Questions For QBs in NEW Places: Sam Darnold, JJ McCarthy, Shedeur Sanders & More! | Football 301
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On this episode of Football 301, Charles McDonald and Matt Harmon join me for some new quarterback faces and new places. We look at new starters, quarterbacks that have switched spots, the musical chairs of all the quarterback spots and locations, and all those new faces that have filled them, even the battles. So it might be some multiple faces looking at you, Pittsburgh, looking at you, New York. We're going to talk about all those teams, how they fit, what questions we might have, what we want to see.

these play callers, these new spots. Very fun show with the guys. See you guys in a sec. Hey, everyone. It's Ariel Helwani, and I wanted to let you know that over on Uncrowned, in partnership with Yahoo Sports, we are doing incredible things Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and sometimes Saturday as well. We focus on the wild and wacky world of MMA Monday through Wednesday. It's the Ariel Helwani Show live on YouTube at 1 p.m. Eastern on Thursdays

My guys, the boys in the back, they're live also at 1 p.m. Eastern to talk about everything going on in the world of mixed martial arts. And then on Friday, we take you into the weekend with The Crack with Pete C. Carroll. Also, 1 p.m. Eastern live on YouTube. Now, you can get all our shows on our official podcast feed as well. And don't forget, during every UFC pay-per-view, we've got a watch party and a post-show as well. It's madness over at Uncrowned. Come hang with us.

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Learn more and get yours now at NewBalance.com slash football. Hello and welcome to Football 301. I'm your host, Nate Tice. Very fun show for you today. We're tying it all together. We did new faces in new places last week. Now we're going to do quarterbacks in new places or at least new starters in the same or new places. And some of those are

competitions so we're going to talk about a few different guys looking at you cleveland look kind of looking at you new york but also some new starters like cam war the number one pick tyler shuck apparently in new orleans sam darnold seattle gino smith and las vegas plenty of cool quarterbacks to talk about today how they fit with the new teams what it might look like questions we might have we're going to get to all of it and to help me do that are my guys first and foremost matt harman mr reception perception how you doing today matt

I'm doing great. I'm excited to talk about these conversations because I have been thinking a lot about quarterback and receiver fit. I mean, I'm kind of always thinking about that, but I've been thinking about it a lot lately as I've been working through the year two wide receivers. I don't know if some of these guys might come up here and there, but yeah, always interested to find how these guys fit within the whole offensive ecosystem, but certainly especially with those pass catchers.

Oh, yeah. There's a couple I'm excited to pick your brain at because I just want to hear what your thoughts on about it, but also here to talk about these new quarterbacks and maybe ask some questions about his own team is Mr. Horvitz, Mr. Horvitz himself, Charles McDonald. How you doing today, Chuck?

We're doing good. I kind of didn't realize until the meeting we had the other day, like when you see the list of how many guys are in new spots, we kind of did play musical chairs a little bit with this quarterback room. So interesting where you guys are and where the audience is once we get to the end of it. Double digits. I know my initial list, I was like, oh, we have at least five or six things we can talk about. And then we got into that meeting and

Like Stone was bringing up somebody, you guys brought up somebody. I was like, oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Like, you know, but that's how it feels. Like there's so many open seats and they got filled up quickly. And that's going to lead to one of the teams we talked about, really the only remaining seat and the name that we talked about a bunch, but that'll be at the end of the show. So we'll get to there, but we're going to start first because, you know, the NFL can't help themselves. They leak.

this out they want to make an event they want to do a pre-release to the release of the schedule but the nfl has started trickling out some of the schedules or some of the games for 2025 uh the international slate is already out there that's my only observation about this is that the vikings are taking back-to-back international games one in dublin one in london which i actually

I actually kind of get because they're also both technically away or neutral site games. So I don't know. And they're both AFC North teams. So I actually kind of like that. And it's also like a team on the West Coast. So just kind of a little inside baseball or inside football, I guess, going from West Coast to East Coast or East Coast to West Coast. Those teams generally will travel two days before. So if we play Sunday, we travel Friday instead of Saturday.

but also if those teams stay on the opposite coast. Like when I was with the Raiders, we played the Jaguars and then we played the Bucs in back-to-back weeks. So what we did is we just stayed out in Florida for the entire week in Sarasota, which was, you know,

quite quite nice at the Ritz for a week but we practiced at the IMG Academy we did all that but I actually kind of like this it was almost like a team playing on a coast and just doing that type of schedule so that's really my only observation I have with the schedule so far I just want to see all the games and go oh yeah that's interesting because after a couple weeks I'll forget about what all of them are until we get to September but you guys have any thoughts on the release of the schedules this whole bit that the NFL keeps leaning into any thoughts anything that comes to mind Matt Charles

have the floor here it could be quick could be long could be whatever uh i have nothing

I figured. I also do not have much. I actually got to get this off my chest because is this a safe space to say that I don't care about every team's social media putting out their scheduled release video? I'm not the type of person that, okay, if you care about it, if you like it, go for it. I'm not saying, you're an idiot because you care. If you like that stuff,

That's great. I just like, I was having a conversation with the producer on the fantasy show today, Colin about like, he's like, do you want to rank your, your, your favorite team social media release videos? I'm like, dude, I'm not going to watch any of those. And some of this is a, some of the, any of them, any of them? No, no, I'm not. I'm probably unless, unless it like is forced upon me, I'm, I'm probably not going to watch any of them because I,

Honestly, this is maybe more of a me thing. If a video... And this is so bad and my brain is so rotted. But if a video is longer than a minute...

And I'm not sure that I'm going to care about it. I'm not going to watch it. If I know that I'm going to care about it, if it's a freaking 30-minute video on how to smoke the best bone-in beef ribs, I'm watching every damn second of it. But if it's a five-minute video on a scheduled release, I probably don't care. So I'm just going to pass on the whole thing. This explains a lot about your movie viewing.

Like this, this explains a lot. You, you, you need like a James Bond opening credits for you to be like, yep, I'm in. Yeah. Like, you know, start it with a freaking bang. If it's, if I, if that, if it's not a banger in the first three minutes,

I'm out. Otherwise, I'm just going to watch like a 21 minute episode of New Girl that I've seen 35 times because I can handle that from your attention span perspective. Walking, talking YouTube algorithm. That's okay. Yeah. Catcher. The interest right here. Right.

Here's how you got to look at the schedule release videos. It's like when a popular artist comes out with an album and you see it's like it's 32 songs. You're like, well, I don't want to listen to all 32, but maybe in a day I'll come back after people have sifted through all of it and I'll just listen to the hits. So you just find the ones that people are boosting, usually just the Chargers and maybe one other team, and you just watch that. I'm not watching all 32, but the ones that other people are watching, I'll check out those.

Chuck went with the Napster view of this. Yeah, we'll find the best one. We'll go from there. Someone else will find this one. The Titans video a couple years ago was probably the best. And ever since then, I'm like, yeah, whatever. I think that's the only one I've actually seen. I think that is the only one I have actually seen start to finish because it was good and people are still talking about it today. You know, so I mean, like, I've seen that one, but I literally think that's it. Right. I think that's it. Yeah, I

I, my little, you know, my seven years of living in Seattle is giving me a little bit of hipster. So I kind of always just have that little bit of like, when a thing becomes a thing, I kind of like I'm over it. You know, like there's like no shape November became a thing. Well, then now it's like all these social media teams are epicking out, epicking each other and one upping each other. And then it's like, ah, it's a thing now.

I'm out. I'm out. So, yeah, I agree. I agree a little bit with you guys, but I did quite, I did quite literally host a host, a segment on NFL network called fantasy hipsters. So we're,

where there's probably something there from a history see it was always meant to be it's always meant to be uh but let's get to the meat and potatoes of this with the quarterbacks the pretty boys uh we're gonna start first and foremost with the guys that we think are more definitively the new faces in a new place or the new starter at these locations so we're gonna start off really with a only relevant piece of news that's happened in the last week with the nfl and that's derrick carr retired

I made a big injury. I made some, you know, maybe some undersold or underwhelmed fan base in New Orleans and maybe team in New Orleans after he got signed there, after we were going for the Raiders. I was actually around Derek a lot.

not a lot for two years at the start of his career in Oakland. I had a really fun 2016 season with that really fun offensive line, 2017, not so fun. And then we got grudinized and we got wiped out, but Derek was always to me kind of that epitome of the cousins tier as people like to put it, you know, it was Jimmy G was a part of this at one point, but you know, cousins and Derek Carr, that above average starter that you can win games with him, but how good is he actually when he doesn't have a great ecosystem? And I always thought that was kind of the,

defining element of his career that he was always kind of part of that tier. Sometimes it looked better, sometimes it looked worse, but he was really, really always impacted by that ecosystem, but always just had some had some nice qualities as a starter. Also had some frustrating qualities. I'll say to that. I think New Orleans is like, all right, let's move on with this, especially with the new coaching staff. They drafted Tyler Shuck from Louisville this year, Louisville slash Oregon slash Texas Tech.

Spencer Rattler is also on the roster, drafted him on day three last year. Spencer Rattler is also somehow still a year younger than Tyler Shuck, even though he got drafted last year. But that just kind of shows you how old Tyler Shuck is. But he apparently, you know, this coaching staff anointed, hey, Shuck is our guy. We're taking him on day two.

