Matthew J. Wolak
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First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. When I was seven years old, I remember looking up at my dad longing to connect with him, but not feeling like my dad knew how to connect. And now here he was, I'm getting to know the actual person of my dad.

Welcome to another edition of First Person. I'm Wayne Shepherd, and our guest this week is Matthew Wolak, who describes his experience overcoming the wounds inflicted by his poor relationship with his father and fighting healing from those wounds. I hope you'll stay with us now for that conversation. Today's program is the latest in a long series of interviews aimed at demonstrating through the lives of our guests that God powerfully moves in our lives when we commit our way to Him.

We've heard that over and over through hundreds of interviews. And if you'd like to review any of those conversations, they are available at FirstPersonInterview.com. Also connect with us via social media by going to Facebook.com slash FirstPersonInterview.

Matthew Wolak has written a book titled Loving Your Father, even though he, it's a guide for men and it's a story of Matthew's own healing of his father wounds. But before those difficulties could be overcome, Matthew himself needed to submit to the Lord and that's where his story begins. We spoke online. Interestingly enough, the Lord would use three women in a row to get my attention. And what I'll share a little bit down the road is that's what he was going to draw me back from.

And I was headed out to California and I packed up everything I owned, ready to go. I wasn't, I planned on no return back to my hometown. And I, I would work out typically at the YMCA and there was a lady who would check in at the, at the desk. And she handed me this book of prayers, knowing that I wasn't, I wasn't headed back anytime soon. And,

I took it mostly because I knew her and we had a good rapport from seeing her repeatedly at the door, but not anything beyond that. And what was interesting is as I was going to California, I was driving and I ended up in a place where it was the middle of the night and I was in Colorado.

And a huge snowstorm had come through enough to cake all the signs where you couldn't see your exit signs or where you were or where you were going. And I started to freak out because there was really no buildings in sight either. You know, maybe a couple miles off or no, I can't even say a couple, several miles off the freeway. That's a snowstorm. Yeah, serious one.

And I grabbed the book, and as crazy as this sounds, because I didn't get into an accident, I set it on the steering wheel and started to read it as I drove. Oh, goodness. Not recommended, but... Definitely not recommended. And I'd look up and down, and it actually gave me peace enough to stop concerning myself with the fact that I'd

It was in the middle of this place that was full of snow and just kept moving on to California. And when I got there, I ended up on the couch of a couple of friends because I hadn't planned on a place that I'd rent. I figured I'd figure it all out once I got out there. And after a couple of weeks, they said, you got to move on, buddy. Find your own place. Yeah. Something about fish and guests after three days, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm driving around, you know, because I have to find a place immediately. And I'm looking in everywhere and under every rock and around every tree and ended up at this church's post-it board. And I look at the post-it board and I go into the office and I say, hey, do you happen to have any resources for finding a place to live? And she mentioned the postcard out on Facebook.

the board and I went out there and this is a little over 20 years ago. I don't, I can't even imagine what the rent is now, but the little postcard said for a room in a house, uh,

Not an apartment, not the house, just a room was $750 a month and $750 security deposit was needed up front. And I had gone out to California with about $750 in my pocket. So I'm going, oh, man, I'm not going to be able to pull this off. But I went back into the office and mentioned it. And she said, you know, why don't you why don't you try it out?

And it was almost as if she knew it was going to work out. It was this very strange feeling. But I went and I interviewed with the lady who owned the home. And what was wild is she said, I told her my story. I told her I needed a place to live. I told her that I had come out to California with all I owned. And she said, you know, I think God sends people into our lives for a reason. I came out here to California with everything that I owned, but I had two friends with me.

And you're here all by yourself. And I want to help you out. She reduced the rent a couple hundred bucks. And she essentially helped or let me work off the security deposit by washing her dogs and doing stuff around the house, which I was totally grateful for. And she ended up taking me to church once. I was certainly reluctant to do that. But went along with it. She was a kind lady. I thought I'd check it out. And she actually gave me...

