后什么是合理的?并不意味着每个人都必须是亚马逊。

我们行业的合理性是什么?但同时也要有一点水晶球的能力,因为我们过去可以展望五年、十年。我们认为我们的行业将会是什么样子?现在我们展望18个月、24个月,因为变化发生得太快。我们不想处于一个拼命追赶的境地。

因此,保持在前沿是一个真正的挑战。但我对此感到非常乐观。我的意思是,我是这一切的愉快倡导者和战士,因为我认为我们有巨大的机会来为我们的业务和参与未来做好准备。有时我希望在嘉宾说出我深深认同的观点时响起铃声。是的。

你在整个时间里都在敲响它。这对观众来说会变得非常烦人。确实如此。我们非常一致。所以这将是很多铃声。智慧的法则今天正在流动。完全是。但我认为你所说的非常重要的是,我们的竞争对手不仅仅是我们行业的竞争对手。我们的竞争对手是那些拥有客户眼睛和耳朵的人。我认为优步和亚马逊完全改变了。

消费者对速度和便利的期望。而许多公司正在这样做。现在在人工智能时代,我认为这一点正在迅速变化,新的创新不断出现,客户的消费期望每天都在提升。当我与不同品牌互动时,我会想,哦,那是

那很好。为什么我必须经常接触的另一个品牌或公司不这样做?因此,我们必须在各处寻找灵感。我认为我个人非常喜欢的最佳实践是

拨打客户服务电话,进入聊天机器人队列,实际上与不同品牌一起经历体验,以查看人们在做什么是有效的,以及他们在做什么是我们需要避免的?是的,超级聪明。我认为我们必须非常关注正在发生的事情。现在,另一个事情是对于那些有创业精神的人,换句话说,不要被这个麻痹。你不必做所有事情,但你必须做一些事情,并且如果你能特别识别出发生了什么变化

与团队中的千禧一代交谈。确保在进行战略规划时,不仅仅是一个满是老白人的房间。相信我。我们需要这种观点、经验和视角的多样性。我的团队中有一位年轻女性,26岁,聪明绝顶。但天哪,她给了我一个我在写这本书时绝对不会有的视角。

我把章节给她看,因为她给了我,这是千禧一代的视角。我谈论它,因为我在发泄。有些事情我讨厌。她说,我喜欢那个。对吧。我觉得这很重要。我的妻子在这方面也是一个很好的平衡。获得这种观点和经验的多样性。仅仅因为你有这种感觉,仅仅因为你喜欢它或对它感到沮丧,并不意味着你的客户也会这样。这不是一个依赖直觉的时刻,

信任市场。信任数据,因为世界在变化。但再一次,你不必做所有事情。这可能会让人感到不知所措,尤其是你知道,即使看着市场营销。你会想,现在有推特,现在有X,这是。我要做Snapchat吗?我在哪里找到你的市场?你需要在那里。嗯哼。

在这一点上,我知道你在世界各地演讲。是的。你一直在旅行。我很好奇,客户体验的期望在不同地区是否会有所不同?你发现这很不同吗?在某些方面,但实际上并没有。但这是个好问题,因为世界在变化。

世界是平的。每个人都在关注周围的事物和随处可得的东西。你知道,亚马逊在这里,阿里巴巴在世界的另一边。在善良方面存在文化差异,你知道,我们在美国可能会遇到的一些粗鲁的事情,尽管大多数人都很好,但在新加坡是找不到的。对吧。那里有一种美好的文化。我认为真正的区别可能在于速度的期望。

某些市场在物流方面并不成熟,无法做到那种事情。我住在科罗拉多州丹佛南部。我认为我们有三个亚马逊仓库。这太荒谬了。我们订购的80%的东西,都是当天送达。当天送达。我记得如果你想给生病的朋友送花,你必须在上午10点之前下单,如果你想当天送达。

现在,无论何时你都会在30分钟内收到,有些东西我们在晚上八点订购,我们仍然能在当天收到。这太荒谬了。对吧。其他人可能会说,哦,你被宠坏了。不,我们只是生活在这个时代。看看我们在做什么。对吧。我们在国家的不同地方。我在世界各地有很多客户,我们正在进行实时面对面的交流。对于我父母那一代人来说,这简直是魔法,真是魔法。

所以,再次强调,国际间实时进行这些对话的机会是巨大的,但即使在极其简单的方面,比如与我在孟买、约翰内斯堡和新加坡的客户进行对话时,当他们想要进行对话时,我昨天就有一个。我是那个在凌晨两点通话的人。我是那个在凌晨四点通话的人,每次都是,即使他们坚持说

我想忠于品牌。这是我相对于其他同样做我所做事情的人的竞争优势。但我认为理解这些文化差异是重要的。但我认为我们都开始期待全新一代的便利。是的,完全是。我认为随着互联网将我们越来越紧密地联系在一起,这些差异...我记得...

