'Yellowjackets' Episode 8 Deep Dive
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Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson and it is everybody's favorite four-eyed freak mushroom girl. It's Mallory Rubin. Hello, Mallory. That was how I knew that The Last of Us was canon in the Yellow Jackets universe. Some mushrooms humor, tis the season. And I'd also like to add that you can't go wrong with FurnitureFam.net. Um...

Can't go wrong. Can go absolutely wrong with furniturefam.net. And also, there's some apple slander inside of this episode as well. I've targeted directly at our personal palate, I think. I agree. Listen, we're here to talk to you about Yellowjacket Season 3, Episode 8. We are, like, running out of episodes. We're running out of season. We're almost to the end of Season 3 of Yellowjacket. This week's episode is titled, A Normal, Boring Life...

Written by Julia Bicknell, directed by Anya Adams. And so we're going to talk about that. Spoilers up through season three, episode eight of A Normal Boring Life. I'm just going to zoom. We're going to zoom. Mallory's not feeling very well, as we mentioned last week. Sorry. When Van and I recorded at the end of last week,

About Revenge of the Sith, we did mention that Mallory was feeling under the weather. Then Van asked our listeners, hey, where does that idiom come from? And we got a lot of emails from listeners citing a specific book wherein they learned that it is sailing lingo. When you're sick, they don't keep you below deck. They put you on above deck under the weather. So that's where you hang out when you're exiled to the upper decks of the ship when you're coughing your head off and sort of.

I'm sure that went really well for all those sailors. But Mallory is safely out of the weather and is drizzling in Los Angeles. Love the sea breeze. Yeah. So we're going to kind of zip through Yellow Jackets today just to save Mallory's life and voice. And also, I'll just quickly say, Daredevil coverage,

Is this the week we finally do some Daredevil coverage? We hope so. That's our plan. Our plan is to cover the several episodes that we missed to do a sort of comprehensive episode later this week. The Midnight Boys Pew Pew are also doing, of course, Daredevil coverage. There's a new Ring of Earth Recommends up for your enjoyment. And if you haven't listened to that, please do because Ben...

went above and beyond on this month's ringer risk recommends in a very unusual way. And I recommend you listen or watch that. And then also we're almost, it's almost last of us time. That's right. It's coming. It's coming. The mushrooms are coming. So, you know,

That's a lot to keep track of. You can watch us on YouTube. You can watch us on Spotify. You can follow the pod on your podcast listener, listening app of your choice. Follow us on social. Whatever social you feel is right in your spirit to follow these days, we're out there. We're on there. Do all of that. And then you can always email us, hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com if you have questions.

Yellow Jacket's thoughts or feelings, Daredevil thoughts or feelings, anticipatory and or, or Last of Us thoughts or feelings or anything else, or I don't know, fun home remedies for Mallory to try to soothe her aching throat. So that is what is happening here today.

I'm going to quickly just run through what I have this week for the unreliable narrator, hallucinator slash dreamer counter. And you let me know if I'm missing anyone. Okay. We open with a fun dream. And as is often the case with Yellowjacket, it's not entirely clear who's dreaming. Is it?

Shauna in the wilderness who later sees a moth from her dream in her waking hours? Or is it Shauna in the minivan who sort of like jolts herself awake like she was dreaming of Jackie in the supermarket? Or was it a shared dream? We've experienced shared dreams before on this show. Mari, Misty, Van all have dreams of back home, of the sweet, sweet 90s life back home. Yeah.

We get double ties in this episode. So the ties are dreaming of each other, you know, one might say. And then I'm calling it Akilah unhuffed. Love it. Yep. No gas from the caves, just pure nightmare visions of her sweet, sweet animals dead and the crops. This is very Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat of her to dream of.

livestock. You know, they walked a long distance. Who knows? Did they pass over a cave where gaseous fumes were coursing? Had she previously worn that amply threaded loose-yarned poncho into the cave? Oh, pockets of gas. Every time you pull out a handy

thread to leave a trail just a little puff. Who knows? Who can say? Okay. Is your poncho currently storing gas? Let us know at hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. Okay.

Mailbox, et cetera. Molly Rubin. Yeah. Our most faithful swank is Melissa Truther. How does it feel to be right? It's great. I'm happy. When she walked down into the kitchen with the backwards hat, I was just like, you know what?

It feels good. It feels good to see that backwards hat. I'm excited to hit some of the theories and alternate interpretations that still exist, but I like it. I like that Hillary Swank is in fact, it seems, playing adult Mel and that the enthusiasm for the backwards hat has lasted 25 years into the future. I used to be a backwards hat enthusiast in my youth and

And I let the passion lapse and I don't totally know why. And I was considering wearing a backwards hat today. But then as I told you guys before we started recording, I realized 10 minutes before we recorded that...

We've been in person until I got sick. I haven't been home in a while. And that time I got a new desk, none of my stuff was plugged in. And I was like, can I figure out how to make a backwards hat work on top of getting these lights and mic plugged in? Probably not. Let's save it for another pod. Let's do backwards hat. Well, I won't be here next week. Oh yeah, I should say that. I won't be here next week. So Mallory will be yellow jacketing and daredeviling or whatever she decides to do. She might say, hey, Van, let's debate a Star Wars movie at the last minute. Who knows? But I won't be here next week.

I will be out in New York on vacation. So Mallory will be gamely covering for me next week, provided her voice returns in full. And then we'll be back together for the finale. But maybe for the finale, backwards baseball cast for the finale. That sounds like a fun idea to me. I'm in. Yeah. Okay, great. I don't think I have one, but I'll find one. I'm not generally a hat person. The hat was deeply stupid, and I think everyone agrees.

But I felt very happy for you that you got that immediate visual confirmation that that was indeed Melissa. That was my version of, you know, when Mando sees Grogu and he's like, it's the shirt. Yeah, the shirt. When she took the hat off, I was like, thank you, God. Okay, great. Okay, so to the sort of question of...

Should Mallory be rewarded for being a faithful truther all season? Yes. Is there a popular, and I think...

flimsy theory on the internet right now that this is one big Shauna hallucination that Shauna herself may have some pockets of gas in her flannel and has hallucinated. You know, it's a lot of vending machine intake at the Jolly Hitcher who hasn't had a pocket of gas inside their flannel after that. We've been there. We've all been there. We had a bunch of emails about this. This like is Melissa a figment of Shauna's imagination theory and that would suggest yes, but

But everything else suggests no to me. And I will say this. We don't usually talk about, like, trailers or anything like that. But I just want to say there has been... There was one promotional image of Hilary Swank this season. And it was her out on the road. So if...

Melissa is indeed a figment of Shauna's imagination. She's going to be traveling at some point. And I feel like figments don't usually last. You know, like Lottie's imaginary therapist never left the imaginary therapy office. Do you know what I mean? It's just sort of like, I feel like figments don't usually travel. But we'll see. Perhaps this figment will. We'll see. I thought that the Apple Wars family conversation seemed...

to confirm that there was, in fact, another person there. But maybe all of them were figments of Shauna's imagination. Well, maybe, I mean, maybe it's just a lady. And like, yes, there were multiple people there, but maybe this lady really is just Kelly. And then like the other yellow jackets show up and Kelly's like, I don't know who this woman is in my kitchen with haunting knife harassing me. She's telling me to eat a part of my arm. My name is simply Kelly and I just like backwards baseball hats. You can't pin anything else on me.

All right. We're going to come back, obviously, to to Shauna and Melissa, who's been like the bulk of the present day plot line is the two of them in the kitchen, in the Virginia kitchen. So we'll get back to that.

Beautiful kitchen. Beautiful home. Oh, lovely. I mean, a boring, normal, happy life. Honestly, looks great. Cool. Minus the gym membership, though. I did like young Mel being like a gym membership that I won't use. And this Mel is definitely using that gym. Clearly using it. But my version of it would be the not using it part, though I would never have it in the first place.

That's what they're always counting on. They'll get the gym membership and then you won't go. Yeah, well, they can't get to me because I'm never fucking signing up in the first place. All right. Let's do the breakdown. Oh, on the like, you know how I've been here in Los Angeles forever and I like I'm trapped here for the rest of my life now. To me, it feels like but a moment.

I got an email from my gym. A precious moment. Speaking of gym memberships, I got an email from my gym being like, hey, we noticed you're using the Glendale gym. Do you live there now? Do you want to transfer your membership over to Glendale, California? And I was like, I'll be back, Barry. I'll be back for you. Okay. Wow. You just need to be near the Americana at Brand Memes account. Get Instagram. Okay. Get Instagram. Once you've spent enough time down here, you'll know what I mean. Okay.

All right. Past. We're going to break down the past. Yes. Anything you want to say about Misty doing her best Velma from Scooby-Doo impression and getting her glasses, her slightly cracked glasses back? So I don't have glasses, as you know, because I haven't been to the eye doctor.

Or any doctor. In a decade and a half. But I did think that, boy, it seemed like that would be a real headache-inducing experience to have one side of your glasses cracked and fractured like that. Misty was happy to discover them. Seemed unpleasant. What I was thinking of, I love the Velma call-out. It's like, okay, we didn't go quite...

quite to the time enough at last Twilight Zone place with Misty, right? Where like Misty has cultivated this, obviously she's gone through it. It hasn't been perfect, but cultivated this experience of like incorporation into the group, a role. They need her. They rely on her. They turned her and then boom, right? When you think you could just spend all your time reading books, your glasses break, spoiler. Didn't quite go there. So I was glad that she was able to discover them and I hope that her headaches are manageable. Few and far between. Yeah.

I feel like... I'm trying to think of what my life would be like. But my prescription isn't nearly as strong as Misty's is. So, like, her seems quite strong. So, yeah. Maybe this explains some later unhinged behavior from her because...

Yeah, I think if I had. Yeah, anyway. OK. OK. Present day Misty crushing it as always. So. Oh, the best. Great. Person on the show continually. When is my Walter and Misty spinoff coming? OK, so Cody, Travis and Akilah. Yes. Are hiking to a pickup point. And Travis is like, this doesn't feel right. She's not gonna be the last person to say that this episode. Yeah. And Travis is like, babe.

You're not special. You've been huffing gas. I don't have vision. I was drinking mushroom tea. You were huffing cave gas. None of this is real. Let's go the fuck home. And Akilah's like, I don't know about that. I like being special and leaves a little thread of her poncho, her gas trapped poncho on the tree for Missy to find.

What do you make? Travis says his visions don't mean anything. He says it's just mushroom tea. And there's certainly an interpretation where that could be true. The mushroom tree, the screaming that he heard was just the frog sex, like all this sort of stuff like that. But what do you make about the drawing that he made during Ben's trial on the bark of, you know, one of his bark scrolls and, um,

And it's a body and then three people sort of walking into frame. Yep. And a lot of people think that's like it's Ben. Because when we first saw it, I was like, what the hell is this? Ben and then the froggers. Yep. Or the two frog scientists and Cody sort of walking into the camp. And then that's what he was sort of predicting with his drawing there. Do you buy that? Do you think it's all still living in a fuzzy place of plausible deniability? What do you think? Yeah.