She gave me this opportunity at one time to go out to this church where a band was playing. And the band was certainly not Christian, but for whatever reason, they were allowing them to play at this church. And I remember walking out into the parking lot and seeing this lit up cross at the top of the mountain peak next to the church. And that also gave me peace.

And, you know, I knew God, who God was from my Lutheran grade school upbringing, but that's about it. And I, as God continued to venture me along, I ended up returning to Milwaukee and they were shooting a movie at Miller Park, which used to be County Stadium, now it's American Family. I don't know what they call it, if it's still American Family Stadium for the Milwaukee Brewers where they play. Yeah.

And there's a break in shooting and there's this beautiful woman there. And I started to hit on her and everything I asked her about having a boyfriend or living with somebody at home, every answer was responded with Jesus. I'd say, no, no, no, no. I mean, a real person. And she'd say, yeah, Jesus. And it was wild because

She did not relent. And then there was this break in shooting and I was drawn to her and I wanted to know more about what she was talking about. I can't remember exactly what she shared about God, but I said, hey, I moved out to California. Didn't work out. I just got my degree in business. Don't want to use it. I feel like I'm at this crossroads.

And she said, maybe God's trying to talk to you. And what I did is I started to explore churches. And the first one I ended up at was Stuart Briscoe's church, Elmbrook, which is just in a suburb west of Milwaukee. And he was speaking on sex before marriage that day.

And he was telling us that you can't do that. And, you know, for a guy who enjoyed that, I'm going, nah, where does it say that? I'm flipping through the Bible in a pew, you know, thinking I'm going to find it in thousands of pages just by looking it up myself. Of course, to no avail. My aunt got wind of that, who's a devout Christian. Her and her husband started to bring me to their church. And then I continued to attend Elmbrook. They had a 20-something ministry for young adults that meant

And I continue to go there as well. And I go to all the parties and thankfully they were, they were tame. People weren't, you know, getting drunk like a typical young person's party that I was used to and grateful for that. But for about a year, I ventured through those, those groups and, and found, um,

I ended up at this place saying to myself, man, this Christian life is boring. I can't sleep with women before I'm married, and I can't get drunk. And I went out, and I had a one-night stand. And what was wild is the next day, I had conviction that came over me that what I had done was wrong, and I would not leave. It wasn't this fleeting conscience thing. It just sat with me. Yeah, the Holy Spirit. Agreed. And it was heavy.

And I remember, I can't remember if it lasted a couple days, but I ended up in this place where I started to feel guilty for almost like everything I had ever done in life was right there before my eyes. I think that's when I knew I needed a Savior and I committed my life to Jesus. And the awesome thing about that is that 10 to 15 years later, Stuart was speaking at

No Regrets, which is a huge men's conference that hosts, Elmbrook hosts once a year. And I went up to Stuart after his talk and I shared the story that I shared with you. And he said, you know why that happened, right? And I didn't know the answer. And he said, it was because God was trying to protect you. He laid that conviction on you to protect you. And, you know, I understand it now in that I was hurting those young ladies that I was with, but I was also hurting myself.

For him to put, to identify that for me was extremely helpful and just made me feel blessed that what God had done in my life. That's amazing. And to tie the trip to California, the witness of the people there, and then to come back and have the witness continue here. It was, God was pursuing you even though you didn't know it, right? Oh man, hard. I'm glad for it.

And we'll continue to get to know Matthew Wolak and hear about how God healed him and his father, coming up next.

Hi, I'm Ed Cannon. And as you know, situations around the world are changing quickly. Stay current with FEBC's ministry and get a deeper understanding of people who need to find hope. Hear how you can feel the pulse of God's Spirit moving through the hearts of believers dedicated to reaching the lost. Be sure you join me for the podcast until all have heard. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.

Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. My guest is Matthew Olak, and we've heard his testimony of coming to faith in Christ. How long ago did that happen, Matthew? That's about...

