Shownotes Transcript
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Greetings, and welcome to House of Art, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and joining me today, now that she's finished reminding me that we can't hide from our true selves, it's my favorite muse, Joanna Robinson. What a mixed compliment that is today. Thank you so much, Mallory Rubin. Mallory is just the queen of content. Can you imagine? She is here once again.
struggling through her illness to bring us fresh, fresh Daredevil takes. And we love that. Thank you, Mallory, for showing up. You're amazing. I wouldn't miss it. I feel fairly despondent about the precious in-person time that I've missed with you over the last couple of weeks. So hopefully we can get one or two more in before you depart. Great to be here. Back on the old Zoom. It's nice to see you in the studio with our beautiful
Richter special logo behind you. I miss it. Yeah. Conversely, I miss you being here, but it's also always nice to look at Grogu and Mjolnir and the rest that sit behind you on your Zoom setup. So there they are. I thought I had a couple more weeks, you know, to just really rework my home setup for the House of R, Ringerverse video era. But no, my immune system had other ideas, folks. Okay. We're here to talk about Daredevil. We're here to do a little Daredevil catch up because... Yeah.
Before I was sick, I was traveling. So it's been a minute since we have talked about Daredevil Born Again together. We will, in short order, explain the approach for today's catch-up pod. But before we just repeat, yes, Buck, yes, to each other for, you know, somewhere north of an hour, some quick programming reminders. House of R. We're ships in the night right now. We're briefly back together.
then joe is hitting the road so next week joe will not be here she will be in our hearts she will be in our souls but she will not literally be on the podcast i will have a first time house of our guests from the ringer family joining me for yellow jackets episode nine on monday jody walker jody the legend oh my god
I can't wait to hear Jodi's takes on Yellow Jackets. That's thrilling to me. I bet they're spicy. Yeah. I bet they're as spicy as a well-seasoned piece of wilderness meat. I'm so eager to see what Jodi thinks about the new season. It's a great get for that pod. And then, at the end of the week, Benjamin Lindbergh, aviator of them lads, and Daniel Chin will be joining me to talk about Daredevil Episode 8, the penultimate episode of the season, and...
Black Mirror Season 7. We're going to check in on both because we've got a new season of Black Mirror, and that's always an exciting time here on the Nerdverse. Are those updates subject to change, either in terms of the topics or the guest co-hosts? Of course. Should I be saying those things on this podcast and committing them to the public record? Probably not, but I've done it anyway. Here we are. Here we are. Over on the Ringerverse, meanwhile, already waiting for you right now, the Midnight Boys have their Daredevil Episode 7.
Instant reaction up for you. Some Spider-Man 4 nerd news up for you. A great episode of Midnight Boys. Great stuff. Always. There's also a button mash waiting for you. A new one today. Switch 2. A lot of talk about Switch 2 in the Ringer video game Slack. Check that out. And then next week, top of the week, Junior Mints. Get hyped. Mint Edition has another episode of Here Comes the Pitch on...
because it is last of a season, game adaptations. Can't wait for that one. Nice. Gonna be a fun pod. Joanna, how can everybody follow along? I'm so thrilled you asked because you can not only listen to those, you can also watch those podcasts, right? On YouTube, on the Ring of Earth channel, on Spotify, right there in the app. You just fire up the podcast. Oops, there's our faces. Our beautiful, somewhat feverish faces are here for your viewing enjoyment.
So I would just suggest you subscribe to the pod, to Ringiverse, to House of R. Why not do that? Simplest. Follow us on social, any social media platform of your choice. Maybe whatever Daniel Blake would choose. I think maybe that's the right path forward. Does that seem right to you, Mallory Rubin? Okay. I mean, it seems right to me. Okay, cool.
The world's leading Daniel Blake enthusiast. And as ever, his talk is on the rise this season, though. I'm joining you. He's going to come up multiple times today.
The inbox is always hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. You can send us. We're getting a lot of Yellow Jackets thoughts from people. Daredevil thoughts pretty thin on the ground right now from folks. We're starting to get Last of Us takes already. So you send us your Last of Us anticipation. Can I just say really quickly sort of our approach to Last of Us this season? Really just want to breeze through it. Previously...
on Yellowjack. It's previously on our coverage of The Last of Us, which was over on the Prestige TV pod.
Mallory and I were trying to pace the game with the show. So Mallory was playing and I was watching sort of like a cinematic playthrough. And we were trying to do like a no spoilers, watch the subject matter and then watch the episode and talk about it that way. We were told directly by the creators that that's not going to fly this season on The Last of Us. Craig and Neil were like, no, don't do that. So we, Mal is currently playing through the game. Yeah.
I have started my cinematic watch through. So we are going to be, we are going to have like a, basically a spoiler section, sort of similar to what we do with House of the Dragon, a book reader, game player section at the end of the pause. So there will still be like our,
You know, season one, no spoilers for what's to come, breakdown. But at the end, we'll be like, oh, my God. Right. Can you believe that they did this? And it's going to come back later when they do that. And even in that section, we'll have no idea what's coming on the show. Correct. We obviously tend to make quite a few ample adaptive changes. Absolutely. So even with the context of the game, and boy, what a journey it's been so far.
We will have a lot of Undiscovered Country ahead of us. I already got my newest favorite video of Mallory Rubin Plays Video Games filmed by Adam. I have so many more to send you guys. Great. He's basically functioning as a documentarian. Wonderful. He's like David Attenborough. He's like Crikey in the underbrush. Sorry, I said Crikey. That's Crocodile Hunter. But anyway, in the underbrush is Mallory Rubin playing a video game. It's really funny. Basically. I can't wait.
I can't wait to be back in the mushroom apocalypse with you. I'm thrilled. I'm so excited for Last of Us coverage with you. We got to go to the premiere together. It was a blast. Yeah. Is that where I got sick, you could say? Probably not. It was probably in Baltimore. You probably ate a mushroom that just has infected you. So, you know. It's possible. There weren't any mushrooms. No cordyceps fungal plates popping out of my brain yet.
And so far, just the yearning tendrils in my heart, no actual yearning tendrils emerging from, you know, any orifice. So that's good news. That's encouraging. And I love that for you. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Spoiler warning. We're talking about...
Four episodes of Daredevil today. We are catching up on, lightly, and in a kind of scattered what's in our hearts fashion, catching up on Daredevil Born Again episodes four, five, six.
six, and seven, because we have not had the chance to talk about any of them together yet. And we are doing an old favorite of ours when we have sometimes more than one episode to catch up on, superlatives. So we've got seven categories today because we are seven episodes into this season of television. I don't know, as usual, what Joanna has selected for
under each category, and she does not know what I have selected, though she probably does. We have almost all of them. We have our suspicions. My picks are about Daniel Blake. Did Daniel Blake get in a shower in the last few episodes? I can't. We could do the whole pod on the shower scene. We could. I know. We definitely could. So obviously anything that happened in those episodes and anything that has happened in Daredevil Born Again to date
could and likely will come up today. Anything that's ever happened in the Netflix Marvelverse could come up today. Anything that's ever happened in the MCU could come up today. We do have some MCU cameos and tie-ins that will, in fact, be coming up today. And, of course, some comics canon could come up today. So, you've been warned. This is the Daredevil Born Again Episodes 4 through 7 Superlative Special. I'm thrilled. Let's do it. Joanna Robinson, the devil of my heart. Yeah.
into our superlatives. Sure. Is there anything on the opening snapshot, quick thoughts front that you want to share about episodes four, five, six, and or seven? This week's episode seven, Art for Art's Sake, just a couple days old. Yeah. Episode four feels like a lifetime ago already. It sure does. Six-upper systema. Okay, so listen.
