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cover of episode The World in 2025 with Peter Frankopan and Emily Maitlis: Making Sense of our Past, Present and Future (Part Two)

The World in 2025 with Peter Frankopan and Emily Maitlis: Making Sense of our Past, Present and Future (Part Two)

2024/11/29
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Intelligence Squared

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Emily Maitlis
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Peter Frankopan
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Emily Maitlis: 讨论围绕西方国家在未来可能面临的影响力下降展开,特别关注社会经济、民主等多个方面。她提出,亚洲国家在经济、科技和国际事务中日益重要的地位,可能导致西方国家影响力下降。她还担忧西方国家在未来20年里,在经济、气候和民主对话中,其相关性可能会大大降低。 Peter Frankopan: 他从人口和资源的角度分析了亚洲国家在国际事务中的重要地位,指出亚洲人口众多,资源丰富,而欧洲国家在人口和资源方面处于劣势。他以印度成为欧洲最大的石油供应国为例,说明全球能源格局的变化。他还谈到欧洲低生育率和一些领导人鼓励生育的现象,以及与中国和俄罗斯关系友好的欧洲领导人似乎处于更有利的地位。他认为中国在全球制造业中的份额迅速增长,反映了其经济实力的提升。他还指出,尽管亚洲各国政治体制不同,但维护权力都是执政党的主要目标。他认为,民主制度可能在未来变得不那么普遍,并分析了2024年全球许多执政党失去权力的现象,以及经济状况对选民投票行为的影响。他还谈到选民对执政党的不满情绪日益增长,以及社交媒体、特殊利益集团和选举资金等因素的影响。他认为,美国和欧洲的政治局势不同,欧洲国家需要团结一致,制定共同政策,以应对当前的挑战。他还分析了美国经济实力强大,但其国内政治和经济面临挑战。他认为爱尔兰的经济发展模式值得借鉴,一些中欧国家经济发展迅速,这与它们的历史背景和发展战略有关。他认为英国等欧洲国家需要改变思维方式,才能应对当前的挑战,并指出缺乏变革是英国等欧洲国家面临的一个问题。他还分析了英国大学毕业生的债务负担比美国大学毕业生高,以及美国大学的捐赠资金规模远大于英国大学的原因。他认为英国需要采取激进的政策来解决其面临的经济问题,并指出英国政府需要采取大胆的政策,以应对当前的挑战。他还认为英国需要培养更多优秀人才,以应对未来的挑战,并分析了英国在国防和科技领域进行战略投资的必要性。 Emily Maitlis: 她对西方国家未来地位下降的担忧,涵盖了社会经济、民主等多个方面。她提出,亚洲国家在经济、科技和国际事务中日益重要的地位,可能导致西方国家影响力下降。她还担忧西方国家在未来20年里,在经济、气候和民主对话中,其相关性可能会大大降低。她还分析了2024年全球许多执政党失去权力的现象,以及经济状况对选民投票行为的影响。她还谈到选民对执政党的不满情绪日益增长,以及社交媒体、特殊利益集团和选举资金等因素的影响。她认为,美国和欧洲的政治局势不同,欧洲国家需要团结一致,制定共同政策,以应对当前的挑战。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why might the West become less relevant in the global narrative by 2025?

The West's relevance could diminish due to the rise of populous and economically powerful countries in Asia, coupled with the growing influence of autocratic regimes. The sheer weight of numbers and resources in Asia, including manufacturing dominance and natural resource control, positions it as a more significant player in global economic and political conversations.

What role do demographic changes play in the shift of global power?

Demographic changes, particularly declining fertility rates in the West, are contributing to a scenario where Western nations are not producing enough of the next generation to sustain their influence. This contrasts with Asia's growing population, which amplifies its economic and political clout.

How does China's manufacturing growth impact global economic dynamics?

China's manufacturing sector has grown from 6% of global manufacturing in 2000 to an expected 50% by the end of this decade. This rapid expansion underscores China's increasing dominance in global manufacturing and its growing economic influence.

Why might democracy become less prevalent globally?

Democracy could become niche as autocratic regimes, driven by the need for stability and power retention, gain prominence. These regimes, despite their differences, share a common goal of maintaining control, which contrasts with the democratic process of regularly changing leadership.

What economic factors are driving dissatisfaction with incumbent governments globally?

Economic factors, particularly inflation and the perception of not being better off than four years ago, are leading to widespread dissatisfaction with incumbent governments. This economic discontent is a key driver of electoral outcomes, as seen in the 2024 elections.

How does social media influence electoral outcomes?

Social media amplifies dissatisfaction with incumbent governments, contributing to a fickle electorate that is easily swayed by negative narratives. Additionally, the vast amount of money spent on elections, influenced by social media campaigns, further polarizes and destabilizes democratic processes.

What challenges does Europe face in maintaining its relevance globally?

Europe faces challenges in maintaining relevance due to its inability to unite and devise common policies, especially with a war on its doorstep and the potential withdrawal of American support. The UK, outside the EU, has even less ability to influence global affairs, further diminishing Europe's role.

How does the U.S. maintain its technological and economic dominance?

The U.S. maintains its dominance through technological innovation and high per capita GDP, reaching approximately $80,000. This economic strength, combined with a focus on technology, allows the U.S. to remain a global leader despite political upheaval.

What role does education play in rebooting a nation's future?

Education is crucial for rebooting a nation's future, as it provides the foundation for innovation and adaptability. Embracing new technologies, such as augmented reality, can revolutionize learning and prepare the next generation for the challenges of the 21st century.

How does Trump's unpredictability impact global politics?

Trump's unpredictability, akin to the Mongols' strategic volatility, can be both a challenge and an opportunity. While it creates uncertainty, it also allows for the potential to drive significant changes and negotiations, particularly in geopolitical and economic spheres.

Chapters
This chapter explores the declining influence of Western nations in the global landscape, particularly in economic and political spheres. The sheer population and resource wealth of Asian nations, particularly China, are highlighted as key factors. The discussion also touches upon the varying forms of autocracy across different nations and the implications for democracy.
  • Shift of global manufacturing to China (6% in 2000 to 50% by the end of the decade)
  • Population disparity between West and Asia
  • Different forms of autocracy in various countries (China, Russia, Iran, etc.)
  • Question of democracy's future

Shownotes Transcript

We’re living in a time of upheaval. The war in the Middle East is intensifying. Russia is making gains in Ukraine. America faces an election of unparalleled importance. Climate change and AI appear on the brink of changing our world forever. How are we to make sense of the world today? Study its past, argues acclaimed historian Peter Frankopan, who returned to the Intelligence Squared stage in November 2024. 

Now that his remarkably turbulent year is almost over, attention is turning to 2025 and what lies in the months ahead for us all. Drawing on his best-selling books, *The Silk Roads *and *The Earth Transformed, *Frankopan put our current challenges and opportunities into historical perspective and sought to map out what we can expect from the world in 2025. Frankopan was in conversation with Emily Maitlis, the award-winning journalist and presenter of The News Agents podcast.

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