Matt, what do you think of Chuck could look like in New Orleans? What do you think this Kellen Moore Saints offense could look like with a young quarterback? I put young in quotations here. A first-year starting quarterback in New Orleans. And really with this whole offense and the receiver room, the tight end room, the Saints are just such a funky team. So what do you think of the start of the Chuck era, I think, in New Orleans? Kind of actually works. There's a pun there with...

with what the oysters and stuff like there was shocking, but yeah, keep going. Sorry to catch you up. Yeah. If he's good, that'll maybe catch on and you, and people can say, Hey, back to hipsters. Like we heard it first here on football 301. We were first on the oyster shuck thing. There you go. But I think that, I think this is really interesting. Derek Carr retiring, you know, I don't really want to eulogize his career too much. Cause I have a sense that we're going to see Derek Carr in the NFL again. I think this was a retirement. Yes. Yes.

like the, the betting odds on Derek Carr on retiring at some point are terrible. They've got to be, because I think this was like a creative, convenient way for the team and player to divorce. Because I think the only person that wanted Derek Carr to still be the quarterback of the new Orleans saints was the

the general manager of the new orleans saints but i do think the coaching staff and not even derrick carr i do think the coaching staff was looking forward to uh working with some of these younger guys here and i'm fascinated to watch this because i don't have like a good grasp on what a kellen moore offense is because we saw him we saw him be the primary office coordinator in dallas for a number of years but then mike mccarthy came in and kept kellen moore and they kind of sort of

split the baby a little bit there, you know, sort of split the duties. It was some of Mike's offense. It was some of Kellen's offense. And then, of course, when they decided to move on from Kellen Moore, then it was all the bad things that were going wrong, you know, throwing the ball over the yard, all this stuff. That was obviously just Kellen. That wasn't me, Mike McCarthy. He goes to Los Angeles. They have kind of a disastrous season because of injuries, especially at the skill position players and along the offensive line. I'm not sure that we learned all that much about Kellen Moore there. And then, obviously, last year at the Philadelphia Eagles,

We've talked about it a ton. Every offense just becomes the Jalen Hurts offense. So I am interested in seeing what these receivers, specifically a guy like Chris Olave, like where he lines up, where he's deployed in this offense, if and when he is healthy enough to be on the field. Because I do think that

what we prior to Clint Kubiak coming in here it was under discussed that there was basically just the same offense for two decades in New Orleans I think it had run really stale especially once you took the figurehead Sean Payton out of the mix here so I think we could see a lot of like favorable looks for these talented and fast wide receivers at least the top two guys on the depth chart and I think Shuck you know just how he kind of becomes the quarterback here and this will

ultimately inform like who Kellen Moore is the play caller because at least for me maybe people disagree at least for me I think I'm still like kind of exploring who that identity is Charles what do you think is a fair

expectation for this year? Assuming Shuck is the starter, what do you think is a fair expectation for New Orleans this year? That you're like, I know you're a Falcons fan, but just even putting your national analyst hat on. But what do you think is like, hey, this would be a good season for them. And I'm not even saying playoffs or anything, just like a good taste in their mouth once the season ends. I think given everything we know about Shuck and where the Saints are right now, like a 7-10 season where...

He looks like a top 20-ish quarterback, maybe, because the age throws it off, right? Yeah.

There should be no circumstance where he's sitting behind Spencer Rattler or Jake Hayner by the time the season comes up. Because I think if that happens, you can probably just write it off to a dub and you've got to find another guy. So I would imagine that he would be starting all 17 games as long as he's healthy. So I think I'm going to put maybe a little bit of a higher expectation on him, maybe because he's played...

seven years in college and he's coming in as an older prospect. But if you get to the end of the season and you're looking at like, okay, we went 7-10, we had just enough offense to kind of get where we want to go and push for a playoff spot in the NFC South, which as we saw last year, 7-10 does push for a playoff spot in the NFC South. It's probably going to be a little bit better this year. If you look like a baseline confident offense, you're flirting with like top 20 passing efficiency, that's

probably a win for the Saints this year yeah like competency like that's really what it is because yeah even if they go 7 and 10 too I mean I looking at next year's quarterback class I I know everyone this is a famous thing but it is an interesting class like I would consider like

There's two and a half, maybe three and a half real first rounders at this point in time. It might be more depending on with Arch Manning, depending on other things too. Arch Manning is worthy of a first round selection. I'll even say it after 90 something pass attempts, but he might next year. So, but that I think seven times very reasonable that Chuck, if Chuck were 22, I'd be like real, like, Oh, this could be cool. Like this could be interesting, but that's the thing. It's like,

it's you said you had higher expectations charles and that's it seems unfair but that's the name of the game if you're gonna be a 26 year old rookie is that you better be confident right away like if they say oh man we really have to guide this guy along and grow him well okay he's a backup you know like that i know that's not fair to say in freaking may we haven't even seen him play preseason or anything but if like they're like oh yeah we really gotta guide him along and everything it's like why'd you take him like you take a 26 year old on day two to like play like to like

be a guy, especially of this timeline that they're on right now. Otherwise they are looking at next year's class, which wouldn't be kind of the worst thing that you get a guy with talent. Chuck can be the backup because he's already backups career backup age. You'd be 27 next year. But with no coaching staff tied to Rattler, you know, they're going to really try and make Chuck work. I can tell. I actually think that's funny that there's actually some similarities between Chuck and Derek Carr, positive and negative.

uh you know actually real arm talent can do some things actually has a good understanding of offenses also has an aversion to getting hit so uh so but still while being a pretty good athlete maybe not the best creator but good thrower on the move and everything actually shuck does just night things with his arm slot and everything but he is allergic to getting hit i think it's some of the injuries he's taken over the year and i think just some of the coaching he's had over the years so i think that's kind of like a funny comparison between the two players but

I think 7-10 is fair though, Charles, especially where this team's at. I think it's just more, most like vibes. It's like,

do we have some young guys we feel good about is chris alave healthy the whole year is the offensive line can they stay healthy the whole year because the offensive line could be good if they're healthy the whole year like do we just have a uh an identity that works like i think that's it's more of like a philosophical win than anything and i think shuck is a big part of that if like he shows that he's at least decent like you say 20th 18th somewhere that 18 to 22 range you're i

I think you're okay. I think you can consider that win and you can assess if you want to go to quarterback the next year. But this offense, starting with your point, Matt, too, is the quarterback stuff I'm still trying to figure out. Or I'm sorry, the offense I'm still trying to figure out because it's such a

merger or hybrid offense that kellen moore's always had it's kind of like a traditional nfl offense they got some sean payton in there which actually should feel familiar in new orleans so i'm curious to how it does unfold under this offense or under this quarterback and this personnel all right moving on to the quarterback that was selected first one one

Only guy I had a first-round grade on as well. Cam Ward, selected by the Tennessee Titans, the world's quietest number one selection. If a quarterback gets drafted number one overall and there's no one around to watch it, did it actually happen? But no, I'm actually really excited to see Cam Ward and Tennessee Charles. Kind of a similar question, though. What do you think that...

Callahan, the Titans offense, the new offensive line or reconfigured offensive line, I should say, what looks like a successful year or what looks like a good version of what Cam Ward's rookie year could look like?

This is a... I find myself seven years out of not watching the Falcons play a playoff game to not want to say this, but it can't get much worse than last year. I mean... I mean, they had such a strange season, right? Where the defense for, I think it was the first 10 or 11 games, their second success rate for the season and the offense was just...

you know, doing their thing where Will Levis is coming in and shooting his toes off one at a time. Then you have Mason Rudolph is like,

Mason Rudolph is like your steady hand, you know? So anything that's not that is a big improvement. The one area I guess I got a little concerned with with this Titans offense is maybe the wide receiver room. Because I don't really know what to think of Calvin Ridley at this point. And Tyler Lockett, you know, you're just kind of at that point with him where any year could be the year that it falls off. But you're looking at a team that at least...

They should have a quality offensive line. We talked about it before. They've acquired a bunch of guys who are at least quality starters. Flipping J.C. Latham over to the right side. They should be able to run the ball with the offensive line they have and hopefully a little bit of pressure off that run game with what Cam Ward brings to the table. I guess with Cam, I just want to see

it's going to get compressed at times. It's going to get tough at times, but I just want to see what made him so much fun at Miami is just keep firing. Keep shooting down the field. You're going to throw interceptions. You're going to make mistakes. Based on what we know about him, I don't really see that being a problem, but the wide receiver room is just a...

bit of a question mark with where Ridley and Lockett are in their careers. But I think, you know, the good thing is they should have competent offensive line plays. Everyone stays healthy and that can do, you know, just as much as a quality wide receiver can, if not more. Matt, where are you at with Calvin Ridley? Actually, I know we've kind of tinkered and have some minor conversations with them, but what do you think of Ridley at this day and age?

I actually think Ridley had a pretty nice year. He was eighth in yards per out run against man coverage, which feels like a minor miracle when we're talking about that quarterback room. And I mean, he definitely had some disastrous games there.

