Shownotes Transcript
First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. You know, we all end up having influence on people. I challenge people in our groups. I don't care if you've got 5% or 100% influence possibilities, because I'm telling you, a person who uses 100% of 5% is a lot better than a person who uses 100% and uses only 5% of it. ♪
You'll meet the man behind that voice coming up now on First Person. He's Wayne Kuna, and he has a remarkable story to tell of how God led him from a career in designing toys to a ministry which teaches people about God's calling relating to our work. Thanks for choosing to listen to First Person. I'm Wayne Shepherd, encouraging you to stay with us now for this week's interview.
First Person is heard on over 500 radio stations across the country, but you can also listen online at firstpersoninterview.com, or you can subscribe to our podcast for automatic notification of new episodes sent to your smartphone or tablet. Search for First Person Interview with Wayne Shepherd.
Wayne Kuna has a background in designing toys. He was a partner in the world's largest toy design firm in Chicago. But when a mass shooting struck the company he worked for, it eventually led him to turning his life over to God and faith. And it has resulted in a ministry that you'll hear him describe in this interview on First Person. ♪
Wayne, I have to admit, you are my first toy designer guest here in First Person. Well, hopefully you won't be the last, and I bet you're surprised how tall I am from being an elf. Playing with toys, huh? Yeah, you know what? I'm not a toy designer.
I don't like games, but I love making them. I just, I like making my own rules. Do you? Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, that's in your background. That's not what you do today, is it? No, it's not what I do today. I bet you still have an appreciation for toys, though. I do. You know, I love creativity, no matter, you know, what shape it takes. It's just such a picture of who God is. I just love it. Yeah.
I have to admit that we now have a grandson, our first grandchild. He's six years old now. Well, nice. And I have to admit that it's reignited my interest in toys again. I'm a huge Lego fan now. Nice, of course. Yeah. He's got Grandpa buying his own Legos and putting his own kits together. Yeah, wait until it gets really expensive when he's like a teenager, and then he really has to buy a telescope. Yeah, yeah.
But being a toy designer is in your background before you became a believer. So tell me the story of coming to faith in Christ. Wow, it's a long story, but let me see if I can pull it together. The company that I worked at, it was a fantastic studio. It was the largest studio in the world, independent think tank for the entire toy industry, the global toy industry. And we had, you know, Light Bright, Mr. Machine, Toss A Cross, and
I mean, just, you know, Simon, the first electronic game. I mean, there was just so many things that they did. People were so creative. It was just crazy how creative they were. We had a really tragic event. We had a shooting at the company. A number of people were killed. Some people were wounded physically, and everybody was wounded emotionally. Yeah.
Uh, I had been sort of a religious person, but I think this brought me to a place where like life was about today because tomorrow was not here. I mean, just, you know, you know, eat, drink, be merry. You know, um, I was married. Uh, there were a lot of pressures on, on, I think on that is, I think I began to self-medicate with anger. So self-medicate with alcohol. Um,
And I spent probably a two-year period just winding down in some kind of a maelstrom, a whirlpool that just kept sucking me lower and lower. I got to a point where two years later, I was just really emotionally a wreck. I really hadn't been sleeping. I mean, when I mean haven't been sleeping, I mean I hadn't slept, I think, at the time just before I gave my life to Christ for five days, six days maybe. My mind was just running wild, running.
I couldn't shut off, which was great for my creativity and really bad for me as a person. Right, right. Well, I mean, this is no doubt in part due to the PTSD, what we call PTSD now, right? Yeah, I mean, to this day, I still have night terrors. Do you? Yeah, and usually it's just something frightening in my brain.
Her wife has gotten shoved, punched, kicked. I mean, you know, it's just really – she's a lovely lady. You know, ironically, the company where that shooting took place was across the street from Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Wow.
So I was on duty that day looking down from the 11th floor of the building across the street on the scene. It looked just horrible. I can't imagine what you all went through that day. Yeah, it was, you know, for me, it turned out I was just coming up the staircase and I had just put my hand on the door when I thought I heard firecrackers on the other side of the door.
Uh, and then I heard a woman say, oh my God, he's got a real gun. And I just froze. I just absolutely froze, which was great because I didn't open the door. I probably would have been wounded at least. Yeah. That was the last thing she said. She saved my life. Oh boy. Uh, so there was a lot of survivor guilt that went along with it. But a couple of years later you reached a low point. I reached that low point. Uh, my wife was teaching on the West side of Chicago and I was home alone and, and, uh,
I got down on my knees and said, I don't know if I'm going to do this the right way, Lord, but I know that I need a Savior. I know I'm a sinner. There's no question there.
