Gene Simmons: How is the Orchestra?
01:04:09 Share

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. What's...

Poppin' listeners. I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Want to know about the fake errors? We got them. What about a career conversation?

We've got them too. Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll get to this. We came of age and lived in the best time of the world. Period. Full stop. Not even a question. No.

Hey, welcome to Literally. Wow. I mean, today, if you'd have told me and when I was a young ingenue, fledgling, teeny bopper, cover of 16 magazine kind of guy, I would have told you.

that I would have Gene Simmons from Kiss on my podcast, I would have been like, no way. And today is the day. We have, I mean, there's nobody like him. Nobody like Gene. And the day has come. We're going to rock and roll all night, right now. Gene, how are you? I am deliriously happy. I'd like to start off by saying you're a powerful and attractive man. Oh.

Coming from you, I never thought I'd... If you'd have told me when I was 15 listening to I Want to Rock and Roll All Night that this day would come, I wouldn't have believed it. Well, I've obviously followed you and so have quite a few other people on the planet. I think we might have shared a couple of magazine covers in the day. 16 Magazine. I have a feeling there are some KISS... I'll bet you they're out there. I have a feeling...

that we might have been pinups together back in the day. Oh, yeah. There was a time, of course, any... What's 15 to 25-year-old? What's that called? Yeah, what would that be? Gen Z, X, Y, Z, P, T, A, I, O, U. What is it? Let's say it's Gen Z. Gen Z, yeah. Gen Z kids, there was once a magazine made from a paper product. You didn't have to go beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

And you went to a candy store, they used to call them, and pick up these things called magazines. And your favorite whoever was on the cover. And 16 Magazine was one of the big ones, but hardly anybody was 16 who read it. No. And you guys were one of the only bands. It was always like actors and like pretty boy actors. And then you guys. In fact, it never occurred to me how unique it was. But look.

But looking back on it, it was you guys. There's nobody else. They didn't have the Eagles on there or anybody. I mean, maybe Rick Springfield at a certain point. But Rick started off as an actor. Yeah, that's right. And pretty. He's still very pretty. He looks great, dude. I saw something of him on TikTok this week. He's shred. He and Sting, whatever they're doing, I want.

I think it's Satan. Is it? I suspect. Because Sting will tell you it's yoga. I'm like, okay, sure. I might have known. I've run into him a few times over the decades. And he and I share, I think we're the same age. I'm 104. He and I share a similar background. We were both sixth grade teachers. No way. Before we started school.

Rocking her older. I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, that explains the song Don't Stand So Close to Me that Sting wrote, right? Maybe. Young teacher, subject of schoolgirl fantasy. I mean, I didn't know that he was the young teacher in that until this very moment. Yes, he was, for a short time. I think the people they get in front of kids, yes, want to impart knowledge and all of that, but it's tough in this world where everybody's got something to say to get it

quiet room of people of any age will actually listen to what you have to say. Well, I have so much to talk to you about. First of all, you have such a varied life and career and have been around for so long and so many different iterations.

It's kind of amazing. I mean, in doing my sort of research on you, I came across stuff that was like, wait, what? Here's my favorite, apropos of nothing. In 1989, you managed the recording side of Liza Minnelli's entry into mainstream pop. I was hanging out with Liza in that era. You've got to tell me about all of this. Well, in New York, for those folks who've never been there, especially during the

70s, 80s, 90s, but closer to the 70s, 80s, everybody went out every night. It's not like LA where, sure enough, there are lots of celebrities and stars and all that. But the streets, as you well know, roll up and shut down at 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock. Because a lot of these folks

Have to get up at the crack of dawn to go to work. New York was, you know, they only come out at night and everybody dressed up. And there were some clubs, as you well know, that didn't get started until, oh, I don't know, one or two in the morning. Give me some names of the clubs if you remember them, because this will be amazing. Well, obviously Studio 54 was the big one, but they were private clubs with no names. Hmm.

