CSA President & CEO Tobin Richardson Joins for Matter Discussion After 1.4 Launch
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Welcome, everybody to another exciting episode of home hit insider. You've got me, as always, Angel hara and joining me at this week. I am at the rilled because we have president and the of the connectivity standards alliance, tobin Richardson. Thank you for joining me so much. I have know we've talked at least a little bit in the past at random things. But if you want to give people like a little bit of intro and we're going to get into the news and then we're going to talk more about matter, so how tell us a little bit about what csa you how you got there and all that. awesome.

Thanks very much, and are great to see you again. Yes, and we've definitely opportunely at the fun run of events like the consumer electronic show and is so good to see here in this medium and great to be talking about matter uh, a little bit about myself and csa.

I do with the organization just over a dozen years came and really looking to come up with cool new applications and the energy sector kind of changed that approaching and and view as relocked at a broader consumer uh audience and then um really took uh fortunately the role of C E O about again about a dozen years ago to held the organization transition from um what IT was accomplishing through zik b and brodney that to really great apart of the smart home and that evolution over the last decade has really let us to wear. We are today with matter. So we are you know a member based organza, a great technical community that delivers fantastic extend ards for international ability.

And over seven hundred companies today, over nine thousand people now involved in one way, shape or form from those you know several hundred companies working on creating great consumer experiences through standards. So it's been a great journey. Matter is a great journey. I know i'll get a chance to talk more about that after the news.

Yeah, there's been so originally, we were going to come on. We had one point for matter one point for just released talked about IT, I think like two episodes ago. So that can be a big topic we're going to talk about.

But then next thing I know, you know, i'm getting the show notes for this weekends, like how many matter things are going to be announced this week. So we have so much to talk about, I guess starting off with just a little bit of information, another user set in. So this was from me, show von, again.

Now I can actually shove on, so can pronounce the name correctly. They run A A little blog that had that's called practical home kit that blogs about that calm. But this is over that in the csa data abase IT shows that apple is certified for matter one point three.

That's the one that was announced to this spring, and that's awesome to see. They are certified. One of things that I know I want to ask you a little bit about is it's so opake with when things are certified versus like available because we see like a lot of robotic getting cleaners, they are certified.

They've been certified since march, but none of that is actually available. And I expect something similar here. This is showing that apple is certified for a matter one point three, but we don't actually know if if matter one point three is all these devices or not.

So at least interesting to see IT certified, and it's really hopeful to have that database. But I feel like there still needs to be like a second data, he said. What's available verses like announce versus available .

type thing come store near you soon. Yeah it's we track, of course, the certifications and dangerous organza and IT is a great indicator of what's coming, right? And of course, it's always up to the companies in terms of when they're released in those.

Um and different companies have different product plans, different product development cycles. Of course, they will follow that you in terms of how they're looking at when different product sense of the market. Some of those will take a couple of months then maybe you know during the certification right before they launch, and others may be doing that just as a proof concept before they get into a so make up for another year too. And of course, no, we saw this for blue th with wifi. This is really just how how these companies come to market the and the place that they put the standard component as part of that, that path.

for sure. IT. IT has always been my theory, my working theory on the show that apple is like really ganging up on like all the matter stuff and they're going to launch they're like big, small home initiative in the spring and then they're going be able to support like everything like right out of the gate really fast.

And it's going to be very impressive instead of the slow stagged roll out. So I feel like there is going to stay quiet for right now and then try to wow everyone in the spring. But that just my my personal theory of blest.

I'm wild by all of our members. I love what you're doing. I love what apples doing. I love what you all of our only other platforms are doing, whether it's samsung, amazon and and google and LG and and others that are stepping in.

So i'm i'm always excited that i'm always excited to see that the steps that have taken I recognize school is a journey for them as well. So they've to come at their own time and in their own style, too, right? I mean, this is IT doesn't just about we're got a product let's slain ch IT.

Let's get allow a lot of these do these bundle forms. So as you said, you know perhaps that apple ones to do IT, and that's great. More power to well.

speaking of apple and their stuff, more news coming out this week from them. Apparently this is from murban. I believe he says apple is once again considering doing a full that top TV like A A whole actual dedicated TV.

This was something that was rumored for for like over a decade ago. I think water eegs in quoted Steve dropped as saying I finally cracked IT about a TV back in two thousand and ten. I don't know how much this makes sense, you know twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five.

But it's very interesting to see how apple could may be expand its sport home strategy, the apple TV interface to a full TV. But I don't know, apparently you might be in the cards again. Of course, I would expect IT would be no matter capable since TV everything you're now supported IT matter.

I've got a few matter enabled tvs already. So you know if they do, i'll have to add another one to the mix. My wife and my kids apparently enjoy that.

Maybe I mean, I just like I love being able to turn IT on and off and i'm not sure I believe it's grew the the homework IT, which is the apple TV. But IT is really nice being the set like that good night scene and having the tvs turn off. So if you have something that doesn't have an apple TV connected, I really like that functionality or even just sit changing inputs in everything. I one hundred person believe that they should have matter and TV and and more.

