Pete Holmes
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Okay, Dana, this show, we've got Pete Holmes, who's a buddy of mine that I see at Largo mostly, a very funny comedian. A funny, funny man. Very tall guy with good hair, which obviously infuriates me.

Incredible hair. Incredible hair. We've been talking about this hair for about 30 minutes. And I think you've worked with Pete also. I ran into Pete when I first moved back down to LA. Remember when I used to start going out to dinner with you all the time? Yeah. During that period of time, I ran into him at Conan's and he seemed really affable. He is...

a really large person, but doesn't, but he's a gentle person. So he doesn't, you know, but anyway, so I went on his podcast and we talk about that and I did Largo with him and we did improv and stuff, but I hadn't seen him a long time.

Uh, he personifies a nice, generous person. Yes, go ahead. Yeah, I'm sorry. We get into Judd. He's tight with Judd. He did a show called Crashing on HBO. Uh, the story that he, to get to that was very, very interesting to me and working with different people and doing different shows. And he has a podcast and,

And he's just got a lot of, he also is a bit religious. And we got into a slightly deep conversation, all of us, which we can use now and then on this show. We got a little philosophical about the universe, so forth and so on. But someone who's really raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment and then goes out into the crazy world of stand-up comedy and is potentially polluted by minds like David Spade.

I'm just pollution. That's all I am is brain pollution, noise pollution, everything. I talk too much. So we'll give it to you right now. Here is Pete. You don't need to know anything else. Here he is. Are you on the road?

I am on the road. I can tell. I look at that hotel. I am certain of this more than I'm certain of anything. I said, it's not great because I'm on the road. And they said, it's the only date they had. And I know saying that to both of you, you're going to both be like, we could have done it another time. I know it. No, I just said, make it as difficult for Pete as possible.

I just sent a memo eight months ago. It said Holmes in June. I looked at it today. Holmes in June. So here we are. It's all set. Yeah, I wanted it because summer's starting. We wanted a happy guest. But you look fine. Yeah, he looks good. You actually look good for a hotel room. Yeah, I did. I got the makeup mirror here.

here oh my god did a lamp and i paid for the premium internet boys oh you know what i've done that i don't like it but i've done it i paid i was like wait i got fly i'm very excited to be on the show and to see both of you and i paid for that premium that's how you know i'm not just saying that i'll venmo you you're sincere

I think it might be time to become a Hilton honors member and just get it where you get the immediate. I think I might splurge. Yeah. And go full Hilton honors. Fucking hair. Pete has fucking hair and he's hiding in a hat. He doesn't, he doesn't even know what he has. God damn. You can't make it look thin. Shit. Looks like Roger rabbit. Can't you guys both have fabulous hair? I just don't know. That's what we were getting at. Thank you.

Just in a forward angle like this.

Look at that hair. It fucking makes me mad. Every time I talk to him, he's seven feet tall, which I hate. Then he's got cool hair. He's six. He's six, six. Don't make him into a giant. Are you really six, six? I am six foot five and a half, but that's not funny. Over six, two. My friendship goes down about 40% because I don't want to be around. Line them up for me. Okay. Kevin Nealon, Conan O'Brien, Pete Holmes,

Kirk Fox is tall. The magician, Penn. Penn's labyrinth? Penn. I'm as tall as Conan's hair. Like Conan's pompadour. Oh, yeah. What a cheater. Yeah. Yeah. We're lined up, but I'm lined up to his hair. So he's probably like 6'3", I guess, and three inches of orange.

of orange just fuzz. When I go on date speed, I say wear ballet shoes. That's a prerequisite for girls. And then I say flatten your hair with oil as flat as it goes. You don't get one quarter inch higher. I like that very, very much. Yeah, they get that ahead of time. Were you

I told you Spade that I really liked the movie, The Wrong Misty. I think Lauren Lapkus is amazing. And I really thought that movie was a lot of fun. And then that line, she accuses you of wearing a wig in the movie. Oh, she does? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. There's a moment where she's clearly improvising and everyone laughs. It's like a blooper in the movie. Yeah. Because I do. At least I'm not wearing a wig. And I'm like, wait, I'm sorry. This character is wearing a wig.

No, I'm not Pete. This is where it is. I'm kind of, everyone thinks I'm wearing a wig full time and I wouldn't make it this fucking ratty. Is it because of Tommy boy? You think? Yeah, because of the fan and Tommy boy, everybody's like, Oh, it's a dance and two fake piece in a cheers. So I think people think Ted Benson is bald. Oh yeah. You know, Tommy boy, we had to Dana will love this lore. We,

We did it. And I said, I think it's funny, which I was wrong. I said that we walked by a big fan. It blows my hair back and I'm bald. I go, I think it should be less goofy. Like it should just be a piece of it is bald. Like a little bit in the back. Not the, whatever we did, we did it not a thousand percent. And then we flew back to LA or wherever New York to do the show and

And they looked at it and they go, you can see it from this clip. And I go, it's not that funny. They go, do you want to come back to a full bald cap and do it again? I go, yes, I don't want to. But of course, as the three of us know, if it's for something funny.

It's a, it's a bigger, it's bigger than you. You have to do it. So yeah. Bald cap. That was a reshoot. There's your clip. We're at four minutes in. You got, you know, about clips. I love it. You got to clip it. The secret behind David Spade's hair piece. Huge. That's true. Honored to be involved. I put my hat on now. Tommy boy is a trender, man. Tommy boy.

always gets out there. What trends on, yeah, it got weird. What we, you made it weird. You made it weird. You know, what I've noticed is we, we had, um, whenever we have a beautiful woman on, I've noticed that as much as things change, you kind of can't compete with a beautiful guest. Like I've noticed that like deeply handsome people and deeply beautiful people tend to, they win across the board.