X-Bar, places like that so that you can avoid the liquor license thing. People would open up their homes and, you know, semi-club, semi, so-and-so, so you could serve alcohol through the night. So in the days, here, let me take

these things off. I wear these things even at night because, you see, Rob, the sun never sets on planet cool. That's the thing you have to remember. My eyes have become still sensitive to light over 50 years of touring that I put those things on. But at any rate,

I never went out and tried to hang out wherever celebrities were because, you know, I appreciate the art of it. We love movies and music and all that. But, you know, oh, my God, that thing never appealed to me. I was always much more interested in raw power and wealth. That's actually true. When you're a kid, you want to say, I want to be rich and famous. I didn't come up with it. And the Chates, of course. I just work here. And so...

In the early days when I lived or went out with Cher, she was sort of the... I mean, there was the Holy Trinity. It was Cher, there was Diana, and Liza. Yes. That was the Holy Trinity for certainly lots of folks of all sexual decisions and so on. 100%. And for a while, I lived with Cher, then with Diana, and then wound up managing Liza. So...

When she would take me, first time I ever went to CEO of 54, she took me. I didn't know anything. And over there, I sort of got to hang with, I don't know, name a name, anybody who cared a name. Andy Warhol? Sure. Capote, everybody. And that was the watering hole.

for people who, not ordinary people, extraordinary people, or at least they thought so. But it bears noting, even the Pope has to poop. Everybody's kind of the same. So, to make a long story short, on one occasion, Cher took me to a birthday party for a guy named Halston, who young people may not know, but he was a powerhouse

in the fashion world, really changed women's fashion. And he had an amazing building in the early days that he owned right in the middle, right off Park Avenue. And she told me back then, we're going to a party and it's going to be Halston. I said, who's that? I don't know. And when we went in, the place was filled with anybody who cared to name. There was a very famous Russian singer

ballet guy named Nuriev who was there and just everybody you can name and everybody's sort of I'm a big fan of yours and I'm a big fan of yours kind of I was just sitting around watching it and then Liza came up bless her uh Cher and I were sitting together and in front of us she broke into a song you know uh I think it was something like my old piano

And that was my first meeting with her. And then through the years, you know, socially kept in touch. And I think she came to see one of the shows that our band was playing. And then I think over a bite to eat, she sort of went into the what's Madonna got that I don't have. I said, actually, nothing. You've been around longer. You know, you have something. You just have to find the right niche.

so that you don't come off like you're trying to do the thing that somebody else is doing, you know, to get your own fingerprint. The uniqueness of an artist has to do more with whether they're instantly recognizable. And then you've got to be at the right place at the right time and have the right thing. Yep. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. And then she turned around and said, why don't you manage me? I said, well, okay, what's your record company? And she didn't have one.

She didn't sell enough records and all that. So we talked about it and I said, you know, you got to get a modern record and all that. So if you're agreeable to that, you know, coming up, this is it, the Lion of Light, you know, that Broadway thing, that ain't going to work. Not with the masses. You know, people think about Broadway. Very few people go to Broadway.

It casts a much larger shadow than what it is. The masses still, and I'm one of them, still loves hamburgers and stuff no matter how many times you say cordon bleu and pronounce it correctly in just frog's legs. The world doesn't work like that. It's hamburgers, still the most popular pizza and all that. We love that.

But you're supposed to be, you know, sort of sip wine and gargle with it and all that. I don't do any of that stuff. But, you know, good luck if you want.

And she agreed, yeah, I'm going to do within the confines of who I am and all that. By the way, am I talking too much? No, are you kidding? I'm getting a Liza Minnelli kiss-adjacent Halston fucking Studio 54 story? Come on. You're saying big words like gymnasium. So I called up Walter Yednikoff, who was one of the icons. Of course, of course. Yeah, who...

at the time was the head of Columbia Epic and so on. I said, I'm managing Liza now and she's looking for a deal. She said, come on in. Very short conversation. We came in, talked a little bit. What do you want to do, Liza? I want to do a modern kind of record and all that. She said, okay, we'll sign you to Epic. Like that. Amazing. And they had an A&R guy who I had known before.

Really bright guy, Goldie. Everybody knew about him. And he came up with the idea. What happened? Well, what happened if the Pet Shop Boys, who wrote their own material, produced and wrote for Liza? And I said, great idea. A dance disco pop kind of record.

That's in a comfortable sort of area. I certainly didn't want to stick Liza in front of three guys with long hair and loud guitars. Right. Yep. Although that would be adventurous. Right. Yeah. Right. And sure enough, that record came out and was, as far as I know, the biggest record she had in her entire career. And right around that time, she became not only comeback, but bigger record.