Yeah, I think plausible deniability still. I really like that, you know, we started to talk about this last episode, the shift back into, oh, we're hitting the there's always another explanation drum very heavily. Just a week after we had had our like, is this the most supernatural thing that has ever happened?

ever like happened on the show. Yeah. So I like how many, obviously this is part of like the divide inside of the camp, but I like how many characters in both timelines, because obviously it's, it's not quite as a apples to apples of a supernatural thing, but it's very of a piece thematically with what's happening around Shauna in the present day timeline where Mel away from Shauna, but Jeff and Callie are like, isn't it Misty previously? Isn't it possible that

There's just another explanation for all of this. So they've really been hammering that, frankly, in a way that makes me like more skeptical of it because it's so central. But I like, actually, I really like and I'm glad that we've reentered this period of like, this is an

an active debate. It can be a debate inside of each person in the universe, and it can be a debate inside of each person watching it. And maybe we will get a definitive answer one day, and maybe we don't. I think in terms of that drawing, like even the hearing the sound, I'm kind of like, well, did the, does being, does like imbibing mushroom tea heighten your hearing? Otherwise you still heard that sooner and louder than everybody else. And the drawing is a great call. So it does still feel like something is, um,

But maybe there's another explanation for how. I thought it was interesting that like this was where in this same stretch, Akilah said like, we all know Ben was supposed to be our way home. And so Akilah has not been listening to Yellow Jacket's podcast where we're all like, yeah, but he still is the...

the bridge because he brought... And so Travis's bark drawing really almost now when you look at it and everybody's flat, it is kind of very bridge-like and reminiscent of the way even that Akilah saw Ben sprawled and stretched out in her cave gas vision. So I think it's all still in the brew here of possibility. But I liked hearing Travis voice it. And in particular, even though we have seen...

This season and certainly last season, you know, Lottie hand on chest, Travis gets a boner. What a memorable scene that was. Travis has absolutely dabbled with belief, true belief in moments of need.

And has responded. That will be key to adult Travis. Exactly. At the end of his life. Yeah. And so we know he will get back to that place. But this was hearing Travis say, like, I made it up. This is all made up. It's not real. It felt like the first time in a while where we had the ability, even though when Nat said it, it was not capturing the full truth, to understand how adult Nat could have said, like...

He never believed in this shit, like, that he would have worked himself back to a grounded, there's another explanation, phase at some point. So I thought that was all interesting. Were you missing, as I was inside of this episode, a moment where, like, I just am still very thirsty for Nat and Travis' connection. And so, like...

I wish there had been more made of not being like, you were going to go back without me, that sort of thing. Do you know? Definitely. Because I understand pulling them apart, especially since both of those characters are not alive in the modern story time and all that sort of stuff like that. But I'm going to need to see their reconnection if they spend the rest of their life

sporadically seeking comfort in each other and in their own addictions and stuff like that. Absolutely. And the way Nat responded to Travis's death, which is our introduction to Nat, it's our formative experience with Nat. The place that they are in together right now in the past, obviously they've gone through some meaningful, memorable stuff together, but I kind of wouldn't

I totally feel like it connected to that. So we do need to see a rekindling, I think. I felt like we were returning there with his help with Coach Ben's death and stuff like that. So I felt like we were on the path to that. And I would just like to see that continue to ramp up. Okay.

Hannah is being interrogated by the girls and we get this great shot of all the girls gathered around sort of the POV of the camera being Hannah and Van asking quite crucially if Mulder and Scully get together. Love that for Van. Incredible moment. Love that for all of us. What would be your first question? Like if you put yourself in this present day time. Yeah. Too hard to go back to the mid-90s. Yeah. Oh, now. Like if you had been a year and a half ago, you know, a year plus ago, a year ago, you were lost in the wilderness. Yeah.

We never stopped looking, just FYI. Unlike the families of the Yellow Jackets, we kept looking. What's the first question you ask somebody when they make their way into your camp? What do you need to know from the last year? Well, let's not get real about it. Because the real question has to do with our national politics. And I'm not going to ask that question. I'm going to say...

Was Severn season two good? Let's just say that. Or like, did Severn stick the landing or something like that? Yeah. How about you, mom? Did the O's win the World Series? I'd be like, did Gunnar win MVP and did the O's win the World Series? Did Lamar win his third MVP and did the Ravens win the Super Bowl? I honestly might ask. This would feel like a wasted question. I apologize to George, but I would be inclined to ask. Any chance George finished wins? Yeah.

Any chance? I just talked to someone who has some inside track and has been a longtime true believer. Yeah. And I was like, do you think George is going to finish Wins? And for the first time, this person was like, no. And I was like, wow. Okay, here we are. Well, that's upsetting. Anyway, that means that we all get to make up what Wins of Winter was together in our collective brains. Okay. Okay.

Hannah starts to tell him about the frogs and Shauna is deeply uninterested in frog orgies at a crucial moment, cutting off before Hannah can say, it sounds like this primal screaming that you've attributed to the wilderness. Yes. Um, and it's pretty clear the yellow jacket story hasn't lingered all that long in the public consciousness, the way that like, you know, they might've hoped that it would, there are no baby Jessica, uh, as, as it were. And, uh,

Shauna is outraged yeah but also on the one hand Shauna's mad must be a Tuesday like that's fine but like also I think it helps form her narrative of like I'm important out here and I won't be important back home you know interesting yeah I that's I like that I I

Find this a little bit difficult to believe, like, that this would not have been one of the biggest stories in the world for quite a long time. Especially in the 90s when, like, the news cycle was, like, yeah, lasted longer. Yeah. And I knew, like...

every tabloid story that existed in the mid-90s? Their families are on the cover of every magazine for five years after this. So, I mean, obviously they did have enough, you know, notoriety and name recognition for Hannah to be like, oh,

Oh, right. Yeah. After the quick, like, okay, so we're from New Jersey. We're a soccer team. We're playing. Oh, yeah, you guys. But I don't think, I just like don't buy, I guess, that it would have faded that quickly. But Hannah also is focused on other things, you know, like Hannah and Edwin had a, yeah, a vibrant life focused on secretions and mating calls. So like-

Who knows how much time she was spending looking at the magazine racks. Exactly. Totally normal. All right. I love this moment when Hannah asks if Sean is the captain of the team, right? First of all, Melissa scoffs. Wonderful. But then of course, Nat is like, no, the captain's dead. Actually, Jackie's dead. That's who was the captain of the team.

And Lottie is like catatonic through all of this conversation. And Shauna tells Ty to watch her as they run off with Misty to find Cody and Travis and Akilah. Anything you want to say about how Hannah handles herself here in this very scary situation? Lottie's initial reaction? Or do you just want to get to Akilah's really incredible improv work with The Rock in her shoe? We could get to The Rock in the shoe. My only note for Lottie is, you know, she does this later.

I would personally clean the blood off my face sooner. It's just, for me, I would clean the brain blood off my face sooner in terms of thinking of managing the group dynamic. If you want someone to take you seriously, maybe don't be smeared in the blood of the innocent frog scientist that you just murdered. File it away for next time. Just a note, a simple note. Okay.

So, Akilah does this shit with her shoes to solve for time, to get some time. The girls show up. I thought this dynamic was so interesting because, like, after Ben dies, Travis is, like, the only dude in the camp. And even though, like, him being the only dude in camp has been less of a conversation topic than I might have thought. Mm-hmm.

Both like in terms of his sexual sexual assignations. Maybe he's just so traumatized by all of the encounters that he's had so far. But also just like in terms of dynamics, like he is just like fully ensconced himself in like, I'm just going to drink mushroom tea and be in this hammock if you need me and don't worry about it and I will help or whatever. But like his...

His gender hasn't really sort of presented itself. But there was a moment where it's like Cody's here and Travis is here and they're surrounded by all these girls. And it's like, what are we? And Travis has a weapon. And it's like, what are we going to do?

And then Nat says, let's go back. And Travis is like, oh, I'm with the girl. Let's go back. You know? And that felt somewhat intentional to me. I don't know that I can fully parse to you what I think that means. But I think, you know, the idea that Cody...

Because it could have been two, you know, it could be two women in the woods or like that. But there's something about Joel McHale's, like, machismo military energy that he's bringing into this dynamic. So, like, when the teenage girls later are like, this doesn't feel right. We don't want to follow this guy into the woods. I think that's an element of it, even though they haven't voiced that specifically. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. With unexplained emotions.

Scars that they will presumably also hear at some point are from a Sasquatch. Yeah, I'm curious to see... You know you never fucked a bear. You never fucked a bear. Great stuff. It's been too long since that's come up. Yeah, I'm interested too, like, because obviously Travis... I thought the decision Travis made...

on delay, but ultimately fairly quickly to like align back with the group, um, was one of self-preservation, but also loyalty. And like, uh, then, you know, as we'll get to the, the cover that he and Akilah provide for each other, like that loyalty to Akilah feels like something that, um,

is really palpable, like this shared experience that the two of them have had and obviously also with Lottie. And then I really agree with what you said earlier about Travis and Nat and hoping that, especially now that we have this like stay-go faction split, you know, Travis, maybe the way he went about it was we have some notes and the group would have some notes certainly, but like Travis and Nat,

They're very clear-eyed. Like, rescue has come. It's simple. Let's go. So they're aligned. And then there's this potential Cody-Travis tie that you're, I think, really smartly observing. So...

who is Travis like most drawn to moving forward? I just feel in general, obviously mostly with Nat and missing that relationship, but in general that Travis has been like very absent from the season in a way I have not loved. Like he's such an interesting character to me. He's here, but he's just passive. Yeah. I'm hoping that he's about to be more present in the last couple episodes. He's taking mushroom tea. He's going into the caves of the Keela. Like he's here, but

You know, not in a way that I feel like I understand him any more than I understand Jen, who is also just here, you know? Yeah, Jen totally just here. Even, like, when Nat went to basically, like, say goodbye, you know, to Coach, and there was that, like, interesting moment. But he wasn't with her in the fuselage. Why was Travis not with her? Yeah, I know. Why was Travis not with her in the fuselage? They have fond memories of that spot. Yeah, exactly. And I'm talking, of course, about the albinos. Okay, so...

Shauna and Nat are butting heads over whether they should leave with Cody and Hannah. Missy worries about Cody. This is when we're talking about like this is an early version of the end of episode argument of like we should say we should go. What will the consequences be? Can we trust them? Can we keep them alive? But I like the way that Nat is just sort of like invigorated by this argument.