Spoilers for the superlatives. There's no category that is best episode. So I'm just going to knock that out right here. Yes, yes, please. And say my favorite episode so far this season is episode five with interest. Yeah. This sort of inside man bank heist remake episode. Yeah.
From the opening, which starts with the rocky road to Dublin, shout out to my people, the Irish, all the way to the end, the ample use of Yusuf Khan, who will probably come back up on the superlatives list. I suspect so. I just thought this was like a really—so this season has been so messy for me. There's highs, there's lows.
And throughout, I would say there are definite highs, but throughout, I would say what felt like to me is that I didn't feel the steady hands of anyone who knows how to make television on the wheel of what we were watching. I felt like episode five was,
The credited writer on that is... She has a beautiful Irish name, and I believe it's pronounced Gráinne Godfrey. And she's from the Arrowverse, the CW Arrowverse. She worked on The Flash. As you know, I'm a fan. She worked on Legends of Tomorrow. I'm also a fan of the Arrowverse, and...
A lot of those shows spun out as things that go too long often do. But in their initial seasons, when they were being made, it was just highly competent, weekly superhero storytelling. Yes. And that's what episode five with interest felt like to me. I know a lot of people didn't like it. It felt like we were pressing pause on season long arcs and all this sort of stuff like that. I just thought it was just such a good, this is what an episode, a very basic, not like...
the height of art, which I think like Daredevil and Netflix achieved. But if you want like basic, competent, weekly superhero storytelling, then,
I had so much fun with that episode. I thought, you know, the Irish robbers were great. I thought this was a... Stay tuned for more of my superlatives. I thought this was a great time to shine for Charlie Cox. I thought he was, like, wonderful in this episode. Really let him do a lot of different flavors of Matt in a really enjoyable way. We got to see the charm. We got to see the violence. We got to see everything. And I thought,
And then, yeah, an excellent use of use of con and excellent like sort of loose connective tissue to the rest of the MCU. So that is something I want to say. I want to say I think in general, I think that Cherry and the men have always talked about this. But I think that Cherry and Kirsten are like complete failures this season. And I feel confident saying that like I we were talking about that early on.
And then, you know, I felt like we got some pushback of like, wait and see, wait and see. Well, okay, we're seven episodes into a nine episode season. And like, I just think they, whether it has to do with how they had to recut the season or whatever, I don't know what it is. But if these are our,
Foggy and Karen replacements or even just like leaving, letting the like shadow of Foggy, if this is just the infrastructure around Matt, it's not working. It's not fleshed out in a way that makes a ton of sense to me. I think Heather is actually a less of a failure than I was worried she was towards the beginning of the season. I thought episode seven for
For all my feelings about it, high and low, I thought it was a really good Heather episode. And, you know, she's starting to feel like a real character. I really agree with the Midnight Boys. I think it was Charles who raised this point that it
It does feel a bit like ooey-gooey, sticky storytelling for her to be Kingpin's therapist, Muse's therapist, and Matt's girlfriend. That's just like a lot for one character to be in the middle of. But I think the performance is good. And again, she starts to feel like a real person in a way that Sherry and Kirsten have not yet been able to get to. I will say did not...
like reflect well on her intelligence that she was unable to sniff out Muse until he started like drawing himself in blood. Um,
How could we know? We didn't see a single scene with them between that definitive session and the book signing. So how could we possibly say what her deductive reasoning is? It would have been so nice to have seen them all season. I feel like, you know, we talked about the like Dex and his therapist relationship in the original series. And I don't know why we didn't get like sort of we got more sessions with Dex and his therapist, which was like a one off thing.
of an episode than we got in a season of these two. They basically turn Muse into fan of the opera who once took Taekwondo. It doesn't make a ton of sense and it doesn't feel necessarily impactful. I have a lot to say here. I'm sorry. I'm almost done here. I'm not sure I'm seeing the reckoning that people who liked the first few episodes felt sure was coming with White Tiger's death and Matt's missteps around it. I don't feel like it's weighing as heavily on him as I'd like it to. His...
absolute responsibility for this. I understand that Matt is weighted down by trauma. We keep seeing him fingering Foggy's memorial card. That is happening. But I don't feel like I see a reckoning or a true rebuke for how abysmal his lawyering was. I don't feel like the show is trying to
say that was a terrible turn for Matt. I don't think the show is judging him the way that I wish it would. Last but not least, shout out to three performances who will not make the superlatives. John Benjamin Hickey as D.A. Hochberg. I miss you. Yeah, same. I miss you a lot. Catherine Lanassa, who plays the incredibly named Artemis Sledge, basically the other...
High society New Yorker that Kingpin interacts with who's not Jackie King. She plays the legend Nurse Dana Evans on The Pit right now, and she's having a great, like an absolute killer time on television. So I love to see her. And then for the indie cinema sickos of the early aughts,
Lou Taylor Pucci is Adam. Lou Taylor Pucci, who was in, in 2000, between 2005 and 2007, was in a film called Thumbsucker, Chum Scrubber, and The Go-Getter. And this was like, these were like Sundance smashola hits. He was sort of this like, alterna Joseph Gordon-Levitt for a second until he wasn't. But I'm just like, Lou Taylor Pucci and his hands got Vanessa? Okay. All right. So,
So that's sort of all the takes I wanted to get off that won't be involved in the superlatives. Mallory Rubin, where are you with episodes four through seven? Don't worry. We'll have another opportunity to talk about Adam's hands. It'll come up again today. Great. Actually, perhaps more than once. Spoiler, now that I think about it. Interesting. I...
Part of why I'm glad that we're doing the superlatives catch up on these four episodes is that I actually really quite enjoyed four and five. I wondered upon first viewing whether my...
you know, canonically established obsession with John Bernthal's Frank Castle was just the only reason why I liked For So Much, but revisiting that one, there was actually a lot about that episode that I really enjoyed. Some stuff still that didn't work for me inside of it. You know, I think overall my feeling on the season is still mixed, but mixed perfectly.
positive. But four, there was just a lot in it that gripped me and that compelled me. And I thought to that point, it was the best episode of the season. And still now for me through seven, it is my favorite of the season. Four? Four, yeah. That's wild. Okay. I also, it just had, it had like a few of my favorite scenes of the season so far. Absolutely. That I agree with. Emotionally richest text. So that like carries, I think, a lot of weight. I did not ever think I would, I would hear Fiddle Farrell, Carmel. I say I'm a Caramel fan.
Sayer, but Carmel Korn uttered that many times in one episode of television. And I still can't believe it. But here we are. The fiddle faddle mentions in an episode was one thing. It was then listening to Midnight Boys after and hearing Van say it like 100 times. And I felt like I was losing my mind. That's what drove me. I really enjoyed Five as well. I thought I agree with you. I thought it was just a great, fun, contained episode of television. And it is the episode in this season that...
compelled me to continue to assess my stance of like,
well, maybe it is okay to try new things and to try a different approach to a daredevil season. And like, keeps me still with one. I don't, I'm not going to say I have one foot there. I'm actually pretty firmly back into the, you know what we like to make more of that, uh, camp. I'm pretty, pretty staunchly positioned there now, but, um, that's the episode that made me most confident that a certain version of this season that was more like contained tale of the week could have actually been quite fun to watch. I'll be a very different from the show that we had seen before. Uh,
A lot of my picks today are coming from episodes four and five. Spoiler. I do have picks from all four episodes, but a lot of my – I'm four and five heavy. Six I thought was fun, but not as strong for me as four and five. And then seven is my least favorite of the season so far. There was stuff in seven that I liked still, but it had the highest volume of moments that made me go, huh? Just like inexplicable bits of logic or –
You mean like someone, and I'm really mad that the Midnight Boys talk about this because this was going to be my favorite take, but do you mean that it's not the same thing to run your fingers down the 3D profile of your lover's face and then a 2D painting? Correct. I mean that, and I mean all aspects of that, the original face rubbing, the rubbing of the paintings, the flashing back then to the rubbing of the actual face from mere moments prior.