She did, oh, I don't know, two weeks, something like that, Radio City Music Hall. Yeah, I saw her at the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah, she was big time. And as a matter of fact, it wasn't the Rat Pack, but it was Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr., who I'm proud to say had me over his house, and I heard all the war stories and all that. I went to Sammy's house with Liza. Oh, right from where the Beverly Hills Hotel is.

Yes. Yep. Did it. I took that pilgrimage with Liza. I didn't know you knew her. We had the same agent, Michael Black. And so, and then of course, you know, like you say, the Holy Trinity. I mean, you were, if you were alive in, you know, the 70s, 80s, you know, I mean, come on. That was it. And if you walked in any happy club, otherwise known as a gay club, you know,

And the talented folks there would get up on stage and do, you know, mimicry or sing the songs. It was those three ladies. That was it. Sometimes Barbara, but it was really...

Cher, Diana, and Eliza. And it's funny, I heard all the war stories. Well, I'm sure you did too with Sammy. Sammy was hilarious. Oh, what a history. Have you ever seen that video of Sammy at seven years of age at the beginning of sound? And I urge everybody to go to Google and Schmoogle and all the other button pressing platforms.

torturous devices and put in Sammy Davis Jr., seven years old, tap dancing. Right as sound was coming in, he was already in movies, singing, dancing, tap dancing, crazy. I haven't seen that. I haven't seen that. I will definitely look at that. Oh, it's amazing. So at any rate, I'm going to come. By the way, quickly, also, I urge you to Google Sammy Davis Jr. Japanese liquor commercial because that is

is unbelievable. Does he? I don't recall if Sami spoke Japanese. He doesn't? And so what he's doing is scatting. It's amazing. Amazing. Before rap, before Fatboy, before any of that. Yeah, he's beatboxing. He literally is beatboxing before it was a thing. Super cool.

If you're still paying for things like delivery, you need to hear about Walmart Plus. Walmart Plus is Walmart plus literally saving more time and money. Two things we could all use more of. Members save with free delivery plus an included paycheque.

Paramount Plus subscription plus 25% off Burger King digital orders every day. Consider this your official excuse to swing by for a snack, grab a Whopper, or just skip cooking totally. Go to walmart.com slash plus to start your free 30-day trial. $35 order minimum.

Paramount Plus Essential Plan Only. Separate registration required. Valid at participating U.S. Burger Kings and the Burger King app or bk.com for members only. 25% off, one per calendar day. Terms apply. bk.com slash terms.

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

Hey, Literally fans, Rob Lowe. I'm excited to have a great guest, Mel Robbins. If you don't know Mel's podcast, she's one of the most trusted thought leaders. She's known for sharing the tools and inspiration that you need to create a better life. The Mel Robbins podcast covers everything about relationships and psychology and her own hilarious stories. Listen to Mel's podcast wherever you get your podcasts. ♪

He taught me how to, what is it called? It goes like this. Poor, poor folks, poor black folks in the South didn't have instruments and stuff. You couldn't afford it. So you'd get a beat. Somebody would start doing something and then you'd slap your knees.

And your chest, like... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that. And he taught me how to do that. And while you're doing that, you're throwing rap rhymes. Before there was rap and hip-hop, you know. Go down the street, do what I mean. Wow. You know, you do all that stuff. It was fascinating, you know, which is obviously a reflection of where popular music came from. Black music. Rock, rock and roll, blues, jazz, rap. It's all black.

At any rate, Liza got so big, yet again, perhaps the biggest she's ever been, that she joined Sinatra and Sammy when Dean Martin... Yes.

The reunion tour. You know about that, right? Yes, of course. That was the time I knew. That was exactly the time I knew. Yeah, that was a big tour. And I'm remembering you're right. Somebody didn't do all the dates or was ill. It was Dean Martin. It was Dean. And so Liza did those dates. The Dean didn't. It was Sinatra, Liza, and Sammy. Wow.

It's a big tour. Did they film it? They must have. Is there any footage of that around? I remember seeing something, but in those days, they didn't think of licensing, merchandising, the ancillaries. No, they didn't think of it. Because the media wasn't used to putting that content on. As a matter of fact, strangely enough, when HBO first started,

People didn't quite know what to make of it because content was just sort of cut. So is it movies and all that? Ted Turner, obviously. And Kiss was the first concert that was not streamed. You know, it was like a day after we played Japan in 1977, I think it was, and broke the Beatles record, as a matter of fact. Yeah, this is the Budokan, the famous Budokan, right? Budokan.