Somehow in a video medium, they're coming out ahead again. Jesus Christ. They're coming out ahead again, again. But I'm always surprised. There'll be something that I'm like, this is profound. This is life changing. This is huge. And then that does fun. And then somebody, somebody beautiful being witty and charming is like, we can't not look at that. We have to see it. Yeah. We know some beautiful people out there.

But we don't do the like, I should have learned that. You know what I mean? Like, whoops, the biggest mistake in showbiz. And then that kind of click-baity thing. We're supposed to be average. I'm not including you in this because you're tall. And Dana's a good looking dude. I'm sick of being in the middle here. I'm Malcolm in the middle over here. Yeah, why would you look like you're in second grade? I mean, your frame is kind of like just a head. You could adjust the frame. Okay, this is better. You could adjust that.

They wanted me to be Wilson and home improvement. I have a fake plant. Yeah. Dana's killing it. They thought that this look would be better than what you have. So I did it. You know, when I went on your podcast, this will trend. I hadn't really kind of been on a podcast and I didn't really know what they were or what they were about.

And I met you a few times in the clubs and then you had said, you're just having a bad day. You're kind of depressed. When you did my podcast? Yeah. You said you felt like at the dental office, you're wearing that thing, but it was very interesting. Yeah. And I, um,

That was one of my first kind of regular podcasts. That's funny. That's what you remember. What I remember was that you were such a big get. Slippery Spade keeps ducking me. But we got Dana, and I was really excited. And I was kind of like...

You know, our podcast is long. A typical episode is two hours. In a very small room in those days. A very small, tight room with the button pusher person right there. That's exactly right. We're in a different studio now, but...

I was like, Dana's probably, not in a big time way, but just like, this is a guy, he's got a life, he's got a career, he's got less to prove. He's probably gonna wanna do an hour and get out of there. Not only did you do over two hours, you didn't wanna leave. And I really respected it. Like a standup on stage, you wanted to end on a really big laugh. And I was like, oh my God, this is just how we are. Even if it takes another hour 30.

He kept looking for that needle in the haystack. You looked at me and you went, is that enough? Like you didn't know. Because he doesn't know how it works probably. He probably thought, I don't know what I'm doing here.

I think it might have been Tina Fey or was it Steve Martin that just said like going on talk shows, you have to always be great. You can't be mediocre even one second. And you still have that mindset. It's kind of a lot of pressure. Like, okay, how will I be the greatest guest that Pete's ever had? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But I was touched that for all your success that you still had that mentality. Touched that it was generous to the audience, but also it made me feel less alone because I will do a podcast. It's one of my favorite things to do actually is I'll do a smaller podcast, right? I think it's kind of nice. It's low pressure. But when I go on...

I'm trying to be a great guest. There's no like math. Right. Like this doesn't matter. You're like, this is all we're doing. Everything's an audition. Someone only heard Dana in their life on your podcast. And they're like, that's right. This is my decision on Dana Carvey. If he's funny or not. And that's the hard part. People go, oh, I thought, you know, if they're fans, they go, I know you.

All the way back to grownups. And I'm like, grownups? Nothing before that? They go, did you do anything before grownups? I go, no, it doesn't matter. Because all you have to do is get them once. Because I was thinking people I like,

If they get me in a movie, you know what I mean? Well, obviously Chevy Chase had done some big ones a bunch, but if you're just in an old movie and I like it, I'm in for life. I'm like, I like that person. I like that person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just, we were in the car. We're in Irvine. My family came with me and my daughter was watching Hotel Transylvania 2. So I heard your voice this morning, Spade. That's a cute one for kids, I think.

It's very cute, but it's also, I'm not just saying this, it's really funny. - It is funny. - You got a huge laugh from us. You're talking about your invisible girlfriend who's from Canada. - Yeah. - And you do this, and we all know what it's like being in a, I don't know if you did it on ensemble. I'm guessing you didn't do it in an ensemble. - No, alone. - So you're alone.

And you had to nail this line. Like they're like, Oh, this is your invisible girlfriend. Oh, right. Is she the one from Canada? And you say like, Oh, quiet guys. The wedding's about to start. In a way that me, my wife and my daughter, we all laughed. And I was like,

that I'm not just buttering your bread. I'm like, that really is special. And then Sandler as the vampire in that movie is throwing the grownups bones. It seems like every other line, there's something that, that the grownups get to laugh at. So yeah, we, we, we nudged her towards that movie, but you were in my car this morning. Thank you. And you're like, Oh, I got to do this thing today. I forgot. But Irvine improv, is that where you're at?

I am at the Irvine Improv, yeah. It's great. It's great. It's super fun, and I confused it with the Brea Improv. I don't know if you've ever walked into a club and you're walking through the kitchen, which always feels like real show business to me. From the back. And I'm looking for the green room, and I just couldn't. I know.

couldn't find it because I thought I was, I don't know. I just turned 46. I think it's like an airlock opened and all of these papers just flew out and I'm more confused than I've ever been. And then they were like, it's over here. And I went in the green room and I was like,

Because I was imagining the wrong one. It was very disorienting to be like, yeah. And you're like, I don't even know where I am. You're like, oh wait, that means the stage is behind me. Oh wait, where am I? That's so weird. I've done that. It's so weird. I picture a green room and I go, wait, I've not been to this club before. I totally pictured, I was just on the road. I'm on the road too. And that's probably why we do these now because I come back. I don't do them on the road.

It's too hard because I have either a camera. I can't understand how to plug in a computer. So they go, we got to wait. You're not a Hilton Honors member. I'm not. So you got to pay for the. I'm a red roof guy. I just did the gigs with Dana where, well, I didn't tell Dana, but it was a small town, great theater where you see like eight people that day. And there's like a Hardee's and there's one Dairy Queen. You go, there's no way anyone's coming to this show. I don't see one person. Yeah.

And then they filled it up and you go, oh, they show up. But my hotel had three strips of Kleenex for curtains. And there's like three feet in between each one. I'm like, these are my blackout curtains from the website. And then the air conditioner under this white where the vents are about two inches wide. They're like this. Yes. You know, and you're all right. And then it goes off and it comes on again. You're like, oh, my God, it's like a tornado in here.

