'The Last of Us' Season 2 Episode 1 Deep Dive
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Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, the most marvelous morel, the most beautiful button mushroom. It's Mallory Rubin.

Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mal. Jo, I have whiskey. I have herbal tea, but the tea, it's mostly thistles and dirt. So I don't know how well it's going to pair with those offerings. Bourbon, please. Thank you so much. Love a bourbon. Love a bourbon. Mallory Rubin. Joanna Robinson. This is a podcast that we do, and this one is about The Last of Us. Season two, episode one. I'm thrilled. You can both listen to this podcast. Yes. You can also watch it. That's right. On YouTube, on Spotify. Indeed. What podcast?

Are the people who are watching this podcast enjoying the people who are merely listening to this podcast are missing? Oh, well, you know, in addition to just the joy of seeing us and our well-rested, definitely well-rested faces. I have decided to show up today wearing Joel's wax trucker. And, you know, I love a bit.

I love a piece of outerwear. And I intended to wear it for the full pod, I think, based on the temperature. While Joel, you know, is 25 years into the apocalypse and going strong with his wax trucker, I'm not sure I'm going to make it more than a handful of minutes before I collapse from heat stroke. But we'll see. We love a bit. We'll see how it goes. We love your efforts. Thank you for bringing your true passion, which is outerwear, to the podcast.

So we're going to talk about The Last of Us. That is what we're doing on this podcast. Wonderful. We're recording this a little bit in advance. Yes. We did have the privilege of going to the premiere. We did. And I will be leaving Los Angeles. So we thought for now. Which QZ are you going to? Oh. I will find you. They'll sound bad. I will travel anywhere to find you. Can I just be a Jackson instead? Everything seems fine there. Yeah. Lovely. Okay.

I'm leaving Los Angeles. We wanted to do this in person. Our tendrils yearning for each other. Always. Don't. Don't actually. And so don't out your nose. Please don't. Yeah. Well, just like a stalker. OK, so spoilers, obviously, for season two, episode one of The Last of Us. Yes. So we're recording this a little in advance. Yes. But here's what's going on elsewhere in the feed. Busy.

A lot. Popping. Yellow jackets. Yeah. Daredevil. That's us. Finales. Finales. That's what we're doing, right? Yes. The Midnight Boys. Pew, pew. Midnight Munchies. Apocalypse Food. I mean, a little bit on the Make Your Mushrooms Your Bitch beat, but I support. I'll tell you this much. Here on the Spotify campus, when I walked into a

This is Pod City that we're in. When I walked in today, I walked past Charles Holmes with like a stock pot. Yes. And that filled my heart with joy. Yes. So I support this. There's a lot happening. I support Charles getting excited about cooking. The Men at Boys are also doing a reaction to Sinners, which I'm really excited about because I love...

I'm so excited for that movie. And also, Button Mash is covering The Last of Us. Daniel Chin, Ben Lindbergh, gamers are coming in with a video game angle for The Last of Us. Very exciting. It's a ringer-wide event, Last of Us coverage. We're going to have stuff on the site every week. We'll have the Midnight Boys instant reaction. We'll obviously be here at the top of the week as early as we can be with our deep dives. Button Mash, as you said, is coming.

You're going to have some other stuff cooking? Yeah, Rob Mahoney and I are going to be checking in. In that mushroom pot? Rob and I are going to be checking in later in the week on the Prestige Feed. It's a full court press. Chris and Andy will be discussing The Last of Us. Munching on mushies. Oof. So this is it. This is what we're doing. Thrilled. How do folks keep track of the millions of places they can hear various people talk about The Last of Us, among other things? Going to keep it as simple as possible. Follow the podcast that you're interested in hearing. Okay.

Follow the pod on Spotify. Yes. I thought you were interested in hearing, sure. Follow on Spotify and follow the corresponding YouTube channel. Subscribe to that as well. Again, you can get full video episodes of House of R, of Midnight Boys, of Prestige TV. What a time. You can also follow along on social media. The Ringiverse is on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.

Is this the moment where I finally join Blue Sky? I think it might be. The combination of Last of Us and really needing to get off some of my Oriole takes that back in the day I would have put on Twitter and now I just text them to my dad, which is great. That's the best, but might be time. So do that. Follow along with us. And of course, any thought that might not fit into the comment of an Instagram post or a tweet, send us via email.

Email us anyway. Hobbits and Dragons. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. The inbox is always open, and we would love to hear from you. We already got our first mushroom recipe of the season. Someone brilliantly emailed it in advance of the premiere. Smart. So we'll be talking about that a little bit later on. But if you weren't with us with season one, we were over on a different feed for that one. But if you weren't with us, I was cooking a lot of mushroom recipes sort of in my attempt to control my mushroom fear. Yeah.

Make mushrooms your bitch 2025. Here we come. So yeah, send your mushroom recipes. I may or may not share them with Charles and his stockpot, but I will definitely share them with you, Mallory. I cooked not a thing during season one, nor during any other recent season of television, but I did order a lot of mushroom dishes on.

various food delivery services. And that's because you and I approach things differently, and this is how we're approaching the game this season. So we already mentioned this on a previous House of R episode, but we're doing the game part of this adaptation a little bit differently this time. Last time in season one in our coverage, Mallory was physically playing the game along with pacing with the episodes of the show, and I was watching a couple different, but we

mainly one sort of cinematic playthrough on YouTube. So we could talk about the differences between the game and the show. We were thinking of doing this for season two. We were told by people who made the show that would be foolish of you. We're not doing a sort of linear adaptation of Last of Us Part II into season two. So you better just

Take it all in. So Mallory and I have not gotten all the way through. We're doing this a little early, but by the time we reconvene, I think we'll be done. And we made a significant dent. So we will have a spoiler section at the end of the pod. We'll be talking about how events inside of this episode or choices that were made may impact how the show goes forward. So we'll have a little spoiler.

game knowledge only spoiler section similar to our book reader section at the end of the House of Dragon episodes. We'll have some blaring sirens before that so you cannot miss. You will not miss it. That that part of the pod is about to begin. We hope that you stay. Yeah.

But if you don't want to hear that stuff, it will be... Sayonara, sweetheart. It will be a mushroom, the hood of a mushroom at the end. The rest is safe for you to consume freely. I don't like it. Just one yearning tendril at the end. I wanted to let you all know, I usually get this question of which...

Am I watching on YouTube? Yeah. So just in case people want to check one out. I'm watching one that's like 15 and a half hours long. Oh, my God. That's fast. Yeah. I think they cut all the times that you're like searching for a weapon, you know, trying to decide a weapon to use and all that sort of stuff. I love a search. Adam makes fun of me. I will not miss picking up a single solitary resource. Not a one. So this... I get mauled a lot, Joe. I need to be able to craft as many health kits as possible. Yeah.

I know that you're a top-tier gamer when it comes to this particular adventure. The one that I'm watching is called Last of Us 2 Full Gameplay Walkthrough by Gamers Little Playground. It's got 4.3 million views, so safe to say just a few people have seen it. And it's been really wonderful so far. So I've been really enjoying that. I love it. As I mentioned, we're talking about Season 2, Episode 1, Future Days, directed by...

Series co-creator Craig Mazin. Written by series co-creator Craig Mazin. Fantastic. Mazin directed season one, episode one. He's not sort of by trade a director, but he crushed it with the season one premiere. So he's back again for the season two premiere. And the title is based on a Pearl Jam song that means a lot to the Last of Us fandom. It has a role to play in the game. We're not sure if they're going to use it in this TV show because...

Time-wise, timeline-wise, the timeline in the show is different than the timeline in the game. This song came out in 2013, and then in the show they moved the dawn of the Cordyceps apocalypse from 13 to 03. Do you think Eddie Vedder was still composing post-Cordyceps apocalypse? You know, I think I would love for the show to just say, fuck it, let's pretend in the universe of the show the song came out earlier and still use it. It's so meaningful and beautiful. Yeah.

When it was in the first teaser trailer, I lost a little bit of hope. But that made me think, oh, maybe we're getting it there. And now the name of the episode, Future Days, we're getting it in certain ways because maybe we're not going to get it. And there will be another song subbed in instead. They're going to pick something else. And I don't know. Maybe it's a misdirect. But like, I'm excited to know whatever that song might be. Same. But yeah, this song was so important and is so resonant to the story that they want to tell that Neil Druckmann said,

co-creator of the game, co-creator of this TV series. Basically like had to hound Eddie Vedder and his people in order to get the rights to this. If you're curious why it was this song or no other song as far as Dracuyn was concerned, I'll just read, though not sing, a few lyrics just so folks know why it had to be Future Days.

If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself. That's what I say every night when I text you goodnight. Yeah, I know. I have a log. Yeah.

Then I send you a thumbs down emoji. All the promises that said sundown, I meant them like the rest. Everything I've found here, I've not found by myself. Try and sometimes you'll succeed to make this man of me. All my stolen missing parts, I've no need for anymore. I believe and I believe because I can see our future days, days of you and me. Ah, chills. Days of us, the last of us. Beautiful. Okay.

Some background on the game without spoiling anything for folks. Anything you want to mention about sort of what you knew about The Last of Us Part II before, you know, going into playing it yourself or thinking about the season? I was trying to avoid...

I know. Anything. And in fact, I'd like to thank some of our colleagues, Steve, our wonderful colleague, Riley McAtee. When season one finished, and I'd been playing it through in corresponding fashion with the episodes, as you noted, I was like,

The day after the finale, I heard from those guys and a couple other people who said, play the game as soon as you possibly can. If you want to avoid being spoiled, do it immediately. Here we are on the eve of a new season and I am embarking on my journey now. Let me say.

I'm having an incredible time. I mean, it is breathtaking. I thought the first game was astonishing, and this is really extraordinary and impactful so far. So I was trying to really, really, really, really trying, and I honestly succeeded in avoiding particulars in a way I'm thrilled by and shocked by, given that we live life on the internet. I was just so cautious. But I had a sense of its...

of the level of discourse around the game when it released, which was mere years ago, right? This is a 2020 game release. So this was

just in the last handful of years, which obviously is a different time frame than when the first game came out. And so I had some sense of the controversy and narrative around the game, and then also had a sense from not just the wider gaming public, but some people in our lives who we know and trust that it is like,

something they absolutely cherish and revere and considered a masterpiece and considered much like the first one of the greatest games ever made. So I felt like I had a feel for its role in the culture and hold on the culture without having...

been subsumed by the spores of spoilers in a way that I'm really grateful for. So I don't know how. I don't know how I managed it, but I'm thrilled that I did. I'm honestly impressed. I'm really, really impressed. The Last of Us Part II, inspired by The Godfather Part II. What a lofty goal for Neil Druckmann. And Part I, did you know that Part I was inspired by, we must have talked about this, inspired by David Benioff's City of Thieves, a book we both really love. I want to say that you told maybe me and Rob this. Does that sound right?

Sure. Let me say this. If I learned it, I learned it from you. Okay. For sure. For The Last of Us Season 2, Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann have brought on Druckmann's The Last of Us Part 2 co-writer, Crowe writer, Hallie Gross, and he shouted her out at the premiere that we went to. Yeah.

She, I know her work best from Westworld. She wrote two great season one episodes, The Adversary and Trompe l'oeil. And when Druckmann hired her out of Westworld, basically she had done Westworld, hired her to work on this game. He hired her, among other things, to bring a female perspective in crafting stories for characters like Ellie, Dina, who we meet in this episode, Abby, who we meet in this episode, that sort of stuff. Yes.

Um, among many other things. And I would really recommend in terms of researching about, because yeah, we were not playing the game when it came out. I was aware of the controversies, trying to learn more about that, about sort of what all went down. Um,

I read this incredible British GQ piece that's a really good piece of journalism because the journalist was like embedded with Naughty Dog, the creators of the game, for I think years, just like checking back in like at various stages about how it was all going. If not years, at least a year, like a long time. And so...

I really, really enjoyed this piece. I really, really recommend it. You can find it on British GQ. It's sort of like the making of The Last of Us Part II. The game was finished and debuted during COVID and like smack dab in the middle of like the Black Lives Matter sort of second wave protests and stuff like that. And so just a really hot bed for people at home, people feeling a lot of things, people feeling a lot of ways about a lot of things. And so it landed. And then...