You know, she had her authority taken from her and she was just sort of like, OK, she sort of rolled over on it. But given what's happening here and now, she's just sort of like she's giving orders and she's saying what they should do. And she's sort of naturally back into this leadership position, which is just so interesting because I did not think before of Nat as a natural leader before.

She took it because it was given to her and she did a pretty good job with it. But like thinking back to like Ben's trial when she was the judge and she seemed almost like checked out. So I just don't think of her as someone who like I don't want it like wants the authority needs the authority but is like naturally good at it. And Shauna isn't. Shauna has to like

aggressively assert her authority and not... And Jackie, both, are people with just sort of like natural authority that people want to follow, you know? Yes, absolutely. And I think...

The Jackie call out is so interesting because I think Jackie and Nat, it's so radically distinct, especially through the lens of high school life. We're like, Jackie was the cool girl. Jackie was the popular one. Jackie was the one who was trying to kind of like live very loudly in front of people's eyes, like in a way that demanded notice. And that was really like...

even though she was a part of the Yellow Jackets team. And that was, of course, part of what made that team dynamic so interesting to think of through the lens of her character, very much an outsider, right? And had this like... Yeah. But she's actually cool. Like Jackie is popular. Totally. And Nat is like actually cool. That's the most high school thing of all, right? That like Nat is this like actually interesting person with like things to say and ideas and a perspective that like...

demands attention and that the wilderness would be a place where other people started to really recognize that and gravitate toward it. And I've loved that. And so when the moment of anointing that initially came to be, the fact that there has been this now return where she is more ready to embrace a position that maybe she didn't

believe or no was right for her initially and she said no like I I can be the one to lead us and you know that in part what happened with Ben like which we talked about at the time she knew like she knew what she was risking and knew what she was compromising and was willing to do it because she was that sure she was right now sometimes of course that level of like uh uh certainty is

That the decision that you make is the right one, no matter the consequences, can be quite dangerous. That's a classic Shauna move to be honest with you. Totally. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's like a little Captain America Civil War where like, you know, the safest hands are still our own. Like, who are you willing to trust with that kind of power? And it's like, Shauna has not actually earned that trust and will behave recklessly if given the chance. Is that true for you?

go through the roster of all the remaining characters, like you understand why people would want to follow Nat and why she would want to lead. I just, I agree. I really agree with what you've said multiple times this season. Like I am missing her. We were so confounded and sad in the end of season two, but I'm just missing that element so much in the present day. Like, and seeing that in the past just makes you long for it in the present even more. It's a real bummer, real bummer. Okay. Yeah.

We've come now to a great little montage with a great needle drop. All right. By super grass starts playing, um, this, I identify most as being from the clueless soundtrack. Um, though it, it, you know, has been used in many things, but it is used quite memorably in clueless during the like little tie and photo session, uh, sequence. But Mari is theoretically supervising Kone and Hannah burying Edwin in, in a pit. Um,

But she's actually thinking about drinking Mallory's favorite Bev, a blue, icy, slurpy, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

Great stuff. Molly Rubin, have you heard the good word about the pomegranate theory? I love a pomegranate theory. Always. Love some Persephone talk. Let's do it. Let's go to Greek mythology corner. So obviously this show loves to interact with Greek mythology in the Hades and Persephone myth, which if you were dialed into Severance coverage was something we talked a lot about when we talked about Severance. But in that myth, Persephone, who goes to the underworld and

And then her mother negotiates a way out of the underworld for Persephone before she goes. He's like, hey, you want you look peckish. Yeah. Want some want some pomegranate? Want to eat a want to eat a seed or two or three? She does. She eats some seeds.

And the rule is you don't eat food in the underworld because you eat food in the underworld. You have to stay in the underworld. And so Persephone has to split custody between her mom and her husband between above ground and below. Okay. So don't eat food in the underworld. So there is this pomegranate theory going around for Yellowjackets about the characters who eat or drink something in a dream space. So, for example...

Jackie drinks the cocoa inside the dream that she and Shauna seem to both be having. And then Jackie dies. Yep. The cocoa will return inside of this episode. Lottie has that sort of hypothermia dream of the mall. And Laura Lee stops her from eating the Chinese food. Yeah. And is basically like,

It's not your time. I'm wondering, I didn't clock it personally at the time. You might have mentioned it. I know you mentioned that mall sequence recently, but like the fact that Chinese food is so closely associated with the end of Lottie's life and the Chinese, it was Chinese food, like takeout Chinese food containers in that mall sequence. And again, poorly reviewed, no less. Yeah, but like she ate the Chinese food and then she died. Okay. Yeah. So Lottie doesn't eat the Chinese food in that dream sequence and she lives. Yeah.

This season, we have seen Akilah eat a bunch of berries inside of a dream sequence. And we just watched Mari slurp down a blue Slurpee or Icy. So are you putting, is Vegas taking any odds on the survival of Mari and Akilah inside of the season, inside of the series? What do you think?

I really like this theory. It does feel like either actually right or at least something that they're playing with and they kind of want to invite as speculation. Listen, we're on the record. Possibly the greatest turnaround in the history of House of R. Mari. Maybe of podcasting and of media. Yeah.

If Mari dies this season, I don't know what we'll do. We'll be inconsolable. And I will just be so impressed. Like, if they kill Mari and I am devastated, that is, I mean, they whiffed a bunch of stuff this season. They whiffed so many things this season, but rehabbing Mari to just, to then, like, kill her.

in a pit or otherwise, like I will be deeply impressed with them pulling that off and us being like, no, Mari. You can't kill Mari. Why wasn't it Shauna? Okay. I just, yeah, I like this theory a lot. And I loved this stretch with the slurpy into the toilet. Misty on the toilet. You know, you talk about associations. We always associate Misty with a good shit after she, you know, gently hummed and sang to Ben so that he could, uh,

He could take a shit against the tree back in season one, fond memory. That was really wonderful and hysterical to see the grabbing of the toilet paper, rubbing it on her face. Loved it. Very funny. You didn't want to talk about Crystal? Crystal and Shit Ridge? Crystal and Shit Ridge, you know. We remember her still, even though nobody but Misty does. Yeah.

And then Van imagines a big cushy bed and it really distressed me. You're someone who loves to make a difference between indoor and outdoor clothing, inside outside clothing. I'm not the same. You and I are not the same. But dirty clothes and dirty shoes on an all white bedding. Horrible. I hate to see it. Let me tell you, actually, there was another moment in this episode where bed hygiene was actually more top of mind for me.

Because ultimately we understand. Oh, Jeff. Yes. We understand that Van is fantasizing, but Jeff is on a real fucking bed. A disgusting hotel one.

And so I had my, I had two reactions, both very strong. Get your shoes and your outside clothes off the bed, you savage. And also get your body off of the hotel outer linens. Are you insane? It's the jolly itcher. Get your face out of that pillow, Jeff. I know you have to like sleep with your face on a pillow theoretically, but just like the way his face is all the way in that pillow, I was like. Outer comforter, Jeff. I mean, we might want to, we might want to.

want to reconsider if the arm welts are just from anxiety after all. I don't know. Oh, yeah. Bed bugs. Great stuff. Love to see it. I believe you can wear clothing you've worn outside whilst on your bed, but not your shoes and not if it's like if those clothes are dirty. OK. Yes. So Ty and Van have this conversation that informs

Ty's later stance of, I don't want to go back home. Which is Ty is rightly pointing out, hey man, it's still the mid-90s in America. Yep. And we are teenage girls. And do you think we can just come back and be teenage girls in love in America in the 90s? And a couple things at play here. The Yellowjacket subreddit, always iconic, pointed out that

Ellen's very, very, you know, uh, groundbreaking time magazine cover of like, Hey, I'm Ellen. I'm gay. Yeah. Uh, came out in 97. So like right around now. So like right around now, that doesn't mean that everything was okay for, uh, you know, lesbian teen girls in, in New Jersey, um, or anywhere. So, right. So ties is, uh,

is uh not without merit in her argument here i think what's what is existent in the side of this conversation she's having with van is also seeds of the things that van raised obliquely about why they broke up in the first place this idea that like ty yeah felt like she needed to accomplish all the things that she needed to accomplish could not be with a woman

And then wound up with Simone anyway. But like, you know, it was like, hey, I have these ambitions. I can't be gay and black and America and achieve these things. And so the seeds of that are planted here in some of the things that Ty says. Our futures would be fucked, right? Right. Et cetera, et cetera. Yeah.

And then we get the eyeless man over Ty's shoulder, which is supposed to indicate to us that the other one is here. The other one's driving the bus now, right? Yeah. And to sort of reflect that with the other one appearance at the end of the episode, who's saying...

Basically, you can't protect. You can't do what it needs. You never believed. You can't protect her. Only I can protect her. This idea that the other one comes out when it's in protection of Van and Ty or Van is interesting to me. But I gotta say, I think it was a mistake to reveal the Eyeless Man as a mascot of an ice cream shop or whatever that is. Because I...

I really do love the way in which this season has really skated the line between plausible deniability of the supernatural. I really do like that. I think there's a way that Eyeless Man could have showed up like in a horror movie or something that was like, oh, this was part of something that Ty saw a lot growing up.

You know? And so it's still like an image from pop culture or something like that. But making it this weird little mascot really neutered the impact of that person to me when he popped up over her shoulder. What did you think? Interesting. So as ever, I was horrified.

Looked waxier than ever. More like a Halloween pullover than ever before. Yeah. Distressing. Also just paired with obviously a deeply alarming leer from Ty from the other one. Yeah. So I have a couple things in response. I think on the no eyes front,

I, I, I'm, I'm compelled by your, your argument. I think for me, it goes the other way because I,

there's something about the idea, like if it was a horror movie, you would expect to be scared. But there's something about fear lurking in a place that should be safe. Yeah. And a place that should be like childlike and cotton candy and stuff like that. On the one hand, yes. And that's very like, I don't know, like Twin Peaks-y. And like, on the one hand, I agree with that. Like what's the danger underneath the Americana? Yeah. But in that case, I would need it to be like a freaking like

pink unicorn or something. You know, like, I think it should be something that then is infused with that fear. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the fact that, like, you would stumble upon... Like, I'm thinking even from my childhood. Now, this is an example from a horror movie, so this is, in that sense, a bad example, but I didn't sit down... Like...

I did not seek out a horror movie, but saw it at a friend's house. His older brother was playing... It was put on child's play. And then, like, from that point on, I was so scared of Chucky that, like, anything could trigger that fear. Like, a doll that looked like him...