You can roll that out. The integrations are getting a lot Better. The experiences as a result are getting a lot Better too. And and know we had things like casting a through matter, and of course, all the controllers that you can baseball turn T, V into a controller. And that is the interface really meeting consumers where they are in terms of how they want to interface with all the devices are the experiences where they are connected objects.

Yeah, well connected objects. Anyway, there's a new air tag coming in twenty twenty five. So we talked about a lot of to find my stuff.

There's a new local tracker, er, by the way, from journey, which I thought was cool, i'm going to check that out. Apple apparently is working on a new second and airbag first hardware refresh. They say they're trying to make the speaker harder to remove that way.

People can't use these to track people. And then like, remove the speakers so people can find them this supose ally also to be higher precision. So all of that sounds good, but only, yeah, come in twenty twenty five second generation version of air tags.

Well, more into the matter news again. Amazon has two new big smart home products. And I say big because we have the echo show fifteen and the echo show twenty one being announced.

These are eventually like photo frames that act as as smart home hubs. They say they have much Better speakers, more base, and they have Better cameras built into them. Of course, on the smart home front, we have a igi thd and matter support built tins.

These will act as a matter hubs. They include well mount hardware and in the counter top stand is an extra charge, which is interesting because western, I just talked in the last episode about how apple what apple strategy would be for their smart home display, its own smaller. But maybe apple will go with a warm out in the box and then the table top stay in separate. I don't know, but it's great to see these. I very much these kind of thing is coming out of the apple camp.

I might be a bit of a super user. I have these screens, Oliver, both my office and here as well as in the house. And so but but they all are, they are cool and and we put them in a guest room.

So when my sons are coming home from college or others, it's nice. Be able to I have kind of that interfacing people want to run out to the living room and there in their pajamas and things like that. But regardless, less know. I love that you said no more base because how can you ever go wrong with more base?

I know i'm also testing out the new the sono sub four, which was an upgrade from my sub mini and everything i'm watching an action movie, it's very intense. That is such a nice upgrade. I I love having that on there.

Well, we have more new products being announced. So this is the a car. T one of ove controller. This was tea on their social media mentioned on the last epsom.

And i've got one in my, this are hearing, to control your water value in your home, you can tie IT to any water sensors so that you can have the water killed if there is a week detected. And what I really like about this, and I didn't know initially, is that IT words on several different types of valves. So the one that I have connected to IT, if you're washing the video, works in your gender to level lever valves.

So those are going to be for me, like controlling my outdoor water or even the water to the house. But you can swap IT for the standard kind of like butterfly ones that are like a small little wings and those you're going to find on all of your sinks, on maybe your water devices in the basement, your toilets. All of those will have that kind of controller.

So what I love about this is it's soft boli. Zed, you could put this onto any waterway in your house and then be able to automatically shut IT off. In the case of that emergency, I am quite bombed actually, because my main waterline that I want to connect this to for my outdoor speakers, because we had to control those the most, especially with the variability and whether here or ohio.

But I have another pipe in the way, and this doesn't fit. So I am so bombed about IT. IT does work with mattered, I believe, if you have.

So this is itself as ziggy, not thread. And IT connects to any of carob that is matter certified. So if you have like the m to be anything like that, it'll connect to that, then bring into matter controllable with homecare, everything like that. But this is really cool. I love this .

adapter for the pipe to forget IT into the right, right side.

I think IT. Like I have two waterlines coming in, and i've got to like a metal line which runs our outdoor over our to our water. Then I have a plastic PVC line right in front of IT, and this would essentially hit right into the plastic PVC.

So the only way that I can figure to do this is by moving that plastic height. And I really did think about removing the brackets and all you're ones like to spend on the house. I could theoretically ally remove a few those brackets and move IT out because its plastic so IT can, you know, bend a little bit and be just fine.

And still, if this in the place, I kind of want to do that because there's been times where i'm like, oh, where it's warm enough outside ning and to turn the water on, to go do some stuff outside one of the chickens, whatever. And the next thing I know, I leave IT on and then there's a water warning and the valve is still open and refreeze morning I like, oh, no. And I have to go down in the basement, cut the water so I don't blow any water lines.

And then I guess I could get alerts that, hey, the temperatures dropped in your valve is open, close IT. I could create those automation and stuff. So something like this is.

is hugely useful. We're excited about .

the I also had a second of a new product, bor. At least the eu market, which is another matter enabled product, is their smoke detector. So eighty five despiser n smart from medications if you have a smoke detected, IT can cut your age back system, perhaps that if you have, I can equal beer or something like that, you can turn off your each vx system if most detectives, we're not like pumping IT through your house.

Unfortunately, we're not getting this here in the us is really difficult for I have talked, I think, the first at eve quite a bit about this because they have again, a partner with someone to make a smart connected one in europe. And just trying to get that to the us with the different certificates is super hard to do. So this looks solid, but just available in europe at the moment.

I guess I talked about ecb, so they have a new feature coming out. Not anything matter specific this time, but they knew have daily summary ies and detailed insights in the APP coming soon. These look great.