Again, from a production standpoint. I remember the one game he had. I can't remember the opponent, but he had eight targets and zero catches. And you go back and look at some of those targets, where they were from Will Levis, and it was just...

like those are targets you know he's like the guy in the vicinity but it's just not close so the fact that he was able to be productive last year in this environment especially when deandre hopkins got traded they basically just built the offense and like how can they get calvin ridley the ball um and and it was like on downfield targets too it wasn't like mickey mouse stuff so i'm i'm encouraged to see him uh and cam ward work well together and then the rest of the guys in the room like

I like all of the dart throws that they threw at the wide receiver position in the draft. Like they got Alec Iomaner, who's more of an X receiver. And I mean, Ridley was not used like an X last year, nor do I think he should be. I think they should move him to flank or move him around the formation. DK brings them some speed. He was the guy that they took actually before Iomaner. And then Xavier Restrepo is an undrafted free agent, obviously reuniting with Cam Ward. I feel like

Restrepo is going to make that roster. And like if he had didn't run a 4-8, he was he was going to get drafted. So I kind of maybe one of those guys is an immediate hit. Maybe two of them are long term hits. I kind of like just throwing those darts and like, yeah, I'm with Charles. We'll see what title lock it is. But I do think that Calvin Ridley can be the type of guy that a young quarterback leans on and just says, hey, this guy is getting the ball 130 times this year from a target perspective. And we'll see how that works out.

Yeah, I've kind of actually liked the fit there more as I've kind of marinated on it. Like him and Ridley kind of balance each other, you know, really such a finesse player. Like, you know, he's so speed and twitchy and great route running and all that. And Aomander is...

My one-liner is the best blocking receiver you'll ever watch, and that's really all you need to know. It couldn't be any more. His skills are a little... He has the weirdest drops, but he has some strengths to his game. I think ideally he's a real good three for you, but this is where the Titans are at these days, where I think he could do some dirty work stuff. DK could be a fun deep ball guy, stretch the offense, open up the offense a little bit, which is nice because then you don't need Ridley to do that.

you know, you can have Ridley actually get the targeted routes on this. So it's not ideal. They obviously, I think they need truly one, one more guy there, but it's interesting actually how you're just describing all the rookies are interesting. Like it's not bad. It's not a bad room. It's just,

I would say below average, but it's just, if those guys can play, it's not a bad room, but obviously, right. Yes. In theory, I like mystery boxes, Matt, you know, so I, I just want to see the mystery boxes sometimes. Um, and then I actually like the tight end room. I, I am the one person that has Josh Wiley stock, um,

um and then chig is a really fun dynamic tight end but i think they can use it almost as a power slot de facto receiving tight end move around guy even more if they haven't if they're not comfortable with how their receivers are at so there's some interesting stuff it's just nice that they have a good line where at least i think it's going to be at the very least above average like that at the very least it's top 15. so i i think that is what's got me most optimistic about how this could all look one question i have though

or at least this is, this is rhetorical, uh, is just really more what, uh, how much gun they use and how much under center they use. Uh, Cam Ward, Cam Ward here, here's Cam Ward's career under center rates in college 0.1%.

at incarnate word 0.2 at wazoo then 2.4 is second year wazoo then 4 4.1 last year in miami last year the titans were about league average they were 26 and change league average is 30 so a little below average 26 and change uh under center rate ranked 20th

So that is one thing I'm curious if, because Bill Callahan is going to want to be under center, their offensive line coach, just to tie everything together. So I think developing Cam, his comfort level there, Cam's got a little bit of a ball of clay. He's kind of one of those guys that's like, he hasn't been taught to do this because he just hasn't had to. So I'm curious how they tie in, merge that gun-heavy, quick-throwing, Cam Ward, let him be a decision-maker, let him make it.

create some stuff along with the kind of the under center run game under center play action game and really one of my theories this year is that we see more true under center drop backs with no play action i think we're going to see more of that league wide just to kind of break some tendencies too but that's a that's a topic for another time uh but yeah just curious how they kind of unfold this personnel but moving on going all the way to the west coast

Sam Darnold, who is now the starting quarterback for the Seattle Seahawks. And this is something I feel like we've talked a lot about the Seahawks. I feel like I've talked a lot about the Seahawks. Keep shoehorning them in. Also, I think a big part of that and kind of one of the jokes we've had is like, well, it seems like Clint Kubiak's got carte blanche there to kind of do what he wants. And that look at the quarterback. The Sam Darnold is a Shanahan Kubiak quarterback. So that makes a lot of sense. But Charles,

I'm the optimist here with this offense and everything. Throw cold water on it. Why could this look as maybe not as rosy as maybe a picture that I may be painting about the Seahawks offense? Or maybe concerns that you have with Darnold, this offensive fit, or just really the Seahawks infrastructure? Um...

It's weird to watch. I feel like you usually say this about quarterbacks who aren't as physically talented as Sam, but Sam, I think it's fair to say Sam is as good as the players around him, ultimately. That's what his output's going to be. When the Vikings' offense was healthy and the offensive line was humming, obviously you got Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison,

And it looked like he looked like a probable offense. But we were having conversations last year on if the Vikings should keep Sam Darnold and figure out, you know, a trade partner for JJ McCarthy. And then the offensive line got hurt and Sam looks like a disaster. You know, he's not going to be the guy that

Really, you know, that consistently carries the offense on his shoulders, which is funny because at times like he can like he does have the arm strength and the athleticism to make like some of those plays that really make you go, wow, like, man, if you could do that all the time, you you would probably still be with the Jets. But he doesn't do it all the time. And that's that's why we're here. So I just get concerned, honestly,

It's the offensive line. There's still a work in progress there. Obviously, the table pick was nice. Charles Cross is a solid player, but still got some work to be done there. But I think the biggest concern outside of that is I just don't like the construction of where they're at at wide receiver just yet. I mean, we've talked about before the Cooper Cup, the

uh jackson smith and jake buffett it's a little awkward and i just don't even know if cooper cup is a player that like you need to be seeking out when you're trying to rebuild the team so i i do think sam's a fine starter um i think he can be confident in the right situation i think clint kubiak is going to be a good play caller i just don't know if they have the talent to actually see this thing through where uh they don't get stuck in the mud uh more weeks than not i i'm going to kind of give you a little

I don't know if it's harder, but it's more kind of scheme question here, Matt.

How do you ideally use this receiver room? And how do you ideally use these skill players? Like, cause that is something that's in all of our heads. Cause we always mentioned it. We all, all of us, even me, who's optimistic about it. I'm like, I didn't love that signing. I did not like, I really did not. And I've liked other moves they did, but how would you actually get the most out of everybody? Cup, MVS, JSN, Horton, the tight ends, who I'm actually excited about as well. But how do you envision, envision like, okay, this is the best version of this.

Yeah, a lot of condensed formations to kind of hide the fact that we don't have a true perimeter player because...

I think you can do some things where Cup and JSN like I said if they're both condensed like tight to the line and JSN's the outside receiver off ball and Cup is the slot receiver on the line like I think you I think you can get away with that um and make both of those guys hard to press the pro like I don't actually have too many concerns about JSN being an outside player like he's not going to be he's not going to be your ex-receiver he's not going to be running like

you know, deep vertical routes or anything like that, but he can be an outside receiver. He's always been a guy that I've been really high on in terms of like his ability to, to win and separate against man coverage. But cup at this point, man, I,

I'm with Charles. It's beyond the fact that, oh, how do we line him up? Is he even a useful player anymore, I think, based on who he was last year? Maybe that's a little too harsh. I think he could be a useful player. I think he can specifically get open in the flat and just be like, oh, when Sam's brain starts to break down because of pressure, that guy's going to be there and he's going to catch the ball and we just move on to another play. But consistently impacting the game, I think that's –

I think that's questionable at this point with Cooper Cup. Like I just to be to be brutally honest, I just don't know that that signing is going to work out all of that. All that. Well, I think he'll be there for one year and that will probably be it. Like that's about where he is at this point. So I think you can do some things with condensed formations to kind of hide those guys.

And then hopefully Torrey Horton's good, but Torrey Horton's a fifth-round pick. We like Torrey Horton, but they drafted him in the fifth round. You're asking a lot there. And he's also a guy that only lined up on one side of the field and comes from a lower level. It's not as if like, oh, yeah, he was –

a banged up guy from LSU and he's played a lot of pro-style stuff. Even if he went in the third round where I thought he could go, it's probably like you need a season to get that guy up to bat. So then basically MVS is your sacrificial X receiver here. And honestly, beyond the wide receiver room,

I don't even really know how the hell this backfield is going to play out because the whole talking point with, oh, we hired Clint Kubiak to revive a run game that's been pretty terrible, honestly, the last three years. I think both of these guys might be better gap run. Statistically, they have been better gap runners than zone runners in Kenneth Walker and Zach Charbonnet. There's a lot about this offense that I think I can get on board with the experiment and the thought behind it, but

I'm just curious by week seven, like week eight, how are we going to be thinking about how all this fits together? It's with Cup. It's like there's other teams where he made so much more sense to me. And then with Seattle, it was like, OK, well, Jason's it's too samey. Also, you guys have tight ends because that's the beauty of Cup two or like the skill set that he brings that he could be a de facto tight end for you, even though you're technically in three wide receivers. So it's kind of like, oh, you're hat on a hat.

you know, kind of like, all right, we already got this. We already got this at home. Like we don't need to go out and get different version of it. So that's why I kind of like it. That's the one sour taste I have. The thing with the offensive line, and I know we're talking, we're talking about skill guys there. The old line stuff I've,

I think some of the blemishes will get kind of mitigated because of the offensive system. Like, even though I have some, I always have just some grain of salt with the Shanahan offenses and Kubiak offenses, they have their strengths, but some of the weaknesses, I think I don't like the drop back game all the way. It depends on, depends on which guy is calling it, but yeah, yeah. But shorthand version. But I think that that does lift the floor because it's such a quote unquote safer offense. Like this, these offenses provide training wheels for the quarterback and the O-line.