If I was in Blockbuster, like, my mom would have to, like, shield the covers of those movies as we walked past. So, like, there's something about kind of stumbling upon something scary in a moment where you're not expecting it, and then that becomes the thing. Because obviously we saw that, you know, the way Ty saw No Eyes, like, at her grandmother's death. It's not like it only...

manifested in the wilderness, this idea that this would become this kind of specter of doom because it scared you so much that it got its claws or eye lids in you in the first place. And then that would be the thing that became, in another sense, a mascot, a mascot of doom and darkness. I think it's interesting. If she saw it, but the way it's being used here is a signal to us

that rut row the other one is here right because like it's over her shoulder tie is even looking at him so it's not like she sees him like when she saw him in the alleyway with van earlier this season it means something to tie because she's like oh shit yeah he's here what does that mean blah blah but that this time it was for us i don't know i just think that they've been like

weirdly inconsistent with, with, you know, the internal logic of, of what this, this person represents. No, that's, that's certainly different. Us, uh, us being the ones to, to, to kind of have the jump scare versus, uh, uh, Ty having that experience. I think on the, on the Van-Ty exchange, um, you know, and, and Van replying by saying like, because getting rescued and going home outweighs all of it. Um,

You know, obviously, like, the end, the group that declares that they're going to stay, Lottie, Ty, Shauna, as we'll get to later, like, they kind of all have their own reason. And there are distinctions across the group, certainly. But I think, like, with Ty and Lottie, this idea that, like, you actually could be a truer version of yourself out here is so...

and interesting to think about. And obviously, as we talked about a lot last week and will continue to and have many times before, so John Locke... I mean, the John Locke Lottie stuff in this episode was just unbelievable, but... It's a lost reference. It's a lost... Folks, it's a... Stop us if you've heard it before. It's a lost reference. But this idea that not only if you go back...

Will you not get to be the fullest, truest, most open version of yourself that you've gotten to be out here when you started over, not in the way you would have chosen, but in the way that you had to, but that you'll actually be sucked back in to the version you were before? Mm-hmm.

And for many people, there would be things of longing and comfort and desire. But then for everybody, presumably, and maybe it's just a matter of the balancing of the scales, right? It's like for some of the people out there, the idea that actually the thing that you would be losing and going back would outweigh the things you gained again. Yeah.

I've never been lost in the wilderness, but actually does feel kind of like true to me. And I like that there's, I also like that it's more than just Lottie. Like, I think the fact that we have multiple characters who have a version of this feels really important.

I think what's to hop ahead to that section, I think what's most important, most key to me about what Lottie says in that speech, she's talking about unwellness and all that stuff like that, but like the me that I made, right? And so then it becomes not just everything you just really beautifully and correctly pointed out, but also this idea, especially being like a young woman in America, let's say, and who you are,

You're Jackie, you're the cool one, the popular one, you're not, you're the outcast, like whatever it is, whatever breakfast club sort of designation you want to give someone. These are things that society paints you as, that the patriarchy paints you as, this identity that's been created for you.

because of X, Y, Z. And out here in the wilderness, I mean, for better or for worse, and often for worse, because I don't know if you remember, but they're eating people. But like for better. Not great. These young women have control for the first time in their lives. They have control over their own identity out here, right? Yes. I'm Shauna. I don't have to be in Jackie's shadow, right? Exactly. I don't have to do this, that, or the other thing. And so like, I'm Lottie. I don't need to be the one who's like,

mentally unwell and treated with kid gloves and all. And not only that, with Lottie especially, the thing that everyone said that was wrong and unwell about me is the source of my power and importance out here. Exactly. So yeah. So all of that is very striking to me and very interesting. And to make it

inside of this episode in a way that I hadn't really grokked before for Ty about her sexuality and this idea of like back home I'm in the closet and out here I get to love who I want to love and that is a very strong pull for me Tyessa Turner okay let's talk about Melissa boring boring Melissa I mean I like Melissa but um you know Shauna thinks she's boring um so a couple things

She's yammering about her ordinary life that she wants back home. She talks about the gym membership that she'll never use, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And then this is where Shauna sees it's a death's head hawk moth over Melissa's head. The hawk moth showed up in the supermarket dream, which we'll talk about in this present day timeline thing. But a couple of things about this specific moth that is chosen here. What is the meaning of the moths? Blah, blah, blah.

Moths can represent death and decay, especially a death's head hawk moth, right? But also metamorphosis and change. It's a deathier version of like Jackie's butterfly insignia that we've sort of seen again and again. And then in Silence of the Lambs, because of course we love to deal with 90s pop culture on this show. If you've never seen Silence of the Lambs, it's...

One of the best movies ever made. Spoilers for Silence of the Lambs. Here they come. The killer Buffalo Bill cultivates these hawk moths and puts the pupa of the hawk moth down the throats of his victims. And his...

whole pursuit once again spoilers for Sons of the Lamb but Buffalo Bill's whole pursuit is he's kidnapping women starving them using then using their skin to make himself a skin suit so that he a biologically born male can be female that's his whole idea of metamorphosis and transformation that is his endeavor and so the Hawk Moth has a strong pop culture representation it's on the

iconic Silence of the Lambs poster over Clarice's mouth, all this sort of stuff like that. So this is here signifying death, but also...

What exactly what we were talking about, the desire to be in the woods and create your own identity that you feel like is more accurately reflects the inner you than the identity that's been sort of put upon you by society. Two more things that I want to pass it over to you for all your moth thoughts, et cetera, et cetera.

Shauna trying to sweetly placate Melissa was very Melanie Linsky coded to me. Yeah. Very sort of like, I was concerned about, I don't think we've seen this flavor of Shauna from Sophie and Elise before. So I think, I think,

Everyone's doing a really good job of sort of getting closer and closer because there's some Sophie Thatcher stuff that was like classic Juliette Lewis a little bit later. So I think everyone's doing a really good job of sort of getting closer and closer to each other. And then Shauna talks. She said, the reason I took off when you got, babe, when you got the bolts to your chest. Yeah.

and I knew you'd be fine. And I really wanted to punish the guy who shot you. I still might kill him for you. And I'm the fastest on the team. Yeah, that was great. So, babe, of course I took off. So a couple things. Number one, that's very, like,

I really like that inside of the same episode where Hannah asks, are you the captain of the team? This idea. And inside of the same episode where the girls, when they're packing to leave, are putting on their hoodies and their letterman jackets, they're putting back on their yellow jackets, regalia, the uniform, the costume of the team. They're putting – there's this great – I'm so sorry I don't have the user's handle in front of me, but –

But someone sent us this great TikTok that someone made sort of detailing the way in which they're all wearing the same clothes that they were wearing when they crashed. Not all of them, but the majority, the main characters are.

Barring a recast or two. And a lot of those, the things that they're wearing are their jackets. Misty's wearing her equipment manager jacket. Van has her hoodie back on. Mari has her hoodie back on. All this sort of stuff is happening. We're re-yellow jacketing. And so this idea of your team identity, are you the captain on your team? Are you the fastest on the team? All of that is sort of seeping back into the reality of their life here. Yeah.

But it's also very apex predator of Shauna to be like, I'm the fastest. So, which takes us back to the opening sort of capture the flag game that they were playing. Okay. What do you want to say about this Melissa and Shauna interaction? So, in terms of the I'm the fastest part, it makes me think back to like that pilot episode

between Jackie and the coach where he's sort of like, do you know why I made you the captain? Right? And like actually then lists all the attributes and claims that other people have over her in terms of being more skilled and more capable on the field. And like the reason that Jackie was in that position from his perspective was because she was like a uniter.

She could bring this bickering team, often at odds, driven by their own agendas, to some sort of place of potentially fleeting but cohesion.

That was not the way he saw Shauna. She couldn't, but that was not the way he saw Shauna, right? So it's like one more moment where like the thing that Shauna is claiming and should be proud of and is this like dominant trait. It was also weirdly a way to remember that she doesn't have the thing that would equip her to do the thing she's trying to do now, which is like to lead. I really agree on the Melanie Linsky performance front. Like,

This was, I mean, even just a couple episodes ago, like it made me think of the, you know, manipulating Jeff into going down to get the snacks because she's got, there's a motive and an agenda, but like just an iota of like, maybe I actually care, but also I have a game I'm running. Very reminiscent of many adult Shauna moments. So I quite, I quite liked that part of it. Yeah.

On the moth front, love the Silence of the Lambs comps. Obviously a very, you know, notable pit in that film as well. Put the lotion in the basket. If Mari has to go into the pit, at least send her some lotion in a basket down there. Great stuff. The, you know, the idea in Silence of the Lambs of like,

coveting? You know, what do you covet? And thinking about that for each of these characters at this moment in time, what are they seeking? What do they desire? Why? How has that driven them? So interesting. What are you making of the timeline mixing on the moth front with, so it's one, it's the solo moth above Mel here. And then in the supermarket dream,

There's a fucking army, right? Just a barrage of moths, like to the point where they start cracking the glass and the fluorescent light casing. They're drawn to the light, should know better, don't you think, is what Dream Jackie says about it? Yeah. Is now the moment where I try to tell you what the fuck those moths mean in the dream? Let's do it. I don't know. I don't know. Like, is it just like they're drawn to the light, right?

The only person we see really, like, upon rewatch, the person we see really drawn to the light in this episode is Misty after she gets her glasses. And then there's just sort of, like, a sunrise to, you know, the right of her. And she goes and, like, follows it off screen. Though even Misty's like, what are we going to do with these people? They might tell on us. But, like, drawn to the light, drawn to the light of rescue. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's the wrong thing to do. Mm-hmm.

But was it? Because they don't get... We have another winter to go. This is not happening. They're not getting rescued right now. So, like, it was a mistake. Like, they didn't get rescued. So I'm having trouble sort of mapping it one-to-one on anything. What's your theory? What's your dream interpretation corner with Mallory Rubin? I don't know. I don't know either. I'm always...

The stuff that you already ran through about, like, rebirth and identity, that felt much clearer to me as, like, why this... The symbol of the moth was an interesting one to present in the story. And for Shauna specifically. But, like, in terms of the...

They're drawn to the light, should have known better, don't you think, Jackie line to Shauna, which is, again, unless we end up learning at some point that all of these Jackie, that's actually a ghost or something. It's all, our interpretation remains that this is like Shauna speaking to herself. You know, and so there's like, when Shauna snaps awake in the van in the present day, it felt to me like,

what the episode was asking us to think about was if the first time Shauna saw that moth was above young Mel's head in that moment on the brink of seeking rescue and thinking they were going to make this six-day trek. I'm also not sure that Cody's rescue point, pickup point is legit. And I'm sure we're all thinking that. Absolutely. It's like six days where I could potentially murder you and then go about my business. Yeah. Um, Shauna,

Shauna doesn't know yet that she's going to find Mel in that lovely home in Richmond, Virginia. But what does it mean that that's the moment that this image like recurs to her if it is adult Shauna having that dream? Anytime Yellow Jackets, whether it's across people potentially or across timelines or, you know, we talked about this a lot with like Ben's cabin alternate life, Paul hallucinations last year, almost like alternate realities where the show is

moving us across planes. Those are always interesting moments and like why the show chooses to do that in a certain moment always feels like it's meant to tell us something. Shauna's not the light, that's for sure. So... Is the it the light? Is the idea of rescue the light? Is home the light?