IT literally can show you how much energy you're spending graphs over time of your energy. Can location based on your age, back your head, anything like that, that you're using? This looks really, really cool.

Utility bill comparisons. So overall, your utility cost and armstadt activities, you can add Better insights into your monthly energy behavior and savings. We're going to talk about energy very soon here because that's a big matter.

One point four topic, but this is great. I'm big fan of equation in what y've been doing. So this is cool.

IT should be coming to the APP very soon. Who exit their new product is becoming available, the halo select. This is a matter over red lock and also has wifi. If you're going on that route, they have their smart riki tech, which is what makes us especially exciting for me because it's if you are someone who has existing keys out there, anything and you will be build reka your lock, you can do that. You can do IT yourself and no need to have a professional come out, reaches for you anything. Get a touch screen he bed appropriate on amazon is available in low in stores at lows and becoming to home deepole very soon cause you two hundred eighty dollars for the quick set halo select smart .

lock lovel all these products. This is very cool, feel like Prices rather wheel of fortune. I'll take a lot for I .

know it's so I how many things are launching? You usually don't see this because everyone's going to announce these things is in january and everyone's like, no, we're going to .

do IT here before the holiday is like .

it's going absolutely okay. I want I definitely want your opinions on this. So we're going to talk about level lock and they're upgrade to matter.

And I personally feel this was handled a very weird, and I don't completely understand they're out that theyve been going. And i've received multiple questions from our audience asking how this works and why is IT this way. But IT in the way this is roles out.

So first is coming to the level lock plus users, which is like the leone, like the touched, the touch sensitive outside ring and all that. So coming that first, I did confirm that the bolt will be coming in the future no date yet, but they will be updating the boat that does have the threats radio. So that will get matter eventually.

To do this, you have to you have to go online and fill out a form where you input, like, yes, you have a thread matter hub would make sense that that is requirement, but you have to agree that you have that. Then you have to enter like your serial number and things like that. And then someone reviews this information.

And then at some point in the future, for me, I took about four days, I think you get an emails saying you look like you are a good candidate to upgrade your lock and then they give you like the code in an email itself, like you can even generate IT in the level APP. They give you your code, your parent number in Q R code in the level of email. And then you go back to the APP.

You remove IT from apple home, which makes sense because that worse with any accessory, you're Operating to matter. So that's that's understandable. You but remove maple home, then you go to read d IT to matter can your email or enter that code and it'll on board and go through all that stuff IT seems like a lot, especially with the whole email back.

And fourth thing. And then on top of that, at least for me, IT seems like IT moved home key support, which I also don't understand because I have another matter able block from a cora that worked ever matter, but also has home key. So I don't I don't know what happened there because I never said that homekeeping be functional afterward, but my no longer work with home key.

So I don't know if that is expected or are not expected, but all of that just seemed confusing. A couple of other questions people had. Will the level lock wifi connectors still work or they be defined? I believe they should still work, but you obviously would get similar functionality direct with with the rapper home other than changing past code and stuff.

If you have a keypad connected and if you have a regular level lock, that one will also still work as Normal people asked, like if you had two different ones, would they do things differently? Both of them matter and not matter. We'll show in the level APP the same regardless if it's matter or not matter. So I don't know IT IT just definite seems like it's been a little like a little bit of weird process, especially other products that i've upgraded like the ones eve IT never seemed to be this convoluted, interesting.

There are different ways to support different, different products on different platforms. The whole notion of multi min support and the matter standard should allow you to have kind of move between those, the ability to get the the access to those. Yeah not sure that would be an interesting, interesting conversation to have to understand that I different companies are going to use different ways to to get their products on on to I know a network where they can see that interface through the APP. Um and so maybe without precious sing the direction here, maybe that they're not looking to continue a meaningful relationship with the consumer through that or to to enable I was going to say perhaps preparing, but I don't think that's what's happening here. So interesting yeah well, you find out when I .

talked to level a long time ago, one of things that they had mentioned, when they talked about the matter and the thread, their biggest concern, I think, and i'd heard nano leave echo this was they were a little concerned about people having supported the red devices in their homes.

And I think this is maybe perhaps over as ellis, but at least trying to be that barrier to prevent people from upgrading to matter and losing functionality because people didn't realize I didn't have the red border router matter router in their homes. So it's definitely a concern. But I I just like they went a little bit heavy handed with that barrier because nor leave and eve both have like alerts to like hey, make sure you know this first and then acknowledge IT and do the upgrade. But maybe they just want to be extra action that they didn't lead people with brick devices, which yeah I understand, especially for a lock.

You can appreciate that.

I mean, you can appreciate that, that they're you're going to want to manage the process as we have a new technology one, the understanding of the companies, the understanding the engineers, the understanding the customer interface for those companies and then the consumers themselves, right? And you know, to your point, do you have the infrastructure in place to adding one new device? And as we see the roll out here just two years in, but we know that this takes years, were kind of a full rollout and how long going to take for everybody to have singular wifi access point um and that took A A long time.