High on my list now of examples to cite of a tendency in TV that drives me bonkers. To your Cherry point, like Cherry going in and lecturing Matt about his decision to become Daredevil again is one of the least compelling things I've seen on TV in a minute. Like are we supposed to care about Cherry's indictment of Matt's chosen path? I have no investment in that relationship, so why would his stance –
move me at all the way that a foggy challenge would have in the past. It's just like not working. And then just little things like, you know, two cops initially going down to take pictures of Muses Lair. It's like this serial killer has murdered 60 plus people and used their
blood to make paint we don't have like legions of people down there where's the CSI team yeah and I think everything with Luca is just a complete complete flop for me it's just such a lame like it's just such a lame character um
So, you know, there were – and then, like, I think the thing we already briefly talked about, I found – I did also like the inside of the Heather and Muse sequence. You know, the tension was palpable. I thought ultimately the fight, like Matt shooting a grappling – surging a grappling hook through Muse's chest and then pulling him back onto the canvas to, ah, Muse, you would have loved it if you hadn't been dead. Use his blood as a paint. Yeah.
Quite fun to watch. I thought that was all really interesting, but it was hard for me when, when Muse and Heather were reaching their climactic moment of the big reveal, um,
to feel like I understood how we got there other than him literally repeatedly saying, like, your books, they had a big influence on me. You, you were not just the conduit, you were the key. Give us a couple scenes with those characters. 100%. So Seven felt like a real boiling pot of all of the stuff we've talked about across the season where, like, you can feel the, what's missing or what was shoehorned in and how that is not quite fitting together in a way that is, like, was as successful in that episode as other parts of the season. But...
Overall, I think there are more episodes that I've – oh, you know what? This is a small one, but this was like – this would have been a classic on a Rewatchables episode, Picking Knits.
Matt can take Heather home because she has minor lacerations and no concussion. Muse shoved her through a wall and then picked her up at his head level and shoved her down into the floor and sliced through her arm. Take her home. No concussion. No concussion. She's fine. Don't worry about it. Minor lacerations. I mean, well, that's like the time that Matt dropped the cop on his head and he was fine. So yeah, seven was not a huge fan. Four, five, and six had a lot of fun. Four and five in particular were.
Eager for 8-9, still anticipating perhaps, for reasons I can't quite articulate, a strong finish. I think because we're—and this will come up a lot in the superlatives picks, no surprise—we're heightening our—
our dark mirror thematic examination in a way that I'm, you know, consistently compelled by in a Daredevil story. So I'm hoping for a strong finish. We'll see. I'll miss getting to chat about the penultimate with you next week, but we will be back together to discuss the finale and the season as a whole and where season two might go. So not our last Daredevil chat, but it is time to highlight some things that stuck with us from these four episodes of television. What got its grappling hook into us, Joe? Where did we put that epoxy on so that the paint didn't
Could not be removed. Let's get – I will say – Do it. This isn't on my superlatives list, but like, it's blood. It's human blood. Was a great moment of television. Genuinely iconic. Yeah. And like, that also felt like a kind of classic Daredevil-like moment where you get these just New York –
Through and through New York characters. Like, that guy was more so than many of the people I think we've seen in these BB Report interstitials, a New York character. And that was quite amusing and very fun. Sheila was not amused, but I was. Yeah. And you were. Yes. And that's what counts. All right, Joe. Let's start our –
Episode four through seven, superlatives. Favorite scene from any of the episodes. What do you got? I think it's not even close. As much as I didn't think it worked inside of the episode, it has to be the Punisher and Matt scene in episode four. I think, and as we talked about it when we covered it in your absence, like it really felt like a very clearly, they've talked about how it was a lift from a later episode into episode four to get similar to how they had that like diner scene between
Matt and Fisk at the beginning of the season, they were just sort of like, we got to get Frank in there earlier or else people are going to be bummed and being like, where's Frank? And so, you know, they put that in there. I don't think it works with the rest of the episode, but in isolation, if you're like, what's your favorite scene? Pull it out of the show and talk about it. It's, it's Frank and it's Matt.
This is as close as we've gotten to some of that religiosity. I feel very strongly that Matt should either be bleeding or crying or preferably both at any time on the show. And Frank got in there like, but quick. Bleeding and then crying. Very compelling. Yeah. We're talking about fog. We're really feeling the weight of...
of something in a way that I don't, you know, whether it's because Matt is repressing or whatever it is, in the way that I don't necessarily feel it elsewhere. I like that it was sort of like grimy and underground. I'm really not loving this sort of like
Bright daylight all the time, Daredevil. So the fact that we're down in a basement with Frank feels right to me, feels as it should be. And yeah, Johnny B was his usual self. Except long-haired and bearded. What a treat! What a joy for you. Oh my God. So I feel like...
I feel like in terms of your dark, you know, the show is obviously very trying to do dark mirror Fisk and Matt. We get intercuts between fights where they're using similar moves. We're watching Matt go underground into the tunnels and Fisk go down underground into his like little atom layer and like all this sort of stuff like that. But it's not hitting the way it hit with Frank has always hit.
With Frank and Matt and and no half measures and and all of the conversations that they had. And it's like one of the few things that has ever, I think, lived up to the heights of what we got in in the original series. So that I think is a clear answer for me.
Yeah, me too. We'll reveal one of our later categories, which is like the great return to form or something about like the OG formula kind of shining through. And certainly we could have picked this for that category, but it feels like it transcended it beyond. I'm sorry. I couldn't.
I couldn't think of another answer for this or another answer for that. I was like, it's just... It certainly fits the brief for both of them. For the other one, I went with something where I'm latching on to something that I'm hoping is returning, but we'll get there. Yeah, the return of the Punisher, Frank and Matt at the end of episode four is my favorite scene of the season as well. I thought this was just...
utterly and completely vintage. And I loved everything about it. And I could have happily watched nine episodes of these two in a dark, grimy room together, punching each other
in front of each other and hurling vessels of beverages in the vicinity of each other. And I would have been thrilled. And this is the scene, this is the opposite of what I was saying a few minutes ago about how like episode five was my, oh, maybe I'll keep a toe in the, yeah, let's reinvent. Let's try a totally different format. This is to me the like, no, the argument's over actually. Yeah.
Give me the original. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know not just what worked, but what was actually like transcendent about the original Daredevil series when it was operating at that specific frequency. And we do actually clearly still have the ability to continue to do that. So it would be really great if we were doing that. Maybe we'll be more in the future. Our dark mirrors, our there but for the grace faves back in a room. What a treat. No one.