In the least ideal way you want something that you've worked years on, created an hour of the game, leaked online in April 2020. And so a lot of it was just sort of like taken out of context. Assumptions were made and things got really nasty online. Yes. We got a couple emails because we alluded to this in an earlier House of R episodes sort of leading up to this. We got a couple emails from people saying like,

Yes, there was sort of heated debate or some like nasty reactions to the game. But the emails that we got were like, this is a very vocal minority. Yeah, it was a small group of like sort of loud, nasty people or loud, nasty opinions, let's say. And that broadly, this is an extremely popular game, an extremely well-regarded game. And people are really excited for this season. So, yeah.

Anything else you want to talk about before we get into the episode breakdown? I just, I think just not to be too like cheesy and saccharine from the jump, but just how excited I am to be back and to be covering this with you again. Like I was thinking about it

watching the premiere and rewatching season one in anticipation of the premiere and starting to play the game again. Like, I think this is my favorite show right now. I think it's my favorite show. Like your favorite show that's currently making new episodes of television. My favorite show that is like active and currently airing. And I think it's, it's the best. It's, it's in the running, like for the belt. And, you know, some of the other shows that,

I feel are in the running either for me personally or just more broadly, like critical consensus, consumer consensus, whatever the case may be, like, you know, The Bear and White Lotus, like, are just, I just have a different, I love those shows, but I have just a really different perspective.

depth of connection to them and relationship to them than I do with this world and this story and these characters. And, you know, like something like Severance I adore. So that's probably like up there. And I'm like, oh, wait, which is it? But yeah, I was just like, is this my favorite show right now? When I had the opportunity to fall back into the world. And that was a really fun and

cool thing to confront because I just adored season one. Yeah. And it was the rush and euphoria of discovering something for the first time. Like when something first gets its yearning tendrils in you because I hadn't previously played the game. It was all new to me. And to really immerse myself in it and to do that with you was just really magical. And like to be back and doing it again, I'm just thrilled. So I, as you know, I have the tendency like, um,

Roman really just said it. I actually do it, you know, pre-grieve. I'm already thinking like, fuck, it's only seven episodes. What will I do when it's over? We have to wait how long until season three to continue to adapt the game. But I'm really just going to try to soak up every moment. And I hope that this is like a really special second season. And I'm just honestly thrilled to be back. I just love the show. I know. I love the show. I love talking about it with you specifically. It's so...

So fun. And I think for me, I mean, it's fun and also like devastating and gut wrenching and all that sort of stuff. And I love to be sad. But like I would say what's in the running for my favorite shows currently? Survivor. New episodes. It's like Last of Us and or which we are lucky enough to get new and or very soon. We get to cover these two shows at the same time.

I'm worried about being in like an active depressive state when they both end. It's just so much of a good thing all at once. And my personal like jewel of the crown interview with a vampire. Lamb man?

You know, there's always traitors to consider. Did you hear me say lamb ham? Did the audio cut out for a second? No. No, you mean by that. Okay. How's your jacket? Weird how even though we're not remote today, we had an audio glitch. It was just like a quick connection for just a second there. That's bizarre. And you alluded to this, but this is, so this is Lasso season two. Yes. The Lasso's part two, the game, is basically twice as long as the first game.

And so they are only adopting part of the second name. And the idea is that in the third season, they will finish the adaptation, I believe, is the plan. Anything else you want to say before we get to the episode breakdown? I'm just going to take the jacket off. Yeah, that's what I thought.

So we're going to start the episode breakdown with a section I'm calling previously on The Last of Us. Yes. Because they start the season with the final scene from season one. We opened the close with the last scene of season one. And Joel's big lie. That was for you. Thank you. And Joel's big lie to Ellie. You're going to make me cry right at the top. About how it all went down with the fireflies. He swears.

And lies. Yes. And she only mostly believes him is my interpretation of her facial expression. Talks herself into believing him is where I think we are on it. This just sounds dumb to say, like, what a purposeful place to start. But what a purposeful place to start, right? To, like...

Most of the episode is going to be spent in the future, five years in the future. So to open, and we'll get to the next part of this opening also in the past, to open in the past and to root us back in the heft and consequence of that moment, the way that that decision, that lie that Joel told and the decision that he made that led to the lie continues to define not just

their relationship, but literally the state of the world, right? That was the choice that Joel made. Save Ellie, doom the world. And so to...

I you know this was like thinking back to our finale consumption and covering it and that like really riveting debate of like well what choice easiest choice he ever I loved the way that that Neil Druckmann after the episode was like easiest choice he ever had to make right and so the people who condemn it the people who support it but are complicit in it when we're playing or watching it's just incredible yeah and to be ported back to that headspace and that

dissonance and conflict inside. Incredible. And like, what do we know? We know for Joel, easiest choice. For Ellie, it's not what she would have wanted, right? Like, after all we've been through, everything I've done, it can't be for nothing. That was what she said to him in the season one finale.

And then he did that anyway. And it's just so important for us to, like, immerse in that feeling again as we start this new phase. It's not just, like... It's not just, like, all we've been through. It can't be for nothing. It's... Inside of that, it's not just the journey of season one, but it's also, like...

her living and Riley, her girlfriend, not living. Yes. That survivor's guilt. Absolutely. That stays with her. Right. There has to have been a reason, a productive reason for it. And I have a purpose. And I have a purpose. And now what? And it means something. Hey!

In re-watching season one as I did and then I re-rewatched season one, episode one, the parallels between that episode and this episode are either me... Did you do it, you went back to it yet again because you love a raisin cookie so much? Is that... It's because... You love a raisin cookie. I love a murderous grandmother.

You love an ocean vista, you have horror crevice, you love a raisin cookie. So I was re-watching season one, episode one. We're just at the beginning of the episode, Mallory. We've got a lot to get to. I was just re-watching season one, episode one. Yes. For like the third time in the last however many days. And sort of comparing the structure of this episode with the structure of that episode. And there are either me overreaching and finding a lot of parallels or actually a lot of parallels. But I was reminded in re-watching that episode that

this sort of swear to me, swear to me, sort of Batman-esque. That's my Christian Bale is Batman, swear to me. Incredible. You're welcome. I love it. I'm really accustomed right now to your Fisk, Vanessa. Yeah, swear to me. It's all of a piece. It is. It's all of a gravelly piece. So, you know, Ellie's like, swear, right? That's something that Sarah said to him. Sarah would say to him, his daughter, who he lost in season one, episode one. So,

The Last of Us Firefly Edition. So something we were tracking at the end of season one was all, one of our listeners wrote in with this really astute observation, which is that in nearly, in every episode of season one, there was a The Last of Us moment as in this is the last of us, the two of us, whether it's

The last of Tess and Joel or the last of Bill and Frank or the last of, you know, XYZ. Henry and Sam. Yeah. Exactly. And so the last of the Fireflies, right? We are here. We see the giraffes. Dude. Which was this moment of wonder and delight for Joel and Ellie at the end of season one, but anchors us in a very specific scene.

time and place. We know exactly where we are. We see those giraffes. Yeah. And we see a group of young people that we've never met before. Yes. But the context clues immediately let us know these are the survivors of the Firefly Massacre that Joel was responsible for. Yes. They're burying their dead. They tried to save people. They saved no one. Yes. I thought this was so smart as instant time, place, just a shorthand. We know where we are.

again, reported back to like what happened, you know, pausing, trying to count the number of crosses to see the death. And, you know, we talk a lot when we're covering like a Lord of the Rings story, fresh tilled earth, this like beautiful positive thing to think of that fresh dirt full of the dead that they just had to bury and say goodbye to. Yeah. In that place that was just the idea of like, again, how how brief death.

and tenuous that spark of joy can be when you discover it again. And this universe was really, like, stark. And the fact that, like, season one, episode one is called Look for the Light, like, that is look for the fireflies. We're the beacon and snuffed out by Joel. We meet Abby. Yes. Played by the great Caitlin Deaver. We are among the...

Co-presidents of the Dever fan club. Just one of our absolute faves. Absolute hardcore faves. Such a thrill. Abby and her friends Owen, Manny, Mel, and Nora. And we will see them again at the close of the episode, right? Yeah. And this is such an immediate, and this is a line we talked about a lot when we covered season one. Yeah. From a different show entirely, Station Eleven. Yes.

To the monsters, we're the monsters. This is such a to the monsters, we're the monsters moment. We got it when we were dealing with Henry and Sam. Like that whole interlude in season one, kids die all the time, right? With Melanie Linsky, et cetera, et cetera, was we were introduced to a story where there's compelling loss and compelling desire on both sides. Right.

And who is the actual villain of this piece? It's hard to know inside of that story. Yes. With Joel and Ellie, to your point, the video game makes you complicit in this moment of Joel rescuing Ellie. There's nothing, there's no other option for you. Yeah. You rescue her. That's the end of the game. Yeah. It's a decision, an active decision you have to make. But you're the villain of them all. You have rampaged through and...

An effort to save the world and snuffed it out against the wishes of Ellie and against the wishes and hopes and dreams of any of the Fireflies. And even if you were coming to it from a, of course, I would do this for someone in my own life perspective and believe that to be true in your bones, the thing that you just said is undeniable and can't be taken out of the equation. So the last of us, the last of the Fireflies, right? This is it. And...

These people are no longer, this place was the Fireflies. So they're not even Fireflies anymore. You know what I mean? It's just like we're burying that in the ground. Shame. Good logo. Great merch. I love merch, as you know. I know.

On the Caitlyn Dever front. Yeah. A couple things to say. We are co-presidents of the Dever fan club. Yes. Long, long time fans. Way back to when she showed up as Loretta McCready. Icon. Justified season two. Icon. One of the greatest TV characters of all time. Indisputably. And Caitlyn Dever has just been crushing it across the board. Love Booksmart. Same. Love any, you know, Apple Cider Vinegar, which she just did on Netflix. Amazing. I...

When I hosted the South by panel for The Last of Us, I saw her there and I just had an immediate regret because I was like, tell me about your accent work on Apple Cider Vinegar. She has this incredible Australian accent. And I was like, that's not really what you should have talked to Caitlin Deaver about. But you're always on wig watch and you're always on accent corner. She can only be you. It was it was very important to me to talk to her about that.

Something that Craig Mazin said on that panel that they did at South By was that Caitlin Deaver was originally someone they thought of for Ellie when she was a bit younger. Yeah, you can totally see it. You can totally see it. If you've never seen Justified, Loretta McCready and Ellie, like, hand in hand, right? So this idea that they cast Caitlin Deaver, and we talked about this a little bit on our trailer breakdown, but Abby, if you've seen visuals from the game, Abby is...

impressively jacked woman. Someone who is so new on my weightlifting journey, I'm just like, goals. Incredible, incredible. Kaylin Dever does not look like that. And that's okay. Totally. And I think it's really interesting that they cast someone who has this... I wouldn't confuse her for Bella Ramsey in the street, but they're of a similar piece. And so this idea that we meet Abby here, someone who

We immediately know, and this is a diversion from the game, we know what she's after. She's after Joel. Yeah. And we know why she's after him. She wants to kill him slowly for vengeance. And that's not something we're privy to right away in the game. Right. And so we get this moment here, but that puts her as like a direct opposition to

Yeah. Yeah. I love that observation. I thought it like to the moment where we see Owen come in and take Abby's hands and we're lingering like just on the wristwatch. And then you think of a tie like that between Joel, you know, the role we're going to talk more later about, like the role of time in this universe.

could we do the entire podcast just on Catherine O'Hara? Instant icon as Gail. We could. We could. Clearly. We wanted to. But yeah, like looking for those parallels is really rewarding, I think. They very crucially sort of cut off this conversation about whether or not

Ellie could be a cure, right? Yeah, I thought I was fascinated by this because obviously, like, you know, we get a well, is it is it Joel or Joe, you know, 50s graying beard, six foot tall scar on his right temple. Oh, yeah, they say he's handsome. I forgot. Weird that Abby had access to my ideal match on a dating profile. Exactly what I look for. Mallory says he's handsome. Yeah.