Burokan. That's what it is. Burokan. She was this. I speak a little bit. And German and Hebrew and Hungarian. A little English. But at any rate, we were the first concert on HBO. Unbelievable. Where did the idea of painting your faces come from? Well, it's an old idea. As you know, men started wearing makeup first.

So they'll see makeup with women and all that. And women discovered a long time ago that it's actually power, whether it's sexual power or otherwise, or paint and so on. Makeup is power. You get to project something. And I learned a lot of that stuff when I studied to be a teacher because I was a teacher for a short time, as I mentioned. But anyway...

Originally, it was religious when we would howl at the moon when we were australopithecines on the plains of Africa, Australopithecus africanus, which became and began Australopithecus afarensis, as a matter of fact, which was discovered in what was then known as the Olduvai Gorge in Tanganyika by Ellis Leakey. Write that one down, kids.

I've been to the Olduvai Gorge, too. It's almost like being at Sammy's house. Yes. That would have been at Sammy's house, and everybody would come in. That would be a great show. I'd watch it. Who knows who's going to walk in through the door? Dino used to open the door on his show, and you never know who's going to be there. Or Soupy Sales, of course. But...

Strangely and interestingly, the first woman that history gives credit for wearing makeup because women weren't allowed to do anything is Cleopatra. And she was Macedonian. She was not Egyptian and in fact was related to Alexander the Great.

coming from the bloodline of Ptolemy. The rest of the folks hearing this are going to say, Gene, shut the fuck up. No, this is the best. I love this. Here's a little trivia. What was the color of

Scientists know this because sarcophaguses and all this other stuff. What was the color of the first lipstick worn by any woman that we know of? Probably Cleopatra, most likely. And what was the color of that lipstick? Ooh. We assume it's red. I'm going to say it's white.

It was green. Green. And you think it's a strange choice, but in a desert environment, green inferred life. So interesting. And you had that on your mind when you, how did you choose your particular character? Interesting word choice, character. Never thought of it that way. More persona.

Tell me what you feel the difference between character and persona is. In character, I think it's an actor. Maybe you understand this more than people on the street. A character is a mime, is a mimicry. Put on a clown outfit, well, I'm supposed to do this. And I don't want to get into Lee Strasberg and sense memory and all that kind of stuff. But a persona...

is an extension of who you are on the inside. Got it. Makes sense. Yep. So it makes dollars, actually. And so imagine you go to Western Costume, and there's all kinds of costumes hanging on the wall, and somebody invites you to a Halloween party. I'm guessing when you go down to Western Costume, is it still around, do you think?

Oh, yeah. And you walk in there, there are thousands and thousands of costumes. You may choose probably the outfit that somehow connects to who and what you are, how you feel and all that. And so one day, years before folks listening to this stream were born, 1973, maybe it was 1873.

We found ourselves four knuckleheads off the streets of New York in a rat-infested loft, a fire trap, actually. And somebody, I can't take the credit, said, hey, let's go down to Woolworths, which was one of these big stores where you could buy anything. I used to go down there and buy plastic things.

ice cubes with flies in them as gags. I remember those. You put it in a girl's drink and that's what you want to see. Or whoopee cushions. You know, tell a 20-year-old what a whoopee cushion is. They've never heard of a whoopee cushion. What a whoopee cushion. We've had so much fun. Now it's everything serious and beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

No, we, and we'll get to this. We lived in, we came of age and lived in the best time of the world, period. Full stop. No, you would imagine living in an alternate universe pre-AIDS after women got comfortable being on the pill, you could. Right. And I know you famously never did any of this.

So this isn't part of your thing. But when you thought Coke was good for you. Never been higher drunk. I know you haven't. I know. Never smoked. I know you haven't. That's for losers. Everybody who goes to the dark side comes out and does the, I can't believe I did that and all that stuff. I was just never interested in it. At any rate, what I was going to say is in those days,

You could wake up with somebody whose name you never bothered to learn. Everybody was having fun. It was all innocent. And what does it all mean? Do I have my mother's hips? Shut up.