Obviously, Matt and Fisk are ultimately the core dark mirror pair of the entire Daredevil television experience. But nobody calls Matt out as effectively as Frank. I just love any time he issues one of these rebukes in the original series or inside of this scene here at Matt. I'm just kind of like blown back by it in a way that I love as a viewer. Are you?
of service, Red? Did you serve? You prance around the city in a Halloween costume beating the snot out of guys. Thanks for your service. I don't have time for your candy-ass hero shit. Is that clear? But then the best, of course, is like, I think you want my permission. The way that he's able to
read Matt. Yeah, yeah. And that it is simultaneously true but also wrong. And the thing that Matt identifies and part of him longs for but he fears and he knows is the line that he can't allow himself to cross. It just makes their, it's like an ever-renewing resource, their interactions, because there's that core connection
dilemma driving them. The way that this, to your larger point about what is Matt carrying, suppressing, ready or not ready to consciously interrogate, the way that this encounter, briefly, unearthed that and Frank just said the guilt, the shame, that's my home. And then
The way that Mac couldn't, like, the emotions just spilled out of him. Yeah. I thought was so moving and impactful. And I love, I had not thought should always be bleeding and crying until you texted me. But once you did, I couldn't, I don't have a counter argument. Yeah. I do not have a counter argument. And I think you are right. When Frank said,
You come at me with that horseshit about saving lives. How about that friend of yours? You save his life. You lost him, didn't you? I was just like, I was like shaking. Like, it was like, this is it. This is what we've been waiting for. And, you know, they're both just so good and so good together that to go from the kind of like frantic screaming of Frank, like say his name, say his name, you coward, to the
For Frank, almost like uncontrollable, quivering emotion of he talks to you, doesn't he? You hear his voice, don't you? That is so then tied to Frank's history and Frank's trauma and Frank's loss and Frank's grief. But then the thing about a Punisher Daredevil scene is like, you're so kind of... I'll speak for myself. I'm so compelled by Frank's logic the bulk of the way. And then Matt always lands the winning punch, like not necessarily literally, but like kind of thematically, right? In a way that feels so crucial for their relationship. Like...
when they were talking about Foggy and Matt screamed about Bullseye, he got life, and Frank ran through all the reasons that that was not an acceptable thing to say or think or believe. And then Matt said Foggy was the kindest, purest soul I ever met, and guys like you and me, we could work a lifetime and never measure up to his decency. It's like,
That is so crucial. Like, what did Foggy mean to Matt and how did he guide him in his life? And now, how is he guiding him or anchoring him in absentia just feels essential to where Matt is right now as a character. So I was, like, so grateful to hear Matt talk about it for just a second. This is the thing I'm, like, I think most hopeful about.
they're saving more of for the end of the season. And I really, really, really hope. I hope we get it. Your favorite Karen. Let me tell you something. You miss her. I'm prepared to issue a formal apology. Yeah, you miss her. Badly! I want to go back to, you know, I always love a Mallory Rubin line readout. I think that the word choice of prance is so perfect. I absolutely love it. And I was thinking of Frank and Matt
In episode seven, when they're fighting, they're fighting, fighting tooth and nail, they're fighting tooth and nail. And then Heather just shoots Muse. And I feel like Matt was like, babe, we don't kill people like that. We throw them downstairs and then pretend we didn't. And say they're fine. Yeah, we don't shoot people. That's not what we do here. Oh, my God. Great stuff. Speaking of bullet spray. Yeah.
grappling hooks, punches, and any other aspect of a brawl that you would like to incorporate. Our next category is sickest fuck. I think I'm going to fail this prompt, but I had to answer truthfully from my heart. I feel like everyone listening at home is going to disagree with me, but that's fine. Okay. Because we saw a lot of carnage in the last couple episodes. A lot of violence, yeah. For me...
It's the episode five stairwell fight of Matt versus one of the robbers where he's using his tie in a lot of the action. It's close-up action where he has to, like, catch... Get to the real reason you picked it. It's the thigh head choke. That's not nothing. No.
Good old Saeed. But, like, it's a... And he has to, like, catch the gun before it drops, lest it make a sound. Yep. All of that stuff I really, really liked. And then... And stands in such stark contrast to almost every other... Not so much in the Muse fight, but almost every other fight, there's a moment of...
CGI choice that I'm just sort of like, why? Like at the end of episode five, when he's got the mask on and is fighting the head robber in the sort of alleyway under classic New York...
That's a great fight. I really loved that one too. Until this like weird CGI double leap onto the broken leg moment at the end. That's just sort of like, it's gross, but it's also cartoon. And I just really, really on a Daredevil fight want to feel just like every punch, every blow. And so like when Matt just like,
zips in, swings in Spider-Man style into some of these various fights. It just like really takes me out of that, like brawling sense that I want. And so I felt like that stairway fight in episode five was like a true brawl, a true, just like scrambling for purchase brawl. Um,
And I loved it. And I also love an improvised props in a fight. So the Thai stuff really worked for me. Matt was just like walking downstairs, like loosening it, you know, and they just like whipped it off and like worked some absolute magic. The way too that he like folded up his walking stick to get ready. You're like, oh shit. Oh shit, here it goes. Yeah, exactly. That was really fun. Yeah, that's my runner up. I really liked that as well for –
all the reasons that you mentioned that like really kind of tactile, close, proximate, um, painful, filthy, intimate nature of a, a daredevil TV brawl. I think it's, it's, it's, um, second still on the season overall to the fight with the dirty cops in episode two at the end of the episode, which was just, you know, sense of the boy. I can still feel those, uh,
those broken arm snaps and the, the, the shoving of the head into various freezers, tables, floors, et cetera. But, and I loved when Matt and the callback was like to Powell. Yeah. Except you'd have to bring more men this time. Wouldn't you like Matt talking shit is always fun. But in terms of the, uh,
Episode set in question today. I think that's a great pick. I don't think people will. You think people didn't like that fight or they'll be like, how could you not pick something else? I actually am not talking to a ton of people. I don't have any man on the street experience with Daredevil. I don't actually know a ton of people who are watching it. You're not doing your version of the BB report? I'm not doing my BB report. No, the JR report is not in full effect.
I felt like I saw some chatter of people just like really not liking that episode. So I feel preemptively defensive of it. I really liked it. I liked it too. And then I liked in the alley fight, the aforementioned alley fight that Matt, you know, took Mr. Red's mask and put it on because we're like, oh, gateway mask. We're inching closer. Yeah, gateway mask. I was expecting him to...
Well, I mean, we do need to go to accent quarter. Charlie Cox's like Belfast accent. Kind of hilarious. But anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I love the mask moment in that. Also very helpful with a stunt double if you've got a mask on your face. For sure. But yeah. Yeah. Great pick. I think that's a great pick. I know. I know because of something you said already today that you're not going to like my pick, but that's OK. Yeah. Here we are. Yeah.
Sharing our passions with each other. Yes. It's beautiful. I am going with the, the aforementioned intercutting at the end of episode six between Fisk and her poor sweet artist hands. Yeah.
and Matt and Muse. I really, really agree and co-sign with the CGI point and the swinging across the city and into battle point. I'm not vibing with that either. I'm with you. Once we actually, you know, I think I'm picking this because I found it to be a compelling...
albeit not subtle, but ultimately compelling, leaning into that dark mirror Fisk-Matt pairing. And just more specifically, so much of this season has been both of them telling themselves, trying to tell themselves, telling other people, telling each other that they're not the same person anymore. And to see the way that they both in this kind of mirror fashion slid back into their prior tendencies, their prior selves,
I found compelling and like I think in the Matt versus Muse aspect of it, which was the less successful of the two fights for me that we were cutting between for a number of reasons. But I did in terms of what got us there. Yeah. Matt, Soledad calling Matt.
about Angela and then Matt calling 911 and letting just that second that was a great moment and then fuck it I was like hell yeah that was great that carried a lot for me that was just really really great and then suiting up and going in terms of Matt versus Muse especially because of you know the conversation with both Matt and Muse and Heather about like the
what you are hiding or heightening when you have a mask on. It was interesting to watch these two men in a mask face off and like what the two sides of that can be when you choose to put that costume on, that suit on. And then of course, like any moment where we watch Matt walk a line of savagery and that question of what pulls him out on it, like wrapping Matt,
chain around Muse's neck and pulling him up and then like Angela's heartbeat and the slowing of it pulling him out. I actually thought storytelling wise in the episode was very silly because like Matt It was so aggravating to me. I'm just like knock him out.