50s, grinning beard, six foot tall. Got it. But I thought that that like, okay, so we know that despite them not knowing as a Joel or Joe, like they know what Joel did. They know what he's responsible for. Okay. Even though it's just a rumor and a whisper in the air and it is kind of quickly here like tamped down, the fact that there are even those whispers of Ellie's immunity among people who survived what happened at St. Mary's is overwhelming.

fascinating. Like, how many people still know, like, even a whisper of that prospect surviving Joel's slaughter feels like it could, I have genuinely have no idea, but it feels like it could come into play. Absolutely. I mean, the reason Joel wipes everyone out is so that the word won't get out. Cordyceps grows in the brain. If you're going to use Ellie to make a cure, you have to kill her. That is not acceptable to Joel. So anyone knowing,

that she could be a cure? Didn't finish the job. Problem. Sloppy half measures. Okay. You should have killed these five teens as well. Yeah, you really should have killed these children. That's my firm stance. What would the Punisher say? Okay. What do you make of introducing Abby here in this way, which is, again, different from the game. Yeah. In a sort of relatively, I will say, because if Cailin Deaver, who we love...

growls slowly will kill him slowly about Joel a character we love yeah I'm not saying it's like sunshines and lollipops but it is a slightly more sympathetic introduction I think or informed introduction than we get of Abby in the game what do you make like how does that work for you

I was deeply compelled by this. Watching Abby lean forward. I mean, everything that we're hearing, you know, you mentioned that, like, but we didn't save anyone, did we? And there's that rage, but also that sorrow that's driving that, like, quiver in the voice. But when we see Abby lean down by one of those crosses and put one of the Firefly pendants, like a Firefly version of a dog tag, basically, the tears in the eyes, there is...

a connection there to those people in the ground that is feels like something that is important for us to understand as we embark on the journey ahead right everybody who's standing there is mourning and the way that Abby is mourning is even though this is a character we have spent at this point in the in the in the story like

four minutes with three minutes with like through this first episode right we see a foot crunch on snow and a glance at the end but it's really just this scene we don't have a lot of time but we understand a lot about the depth of the despair that is driving her i think this was smart i think also um i mean thanks in a lot of ways to caitlyn deaver's performance but also in addition to everything brilliant that you just said i love talking to you about the show um

I think the us-ness of this group. Yes. Right? We'll help you. Yes. We'll kill him. Let's go to Seattle. Right. You know, we're not going to do exactly what you want to do, which is go right away. First, we're going to go to Seattle.

Drink some coffee and listen to some Pearl Jam. Wonderful. And then we will, you know, help you. But we are with you. We are an us. Yes. Absolutely. The loyalty and commitment among that group of people, not only the shared history, but the way that shared loss drives and informs shared history and then shared pursuits in the future. What makes an us, what pushes forward this idea of tribalism is so key.

key to this game. Yeah. Five years later. Real Avengers Endgame move here. This was interesting, too, just like in a little way. I wonder why five instead of four in the game. It's four. I don't know why the one year change, but I assume there's a reason. I think maybe just to line because then we have Ellie is 19. Yeah, I guess. OK. A day in the life.

Yeah. Is what we have here. Both in this episode and the first half of season one, episode one, show us a day in the life of our characters, right? We meet Joel at the beginning of season one, episode one. It's Sarah's birthday. We're with Sarah, really, but it's Sarah's birthday. Shells and the eggs. Shells and the eggs. Yeah. No pancake mix. Thank God. Thank God. Thank God. We're with Sarah on her last day. Yeah. Right. Right.

So it's very show us what we're about to lose. Yes. And it's very Bilbo's birthday party. Let's spend some time in the Shire before everything goes to shit. This was so on my mind throughout the entire episode, but like particularly at the end, you know, the New Year celebration. We talked about this a lot in the first season, the sixth episode when we go to Jackson and, you know, Joel and Ellie have that moment like this place actually fucking works, right? Like just the idea of a functioning society. But to your point,

it has to be more than that it can't just be utility it has to be like the thing that allows you as a person a character in the world to become rooted in a place like rooted in a world in a universe are you saying survival is insufficient survival is insufficient and like i love because especially because how many times we should set an over under there should be a thing we do and then the thing we track over under for station 11 mentions this season

The limit does not exist? I make no promises. Vegas took it off the board. Never mind. Never mind. But especially in this universe where, you know, when we think back to episode five and season one, Sam and Ellie bonding over their love of Savage Starlight. This is a story, whether it's the title of an episode or the line in the comics that the characters love, like survive and endure. So to see that that's not enough. Survive and celebrate.

Yes. Yes. Survive and share. Survive and build. The question we get three times for Ellie inside of this episode is, are you going to the thing tonight? Right? And she's happy to say, like, yeah to everyone but Joel. She's like, I don't know. Maybe. But, like, you should go. We should go. We should celebrate things. You know? Ugh.

There was some chatter, I remember, around season one, episode one, that it was almost too faithful to the opening of the first game, which is not how I felt because I was not, like, someone who had played the game a lot or whatever. But it was something that some people were noting. They're like, is this going to be just a beat-for-beat recreation of the game? And then people got to episode three and they were like, I'd like to retract my inquiry. Absolutely, never mind. But I think it's really interesting in this episode, you know, without getting into spoiler territory, but, like, this episode loosely takes place kind of the day before season one.

We hear about the dance, the Deena kiss, the fight with Seth. We hear about it as the gameplay starts. We hear about it. Yeah. But we don't see it. So this is... So they've taken us just like sort of one step back in time. There's some stuff that's the same. The market. We'll get to that and stuff like that. But like...

That's interesting to me that they're like, it's scary, but they're like, we're really not doing a direct adaptation this season. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so curious to see in general, like just season one had so many deeply faithful moments and then so many really sweeping changes. We talked about this a lot in season one. We're not in the habit here of touting non-ringer podcasts. Typically, listen to our

podcast, goddammit! But we talked so much throughout season one, every episode, about the official pod that Troy Baker and Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann were doing together because it was, I mean, they were just so insightful talking about their own project. And that element in particular of, like, the nature of adaptation and how they'd

would collaborate over and decide like, yeah, what is the right moment to make a change? I thought was like consistently riveting to listen to them discuss. And we should say we'll be doing it. We'll be incorporating their comments again more throughout the season because we're banking this early. That's not as present today, obviously, because it can't be. But that'll that'll be back. Absolutely. That will be back. I love that. I love that pod. But like, I think also this is something Rob Mahoney and I were sort of just idly talking about this idea of like, it's not a do over because I know that

Druckmann is incredibly proud of The Last of Us Part II, as he should be. It's an incredible game. But given the heated nature around the conversation, that has to be so much more top of mind when figuring out how to...

adjust and recraft the story for this particular adaptation versus adapting the first version, the first game. You know, it's like this is a game that some people kicked on the way that the storytelling, you know, so we're not going to change fundamentally the story we're telling, but we're going to change slightly the way we're rolling it out. Right.

And I don't think that's like an apology or an admission that they got it wrong, but it's just sort of like a, hey, let's take another bite of the apple and let's see about doing it this way. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Anything you want to say about this opening sparring situation other than Ellie using the classic iconic Saeed choke you with my thighs maneuver, which is one of our favorites? Dude, what a time for us and the Saeed choke you with my thigh maneuver making its way back into our lives via television. We recently got to enjoy watching Matt Murdock do this

In a stairwell of all places. On Daredevil porn again. We're living. We're living.

I just, I thought this was like a great way to bring us into the modern, the contemporary timeline back into Jackson, you know, when Ellie and Joel departed in episode six to head down to Colorado. And, you know, Tommy was like, there's a place for you here, both of you, to see right away that that's true, right? Things are not perfect. There's a lot of tension. There's a lot of stuff to talk about there. But like,

five years later they're here like they made a life Ellie's on patrol Joel's like basically a town elder he's not on the council but he is like the classes I can't wait I can't wait to talk about all of that um

what we get to see Ellie's tattoo and this like you know scrabbling for for purchase down in the straw in terms of just the respective sizes of the two participants there's obviously like the the brief you know I wouldn't say they were actually trying to go for a fake out of like oh my god is Ellie into terror because it's so but like oh my god is something a foot and then you realize pretty quickly it's training but this is like uh

versus like the mountain kind of like... This guy's big. Yeah, this guy's huge. And so it was just really like, fuck yeah, there goes my favorite badass watching Ellie force this guy to tap out and yield. That was really fun. And like the looks of Ellie with the blood coming out of her... She looks almost furious

Farrell. Well, Jesse having to repeat himself. It's like, okay means okay. That was all really great. And, you know, in terms of just quickly glimpsing the tattoo, we're going to talk more about that. The symbolism, like, we'll get to that elsewhere in the season. But, like, just again, these quick, these quick

things at the top of the episode, time has passed. Right away. Right? Yeah, we see five years later, but like Ellie looks different and like it roots us in such an effective way. And also just obviously this is like an iconic thing from the game. So to see it rendered on TV, very cool and very fun. The tattoo. The tattoo, not the leg choke. So in this sequence where we're checking in with Ellie and we meet Jesse. Yeah.

Yes. And then the next scene we're checking with Joel and we meet Dina and, and Jesse and Dina are like the two main new characters on the show. And so from a storytelling point of view, um,

This is such elegant storytelling of like, we meet Jesse, we learn of his authority. We learn of his relationship with Ellie. We learned that, you know, sort of everyone around her is acting in going soft on her in deference to Joel. Yes. So learning about Jesse's relationship to Joel, to her, to,

But not saying, hi, I'm Jessie. I am, you know, one of the young and up-and-coming leaders of this town and blah, blah, blah. Or, hi, I'm Dina. I'm Ellie's best friend, et cetera, et cetera. They're just sort of, we already know each other. We're there. We're in the floor. We're in it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And there's multiple conversations. There's Jessie and Ellie. There's Dina and Joel. And then there's Ellie and Tommy where they're talking...

Ellie and Joel are talking about each other. And quite often, not in every case, you know, they're name dropping a little bit, but, you know, it's like, oh, he said this. Oh, she's why she mad at you. Right. Oh, he said this. And it's just like, I love that because we are not underestimating our audience. Like we can keep up if you just use pronouns. It's how normal people would talk. And then it's also like if you're if things are tense, you're

Maybe you don't say the name. Maybe you just say, he would want this. He wouldn't want that. You and he are so similar. Like, all this sort of stuff. This is a really, really great observation. I like it, too, because, like, it's unmistakable to everyone else who the he or she could be for each of them. There's no one else it could possibly be. It's us. It's us. It's Ellie and Joel, and, like, the state they're in is something we won't parse, but, like, who else could they possibly mean? I love that. And to your point about...

The response Ellie has to Jesse, like, well, you know, he had pulled the punch. I don't want... You know, that...

Her annoyance that Jesse cares what Joel would think. Her annoyance over Tommy's, like, you're going off patrol into gate watch moment. How she reacts, obviously, later to, like, Joel pushing Seth at the dance. All of the responses to the way that people cower to Joel specifically. And call her. Yes, and this element of, like,

do what I say, control violence. The thing that drew them together at the start is a wedge now. And that's just like, talk about feeling the passage of time. That's fascinating.

We see that Jackson's covered in a blanket of snow, right? Bustling, thriving. It looks beautiful. Absolutely pristine. Beautiful. I'm sure everything will be fine. And we get the root choked pipes right away. I missed this the first time I saw the episode. The second time, obviously, seeing the yearning tendrils come out of the pipe at the end. I mean, Dina mentions it in the next scene, but just sort of like, so it gets this early drop and then later we're like, there's fucking tendrils in that pipe. Not good. Not good. And we know, Joanna. Yeah.

You touch a tendril in one place. I'm like, where's... The comms, they go wide. It's worrying. Where's, like, fire? You know what I mean? Like, okay, anyway. Deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply worrying. I clutched you when we saw the burning tendrils emerge through the pipe route. I did like hearing Dina just like, oh, oh, oh, well, that's fucked. Yeah. It's like our first introduction. There's like, ah, like something like this would crack. That's fucked. That's fucked. Great stuff. Here's Joel.

And they say he's handsome. And they're right. Let me tell you something. The fact that Pedro Pascal is playing 61-year-old. And he just turned 50. Happy birthday, King. He just, like, Joel has aged. Fine wine. Wonderfully. Yeah. A Bordeaux. The hair looks great. An orange wine, maybe. You don't age orange wine, do you? I love it. But I love an orange wine, as you know. I'm an enthusiast.