I don't have a clear answer for you. The moth over Melissa's head, because I do think that Shauna in the present day in the minivan is having this dream. Yes. But I also am willing to consider that it's a dream that Shauna had in the wilderness as well. And so when she sees the moth over Melissa's head, that it's like what you're talking about, a gym membership you won't bother using, that equates to me scanning...

pieces of meat, body parts or otherwise, you know, being in a supermarket. Thrilled to see the ear there. Just great that Jackie's ear. Were you looking at that saying I simply would not eat any of that? For me. What an episode for arm Pringles though. They're back. That's not a Pringle. Come on. I know you really needed the frozen body to skip the Pringle shard. This was just the...

That's like a Fritos scoop. You know what I mean? Okay.

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Step outside and visit your local Lincoln retailer or Lincoln.com to find some seriously mood enhancing offers on current and past Lincoln models. Learn more at Lincoln.com. Molly Rubin. God. Yeah. You texted me about this needle drop. Anyway.

Here's Wonderwall. Tell me about the Oasis moment inside of this episode for you. What did this mean to you? First of all, what an Oasis moment we're living through right now. To me, Oasis and Wonderwall specifically, this like is being a 90s kid. Um,

have a maybe hot take that they blew it. Like, they didn't use this needle drop properly. This was like, I think the idea that this would be like the song that you're... I loved hearing it. It was a thrill to hear. And we're on the...

the brink of something that feels like a beautiful return. And so that kind of like headspace that you'd be in felt right, but I actually would have saved it for something genuinely more meaningful than this kind of like false start. Uh, I did enjoy pairing it with Mel and Jen talking about the fries into the milkshake, into the quarter pounder, then washing it down with a Sprite. These would be the exact conversations that I would be having. That's a fact. That is the exact. Yeah. Um,

Wonderwall, classic. Absolute fucking banger. So in season one, when you're eulogizing a yellow jacket named Rachel, Van says, quote, before we took off, I heard Rachel say that she was going to see Oasis at the Meadowlands next month. She was really excited. Now she's never going to hear Wonderwall again. Honestly tragic. On the one hand, I agree with you because this felt like a fairly like...

Yeah. Moment inside of the episode. On the other hand, I understand a whole lot better than I understand the moths. So Wonderwall, if you're in Wonderwall means you get to, you're, you've gone back home. Yes, definitely. So we're playing Wonderwall. I'm kind of like, save it for when they actually go home. Maybe they'll play it again. We can play it again. Let's, let's run it back. Um, let's, uh, let's have Driveshaft play it when they get off the plane. Okay. So. Oh man. Okay.

And Akilah has her vision of the pocket of gas, cave gas, comes up out of her poncho, gives her a vision of the crops are dead, all our animals are dead once again. Very sorry. Joseph in the Bible, if you're literate or if you're me, Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, a musical. And then Nat goes back to the fuselage and says goodbye to Ben. And this actually devastated me. So like Nat hears some spooky sounds when she's in the fuselage and like,

She has heard this, you know, we've encountered a moose there. Like, she's encountered things in that fuselage before. But she says they're leaving, quote, whatever you are behind. And we know that when Natalie dies at the end of season two. Yeah.

The last fucking thing she sees is this goddamn plane. Yeah. And she's like, I'm not, she's Juliette Lewis is sitting on the plane as now as adult Natalie. Javi's right next to her. Sophie Thatcher, full blonde. Sophie Thatcher is sitting on, on her left.

And she's like, I'm not supposed to be here. And young Nat, Sophie Thatcher says, quote, this is exactly where we belong. We've been here for years. Yep. Which was devastating in the moment as we were like pissed and upset and whatever the season two finale. But like, that's a devastating, that's a good, devastating moment of, of,

genre television we've been here for years but to hear Nat defiantly say you don't get to have me I'm leaving you behind inside of that plane and for us to know that it never loosens its grip on her right is tragic deeply um

You know, that final pre-death center aisle of the plane vision, but the other moments of the awakening and the processing of her Travis grief and everything, all of those, like, you know, it's in us, we brought it back moments and the confronting the inability to escape. I thought getting this, like, Akilah Nat moment

sequence kind of back-to-back was interesting because we have like, you know, again, how is everybody responding? We have like, and have since the very beginning of season one, we can think of the flight of the bumblebee or any number of other examples, this like,

It doesn't want us to leave idea that's been actively voiced and then also just ever present kind of in the air, much like potentially the cave guests. And so to see which characters actively embrace that, which characters more like passively fear it and accept it, and then which characters like Nat are going to stand up and shout in the face and resist it, but then not be able to escape it. Yeah.

All of that is interesting. With Akilah's vision, first of all, when Lottie showed up, and of course Lottie's like, did you see something? And then we got to see the cute little healthy little live bunnies jumping behind them. That was darling, and then I was very worried. But I couldn't... Could you tell... Was it like... Was your interpretation that the crops just had died or that there was a blight? Like...

A blight. Yeah, a blight. So that was my read as well. And then all the animals ate the diseased crops and they died, right? That's what made me think of Joseph. Yeah. So this warning, not just... And what each person is seeing for Nat...

As you beautifully outlined, this place, not just the broader place, but that specific chamber, all of these meaningful memories and moments, the euphoria of thinking that they had found food at last, the kind of fumbling, oh, our lives have changed, but we are still teenagers, like sexual false start and initial exploration with Travis, like all of that, right? For Akilah, there's this like...

Okay, maybe I'm a prophet, but also I'm like the tender. I'm the gardener. I have the crops. I'm raising the animals. I'm caring for us. I'm helping us sustain. And this idea that not only would the people be in peril, but that like the... We have barely seen her this season without an animal cradled in her arms, right? So this like idea that if you leave...

more broadly what awaits is doom, but also you are dooming this thing, like this like casting of the blame. It will be on you what will happen here if you do this thing. Felt like the message that she would either manifest the internal fear that's surfacing or the it, the wilderness would send to her. I kind of wish we'd seen something like this for like almost everyone. Fascinating. Yeah.

Do you think Akilah's plan was to put Mortimer in her backpack? Like, was Mortimer coming with her or were none of the animals coming with her? How many days since Cobbanthin? How many days since a Mortimer update? Just asking the questions. I've been waiting longer. Okay. We already mentioned this, so we get the Lottie, Shauna, Ty, I'm staying moment. The rest of the camp, the vast majority wants to go. Yes.

Also, Ty has an axe, but Team I Want to Go has the gun and the crossbow. They have the weapons. How is Shauna going to win this one? Can't wait to fucking find out. Right. But Shauna says they're not going in her, like, very, like, snarly, evil Shauna voice that we've, like, whatever. Yeah.

It's intriguing to me, and by intriguing I mean deeply upsetting, that Lottie, Shauna, and Ty will all survive the wilderness. They're like, they're the ones who want to stay, and they're all the ones who get to go home and live for a couple more decades. And a number of these girls who wind up staying will not make it out of the wilderness alive. Yeah. Fucked up, okay? Deeply. And then this like... Well, they blame themselves for that.

I don't know. Look inward, Shauna. I have no idea. I think it's really interesting. We've talked about all this sort of like the reasons why, you know, Lottie's mental health, Ty's sexuality, Shauna not wanting to go back to being like a beta like she was with Jackie or I don't believe in betas, by the way. I'm just using convenient language. Not going back to only fill out all the high achieving stuff she's meant to do.

drama with a gifted child, not going back to the patriarch, I don't know. And I want to get back to that, I think, when we talk about some of the more adult Shauna stuff. But I really liked this observation I saw on the subreddit where someone was circling back to season two. If Shauna's the reason or a reason that they don't get to leave in this moment, if they stay for another winter because of the shit that Shauna is pulling right here. Yeah. Because if it were me...

And I were Nat with a gun, I would have simply shot Shauna in that moment, to be honest with you. Not somewhere vital, but, you know. Flesh wound? A knee or something like that. I'll be like, stay. Enjoy your stay. I'm going. Knee injuries heal very quickly on this show. Yeah. Mari's fine. Yeah. She's doing great. If Shauna is the reason or a reason that,

Myriad of reasons. A very reason you can point to why they stayed. Does this recontextualize the end of season two when Shauna draws the Queen of Hearts and the girls just sort of like immediately go into their sort of like wilderness hunt positions in a way that my initial read of that, because I would say end of season two, we were not thinking of Shauna as the villain of the show. Ending of season three, I'm not sure that I can make that assumption. Right.

So if the girls are like, we've been waiting for this one. Shauna draws the queen of hearts and they're like, finally, we get to hunt Shauna who did this shit to us and is like responsible for us missing out on this big rescue moment. Yeah.

Is that something that is interesting to you? I know it still doesn't square with some of the things that you pointed out in season one of Ty and Shauna's closeness or a few other things. It doesn't seem like... I actually think what's most confusing to me reading out of season one is Nat and Shauna. Why aren't Nat and Shauna more...

depicted as more at odds it's not being irritated with misty but it's not not at war with shauna in a way that i would expect given what we're seeing right now right there's months to go we don't know what's going to happen but like maybe we'll eventually learn that nat poorly buried adam martin's body parts on purpose together long-awaited revenge on shauna no i mean it's a great point i i

It's a really good question. Like, I think I'm interested. I mean, I am interested to see at the start, I presume, of next episode. What do Ty and Lottie say to that? Because they've made the choice that they think is right for them.

but seemed content to let everybody else leave. Now, I'm sure Ty, obviously Ty 101 with Van made her pitch, but like, if the next episode... The way that Ty was holding that axe was like slightly menacing to me. Yeah. But so like, if at the beginning of the next episode, Ty is like, yeah, stay, you can't go either. Then on the one hand, it sort of cements their...

because they're in a similar position, but it makes maybe Ty being ready to hunt down Shauna a little more confusing. But if Ty is like, you know what? This is right for us. It's not right for them. Let them go do their thing. Then that's kind of illuminating in a different way. Ultimately, like you said, we have a lot of time left to go in the wilderness, though albeit potentially not on the show. Worrying. Yeah.

traveling. So, you know, we'll see. But yeah, like I think also what Shauna said to Mel in the present timeline of this episode about like,

actually, it's genius. Like, we could make all the vows and pacts we want, but the only way to really ensure that everybody keeps our secrets is to kill all the rest. And obviously, Shauna's just talking about herself and yet again, trying to like justify her own behavior and sanction the thing that she is about to do, which is try to kill this person and presumably then try to kill other people. Maybe other characters have their version of that too, where it's like, boy, Shauna just like

Left a body?