So that's where I think some of my optimism comes is I think some of the blemishes won't be as bad with Sam. Like, I think they're pretty realistic about what he is and not going like, yeah, we're going to have him chuck it 35 times and he's going to be dropping back every single time. We'll say that the Vikings dropped him back a little bit more frequently than you would think. But that's also bringing up his worst moments.

Because that's where he can spiral. Yes, he can get hot, but he also can spiral way far down. But this is why I think as totality of the whole team, they're going to have to lean on the defense, which I think is going to be a really good unit because they have to stay in a run heavy script. They don't want to be dropping back like this whole team cannot be dropping back. It's going to be really like a.

Wario version of the early Legion of Boom teams. You know, like not as good, obviously. Those are all-time defenses, but the same philosophy. Defense first, zone runs, play action, go off of that. So like Seattle fans should actually be very comfortable in this kind of like philosophy that I think they're trying to go for, even if it's not all perfect. I just think that that's why I'm maybe higher than you guys is that

They still have strengths to their offense. Like I really do. Like I like Jason and I do think this run game is going to be at least above average. And I think Darnold can have some highs. And I think there's some of his worst tendencies will get kind of

Like they won't be as glaring. Like, yeah, he's going to have some mistakes. They just won't be as crazy. Yeah, I just kind of cut. I had my notes. For some reason, I wrote Cardinals and Jets. Oh, that's right. Last year, the run game. That was a great point that you brought up, Matt, that sometimes the gap scheme runs for those Charbonnet and Walker's Walker's banged up. But Charbonnet's best runs was the Cardinals game at Arizona and then the Jets game at New York.

And then that's where you could really see some power and at you runs and some duo and some pullers. And it actually like really came together. So I would like to see Kuviax just that way, you know, keep your mind a little bit expanded rather than just going zone, zone, zone, heavy outside zone, heavy outside zone. They also have a draft of the fullback, which is something I've kind of keep,

like waving away because i'm excited about yeah i know i'm so excited about tory horton that i'm like i forgot about their other fifth round pick yeah uh yeah but robbie robbie outs from alabama six three 274 pounds what do you what do we think this team is gonna do they drafted another tight end they got two decent tight ends at the very least so they have three tight ends and a fullback that they drafted in the fifth round this team is pounding the rock and then just going shot plays then we can get in the speed that they have but

I don't know. It's a, they're a curiosity to me. And I just, I think I'm staying bullish on them. Even if I do, I'm aware of the blemishes. And I think that's why I keep asking you guys, because I want you guys to keep pouring cold water on me. So I don't say, start saying outlandish as the summer wears on before the season starts. But we are going to take our first break and we'll come back with a few more of these new quarterback faces and new places.

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All because you're using LinkedIn Premium, which helps you get the business growth you want. Think big, small business. Think big. Start your free trial at LinkedIn.com slash premium small business. That's LinkedIn.com slash premium small business. All right. We are back and we're going with the quarterback. That's Sam Darnold.

Replaced, took over for, took the reins from, usurped. That is Geno Smith, who is now quarterback for the Las Vegas Raiders on a very interesting Raiders team. Chip Kelly, offense coordinator. Pete Carroll, former coach at Seahawks, now the head coach there. Went with Ashton Genting in the first round. Charles, I know you're a Geno fan. I think we're all Geno fans here. We appreciate Geno's game here.

Yeah. What is this going to look like? What is this going to look like? I am just what do you envision this fever dream of Gino Smith with Chip Kelly in Las Vegas is going to look like?

well we know they're going to run the ball that's for sure um you draft the action jim james right all right but it wasn't like you dropped genti but even like i feel like like the whole mantra with chip is you he gets he got billed as like this future age space guy for so long that you know people kind of forgot that the basis of this was just trying to

find good ways to run the football. And it kind of got away from him in San Francisco that last year in 2016 was like,

Towards the end of the season, they were just running inside zone out of gun. And all the creativity was gone. But I think he found himself a little bit in college and then in college going back to UCLA and then being able to coach Ohio State last year, who also ran the ball a ton as we saw with Travion Henderson and Quinshawn Judkins. I think they both had over 150 carries. I think Judkins is approaching like 175 or 200. So we know Chip wants to run the ball. And I guess the way that

I'm looking at this is I would imagine that Chip's offense is more diverse than the way he left it in 2016, the last time he was in the NFL. So I think that this is going to be at least a run game where they try new things, which is good because this run game was terrible last season. And I don't think that there's really anything that they should have brought back last season. So you get a new offensive coordinator, you get a new running back, you get Gino Smith, who at least raises the floor for your offense. I think there's room for them.

definitely to be better than they were last year. And if Jack Beck can come in and they can figure out how he matches well with Brock Bowers, there's room for them to push for

you know, maybe, maybe AFC two, maybe AFC West two, not AFC two, not AFC two, AFC West two, AFC West three. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not delusional. I'm not delusional. I'm not delusional. All right. But yeah, I, I, I do like, I do like the, I really liked the addition of the Gino Smith for this offense. You know, the more that I sat with it, I think you gotta be realistic about it too.

Pete Carroll is in his 70s. I don't know if he's going to be trying to sit around and rebuild another quarterback. So why not? Getting a guy here that you know has a good track record and also is not really all that expensive based on the output that he actually gives you. So I think this is going to be a quality offense. I'm interested to see how they decide to attack the run game because that's obviously going to be a big piece of it. And I think that that's really kind of been the most interesting experience

with Chip Kelly going back through Oregon, UCLA, the Eagles, and now with the Raiders. It's just, how do you build the run game? What are the concepts you're going to use? And then how are you building a passing game off of that? Yeah, I think that's a great point to bring up. Like,

Because sometimes kind of the narrative of a guy, it's like what you envision the person or envision the player or envision the coach or envision the movie or something. And it's actually different than what you actually see. Chip Kelly out of Oregon going to the Eagles. And I totally agree with you, Chuck, was that he was like, oh my God, they do all this. They're chucking it all over the yard. Look how much they're throwing. And it was really, no, no, it's zone read, zone read. They dress up a little bit and then they just go, we're going to get the fastest players in the nation and we're going to go faster than anybody.

And we can run the same simple thing because you're going to make a mistake. And one mistake is all we need. Trust me, I saw this firsthand in the 2011 Rose Bowl, technically 2012, Wisconsin, Oregon. We backed them up. Second down, second and seven. There's DeAnthony Thomas.

Black Mamba, I believe you got that nickname too. Taking it 93 yards to the house because one guy was a step slow to fill the B gap. That was it, to the house. But that was what his offenses became. And then the NFL became, and really what kind of caught them was

Their passing downs, like third and fourth down, weren't very expansive. They're kind of simple. A lot of Y-cross, which is post, over, and a dig. They call it the Saint Series. Peter and Paul, if anyone wants to know. Peter's to the right. Paul's to the left. It's the Saint Series. But

So they just ran over and over and over and it worked for a little bit. And then defenses always catch up. But it was cool. And not even last year with Ohio State, like I thought the 2023 UCLA offense and maybe even 2022, that was where I was like, wow, Chip is awesome.

on one chip is doing something weird and fun stuff like three tight ends pulling and like just these funky you know human centipede formations that he was doing and i thought that was where the because he i think he realized the maximum of speed he had and probably had a talent disadvantage at ucla so he had to do more creativity so somewhere in that mix of what ohio state offense was last year and that ucla offense was the two years where chip was the head coach for a

which maybe that's what it looks like the NFL. So I think they need that passing game coordinator to really expand the drop back game. But I think Chip maybe ate his Wheaties or at least studied a little bit to expand that as well. But Matt, when we talked about this receiver room,

How do you think this fits out? Like Brock Bowers is the ace, like even though he's a tight end, but he's the ace of this room. We've made plenty of jokes about Matthews, you know, Jordan Matthews, all these names we're bringing up. But how do you see this room unfolding? Because we've got some really good blockers. Jacoby Myers and Pesce are like awesome blockers. They really are. But do you see this offense being explosive enough to, you know, because Gino is going to chuck it? Or do you think this kind of is a weird fit with these guys?