15年前在大学上关于文化差异的课程,如何在不同市场与人交谈时应该有所不同。我实际上去过很多这些市场,并在很多这些市场生活过。其实并没有那么不同。真的没有。非常好的观察。确实如此。确实如此。但现在每个人,我的意思是,作为美国人我们非常被宠坏。当我环游世界时,我将在11月到达我的第28个国家。

99%的事情我都是用英语进行的,对吧?国际商业语言,非常幸运。但由于媒体的获取,每个人都意识到我们在做什么。我们也可以意识到其他人,但这为我们在全球范围内开展工作打开了巨大的机会。我很幸运能够在全球范围内工作。我想快速与你谈谈人工智能以及

技术效率与个性化人际互动之间的平衡。我们之前稍微提到过,但我很好奇你的想法,因为我看到的不同方法是疯狂的,没有正确的答案。是的,我确实认为有一些事情是不能做的,但我很想听听你的想法。是的,我认为我们正处于一个伟大的实验中,一方面是它的有效性如何

另一方面是我们愿意忍受多少,直到出现收益递减法则,对吧?裁减人员并转向人工智能。在某个时刻,人们会感到厌倦,然后转向其他东西。

然而,明年会更好。后年会更好。但杰伊·贝尔,一位同事,刚刚发布了一项关于人工智能的伟大研究,显示人们通常对通过他们进行操作并不满意。但我们并不天真。我们知道它会变得更好。所以陪审团还在审议,我们来自不同的世代。因此,再次强调我之前所说的

部署人工智能以更好地预测和处理。我的意思是,现在它只是一种被美化的常见问题解答。人工智能并不是为了让你不必与客户交谈。因此,你可以与真正需要你的人交谈,而你有足够的带宽。我们无法增加人员以在60秒内处理每个问题并回答每个电话,对吧?这太天真了。

但必须有一个更好的点,而不是你耐心地等待一个小时的电话后,经过一次令人沮丧的聊天体验。那是不可接受的。你在耐心和理解方面是卓越的。大多数人不是。因此,当我们考虑客户获取或客户转化的成本时,从当前供应商那里失去他们

在接触点,因为他们感到沮丧,无法解决问题,在我看来是不可原谅的。我们已经拥有他们。他们已经是客户,或者他们已经处于边缘状态。

而我们在客户获取上花费了如此多的钱,然后我们将保留工作委托给呼叫中心或人工智能或离岸BPO。我认为我比大型公司的后台人员更聪明吗?不,但我认为他们错过了一些东西。我认为他们错过了一个机会,因为财务人员有点过于主导。我的意思是,CX必须在做出这些决策时在场。嗯哼。

需要有一个CX。你说得对。多么好的概念。多么好的概念。实际上,在我们进行这个节目时,这真的很有趣,因为我有机会与首席客户官和客户体验的副总裁或高级副总裁交谈,他们不仅仅是在管理呼叫中心。他们正在战略性地思考公司的客户体验,几乎像是一个专注于CX的内部顾问。

是的。为什么每个人都没有这个?我觉得这真的是一个必不可少的角色。我看到。吉恩·布利斯在这方面有一些很好的内容。那个人在内部是谁?我认为组织明白这一点。我认为太多人仍然将CX与客户服务混淆。在许多情况下,组织中的客户服务不过是投诉部门。

我们知道这远比这重要得多,远比这复杂得多。百分之百。最后几个问题。一个,我想知道,你是否有任何关于这个主题的书籍或资源推荐给任何想要进一步了解的人?当然,你可以自由地宣传你自己的出版物。有一本杰出的新书。