His hands are still shaking. This is a season one thing, right? There's the hairline fracture in his hand. But we talked about this a lot in season one because shaking hands, of course, a sign of infection. So for Joel, it's wear and tear, it's age, but also something that on the official pod, Mazin and Druckmann like to talk about is the way in which Joel is infected to a certain degree with like grief,

The violent, like sort of the berserker rages that he goes on. They're like, that's very... Because he got that break from punching a dearly departed lead soldier. Dearly departed. Dearly departed. As Ellie watched. Dumping the pills right into the pocket of his uniform. I need the baggy bag. Okay. So the violence and then also the love. That this love is like an infection rooted deep in his heart. So I love... Okay. Okay.

Next time my hand shakes, I'm going with that and not just you shouldn't have 17 cups of coffee in one day. There's a lot to love in terms of the casting of the season. Caitlin Deaver, as we've already mentioned, we're lifelong fans. Catherine O'Hara, Canadian legend. An icon. Genuine icon. You and I are huge beef fans. We love Young Mazzino, like blah, blah. Sensational. I think Izzy Merced, Isabelle Merced.

steals this episode. I think her Dina is so immediately captivating. Yeah. And the chemistry that she has with Joel. Yes. And then, of course, the chemistry she has with Ellie. But I just think she's not someone whose work I was previously familiar with. And I just think she's

Strong cosine here. Strong same. I had a fun experience where I was like, why is this person not the most famous person alive? And then Googled her and I was like, oh, she kind of is. She's like a sub-following. She's extraordinary.

All of the different notes, like the I can't wait to talk later about the dance and the kiss and the, oh my God, just like the magnetism of that moment. We have the real and many different sequences in the episode, like easy charm and humor. We obviously have this great bond with Ellie and Dina, but also these important contrasts, you know, the ease with which Dina is moving through the dance or the world.

like all of these things that we feel so quickly right away and to your point about all the different pairings right away like also just in terms of the kind of like parental or not pairings we have like

To go from Dina and Joel to then Tommy and Ellie is just, like, such a effective disruption of our expectations for who we'd be spending time with and how. But, yeah, I agree with you. Like, I thought the... And she's got a lot of the episode on her shoulders. Like, a lot. And she was just magnificent. Absolutely crushed it. I love that Dina clocks that he's in therapy with Gail. This was incredible. I love the sort of, like, you know, he's like,

I don't know. It's fine. It's normal. It's fine. And then he's like, oh, but I'm trying and she's not. This is Joel in a yearn space. He is yearning for connection with Ellie. Yes. These goddamn writers love a yearn, right? And we love a yearn, which is part of why we love this show. We love a yearn. But like thinking about Tess yearning for Joel, which was something never asked you to feel the way I felt. It was so tough. Ugh.

like sort of yearning after Joel who was closed off for a few episodes before he cracked open for her Joel for Sarah you know and now Joel for Ellie and Ellie for Dina which we'll get to in a second and I just think that like that yearn which I I love a yearn so much um

But the table flip of like, Joel was closed off. Ellie was trying to sort of like crack him. And now Ellie's closed off and Joel's like, I'm trying. I don't know what to do. And we don't have all the context for what has happened in the interviewing five years. Is this just she's a 19-year-old? We don't think so. Right. And Gail certainly doesn't think so. Right. And so what...

I don't know, further information as Ellie learned in the intervening years. Wait, does she actually know something? Is it a mounting suspicion? Yeah. She can no longer ignore that feeling in her gut? Like, I can't wait to find out. On that yearning point, like, I was so struck. Part of the reason that Pedro Pascal is one of the great gifts of our lives. Yeah. Just to say it, it's true. He can convey so much with half a glance. With one, like, wrinkle of a certain part of his face. It's just incredible. And, like...

The little flash of gratitude that passed on his face here when Dina just showed interest in him and made him feel like he had something to impart. Obviously, we will hear him like literally say this to Gail later. But the way you felt it here before he voiced it, you think back to like when he was writing

when he was so vulnerable revealing to Tommy in season one, episode six, like I'm failing in my sleep. Like his fear that he was going to get Ellie killed, his fear that he was inadequate. And so like a moment like this that makes him feel not only adequate in contrast to what's going on with him and Ellie right now, but like he has something actively tangible to offer that can improve somebody else's circumstance. Um,

There was a desperation there. I just loved it. He wants to provide. This is something they talked about a lot in season one, that like Joel's favorite role is protector provider, right? So he's providing information for Dana here. Later, he will be like teaching his nephew Benji. You don't lick the wires to test. That's what I... He taught us something too. Is that your most important takeaway? In the top five. Okay, great. In the top five. Now I know.

Dina knows and I know. In that British GQ piece that I cited earlier, I loved this Craig Mazin quote about sort of like why he was so interested in adapting this for Teller or what he so valued about the game. And he says, quote, confidence that story and characters were worth stopping for. And this is so interesting when we think about

gameplay as like an active you know when you're playing The Last of Us you know because you're playing I only know because I'm watching but like you know you're being attacked by mushroom zombies and you're jumping on their backs and you're stabbing them like you're doing all these things love a stealth grab and stab it's so scary their mouths are right there to bite at you that's my favorite move but simply candidly because I'm just so bad at shooting but like

There's action, there's danger, there's all of this. And we get action and danger inside of this episode. But what we so loved about season one is how much time was also just spent in quiet conversation. So Dina sitting down to talk to Joel here is incredible. Ellie and Tommy are, of course, doing a slightly more violent version of this. But it's interesting that you talk about parental... My Ellie-Tommy vibe, but this is similar to how Tommy was with Sarah, is like...

We're pals being bros. Yes. We're hanging out. Yes. I'm not your father. I'm not your uncle. I'm like your bro. I'm your pal. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's I have more to say on the specific activity they're doing in terms of the shift that that points to there. But yeah, I do agree with that. A lot of them out there. Very, very ominous line. What do you want to say about the activity? This idea of learning to shoot, you know, when the the the.

I just love to see those fungal plates explode. Ellie lands the headshot. They're giggling. They're proud, right? This scope is sick. It ain't the scope. It's the shooter. You're getting good. First of all, we think back to like Tom, all of Tommy's boasts that Joel immediately called bullshit on about like, you know, it's a turkey shoot with all this open country and I can, I boom from like half a mile out. But so much of season one was like,

Like one of the real true genuine through lines of season one was Ellie wanted to learn to shoot. And then like, how did we track what happened there? So the initial Joel and Tess just like, no, you know, I've got another hand. No. Ellie just wants that gun. She wants that gun. To the point where she takes it in secret from the desk drawer at Bill and Frank's. Ends up using it to save Joel's life. R.I.P. Brian. Sad. Really begged at the end. Uh,

The moment where Joel eases in to tutelage, right? Talking about the grip, how you hold it. That wasn't the end point. We then have like in episode six where they have the, you know, iconic famous argument in that bedroom that we'll talk about more elsewhere in the episode today. Yeah.

They're arguing about Sarah. Ellie's like, I would just be more scared. All of the things that are bubbling to the surface. And it's only after they break through that and Joel makes the choice. It shouldn't be Tommy. Ellie at least deserves to decide. She picks Joel. They go. That they finally do the full thing, right? Squeeze that trigger like you love it. You trying to teach me to shoot or like get this thing pregnant? The little target with the word asshole written on it. Like Joel being next to Ellie's side as she worked to get better with a rifle, with a shotgun. Like, oh my God.

was so central to the evolution of their relationship and so like I thought it was really cool to see that Ellie and Tommy were doing this together and that they bonded and that they were in a good place with each other but like it signaled so much to me about the distance between Joel and Ellie that he wasn't the one out there doing that with her and then of course there's the lie about like I was alone yeah yeah Tommy that's them's cheating words um I think that like

I think that's such a good observation and it reminded me of later in the episode we get Dina and Ellie bonding over puns, which was like a similar way that we tracked in season one, the relationship between Ellie and Joel. But it's like puns for Ellie and Joel, that's an us thing. It was an Ellie and Riley thing too, but like this is an us thing. Shout out Will Livingstone. You know, she...

It's harder to practice. This is an us thing. But it's things that she's doing with Tommy and things that she's doing with Ellie because she's not in a place where she can do them with Joel right now. Yeah, it's like heartbreaking. Yeah. Speaking of uncles, though, Joel is, you know, getting in some uncle time with little Benji, who's an adorable little...

Peanut, a really cute kid. So precious. I loved this. We get this shot. He's on the ground while, you know, Maria and Joel are having like an important logistical conversation about infrastructure and building it and stuff like that. And he's playing with this plane in the air. And I think it's so interesting, like as a callback to season one of...

We talked about this a lot in season one, this idea of generations inside of apocalypse. This is something that they talk about in season 11 as well. Add one to the talent. The people who were born back when the world was normal. And then you've got someone like Ellie who was born after the apocalypse, right? She doesn't know any different. This is something that Tess talked about, right? They don't know any different. Yeah.

Then you get someone like Benji, who was born in this sort of, like, maybe relative calm and peace of Jackson. Stability, yeah. And so that's a different experience entirely. But Ellie and Benji both have never and probably maybe will never see a plane in the air. So the fact that we see him playing with this plane in the air is like watching a kid play with dragons. Totally. This is like a mythical creature. Yes. What I wrote down in my notes was, like, our version of playing with an X-Wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And, like, you know, when we think about...

that moment with Ellie and Joel where they passed the wreckage of the plane on their way to Bill and Frank's. And like, you know, it's really funny because he's like, she thinks, oh, you're so lucky. And he's like, well, you know, they weren't just like grim. So we get the humor. But there was that just,

that perspective, right? Of like the things that are just routine for us now that we take for granted. And what would it actually be like if they were all gone? Now I'm just saying something that is about like dystopian storytelling more broadly, but it is a part of what I think is a consistent draw for us. Um,

That, like, on the Station Eleven front, it had a, like, a Museum of Civilization, you know, element to it as well with, like, obviously it's not an iPod, but just, like, collecting these, like, a relic from Silo, like, these things from the past that, I don't know, I really love that. And the other kind of quick glimpse right at the beginning of that section of, like, we see a...

cart full of refugees come in because they're all the bags and they go past a couple dogs. So I thought that was also a really quick, effective way to show us that things in Jackson have changed. This is part of the tension here between Joel and Maria because she's like, you were a refugee too. Let's build, build, build. Yeah. Yes. We got to welcome people in. Like,

Those dogs, I'm sure they're still doing all of the same screening and like making sure that people aren't infected when they come in. But the, oh, what if that's the river of death? Like the aura around Jackson in season one was head that way and die. Yeah. Head that way and perish. But now it's.

Refugees welcome. It's an oasis. Yeah. That's so different over just a few years. It's so different, but it's so dangerous because if you get that reputation as an oasis, then sort of... Yeah. And that was one of the things Joel kind of... Build that wall, maybe? But in season one, Joel was like, are we the wrong sort? You know? Like the idea that they could be afraid of them. And now for Joel to be the one here who's like...

yeah, like, if our lifeboat is swamped, yeah, we leave them out here. And Maria's really, like, appalled by that. But that's, of course, the exact same impulse that led Joel to make the decision that he made in Salt Lake City, right? Protect yours at the expense of anyone else. But it's, like, in... It's...

baked into who he is because when we meet him in season one, episode one, and they're fleeing in Texas and Tommy and Sarah both are like, hey, those people need help. Hey, they have a baby. And Joel's like, don't care. Someone else will stop. Not us. Yes. It's a great call because that's before he lost Sarah. We talk a lot about losing Sarah. And of course it is this defining occurrence in his life. But you're right. It's impulse and instinct for him before then. He's like, this is the us. The us is Tommy, Joel, Sarah in this car. That's it.

You know? Yes. Joel is very cute with Benji, though. This was adorable. But the message is upsetting. This is where we live. Oh.

Hmm. What's that? The fence. What's inside? People. What's outside? Monsters. Right? It's like, who's in here? People. Yes. Who's out there? Monsters. And on one level, sure. This is a trailer line. We talked about it then. Like, on one level, sure. There's people with mushrooms growing out of their heads outside. Absolutely. But there's also that cart of people that you just cited who came in. Those are people outside. But are they monsters? Because they're outsiders. They're the them. We're the us. Yes. Sort of thing.