I found myself on my face. I can't explain it, but I either experienced or saw a growing dark void between God and I because I was realizing that God was holy and I really wasn't. How did you know to turn to the Lord? Well, there had been a man shortly after the shooting that had come to Christ, and he was a cigar-smoking, foul-mouthed alcoholic.
And he changed. I mean, he was just completely different, you know, and he was going around telling everybody, you know, Jesus can really help you. And I'm like, he came into my office and I remember patting him on the back, grabbing him by the shoulders, turning him around, pushing him out the door and sliding my door closed. Oh no. You know, and, um, but I couldn't get out of him. I couldn't get out of my mind and my heart that he was, he was healed of a lot of things. Yeah.
So whatever he had experienced was far different than what I thought my faith or religion was about. So you turned to the Lord. So I turned to the Lord, had an amazing experience. God changed a lot of things. I mean, like, I felt like,
someone pushed a boulder off of me because I remember my whole body just relaxed and I breathed and I was able to sleep that night, you know, talk to my wife about coming to Christ. Then she was like, oh, great, you know, and just another extreme thing from my husband. But God's
did some amazingly wonderful things that to, to calm me down, to cleanse my mind and my heart about everything that had happened. Um, and then there were things that took a lot more time and probably still going on to this day. But, uh, I, I,
I was different, and I didn't do it. And your wife saw that? She saw that, yeah. And she was a really wonderful person, wasn't necessarily religious at all, did not believe, but just didn't pursue it.
But, yeah, I went to work. I found this fellow that talked about the Lord, and I said, hey, listen, I did this. And one thing led to another. We had a Bible study at the company, and all of a sudden there's 14, 15 people attending this Bible study. And people were looking for something to—
heal their hurts you know because we had all gone through really hell yeah you know we'd seen friends just carried out you know and not come back again we saw i remember when i opened the door to um to the hallway that i was standing behind that door when the pop stopped you know i turned around and i saw somebody moving it was this guy coming out of his office and he had been shot and he was just holding everything that should be inside on the outside you know and it was just uh
And there were other, I mean, people just even that didn't see things were just wounded by it. Horrible experience. When you became a believer then, did you develop a hunger for the Word? How were you discipled? Sure. How did you grow afterwards? What about your family? Yeah. So I did have a hunger for the Word. And I'd been really interested in it even as a high schooler. And I had read the New Testament a number of times.
and freaked out over what was the apocalypse, you know, or the revelation. And all of a sudden, it just like, I was reading all the time and everything was like alive to me. And I was like, oh, I think this piece fits with this piece. And oh, that means this. And look how that explains, you know, and just this wildness.
this wonderful whirlwind of truth was pouring into me, it felt like. And my wife, we were pregnant with our first child. And I remember I was in the bed and I'm reading my Bible, and all of a sudden my calm wife takes this parent magazine and comes flying across the room and hits me with it. And I was like, what's the matter? And she goes, well, you're going to become a parent and you're not even paying attention to, you know, and getting ready for that. And I'm like,
You know what? You're right. I said, I'll read your magazine. You read my Bible. Okay. And she did. There's a deal. Yeah. And over the next couple, I don't know, maybe a year or so, before the baby was born, she had given her life to Christ. Wonderful. Yeah, it was wonderful. Yeah.
And then you went on to study the Bible in a school. Yes, yes. I mean, you were serious about it. Yeah. So what ended up happening was I was still at this company where the shooting was at, and I was made a partner. And towards the end of the company's life cycle, I decided to start going to Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. And I was like, whoa, there's no way I could do this and be a partner at this company at the same time.
And then that company kind of closed, and then I kind of got involved in starting my own business. And for 11 years, I'd had my own toy inventing company and ran the cycle of being really bad at it to being really great at it to being bad at it again. And at that last part of the bad at it again, I was like, wow, this is...
a bad ending or it's a new beginning of something. And my wife was just like, you know what, Wayne, you have been involved in the church, you know, with youth and, you know, discipling and it's time for you to really go back to school. And so I came to Moody, you know, in the seminary and, uh, just met amazing people. Um,
And I ended up pastoring a church in Hinsdale for almost eight years. That's remarkable. You were in this company, very successful company, across the street from Moody as an unbeliever.