Do you know, you must know the life hack of the hanger, right? You know the hanger life hack? Is that for curtains? Yeah, for the curtains. No. No? Let me see if I have one. This is pretty bad. Interesting. Let me see. I've heard you take a chip clip from potatoes, potato chips, and squeeze them together, Dana.

Yeah, I don't travel with a chip clip because I'm not, you know. Okay, so why? I'm not eating so many chips that I need to keep them fresh on the road. Yeah, Bert Kreischer's act is the guy with the chip clip. And I love Bert. This is what you use.

This is in the closet of every hotel. As you're mentioning, the curtains will never close. So you clip it. Take a hanger. Clip it together with this. Oh, you clip the hangers. You clip the curtains together. You clip the curtains together with the hanger. Oh, you know what? If girls have a banana clip in their hair, that might work. Not all of us are traveling with supermodels and bags of Cool Ranch that we need to keep fresh for several days. Listen, if you have a brick of gold.

You can lean it against the curtain. You can also block the light from the people by stacking bricks. You stack them. It's a hassle. You got to take them all out of the suitcase. But I like knowing where they are. I like knowing where they are. And I have the private jet pilot bring them in. He stacks them. He counts them after the flight. And when I want to leave, he moves them. I go, did anybody take one? They go, we've been up here, sir. Count them. Count them in front of me. And I'm like, this again.

Listen, I've got a closet, Dana, with a bunch of stuff in it. Oh, boy, have I seen your closet. I got winded running across it. Yeah. Yeah, listen, it's mostly half shirts and sailor hats. But you know what? I need a few good, solid pieces to spruce it up. Comfortable, well-made, versatile.

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No, I know that Pete, I see it, Pete, at Largo a lot. And that's a fun place. That's an Apatow spot in my head. And you do a lot with Apatow from crashing on. And tell us about crashing, how it got going. Well, I mean, it was a big deal. I love telling that story. And I love Jed. I was going to say, one of the strangest things to come from crashing is that

I would say Mike Birbiglia and Judd and Neil Brennan and Andrew Santino are the four people I talk to the most. And the fact that one of those people is Judd Apatow still blows me away. We call, we talk about feelings, what's going on in our lives. There's no show business. We're just...

And I'm so honored to see the side of Judd that is just the New Balance dad bod guy. It's just kind of completely, you know, I mean, every once in a while he'll mention having dinner with Paul McCartney or something. And you'll remember that he's Judd Apatow. But for the most part, he really is that.

Dorky, latchkey, raised by television, kid. Loves it. Loves showbiz. Loves show business. Loves comedy. Loves to laugh and also like

doesn't talk shit. Like if you go like, Oh, I saw the new season of, uh, he's always like, I liked it. I thought it was pretty good. You know, Spade got a few laughs. It's one of your things. It's one of my things that you're trashing. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. I thought it was funny. There's room for that show. What, what happened with, um,

crashing. And I love telling the story because it's like an exercise in gratitude. So I was doing the Pete Holmes show, which was a talk show that I did with Conan, which was also, that's a whole other story. And Judd did a sketch with us. Now that I know Judd, I'm like, Judd gets pitched this sketch three times a month. It's like, I'll pitch you bad movies.

That's like the first idea you have, but that's, that's the kind of operation we were running. So we go in and I pitch him bad movies. And if you watch the sketch, it's on, it's on YouTube. I actually, he starts improvising and then I started improvising back obviously. Um,

And I pitch him crashing in that sketch as a joke. Because he keeps going, what's your real idea? What's your real idea? What's your real idea? I'm like, I remember, I'm like, oh, it's a bear who's like the sidekick in a magic act. And he learns magic from watching the magicians. And he escapes. And it's called beargician. That's like the joke. I keep pitching different animals learning magic from their captors.

And then he goes, and he seemed dead serious, but the cameras are rolling. It was what, what's your real idea? What's your real idea? What would you really want to do? And I go, well, I was raised religious. I married the first girl I ever dated. The first girl I ever slept with. We got married six years in, she had an affair and I was sort of kicked into the deep end of standup comedy. Like I sort of doubled down on my life as a comedian, but

while I was also trying to learn how to be a functional adult, Barry Jad Apatow, right? Like I'm going through my twenties and my thirties is basically the show. And he's like, in the sketch, he goes, that's too sad. That's, that's too sad. Don't really, he's joking, but he goes, that's too sad. Nobody likes that. That's this. That's pathetic. I don't like it. I'm like, okay. So that that's like six months later, the Pete Holmes show is canceled.

And me and my producing partner, Oren Brimmer, we were like, you know, we're at our fighting weight. We were doing nine episodes of that show a week. We were just like tearing through jokes, jokes, jokes, sketch, sketch, sketch. We were like really strong. So we're like, let's go with this momentum. We know the show is canceled.

but the show's going to air because we had all these episodes backlogged for like two months beyond being canceled. So we know it's canceled, but the world doesn't know it's canceled. So we're like, wow, it's still airing. And we feel like we have some still wipes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to go out and we're going to try and pitch a sketch show. Cause that was our favorite part of doing the Pete home show. It was one of our favorite parts was the sketches. So we go into comedy central and,

And we're like, we're going to pitch them a sketch show. And in the like, you know, that courtesy 30 minutes before the meeting where you're like chatting, you know, you have a Fiji and you're talking. Kent Alterman, who is the head of Comedy Central at the time. He's wonderful. And we're friends. He says to me, well, one thing's for sure. We're not looking for another fucking sketch show. And everyone laughs, including us. We're like, imagine that.

But we were there to pitch a sketch show. So we scramble and we go, okay, we just lie. We said, oh, we were just here, you know, for a meeting, a general meeting. We don't have anything to pitch. And they're like, oh, that's a little weird, but okay. 100% weird. That's strange that you all took an hour out of our day to just say what's up. I'm like, okay, we'll see you later.