That was another real recurring refrain across the first season with Joel and Ellie, the idea that the real threat always was other people. And that just is a true thing in this world. And it's certainly something that Joel considers to be inextricable from his worldview and how he conducts himself. So it was like,

it's interesting to think of like what you're saying, you know, the idea of Benji coming up in this relative period of safety and stability in place of a safe harbor. But that being the thing you hear and learn, like that being what you're weaned on. They're monsters. Everywhere. Everywhere except right here. It's very Cersei Lannister. Yes. Everyone who isn't us. Everyone who isn't us is the enemy. Exactly. What did you think of...

construct-o-meter did you think that this was just a tease for Fantastic Four real Reed Richards energy here with construct-o-meter and also wonderful to make us think back to Tess in season one like okay this has been construction corner with Joel Miller and the way Ellie was like contractor I've always loved that uh no you in setting Fantastic Four makes me think of the voice memo we got from Van uh

Historic stuff, even by Van's usual standards. I love it. Dobbins replied like eight hours later to be like, I knew I had to wait until the kids were a bit, but it was worth the wait. Van sent us a Fantastic Four rap that he has composed that I'm sure will make it onto the Midnight Boys at some point. It has to. So stay tuned.

Also, the fact that we're looking at maps. Okay, so Joel, as we very first met him, was in construction. This has been a through line. Contractor! But also...

When he's talking... He and Tommy are talking to Sarah in the first episode. Yes. They're talking about Jakarta, right? They're talking about the news. And Tommy and Joel are not quite up on where Jakarta is. And Sarah knows. Yeah. And they're like, she's our bright spark for the future, right? Sarah has been paying attention in school in a way that we never did. So that's great. But it's Jakarta. It's Indonesia. It's the world, you know, sort of thing. And it's... Now it's just...

The map is just Jackson and what's inside the wall and what's outside the wall. And that is how the world has shrunk in this post-apocalyptic space. Yeah. And like, oh, God, that's a great observation. Like, in some ways you would think, oh, that would make it easier. Easier to maintain, protect, protect.

to do all the things that Joel is inclined to do, but also that then has a real... There's a possibility there that it heightens all the bad aspects of that, right? Like, this was something else we talked about throughout season one and something that Mason and Druckmann both spoke consistently so beautifully about. Like, love, parents' love, love in general, wonderful and also dangerous. And that was the other thing that was really, I thought, powerful about, even though it was short, seeing Joel...

seeing him, like, prop him on his lap and just be, like, so sweet with him and just to see Tommy walk in and scoop up his son and kiss him and hold him and go over to Maria because, like, I mean, there are a lot of, like, soul-shattering, really upsetting things that happen in season one. I will posit till the day I die that one of the most upsetting moments is when Tommy tells Joel that he's going to have a kid and Tommy says, I feel like I'd be a good dad and Joel is so...

so subsumed by his own grief that he says, guess we'll find out. And just is not, genuinely is not capable of being happy for his brother because he is so lost in his own sorrow, which again is very human and very relatable and part of why Joel is such an incredible character, but was like devastating to see. And so the fact that he can celebrate Tommy's family and like they can share that together, I just thought really moving. Are you ready to go to therapy?

This is one of my favorite scenes in the recent history of television. I thought this was unbelievable. I just fucking... I mean, we had the pleasure of doing the Best in Show rewatchable recently, so we've very recently talked about Catherine O'Hara. Good old Cookie, yeah. She is... I tend to... I don't know. I'm inclined toward hyperbole and might throw out...

Might just slightly overuse, like, legend, great, iconic. But she is, like, actually one of the greats. And this use of her. So this is an adaptive change, we should say. So a couple things. We didn't mention this, but we did talk about it in season one. Benji, Maria and Tommy's kid. Yeah. That's a show invention. Yes. Correct. And he gave me a very evasive answer, but I did ask Ariel Luna about...

What has it changed for Tommy that he's a dad versus the Tommy that we know in the game? They just didn't want to say anything about it. They were scared to say anything about anything. You know what I mean? But he's just like, he's a dad. You know, he was just sort of like giving me a little glib answer, which is fine. But like, but it's a huge difference. Tommy is a dad. That's a different character. No question. And Gale is.

is a show-invented character. Eugene is not, who she mentions right away. Yeah. Right away, Joel walks in and he immediately clocks the shoes, right? And this is another Last of Us moment, right? This is the last of... At some point, Gil's gonna have to throw Eugene's shoes out or get rid of them, right? I mean, maybe she'll keep them there forever. Shoes are...

There's not an endless supply of shoes in the world. That's true. They need to recycle the boots. This was really sad. Seeing the shoes there. Like he might just walk down at any point. Yeah, and Joel's reaction to that. And especially like you watch it the first time and if you haven't played the game and don't know anything about anything, you're just sort of like, oh, some shoes. Joel's reacting weirdly too. And then you get the reveal inside of this therapy session of...

Not only is Gail drinking and upset because it's her birthday and she's sad and her husband isn't here, but Joel is the one who killed her husband. Now, he had to do it, she says, but it's the way he did it that makes her so angry. And we don't know what that is. Absolutely no idea. This made my heart pound in my chest in a way. Like, I love feeling when I'm watching something. What?

we hear Gail say, what did you do to Joel in this exchange? But like, then in this other context with Eugene, like, what did he do? What happened? Why did he have to kill Eugene? Was Eugene infected? Okay. And then if he was, what was so inhumane about the way that Joel handled that? Right. And this is what would be so angry about it. We can speculate freely because like,

This is a change from the game. You know, in the game, Eugene is present. Like, it was really fun to me that he was paying in weed because, like, we get to see. It's like, I mean, very impressive. Yeah. Weed palace of Eugene's and we, you know, discover, like, a letter and we see photos of him, but...

that's different. Gale is, like you said, a show invention and this relationship. He has a wife in the game, but it's a different name, different character. And Eugene is like, it's just different. And we hear, actually, other characters talk about how he just got old and died of a stroke. Yeah. And how lucky to die of natural causes is what they say. What a rare and enviable thing in this universe. And that is not how this Eugene went. And I mean, similar to...

Similarly, like when they did the Frank and Bill story in season one, they made some significant. Those were not just not just those are character a character we meet via letter or whatever. Right. But they changed the end of their story significantly. So are we going to get a Gail and Eugene? We know that they have cast Joey fucking pants. Joey pants as Eugene. I just can't believe we get to watch this. Are we going to get a Eugene and Gail episode?

I'm not sure I would survive it. Survive and endure, they say, but I'm not sure I would be able to. That would be incredible. I can't wait. Is it not a whole episode, but just flashbacks? I don't know, but I cannot wait. They may not want to do a whole episode the way that, you know, I mean, Bill and Frank wasn't that whole episode because there was Joel and Ellie in that as well. But like,

Okay. Interesting. Something that I think is so interesting, again, rewatching season one, episode one, there's this exchange in season one, episode one, where Tess is being held captive by some people who have fucked her over. And they're basically scared to let her go. Yeah. Because they're like, what? She's like, I'll just forget about it. Don't worry. I've done fucked up stuff. And they're like, yeah, but what about your guy? Yeah. Because they're scared to

shitless about Joel. Yep. And I feel a similar thing here where Gail's just like, I'm angry at you, but also like, I think she's just like,

a little scared because she's like, should I say it? Yeah, I'll just say it. You know, but there's like a little bit of fear there from her with Joel. And then when she asks him, like, did you hurt Ellie? There's a way in which she thinks of Joel as something to be feared. He's something to be feared in absentia in season one, episode one. He's something to be feared inside of a therapy session by his own therapist. Heather on Daredevil, pay attention. You know what I mean? Like this is a, I think this is like a really fascinating thing.

exchange. Did you do something to her? Did you hurt her? Oh, my God. Joel's face here, the tears, the shaking of the head. Like, I just thought this was all so striking. That Gail, Gail girding herself up like, should I say it out loud? Yeah, I should. You can't heal something unless you're brave enough to say it out loud.

We just met this character, show invention, tells us so much right away about who this person is, what they're carrying inside, how they navigate life, about that dynamic with Joel, as you're brilliantly highlighting. But what does it tell us then about the person on the couch across from her, right? It's like, you can't heal something unless you're brave enough to say it out loud. Like,

this is a very pregnant idea for us to be carrying with us this season where this looming specter of this choice that Joel made and this lie that he told Ellie and this distance and secret between them. And we don't know if he's told anyone. And this is like, so here he says, And what? What did you do? I saved her.

But he doesn't get into any particulars here. So Gail doesn't necessarily know. Right. And that I saved her line. Yes. We don't want to get too much into it necessarily right here. But like that I saved her line is something he says to Tommy. Yes. Inside of the game. Yes. But here it's to Gail. Yes. And so it's like a very different. Very different. Kind of conversation to have with Gail versus to have with Tommy. Yes.

Other than Catherine O'Hara being a Canadian treasure and the dream and the prospect of having a Gail and Eugene episode or interlude or something like that, what do you make of adding a therapist, adding therapy to our time with Joel here? This is just an incredible creative decision. I mean, I agree. I just want to say, can I just say really quick? I just asked you a question and then I'm going to interrupt you. No, please.

There are times that this doesn't work for me. Therapist as exposition. For sure. Often doesn't go for me. I'm with you completely. I think the reason I love this is not just because Joel has so much he's carrying and so much he needs to work through, but because he is, as Gail calls him out on repeatedly here,

not using therapy to do that at all. Right. He is sitting there and he is lying. I thought it was like very charming and cute and a great Joel way to be like, what do I get for it? Nothing. Like should have never allowed her to move into the garage. Like,

You know, to go back to the Dina-Joel scene, because, like, we get two, a couple moments of this, like, you know, Joel with Dina is kind of like, it's, yeah, well, you know, she's 19. Like, oh, what I am to her, like, normal. And then Gail kind of, like, taking that same idea, but, like, repositioning it here. Like, stop pretending you have the most boring idea in the world. And this has always been something I've loved about the show and particularly love in this context. Like, the way that it does...

It can and does have it both ways. We're like, of course this is true. It's not the most boring problem in the world. We know what Joel did. And like, there is a real distinct, unmatched in any other person's life, thing that happened between them that we're feeling the weight of and that has carried forward into the future. But also, there is actually, despite that driver, like a 19-year-old who is like 16,

stop coming into my bedroom and turning on the lights. I want the lights off element to it. And that also is true. I'm listening to Nirvana, dad. Leave me alone. I love that part of it. And so like when he, he just like when he was talking about Dina the Gale and he was like, that one, Dina. Yeah. Treats me like a human being. She talks to me, says hello, gives me a smile, looks up to me, makes me feel like I'm a good guy, which I am, which he doesn't believe. I mean, I,

What a thing to say out loud and try to convince that other person of, and of course, most crucially, try to convince himself of. We can think back to Tess saying to Ellie, like, Joel and I aren't good people, and all the things that are revealed just across season one before the decision in the finale. What Maria said to Ellie, what Tommy has said about their time, Tommy talking about the justification. Right. Right. But so, like, how can Joel make the kind of progress Tommy has made if Joel doesn't have that kind of, like, a...

inward clarity and to not then to be in therapy but not use it for that it's just like help me get her to like talk to me again yeah it again it's like utilitarian for him and gail's like that's not the work

I just thought this was really, really, really fascinating. Aren't you supposed to be validating me or something? Just iconic Instant Pantheon moment. Wonderful stuff. I absolutely loved it. We get an utterance of tick, tick, tick. And also the egg timer that was in the trailer. And we should note that in the first game, the first sound you hear in The Last of Us Part 1, the first game, is the ticking of a clock. So this idea of...

time passing, time running out. Maria being like, can you speed up construction? And Joel being like, sure, let me invent something that will change how time works for you. You know, this idea of, you know, five years in a blink of an eye for us as viewers. I think it's all really interesting. Okay.

Recon Mission Time with Ellie, Dina, and... Kat, the icon, Kat. It's like I've got some management notes for Kat.

Very ineffectual. Okay. So we get, I mean, like before we go on the recon, we get this Nirvana needle drop, right? We're not, 80s music means danger. Does that mean the 90s hits means safety? I sure hope so. I love that for me. Oh, man. It's just fun to see this room, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. So many details from the game are here. The lava lamp is here. Yes. The posters are similar. We've got like the astronaut. We know Ellie wanted that. That was her dream, right? Going to space, like all of that.