So during that kind of early transition, making sure that one, but the device works properly so that they're moving the notion of that, the technology pic so they can get to the user experience. Some of this will be solved through how the matter standard works in terms of joining perin. And and the the device support but the network support, but the how companies decide to onboard new devices into their APP into their networks, that's that part is still, of course, always and always can h should be left to the the companies decide how to how to engage there. But again, like a set, an interesting way to to to do that.

Yeah, I think they're just been a little confusion from people on on how because I didn't even know I had I had to google and I got their press release. I had to google how to upgrade mine in the matter because I saw nothing in the APP, nothing in the press release, and I had to google IT. And then I found like a form.

And I go, I bet guys, I felt this out. So definitely some, a lot of this stuff with matter IT is informing people and making sure that they understand how the stuff works. And I think everyone still trying to figure that out a little bit. You actually with but I could hokey was seemingly removed .

yeah I can't explain that or really common on that one. But but I think your earlier point, no IT, is about helping consumers understand this in the uniform way so that you're getting know the benefit that you won out, out of the matter based .

products pressure. Well, I did reach out to level to see if they were able to give me any information on the home key aspect of IT. If I were you right now and you rely on home key, I wouldn't do the upgrade until we kind of figure that out.

I had not received a response back by the time that we were recording this, but when I do know, I will let everybody know. We do IT more matter news, which is, this is very cool for those that are techne out there. I know we have a lot of people who get into doing a lot of, like, their own programing.

So this seems cool. Flick has announced the world's of first script matter certified controller. So this seems pretty neat, is basically a small box, and you can write your own smart home code at to control your matter devices. This is a very cool, very unique. I have not seen obviously, sleuths first, I had even expected this on the list of new matter devices to launch.

Yeah, I met with some of the flick guys and they have a lot of cool things coming through. And so we we're always happy to see the innovation here. I think you know things like this will make IT these year poor are not necessarily different of devices, but really different experiences. So this is a great play and play approach and a fun way to customized. So very cold.

I like the flicks off, like round controller button is is very neat. So I probably am not going to get I moved away from this. I did a lot of the rasberry pie and the early home kid day stop.

I made my own camera out of a rasberry I to do stuff with. But it's easy enough now that I don't need to to tinker too much. But I love that this is an option for those they want to continue to do that really that makes matter Better for those that are advanced users.

This is all part of partial rate is I spent us some time with the linux foundation team yesterday on some of the open source work that they're doing. IT is about an open source and open approach to technology. The more open IT is, the more no manipulated able IT is.

I know that's an actual word, but the the Better you're going to see innovation, you're going to you'll see Better your stability in and reach to. So well, IT is really important for the masses that they have just super easy, super simple engagement with these devices because that's how you're going to get to the other seventy five percent of homes. To really get a smart experiences, you have to make make this um you know male for for the rest of us.

And and I think that that is a really important element. I hope we never get away from that. Hope we can do, see.

call stuff like that, absolutely pressure. Okay, I want to jump in, talk about all the matter stuff. We have a lot of questions and and listen questions and stuff.

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And this thing that I had known to start trusting was that shop, if I checkout process, when you're going to a new store, you don't recognize what that heart looks like, you know? And should I put my create information in here and you get a little bit nervous, but I mean, they hit that check out button and IT pulls up that familiar shop in her face. And like, I feel completely save.

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There are so many benefits to IT and and anything that I had recently learned was how you can have that shared inventory system between a physical store and an online store. I think there's amazing, especially for smaller er stories where you want to be able to start offering both, you want to start offering stuff online or you want to start doing something like in store pick ups. And trying to do that a few years ago, I feel like would have been super heart to figure how to to program that and logistically handle doing all those things.

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Okay, open. Let's get. Give me a run down. First of where matter is it's been two years. We no longer have to say matter i'll believe IT when I see IT, we can actually just say matter is here it's been two years, how how things been going? Where do we stand today and then from that sounds good.

Yeah I appreciate you again, appreciate the opportunity that coming out with the Andrew, this is a great forum and and also go to walk through the news with you. Um I sometimes i'm able to get through the news that was a lot. That was awesome.

So looking forward to even more on on the matter device side, I think you know the news reflects sound of where we are with matter. We're seen real products. We're seen real implementations.

We're seen those at scale um and we're seen great support across the platforms that know in terms of two years in that is a it's a massive milestone, is fantastic. Um we also live in reality. We know we had a lot of learning to do along the way.

Um and so two years in, I think we're we're in a really good position. Um I think as we're look at um how we've seen complex technologies like this implemented in the past, it's followed a fairly typical path. One of things I was like to talk about with the standards from the alliance is that these are not paperwork standards are not just A A call implementation could like we ll see how I get simple letter.

To do this at scale takes a lot of time, takes a lot of effort. So from the notion of where we were years ago, where all of these companies, hundreds of them, agreed and said, yeah, smart home is actually a market. Smart building, smart city is as well.

Get to those soon. The smart home is actually market, and we recognized it's not going to be one company that dominates. So we have to work together. We have to agree on and what this space and the improbability layer looks like. So good step in that direction now where we today we launched just over two years ago, which is really exciting.