Yeah, totally. And save the girl who's being exsanguinated at this very moment. I completely agree. Like, from inside the episode and in terms of just like, okay, so they have to get Muse to the next episode. I found that very aggravating. I like to think Matt is, like, smarter and, frankly, more deft than that at navigating a situation. And also the in-story explanation that Muse took Taekwondo and so could go blow-to-blow with Matt is just, like, very silly. But anyway, yeah. Yes. Okay.
Yeah. Though I did think that in the muse getup, the shoulders were very broad. Correct. And the muscles were very muscly. Correct. They were. The muscles were, in fact, muscly. They were very muscly. Yeah. But, you know, just like Matt kind of being pulled toward the light out of the dark, more effective than the actual storytelling choice there. Wilson versus Adam.
You know, we have now more than one moment where we've seen him kind of like stomp heavily down into hell, back into this monstrous circumstances state that he tells himself, am I a monster? Yeah.
A very fee-fi-fo-fum. Very, no one has ever, I think, lumbered as much as he has been lumbering in these episodes. Quite. And before we get to hear him scream mine about Vanessa, disturbing. Have to say disturbing. We got to, we got to.
a little callback to our favorite Hammer, you know, when he's got the axe and he's talking about his upbringing and the things that he learned from the people around him. And I learned that a simple tool can be a great equalizer. So to take this like defining moment in his life and basically use it to taunt and toy with and torment this person who he considers a source of something of a betrayal now in his life was, I thought, really interesting. And then, of course, the bludgeoning and absolute beatdown
Taking place in front of Rabbit in a snowstorm. That was delicious. So I liked that. I liked that. Should we go from violence to sex? It's all the same to Matt Murdock, honestly. Truly. So much blood in the shower. So much blood in the shower. Our next category today, Jo, is...
sexiest sequence I'm gonna is your answer the shower sex it's not okay weird okay great I guess okay I was gonna leave that to you shocking pic coming oh my god is it Daniel Blake I'm upset okay
No, it's not. The shower sex, I guess, will be my pick. The shower sex that was promised in the trailer. Now fucking time. Great stuff. He's actively bleeding and smooching at the same time. It's a misdirect from her asking troubling questions. I really thought when he got his thigh slashed by Muse in that fight, I really thought later...
Heather would put it together when they were back home and presumably back in the shower and his thigh was slashed in the same place. But as of yet, Heather, great hair, not great observational skills. Okay. She did. She spotted the like,
lower rib side bruise. Yeah. And she's like, what are you doing? And he's like, I go for walks and bump into things. I'm blind, Heather. Dear God. This is embarrassing, sweetie. Listen, I'm with you on the let's put this together faster front, especially when you're sharing plot lines with every meaningful character. Quickly getting distracted by Matt Murdock passionately kissing you in the shower. Folks, who among us? I have a postscript.
Have you heard, and this is going to take us down an alleyway that I'm sorry, I think we need to go down together because we haven't talked about this. Have you seen, and this is related honestly to the show, I promise. Have you seen the Michael Fassbender interview on Graham Norton where he talks about the gloves he wore in the film, The Killer? I don't think so. I've seen the film, The Killer. Okay. I'm going to give you some quotes and then we're going to come back to Daredevil. He told, on Graham Norton, he said,
We tried different gloves. We had leather gloves made, but David wanted gloves that were super sleek and
So they went with what are known as fisting gloves from the BDSM community. And Fassbender says, we went through quite a lot of them actually because I spoke to the prop guy and he said, there are no more fisting gloves left. We bought all the fisting gloves off this company. Okay. So Michael Fassbender squeezed an entire company dry of all of their fisting gloves supply. So when Muse shows up in the fight and he is wearing these like up
to the elbow yep tight as can be gloves I was like are those just like opera length fisting gloves I don't know but I had some questions about it did you do some research I have no answers hobbitsanddragons.gmail.com if you're from the BDSM community if you're from the like I like to paint with bodily fluids community actually don't email us if you're from that community I think we yeah
But it made me think of that and I realized that I hadn't talked to you about it and it just felt like something that you should know, Mallory, but in case you didn't, that in The Killer, Michael Fassbender is wearing fisting gloves.
I want to sincerely thank you for sharing this knowledge with me. You're welcome. I'm looking forward to revisiting the film, a film I quite enjoyed and a performance I quite enjoyed. Oh, it's a wonderful film. Wonderful movie. And this is just a cherry, the tight latex cherry on the top of the sundae that is that film. My rewatch will be enriched by this exchange. You're welcome. So thank you. I love cinema. Thank you for that. You love cinema and you love learning. Yeah, I do. I love a fun fact.
You love an ocean vista, but you hate a crevice. Well, if you have a fissing glove, what are you going to do? Well, I'll eat up for you right there. Great pick. I did not pick the shower scene. The other thing that I briefly considered picking was the scene in episode four between Matt and Sophia haggling over probation. Pretty sure you snuck a piece of honey cake for breakfast, but can't pick it because I'm going to stand on my corner, a corner I know you inhabit. Yeah.
Matt Murdock, stop telling women you can smell what they ate. When you said episode four was your favorite, I almost said, even though he told another woman that he could smell what she ate for breakfast. Against my better judgment, I found myself quite compelled by that exchange. But then I was annoyed with Matt once again. It's like, Matt, you're very magnetic.
Next time Karen walks into your apartment, don't tell her you can smell the curry from a couple days ago. And this lovely prosecutor, Sophia, I don't think she wanted you to tell her that you could smell the honey cake she snuck for breakfast. On the one hand, I would agree with you. On the other hand, I don't know. She seemed compelled. She seemed into it. She's like, are you Mr. Right? Yeah. She seemed quite compelled. Could be for probation. Yeah. I'd watch another scene with those two. Sure. I think I'm...
I'm more ready for Matt to engage in a different romantic interlude than you are with respect to Heather. No, you're not enjoying Heather and that's fine. And I don't think she's wonderful at all. I just think this was like, I just think of all the new characters. Yeah. Surprisingly, she's the one that is sort of coming together the most for me. And it still feels not enough. Third on your list after Buck Cashman and Daniel Blake. It's Buck Cashman, because...
The world's most nuanced character. Some incredible stuff from our guidebook, Cashman, in these episodes. Dr. Heather Therapist. That's her last name, right? And then, sorry, it's a double barrel. Dr. Heather Therapist author. And then Daniel Blake. That's my ranking of new characters, yes. Strong top three. I like it. I don't mind it. Okay. Here's what I'm picking. Buckle up.
This is one of the weirder things I've ever done on one of our superlative pods. I'm like, let me tell you a fun fact about fisting gloves. You were like, hold my beer. Here we go. You're going to maybe, you're going to wonder if this honors the spirit of the prompt, but I thought this was sexy, genuinely. And also just wanted to talk a little bit more about actually my favorite character from these four episodes, Devlin.
My favorite hot hijacker and bank robber. Mr. Green. Great. This guy should be super famous. He's so hot. How can I not pick him? He's...
What I loved about him, I love that you're picking this and I'm sorry, I'm going to let you monologue. I will just say the inside man comps were so strong. They literally filmed in the same bank. It's all on page. To be able to be in the Clive Owen role and just sort of like completely rise to the occasion. 10 out of 10, no notes.