That was a Savage Starlight poster. Lava lamp was key to me. I was a huge lava lamp enthusiast when I was a teen. I had them for years. Yeah. I mean, into like, I would say beyond my teen years, actually. If I'm being honest. I will tell you that. I don't have one now. It was sort of disappointing to me. You know when you get a lava lamp and it's in pieces and you find out that the top is just like a bottle with a bottle cap on it?

Yeah. That's real sort of... It just looks like you could open it like a root beer. Don't. Don't. Don't do that. Don't drink it. Oh, man. Yeah. I do remember that well. What color lava lamp did you like best? Well, I only had ever one. Okay. I loved it. It was red with like white goop in it or like white orange goop in it. So, yeah, it was just sort of like this light goopiness inside of the red. What was yours? Beautiful.

Should I get a love lamp? Clearly the answer is yes. Should we get one for the studio? Yes, let's do it. Guys, when Joe's back later this summer, let's make sure we have a love lamp. The one that I had in my teenage years and then later Adam got me one.

They were both actually kind of like teal. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. Purple is also a good. Wonderful stuff. But I love OG Red. Big fan. Okay. What did you think of the practice hand with which Ellie was cleaning those guns, man? Again, talk about a shorthand. This is just a part of her life. Just a girl's life. Just classic girl stuff in her room stuff. So you had this elsewhere in the doc, but...

To call back to that, like, this is a girl's life, just a girl in her room. Like, that moment in season one where Ellie's sitting on the window bench, like, reading the journal from the person who used to live there. And like, this was like the stuff they worried about. Boys? Skirts? This is like, that's, this is just a different vibe. And then we'll talk later about how, oh, is it a different vibe in another moment? But here it's like, God, I don't know.

A 19-year-old who has to sit there and clean all of their weaponry to survive on patrol, it's not the before times. That's for sure. Everyone has their hobbies, and I refuse to hobby shame Ellie. Anyway, so Dina shows up. Yes. We get this, like, very loaded, Dina's adjusting her clothing, and, like, it's up to her.

up to Belly Ramsey's face to tell us exactly what's going on and it absolutely killed us. Classic teenage moment. Just like immediately. We had already met Dina and we were like, you're her best friend. Yes. Right? She hasn't talked to you about why she's mad at me. So we're like, oh, the best friend. And then you're like, nope, that's not what's going on. That's not the energy. They were roommates. No, they are not. Oh,

Ellie grabs her knife. That's her mom's knife. Yes. Yeah. And then she goes out to see Shimmer, her horse that we met in season one. Beautiful, sweet Shimmer, all grown up. Ellie looking like Curtis and Viper as both Dina and Jessie call out. Very amusing. And like Bella, you know, there's the drama of what's going on with Ellie and Joel, which we as the audience doesn't know. The town doesn't know. Everyone's trying to figure out. This is also just an incredibly funny episode. Very funny, yeah. And...

Bella's comedic timing is just... I mean, like, you know, the Dina stuff is great. Dina's really funny. Jessie's funny. But, like...

And Ellie's, like, smart. Like, what the hell, man? Like, you know, just, like, all of her, all of that stuff is, like, really good. I love the, like, you know you're only four years older than us, right? Like, that's just, like, smart-ass energy. Really, really, really great. I enjoyed that. And Dina, too. She's, like, cutting off Jesse and just runs through, like, all of the things he was about to say. Well, yeah. And that's why they're, like, a perfectly matched pair. They're just, like, all sassy, snarky, saucy. Okay. Okay.

Molly Rubin, Game of Thrones enthusiast. Did you write down something about the Night's Watch in your notes when you see this group go out through the gate into the land of always winter?

It always just gives me that little feeling in my chest, you know? It's a wonderful thing. Yeah. It's a wonderful thing. And also, everything's always fine when they... Oh, yeah. When they go out beyond the wall. When they go out beyond the wall, it's always fine. Everything's absolutely fine. We get the barbecue, the pun bonding, and then we get Green Place Market. So we should say, so... Yeah. Things in this episode, some of these things in the episode do not happen at all in the game. This Green Place Market look, the truck, the signage, all that sort of stuff, the

The bear is a moose. Don't worry about it. That's fine. You can't make a pun out of moose. But like, don't, don't worry about it. I'm going to get back to you next episode. But, you know, climbing up the truck to get into the window, the clickers, like the clicker and the stalker are different, but like this is, it is different. This is an interior thing.

let's hunt some orc, you know, inside of a market moment inside of the game. And right down to our very good boy being the July employee of the month. And then, you know, that comes into play with a thing you need later to open a vault. So it's just all great. Ellie and Dina having their sort of silent, hilarious. I love this. But silent conversation about like, yeah, yeah.

So good. See, if you're not watching on video, you have no idea what we just did.

Some great gestures that no one should ever freeze frame. So anyway, like, all of that is wonderful. We get the sense that Ellie is, you know, Dina's like, it matches Ellie's energy. Right. But Ellie is just a little bit more impulsive. Yes. They're both on the front line because like Ellie's like, well, you want to let the men do it? And he's like, fuck that, let's go in. But like Ellie's maybe a touch more reckless. She's like two on one. Yeah. And Dina's like, wait a second. What if we waited just like,

literally two more seconds. And then Ellie goes to the floor and Dina's like, don't move. In the tone of voice of someone who's like, I know you're going to, but could you try to not move while I figure out how to get to you, please?

Has just not a part of her beliefs that Ellie will remain where she said she was going to remain. I think on the comedy front, because you're right, it's a very funny episode. You know, and Ellie being like, well, there could be regular people in just to like get away from Kat and go inside. What if there's a toddler? There's a baby. Love these two. Okay. Absolutely love them.

Horrifying thing that happens. We saw this in the trailer. Mallory clutched my arm when this happened, when we saw the premiere. The stalker. The skittering in the back three different times in this sequence. The hat trick of skitters. Terrible. You know what the single scariest thing was? Not just because of the alarm of like, okay, I would just be, I'm just, it's, I'm dead. I'm dead right away. When the stalker hid in what I think is like,

what should have and would have back in the past been the underbelly refrigeration unit of what I think is a cheese display. Yeah. Meant to be, to befoul the sanctity of a grocery store cheese display. Shocking behavior. Before showing us that your tendrils yearn from your nose. Mushrooms and cheese go so well together. You brought me back. I did. You brought me back. A cheesy mushroomy omelet? You brought

A cheesy mushroomy quiche? That sounds really good right now. We need eggs. Starving. Okay, so...

The stalker is horrifying. This is a different kind of critter than anything we met in season one. Here is the technical definition of a stalker, if one cares. Stalkers are people who have been infected from somewhere between two weeks to a year. Per their name, they stalk and hide from prey in the dark and attack in opportune moments. Some also latch on to balls and allow the cordyceps to fester, keeping the host alive until prey walks by, at which point the stalker breaks free and attacks.

Sick! Sickos! Okay. Oh, man. Did you think this... I mean, maybe I'm just latching on to, like... Do you think this girl was designed at all to look like Ellie?

It had not occurred to me. Yeah. But it's possible that I was just too distracted by the tendrils coming out of the nose, which I was so horrified by. The pretty little, like, horn antler crown that she's wearing of tendrils. Listen, Ellie later is telling the council, like, Tommy's like, so you're saying it's smart? Like, well, it couldn't do math, but it did all the things we did. Wear that crown!

You're a smart infected. Yeah. Crown up. Why not? Flex. I like it. Oh, my God. Absolutely horrifying. I found this to be so deeply disturbing and unsettling. I'm so glad you brought up the cheesecake. Here's my most disgusting moment. So Ellie gets bit. She's fine. We know she's fine. We think she's fine. I mean, I don't know. She's fine, right? Yeah. How many times has Ellie... Well, we missed a lot of years, so we don't know, but Ellie had the original bite from the Riley Mall, the escapade, the...

second arm bite with Joel and Tess at the museum. I was like, well, if it was going to be anyone. And now, I mean, this is like, I think often of Tess's counsel to Ellie, which was like, you're not immune from being ripped apart and would like Ellie to be a tad more careful. Yeah.

This is a lot of bites doing correct. For me, there's the bite and you see the bite and there's just like a little tendril just like worming around, around the bite wound. And that made me very deeply upset on like a profound, profound level.

Ellie and Dina report to the council. Dina lies and says she saw the same thing that Ellie did. And how does this council strike you in terms of functionality? Do you have any notes? I have some notes for the fine folks of Jackson, Wyoming, which is what the fuck are you doing? You've built this beautiful hub and actual civilization and actual society online.

Take this a little more seriously. I, too, would be excited to go to the New Year's dance. I wouldn't. I would have stayed home. No, you would have come. If everyone in town is going and there's no DoorDash. Is there someone there I'm trying to fuck? What if I'm like, Valerie, will you come to the dance and hang out with me?

I would go if you asked me, but I would definitely be in the Ellie, Jessie, I'm standing on the side. No, you're not them. I am not dancing. You're Gail. Yeah, I was like sitting with my whiskey tumbler. Even further in a corner. Sitting with my whiskey tumbler. Yeah, talking to no one. Watching. Perhaps Catherine O'Hara was not even on set when they shot this. Is that how that struck me? Yes. You're right. You're right. Yes, I have had my herbal tea and now I have my whiskey. That great call. Yeah.

Maria's like, Dina clearly lying, but I believe what Ellie says. Also, I've had this feeling. One of the members of the council who has clearly been into Farmer Maggot's Crop slash Eugene's Weed Palace Crop is just quoting Lily Tomlin. Honestly, great stuff. Generally, one of the...

I really hope we have... I hope that Mason and Druckmann talk about this on the official podcast. They have a lot to get to, but if they could address the Lily Tomlin quote, I would really appreciate it. Wild stuff. Incredible moment. But like, Maria's like, I've had a feeling.

And Tommy's like, yeah, you know, someone's like, what about the six by the. It's not a horde. I just want Tommy to be taking this a little more seriously because there are a number of an infected behaving differently should scare the shit out of them. You delay New Year's. You either skip it or you delay it. What do you do instead? You go figure out how to make sure you don't die. How these stalkers don't kill you. Also, someone while you're at it, take a fucking look.

bring your sparklers or whatever for illumination in the roots of the pipe oh my god okay would uh would you and joel have gone in there yeah but it's different why is it different maria being like yeah why great stuff great stuff loved it okay at long last us the real us oh man this is us this is ellie and joel

As you mentioned, when Ellie comes to Jackson for the first time, she finds this diary and she's like, what the shit is this? Is this what you thought about? Is this all you had to worry about? Boys, movies, deciding which shirt goes with which skirt. But here's Ellie. Yeah.

journaling about a crush. I loved this. Don't fuck it up. Don't fuck it up. Yeah, we see this journal not in this moment in the game, but a little bit later. And it's a little different, but that don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up is part of that journal. That is eternally true for Ellie in the game and Ellie in the show. Don't fuck it up. Don't fuck it up. Dina is your best friend. Ellie's greatest fear is being alone, right? And she is isolated from Joel right now. She's inside the community, but not really. And Dina is like

Definitely Dina and Tommy, I would say, are like her strongest lifelines. And if she... And we also know that like, I mean, as we'll find out from Seth...