And I remember this very, very vividly. And as I get older and even more forgetful and more papers fly out of my airlock as I age, the story will get even more romantic and special. But I went down into, I had a little Volkswagen Golf at the time. And I sat in my car parked on the street in front of,

Comedy Central. And I was like, had one of those, like, I guess you call it like a come to Jesus moment. I was like, what am I doing? Like, I don't know what I'm going to do. I've had this job. I feel like I got this break, but I don't know what's next. And that was scary. And then just like a high school guidance counselor, I said, well, what would you do if you could do anything like that? I find that to be a helpful exercise.

here's a blank check. You can do anything you want. What do you want to do? I was like, well, I would want to do a show. I'm just talking to myself in my car. Like I'd want to do a show like girls. I really liked the show girls. So I would want to do a show about my life, about getting into comedy with Judd Apatow on HBO. That's, that's what I thought. But then I was like,

But what is the show? And very, very quickly, obviously I just pitched it to Judd pretend style six months earlier, but I was like, well, it could be about a guy who married the first girl he was ever with. Who's religious. She has an affair. Um,

And then in that moment of like pressure in the car, I was like, oh, and every episode he can be crashing on the couch of a different comedian. Cause I always wanted like an interesting engine. Like it would be a hook. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys know from selling a show, whether or not you do the hook, it doesn't really matter. You need to show them that there is a hook. You can abandon the hook, but there should be a hook. So I was like, this is great. That was a Wednesday, uh,

And I was like, you know, writing it in my phone and stuff. And I was like, I knew Judd's team from having done the Pete Holmes show. So I reached out to my manager and I was like, can we, can I get a meeting with Judd? This is also, this is that sort of naive approach.

It's the kind of insanity you sort of need in show business, but you can't have too much of where I'm like, I just came up with this idea and I'm like, I'm going to pitch it now. Like that's, that's not really. Gather the troops. Exactly. But that, that is how I am. I tend to light up really hot for things and I want to go, go, go. So it was Wednesday and they were like, well, he's in New York and he's shooting train wrecks.

And if you want, you can go to the set of train wreck at like 6 a.m. He has 15 minutes for you. Again, this is Wednesday and that was Friday. And I was like, yes, I booked the flight on Thursday. It's a classic Hollywood cliche. Yeah, totally. I got the United ticket.

You know, I'm probably in like the exit row with a, with a United napkin writing out what the show is. It was flight 93 though. That would be, I wasn't going to say that because it's sort of derails the main narrative, but I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's true. That is what happened. It's a good hook though. Takes a big turn. I'm writing out the idea. I get in on Thursday and,

Judd, by the way, does not know that I flew in because he would have said, don't fly in. Nobody flies across the country for 15 minutes. But I was like, it was a no brainer. I got up at like five. I got a coffee, which is two your time, which is two. Thank you. Which is to my time.

Went in there. Amy was there. I know Amy a little bit, so I'm, I'm feeling kind of comfortable. Vanessa Bay. She's in there too. They're shooting train wreck. Yeah. But she's not in this thing you're doing.

No, no, no. I'm on the set of Trainwreck. We're in like the fake magazine. But that's where I'm going to sit down. You mean they've already started their day. I thought it was before their day starts. So Amy's buzzing around. You see everyone. Then you go, I got a corner, Judd. Focus him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without these people. And I don't want them to hear the idea and go, thumbs down if you're asking me. Honestly.

Honestly, totally. I mean, who is more distracted than a director on set before they're shooting? Like it was kind of a bad idea. So he's sitting at this table. I sat down and like, you know, I felt like,

Okay, I talked to him for like 12 minutes about other stuff. And then in the last three minutes, I was like, here's the show. And what happened, and to take some of the onus off me, like I don't really deserve full credit, is he, Judd, was just getting back into standup in New York. And I'm pitching him a show about a guy getting into standup in New York. So the stars aligning on that. He was in.

And the sort of postscript to the story is he goes, write it. He didn't say like, let's do it. You got a deal. He was like, write it. I'll take a look at it. And I wrote the script in two days and sent it to him. And we were off. I think we pitched it like a couple of weeks after. It was crazy.

Is he have to pitch too hard or is HBO saying, what do you want to do next? Judd, like kind of an Adam Netflix kind of thing. They, they did have a deal with Judd. I think we pitched it to Amazon and they passed. And then Judd told me to stop being so philosophical, which is a funny thing because in Judd's masterclass,

he uses me as the example of how not to pitch a show, which I didn't know until I was watching Judd's masterclass. And he's like, "What do you want to do? "Don't do what Pete Hobbs did. "Don't do what Pete did. "He got all philosophical. "Just tell him it's funny." And I'm that way. I want to talk about the themes. I want to talk about the message. I want to talk about the growth and the feelings. Judd was like, "Just say it's funny. "You're going to love it. Trust us."

And I was like, yeah, that is how you would pitch it if you're Jed Apatow. But I've never had to pitch it that way. But then HBO. Who was it? It was Casey Bloys and it was Amy Gravett. And I think I'm forgetting one person, but they were warm. It was warm. But I said way less. I said way less. Oh, he judged it. Taken over a little bit, huh?

He could have, but he was trying to take over by like saying, I mean, it's like Johnny Cash pitching an album. You know what I mean? And there's some sweaty guy next to him being like, there's going to be a G and a C and a D. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't chill. He's like, I'm talking less is kind of a hint for the feel of it. Let's just get less is more.

Well, you know those shows where someone's like, if I crumble my paper, it means shut up? Like, we should have had a symbol like that. Oh, I don't know that. Dana should do that to me. Oh, yeah. You guys are doing great. I'm just laying back today. I just had surgery, so. Did you really? Yeah, that's all right. On what? A hernia kind of thing. I'm a little loopy, but. I'm, I'm.