Yeah, I do wish they had like one real lid lifter on the outside. Like they took Dante Thornton in the fourth round out of Tennessee. And he is like, theoretically, like that's exactly what they need. They need a big body who runs like a 4-3, which I mean, everybody could use that receiver. But he's like a pure, he's a pure project to me coming out of Tennessee. Like maybe he gives you something by year three, but like that is the type of guy that they would need. But again, I'm not sure that that's like, that's,

he's certainly not going to come in and start in year one. I'd be shocked by that. But I do think that what this team's going to do a lot is we've talked about, they're going to run the ball. I think they are going to run like a lot of zone concepts out of the shotgun. Gino was a 76% shotgun last year, ninth among quarterbacks. There were 200 attempts. I think they'll probably in that they'll run a lot of play action and just hopefully try to dunk it over those linebackers to Jack Bash to Brock Bowers. I expect like,

so many in-breaking routes on this offense. But

When they do have to go to the perimeter outside the numbers, that's where I still have a little bit of questions about these guys. Because I think Myers can play outside. I think Besh can play outside. Myers actually was more so outside than Slott last year. And he's a guy who's always been a good man-beater. I'm not too concerned about that. But similar to the Seattle conversation, I think these guys can be big play options. And I think they can have some real juice in the passing game. But again, I wish they just had one more lid lifter here.

Yeah. Trey Tucker can roll, but he's not, he's not like that. He's not an every down player. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like, he's so special. Yeah. He's a, he's a specialist and that can run. Like, I mean, that's why he's on the roster, but I I'm with you that that's actually where my, that's why I asked you the question. Cause that's my concern. There's a lot of cool horizontal players.

Not a lot of cool vertical players. And Gino likes to attack vertically. And so that is where there's one little, I want to see how Chip uses it. I guarantee you that they're going to run mesh a hundred times. Like I can tell you that. They're going to run mesh five million times. And like, I make the joke now, but get ready to strap in for that. I also was, as you guys were talking, I was looking up UCLA's rushing attempts while Chip Kelly was there. All right. Well, last year with Ohio State,

Because, I mean, they're beating the brakes off people. They ran the ball 33 times a game. Okay? All right. About what you'd expect out of a college team. Chip Kelly in 2023, they ran, UCLA ran the ball 40.5 times. In 2022, 39.5 times. In 2021, 42 rushing attempts a game. In 2020, 45.4 rushing attempts a game. In 2019, 40.8 rushing attempts a game. They are going to pound everything.

The rock. So I know we can say that get ready for crossing routes and a lot of running the ball, maybe some funky formations with a lot of hybrid guys too. So I don't know. There, there are fun curiosity to me. I, I, I, Chip Kelly's always just going to have that to me because he just gets to things in ways that I'm like,

i can see you're on the west coast you know you're expanding your mind a little bit with that idea all right we're going on to now i kind of this guy keeps kind of getting glossed over maybe this team is finally just like staying calm for once and maybe that's why justin fields with the jets all right he's there he's starting for him true starter no competition they're anointing them two years it seems like it seems like they're just taking a chill pill um

What do we think about Justin Fields in 2025 with the New York Jets? What is this offense going to look like? Actually, Matt, I'll start with you. What do you think Garrett Wilson and Justin Fields, how do you think they will link up together? Because I don't know if that's the greatest synergistic fit that I would really dial up between a quarterback and receiver. But I'm curious what you think about this passing game in New York, because we'll talk plenty about the run game too.

Okay, so it's funny you mentioned like this is not getting talked about. I feel like I've actually talked about Justin Fields a lot the last two weeks. I've written about him a ton. And this is for a couple reasons. Number one. I'm sorry.

I got to check that out. No. Dude, it's like – I think the piece went up. It's nothing that interesting because it was like a fantasy like ADP piece to monitor. And I'm like – that's why I've been talking about him because when he gets on the field, like he's going to make a difference for fantasy because he's second in scramble yards since he's coming to the NFL and he's not even been like a full-time starter. It's Josh Allen and then it's him because he's just going to – like he's going to matter in that way. But also the other reason I've been –

I've been thinking about fields and like wanting to kind of be on the right side on this one is that I've been on the wrong side of history with every single quarterback reclamation, like storyline over the last few years, I was the biggest, like Baker doubter when he went to Tampa Bay. I, you guys know this Nate, you know it, especially I was making jokes about Sam Darnold last year. So I don't want to just immediately wave. Yes. I made oligarchy jokes. I mean, oligarchs are in right now. Don't you know? Oh,

I was going to say that maybe that didn't age so well. I should have been making oligarchy jokes. Very relevant. I don't think I am pretty relevant. I don't know. I was trying to make like a painful transition back to Justin Fields there, but I'll just go back to it a little less painfully.

I want to not just wave off the Fields thing and dismiss it as, oh, we know who he is, whatever. I think this could be a pretty interesting environment for him. Now, the pass catcher room, it really is just Garrett Wilson, rookie tight end Mason Taylor, and not a lot else I'm interested in. It's like role players, Alan Lazard, role players, Josh Reynolds, stuff like that. I think they're going to have a really...

I mean, I think they're going to aggressively run the ball with volume, not just with fields, but with Brees Hall, but with Braylon Allen, but with Isaiah Davis. And I do feel like Garrett Wilson could have like a –

I don't know. He's not going to have a lot of raw targets, but he could have like a 33% target share. And when you were talking before the show, Nate, about Aaron Rodgers, and you were showing us the heat map of like his targets, I was actually just looking back at like, see, I write some of, sorry, some of Garrett Wilson's reception perception route charts as you were talking about that. And I just like looking back on it. And again, this is retconning

old takes i actually just don't even think that was a very good stylistic fit between those two guys because like i kind of want garrett wilson you know going over the middle and you know kind of not not totally improvving but like just go out there and separate because that's the thing he's best at and i think that fields and dj more kind of connected in some similar ways there so again maybe i just i don't want to be on the wrong side of history on this one but i'm at least

willing to leave the light on that this actually could be a really good connection between Fields and Garrett Wilson specifically. Yeah, the offense I'm not like totally out on even if it's not going to be the best offense. I don't think it's going to be a top 10 offense, but I do think it could be there's a path to being okay. So, you know, like being at least like they can keep them in games because I think they're not full of themselves. What you said to though, we're going to talk about this with Rogers. That's exactly right. Why I thought the Russell Wilson, Justin Fields with Arthur Smith

pairing whatever threesome uh was always going to be weird because since 2022 so the last three years 22 23 24 the two guys that throw over the middle of the least russell wilson justin fields 5.7 and 5.8 10 to 22 yards in between the numbers uh kyler murray jalen hurts the other and then kill williams or the bottom five league average is nine percent so yeah that's where short quarterbacks can't see it but

But Justin, my comparison always, the optimistic comparison with Justin Fields was that he's a bigger Russell Wilson. The negative comparison that I've had, or really what I feel of him now, is he's Daniel Jones plus. That's kind of how I just feel. Doesn't throw in the middle, takes sacks, explosive arm, explosive runner. Charles, what do you think of this run game, though, and the Jets offensive line? Like, do you think they can truly lean into this for games and kind of keep them in it? And are you excited about that run game at all?

Yeah, I'm excited to watch it. The way that... I wouldn't want to cheer for it, but... Exactly. I wouldn't want this to be my team, but I am excited to watch this. But it's funny because...

When I look at this, what does come to mind is kind of the way that we were talking about the Falcons offense in 2022 before everything went to crap and Arthur Smith got fired in 2023, where it's not the best offense you've seen.

but it's an offense you absolutely hate to play against when you're a defense. Like when the game's over, you're just like, holy crap, that absolutely sucked. Because they have, if everyone says healthy on the offensive line, this should be a good offensive line. Elijah Barrett Tucker, we know that he's really good when he plays. We're all been hiding him in bow. Fashani really showed out in the last month of the season and Matt brought up the Justin Fields scramble stats and he's also just a good runner in his own right. So you pair that with Brees Hall and Braylon Allen, like,

I don't really see why you would feel the need to throw the ball until you get into those situations. But I think it's going to be fun from the standpoint they're going to run a lot. They got talented backs. They got a talented runner, quarterback, and they've invested in the offensive line. So I think that the Gary Wilson conundrum is interesting because

Is he going to end up being one of these guys this year that doesn't have a whole lot of targets but is ADOT's like 25 or something like that because they're just trying to get big plays down the field? And I think that Tanner Enstring, the guy or the former Lions passing game coordinator who they hired to be the offensive coordinator, is actually kind of an interesting fit because if you want to run the ball that much,

you're going to have to use play action or play action is going to be a big part of your passing game. So why not, you know, continue to bring that over. And I, I did think it was funny that Aaron Glenn, his first quarterback they picked was Justin Fields who gave him fits over the years. Yeah. Yeah. He gave him fits over the years in Detroit. So we'll see what happens here, but I'm excited to see whatever the closest thing you can get to a service Academy offense is. Cause I think that's what this is going to be. And,

I know it's kind of like, it's kind of funny because they're going to run the ball. Like those Chip Kelly rush attempt numbers, they might as well be the Jets this year. It might be 40 rush attempts a game. That was a, I love that bringing up the 2022 Falcons, Charles, not because it was one of my favorite quirky teams in the last five, 10 years, but because I kept, I always described them as a bad team beater.

Like if you weren't up to snuff, if like you had a soft spine or like a one edge rusher that can't defend the run or your safeties don't feel like they were going to punish you. Like they were going to, okay, we're just going to run it again.