Go for it. I spent some time on Killian O'Sullivan's IMDb. I won't lie to you. I can't believe his name is Killian O'Sullivan. Are you kidding me? This is just like an incredibly magnetic performance. He's wonderful. A fast-talking, salty asshole who is extremely rude, but...
Either despite that or, let's be honest, because of it, incredibly hot. Really worked. It really, really worked. When he said he was on the hostage negotiation call with Angie and said, whom? I'm not going to try to do the accent. But he said, whom?
elocution off the top. I was just like, you know, the way he was flirting with Misty. I just looked at his IMDb page. Yeah. The Trekkies stay winning. He's going to be on Strange New World season three. Is it time, Mallory? I think it might be. I think it might be. I have to spend more time with him. Also, I know who he's playing and this is actually a big deal who he's playing. So, OK. Fascinating. Fascinating. Oh, my God. I can't wait to tell you. You've convinced you don't need to tell me anything else. I'm in.
It's going to be a love triangle. I'm very excited. I won't tell you what. OK, actually, now, how much time do I have to catch up? You've got time. They just put out the trailer. You've got time. OK, I will be there. I just like I have I have a new passion and I will be there joining you. Let me tell you, though, my single favorite thing that Devlin said, please.
He's asking where Matt's from. Matt's like Hell's Kitchen. He says, before the big swim, Mr. Smartass. And Matt says, I don't know. I was raised in an orphanage. And then Devlin says, Jesus wept a blind solicitor and hold for it. An orphan? Are you bloody serious? You're like a regular wee Charles Dickens character. I just fucking loved this. Really well written. It was amazing. It was wonderful.
My new Daredevil Born Again crush is Devlin the Bankrapper with a twist. If this is how we get you into Stranger Worlds, a win across the board. It was all worth it. It was all worth it. Okay, you supported my Devlin pick. I'm thrilled. Wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. So much so that I was like, can Devlin come back for another episode? I want to know, how's he doing? I mean, the leg break was severe. Is he healing nicely? I hope so. Will we be checking in Dare to Dream? Yeah. Perhaps my...
deep and abiding and instant passion for Devlin is something that I should discuss in therapy, which brings us to our next category. What was the best? Everyone can use therapy moment for you in these episodes. I don't know if I fully understand this prompt, but I didn't ask you a follow-up question because I have only one answer to you and it's this. I wrote it down in my notes like incredulously. Okay. In episode six, Matt is talking to Angela and
And she's like, ugh, that therapy talk. And he goes, was I doing that? Kind of hate that too. Matt, you're dating a therapist. Matt, you are dating a therapist. And then the next episode, Heather's like, is this some form of self? I was like, Heather, he hates therapy talk. This is not the way forward. I was just like, Matt, what are we doing? We hate therapy talk and we're dating Heather, whose last name is therapist author. Like, what are, like, what?
Look inwards, Matt. What are we doing here? So I don't know that this is exactly what you had in mind when you said everyone could use therapy, but I was just like, of all the notes that I took over these episodes, that one was just like underlined for me so many times. Therapy talk, I kind of hate that too. I'm like, Matt, what are you talking about? The way that he mockingly, when she was starting talking about his trauma bubbling up in a way that was going to ruin the good things in his life, and he's like, thank you, Dr. Glenn. Yeah.
Thank you, Dr. Glenn. And she's like, my last name is therapist author. Why are you calling me Dr. Glenn? Yeah, she's like, quit it. Don't do that. Oh, man. Matt. Matt. Okay. You know, just thinking of these scenes in their apartment, the one thing I will say about the daylight, which I obviously broadly agree with in terms of the palette I'm expecting from the show, is that it's a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very
It has allowed me to identify in a way that the initial darker episodes with the giant word mark from screeners couldn't. The white wall is actually a painted brick. Yeah. Some texture there. Yeah. So I've warmed ever so slightly to the apartment, but still think it's a fucking crime that we're not in the loft. God damn it. There is some kind of neon happening outside the window, though. We get, like, glimpses of it. It's not the same as the billboard, but it's like there is a neon sign, like,
across the street around the corner that I saw in one of the later episodes. Okay. I love your interpretation of the prompt. It's an open one. It could be something that happened in a session of therapy because we've had so many sessions of therapy and that is what I did. Or it could be someone who should be in a session of therapy.
Or it could be someone who fears to go to a session of therapy. Any of these are valid interpretations of the prompt. It's been a very therapy-forward season of TV, so I felt like we should engage with that song now. And I personally love therapy and think everyone should be in it. Okay, go ahead. And it's benefiting some people in the show. Didn't work for Muse. Is it working for the Fisks, though? I think it might be. And I would like to talk about another reason that I liked episode four. Okay. I thought the...
let's talk about the affair scene with Heather Wilson and Vanessa was...
There's something in it that I thought was quite silly and have some notes on, but broadly I enjoyed this sequence. First of all, just the way that the physical positioning of the characters has evolved over the course of the season. We enter this scene and Vanessa is in the middle of the couch and is inching back toward Wilson physically, but emotionally as well. When Heather said, used the word, invoked the word affair, the way that Wilson was like muttering, stupid, ridiculous.
It's not a dinner party. It's a betrayal. I really quite enjoyed that. And then Vanessa building toward like, you left. That was the betrayal. Like you leaving me to go be an echo. That was the betrayal. And there was some comedy in this stretch. Like when Vanessa's like, are you asking for details? Yeah.
about Adam. And then the way she started to describe his hands. I told you the hands would come up again in the sketches. And Wilson is cringing and he's so uncomfortable. But the way that she talked about Adam's art, it was so clarifying, right? It's like, it's not just that she fucked another dude. She fucking
fucked an artist. She was sleeping with an artist, a portal back into her old life, like her pre-Wilson existence. And specifically then when she said like, he wasn't a part of my husband's world. First of all, you get the what world is that politics? And then in unison, Wilson and Vanessa saying business. So you feel that like harmony between them still and hasn't quite been lost yet. Recycling the wagons. Yeah. Yeah. This idea that like, one of the things we really had fun talking about
In our catch-up pod, our revisitation of the three Netflix seasons and our top moments from that experience was like the way – and the beginning of this season as well, the way Vanessa had embraced, had said, let me into this world in full. It's not like she got dragged into something she didn't want to be a part of. She's good at it. She wants to be doing it.
And so it's even more of a withering blow that she would say, take me back to like where I was before, because it's not this for for Wilson to have to confront that I thought was important. Here's the part of the scene that didn't work for me when it became quite literally a therapy. Mad Libs. When Vanessa was like, what did it trigger for you?
I'm going to talk about my father for a minute and my parent issues and let me talk about abandonment, drinking, gambling behavior toward my mother all in the span of like 30 seconds. It's like, okay, that feels like a little heavy handed, but I did still like in terms of a character insight for Vanessa when she said of her mother, I never respected her for that. Yeah.
Right? Like, I watch her be crushed down by this and just stay. And that that would be something that was informing the way Vanessa viewed, especially the way the scene ends with this, like, conversation about
And forgiveness, the way Vanessa views what you gain from forgiveness, but also what maybe you're losing, what you're trading off and what you're sacrificing inside of yourself. And then I just liked thinking about that idea of forgiveness, especially because Heather is a bridge across these character sets for Matt. Like, is Matt going to be able to forgive himself? So all in all, I thought that scene was...
An interesting and rich text and part of why episode four beyond just Frank and the honey cake was one that I quite liked. Frank and the honey cake, a spinoff I would definitely watch. Same. Joe, it's time for the category we really came here for today. Okay.