That was a really reckless thing that endangered our lives. Pulled the card? Sure. Why not? Right. I remain sort of confounded by that response, but I think, you know, that larger, like, the wilderness never let go of any of them. They were there all along to go back to that kind of final moment of Nat's life theme. That remains really interesting to me. Who is, like, just kind of quickly ready to kill somebody and who isn't is, like, a little bit of a leaf on the wind with the show, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's right. Okay, that takes us into the adult timeline. I feel like we've already gone through this dream pretty well. The only thing I want to add is the two boxes of cocoa that are here, are they a Jackie Death dream reference or are they a Mari reference or are they both? I like Mari so much and I'm very concerned about her. I'm so much more concerned.

a fucking twist. I remain, like, really into these moments with Shauna and Snacky. Oh. Ella Pernel has been so great this season. Every visit, great. A gift always when Ella is here. And I just, I do still really like, you know, thinking back to, like, what did Shauna say at Jackie's eulogy? You know, I don't know where you end and I begin. And...

This idea of, as we've talked about before, Shauna's own self-loathing manifesting in the form of simultaneously her best friend, someone who she in some ways wanted to be and in other ways deeply resented and actually hated, is just...

A consistently rich text, and it does make sense to me that Shauna would, like, continue to see Jackie all this time later in the guilt. And that this specific thing, like, what did we heard it in the freezer in episode four? Like, after I died, did you finally turn into the person that you always wanted to be? Like, that that is actually the thing that Jackie's ghost is tormenting Shauna about.

boring life. This was the thing. This was the great thing that you amounted to. And obviously it could be a wonderful life. Smoking chronic in your daughter's room? Honestly, I have some notes on what Shauna does in Callie's room, as you know. I have plenty of other things about that life could be great. But Shauna won't. That's not the life Shauna wanted. And it is a life that she deeply resents. And that is very present in her conversations with Mel. I just want to shout out our listener, Paul, who wrote in.

who is going to play adult moth. Absolutely incredible email. Instant Hall of Famer. Unbelievable. Do you want to cast adult moth? Who's playing adult moth? This is genuinely hysterical email. I'm going to go with Gabby Hoffman. Gabby Hoffman as adult moth. Okay.

So Shauna, knife up her sleeve, totally normal, breaks into Melissa, a.k.a. Kelly, and Alex's house. This is such a fuck you to Mel. Like, I bought this hunting knife.

But I won't bring it in a sheath. You're the sheath person. I'm going to put it in my fucking sleeve. Brutal. We've talked about this already. I mean, I do like that Melissa immediately knows that Sean is there. Yeah. We talked about the Apple convo. We get checkoffs. Your gas tank is empty. Line as Alex and the kid are on the way out the door. And we've talked about the hat, but I do want to read this.

This is what we got from Lindsay, who says, Sorry, I wish I could be one of those people to write in something super insightful. But actually, I'm one of those people who is just writing in to discuss how delightful it is that the Twitter slash X ship name for Shauna and Melissa is Shauna Hat. Especially given the Hilary Swank intro this most recent episode. Great stuff. So, Shauna and the Hat. That is what we are dealing with here. It is...

It's tough stuff for us. I want to do all... We cut back and forth to this. I kind of want to do it all together. So we're going to come back to that. Let's just knock out the Missy tie van stuff because I think it is... Missy continues to be, for me, the best part of the entire season. Not close. Christina Ricci. Yeah. The van and tie stuff continues to me to be quite weak. Agreed. But Missy saying, hi, Sean, I'm just calling to say fuck you actually. Yeah.

I'm devastated we can't do clips on the show right now because I would like to hear it right now. So good. And then Ty goes to palliative care to murder someone. Yes. Chickens out, but he flatlines anyway. Then she says, did that count? Astonishing stuff. Genuinely great.

And then we get the double tie, the other one and nice tie sort of locked out of Van's room. Yes. What do you make of us seeing this sort of physical manifestation of the split, which is not something we usually see? Yeah, I was trying to like think back to even glimpses of something similar and there's like

At the hospital early in season two, after the car accident, you know, the kind of separate facial movements and expressions in the mirror at the hospital. But this was a degree beyond that of...

I have walked through this door. I have moved into a space of proximity, of love, of care, of action that you cannot inhabit that felt distinct. And then there was just like, you know, the, the, you never did believe like on the, the never, because we've been tracking all season and asking like,

when have we been with Ty and when have we been with the other one? And so like, you know, thinking across timelines and obviously as we already discussed, we have a very prominent, Oh, the other one is here moment in the, yeah, the, the youngster timeline. You know,

This idea of like the other one always activating in a moment of violence or protection and then the way that those two things become confused for a person. Like what it means to love and is to do what is necessary, even if it means smothering this stranger with a pillow. So as Thaisa's defense attorney. Yes, please. Yeah. In the trial over Biscuit's life.

You're saying Thaisa innocent because only the other one would murder a dog because Thaisa never even believed. Thaisa would never make an altar of any kind. She wouldn't even light a candle. It's only the other one who does shit like that. I still don't think either of them should be able to have biscuit on their lock screen. Is that your case? Okay. Jeff and Callie at the Jolly Hitcher. Okay. Um,

A Muzak version of The Girl from Ipanema is playing. I love The Girl from Ipanema, Muzak or otherwise. I'm always down for it. We had a couple interaction with the Joles, right? This is where we get the FurnitureFam.net moment that you cited earlier. This idea that like Jeff is the kind of guy who gets waved over, not the kind of guy who does the waving. And...

When Misty calls Jeff and he's like, what's Shauna done now? His sort of like anger and sorrow when he says that. Freaky little four-eyed mushroom. Great stuff for Misty. And then the aforementioned pillow-based meltdown. But here's where things get really interesting. Callie and Jeff decide in the room that, by the way, the same room that Shauna and Adam had back in season one, 2106, is the room where they're staying in now.

That is dark. Shauna is demented. Okay. Kelly and Jeff are like, oh, you think no one's... I think... You think no one's... Why do you think no one's after? Okay. Kelly gives some real dicey... Two things. Two things are blaring in this scene. Yeah.

The prominent scratches on Jeff's hand, which we've mentioned before, but get much more prominent play as he's sort of like holding him over his face, right? Did you notice the scratches on my hand? So he has reason to believe that no one's after Shauna. And then Callie's like, I have reasons to... Don't worry about my reasons to believe. Right. Now, does that have to do with the fucking note that Melissa points out was with the tape that we have never seen a line of that perhaps Callie has? Or...

Where are you on Jeff did a murder and it was Lottie? And where are you when Callie did a murder and it was Lottie? Where are you? I... I don't want either of them to have done a murder or done a kill. Yeah. I... Um...

I don't know. There's a part of me that like has really liked the fucked up like Sudeikis family that kills together, stays together kind of vibe. Yeah. Across the seasons and this like embrace of the darkness in each other. And you could see how that would then like heighten the darkness inside of themselves. The whole fucking show starts with Jeff.

black, using his wife's secret journals containing her deepest, darkest secrets to blackmail her friends and teammates to try to get money from them and not telling her about that. So like,

There is certainly, like, enough of a foundation to build on to lead Jeff or Callie to have wound up in a circumstance where maybe something then tragic happened. I don't know if either of them setting out to kill Lottie would ever track for me. So, like, I was looking back at the scenes with the envelope in terms of the note and Mel being like, it was all in the note. First of all, here's a note for Mel.

don't leave all of it in a note that's insane fuck like you can't put all that in a note also if we're to believe her which I don't really yeah yeah yeah but if we're to believe her

Don't need the tape at all. Right. Yeah. I'm interested to hear where you are on Mel's suspicion watch. But I think like... Okay, so Callie takes the tape out of the envelope. We don't see a note. Then Jeff kind of comes into the kitchen and Callie's startled. She puts the envelope down by her side. The next episode...

And there was that weird scene at the time we talked about and we're like, Lottie just like opening the door to Callie's bedroom. Very odd. Revisiting that because I was like, do we see the note? Because Callie has the tape in her hand and then she puts it in the desk drawer. Yeah. Now I'm wondering if the reason that that scene happened in that way was so that Lottie would know that something was there. Did Lottie go back in and get the note?

And then did Callie have to seek the note out from her? Though I have like a sequencing question on this that it wouldn't, I don't quite know how to reconcile where like, first of all, just does Lottie have the note is interesting to me kind of period. But how to bring Callie into it, I think I'm having a, like, when Callie has to like, oh, fuck, I should have given you this moment, that's after Lottie has already done it.

and she like goes and opens the drawer. She's like, fuck, fuck, where is it? And it did seem like it was maybe not exactly where she thought it would be, which again kind of heightened my suspicion that maybe someone had been in that drawer and taken the note. So I'm on does Lottie have the note or did Lottie have the note corner and will that tie into what happens? Overall, where are you on whether it's what Jeff and Callie or

voicing here, what Mel is voicing, what we have speculated about, like, is someone trying to get Shauna or not? What do you think? Oh, that's a different question. Did Callie kill or did Jeff kill Lottie? Yeah. Feels in the cards for me, honestly. Okay. Which one are you putting your money on? Callie, because I kind of like this idea that, like,

The darkness inside of Shauna is inside of Callie or whatever. That's so sad. Like, what's the message of the show? I don't know. That's so dark. That's sad? Here's my deal. Did someone cut the brakes? Did someone lock the freezer door? This, that, or the other thing. On the one hand, given the...

There's a there's a reasonable, a simple, reasonable explanation for everything. I'm often looking for that route in the show. Yeah. On the other hand. Yeah. The way that Melissa is turning the gaslight tables and turning the gaslight all the way up to 11 on Shauna being like, yeah, maybe you're just crazy. And then for Jeff to also say, my wife is fucking a fucking crazy person.

uh, in a way I didn't, I did not get mad at him for, yeah. Because then he says, haven't you ever fallen in love with an unhinged woman? Or is every woman you've ever been with been fucking boring, immediate redemption art from Jeff. But like, if Jeff's like, Sean is crazy. Cal's like, is mom crazy? And Melissa's like, you're crazy. That's the moment I, this is my weakness in the world. I'm like, stop. Okay. First of all, no. And now I'm like,

Ask me last week, I've been like, Shauna's lost the plot. Now I'm like, too many people are calling her crazy and not taking her seriously enough. And so has Shauna made incorrect claims in the past about Adam, about other things? It seems so. I feel like she's not wrong about Melissa in one way or another because there's just too many people being like,

Oh, Shauna, I've lost it. Oh, no. And the way that Melissa reads Shauna, I think is quite accurate. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And we're gonna get to that in a second. Yes, I'm with you. Because like, I think on the one hand, it feels very poetic and tragic.