It's a great time to take stock if you're at c as we're at asking great panel discussions with the consumer electronics show from some of those leaders asking the same question Andrew asking here, which is, you know how do we look what's the future look like um what do we learned so far? Um so we've learned you know a lot about stability when we talk about uh uh the implementation of a standard or specification looks great on paper. Uh some of the finest minds in the industry, both in computer science we have p hd and physics, we have p hd and electrical engineering that really kind of marry together the you know the cyber and physical worlds into into devices.

We all know that's not easy and we know that you know that this is the right answer to accomplish that. So IT is a massive effort, a massive engineering effort, but a mass of market effort to and so where we're through, I would say the large part of the engineering effort, um you know in terms of the the real details, IT is really about making sure that we continue to have the right device types are supported so they can get the good experiences. So you talked about know a lot of the really need matter ones I have most of those I don't have the um the flow control about yet and I really, really want IT, so i'll be buying that.

So um but let is make you sure the device type there. Second um the biggest thing we've seen um and you talked about IT with the level lock and I was joining commissioning. And joining commissioning has always been the pain of a lot of smart home networks.

And so we've matter is really a unifying standard. It's not early in new technology because if you bring in a new technology, just creating another one is really about bringing everybody together. So we're unifying on one approach, and that really um solves that on the on the joining and commissioning part of of the device in the smart device. So we've learned a lot, not all of IT pretty, and that's fine.

You know, I think we expect that it's not going to be you an easy slick road because that's that's how complex technology works, getting companies that are trained that you know compete against each other market um to agree on what they're going to do together also a tough part, but that you know the reason for being for organizations and communities like cars to help bring all those folks together agree on what that looks like. So really good in terms of our progress today, i'm really strong a lot of important learnings, especially on you know joining and commissioning us those parts and stability of networks and making sure that these products and devices join a network in a simple process. And you've described something that are easy and some that are less easy.

And and I think that's that's one of things that's really useful. Where's the future of matter? You also asked about, I think IT is um continuing to improve the quality, get into really know we have an ended up lab that the alliance maintains, supported by a lot of companies.

You join the alliances, become member, drop on in, come bring products, speak them up against um all the other matter products out there. You'll learn a lot and and accelerate your product in time to market. Um so as we look at that part is too little little more.

Um we will bake those back in where version one up for well, we're bringing in new device types were also bringing in improvements to to the back in the standard. Um and so I think the the future will continue to do a couple of things. One will look at new device types that that are still coming.

So you know we know cameras are in development. That's a particular early tRicky one. So the companies are working harder that will look forward to the next couple of releases.

And of course, the companies will decide when that happens based on when they are ready to, to push that through, but will continue to, to see a lot of quality improvements. And that's the benefit of both platforms supporting multiple device types, multiple functions within device types and then seeing how these work across platforms. And so you know, you've got three different axes there that you've got to work against.

IT is definitely big chAllen to deserve through IT that looks like fortunately um know we have excuse when we have the right companies, the right engineers focused on that. And then lastly on this part, um I think this is about the use cases IT. This is not technology for technology sake IT has to be related to some value to some user group that and quite recall that people can actually put put a product to and put and put put into the market and make a profit.

And so we have to recognize and allow and ensure there is an economic a component to that. Otherwise know why companies is participating this. They have have somebody somebody to something to sell to somebody um and so on.

The use case, I I think especially matter when that for we're starting to see um you know a lot of a functionality uh really focused on things like energy management and and two parts that are really important, right, which is allowing and ensuring consumers have an ability to either reduce their load to reduce their costs mainly, but second and perhaps more importantly, do in a way that doesn't require them to actively manage their energy every minute of the day. It's cool to get all these alerts. It's call to get notifications about the most important part is that just happens in the background.

And we know that that's a building matter is a critical building block to get into to that point. Already set a bunch and results say just one worthing and then i'll shot up for a second um which is you know the um the biggest thing the biggest test that I always look at is do we still have a strong community, others community members still engaged. How do I measure that? Yes, no.

Biggest measurable always be other products in the market. And are people using them in love? I in them um and that's the ultimate again, we have a part to play in some of that, not in the end of whether you love IT or not to be the company um but i'm happy to share that you know our membership continues to be really strong.

The companies that are driving this and enabling this are still here. They're still invested and in fact, they're increasing their investment. And so know I look at that as A A really strong indicator, really strong sign that this is the right place for this to happen.

Well, you had you two specific things that were analyst to ask you. So let's go into those. The first one that you brought him up, not me, cameras.

I know this is like the number one thing that people had when the ones matter. As for cameras, you said next couple releases, so yeah are on buying the releases. So that could mean like merch or next fall with matter one five in one six.

The second question with cameras is can you tell us anything about possible resolution support? You know what? Yes, you're targeting obviously know apple home. We're limited at ten A D P, which I I think is is too low in these days. What is matter kind of thinking they were around cameras because there's a whole lot of stop between even just streaming versus recording and all that. Can you tell us a little bit more about the cameras that you are working on on?

yes. I will just say personally, i'm really excited about cameras coming can happen soon enough. At the same time, I will i'll i'll give you that you kind of the the answer you'd love, which is it's up to the member companies, IT.