It's the James Wesley in memoriam award for most impactful moment from a right-hand man, aka our excuse, not that we need one folks to talk about Buck Cashman and or Daniel Blake. You have so many choices here. What are you going with? I have a small smuggle. I have two. Great. Okay. Number two. Yeah. Is when Fisk says,
Look outside the window. What do you see? And Daniel says Starbucks. This is my pick. And Buck says voters. And then Daniel really quickly says voters. That's my pick. I thought that was hysterical. Incredibly good. I would like to say, and I thought you were going to pick the moment where your guy Daniel sits behind Fisk's desk and like puts the screws to B.B. because I thought that was like a really good character moment for him. You know, and I really like the contrast between
you know, I like really regret to inform you. And I hate that this is true, that Sheila is just like a non-entity character for me. She's just here to tell us where he's supposed to go, what party he's supposed to be like. She's seems so functionary. But the contrast between the slick sort of like 007 Buck Cashman and then the more brutal rough edge Daniel Blake as like
the person Fisk wants to be and the person Fisk knows himself to be is working really well for me at this point in the season. And so I will say, and of seven,
When Buck Cashman 007s his way out of the shadows to put us all out of our misery on the Luca storyline. I thought that was extremely excellent. Hiding in the drapery. Yeah. Just out of the shadows. Here comes Buck Cashman. And then...
You know, Fisk is like, get Vanessa's to-go order. And Buck's like, sure, while he's dealing with the body at the same time. What can't Buck Cashman do is the question. It's true. That man knew his way around a silencer. That was clear. I thought it was great. And yeah, none of them are rising to the level of Wesley in my mind. But their powers combined...
And they're representing something very different. Yes. Which I really like. I think this was smart to like – and especially to play on our early kind of like expectation or tendency to say, oh, who will be the new – the Wesley or the Wesley light? To say, no, it's actually like there could never possibly be. It's like the two of them together have to approximate.
I mean, maybe that will cease to be true and one of them will kind of rise in time. But so far it's been the dynamic duo act has been effective. Yeah, the more I see them, like, together, the more I like it as, like, yeah, this duo. Yeah, and it's interesting, too, because, like, thinking, like, you know, we get some insights into, like, when Fisk was saying, you know, to Buck, like, remember why I brought you over here. Yeah, your specific set of skills. Yes, Buck. Yes.
Yes, my ability to think asymmetrically. That's just so different to what is drawing him much more organically to Daniel. Like you've said, you know, that thing that he recognizes about a younger version of himself or would like to rediscover somehow about who he is now. Also just this like, you know, both of them are providing this in a different way, but this especially in this moment where he's using words betrayal, et cetera, to talk about Vanessa. Yeah.
We hear him say many times, like, you know, he tells Vanessa as they're getting ready for the fundraiser, sitting on the bed, like, you're even more extraordinary than you were before. In the therapy scene, he says, like, that he told Adam, like, about our marriage. I told him I couldn't fathom a life of meaning without her. And he's like, his voice is quaking as he's overcome with emotion saying that. So even though he's describing the Adam affair as a betrayal, he is still –
fully committed to a life with Vanessa. But even so, there is this quality in the air of, like, who will just stand by my side, right? And so this idea of loyalty and what Buck and Daniel both represent about loyalty and about how Fisk can, like, amass or gain new followers and people who are willing to stand by his side has been kind of interesting to watch. Is your interpretation of the final moment of Seven that...
Vanessa set Luca up to get got by Buck Cash in the restaurant. That's my interpretation, too. Yes. Yeah. I think when she texted him and sent him there, it was, you know, and then the fact that Buck is standing at the ready, that they're in cahoots. I think that's been interesting, too, like the way that they talked about, you know, adding an extra million as a tax thing.
to Luca and they have worked their way back to just kind of openly Vanessa and Wilson discussing the business and engaging with the more nefarious aspects while Wilson trumpets wherever he can, like that, you know, the vigilante task force is going to be deployed because you have to heed the rule of law. And of course he's not doing that. Right. This moment has passed where he was like, I need to maintain complete and total distance. That's not really where he is anymore with it. That Vanessa,
spilling on Luca to set up the buck from the shadows of the window dressings kill while Wilson then continued to eat his meal. That all was, like, I thought, pretty good. The idea that Luca could be dumb enough to believe that after a 45-second conversation, Vanessa Fisk would decide to kill her husband was, like...
I'm just like, really? This guy? But I mean, I guess he's just a bag of hot air who is too big for his tracksuit breeches. I suppose if Luca had been privy to the therapy sessions, but he hasn't been and all he's seen is like the tensions. Uh,
It's true. Around town. Glad Luca's gone. Rest in pieces, my guy. You won't be missed. So yeah, my pick was also from episode seven, the Starbucks moment. Just thought that was fucking great. Genuinely funny. I really liked it. I guess my runner up, the whole mayor garbage sequence, specifically the comedy of Daniel's confession. Sheila's trying to say, you don't have to tell, right? And Daniel's like, I had a lot to drink.
Wilson's like, you should stop. Tequila and in the spirit of total honesty, there was some ketamine. That's incredible. It was very good. Really funny. But I liked how even though there was the threat at the end, like, you know, I'm going to, if you ever fuck up and you betray me again, that's it for you. That's a wrap. The way that Wilson looked down at him after Daniel's very sad, like eternally loyal, forever grateful plea and apology and, like,
And said, you know, in the fullness of time, you'll make a better man. It was I love that just the way he could. He was so clearly looking at a younger version of himself in that moment and trying to give him the counsel that that he didn't have. I thought that was great. So Daniel Blake and Buck Cashman, all stars wild. Our next category, Joanna, is not about the new heroes of our story.
but about the spirit and essence of something old and familiar. It is the most encouraging return to form. You have already told us that your pick for this is Frank and Matt. We've already talked about it. So why don't we just go directly to yours? What's yours? Okay. As I teased to you already, this is like a... I'm latching on to the promise. I feel this is a promise of more to come. We'll see. I love this for you. Episode six. Mm-hmm.
Matt's prayer. Matt holding Foggy's In Memoriam card in his hand. Closest look we've gotten at this card as well. We had talked about how Matt seemed to be putting it in his pocket, carrying it with him every day. The wear on Foggy's photo, the way that you could just tell that this has been something in his hand every minute since he lost Foggy, I thought was so beautiful. But just like to hear Matt pray. Yeah.
they come back to it. It's playing again at the end of the episode, but to see Matt sitting on the edge of his bed in prayer, holding Foggy's photo in his hand, thinking about him, the flashes to Foggy's death, to Karen's scream, to the rooftop with Bullseye. I'm not trying to yuck your gum. I love that you love this, and I agree with you because I wrote in my notes, like, finally a bit of religiosity. Yes, exactly. But next to it, I wrote flashbacks. Mal's going to hate this. But in this moment, it worked for you. No, that's not. I don't
I don't hate a flashback. I hate when inside of the same episode, they flash back to something from 10 minutes ago. It's like, I was watching this episode. I'm watching it right now. I remember. I know that that's the worst offender. I thought maybe like inside of the same season is, but like, yeah, you're right. You're right. No, no, no, no. I didn't. Yeah. Matt sort of like reflecting on all of the different like terrors and horrors. We saw Hector, Fisk at the diner, et cetera. But then the way he said amen and just kissed the card, I thought was like so funny.
sweet and moving and touching. And I'm just really still craving a return to an incorporation of Matt's faith. And just this little morsel that we got here. And then the conversation immediately after with Heather, because she's like, what are you doing? And the way he said, oh, you know, just checking in.