Jackson is not entirely chill with gay people. And we had that line from Dina when she was- You're the other one. Why were you going to take Kat? You're the other one. So not a lot of openly gay people in the community. That's what I was going to say. I was going to raise poor Kat and I would just say that- I thought that line was really funny. And it is like definitely something that is true for queer people being like, hey, I know you and I know one other gay people. Should you date? Is that a thing that should happen? Like-

I loved that line. But yeah, there's not a ton of out people. So Ellie is in a space where she feels like...

she has to suppress these feelings. And even though Dina and, you know, Dina's given her a lot of signals at the dance. Right. And has to like be the one to take the action because Ellie's like, surely not. Right. Yeah. Surely she shouldn't, she can't mean this. Right. And even before that on the ride, like what's going on with you and Jesse? You guys will be back together in no time. Telling Jesse you'll be back together in no time. Jesse's like the one who's like. I don't think so. I don't think so. Like she's into you. You just haven't allowed yourself to realize it. I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Pretty cool of Jesse, by the way. Okay, so. I love Jesse. Here comes Joel. Dude. He picks up a guitar. He runs his hand lovingly over the moth insignia. Beautiful. And says he'll fix the strings. Joel loves to be in fix-it provider mode, as we already mentioned. And then I love how he's like, okay, I'll fix the strings. Bye. You'll have it tomorrow. Bye. You'll have it tomorrow. You didn't want me to turn the light on, but you'll have it tomorrow. Yeah. Oh, man.

fixing things, paying attention to things. This is how we show our love, Mallory. But like, we had multiple moments in season one where Joel talked about wanting to be a singer. Yeah. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a singer is what he says in episode six. And Ellie's kind of laughing at him. And she's like,

You got to sing something now. He's like, no, blah, blah. And then episode nine, they see this guitar in the RV and he said, it was all smashed up. It got me thinking maybe I should find one. I haven't played in forever. In fact, I was thinking maybe I could teach you. I bet you'd be great at it. Do you want to learn how to play the guitar? Ellie? She's not the elder on this conversation. She goes, oh yeah, that'd be great. Yep. And presumably...

You know, he's like, he's taught her something at some point. Yeah, you've been playing? Yeah. The strings being shot means they've been used? Or sometimes neglect can make the strings lose their mojo. Oh, man. This is tough.

But not the hardest thing we see because we've still got a little ways to go. We're ringing in 2029 New Year with Britney and the Jug Boys. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to mention the premiere after party? Yeah, we got to see them perform live. We got to see them perform. They did a little setup of the stage with the lights and everything. We were making a few rounds looking for mushroom cuisine and then we settled in to watch the concert. Yeah, it was great. It was really fun.

fun. No past mushroom hors d'oeuvres that we could see at the... Shocking stuff. Absolutely shocking. Some delicious looking like cheesy pasta though. Oh, thank you HBO. It was a great party. But we were sure there would be mushrooms.

You know who I saw? Like, we talked to a couple people, but you know who I saw that I didn't, like, elbow you or, like, say anything about or whatever? Shannon Woodward, who voiced Regina in the game, was sort of instrumental for connecting Craig Mazin with Neil Druckmann for this being on HBO. I don't know for sure, but the fact that, like,

Halle, who we mentioned was the co-writer of The Last of Us Part II, was a Westworld and Shannon Woodward was on Westworld. So I don't know if that's how like Shannon got into like voicing Dina in the first place through Halle or something like that. But I was like, oh, Shannon Woodward, you're kind of the reason why we're here. And I didn't say anything to her, but I was just like, there she goes. It's Shannon Woodward. You were rocking out to the apocalyptic bluegrass. Probably. Sounds right. Sounds about right.

Oh, man. Ellie, the smitten kitten that she is, is watching Dina, who's both an absolutely undeniable bright spark and a bit of a hot mess as she, you know. I loved everything about this. This is such, it is so hard to pull off, like, every, everyone.

She's like the jewel of Jackson, Dina, which is a different characterization, I would say. Again, I'm not like all the way through the game, but like Dina, the Dina that we spend time with in the game thus far from what I've seen is like in the community is like, but it's not this. This is like a different level of like effervescence and joie de vivre and joy and just sort of like

I'm just going to live. Totally. That is who this Dina is. And I just love it. I loved it, too. I loved I love I loved Jesse coming over. I loved that look of longing, the yearning on Ellie's face, watching that like appreciation for the way that Dina carries herself and just like is. I did also have a like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I had to like, are we sure the apocalypse is bad moment watching this? Because like.

I don't know. There's something about stripping away. It's bad. We're dead on day one. So whatever this new stripped down delightful life is. I have my wax trucker. I could definitely live off of just jerky for sure. For a really long time. We're dying so quickly.

Are you kidding me? I know for sure I'd be the first eliminated on Survivor because I can't go without food. You would have eaten a baked good on day one. I know you would have. You would have eaten a raisin cookie. Well, that's true. Yeah, I don't even make, you're right. I don't make it to the apocalypse because I consumed, my diet is basically just exclusively the infected flour. You're right. You're right. But like when Dina's like, you know, how bad do I smell when they start dancing? And she's like, you're so drunk. And she's like, no, I'm high. It's just like, it's delightful. It's just like,

Like, I don't know. The stripping away of all the other stuff. Horror everywhere, of course. Loss. It's unrelenting. Bill's birthday, though. Yeah. The fireworks are fireworkin', you know? Yeah. Everyone with their sparklers and their happy New Year's and their glasses of booze and their good cheer, like, for a minute here was just really, it was lovely. This is one of my favorite Craig Mazin quotes from season one, the season one podcast.

In this world, the happiest moments are interrupted by the worst moments. Yeah, wow. Okay? Yeah. So...

Dina and Ellie have this little smooch-a-roo here. It's very sexy. The whispering back and forth is very teen. This might as well be freaking Dawson's Creek as far as I'm concerned. Totally. Except when Dina says, I think they should be terrified of you, I feel like there's a double meaning in that. You know what I mean? I think there are levels to that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You're a romantic sexual threat inside of this room, but also...

You're scary. You're scary. Yeah. I think back all the time to the way that Mason described what was happening with Ellie when she watched Joel pummel Lee the Fedra. Yeah. Activated. Yeah. Right. And like the idea of how similar they are and the things that drew them to each other ultimately. And like it.

how much of that is, is still in Ellie. Like even this episode when she's arguing with Tommy about gatewatch versus patrol, it's like, if we're the same person, you know, you're not going to win this argument, but then what are the key differences and when, and then what does that mean? All of that is so interesting. I love, I love that observation. Um,

The dance, I was in tears watching this for the first time, like when we were watching this at the premiere. I just thought this was, again, when the show with all of the horror and the doom and the apocalyptic stakes around them could just for a minute give you something that is so familiar. Yeah. And like just life, right? And like,

no matter what is happening and how dire and severe it is, like the idea that life could find a way to go on for just a second, a heartbeat, a sway, a kiss. Finds a way. It's just like I was, and also they did it again. Like we were so struck by this with Ellie and Riley capturing that like this is just like that teenage like lust and yearning and love and like draw. And specifically, I thought the most striking moment was when Dina kind of brought Ellie close and wrapped her up

And that look on Ellie's face, what a performance from Bella Ramsey. That look of like, wait, this thing that I want so badly, is this about to happen? Like, is this about to happen? I want this so badly. Can I allow myself to actually believe that this is real? I just like, I just thought this was great. Also, on my latest watch through of this episode, and I've watched it several times now, we got to that song. I was like, wait, do I know this song? And I think it's just that I've seen the watch that scene too many times.

It's a jam. I don't think Britney and the Jug Boys. This is a real band. This is a band that they've used. Not that Britney and the Jug Boys is not their name, but this is a real band. Great name. And they've used their music in the game as well. But yeah, I love the song is beautiful. Yeah. Get the smooch. And then here comes Seth. Fuck this guy. The bigot and Joel, the unwanted protector.

What's more devastating? Seth's like horrifying, bigoted words or Ellie's response to Joel? What is the way Joel said, are you OK? Are you OK? Yeah. Like the thickness in his voice. And then Ellie just like, what is wrong with you? I don't need your fucking help.

If Ellie doesn't need Joel's help. The way he just goes. Yeah. Okay. Like, what does he have then? Yeah. That his entire life is oriented around that idea of need. This was so fucking crushing. And like for Joel, you know, love, protection, that impulse, that more than an impulse, the need, as you've said, to. Compulsion. Yes. Yeah.

to save, protect, provide, inextricable from violence. Pushing somebody over on a dance floor is not the same as slaughtering somebody who has the ability to find a cure and everyone around them at St. Mary's in Salt Lake City. But like, it comes from the same place. Yeah.

What does Ellie know? When did she know it? We don't know. But a very unhelpful... We go directly from what's wrong with you, Joel looking very sad as he sort of like takes that in, absorbs it. We get interstitials of like, you know, sparklers, blisters.

Bevereginos, like, good cheer, whatever. And then we cut to Joel on the porch. Okay, I can't handle it. Tears in his eyes as he's noodling. He's noodling on the guitar and then he stops. Strumming it. And then she's there and she looks at him and his face is just a portrait of devastation.

And then she walks away. I was trying to think, have I ever wanted two people to just walk toward each other more? The tears held back in his eyes. Not like streaming down his face, but just like there, that hurt, that bright spark of hurt. Okay.

And then we get the threats approaching from all sides. The yearning tendrils are coming through the pipe and Abby and her pals are stomping up in through the snow, setting their sights on Jackson. Looking out at that little glistening beacon of light. What an episode! We're back. Okay.

Three more sections before we go. We're going to do, we're going to hit Easter eggs. Yeah. We're going to do a mushroom recipe. Yeah, great. And then we're going to get to the spoilers. Okay. So you've got so much space. Yes. To get out of here if you want to. Okay. I'm going to call it just a mushroom quiche or an omelet if you prefer. It's Easter eggs.

A reminder that Craig and Neil love to not only call things Easter eggs, but priester eggs. These like things that they're planting to pay off down the road, like Mortal Kombat and, you know, like stuff like that. Okay. Anything you want to mention specifically? Yeah.

We already hit on a lot of the ones that I love. The Curtis and Viper mentions from Dina and Jesse. Of course, we can think back to Sarah getting the Curtis and Viper 2 DVD for Joel's birthday from the Adlers. The last thing they watched together. Really, really heart-wrenching stuff. I did genuinely really love getting to see the Employee of the Month pup. That was great at the grocery store. I think the camera panned down to the Bud Light bottle given...

The recurring centrality of grabbing a bottle or a brick to toss. In the show. Yeah. In the game. That was just a fun little wink there to kind of the game mechanics and game tactics. I liked that. So those were some of my favorites. And again, the nod to Eugene's weed prowess, which is crucial. What about you? Any faves? I don't think I have anything that sticks out beyond...

Just like all the set deck in her room. The posters. Yeah. Yeah. All good. Should have kept the boots with the glance down to the Converse. Ellie's Converse. It's 374 miles to Seattle, which is where Abby and her pals said they were going. Right. So we get a road sign how many miles to Seattle. This is how you know that I watch too much college football because I was really zoned in on Boise. Okay. And I was like, how's the blue turf doing this far into the apocalypse? I need to know.

I don't know what that means. Is that the AstroTurf that they put on the, like, Boise State Broncos play on an infamous blue turf? Like, really hard. Is it,

Is it like really tough? I'd say all of the, the quality of all of the modern turf has improved for the knees, but it's still not, it's not as good for any of the players' legs as grass. What was the controversy around like tough, was it, was it the like the women's soccer team has to play on harder AstroTurf than the men? Okay. That's, that's what it was. Maria would nod her head and agree. Okay. So spores galore. Yeah. This is what I'm calling our mushroom recipe thunderdome. Yes. I'm thrilled. Hobbitsanddragons.gmail.com. Send me your mushroom recipes. Yeah.

Last time we did this, a publishing company sent me a mushroom recipe book. Thanks, Inside Editions. Okay. It's a great book. Great recipes on it. Okay. Our listener, Michal, who is one of our top tier emailers, by the way, sent in this recipe for Hong Kong curry.

This sounds delicious. From the YouTube channel is Young Man Cooking Young spelled Y-E-U-N-G. And it's a bunch of baby king oysters. And I definitely watched this video. It's like a pretty simple recipe, actually. I was like, I could do this. Mm-hmm.

And like the first two, it's like less than 10, it's like 10 minutes. The first two minutes are just cutting aromatics. I was like, I can cut aromatics in my sleep. You want me to dice some ginger? Yeah, you're ready. I will mince that ginger, actually. Oh my God. You want me to dice an onion? I can do it. But then the oysters go in, the potatoes go in, the hoisin goes in. It looked scrumptious. Okay, scrumptious. I didn't get to try it, but it looks scrumptious. Will you be making this? I think so. I just need to get back to my own kitchen. Yeah. Which is...

Like a week and a half from now. Gigantic test kitchen here. I mean, Charles, I guess, is making good use of it today. Okay. That sounds fucking yummy. Now is the time on Shrockus when we talk about spoilers. A fungus among us is what I'm calling the spoiler section. Yeah. Bye. Just like, let's be...