See, look, I'm in Irvine. You had a hernia. This is not our perfect day, but we're in great shape. You're doing great. We love this. You're driving. You're driving because I said Pete is good at this. And he's funny. What about this show? We get 10 minutes of gold. Are you out of your mind? We're not pulling teeth. We get 20 minutes of gold out of this motherfucker. There you go. I appreciate it.

You know, well, podcasters are great. I'm not saying I'm great. I'm saying it's always a day off when I have, of course, that's why I said he will take our dumb show and make it better because people who do podcasts understand the form and our good guests. You know, when I went on smart list, I,

And I saw the three of them on the thing. I said, okay, I'm just going to do shtick. I'm just going to go full bore, tell stories, and make you laugh. So I want you guys to have a day off. And they kind of got it. So that's all I did the whole time. That's what Conan said about Martin Short. He goes, he's a day off. And I was like, yep. They're guys that come on and just deliver. Well, they do some homework on those shows, and they get out there and just...

It helps. It does. Dana, I'm going to tell you something you might not know, but summer is here. Yee-haw. It is. So that equates to more sun, more daylight. I'm just giving you the bit. I'm explaining what summer is. It's good. Thank you. More time to soak up everything that makes this season so great. But let's be real. The last thing I want to do is be in a hot kitchen.

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I'm not going to go over the fact that you're a who-ra-theist, which is maybe the funniest word I've heard in a while. That's funny. I can tell where you're getting your research. No, you don't. You'll never guess. Yes, I do. I know where you get your research. Wikipedia? I think it's so funny. I wrote a book about my spiritual journey, and there's one chapter called The Who-ra-theist, which means when I was a fundamentalist Christian and I thought everyone I talked to was going to hell.

which is a huge burden. This is underreported. If you're a sweet, loving person, which a lot of people of faith are, it sucks to go around and be like, wow, David, I can't believe you're going to hell. Seems like a great guy, but I just figured it out. You said the wrong thing. It made me sad all the time. And all of my friends were atheists because all my friends were comedians.

And I wrote this chapter about how confusing it was after my first wife obviously left me. It was very challenging to my faith because honestly, if I'm being real, I thought God was looking out for me. Like stuff like that doesn't happen to people who don't smoke or drink or swear. I was very clean on stage and then this bad thing happened. So I'm like questioning my faith.

And all my friends are comedian atheists. And I noticed that my friends were all deeply moral, good, sweet, loving people. And that's what that chapter is about. I'm like, why? Why? Like we were in a hotel.

And there was like an unmanned convenience store, you know, those little convenience stores where you're supposed to charge to the room. I was like, if there's no God, why don't I just take a Sprite? Like, I don't understand. Like, what is the point if it's not for some sort of afterlife insurance, you know? And I remember my friends were like, it's for us.

If you steal the guy or the woman working this shift might get in trouble. You know what I mean? Like she might be reprimanded. She might lose her job. You don't do it because in and of itself, it's the good and right thing to do. Yeah. It's wrong. And, and, and even better, it's right to not do it. You know what I mean? So I was like,

It felt so pure and good. It wasn't to be rewarded or recognized or, you know, given an eternal massage on a cloud with a harp. It was for the here and now and for to take to to remember that we belong to each other, that that person, even though we don't know them, we care about them and we care about them not being in trouble.

So I didn't, obviously I wasn't going to steal the spread. It was just an example. But then after I saw these beautiful atheists in my life, I briefly, as like a thought experiment, I was like, I'm going to be an atheist. And it was such a surprise that I liked it. I was like, I enjoyed it.

putting down all of these heavy ideological bags that I had been carrying. And I was just like, this is it. Let's care about each other. Let's take care of each other. And there's nothing else going on here. And I found that to be a nice break from thinking everyone is

I mean, think of all the millions and millions and millions of people throughout history that are just burning in hell. Putting that away made me go, this isn't an atheist. This is a heratheist. I like this. This is nice. You die. It's over. Where were you? You said this on my podcast, Dana. You said, where were you during the Renaissance?

That's where you go when you die. It's over. I was like, this is a relief as compared to the eternal Judge Judy that's going to tear you apart. So I was briefly an atheist, and I called the chapter Heratheist, but it really was like a month. And then I took some mushrooms, and then I started thinking about those things again. Do you think Christians get a bad rap out there? I think they're having a tough time because I read about things where people go after more and more

I read about something in Africa. I'm like, wow, I don't know. Cause you just don't hear about it a lot, but maybe you would. Yeah. I don't, I don't feel qualified to. Oh, I am. I'm a podcaster. I will say that, you know, I, I, I no longer identify as a Christian. It's very confusing because I love Christ. And I think that's, that's what it is, man. I think what, what he was teaching is the truth.

But where we fall away is I don't believe in what's called atonement theory. This is boring. Atonement theory is the idea that you both are very familiar with, which is that Jesus died because you both are wicked little children and you need to be like washed in blood or otherwise God is going to flick you into a furnace. That's where it loses me. But if you look at the words of Jesus, that's not his message. That's sort of added on.

later. That was a lot of theology for 30 seconds. I read that in Jesus's Wikipedia because I just read it all the time. But I mean, I would say that like

I see it a lot of different ways, meaning a lot of my atheist friends come on my podcast and we start talking and realize we don't believe in the same God, if that makes sense. Like we're talking about an old man in the sky with a beard, like a lifeguard who's watching and blowing his whistle. Basically a guy like a king with a surveillance system that's watching you do all your wicked things and can't wait to torture you.

I'm like, I also don't believe in that God. And when you broaden it out to have a conversation about consciousness or awareness or being itself, the atheists, the Christians, we all can kind of like come into this middle where we all agree. And I'm very interested in that space. Okay.