You pray still. Yeah. I've stopped a few times over the years, but always end up coming back to it. Like the fact that they actually acknowledge this like lapse in math, Matt's engagement with his faith. And the way that that entwined here with foggy and with his grief and his shame as like the thing that is maybe keeping him awake.
way, not allowing him to commune with his faith as fully. You know, I like the moments in the Daredevil canon where Matt's faith is not only this, like,
active presence and guide and source of comfort, but also when it can be a little bit of a source of torment for him, you know, and the moments, as we've discussed many times now, where his doubt is consuming him just as powerful, often more so than when his belief is guiding him. So I was just glad to get a little bit of it, and I'm hopeful that that's a signal that we will be on a bench in front of a church with someone before too long. Yeah.
I think that's a great thing to hope for. I would love that. It would please me so much to see Matt inside of a church, which is not something I, an atheist, thought I would ever say, but it's so key to his character. We're down to our final category of the day, Joanna. It is the most promising or worrying MCU incorporation. What are you going with here?
Worrying is obviously Skrull's dimension. Always a worry. Couldn't have been a Skrull. Always a worry. Yeah. I prefer we not think of... Did bum you out to not see Emilia Clarke's name on the back of a director's chair in the Avengers Zoom Day announcement? No. Okay, cool. All right.
I hate to tediously bang the same drum, but I just think that the use of Yusuf Khan was so good. Yeah. Inside episode five, Mohan Kapoor as... And then, like, the Kamala discussion, the little Funko Pop, a little check-in knowing that she's in California, you know, a little, like, Young Avengers champion sort of potential tease there. Yeah.
I think it was an email, either an email or someone tweeted at me, I can't remember, saying that it was so wild to them that we had seen Yusuf Khan in three different projects together.
since we last saw Shang-Chi. You know what I mean? Like, there's this, like, that use of Khan of all people. But, like, I think that's sort of the level, you know, it's similar to a deployment of Wong, you know what I mean? It's just, like, the level of light engagement that we can do. I just thought this was, like, a perfect little touch. We feel like we're in the same world. Um...
but it's not weighted down with a lot of, of, you know, continuity similar to, I mean, I don't know if you want to talk about Tony Dalton, but like, I thought Jack would be your pick. Yeah. I mean, we can talk about Jack Duquesne if we want to. And, and the swordsman footage that we get in the baby report and stuff like that. I thought that was really fun. I hope we see him again. I thought his interaction with Fisk was wonderful. Um,
It's a warning. But yeah, but Yusuf Khan and just like a little, you know, Kamala check-in was fun for me. That's my pick as well. You know, runner up for Jack and for Leroy's mention of Good at the Scroll. But yeah, no, my pick is episode five as well. The Yusuf here I thought was really, really wonderful. I thought that he and Matt were great together.
Great chemistry. I also thought, yeah, fantastic. I hope we get the dinner scene after the invitation. Yeah. That would be super fun. Can you imagine, like, don't you think Matt Murdock and Kamala Khan together would just be absolutely thrilling? Yeah, it would be incredible and I love it too because, like, we got, first of all, we got some regional humor, right? Like, I prefer it to Hoboken about Jersey City. Yeah, Jersey City. It's just genuinely funny. I laughed. I have, back in the day when I lived in New York, I had a lot of friends in both Jersey City and Hoboken and this made me chuckle. Um,
I really loved this because, you know, the on-the-mat, just in general, like, this idea of, like, community, right? And what your community means to you and what you mean to your community. Like, we've seen Ms. Marvel go to space. You've seen her go to space. So there's obviously an undeniable, like, cosmic reach and quality to that character in that part of the story now. However, like...
Jersey City is a part of the Ms. Marvel story. Jersey City's own. Yeah. Yeah. I am rooted in my community. Maybe Ms. Marvel we wouldn't fully describe as street level the way we would Daredevil, but the idea of them- Go back to Hell's Kitchen, Matt. Please. Please, Matt. The idea of them sitting around at a table-
talking about just the places that they live, like would be so rewarding and cool to see. I really, really hope that we get to see it. But I just, I love thinking about it in general. And then, yeah, on the California front, I like to think it's a trip with multiple purposes. You know, we're going to go visit Bruno at Caltech, I hope. I know Bruno hopes. And then also, yeah, we got some Cassie Lang recruiting to do, right? So that's an active itinerary for a little jaunt out West. But it was also just like so...
The way that he's just, Yusuf's so proud, right? Like, the way he beams when he talks about his daughter. I just really love all of that. And I gotta say. I want a Marvel Spotlight special now of Kate Bishop and Carly Khan on a road trip across the country to California. Dare to dream. Give it to me. Dare to dream. I hope that Lucky the Pizza Dog will be accompanying them.
Not you, Clint. No updates. It's been how many days since we've gotten an update on Lucky the Pizza Dog? Too many. I want to award Yusuf not only for his acts of bravery, but for delivering my single favorite line of the season so far. Standing in front of the vault, not knowing how to open it, stalling for time, as Matt said, but probably also making, I think, a sincere request.
Actually, could I please request if you could get me a snack, just a granola bar or maybe a banana? Very, very Mallory coded, except it would be like, can you give me some string cheese? And before everybody actually, can I get me a snack, just four string cheeses from the fridge and 10 high cheeses. 10 high cheeses, yeah.
This was just fantastic. On the candy front, I love when he holds up the butterscotch bowl and then just rattles it slightly so that Matt will know where it is and can reach out and grab one. It's really good. Incredible. Also, on that point, great reaction from Charlie Cox when he tasted the candy. He's like, mmm! Yeah. But, you know, how did Matt...
get down to the vault to help? How did Matt open the vault? How did Matt manage to return the diamond at the end? Yusuf knows that something's up with Matt Murdock, and that's fun to think about, too. So this was all just great, wonderful stuff. Didn't think that it would be possible if Jack returned to our lives for anyone to top him, and yet here we are. I think that I am, I think the reason that I'm, like, sort of defensive, worried about
people not liking five is because Disney was like worried about people not liking five, which is why they double dropped those episodes. Right. They were worried that people would see this standalone bank robbery episode and be like, this is a daredevil. It's not what I want. Right. And so they gave us six as well. But like, yeah, I just I I think this is great. And more of more of this. Yes. Yeah.
Agreed. More bananas, more granola bars, more candies, more Devlin, more. Please call Jen, get her on the show. Okay. Jen, I miss her. Okay. We did it. Anything else? Anything else that you want to highlight? I am like you, like, you know, I'm always, I always want the thing to be good. So I really hope that eight and nine sort of blow my socks off and, and turn me around on the show. Um,
And I will miss you next week when I am gone. But I'm really grateful to the folks who are filling in. And when you get back, it's last of us time, baby. And Daredevil finale time. We'll wrap it all up together. Yellow jackets finale. We have a busy week. Got a lot to do. Well, all the more reason to fuel up on bananas. The potassium will help us. Is that how potassium works? I don't know. Joanna.
Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for doing this, even though I'm not there to do it in person. It's wonderful to see your beautiful face, to sense your presence through these.
Through the Zoom screen. Thank you to our wonderful producers, Steve Allman, John Richter. Always the best. Did they figure out yet another new remote slash studio setup for us? I'm out of the void. Mere moments of notice, they did. They're the best. Legends always. Also, happy fucking birthday to Steve Allman. Happy birthday, Steve Allman. Happy birthday, Steve. Thank you as well.
And as always, to Arjuna Ramgopal for his production supervision and Jomia Deneron for his work on the socials. We will see you together in two weeks for the Daredevil finale. I will see you next week for a check-in on Daredevil episode eight, Yellowjackets episode nine, Black Mirror season seven. Could it have been a scroll? Goodbye.