You're alive and then you die. That's all there is. And while you're here, try to be nice to people. Maybe leave the world a little bit better than when you came into it. But that's it. We're all just passing through this idea of, you know, let's get deep and shed and just have some frozen yogurt and chase the girls. That's it. And then die. That might be one of the best sentences, best three sentences. Have some fro-yo, chase some girls and die.

That's a good bumper sticker. The last one, you have no choice. Yeah, that's right. It just comes in. Okay, so wait, you're at Woolworths. Yeah, so we go down to Woolworths, and I have to tell you, there's no mastermind, no flick of the switch. And, you know, oh, we know what to do. It's like kids playing in a mud puddle. You're just having fun. Yeah.

Or other kids, like my beloved Shannon, if you're young enough and you poop in the bathtub, you take your poop and you start wiping it on the bathroom wall, of course. Because that is the ultimate artistic expression. Before you learn how to do anything, you just do it. And we felt like that. It was...

We already had a record contract with Epic called Wicked Lester, and Paul and I, Paul Stanley, fired everybody else because we just instinctively knew we wouldn't go the distance, that it was just going to be another band. Great bands like Doobie Brothers and the Three Dog Night and that kind of stuff, but you could interchange the members and you wouldn't care. We wanted to be unique, like the Beatles on steroids.

As soon as you saw the Beatles, it's a very strange thing. Hindsight's 20-20 and all that. Looking back on it now, it was such a complete invention. Yes, the music was phenomenal and all that. But as soon as you saw them, it looked like they always belonged together and that there was a Beatle mother involved.

You couldn't see them in any other band. And I love The Temptations and The Four Tops and lots of other bands, but you couldn't take one guy, stick him in another band. Not The Beatles. It was the most complete, merchandised, and licensed entity

And of course, the musicals, Phenomenon of Personality, just unbelievable stuff. And that was the template. We wanted to be the Beatles on steroids. Of course, we couldn't shine their shoes or anything. And I remember we bought clown makeup and I bought black lipstick. Who knows why? Paul Stanley got some red lipstick.

And we all had long hair and all that. Why? Because we were supposed to. I don't know why. And we bought hairspray so we could really kind of tease it up and do all that stuff. And found ourselves in front of two people

four-foot-high mirrors, and it gets warped like a freak house so that your nose gets bigger and all that. And I remember all four of us were putting on the makeup, and nobody told anybody what to do. It just happened. And then I remember turning around, all of us, and

looking at each other. And I don't know if epiphany is the right word. It's just kind of like, what is that? So each guy, just stream of consciousness kind of started to, you know, without any rules, there's no manager, there's no mastermind. It just happened. And pretty much the makeup that went on, it just happened. And before...

Before cell phones, before digital anything. Transistor radios were just coming in. It was 1972. And before MTV, before any of that. You couldn't get on the radio if you played guitar and everything. Within a year and a half, we had no hit records. Within a year and a half, we're headlining Anaheim Stadium and started to play stadiums. It just...

It became a 1974, January, the first record came out. And by 1977, 78, and 79, there used to be a thing still is called the Gallup Poll. And they would get a sense of what people liked.

Kiss was the number one band three years in a row. Second band was The Beatles, then Led Zeppelin and then The Bee Gees. We were selling millions and millions of dollars of merchandise where the other bands thought that it was incredible. You know, you lose your credibility. I didn't care about that. Just make me lots of money and

maybe a few girls. That's kind of it. And we let 20th century Fox take over licensing and merchandising. And in 1979, the number one

licensing and merchandising brand was Star Wars, and number two was Kiss. I remember the dolls. I remember all the merchandises everywhere. Oh, I've got to do a joke because I've done it before. We've literally had thousands, and continue, by the way, to have thousands and thousands of licensed products, everything literally from Kiss condoms to Kiss caskets. We'll get you coming and we'll get you going. Ba-di-bum! How...

Okay, so, and also I think the pyrotechnics, I remember, because I remember hearing about you guys. I remember like discovering Kiss like everybody did. And also part of it was you have to see them live. Everybody would talk about the show. That's right. You got to see it live so you can make more money. And by the way, if you've noticed that I have no compunction, another big word like gymnasium, I have no problem being completely honest about

that the main appeal for me, not being born in America, I wanted to fit in. And I didn't know how, I mean, I had to learn the language and I didn't know how not to be judged because we're always, you know, like afraid of that. And fame seemed to be one way to do that. Plus you get a lot more attention from the opposite sex. But it was clear to me that the American dream had to do success meant money.