You guys didn't do ketamine before the talk? No, we already cut that part out. I was texting everyone going, this part, we got to lose it. No, I'm kidding. I started it. No, I like hearing about it because we talk about different things and it's very interesting to me to hear that. And also that's such a part of you that

Listen, we can go back to talk about 7-Eleven and stuff like my act, but sometimes you have to talk about real things. It's interesting. Well, you know what's funny is we're not actually talking about something that's exotic or mysterious. Every person listening, you, me,

David, Dana, we're all having the experience of being aware. And that's the mystery. Even science agrees. That's called the hard question of consciousness. We don't know. It's funny. Science looks into microscopes and looks at stuff, but we don't know what is looking into the microscope. It's really kind of funny if you think about it. Like we're acquiring all this data, but that which knows the findings is itself a mystery. And that to me is why I don't

walk away from metaphor and interesting spiritual texts because we're talking about something that's very difficult to talk about. But it's what's looking out all of our eyes right now. It's not in India. It's not at the top of a mountain. It's not buried at the bottom of the sea. It's what you're experiencing right now. It couldn't be more familiar to you. Mm-hmm.

I was around a really sweet dog this past weekend. And I, you know, it doesn't have any of that higher consciousness. So it's very pure, very eager, very happy, completely in the moment. And it was kind of nice. And there's a, there was a real estate agent I met recently in the last year or so. And he doesn't watch any of the news, anything. He goes, I want to be like a dog.

I want to just be in the moment, happy. But humans, our brains go crazy. And I just feel the whole thing's a mystery. And it's so elusive. And we'll find out one day exactly what's

what happened. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what is really helpful to me and is a little less sort of highfalutin is I say, yes, thank you all day long, especially when something isn't going my way. I like to use the example of a delayed flight or something. And you're having all these feelings, the dog,

one of the things that makes a dog so beautiful is it's not really resisting its experience. You know what I mean? It's just there for it. So it's not just present when everything's good. It's, it's, it's there. Yeah. David, what's your riff, David? No, I agree. I think dogs are funny. I have a chunk now. Thanks for the setup.

You do have a dog chunk in your special, right? I do. I do. I can't believe it. A dog chunk? Of course. I like this angle of dogs. It's like when you see kids, there's something magical about kids that are really little because

There's no way to the world. They're literally minute to minute just trying to find the fun in everything and couldn't give a shit. And then the older you get, the more it's piled on. It feels like, you know, too much almost. You're like, ah, too much, too much info, too much data. Add in social media, add in the news and everyone kind of tilting a little more doomsday.

Some of the things don't come true that you're being warned about all the time. And you just say, fuck, it's just a heavy, heavy life. And you try to go through going, try to be a good person. Just a couple basic things. Try to...

Not make everyone's life harder. Try not just like when I see people out there, if I used to busboy like Dana, if you when I'm at a restaurant, you're just trying not to make the life harder that I didn't want anyone to be kissing my ass or going overboard. Just don't make my job any harder. Just be a normal person and go.

Hi, hi, whatever. You don't even need to say thanks. Just, but when I'm there, I try to, in, in real life situations, you try to go, okay, let's not make everyone's life a fucking pain in the ass. Everyone's just barely hanging on. I agree. I agree with that. We're barely, everybody is alone. You know, we're not interconnected in a way that maybe we will be in some other dimension, but you know, how do you not have empathy for people? Um, because,

because, you know, I don't, and that's hard just being alive. Yeah. Yeah. Just to get day to day, even if things go good, you're like, if you have problems, people think of like their five biggest problems. And then someone takes money away. Usually number one, money away. And they all just slide down. You go, Oh wait, that rich guy,

Isn't that happy to go? Yeah, you took money away, but now the other one slid down. Now, number one is this or health. I've noticed a lot of very wealthy people start getting really anxious about recycling. And that sounds like a bit, but like you'll never meet more ardent recyclers than the very, the uber wealthy. And it's because exactly what you're saying. I'm not worried about money anymore. I will now worry about whether or not that coffee cup is plastic coated and if it needs to go in this trash or that trash. Yeah.

Whatever your next problem is kicks down to number one. And then you go, oh, so that one's you as a human, you almost need something to think about or to fix or to go, I need this to be better and then make my life better or make someone else, you know, whatever.

Well, that's what they call it in the spiritual traditions. They call that the monkey mind, right? And what you're saying is actually quite profound is you'll never not have things to worry about. You're a human being. Yeah, you find them. And even when, you know, the three of us have been very fortunate to have some really great peak experiences in our lives and hopefully more to come, but like

We know that even those flare up and then go away. It's a little bit like being a gambling addict. You get the big win. And sometimes I'll get an email of an offer of something that if it had come in when I was 23, I would have thrown a parade. You know what I mean? And now I'm like, ah, it's in May. You know what I mean? Like some gong. Right, yeah.

So again, I guess one of the reasons I'm interested in spirituality is it's like, if we can get all those things to settle down, all of those things are coming and going. Your happy moments and your sad moments, your anxiety, but there's something that was consistent. Your experience has been consistent. There's always been a sense of being myself. And when you look at

what you essentially are, meaning those things that come and go can't be essentially who you are. So what was there the whole time? Your being. And then when you look at the quality of your being, you see that it itself is peaceful and happy. That's better than what I was going to say. I was going to say that sometimes you go, if I do this thing, oh, when I host Saturday Night Live next week, that's going to be really fun. And then you start to say,

When I'm driving to get gas, I go, this is actually the real life. So you keep thinking of something else, but you're like, this is 99% of my day, just doing normal things. So this is the part everybody's just being happy in. You just go, I just want to be okay right now because this is really the life part. The minutiae little things. Am I content here? Because of course there's peaks, right?