A little over 22 years now. Is that right? So since that time, you've been a faithful follower of Christ. But talk briefly about your relationship with your father. Is that kind of what led you to leave home in the first place and take that first trip you spoke of? Oh, man. I was an excited young musician, and that's what got me to head out to California. I really wanted to chase labels down and see if I could blow up in music. One of those dreams that you have when you're in the world, but...

It certainly wasn't my dad's fault, but what was interesting about it is that I moved in with my dad just prior to leaving, and that was after college. I didn't really know my dad at all, and I got to tell you, Wayne, at that time, I was so self-centered.

All I do is care about myself. My dad would later tell me you were really hard to live with. So you grew up not living and not being with your father then, you said? Right. My parents were divorced when I was about seven years old. My mom had the majority of custody. So we saw my dad every other day and every other weekend. Were you bitter over the separation, the divorce and all that?

Well, I would say I thought that that was the reason why I was an angry kid was the divorce. I always thought that's what impacted me when I looked back. But what I have since learned in my later age, I'm 46 now.

And only very recently in the last year came to realize that it was more about the fact that I didn't have a relationship with my dad. And what was interesting is that as hard as I was to live with without knowing the Lord, when I did come to know the Lord.

It knit my father and I's relationship together because he was a devout believer. Okay. And the wild part about that was he was a very quiet Christian. And I don't remember a single time with him drawing my brother and I together to go over scripture or to pray or to explain his faith. We attended church a few times with him, but he didn't really explain that either. Mm-hmm.

It was just amazing. My dad was a pretty relaxed person altogether of calm demeanor. And when that happened and that changed, he lit up. He became a different person. And God just started to work in between our relationship when it came to Jesus. And we had this commonality that drove our discussions and our conversations and conversations.

ultimately our reconciliation. Yeah. So there was a very difficult period, I understand, that you had to live with your dad there. Then were the two of you kind of butting heads, huh? Yeah. It was a very separate, you'd be on your separate side of the house, I'll be on my separate side of the house. Not much interaction at all. Yeah. Yeah. But then something changed. What changed? What changed is we had something to talk about.

I think that's really what drove normal conversation between the two of us. You mean your faith in Christ is what you had to talk about? Yes. I see. So you'd become a Christian. I did. All right. And when I became a Christian, I was all in, man. I wasn't figuring it out over a couple of years. I said, whatever the Bible says, I'm doing that. And forget the rest. That's great.

And my dad and I started to take these walks together and we had this two mile route we would get on and we totally enjoyed just talking as we went. And it wasn't even a beautiful path that had half nature, half city, but we would go do a lap often. And then, you know, if we were really enjoying it, we'd have those times where we do two laps and every once in a while we'd do three going into the dark. Yeah.

It must have been quite a change for you and for him, right? Growing up, there wasn't much of a relationship at all. I came to learn the two things that disabled our relationship growing up. And one of those was there was no connection, no connecting. And what was wild is when I was seven years old, I feel like the Lord had advanced me in years. I can remember looking up at my dad longing to connect with him. Hmm.

but not feeling like my dad knew how to connect. And that's why it was revolutionary because once I saw him open up and start to show and share who he was, that wasn't a side I got to see. And now here he was. I'm getting to know the actual person of my dad. Sounds like there was some change on both sides of this equation, you and your dad, right? Yes. And I was really thankful too because I think the divorce took a lot out of him.

I don't think he was ready for that. I don't think he saw that coming. You know, I would say that my dad gave up on life at that point. And perhaps that's why he became so quiet in my childhood years, because he just didn't have anything left or wasn't willing to give anymore. I mean, he was a huge hunter, loved to hunt. And even as kids, I can remember being at ranges watching him shoot his bow, but he never hunted again.

After the divorce. And fortunately enough. Him and I got to hunt. My first time hunting. With him. And his first time back to hunting. Yeah.

Wonderful. Well, I know that you have a heart now for helping men in particular connect with their dads when there's a troubled past there. You've written this book called Loving Your Father Even Though He, and it's a guide for men. Talk about your main message, if you would, for a few moments, Matthew, and then I have some other questions for you. Absolutely. The main message is a message of hope.