And we're going to run it again. Yeah. You guys think this is funny, but here comes Cordero Patterson, you know, for another touch. Here comes Tyler Algier. Here comes Mariota. But I, I really do think that that is what they should be going for. And I think it could be almost like a super, not supercharged version, but like a variation of that very explosive version of that. But really just, man, the, yeah, the,

The Garrett Wilson thing, I'm curious to see. I want to see how that actually unfolds. But I really, like, I'm not totally out on this because I just do think they have some identity with their run game and what they can do and what they can accomplish there. And Garrett Wilson might just become a big play

behemoth yeah you know it might it might be a lot of three catches 95 yard type games you know something of that sort or maybe a screen that you can get feels isn't great on screens either but uh but i do think that that like that offense could work and could just really bloody guys up i know it's just always i watched him again today just be like all right i remember what you were last year was it different it wasn't different it's what i pictured it was like yep you're still god

There, there's a path there. There's a path. He still has tools. There's something, but I think that path is greatly diverted and closed down. I think I should say, but yeah, I'm just curious to watch the jets this year, because I, especially, I just think if they play any defense, that's just not up to snuff. They're going to just punish them. And I just think, and just keep these games. I like that. I think the defense will be solid too. Also,

Well, you brought the Aaron Golan thing that made me think was, well, how do you get a team to not run man coverage? Okay. You look at the Jets and go, okay, they only have Garrett Wilson. That's all we have to worry about. All right. We'll just go man coverage and run like one double Garrett Wilson, you know, one double five.

Well, how you get a team out of man coverage is you have the quarterback run because that's so frustrating. There's no eyes on the quarterback and he can just go. So like, that's really frustrating. All right. Well, that's one answer. So you can't run man against us. All right. What's the other answer? All right. We'll go cover two. We'll make the quarterback find these spots and really just be a pristine operator over and over and over.

well, we can just run the ball and run it down your throat. So it's kind of nice. They actually have natural answers for the two ways I think defenses will go against them. So, all right, moving on to this is a, it's not a new face. It's a new starter in Minnesota. It's a space that's been there. He might be in the, might've been with the trainer room, you know, the entire year, but now he, it seems like he is the starter. I feel like it is. I feel like I can say it finally. That's JJ McCarthy with the Minnesota Vikings.

They short up the offensive line. Of course, they have these guys, Justin Jefferson, TJ Hockinson, Jordan Addison, got a real fun receiving room. I should say pass catching room. It seems like they're really trying to beef up the running back room as well. Training for Jordan Mason, get a little more punch in that running back room. But Charles, what do you want to see out of JJ McCarthy? What do you expect to see out of JJ McCarthy this year? What would be a good year? What would maybe leave a bad taste in your mouth? Just what do you want to see out of McCarthy in his first year starting?

Well, I want to see him play well because the framework is set. The one thing I want to avoid saying here is no excuses for a guy who hasn't played a regular season NFL game yet. But

when you look at just where they are offensively, I mean, this is a dream for a young quarterback to step into. They invested in the offensive line. You got three upgrades that were all serious upgrades. You got one of the highest paid players, all free agency in Wolf Rise, signed Ryan Kelly. He spent a first round pick on Donovan Jackson. If healthy, the tackles are in a good spot with Derrissaw and O'Neal, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison.

I mean, TJ Hawkinson and you have Kevin O'Connell, who you know is going to call plays that can get his quarterbacks, you know, to press some easy buttons and find some open spots. So it's just, it's the thing that I got stuck on when we were talking about, or after we finished talking about yesterday, is like how much do you weigh all of that where an offense where, you know, Sam Darnold can walk in and lead you to one of the best records in the NFC and to the playoffs.

what's the fair way of balance that supporting cast versus where JJ McCarthy is, which is, you know, basically a rookie quarterback coming off of an injury last year that cut everything short for him. So I think, I think like the, I don't, I don't know like what the raw numbers would be, but like,

top half of the league passing-wise. You just got too much firepower. And you got to be competing for the playoffs because the defense is going to be ready to go again with Brian Flores. So it's a heavy burden for a rookie quarterback. But you can't ask for a better spot than where J.J. McCarthy is than this. And we'll just have to see if he's ready to go. I really have no idea what to make of this. His preseason stuff looked pretty solid, but that's really all we have to go off of.

Matt, when you watched his Vikings last year, I know we've talked about the offensive line. I've brought up the pressure stats 500 million times, so I won't do it again. But when you were watching that Vikings team, what was leaving you wanting more, maybe? Just kind of even disregarding quarterback play, Darnold or McCarthy this year. Is there something that you're like, well, I wish they did this with Jefferson. I wish they did this with Addison. I wish they did this, well, with Naylor last year, whoever would be receiver three for him this year. Still might be Naylor.

I wish they did this with the offense. Was there anything that you're always like, man, they just can't. There's just like a glaring thing they're not addressing here. Yeah, it's not really about the passing game to me because, I mean, Sam Darnold was fifth in passing yards and fifth in passing touchdowns. And to Charles's point, I think it's going to be hard to replicate that production. I think McCarthy can have a really successful first season and not replicate those numbers. So there wasn't anything really to me where I was like,

I wish they did this in the past game. I just think their run game is something that like their offseason investment signal that they wanted to get better in. And I think by the end of the year, like we talked about this, Nate, on the fantasy show, like early on in the years, like, oh, man, Aaron Jones kind of cook in like they were running a lot of these kind of like staple outside zone concepts. I think they want to have more of a varied run game. And I think they don't want to just have it be Aaron Jones, which I think is interesting.

the best thing for Jones at this point in his career. He's still explosive. Even on gap runs, he can still hit a hole and get you maybe not a home run like he used to, but at least get you a triple. He's still a very, very good back when he's healthy, but I think having a guy in Jordan Mason who was second in weeks one to seven, he was second in the NFL in rushing last year. He was extremely productive and a high volume back and was a guy that was running buried concepts in that Shanahan offense. I think that

I think that's really, to me, what I want to see overall is not just the run game be better, but like a better marriage between the run and the pass game as well. Because I think that's something that, all right, again, we might not have the same passing statistics, but we can maybe feel smoother down to down in the passing game, especially because then you're not always hunting. Like if your run game is giving you singles and doubles or even maybe more of those bigger plays, you're not always hunting the deep ball.

And I think this passing game, if I had one criticism, I guess would be that it did always seem like they were trying to hit triples and home runs. So if your run game is giving you more juice, maybe you can just have some like steady answers in the passing game for JJ McCarthy in his first season.

I, I, I, well, exactly. That's exactly my concerns or I would say my questions I had for the offense. That's why I like the Mason trade and also the offensive line science. Cause that's, I mean, last year when bears fans were feeling themselves again, there was some discussion, some superlative talk about this is the best ecosystem or rookie quarterback has ever been dropped into.

And then, okay, let's say, let's just change that discussion to first year starting quarterback ecosystem. This might be it. I mean, this might be one of the best.

Yeah, I mean, because they actually have an offensive line. They actually have a center. They actually, I mean, got better play caller than Shane Waldron. You know, I can't remember that name. But no, I really, if you look at this, you couldn't ask for anything better. Okay, maybe a slot receiver. Like that's really all I'm wanting out of this team. Maybe some more line depth, even a little bit more. Okay, but I don't know. This is as good as it gets. And I think that's why,

It's not going to be perfect for a first-year starting quarterback. But that baseline better be high. And I like McCarthy. But I better really see some stuff because I just think this ecosystem is good. I think the play caller who knows him, and again, he's not a true rookie, even though he sat out last year because of the injury, that he is a first-year star. He's going to have mistakes. But again, I think that baseline better be at least competency, at least second-half-year Bo Nix last year, where it's like, okay, you can work with this guy.

Because I just think it is that good. And if it's not, it's like, wow, like it's not going to get easier than this. You know what I mean? Like, it's not going to get like, it's not like usually you don't have a system around you that looks like this. I do think he can reach that, but I just want to see it. You know, they were playing footsie with other quarterbacks for a reason.

And I think maybe that's just because KOC is just addicted to like talking to quarterbacks and meeting with quarterbacks and rehabbing to quarterbacks. You know, they traded for Sam Howell. But I do think that this is a really good system for McCarthy to be in a really good situation. So I'm optimistic about what it could be, but it's like now he has to show it. Now he has to prove it. Now he has to be on the field and play it all 16, 17 games as well. So it's really more, really more. Just got to see it. I'm optimistic, but just got to see it. We are going to though,

Take our last break, and then we'll come back with some rapid fire on some unknown starters, some battles that are happening throughout the NFL. Are your ulcerative colitis symptoms proving difficult to manage?

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with the mess that is the cleveland browns quarterback room i could just stop that with the cleveland browns defense should be fine but let's look at this quarterback room and how we got here well you know previously previously on uh they traded for kenny pickett which i didn't agree with should have been trading for tanner mckee they signed joe flacco they drafted dylan gabriel in the third and they drafted shadur sanders and the fifth we don't know who's starting we got a nice range of personalities here

Pickett, again, got traded for. Thought they should go McKee. Also think Pickett's just a career backup. Joe Flacco, who's a nihilist playing QB. Any wrestling fans would know he's basically Orange Cassidy playing QB. Those who get it will get it. Truly just a job for him.