IT is really on them and coming to an agreement on and you talk about, right, what's the right resolution? What are the tradeoffs associated with that resolution number? How do we support compatibility for devices in the field?

Um and those are all on the table for for those companies to to really decide on. And then once they agree, you know our process is we agree on the spects we agree on of what that will look like in the first implementation, then we actually start implementing and playing with that. And so we don't release we don't release updates until companies are brought products and and actually beaten them up using the standard.

Um so well, I could be in in you know next to which I mentioned um IT really ultimately, they will be up to those. Those company is so call your favorite camera company. Incurred them to, to accelerate.

And of course, we they're working really hard. They're working there's a lot of good investment. There's a lot of good support for IT. So it's coming um and none of them ever be soon enough for any of us. But we have to respect and understand that you know it's a process together.

It's just all the time that's whatever one is all is going to have cameras. And I think it's a two reasoned one is because home kids artie is behind with its ten D P resolution like we have so many cameras that come out with two k and four k options. And while you you could dream in though was using these manufacturers that's really good apple behind.

So I know we're hoping it's going to increase from as specifically apple home use case. But also the other big player, literally, when I was getting people sending any questions about this was when is a company like growing going to support me no matter more openly? And I know amazon is big into matter.

We just talk to their new products. But ring is going to do deadly until we have a cameras because half their stuff, most their stuff, is all reliant on cameras. And ring would be a huge player to bring a lot more tarty and understanding of matter. They've a huge consumer base. So to do something like that, I think going to really help so I can see what people are coming from in wanting cameras.

Oh, absolutely. And and I think I will cut this part of the video and send IT to the attack team on the first middle. sincere. yeah. I mean, cameras are something that I think when we talk about my home devices that people know and understand, and it's really about going where they are and what they're using today.

Their cameras are a new soul over the place and it's been one of those killer apps, if you will, for smart that people understand the value, they want the value. Um do they earn more money from that? no.

Do they enjoy Better security a piece of life? yes. So that's one of the big selling points. Um and if you can connect IT um get the right kind of notification, how the right kind of routines take place when the certain things are detected on cameras there are you a long list of great areas of value for consumers to to get as a result of cameras being integrated and part of the matter ecosystem. So it's inevitable.

Um and again, like I said, none of us will ever be fast enough because we're excited about IT. And so and that group is very excited there and they are they're putting a lot of effort into IT. So it's coming.

okay. Good, good. Well, second thing that you mentioned in that in that inter, there was matter one point four. This is a huge win.

Personally, I was shocked by the number of new devices that were added in that category because I I was worried after the launch of washing machines in one update and dryers in the next. I hope this is a word like an energy manager. What's going to be a similar thing? We're going to get half of the equation at once. But no, you you guys brought everything from solar park panels to like the converters to the battery backup systems, to EV charges like you basically ran the game at there for energy management in one point four IT was really impressive.

It's a great battle, absolutely. And and I think that goes back to the point on newscasts or an energy management. We we've always had some components of energy management to be on how you use and you know different functions and what we call clusters, of course, um in the in the standard.

But it's great to see and I was impressed to right mean IT. IT is a big left to put all this functionality and. And that and even though is that you know you know your trace in out to different bases on the appliances potentially.

But if you look at this list, IT will still you will still grow. And back to my earlier point about how these will kind of get into the market, there will be will work this out. The member companies will implement this and see how this works and discover, you know, okay, solar power are great.

cool. We've got the inverted component. But may we get tweet this piece and we see how this works in the network. And so we want to update that.

So fortunately, of course, we have A A great feedback loop and mechanism to improve the functionality of the device types, equality of the the networks and the devices. But on this one, this was a big punch. And and you know we see I think in the U K.

Um and in europe, A A lot of movement around Mandates and energy management. And the great thing about matter for those use cases is too fold when you get the functionality that is going to be required for a lot of new build novation um and then the energy programs. Um the second is the security um and the security requirements that kind of piggy back on these new building requirements is pretty significant. If you look at the european market, there are incredibly high security requirements.

那 我 be achievable by using other standards that have been out for two or three decades and they they won't be upgrade able。 So the notion that companies big and medium and small can bring a device type area, whether it's a battery or heat pump of water meters, into those markets and check the box on security is a big step for for them versus trying to figure out different ways around that. So it's IT is other I don't can't tell you how many good ways and good things that are about about the the energy side here.

I know the water here is, again, that was something that a lot of people had had pointed out to me like they reached and said they were so excited to buy and same seas because i've got a standard water heater is like how much water is left? We just gave the kid aba, do we have enough water to like shower and do laundry and in dishes? And to have some visibility into that would be hugely useful. So yeah, i'm that is like an excuse now to be able to buy you how water heater, whenever we start to actually see products up to you with that because that's pretty cool.

yeah. No, IT IT is really cool. And and we continue, by the way, on appliances to move forward to. So you know, i've got a couple of miles. I love all of our member company is so I will call out which which one. But i've got a matter people washington driver that we just put in two weeks ago, and I would be in a lot less trouble at home as a result because i'm not really discipline on .

that side yeah that which that brings me to my next question, which is I feel like there is some slow ess on some of these other ones. I mean, when we're looking at appliances, we have had smart of appliances for ages. And yet we're now we've now had some of these have supported matter and we've had like no announcements on or at least very few in terms of of dish washers, washing machines, dryers, like there's not that many.