Well, yeah. Well, you know, Ram Dass talked about this, right? You eat ice cream. So you're hosting SNL next week, which is awesome. That's an ice cream cone, but the human temperament is okay. I've had ice cream. Now I want some water, you know, and now I want to now, and now I'm bored and I want TV and now I'm tired and I want to sleep and now I'm awake and I want coffee. This is your life. So you're absolutely right. We need to like slow down and drop into our lives and enjoy. And that's what yes. Thank you. Is it's like,

when David does SNL and now you're like, well, what are people going to say about it? Instead of being mad at that, you can go just like the dog. The dog is unfolding lawfully and being a dog perfectly. David, you're going to be David perfectly. You can allow that and even, you know, forgive that. You're like, this is just what it is. But if we can find little moments of quiet, even as we're talking right now, if you can just kind of find a stillness behind the conversation and go, Oh,

Oh, that's the place where it's enough that it doesn't matter how it goes. I'm sure it'll be fantastic. But like today is just like, this is your real life. This is the part where you go after that's done. I'm right back here. And this is, it's not so bad. So, well, you don't want to postpone your happiness. I don't want to go. I'll be happy. That's kind of what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I nail this podcast, then I can feel good about myself. I'll get a certain exhilaration from doing this show with you guys because

But that that's, it's a fool's errand to keep going. Oh, and then I'll kill it at Irvine. And then I'll kill it tomorrow morning with my coffee. Like try to just say yes to what it's that that's a big, that's a big one. And even that you botched this podcast, you still, you know, well, that's the trap, right? If I say I'll be happy that I did well, I have to be unhappy that I botched. Yeah. That's, that's just a dumb scale to put your worthiness on.

I think helping other people is a kind of nice way to get out of your own head. Yeah, for sure. Whether it's your wife, your child, or the club owner. Can you do five more minutes or any little thing that you're focused on helping somebody? I think it's really useful. I agree. And I want to do it anyway. Totally. The best shows I was going to say are the ones where I remember –

Where I just take a little moment to think about everything they had to do to get there. And like you said, David, the five big problems that they have. Everybody here has those five slots filled. And then when you see- They're never empty, really. They're never empty. Yeah, you're right. One goes out, number six drops down. Okay, now I'm in line. Now I'm in the topic.

And then one of the great things about laughing and laughing together is something, you know, there's something magical about releasing that tension. And there's a way you can release it with other people around you that you can't do it. You know, that's what sort of makes our phones so powerful.

in a way awful is that you're, it's a methadone. It's like a synthetic lonely version of something that I think is much better when we're, you know, touching elbows with strangers and letting it out. I mean, the flip side to careerism is just sort of, you know, later on as I was going down this journey of being a standup or a comedian, um,

People would come up and say to me, oh, I really needed that, you know, and I didn't quite appreciate it as much till later on. That's really what we're doing here. Even right now, we're just trying to make life a little easier, a little lighter for everybody. And I do think when a peer group takes one of your bits, either of you,

and you understand that that's a touchstone for them, that they'll quote you. And that's, that's like a communication device for peer group. That is the most flattering thing. Me and my friends do this once a month or whatever. Those kinds of compliments you like, Oh, that's, that's really cool. Cause that's what I had with Monty Python, you know, with friends. So fun. Yeah. The first time data, the first time I did stand up, I was, I think I was 20 or 21. Um,

And I rented out a little restaurant. Again, one of those things I didn't know any better. So I just was like, I've never done standup. I'm going to do 45 minutes of standup. I'm just going to do it first time. And even worse, I'm going to invite everyone I know to come and watch like just a nightmare. I wouldn't do that today. My,

My parents are there. We're filming it so I could give it to clubs. But the reason I mention it, it went fine, actually. It went well. They were so supportive. I know. I know. I should have bombed. All my friends just not laughing. But they were so supportive. They gave me a standing ovation, which isn't because I was so excellent. It's because they really were trying to, like...

Go, go, go. Yeah. Help. They were trying to help. Yeah. And they did. Nice. But the first time I did stand up, Dana, I, one of the laughs I got was, I said, not going to do it. I said it in my set obviously was unplanned, but I was like, yep, that's not happening. Not going to do it. And it gets this big laugh. And I was like, whoops, that's not mine. Yeah.

That counts as your laugh. Anybody can have that. Well, I know, but it's not that I stole it, but it didn't feel as good as writing something for myself. But you were in my very, very first stand-up set ever. Isn't that wild? That's flattering. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah, inexplicable bits, not just for myself, for you guys that are nonsensical. They're not really one and one is two. They're sort of off kilter.

like a lot of, a lot of David's throwaways, little things, uh, they last longer in a weird way. The quirky, because you can't ever, it's like trying to catch the wind, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Unscripted lines and movies are sort of little throwaways from Caddyshack or old movies. Well, David, you were in the sketch. It's, it's Farley's line, but my wife and I say, lay off me. I'm starving. Maybe every day. It's the main thing we say to one another. It's like,

we're just constant. We're like food people and we're just eating. And someone's like, you're really going to have all that. Just lay off me. That is,

I think that is the ultimate. I'm agreeing with you guys. That's the ultimate compliment is if your comedy can somehow be infused and incorporated. And it goes back to what you were saying into daily life, not just into something you do sometimes. And you don't know what it is. And you do sketch in a room there with people and they go, okay, commercial go. And they push this gap girl sketch out and you're going. And years later, you're saying that a line that just was passing in a sketch is like mind boggling.

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I'm looking for something to eat. I don't want to make anything. And do you know what cachava is? Cachava? Yep. It's like energy drink. It's a shake. It's a to-go thing. If you want to get some nourishment, you want to go just, you know, you don't have tons of time. There's chocolate. There's chocolate flavor. You can put a little oat milk in it.

frozen banana, spoonful of peanut butter, you know, stuff like this. It's super healthy. And I just got it in the mail and I'm like, where was it yesterday? Because this is what I do in the day. I pop in, I'm very busy, Dana. Lots going on. Yeah, I talked to your publicist. I know I make you call them. No, you are busy. And this is for busy, busy people who doesn't want a very healthy, delicious drink.