For Shauna to just keep making the same mistake. Like, this would be just another version of what she did with Adam. Yes. Right? This suspicion and paranoia and fear getting the best of her. And her courting and inciting a bad outcome that actually wasn't there otherwise. Yeah. That is interesting. Yeah.

perhaps in this current way, at the expense, actually, of the thing she always uses her excuse to do whatever she needed to do, which is her family. That would be very poignant. I'm with you, though, that like the volume of people voicing it makes me more inclined to think. Also, I just am like, I'm sorry, but like kids die, Henry. They die all the time. Freeze or doors

Oh, Sean, I'm in close all the time. I'm like, someone came in that bathroom and turned off the lights and like. Yeah, left that cell phone. Left that phone. Yeah. That happened. Yeah. And we also saw like someone watching her. I mean, we know that. Right. That was Mel for part of it. But like, no, I mean, she's not. Her conclusion may not be entirely correct. Yeah.

But I don't think nothing is going on. And I definitely don't believe that Melissa's like, I just want a normal, boring life and I don't want anything to do with you guys. Because why would you leave the tape in that case? Okay, so anything else you want to say about Callie and Jeff before we move into the final sort of like Sean and Melissa sequence? Jeff says, I'm the reason most people like anything. I'm affable. And that I felt like was a direct read of us, the audience back home. Totally. Yeah.

uh embarrassed by it anytime that you and i are like walter and jeff are our favorite parts of the show about complicated women uh i felt read to filth by that but um yeah i thought this was interesting to watch callie in that final like post it's all in the cloud checkout scene um callie to watch to watch jeff pitch the joels one more time and talk the the

Callie's face watching Jeff basically embarrass her mother, but then also praise her was just so fascinating to me. She was like, dad, go get it. You finally stood up for yourself, but you did it while saying that mom is like,

So I felt really bad for Shauna. In a way, I liked and appreciated it. It was like a return of a level of like, oh, a pang in my heart for her that I really needed. And then I did have the same experience you did when Jeff was like, you know, have you never – have all the – every woman you've ever been with been fucking boring. I was like, okay.

He found a way to like toast her and praise her and celebrate the darkness. And that felt crucial because otherwise I was like, dude. But I was also proud of Jeff. I was proud of him for standing up for himself because like when we watched that dinner meeting, we're like,

This is terrible. Like, she's just... I'm so pissed off at Shauna. Show some care for the person in your life. The Cali facial expression is really interesting to me as well because, like, it almost seemed to me like she was smirking a little bit. And, like, I don't think that Cali has been actively working against Shauna, but in this moment, she wants her dad to be on her side, which is, like, mom's lost it. Yeah. We don't need to do what mom says. Right. So to watch Jeff...

who we really like. Affable. Like, does he have a spine here a bit? But isn't he just doing exactly what Callie wants him? Hasn't he just gone from doing what Shauna tells him to do to doing what Callie tells him to do? Yeah. And I don't mean to be like...

about this or whatever. Like, that's fine. But I'm just sort of like, Jeff's just sort of like buffeted on the wind of like, you know, these two much stronger personalities that are around him, it seems like to me. Speaking of strong personalities in the room, we go now to Tuesday, Moscow, Winter, Hillary Swank and Melanie Linsky. Okay. The hat is stupid. Yeah.

And I have a lot of other issues. I think Hilary Swank is great. I thought she was great in this role. I thought she was like a really good, could really hold it down in a scene with Melanie Linsky, which is not always easy for people to do, I think.

Agreed. I also hate this. The implication that Melissa faked her own suicide after being rescued from the wilderness and the cops asked no questions about the lack of a body because she left a note. Made absolutely no sense. Zero sense. And citizen detective Misty Quigley didn't figure this one out. Right. I want to believe in Misty.

And I do. And there's so many times that she's ahead of everyone. But, like, she didn't know about Lottie and the cults. And she didn't... You know, like, there's just, like, a lot of stuff that Misty did not... She's like, I've got surveillance on everyone. Yeah. But she's missing a lot of tricks here. And that... I actually don't like that because it seems like... It feels like, to me, the show's like, we just want to add this other person or we just want to add this other survivor or we just want to add this other story. I totally agree. When I think if...

if we were really presenting Misty the way that we have been, she would have been aware of all of this stuff. No doubt. I don't think it hurts the story for her to know that Melissa's alive and not tell anyone. Well, maybe it does. Anyway, I don't need to examine that right now. Okay. Yeah, I'm with you here. Also, like, Jessica Roberts didn't dig up anything to put in a folder on this. That chick sucked at her job. Okay. Can I ask you another kind of big picture question?

Do you care enough about the Shawna-Mel relationship in the past for like this much of the present storyline to hinge on Mel's return? I don't think we're supposed to care about their relationship. I think we're supposed to care about what it says about Shawna as like...

a leader slash user of people. Yeah. But I don't think I'm supposed to be emotionally invested in their relationship. Not emotionally invested, but I feel like we needed a couple more scenes where we saw them interact privately for this to like... I think what we really needed was like two more Melissa scenes in season two where she had a personality. Yes. And not just this like

Yeah. Well, let's conjure something out of nothing in season three. Right. It exacerbates that thing you're citing of like, well, the person we could do this with is just the person we never thought about before. So tough. Someone sent me a meme that I'm just going to read out. Love to read memes on a podcast. Is this good podcasting? Question mark. You think in her suicide note, instead of writing Melissa, she drew a hat to make them know it was her.

Is that anything Melissa signed her suicide note, her fake suicide note, just with a hat, a little drawing of a hat? How is she going to make sure that we understand that it's backwards facing? That's the important question. Boy. When I was living in San Francisco in my early 20s and a friend of ours was sort of like figuring out, let's say, figuring out her sexuality. And...

She was like dating a guy friend of ours, but like we were pretty sure she was gay and she figured it out for herself. You know, we're in our young 20s. We're all figuring it out. She figured out that she was gay or just anyone, whatever. At one point, we were sort of trying to like figure out what the deal was or whatever. She had this group of friends who all wore baseball hats, like flat brim, like whatever. And my friend was like,

She's friends with all those hats. She said she was just like, she's friends with all those hats. And so I was just thinking about Melissa and her hat. Here's the line that is just one of the best things I've ever seen on television, which is Shauna asking, are you still in love with me? Incredible moment. Like, never was. Just needed to get laid in the wilderness. Yeah.

That was, yeah, it's an incredible moment, incredible line. Great response from Hilary Swank in that scene. So embarrassed for you, Shawna. Really tough. Melissa takes the fucking hat off, hopefully to never go back on her head again. Hilary Swank fluffs her hair out as if to say, good, that's over with. I miss the hat, personally. I hope it returns. She says that Nat's death spooked her. My question, that's fair. Sure. My question is,

How does she know the details of what happened on the compound? Or she's like, you guys are back at it. You're back into rituals. You're doing all this shit again. How does she know what was going on? So...

I have these questions as well. And it is part of what I think keeps Mel in a firm position of active suspicion because that indicates a like, you know, there are a lot of like interesting little details, even just like, like marrying the daughter of a woman we killed when Shauna says it that way, we killed. There's like a, like an active quality to that, right? Hannah didn't just die. We killed pit girl. Um,

Are you on Hannah Pitt girl watch? I mean, you put it in my mind when the hair came down and now it feels like a lock almost. But I hope we've got enough time for multiple Pitt people at this point. I forgot about the tape. Danny kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet. Mel kind of forgot about the tape.

Of them all screaming and then someone dying. Of them all screaming and killing someone. And then the mother of her current wife recording a final message to her long lost kid. That's not frankly believable. That's just not believable. So then I'm like, okay, was Mel...

Is Mel like a solo agent who was somehow keeping tabs or looking into them? Or is this connected? Because we still have this question of like what happened with Lottie, right? As we were just talking about, like, did Mel learn this from Lottie somehow? I don't know that I have like a strong answer or theory, but like, I agree with you that that's just a... It points... It's either bad storytelling or it points to a level of...

Involvement and surveillance from Mel that is incongruous with her stated desire to be totally separate from all of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. We'll stay tuned. How did Melissa know all of this? Is it just shoddy writing or is it something more? I listened to Kat point out. So Melissa mentions Barbara, her life coach slash advisor, who is not licensed. And Kat pointed out that...

in Virginia. Quote, intuitive person is not covered by doctor-patient confidentiality. So anything that Melissa might have told her, Barbara can tell the authorities. And so she kind of likes this idea that

Shauna is going to assume that Barbara would spill the beans and come after her even if Barbara has no intention to do so. Yeah. Barbara on Death Watch the second her name was invoked. Yeah. Instantly. Yeah. Kat wrote, and now Shauna knows about another potential weak link, a stranger who may have been let in on the secret and has to be disposed of, a parallel to the froggers in a way, a parallel to Adam for sure, basically RIP in advance Barbara. Yes. Yeah.

We can say goodbye to another Barb on TV. Definitely. I mean, Shauna's in an active moment of like even people, she has a deep connection to you saying you're a risk to me. You hate a Barb. I hate a Barb. I hate a Barb. Okay, so you already flagged this line that Shauna has where she's like, the only way to be perfectly safe is to be the last one standing. Yes.

I feel like this is the premise of season four of Yellowjacket. I feel like it's an all out Yellowjacket hunt of like every Yellowjacket for themselves sort of thing. Yeah. It reminded me a lot of one of the most important works of storytelling and literature, which is the Highlander franchise, in which I don't know if you know the rules of the Highlander franchise, but there can be only one.

And these immortals go around the world beheading each other because in the world there can only be one immortal and they have to kill all the other immortals. So if the Yellow Jackets want to start beheading each other, that sounds great to me. But yeah, if it's Van v. Ty v. Misty v. Shauna v. Melissa, you know, and how far does Shauna take this? Perfect.

is it all the yellow jackets or is Jeff in danger because of what he knows is Callie in danger because of what she knows you know like how far will we go to bury this girl I mean we already as we discussed last week like when do you hit the moment where you're beyond redemption but that would certainly be an irredeemable thing but we had that threat like that threatening moment between Shawna and Callie that I do think at least at least makes it reasonable for us to discuss that possibility certainly

Sean is outraged at Melissa claiming she has a happy, normal, boring life. She's basically like, you don't get to have that. First of all, you're living a lie.