Let's just hammer this. If you have played the game or you don't care, join us. If you do not want to hear about things that are going to happen, big things that are going to happen, things that are going to happen, don't listen past this point. You're only going to miss a few minutes. You'll hear us talk about it all eventually. It is the spoiler time where we talk about things that have not yet happened in the show that are coming in the game. Bye. Or stay.

Wow, you did a real angel devil thing right there. Goodness. Okay. Yeah. Are you for real gone? Did you leave? Did you leave? Okay. So here's the thing that anyone who's played the game knows, and a lot of people already know just because they Googled it and they were like, oh no, this is a big thing that's been looming over season two of The Last of Us, is the knowledge that very early in the game, are you gone yet? Did you leave? Did you leave? Oh my gosh!

Very early in the game. Yeah. Joel, who I don't know if you know, is played by Pedro Pascal, dies brutally at Abby's hand while Ellie watches. I played this. You texted us. I'll talk about my experience playing it more when we get to whenever this happens in the show, but I...

The question is, I can't believe you got this far without knowing this. I know. She was unspoiled. I was not unspoiled. My husband was not unspoiled, so he was filming me. I was really on the other side of the wedding thing. I haven't seen that footage. No, I'll send it to you guys. I'll send it to you guys. I have some... Oh, put it on the social when you can. Real gems coming. I look insane in all of them, but...

Beautiful. Okay. So we don't know when this is going to happen in the show. No, we have no idea. We don't know if this is why we started like a little day earlier in the timeline is to give us more time with Joel question mark. But this it could be as early as episode two. Yeah. We don't know. Right. Do you? A lot of people were wondering who was going to happen in episode one. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think there's a chance that

they make a drastic timing change here and that they save it for, like, way later? And that that has something to do with the split nature of the season? That's a good question. So it's a seven-episode season. Yeah. I think by midway they have to have done it. I think so, too. And that's only, like, three episodes. Right, because it's so short. I would be really surprised if this isn't in the second episode, but, like...

I think that because of the wallop, the way it hits you, it's so early in the game. It's so fucking early in the game. And for that regret and that despair to carry Ellie forward on the rest of her journey...

For us to be, like, so shocked. In order to... There's so much that's tied up in why this is, like, considered one of the most monumental things that's, like, ever happened in gaming. Like, it just feels like you kind of have to protect that. You play as Joel. Yes. For almost all of the... You play as Sarah a little bit and Ellie a little bit in the first game, but you are mostly Joel. Yes. Yes.

So they took Joel, the main character from The Last of Us, and they were like, bye. Okay, so from a...

business perspective. Yeah. If you're HBO, of course, and you have the Mandalorian, a.k.a. Reed Richards in your prestige Sunday night TV show. Yeah. You're going to want to keep him there. So that's the other question of like, how long can they get away with keeping him there? Or are they going to supplement it with flashbacks? Flashbacks galore. There's a key scene that

Inside this part of the gameplay where Joel comes in, it's earlier in the timeline, but he comes in and he plays fucking Future Days on the guitar for Ellie.

I weft like a baby. You get to play it. You get to, like, do the chords yourself. You get to play it, right? So that's missing here. Yeah. We believe it has to be in a flashback. It just has to be. And there are shots in the trailer of them sitting next to each other, guitar in hand. It feels like the lesson is coming and the singing would be a part of the lesson. So the mystery of, like, what happened to cause this rift between Ellie and Joel can be unspooled via flashbacks. Yes. You know? Yeah. And, like, we... I mean, even... We clocked this, like...

Even just talking about the trailers, like you're always on hair watch in a way that I really just respect, admire, cherish, value. And like, you're like, boy, does Joel's hair look like really different in a lot of these scenes. Darker and shorter. So that's those presumably are earlier in the timeline. Okay, you told me. Let's talk about this live on mic. Let's do it. This is like, this is a real, I didn't prep you for this. This is a real Van Leith and Maverick moment. Okay. Exciting. Yeah. You told me. Yes.

That you were like at the premiere because it doesn't happen the first episode. We saw the first episode of the premiere. Yes. You were like after the premiere, I was wondering. Yeah. Was it because they showed us of this season on the Last of Us trailer and there were like two shots of Joel or did I say something? Yeah.

Did I say something that tipped anything? I tried so hard not to. No, you did not. Okay. So I did not know and I had not had it spoiled. The number of times this week where my husband Adam has been like, much like you, how did you manage to avoid? He was like, I never mentioned it just in case, but I assumed that you knew. Yeah.

A lot of it was just, like, my—basically, like, my pool of candidates had shrunk for just, like, what could Abby have done that made her—that made people talk about her this way. Right. That was just a big thing. To me, there are only a few possible things that a character could do. So this was one of those things, but not the only thing I considered. That was one thing. Um—

I want to apologize for saying this to... And Steve Allman, our beautiful producer, is going to feel really guilty. You don't have to. But when I was... It's fine. But when I was mentioning, like, my goal was really to play the whole game before the season. And we were talking and, like, Arjuna and Steve were like, well...

it would be really fun to like film you playing and we can make content out of it. And then I was like, I would love to actually, but like, as long as we could edit down how embarrassing my gameplay is. But I was like, it just feels like a really, like it's really long time to do that, to sit at the office and do that versus like doing it in my pajamas without a bra and under a fleece blanket at night with my cat on my lap, my preferred method for playing. And Steve Blesin was like, it's okay. I only need you for a couple hours. And I was like,

fuck! So, like, this sense that whatever it was was early, too, and then that paired with, like, the kind of absence of longer-haired gray Joel from the trailer. I was like... And obviously, also, the other thing is just in the episode, like, Abby is just like, I want to kill him slowly. Now, I will say, that did not seal it for me in any way because Therese and one, a number of characters are trying to kill Joel. All the time, people are trying to kill Joel. Right? Constantly. People try to kill Joel all the time. Yeah.

People try to kill Joel, Henry. They try to kill Joel.

Our guy had a fucking baseball bat embedded in his gut. It's not like apparel is a new thing, but just as like kind of the opening note. I was like, no, that's concerning. There's also there's a moment inside of this episode where like Benji gives him little fake guns. You got me. You got me. You know, there's that moment. But yeah, like, you know, so my my suspicion and concern had mounted, but I did not know. And like watching it.

And again, it's just so early. It's just so soon. It was a while up. Like, it's my... We'll talk about this when we cover it, whenever it does happen. But it's a short list for me of things that compare in terms of, like, that feeling you have after a character dies. I mean, let's save it. We'll save it to talk about it. But the way it's done in the game is, yeah, definitely worth talking about. Okay.

My other guess for just the next episode. It's just that moment when Jesse at the dance is like, remember early night, you guys have patrol tomorrow. Now, they have patrol all the time, so maybe that's nothing, but it felt like, okay, everyone's got to kind of get out into the snow. Oh, patrol tomorrow,

Time to die. Tears in the rain. Time to die. And like not saying anything to each other. And like what is the last thing Ellie ever says to Joel? What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? I don't need your help. Yeah. I might like never recover from that. This is the last. Like they do make eye contact and a communication of some sort is made. Yeah. You know, she's visibly.

destroyed seeing how... Anyway, we'll talk about that later. Maybe he'll bring the fixed guitar in the morning. He'll play Future Days. He'll go get some cheesy mushroomy toast and everything will be fine. Could that happen? Sure. Say it too. The last toast.

Is this the last of Joel and Ellie? Have we seen their last scene together? Oh my God. Feels like maybe. If that's the case, and perversely as tragic as it would be, I hope it is because there's something there that's really bold that I think is important to preserve. I am hoping then for a shit fuckload ton of flashbacks. Is that an official metric? Unit of measurement. I know I've said before that I'm not a scientist. Okay.

But I do believe that that is an official unit of measurement. Okay. Anything else I want to say? Oh, any further thoughts on the differences between knowing Abby's mission and motivation early versus how it's rolled out in the game?

I don't know. I mean, I guess just, like, giving us that really human connection, especially because Joel's decisions are driven by family. Yeah. Specifically, like, I can't lose somebody I love. Well, if Abby did lose somebody she loves, then what does that mean? And, like, you know, who, like, the fireflies and that, again, the tears in her eyes, like, there's a personal quality to that morning that just feels really palpable there. And, like, um...

As a parallel, well, what am I driven to do if I have lost someone who I really cared about? What were you driven to do to avoid that kind of outcome is interesting. But yeah, I don't know. What about you? Anything else stand out? I mean, more than anything else, knowing that you'll help me kill him slowly, whatever, knowing that all of that.

It's the Caitlin Dever casting more than anything else, which is, you know, to say nothing of the talented actress who voices Abby in the game is not about that. But it's just about like Caitlin Dever is. Yeah. I'm just already programmed to empathize with her. Yeah. From years of exposure. So. Absolutely. We got we got to the little like the handhold moment with Owen and yeah.

Owen and Abby, and I'm curious, like, you know, it's the sense early in the game that they had a romantic history. And then at that point, Owen is with Mel. Got Mel pregnant. Got Mel pregnant and desire to not jeopardize that and protect that is driving some of his decisions. So, like, I'm curious if we have not spent any time with them other than some foot crunches on snow in the present timeline. So we don't know. I'm curious to see if that's if that's all possible.

the same. Yeah, well, what were they doing the last five years, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Yeah. A couple other things before we go. They mentioned Isaac on the Seattle front, so that's the Jeffrey Wright character, so that's exciting. Right, right, right. We're going to Seattle.

Multiple times over. How Tommy as a dad might change the stakes for him in the game. Yeah. So this is something that we were discussing before we started recording this idea that like the game opens with Joel telling Tommy everything about what he did. Yes. And they changed that slightly inside of this episode in that it's like it's Joel talking to Gail and he does not tell her what he does. But he does say that line, I saved her, but he doesn't give the specifics. Yeah.

Tell me what you and Steve were talking about before we started recording about why you feel like Tommy can't know inside of this game version. Yeah, so Steve and I, I think, slightly disagreed on this, and I think it's an interesting... I'll be fascinated, and I'm sure they can make it work either way, but when it didn't happen in the show...

I was like, yeah, of course. Now, maybe it did, and we'll see it in a flashback, and Tommy does, in fact, know. But assuming that he doesn't, and that that's actually a change they've made, it feels to me like it's a change they've made because in the show, as you mentioned earlier, Tommy has a kid. And so, like, when the game opens with that conversation between Joel and Tommy, and they ride toward Jackson through the beautiful opening credits, and they get to the gate, and it opens, and they walk back in, and, like...

Tommy's like, I wouldn't have, I can't say I would have done anything different. Right. That we could still hear Tommy say, because he would do it for his kid. Right. But what does it mean that Joel did it at the expense of his kid? Of Benji. Yeah. Benji's future. Joel doomed a world that Tommy was bringing a kid into. And I don't know that he can forgive and understand that the way the game Tommy could. So, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how it's all going to roll out in the show. Yeah.

I don't know how much it – because I'm only, like, I don't know, a couple hours into my 15 and a half hour watch project. But I don't know how important it is that Tommy knows. Right. When we come back next time, we will know because we will have done all of our homework. Just thinking about, like, the possible – like, if Joel hasn't – if he didn't tell Tommy in show land and if he hasn't told anyone. Yeah.

What would that to not have any release? Yeah. Potentially like to not have told anyone would be boy, that would be a heavy thing to carry. I don't know that you could carry that. I think he would have to tell someone at some point. Right. So then who would that be? Intriguing. I don't think there's any other options. It's either Tommy or nothing. I think. Who else is he talking to? OK, we did it. We did it.

That was a lot to get into. I think future episodes might be a little, a little switcher than that. Promises, promises from House of R. Maybe not all of them, but some of them will be. Some of them definitely will be. Thank you to. Yes. Wow. Quote. Demented. Don Richter. Rest up, my guy. Yeah. Arjuna Rangapal. Also. Also rest up. How sick. Rest up. Joe, we had dinner on.

Not sick as far as I know. Healthy and well as far as we know. And Steven Allman, who just celebrated a birthday. Happy birthday, Steve. Happy birthday, Steve. Is the best. Remember. Yeah. The fungus loves too. That's right. But paying attention to things is how we on House of R show our love. We'll see you soon. Bye.