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Goji berries, maca root, right? Mm-hmm. It's easy, it's delicious, and it keeps you full for hours. And if you've ever tried green papaya,

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Why would this one be a sensation? You know what I mean? It was Farley, which is a trick. So if you have Farley and he's in a wig and he's drops his voice from a female and chokes me, and it's about French fries. It's just funny. And you have Sandler in a wig too, which is funny. Going, you guys. Yeah. And then, but if it gets a laugh in there, you're just relieved that it worked. And now they're going to weekend update and everyone's running and changing. Yeah.

And so then you, things get picked out of shows like Dana knows you don't know what they like. You don't know what I look.

And history remembers the winners or whatever. I'm like, I could sew. And I mean, this is a compliment that sketch could not have worked. It might not have worked. And we just never know. Like you still don't. That's what makes it wrong. So you get it barely right. And you hit it right on air, which is not always the case. You do better in dress than an air. You just go, God, can I just walk in one more time? Because I just didn't, it didn't come off in the right energy. It's just,

And you go, nope, that's it. We're doing it. And then you go, that was an okay sketch. And you go, God, the one that everyone would have loved was two hours ago, but you nailed it perfectly. So that's just, that's, that's part of the fun crap shoot of SNL. But we know in movies in life, you just throw a joke, weird things that happen.

Pluck them out of the atmosphere. Yeah. It's endless. It is great. We'll never solve a comedy. It's always humbling. I thought that would kill it bombed and this, this worked or whatever. It's always full of surprises. So you're on tour. Yeah. And it was going to be called the PG 13 tour. And then you switch the name out.

Yes. Which was actually, you know, that's sort of a layover, a carryover from my youth and my religious days and this sort of tender...

I don't want to say pathetic, but like, it's sweet. I'm like, oh, maybe I could do a tour that my parents would like. You know what I mean? I'm like, wouldn't it be fun? I'll do it. It's called the PG-13 tour. And the hour that I was writing was just kind of coming together less dirty than the other ones. And it still is not filthy. But then I did it one time in Austin and I was like, this is...

It felt like doing it underwater or something. I hate the feeling. We're talking about how precious laughter is. I hate the feeling of knowing I could put on these brass knuckles and really smack them in the face, but instead I'm going to hold back

to like stay in a box that I created. They didn't even ask me to do it. So I was like, we're not, we're not doing, I did it one time and I was like, I'm never doing that again. Some, some people like,

Like Nate Bargatze, who's a favorite of mine. He just is that guy. And I saw him say when he gets cut off in traffic, he's like, golly, you know, when people cut me off in traffic, I say the worst things you've ever heard in your life. And that's me. I want to be me. I want to hit as hard as I can. I don't want to get off stage like you on my podcast, Dana. I want to leave it all.

And I'm constantly taking the temperature of the audience. Do you want it to be a little more wicked? Do you want it to be a little bit sillier? Do you want me to be louder? Do you want, I'll do it any, whatever, but I can't go, well, I can't say fuck because I called this tour. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. It's so stupid. You're right. It's also so hard. You can maybe do that clean set seven 30 on a Thursday, but then it's like late show Friday. Sometimes you need to be like, come on guys, wake the,

up like you yeah yeah yeah like a teacher sure fucking shut up like you need that and it's not filthy it's just you weave it into your act where no one walks away going that was a dirty act but you just kind of weave it into jokes where they don't even notice it and it's just fine i i get that all the time people are like i like that you're a clean comic and i'm like i'm not a clean not really

But they think you are. And that's why I think the metric is wrong. We think clean comedy is comedy where you don't say shit, fuck, piss, whatever. And dirty comedy is where you do. And I'm like, no, I've seen...

comedy that passes that test of cleanliness that is deeply flawed and ugly, like mean spirited and the message underneath it. And I'll defend their right to say that, but it's just not for me. I'm like, wow, that is a really toxic message. And then I get up and I'm being a silly, floppy, dumb, golden retriever boy, just trying to delight everybody. And yes, I sometimes say swears and sometimes I talk about sex or whatever it might be,

But the intent really matters to me. And I think you can feel that because I've seen some really filthy comedy that was squeaky clean, if that makes sense. Sure.

And I've seen filthy comedy that I would call clean. I think main thing is not to, not to lean on it. You know, like you could, you don't need to be blue all the time or not blue all the time. You know, it's just, you just weave it in. It's not one or the other. Well, it's a seasoning. Yeah. It's a seasoning. I'm not like. Don't abuse it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, go see Pete Holmes on the road. This guy. Yeah.

Thanks for hanging with us. What was your last statement? Sorry. I just want to, it was the last thing on the cleanliness and thank you for the plug. Seinfeld was like swearing is like steroids. It's like cheating. I love Seinfeld because I think Seinfeld really is that guy.

He goes, swearing is like steroids. And I'm like, yeah. And I want to hit a lot of home runs. Give me the steroids. I will do anything to delight the audience until they're red in the face and forgetting those five problems. I agree. Including, I don't mean cheat other human beings, but I will cheat. I will swear. I will spit. I will cuss. I'll do whatever it takes because...

Life is hard, life is lonely, life is painful, and we need this release, we need this art form. So yeah, it's steroids, and I'm Barry Bonds, man. - I'm glad we did that. - I wouldn't wanna follow you. I don't know if I followed you once or you followed me, but yeah, it was lonely. You're very, very powerful in a very funny, funny, funny way. - I've seen him kill, I've seen him kill. - You have a lot of weapons and a lot of things you're doing that's very powerful.

I just want comedians to be who they are. That's really all it is. That's it. Sorry, David. You wanted to wrap it up. Go ahead. Well, we actually have a call that we have to make. I don't know why, you know, about podcasting or something. It's just. Okay. And Dana's falling apart, obviously. I'm at 2%, but I feel pretty good. I enjoyed this podcast. I enjoyed it. I do.

It was a great chat, though, Pete. You're a good dude. I will see you at Largo. I hope so. Thank you both. All right, Dana, don't hang up right away. This has been a presentation of Odyssey. Please follow, subscribe, leave a like, a review, all this stuff, smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts. Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss-Berman of Odyssey, and Heather Santoro. The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.