And I've written a few business books along the way and all that kind of stuff. And we are very self-conscious of earning our own money and doing really well. Yeah, there's like a Protestant guilt around it or something. I have none of that. The idea that you're worth a billion dollars and you're walking around with ripped jeans.

If my mother saw me walking around with the kneecaps of my jeans ripped, she said, you're not leaving the house. People are going to think you're poor. Yeah. And of course, those ripped jeans cost $1,500 and all that because they were ripped just so.

And I'm wearing one of this thing, which is $1,500. It's got flowers and everything on it. But growing up, you'd never wear dungaree stuff. It was like when nobody was looking when you go out to play baseball. So I've never had any problems with any of that. Not interested in hippies or too progressive. I don't care. Laissez-faire. Live your life.

Believe whatever you want to live. Just please get out of the way. I want to reach the top of Mount Olympus. And every day I get up and try to do that. And that was a part of, that was a big part of KISS. Even as like a teenager who loved music, still do, there was a sense that you guys did

Didn't give a fuck. Nope. And that flew in the face of, you'd listen, you'd do it. I also love the Eagles. And you would hear Don Henley speak. Yep. And bro, that's the, he's definitely delivering a different message. I'll put it that way. Well, there is your art, whatever it is you do, whether you paint or write books and sing songs. Yeah.

silly songs or football anthems or whatever, you know, whatever it is that you do. And then during that process, some artists like to wax poetic and prolific about what it all means, what I thought, what was my sort of inspiration. And I'll never forget when I was, I was such a major Beatle fan and continue to be,

and read everything about it. And they asked Lennon in particular, what does I am the walrus mean? I am you as you are me. It's fascinating, poetic, all that kind of stuff. But you can't make heads or tails about what it is. It's like an impressionistic painting. And he literally said, oh, I don't know. I just like the way the words

rolled off my mouth, nothing. And Leonard McClartney would just sit there and moan, June spoon, okay, that sounds good, and not spend too much time doing that. And it sort of gave me this, Paul and I shared the same idea and ideal. Let's not try to impress anybody. Let's just do what we secretly really want.

Be rich and famous. That really is it. And yeah, that's what it really is. And I've heard actors talk about, I want to be respected for that and awards and all. You can't pay your rent with Academy Awards. And it bears noting that the biggest stars of the planet forever have always been

what I call devotees of hamburgers and the masses. The biggest star, Schwarzenegger and Stallone and now The Rock. It's just that mainstream thing because I think people in the arts forget possibly

that the rest of the world goes to work at jobs they hate, or at least not like, just to get the money at the end of the week to be able to put a roof over there and feed your family. And then when they have a little spare time, they want to watch a Rob Lowe movie and not be reached to, or not have somebody in the arts get up on an interview and

and pontificate about the heaviness of what it all means. And Bob Dylan, who everybody idolized and lionized about the depth of his stuff, to this day, Bob, well, kind of, Bob invented himself. I invented myself. Robert Zimmerman didn't sound cool to him, so he picked a name. I was born by Ian Vitz. By the way, the reason I mentioned Bob is

Bob came over to the house and we wrote some songs together. Yeah. Wow. Just kind of ghetto. Everybody's just a person. You may get some more attention, but you and I and very few others on the planet are the luckiest people on two legs because we get to do stuff we like and we get hideously overpaid for it. Yeah. Yeah.

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.com slash results.

LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

Hey, Literally fans, Rob Lowe. I'm excited to have a great guest, Mel Robbins. If you don't know Mel's podcast, she's one of the most trusted thought leaders. She's known for sharing the tools and inspiration that you need to create a better life. The Mel Robbins podcast covers everything about relationships and psychology and her own hilarious stories. Listen to Mel's podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

You know the Beverly Hills Blues? No, but I love that title, Beverly Hills Blues. The Beverly Hills Blues. My lippo is late. I was going to scat that one with you, man. I was going to start doing... Oh, it's called Hambone. That's what it was. Hambone. And it was a song. Hambone, Hambone, have you heard? Bob's going about me, Mott and Burt. What does that mean? Nothing. It just rhymes.