In community with other men, I've always noticed it's hard for them to communicate. It's not always an easy thing to do unless people coax answers out of it, whether I've been in a small group setting or a large group setting. And when I came to know that this particular area was very difficult for men to deal with, I wanted them to know it was possible to have reconciliation with their dads if their dads were still around. Mm-hmm.

And that was the main message was hope. I thought, you know, guys will be able to relate to me because I didn't have a great relationship with my dad growing up for my own reason. And guys have a myriad of reasons for themselves. But if there's this story of hope, then maybe they'll venture after it.

Maybe they'll try to figure it out and go after their dads and have a conversation with their dad and try to rebuild their relationships. So you have an opportunity to speak on this topic about overcoming father wounds. Is your dad still with us? My dad has passed. He passed in 2010. Okay. All right. But you have to be so extremely grateful that you got this solved when he was alive, huh? Amen to that. I tell people,

I got six years with him before he passed away from cancer. And those six years were treasured. And the bond that God created is unmatched in any other relationship I've ever had. And we knew and understood each other to value each other in such a way that my dad loved me in all the ways I needed and made me feel safe.

And it enabled us to get extremely close. And I just, I just thank the Lord that he gave us those years and even more that he, he had an order to things. He reconciled the relationship, but what was wild is as I was researching things for the book, other resources that were out there, one of the things that brought me healing was that I,

I realized I hadn't forgiven my dad yet. And as I wrote the book and would revise the book and redraft the book, I would go through the same emotions over and over from the stories I'd share. And I think it was about the sixth cycle around where God just put the scripture on my heart. Your sins are red like scarlet. He washed them white as snow. And I go, oh man, I got to forgive my dad. And because he put that scripture on,

He laid that scripture on me. It was really easy to do. I just saw it right away and I go, this is the resolution to be able to heal and forgive him fully. Now I can say there's no more wound. Sounds like writing the book was spiritual therapy for you. Yeah, it was. Do you know the author Patrick Morley, Man in the Mirror? Yeah. He wrote a book called From Broken Boy to Mended Man, which I highly recommend for anyone

anyone to read who has a wound with mom or dad or both. He really identifies all these different things that tell you what your wound was. Mine was denial of the fact that my dad and I's relationship impacted me. Because I could start to deal with that and process through that and overcome the denial and admit how I was impacted,

then that healing that came and that understanding of forgiveness propelled me forward to a place I didn't expect. I have just a few seconds left, Matthew, but what is your advice for the dad whose son is no longer with us or the dad is gone? How do you overcome these father wounds in that case? What is your advice? There's a process that I write about in the book. It's literally a step-by-step guide on how to work through

the acknowledgement of the wound and seeing that and allowing yourself to be vulnerable enough to experience that and call it out for yourself to know what that was. And once you understand that, you have this nugget that you can go to your dad with. But if your dad's not around anymore, who do you go to? And my advice is now you've got this community of Christ around you.

The best family there is. The ones who can love you more than maybe even your earthly family. And your Heavenly Father, who is so incredibly gracious and healing, start to bring that acknowledgement before Him and others because people will surround you. I believe that about the people of faith. You know, we're supposed to be there for each other and people are there for each other. That's the path toward healing if Dad's gone.

You've heard the testimony of Matthew Wolak just now on First Person. It's a story of healing and forgiveness, and it's also told in this book titled Loving Your Father Even Though He, A Guide for Men to Acknowledge, Prepare, and Discuss Your Father Wound with Your Dad. You'll find a link to the book at firstpersoninterview.com.

Before we leave, a word of thanks to the Far East Broadcasting Company for helping to bring these interviews to you. FEBC has an extensive ministry through radio and other forms of media, including social media, to reach people with the gospel and its power to redeem the lost. In more than 50 countries, FEBC faithfully uses local voices to reach their culture with God's love and care. Learn more at febc.org.

Now, with thanks to my friend and producer Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for listening to First Person. First Person.