But he's not mentoring either rookie. And there's two rookies in this way. Dylan Gabriel thought he was a day three guy. They took him around three. Fun enough player. Don't think there's anything special about him long term. We'll see. Then Shader Sanders, who I think needs time and development even to get to what I think would be more of a distributor role.

We now are in a system that has three other quarterbacks that this team has invested in. So there's only so many reps that go around, even with three quarterbacks. Usually two quarterbacks is all you're developing. So three is hard. Now you got four. Okay. So anybody want their first comment on what they think this Cleveland team is going to be? Who's going to win this job? What is this room going to be? What is expectations for the Cleveland Browns?

Oh, and then Deshaun Watson's on this team too, by the way. They still haven't, you know, his money is going to be on this roster for until like 2050. But no, Matt, thoughts on the Cleveland Browns quarterback room? Who do you think is going to win? Yeah, on your point about quarterback development and reps, they're already given, the reporters are already given Stefanski hell about like, oh, why is Dylan Gabriel getting reps ahead of Shador Sanders? Did you miss the draft?

Did you miss the number next to the round that these guys went in? One has a three, one has a five. Update for the preschoolers, three comes before five. So yeah, I mean, like, what are we talking about here? I actually think that

i feel like if if shador sanders is going to make the team which i do think is an if like he was a fifth round pick you're not guaranteed anything if you're a fifth round pick but if he's gonna make the team then i feel like only one of flacco or pickett is gonna make the team and then it because it just doesn't make any sense to carry like you're gonna carry all four of these guys again like not one of these rookies is and it would be sanders is just never gonna get any reps so i feel like then they just probably burned that fifth rounder

and DTR, but whatever, on trading for Kenny Pickett. Because if it's Flacco Pickett, even as bad as Flacco looked last year with the Colts, I think I'd probably give him the edge over Kenny Pickett. Also, I can't believe Flacco is still doing this, man. Ain't you made enough money? He must be so bored.

Must just not want to be at home. Holder's kids. That's actually really the question. Somebody look that up. We need to research team on what are Flacco's kids and how many sports are they involved in? He doesn't want to go to those games. But yeah, I feel like probably what happens here is Flacco starts the season. Eventually Dylan Gabriel starts. And I'm not sure we see either of Sanders or Pickett, but I know for sure I don't care that much about what happens with this offense.

They have four sons and one daughter. I was just looking this up and they're all like early teenagers. Oh man. No, I get it. Yeah. I get it too. Look how many kids Ryan Fitzpatrick has and you understand his career too. Yeah. College age. Like bills are, bills are going to come due. So, you know, a few million from the Cleveland Browns doesn't hurt either. Yeah.

Hey, it's a great point though. Most teams only carry two quarterbacks and have one on the practice squad now. Like that's, that's kind of the standard now.

very rarely. I mean, we had a couple, we have, you see a couple that will carry three on the active roster, but most go two and a half, basically. I mean, the last time I can remember a team having four quarterbacks was like the 2000 Patriots. Cause they had Brady. They had Bledsoe, Brady, and like two other guys. That's like the, and I only know that just from randomness of my brain, but that is one I could think of too. But it's,

two of these guys aren't going to be on the active roster. And then we get into some fun discussions there. So, Charles, what are your thoughts on this QB room? Who are you? How are you rating this? How are you power ranking this room? Oh, God. Well, I'm going to put Joe Flacco first because you just have to give Browns fans something that reminds them of football not feeling like crap. And somehow Joe Flacco is the last thing for them in that regard.

Yes. Before, what was it? When they got absolutely decimated by Houston in the playoffs, like 41 to 17 or something like that. But, you know, those four games where he was like quarterback 25, quarterback 26, that's a lot better than quarterback 50, which is what Deshaun Watson was. So, you know, you're moving on up in the world. So I'll put him first. I think I'm going to go second.

I'm going to go Dylan Gabriel, I think, just based on drafts investment. I mean, that's a top 100 pick. I know he hasn't played. I personally think he's the worst of the four. But it's just hard for me to see a world where they give up on a top 100 pick year one. Year two? Definitely possible. I mean, they did just cut Siak Yika, the nose tackle from Baylor, who's a second round pick after one season. So...

I don't know if Gabriel Stats, the third rounder, cements anything, but for the purpose of ranking this for making the team, I think I'm going to put him second just because they just dropped in the top 100. Then you get to Shador and Kenny Pickett. I guess these are your two fifth rounders, right?

I'll go. I think Shador is a better quarterback than Kenny Pickett, but I don't know if they cut Kenny after they just tried to acquire him and they gave up another player that they valued clearly in DTR because he got to play some money snaps that I don't think most teams would have given him over the past few years. So I think I'll put Pickett

three a sanders 3b but maybe those are the guys who are fighting for their chances to make the roster um and i think that that the roster number is a good point because like how many times have uh over the past years like how many times we poked fun at russell wilson coming out in full pads when he's the emergency quarterback and stuff like that well he still needs to be like ready to play but he's not like actually playing and i and i guess that's where uh should or is gonna end up or can he

Yeah. Or yeah, the other QB basically. Right. The only, so the highest QB I can remember getting cut before he even stepped on the field was Tyler Wilson, Arkansas quarterback that the Raiders drafted in 2013. Fourth rounder pick overall 112th. Oh yeah. And I talked to, yeah. Number 112 overall to even make it out of camp.

And I remember people talking to people there and they're like, yeah, we knew right away. We knew we just made a mistake right away. But that's also the Raiders. I know that's a great point with the Pickett thing and also just personalities involved and egos involved. Now imagine Andrew Barry going like, yeah, I traded for Kenny Pickett. Now he has to talk to his mentor, Howie Roseman again. And Howie's like, want to buy another bag of lemons?

i got i got dozens of them for you yeah you want some more uh you know like that's also the thing too so there's also some that gritted teeth like no no no he's fine he's fine he's on a roster like he's got to remember those things too so yeah i i think flacco ends up winning it all winning it all because i just think he even at 40 years old is the best quarterback in this group um then maybe we just go on from there but yeah i just think there's gonna be

potentially two odd men out, not just one because of just roster stuff. But I'll just see how the, this is Cleveland's problem. And I'm just gonna be curious how they figured it out. God, yeah. Tanner McKee is basically new Kevin Cobb. If you guys remember that name. Let's move on to...

Remember? Yeah, former Eagles backup. He was always like trade bait every year. I think the Cardinals did give up a second round pick for him. They did. That is the thing that happened. Yes, they did. I know. And I remember that too. I mean, but his name got rumored forever because of some preseason performances. Steelers.

Really, the only question I got is anybody but Rodgers. Charles, there's a certain quarterback on your favorite team. Do you think he ends up at Pittsburgh, or is this just Aaron Rodgers all the way? I think it's Aaron Rodgers all the way, probably. I don't really see why he won't want to pick up whatever bill is left over after they work out this trade for Kirk Cousins. Because the whole point of Kirk was you –

Yeah, you can't run, but he's been playing football forever, so you should be okay from a mental standpoint to still run an offense. And that was true for the first half of the season. And then you forgot what cover two was, and it got really dark really fast. So I don't really see the... I don't see it here. Neither of these guys are super mobile, and we know that that's what...

like Artie Smith wants to degree in his offense, but I guess Aaron's a little bit more mobile. It's funny because I feel like if you could actually combine the passing styles of these two, it might actually work because Kirk's not... And get their two healthy legs together. Yeah, get maybe one healthy leg from each player. I don't know if that's going to be two left feet, but that's kind of how it looks sometimes last year anyway. So that's not that much. That's not that different. Yeah.

But it's funny because Kirk, part of the problem last year was Kirk liked to throw over the middle so much that he became predictable and he was just throwing it straight into the laps of linebackers and safeties. And then Aaron on the other side can be risk averse. So maybe if you could just put him into one quarterback, you'd have the geriatric veteran quarterback you're finally looking for. You'd have Tom Brady, right? When he was on the Bucs, except without all the interceptions. The last year Bucs.

Yeah. So I don't think you trade for Kirk because...

it's, it's, it's, you can't really, you're not signing him. Like if you were signing him, it'd probably be for like close to like 10, $15 million a year, maybe 20, but he's making a lot more than that. So I think you just wait the Falcons out and see if they come eventually, which is just a hilarious calamity to end the Kirk Cousins feel cutting him after one year, but there's no spots left except for Pittsburgh. And by everything we know, it seems like Aaron Rogers at some point before week one is going to sign with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Right. I mean, we've talked about this, hinted at this. Yeah. I got to bring up my, my thoughts on Rogers with Arthur Smith, potentially. Like, I think the best version would look like that 2021 Falcon steam Charles with Matt Ryan's last year. RIP, but it was like,

you know when kyle could still run then it was like oh this is fun like cordell patterson's lining up at tight end on third down pits is in the slot just this funky island of misfit toys that that led to some optimism oh to be young uh but then i i look at rogers and you brought up not throwing over the middle he's one of the guys that throws over the middle of the least now or the fewest mount fewest rate or low straight god i can talk um but really

And that's dropped as the years went along because he is a guy that does not want to make mistakes because he doesn't want to throw the interception. He doesn't want to chase a guy on a pick six. He doesn't want to do any of that stuff because he,

Score watcher. I'll be honest. That's where Aaron Rodgers is. That's why he doesn't throw a lot of interceptions. But he last year had the lowest error air yards of his career. Less than seven, 6.9 lowest explosive pass rate, lowest air yards to sticks or relative to sticks. He averaged 1.6 yards short of the sticks last year. You know, us was 1.6.