What is the csa doing that you guys have control over? Of course, that can help move that process along appliance to their huge we've never really had them in apple home on our side. So that's A A huge edition, one of the biggest perks of matter for an apple whole user. But how like i'm seeing water haters like personally, at this rate, I didn't expect to see a water heater very at least a year and a half. I mean, how can we kind of speed these things up or award what's the plan there is to help that well down.

silly. But the best way to speed things up as to, you know call your local water to provider wherever that isn't and ask him for a matter matter able device. Be little silly that front.

But I go back to the point I made earlier right now, these are big companies that are medium size companies. So they have you know long product life cycles and also long product development pounds. You look at appliances, these are not devices that will sit there for two years or three years like our phones right there. IT could be upwards of twenty years.

And i'll tell you that the washington that we replaced with fifteen years old um and so one, there's caution you know and and determining how and when to introduce technology into a device or a machine that will be there for roughly fifteen years and being effectively confident that h you'll have an ability to upgrade or you adapt those. And so this part of the market, understandably, you wants to tread carefully into that. And now having said that, there are products coming.

I don't have you ef a in berlin and just a couple months ago, but IT was great to walk around the show floor there. IT was like your news update. I mean so I was there there were a lot of in fact you mentioned some of them a cara and others um that are bringing products into the market.

Those products are single matter enabled refrigerator um by a company um like bosh cements IT will be in the millions. And well, that's european market. That's that's how we expect these to rule out um as as they look at matter enabling this.

Some of these companies have made pretty significant announcements and commitments to to bring the matter products into the market um and I think quite Frankly, that will encourage others to to tori along because what can that yeah okay, i've got to build a product for fifteen years, but I see this try to do anything. They figured that out. Why not? It's going to be a safe bet. And this is the right technology, right? I think they all understand it's it's going to be a couple of core networking technologies and it's going to be mattered for the so this matter at this point, simply a matter of getting folks out of up to date on that and get an immigration .

the process yeah, it's something weird, like a water. Here I can even tell you what brand of my water heat is. I know like, I know my stove.

I know my dishwasher, fridge, washing machines with a water heater. I couldn't even telling. They know they go call.

Yeah, exactly. Just hanging out you know in the basement, I ve got no idea who makes IT. So it's hard even like like that company, whatever IT is clearly doesn't have.

They're not marketing these. So it's something like a water heater i'm really excited by. But there is a very no one really markets and promotes smart water heating. So i'm hoping that there's going to be some driving force to get them know that there are that .

comes in a couple of ways, right? So I mean, two things with the water heater. You and I are ably we're technically sorry the most, but I don't know how you're in installing appliances.

I've installed every single kind of appliance, not in the last five years. So you have installed er in networks, right? So the installation need to know what to do with this and it's not just a matter.

We saw this with smart meters um you know in the U K. Ten years ago, which is you have installations that know how to put A A meter into the wall. Now how do they make sure that that's joining the network and getting paid to a controller er device.

So you're now also talking about you know these installed er networks that that take the song attacker this so there's an education component. So planes manufacturer need to think about that part of the experience for setting up a um setting up in the plants the second or the retailers, right? So you I don't track a water heaters probes directly.

I do know some of these. Uh we'll see those at you know at a at uh no home provant store, whether that slows or home depot um in the U S. Or another other stores globally, that's where you're going to see them.

So it's the purchase inside from no stores to say, right, we're going to bring in a regular ones, but we're also we going to have connected products. And so it's getting to that part of the the value chain to make sure that they're aware, aware that the consumers once and they know their customers Better than anybody. And so i'm sure they are hearing from customers that they would like to have these these new connector products, but there is a roll out peace, right?

So you like you just said, you don't know if the water hear uh, you know, manufacturers. So a lot of folks may not think that you could have a connected water heater in the value there. So we're just early on in that process. I'm hoping and and expecting that, that, that will that level of awareness will engage an increase in and you'll see you'll see that happen.

good.

Well, it's been a similar topic on the show of of things that are we talked a little bit about the beginning of hello is the database with items that show up what is your as a overrode ky view? How can we are seeing so many devices like the robotic backroom cleaners? What do you think of the hold up is for companies to release those updates? And do you think is there some barrier because we've seen uv robo rock ego bags? I think no when I can think of I tell my head, but I know there's a bunch of really big names that had these certifications done in like march, right? And the products are already available.

So I just a software update, but so far, we haven't seen any of them hit. And can you think of anything that could be holding them up? Obviously, they have their own strategies, but the fact that it's like the entire marketplaces like not given this robotic vacation cleaners, can you think of anything there that would be slowing that down.

going to defer to to our colleagues at those companies themselves? I think you the things that they should expect, one from the standard itself that IT is delivering the functionality that they want to, to add in the support for the ecosystems and the platforms that their customers will use as either potentially indirectly through an inter face or you know through their through their smart speakers and and other other things like that.