Which is outrageous from Shauna, given all the lies that she has orchestrated around herself, right? Though I did think, honestly, that this was like the one time where I was like, Shauna, it's outrageous, but also it's, she's right. This is fucking weird to marry the daughter of a person. Yes, of course it is. It's like not,

the hell is that but like why are we chasing normalcy when we like ate people in the woods you know what i mean like so okay well that was lottie's whole point so the thing that i think sunshine bothers did what did you think of shauna being like it was actually more of a yeah yeah intentional community made me think of the lasting impact of bruce the goat yeah nice

Sweet purse. The problem for Shauna is that if Melissa is actually, actually happy with this weird little life that she's crafted for herself as Kelly, then Shauna is wrong.

that they can't have a normal life post-Woods. In the journal at the beginning of the season, she said, so they told themselves stupid fairy tales and pretended they were brave and strong because the reality was that even if rescue came, they could never go home again because of what they'd done, because of what they'd become. That's the truth. And hearing anything else makes me want to just fucking, you know, cut off. So like, Shauna being like, how dare you say you have a normal life? If that's true,

Then everything I then me saying at the end of this episode, we're not going home. Yeah. Is is based on a lie. Right. Like my firm belief that you can't go home again. Yes. Or the way in which my family is falling apart is my fault. And not just like because of, you know, this thing that happened in the woods. None of us are allowed to be happy if I'm not allowed to be happy. Yeah. If I'm not allowed to be normal. Yeah.

And I think also this is where, like, it feels so purposeful that this is the thing we keep seeing Jackie manifest to goad and poke Shauna about. It's like, there's a version of this where Shauna says...

okay, I didn't think I could go home, but I did. And it wasn't what I thought. Yeah. It wasn't Brown and it wasn't, you know, all of these, these futures that I had imagined when I was young, but I have a husband, I have a kid, I have a family I love. It wasn't the life I envisioned, but it's a life. And it's so actively not the life that Shauna wants that like, it's galling to her that it could be the life anybody else would want either. Yeah.

And I think if you go back to season one, watching her like, is she watching like Jeopardy or whatever? Like knowing the answers, just feeling like she's better than everyone else and better than this life that she has found herself in. Melissa's saying, who's lying now about Callie knowing everything about Shawna and loving her anyway? Yeah.

That's a million dollar baby uppercut TKO. Is that how we talk about boxing, Mallory? Great work. Oh, man. That was brutal. Boom. Bop. Like just amazing stuff from Melissa. Landed the knockout punch for sure. That was great. You create your own problems. You stir the fucking pot just to feel alive.

Even before the plane crash, weren't you fucking your best friend's boyfriend behind her back? This is so good. You stew and you seethe. That is such a good encapsulation of Melanie Linsky's performance. And Sophie Millie says, you stew and you seethe and you make it everyone else's problem because you hate to be alone. You hate yourself and you want everyone else to feel just as miserable as you are. And then it should be noted that

In terms of like, where are we on believing Melissa? Yeah. She does go for Shauna's knife. Yes. The old water glass trick. Yeah. The water glass gambit. She does go for Shauna's knife. Yeah. Shauna's too fast. Fucks up her arm, gets her down to the floor, and then bites. Disgusting. I've seen it be referred to as a bicep. I think it's more of a tricep bite anyway. I thought it was the front bicep. You thought it was front bicep? Yeah. A little chunk of bicep.

A bicep bite. Disgusting. Coming soon to Applebee's. She left that in her mouth longer than she needed to. She was tasting that human flesh. Eat it. Eat it. Eat it.

Eat it! Better or worse than telling Mari to eat the spitty dirt stew? Certainly worse. No, this is not much of a contest. We're going to pull you... So you were talking about control earlier. So this is that again, right? Shauna, this is the most...

active method of control possible. I am pinning you down. I am telling you that your life and your version of happiness is not real. I am telling you that you have done this thing to me. I am tearing pieces of your body away from you and telling you what to do with them. But it's also, of course, seeking to drag, like, a reminder, right? The most...

visceral reminder possible. Literally. Literally. Of the thing that they shared together and that they did together and that Mel is not, from Shauna's perspective, better than her. Like, you did this, we did this, you're going to do it again and I'm going to make you, I am going to drag you back. Forget flocking to the light. I'm going to drag you back down into that deep, dark hole. Right.

where I still am. Get in the pit, Lisa. Get in the pit. The metaphorical pit. This was disgusting. An absolutely iconic moment from this show. Yeah. Oh, yeah. As much as I hated the hat,

I will forever love and think about Melanie Linsky with like a piece of flesh in her mouth. So gross. A piece of arm smeared in blood because Melissa got her good in the nose, like partially broke her nose. Oh, yeah. And she's got blood, you know, real Lottie look down her face. Yeah.

um yeah okay we had asked okay let's okay i'm gonna i'm gonna move this thing into theory corner let's do a quick theory corner before we go best needle drop before we go to theory corner it's it's wonderwall for you i mean it has to be just because i love that song so much but i do actually think the way all right was deployed in the episode was better um i agree it's super grass for me i loved that okay

Shauna, Callie, and the DNA. We got actually a couple emails from people who work in the world of forensics and genetics. Incredible. Answering our questions about if Walter is saying it's Shauna's DNA under the nails, could it be Callie's DNA instead? Right. Laura sent us a long email with a lot of specifics, and this is her summation. Laura says, if we're meant to believe that modern forensic methods were employed—

and that reference to a quote match means that the precise individual who contributed the fingernail DNA sample has been identified, then I don't think the show can get away with saying it's actually Callie's DNA. But this show has gotten away with some hand-waving the past, so who knows? Science.

So basically a lot of people are like, science says no. Right. Okay. But we're not going to hold yellow jackets to that. Got it. So that's one thing. Interesting. I feel like, well, I trust Walter and Misty to keep exploring. By the way, if you're, this is probably what season four or possibly what season four could be, it is correct. Highlander?

My money is on fucking Misty and Walter being the ones who make it out alive. And what a thrill that would be. Yes. Walter, Misty, Misty last person standing. Yeah. With Walter by her side. The best. For going, going from being the one on the outside of the whole group to being the lone Victor at the end, but with her puzzle. It can't be Shauna. It's either everyone dies. Yeah. It's either everyone dies or it's Misty. It can't be Shauna. I don't think it can be Ty. Yeah.

And I have no money on Melissa. And Van does not seem to be doing well. I mean, Van is just like basically already gone. It's just a kind of essence in the episode more than an active character in the present timeline. Okay. Walter and Misty, we remain invested and we remain eager for Walter to get that TRT up. What are we calling their spinoff?

Just citizen detectives. Yeah. Why fuck with something that works? Yeah. I love it. Or like Yellow Jackets Investigations or something like that. You know, like they name their private detective company after the Yellow Jackets or something like that. So then you can have the IP and the name. Smart. You know, for branding reasons. Okay. So...

seasons ago when describing what the premise of the show was, the showrunner said something about like, there was some quote about like dueling tribes of survivors. Yes. Is this what we're about to see? Will the division of the camp mean there are separate rescue missions? Will all of them be rescued at once? We've seen them be rescued.

And we think we know that there are eight of them, Oceanic Eight, very lost. And that Melissa has to be the last one because Melissa came back with them. So that has to be the last one unless they decide there are more, unless Jen like hikes it out, Akilah, you know, survives somehow. Like, are there going to be separate rescue missions? Are we going to see, is it the trio versus everyone else? Or are the trio going to be able to recruit other people to their side? Yeah.

In season one, Ty tells Shauna we wouldn't be here without her, meaning Nat. Right. So is it Nat that gets him rescued? Does she go off solo? She's like, fine, none of you will come. I will go with a small faction. Like, where are you on, like, where everyone is going to be? Because what we know we have to see is someone go into a pit. Yeah. And the Antler Queen and her court, including Misty...

Eating said pit girl in the dead of winter. That all still has to happen. Right. Yeah. The eagle-eyed people on the subreddit have pointed out that there are fewer people in that fire sequence than are left, still left. Right. You know, I think it's, you know, like eight or nine, you know, something like that. So like, is, yeah, are a faction of them going to split off?

Are we going to kill a bunch of people all at once? Like, what are we doing, do you think? Are we... Is the reason that Nat is in a different plane when she dies because we were doing the full lost and they're going back in a different plane? No, I'm kidding. That's a joke. And a huge spoiler. But no, like, when, you know, when Lottie...

made her very locky in speech. And then Shauna and Ty both decided to stay. I was like, whoa, this is just exactly what we talked about last week. Like it's the lost factions and we have our split. And there are groups of people who believe that a different path forward is correct. And then I immediately was like, oh, is that not happening right away? Because Shauna is going to make them all stay. But I don't know why I don't

believe that Shauna would have that power. Yeah. How can she make them stay? I don't think she can. Right? She doesn't even have the weapons. Yeah. She has nothing. And ruling by fear, there's just a limit. And if the thing that we hear a number of characters, including like Van, you know, voice in this episode is like, well, Travis, like that, it's rescue, rescue Trump's all. I don't think they would be cowed by that intimidation tactic. So...

Is there a moment where they stay and then they break away? I don't know. I feel like the moment has come for a split, definitively. I'm hoping for it. That doesn't mean to me, though, that we don't then have a coming back together. So that's sort of what I think is most likely. Factions, to be clear, on Lost.

Factions were forever swapping and reblending and remixing and stuff like that on the island. Okay. Yeah. Alliances change in Survivor. Who's to say? Okay. Speaking of, before we go, Mallory and I just want to endorse the season of Survivor because we both actively wept through the latest episode of Survivor. Shattered. You told me that. I was like, well, that won't happen to me. And then it did.

I was like, you were like, I was sobbing and I was like, when Mallory sobs, I might shed a tear or two. And I was like sobbing. I have never been so deeply moved by something I have seen on Survivor as I was by last week's episode. It was just such an, I won't get into the specifics. Enjoy it for yourself if you haven't. Such an incredible display of humanity. Yeah.

So beautiful. Really, really, really, really incredible. Watch Survivor. Unbelievable. Watch Yellow Jackets. Watch Daredevil. Get ready for The Last of Us. Get ready for Andor. We are House of R. Dude, we're like a month away from Thunderbolts. You hyped. I'm so excited for Thunderbolts. Yeah. I can't even tell you. What was the number one name on the chair for Avengers Doomsday that you were most excited to see? Oh. Um.

I'm just going to make Mallory catch up on all the content she missed. Kirby. You know, my wife. Okay. Your wife and us are Kirby. Okay, great. Love that for you. I was excited by a number of the chairs, and I have questions about some of the missing names, as do we all. Okay. You can't fool me, Kevin. He can. They're all coming. Okay. Okay.

This has been Yellow Jackets, season three, episode eight. I will not be back for episode nine, but I will be back for the finale. So that's exciting. And I want to thank Arjun Arangapal for his work always on the feed. I want to thank John Richter, who set me up in this beautiful room that is not quite the void, slightly cheerier than the void where I've spent much of the last few weeks.

And Carlos Churuboga, who is back on the Yellow Jackets beat with us because Steve is in Portland, Oregon. So shout out to Carlos. We missed you. We're happy to have you here with us as we wrap up Yellow Jackets. Mallory Rubin, I'll see you later this week, hopefully in person, but only if you're feeling better. That's the goal. And I hope you're on the mend. Thank you, darling. Bye.