I don't know how you looked at that fortress that is Moody in downtown Chicago, but it's imposing, isn't it? And to think that you would actually end up coming to Christ and going to school in that building. Oh, it's, I mean, Moody's fingerprints are all over my life. I mean, whether it was Bessie
Bob Cook, you know, how in the world are you? Walk with the king today and be a blessing. Right, yes. You know, so I mean, you know, him or, you know, John Tall, who was an evening school professor that I attended. Wonderful man. Yes, yes, you know, and then, you know, getting a chance to meet, you know, George Sweeting and then Joe Stoll. And I mean, it was just like, it was like I couldn't get away from them. They were chasing me down. It was like I was being stalked.
We'll talk more with Wayne Kuna about what God has called him to a workplace discipleship ministry coming up on First Person. ♪
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My guest is Wayne Kuna. Wayne is the founder and president of Work in the Light now, as it's called. You recently changed the name, and so you have this new named ministry. But you've been doing this for a while, haven't you? Yeah, we started it in 2012. The first ground was probably late in 2011, but the first group started then. You know, we work in small groups. The initial strategy was to have small groups that met at or near church.
like train stations for people who were commuting downtown. And what we did was we coached them in biblical principles of leadership for today's workplace. I had an amazing experience when I came to Christ. It was the same week that I was offered a partnership at the studio where I worked. And word got around and got to the managing partner, and all of a sudden I got a call in the office, and what's...
And he asked a question that I never thought of. He said, Wayne, what's this going to mean? And I was like, I didn't know my faith meant anything at work. I knew I was going to pray a little more, read my Bible, go to church, you know, do all some service work. But work? What does that got to do with faith, you know? And it stimulated, you know, a question. And I guess I didn't answer right away. And he said, Wayne, you know, what's it going to mean? Hmm.
And I said, give me a second, you know? And I explained to him what I thought it meant, which turned out to be a little bit like, what would Jesus do? And he said, is that all? And I said, that all? I said, that's everything. I said, you just told me that my faith is going to mean everything.
to everything in my life. And this was a guy who didn't believe in Jesus, didn't believe in God, and yet God used him to really hit me with the question that I needed to hear. It sharpened you, didn't it? Oh my gosh. And so what it meant to me was that I needed to be a shepherd.
that wherever you look in Scripture, God's leaders are shepherds. Even the bad leaders are shepherds. You know, they're bad shepherds. They're evil shepherds. We have their stories, and they teach us something, don't they? They're all there, you know? So I began just studying what it meant to be a shepherd, not only biblically, but just
You know, in New Zealand, what do they do with three million sheep, you know? And I learned a lot, you know, and I learned a lot about myself. I learned about the people that I was serving as a leader. I learned how to care for them. I began to see Psalm 23 as an incredibly different song. It wasn't about death. It was about someone who was singing about their shepherd who provided everything for them, provided food.
a place to rest right off the bat he makes me lie down where green nourishment you know and there's there are 11 things in that environment that's created by this shepherd of david's that i realized i needed to bring to my environment in the toy industry and then in my environment when i became a pastor and oh by the way my environment as a husband and as a father
And all these things are happening at the same time. You are an employee who has just come to faith, and your boss is asking you those questions. You become a partner that same day, I think you said. Ink signature is still wet. Simultaneously. Eventually became a business owner. Yes. So you have that perspective as well. You can look back, can't you, and see how God was shaping you and teaching you and preparing you for what you're doing now. Yeah.
Absolutely. You know, I think I kind of said it earlier. I mean, I've had a couple rough endings, you know, one business closing, my business closing, you know, actually being asked not to be the pastor anymore because they wanted to try another person or, you know, whatever. Those are all broken experiences. But the thing that was so amazing about it is that one ending led to a new beginning. Mm-hmm.
You know, the ending with one company, the beginning of my own company, the ending of my own company to going to Moody and being a student, the ending of being a Moody student to become pastor, the end of being a pastor to being a spiritual coach, so to speak, you know, in the business world. And I'm like, if I look this way, it's been really a tough life. If I look this way, it's been a wonderful life, you know, so. Yeah.