So I think those are perhaps part of that discussion that they use in terms of understanding when it's time to to update or bringing in this sarkies. But but at its core, IT is about know their strategy and their ability to win minds and and margin market are. And so those will always be on their side.

But I I as you can tell, you're seeing the certifications, you're seeing that they are going on this process. And IT is again an inevitable part of that product strategy and product plan is simply a matter of wind. And having said that, like guys that earlier, um you you've already hit a number of new products announced today um and I see some of those of for the holiday season and you will see more to C S.

I know you'll see more C S um and and I think you'll you continue to see this kind of no snowball in effect, which we are seen right now um which is great. So I I expect these will just pop um as as company is get ready and as they want to analyze. Um so IT is i'm not uh uh no like you said, how can we get that faster?

Uh as consumers I want a all right now um but in this role I have the privilege of knowing you know topped bottom a lot of these companies, it's the process and they have they have to do in ways that are economically responsible for them as companies to progress. So you know and I burgos that at all and it's important um I think the the general point of course is the future is standards based um and today we're shaping that future together. And so I think you know the notion and there's an recognition that um this is know now the new era of opens smart omit is not an era of know a single protocol uh by one company.

IT is an open open protocol. So uh, you're going to see these continue to pop. Um I would love to come back and spend more time on your your news portion because there's going to be a lot more of those.

i'm sure may be. We will set up for the spring with coincide with the matter one five anounced men. We to recap everything from C S. Going on.

One last thing that I just wanted to ask you about before we wrap things up, which is with as the the creator of the standard and managing this as the organization, do you feel like you have any responsibility in helping consumers understand like which devices will be supported on platforms? So like I think of a little bit like the USB f with like the USB standards where you have like a cable that can support video and like five different things. And in the smart t home space, cool, we can say things, support matter, which is great.

But then you have like apple home. Okay, apple home supports matter. And then there was we had for a while, there was a arpi fier that was matter certified also great.

And apple home without matter also supports area purifiers. But apple home didn't support that recent matter speck that added their purifiers. So that device was not compatible.

How do people know an average consumer? Because you can say matter all you want, but how do they know what isn't isn't comfortable with different ecosystems? Like is there are any way that consumers are supposed to understand that? Or how are they supposed to figure those things out?

Yeah, no, it's it's a great question and it's a very important point. I think as a community, we do have a responsibility um and and that is now how we execute that and how we make that possible. Um IT happens in a couple of different ways.

So when you're able to get to the database, that's not really something that we're going expect consumers to do. IT right in the whole notion is if IT doesn't matter, logo on IT should perform as you would expect that product to perform in the way you would expect. And that's and that's the expectation.

We recognize that in the first two years, not all the functions you know are supported with an each a device type. And again, we recognize that, that you know natural. So how can we support consumers generally along that path? And we're looking at some different ways to do that. I can't really share anything now because we're still development, but we have to do that in in concert with um the product manufacturer and the companies they own, the relationship with the consumers. And while you know I firmly believe we do as a community, have a general responsibility to make that process and everything around that process easier for consumers. We do this in partnership with with the company so uncomfortable, we will find a way there because we're all focused on on a win here in terms of getting you to that point of just a ubiquity in terms of the standard and more importantly, you back with us, uh, experiences in terms of devices, just simply joining, getting all the functionality you could possibly want.

One of IT sounds good. Anything you wanna leave us with as wrap .

the episode? You know, I think the other part IT, is hard to make your complex technology easy for consumers. And I said, I think you know that something that this audience probably knows more about than any. And I think what's important to recognize, uh, in addition, everything we talked about, this open, open era of time of open smart home is this notion of partners with other technologies. And so now we have great relationships with other sister standard story decisions like the thread group, the wifi lines.

We just had our um our member meeting uh in boot past uh two weeks ago um we welcomed the new CEO of the h bluette sig to give an idea you know that at the at the leadership level we are tightly tight because we know that none of these technologies by themselves make preferably work. And so I think you know that's important for this group to understand that IT is is really about this kind of journey, everybody and have locked army ARM to make sure this works. And this is an exciting time now it's a really exciting time.

And so there's a lot of hard work ahead. There's a lot of hard work behind that. We can now celebrate like the news today that you shared and that was that was great. So I am really grateful for the time, Andrew, as always, and and look for to talking again.

absolutely. Thank you so much for joining. Hopefully, we'll get to meet up again in january.

I see. Yes, and we'll have a lot more matter news, i'm sure coming throughout next year. Sound going to be a very big year for the smart home. So are excited about all that.

I would think .

so awesome. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us for this episode. Do what you guys do best.

Give us a five ten hundred star review on your podcast player of choice. You can take the video version of this over youtube. Dot comas, lash home, kid insider. He needs any questions that Andrew, and always with you over on twitter, you can also find me on a blue sky because that's where everyone ee's going now these days, or send me know Andrew apple and that outcome catch as the next episode.