Kirk Cousins. So his career average though was 0.2 yards short of the sticks. So he's been, he's targeting a yard and a half shorter than he used to be. And that usually indicates check down, safer throws, things that we're not really pushing the ball and trying stuff. He still has arm talent. That's what's kind of frustrating about how he plays now. And on top of it, he doesn't throw over the middle anymore. That's where I got my

Cool little heat charts here, target maps here from True Media. If you look at 2022 to 2024, or 2021 to 2023, I'm sorry if you're watching this on YouTube, I even put a little circle here. Notice all those throws over the middle? Big little chunk over the middle, about 9% of his rate, about league average rate.

throwing over the middle that's where arthur smith's offense that's how it that that's how it booms that's where it looks the best that's why i looked a little stagnated last year at two guys that don't throw over the middle of the field at all all the play action concepts all the yak that gets created off that then you look at 2024 aaron rogers and you see where i have some hesitations and you see a big voided area in the middle there that's why i'm just like oh

there's positives here, but there's just like, I still have questions. And also on top of it, if you remember the Jets last year and you remember the Falcons last year, they became one-sided and they wouldn't bootleg because of their quarterback's Achilles. Their quarterbacks couldn't push off. So which coach loves under center play action and under center bootlegs? Arthur Smith. It's like,

ah this is just not there's the idea of it's okay but just the combination of this is just a little unappealing i think i think i would say here uh producer colin said yeah this is the big ben drew breeze archetype last season archetype and really matt ryan last season archetype when he was with the colts uh this is kind of the beginning of the end it usually says it's not it's not the names i want to be throwing out here right now anyone i'm talking about the steelers so um we'll wrap up here we just mentioned russ several times throughout the show

I kind of give you a little, if you want to get a little bit more on Kirk Cousins in a sec too, Charles, you can. But Russ, now, all right, you got it out. Got it on the chest. Russell Wilson, one-year deal with the Giants, also signed Jameis Winston. And then they traded up to draft Jackson Dart of Ole Miss. Tommy DeVito is still on this roster. Also probably my favorite picture of this whole entire offseason was all four quarterbacks taking a drop back together. They all looked exactly what you envision them like.

Jackson Dart backwards hat swagged out Tommy DeVito looking like Tommy DeVito Jameis looking like Jameis and there's Russell Wilson tights pants on here he was ready to rock he was ready to rock like you said Charles emergency quarterback fully padded he was he was ready to go um my question Matt I'll let you have honors here what week oh goody does Jackson Dart start in 2025

Well, if the league schedule that I saw today is to be believed, which is not official, but they don't have a buy to week 14. And that's on my radar because usually that is when the teams like, all right, they'll get the young quarterback in over the buy. Like if they've got that, they've got that comfortable week six, week seven by we'll do the kind of respectful veteran thing early. And then we'll go ahead and start the rookie at that point.

That's a long – I mean, let me tell you what. Jackson Dart is starting before week 15, okay? They're not waiting until that week 14 bye. I think he's getting in there at some point. So, yeah, I think that – I think it's going to be pretty early, man. The point in drafting Jackson Dart is like this is –

the your save yourself move and uh again if this leaked schedule is to be believed they start commanders cowboys chiefs on sunday night football that might be russell wilson swan song right there chiefs on sunday night football week three i mean that might be the last time we see russ so i think it's gonna be sooner than later but this is a tough schedule too again in the meat of this thing before week eight they've got the eagles twice one of them's on thursday night football we've got the broncos in week seven

The Niners defense is back on track. They got them in week nine. There's not like a...

Sometimes with these teams with young quarterbacks, you can pinpoint a moment where like, okay, this is where the schedule is a little bit soft. People tried to do this with Drake May last year with the Texans. Like, how could you start him against the Texans in his first game? He'll never recover. You'll ruin him. People try to overthink this too much. Not us. Not us. Not us. We were on the right side of history on that one. I'm saying week four. Chuck had a great rant on that. Week four we see Jackson Darnold.

Week four? Wow. Yes. Yes. Over under that, Charles. I think Russell is in week three. That's him. It's over. That's it? Okay. Okay. That's the coup d'etat. That's where the head comes off. I think...

I think I'm going to go over because I think that Dave will is going to play it to save his job at the very last second, if he can. So maybe you pull the plug in like the second half of the season when it's looking like you're about to get your pink slip. Bam. Ricky quarterback. Oh, maybe he doesn't suck. Maybe, maybe I'll come back next year. Who knows? But I think pulling the plug on week four is a little bit too early, but there's no way to make it. I think they'd fire a mid season. I think they'd fire a mid season at that point. I don't even think he's a John Marr doesn't have the guts.

Who starts? Does Dable get fired before Jackson Dart starts? That might actually be the better question. Look, I wouldn't. I mean, I think Dable makes it to the season only because that scene from Hard Knocks where John Marr is talking to Joe Schoen about bringing Saquon back, right? And John Marr has like this neager reaction.

side to his argument where he's like well you know i like i like seeing saquon barkley in a giant's uniform i think it's good for him to be on the team well you're the owner then just do it like do it what why are you taking orders from your subordinates uh so i think they're gonna make it all through the season and then he gets canned uh at the end it's it's sad because i covered the joe judge stuff i don't remember when he actually got fired it was just kind of all the blur

After the 2021 season. So Joe Judge made it through the whole season. Yeah. So I think that's how he rolled. So did Pat Shurmur, too.

remember they were taking a knee like on like first down or whatever they're running qb sneaks when they're like backing up or something the joe judge experience that was that was yeah speaking of joe judge actually i have a point on it well first off the giants have a hard-ass schedule they have the hardest schedule in the nfl according to strength of schedule um you know there's other aspects to that but one of the hardest schedules in the nfl so that's also a point wouldn't you say that their potential thursday night game was week nine

Week six. Say week nine. I think week six against the Eagles. After that is when I'm mini by Jackson Dart time. So week seven is where I'm going to go. So I split you guys. I put you in the middle there. There you go. They're going to get ravaged. I know. Perfect host. That's why I went last. It's great. No, but...

We know this. Brian Dable, Joe Shane on the hot seat. I think everyone in the world knows this. Then they trade up, draft a quarterback. This is just what bad teams do, but we'll see how this goes. But we all know, even people that are very optimistic on Jackson Dart,

Even the people are bullish on him. He needs time. He needs development. He has traits, but we really need to harness them and polish them, teach them how to take under center drop X cadence, you know, all these little things he needs time. And now we're dropping them in with what you said, Charles guys, they're going to go, Oh, pink slip. Oh, nope. Nope. I got a young quarterback. Don't you guys want to see what the mystery box is?

like very smart, very savvy moves by these decision makers. I think even if they loved art, I still understand the timeline they're trying to do. Also, Joe Shane's kids both go to Ole Miss. Dable's friends with Charlie Weiss, Charlie Weiss Jr., who were both involved with Ole Miss, and Joe Judge, who's also involved with Ole Miss. And they act like they scoured far and wide for every quarterback prospect. But I'm also just questioning that.

you know, how they ended up on the Ole Miss quarterback, just happenstance that they ended up liking him. But I do have to mention that as well. Did we make it? We did it. All 500 million quarterbacks that we have thrown in here, man, way to go guys. We're there. Oh, and here's the picture for anyone watching on YouTube of the Giants quarterbacks. There's Jameis with the towel.

Oh, yeah. Look at all of them. Look at all that. That's perfect. That encapsulates everything here. We don't really have that picture with the Browns quarterbacks. We just have the hand size comparison between Flacco and Pickett. That was about it. Brutal. All I know is whenever Tommy DeVille gets cut, there's going to be a tribute video from the social media team. I would bank money on it. Dude.

Dude, I think they cut Jameis before DeVito. Jameis is out of there before DeVito. They keep the meme quarterback for the fan base type situation. But yeah, you can't cut Tommy DeVito. Come on. Plus, by the way, Jameis just sent him to Pittsburgh.

right to fulfill the prophecy oh no i think uh with the you know devito too it's like i think every time fanbase sees them too they just see drake may and cam ward as well just go oh there there goes our chances there there there you went yeah giants have never had a mascot so devito is a pretty apt one for them i think that makes sense but we are closing it out today

And we'll be back next Wednesday with some more football 301. I am Nate Tice. You can find me at Nate underscore Tice. That is Charles McDonald. You can find him at four verts on all platforms. And that is Harmon. You can find him at Matt Harmon underscore BYB or Matt Harmon, BYB. I believe mailbag questions. Also.

Make sure to send those mailbag questions to football301mailbag at yahoosports.com. We're getting to a bunch of those. It's off-season time, so of course, leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. You can jump the line, subscribe to us, follow us, rate us, wherever you get your podcasts. Also,

and watch us on YouTube on the Yahoo Sports YouTube channel. You can check out some of the cool graphics we got going on as we are doing these shows. We're going to have even more as the months go along, especially once we get into the season. Thank you to everyone behind the scenes for helping us out, making us look good. Thank you to everyone for listening. See you guys next week. ♪♪♪

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