Well, as a part of your ministry now, you do a podcast, and I'll put information about the podcast in our program notes because I want our listeners to know about that. The podcast is actually called Work is Calling. It's a ministry of Work and the Light. So Work and the Light is actually the title of a book that I wrote about
all these different leadership principles. So we take a look at what work means in God's economy, what leadership looks like, what an environment looks like of a godly leader, and then finally what it means to have a singular God priority. And then work is calling was developed from the stories that I've heard about people who actually look at their everyday jobs like it's calling work.
from God just like it would be a pastor, a priest, or a missionary. I mean, they see it just as fervently as any person that you would see spiritually. I thought Stuart Briscoe one time put it the best when he said that so-and-so is a disciple of Jesus Christ skillfully disguised as a mechanic. Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah, it's been amazing. So we're in our fourth season with the podcast. We've had probably about 50, maybe 60 different
testimony, so to speak. And they're all over. I mean, they cover everything. You know, attorneys, doctors, nurses, engineers, security agents, transporters. I mean, it's incredible. Yeah.
So talk to us some more about integrating our faith at work. No doubt someone's listening who's perhaps at a crossroads or maybe a bit discouraged in their work right now, or maybe they feel like their work doesn't matter to anyone. Sure, yeah. Talk to them. I remember sitting in a group with the board member of one of Chicago's largest, if not the largest financial institution. And in the group was a kid who was just starting as a clerk at a bank, okay? And...
He hated his job. He really did. He, you know, it wasn't what he was looking for coming out of college, but he needed the work and he did it. And, and, um,
We started talking about how God says, Paul wrote to the Colossians, he said, whatever you do, do you work heartily for the Lord, not for men. You don't work for them, you work for me. And I'm going to be the one who is going to reward you. I'm the one who's going to pay you some bonus. I mean, it's going to make anything that you make here on earth almost like nothing by comparison.
And this kid sat there, and I remember he leaned back in his chair, and he jumped up in the air, and he goes...
That's great. He goes, I never thought of that, you know? And then I talked about how Paul wrote to the Ephesians and he said, you know, you are God's masterpieces, poema, which is the Greek word. And it's like his poem, you know? And he's created you out of Jesus stuff, it says. He didn't make you out of wood. He's not making you out of marble. He's making you out of Jesus stuff. So you still look like you, but you have all the character traits of your medium. Your medium is Jesus. So you look more and more like him, even though you look like yourself.
and I said, not only that, it says that he's prepared these works for you beforehand for you to walk in. And I said, he's been waiting for all eternity to call you into existence, to call you into his love with his son, Jesus Christ, so that you could partner with him and what he's doing in the world. I said, you're the only person who could do this because the work is designed for you and nobody else. And this kid was like,
It was great. So what's true for him is true for all of us. So there are phenomenal truths that we could take to work with us. And as I've discovered, working with men and women in the workplace, these same truths that work in your professional life
are really impactful in your personal life as well. I don't know if you got a second, but one of the things that we do is we look at leadership. Jesus in John 10 talks about the good shepherd. And he says one of the things about the good shepherd is that they have a voice that only their sheep hear.
and the sheep will respond to only their voice. They'll hear another voice. They won't even pay attention to it, you know? So, you know, I sit with major executives in the city of Chicago, and I ask them, I said, so that's the truth. So what does your voice represent to the people that you lead? Mm-hmm.
And they're like, never thought of that. I said, well, this week, why don't you go and find out what your voice means to the people around you? This one attorney, he's got his name on the door, nationally known for what he does, okay, comes in next week, and he goes, yeah, I went up to my secretary, and I said, hey, good morning. And he said she flinched. He goes, I thought I scared her because she had her back to me. I said, hey, I just was wondering how things are going, how's the job, stuff like that. She never turned around to talk to me.
And I was like, he goes, as I walked through the office and he said, I found that example, that response pretty typical. He goes, I thought I was an encouraging person. It turns out that I'm a critical person. And then he started welling up with tears in his eyes. And he goes, Wayne. And he goes, yeah. What does my voice mean to my kids? You know, that changed that man.
And it was a basic leadership principle about a shepherd and what a shepherd does and what his voice means when he takes care of his sheep. It's been great again this week to hear how God takes a life and infuses it with a purpose that has eternal impact.
Wayne Kuna of the ministry Work in the Light has been our guest. If you'd like to learn more about this workplace discipleship program, please visit FirstPersonInterview.com. There we'll post links to both the website as well as the Work is Calling podcast, which Wayne interviews people from all different professions. Again, the links are found at FirstPersonInterview.com.
Thank you to the Far East Broadcasting Company for the assistance in bringing these First Person interviews to you. FEBC Broadcasting Programs in the language of its local listeners is heard throughout a large part of the world using radio and even social media to carry the message of God's love and salvation. You can learn more about this ministry online at febc.org. Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for listening to First Person. ♪