叫《与客户做生意极其简单》。这是一本实用指南,教你如何在客户想要的时间和方式上满足他们的需求,作者是大卫·阿夫林。但我告诉你,还有其他一些书。当然,《荒谬的款待》是经典。我刚刚读完罗杰·杜利的书《摩擦》。

那本书自从我在我的播客上请他来之后,我们成为了朋友。我告诉他,在某些方面,我现在真的很讨厌他,因为我注意到世界上更多的摩擦和挫折点,而我之前并没有注意到。我的妻子已经说我有点脾气暴躁,但这是一本精彩的书。它叫《摩擦》,作者是罗杰·杜利。它真的让你重新审视世界,尤其是当有延迟或挫折点时,或者

过于复杂的过程是完全不必要的,

而在许多情况下,它们只是因为这样一直以来的方式。它们尚未被打破,但它们正处于被打破的边缘。所以,是的,我的意思是,有很多书。当然,任何杰伊·贝尔或谢普·海肯的书籍都很棒。他们最近也做了一些非常好的研究。我们都是竞争对手,但我们是同事,也是好朋友。我对我同事的工作非常尊重。我们都是战士,对吧?

为了这个事业而努力。我喜欢它。减少摩擦,少一点麻烦。而且,我认为对于那些认真对待它的人来说,未来真的很光明,做生意的时机正好。对于所有听众来说,我们在这里为你们努力,让你们的生活更轻松。

把我们带进来。是的,我们几个月前请谢普·海肯上过节目。所以回去听那一集,所有听众,太棒了。太棒了。太棒了。

所以我有两个最后的问题要问你。我们问所有嘉宾这个问题,第一个是我想听听你最近与某个品牌或公司的经历,给你留下了深刻印象。是什么?哦,我的天。很难不说显而易见的事情。事情是这样的。我将给你一个显而易见的例子,但对我来说非常合适和个人化。我旅行频繁,我在全国各地和世界各地。

我不能不,双重否定,我不能不准时到达我需要去的地方。因此,预测性,我们之前谈到的作为安全选择是绝对至关重要的。我已经到了一个地步,我曾经喜欢开车,所以我总是租车,因为我喜欢新城市和其他一切。我不再这样做了。我没有时间去坐火车。我是一个优步狂热者。

因为对我来说,吸引人的部分是他们的可预测性,他们的可见性,我选择什么车,什么价格,什么时间。我可以看到他们在哪里。我可以看到他们的转弯。那里有如此高的可靠性和可预测性。

这帮助我并让我专注于我需要做的事情。另一个人是Tripit这个应用程序,因为一切都在一个地方,这简直是我的整个生活,但,是的,

所以可预测性和可靠性绝对至关重要,因为我可能有5000人在等我,我不能冒险。所以这是一个显而易见的选择,但对我来说也是一个非常重要的选择。是的,我完全同意你。然后我的第二个问题是,每个客户体验领导者应该听到的一条建议是什么?对你有效的东西,以及历史上对你有效的东西,不一定对你的客户更可取。

我不会说对你有效的东西对他们无效。我认为对他们有效的东西对公司有效。他们对此有经验。但今天我们处于一个不同的地方。它不再是关于能力。

而是更关乎可取性。不是,它是否有效?而是它是否比他们拥有的其他选择更可取?客户并不是在真空中做出决定。他们并不是在决定是否与你合作。他们有一份选择菜单,而你的能力,你所说的事情,你的员工的表现。

并不能让你在其他竞争对手中更具可取性。因此,要非常关注所有竞争对手的接触点。购物时要非常谨慎。因此,不仅仅是要有能力。非常重要。质量。非常重要。

今天,关键在于可取性。如此好的建议。非常感谢你,大卫,来到节目中。你可以敲响铃声。敲响铃声,敲响铃声。非常感谢你来到节目中。很高兴能与你交谈。我绝对喜欢这次对话,我相信我们很快会再联系。我也是。让我们每六个月检查一次。太好了。非常感谢。听起来不错。太棒了。你是一位有远见的商业领袖。

你已经看到了未来,作为一个在Salesforce的代理力量中蓬勃发展的人工智能企业。未来是光明的。到达那里?

这有点模糊。别担心。Salesforce的首席技术官会与你并肩合作,将你的代理力量愿景变为现实。我们在谈论来自最佳中的最佳的专家指导和实施支持。要了解有关Salesforce首席技术官的更多信息,请访问sfdc.co/professional services。