Sounds good. Hambone. Sounds good. Have you heard? Pop's going to buy me a Mockingbird. And if that Mockingbird don't sing, Pop's going to buy you a diamond ring. Hambone. Now, I got another. So you and Shannon have been together for how many years? 41. 41. That's amazing. I met her when she was one. See what I did there, girls? I have to be specific about that, what together means.

I met her in 1984. She was the Playmate of the Year, and I met her at the Playboy Mansion. I was going to say. Yeah. How did you and I, how did we not? Everything that you bring up, I know, we just were like two ships passing in the night. 84 was my first time at the mansion. Oh, I thought that's when you were born.

I knew. So there was a thing called... Somebody might have been born that night, for all I know. There was a thing called Midsummer Night's Dream that half used to do. And you'd have, you know, 100 guys, producers, directors, whatever it is, and 300 chicks, you know, dressed in very little. Yep. The guys would come in pajamas or underwear, so, you know, not a lot of clothing.

It was a pajama party. It was an actual pajama party. Well, some of the girls had art painted on their bodies and that was it. And I hate that when that happens. And I went there. I never wore pajamas because for most of my life, I slept naked. I don't know why, which is a hideous sight. You don't want to see that. And I bought a pair of silk pajamas. Unfortunately, I didn't spend a lot of time. I just said, okay, I'll take that. And they were

I'm 6'2 and 240 pounds. So they were really tight, so tight you can guess my religion. See what I did there? And I met her. I want to tell you a quick story because it's insane. So at the time, I was seeing Diana, Diana Ross. And I was lucky enough to

to be asked to be the bad guy in a movie movie called runaway with michael crichton writing and directing and all that and we had a weekend that was off so i asked the director we're shooting in vancouver can i i've got some friends in la miss january and this february whatever who invited me to go to the playboy mansion and he goes yeah go ahead and take off you know we'll

resume yourself on Tuesday. As it happened, August 25th, 1984 was also my birthday. So I said, yeah, I'll fly to LA and be with these chicks. So they took me to the mansion.

And I'll make the story short. When I saw a guy named Richard Perry, actually a record producer. I used to spend a lot of time in Perry's pub. Yes. Who actually introduced me. I was busy with the two girls and he brought Shannon and her sister Tracy over and they both wound up on the covers of Playboy together. And he goes, Shane, here's somebody you should meet.

So I had to excuse myself, you know, from the other group. We started talking and I'm fascinated by her. And she came from Canada, big family and all that. Didn't seem like, you know, hey, let's get high. None of that stuff. It was just very, first of all, she was stunning. Yeah. And she was lifted and separated and pointed in my general direction, if you must know. And in a very short time, she took me by the hand and pulled me inside the

You have her thing. And there was a bookshelf, and you may know about this, and she opened this kind of like secret James Bond thing, and the bookshelf door opens, and we go downstairs, and there was either a pool table or something, but there wasn't a lot of room. Now, in my usual way of doing things, this opportunity knocks. I don't want to be rude, but if there was an opening, I'd probably have a stethroposition.

So we go downstairs and I didn't, we just talked and I was fascinated by her, the beauty and all that. I remember at this time, I'm 84, I'm still with Diana. I get fascinated by this girl. I said, I'm going to fly you to New York. We're going to talk. We have to talk. If something's going on, I'm not...

I'm not sure of myself what's going on here. Because most of this stuff, it was just meant nothing and I didn't care, just having a good time alive. So I get really connected with, I don't know how else to say it, my heart, which I never thought about. Being an only child and my dad ran out on us when I was six or seven. So just my mother and I. So I decided I'm going to spend time with this girl, but I wanted to do it upfront. So I called Diana and it was a horrible phone call.

I'd like to be up front. I don't want to have you read about it in Star Magazine or any of these publications, but I'm going to start seeing, you know, this girl. It was not a happy conversation and stuff. And so a few weeks later, I went back in L.A. and we're at the Lear Mitosh Hotel, as a matter of fact. I don't know why I remember this. And the phone rings. Mr. Simmons, we have a woman who claims to be Diana Ross on the phone with you. No, no, I'll put her through.

And the conversation, I've said this story before. I'll never forget this. How are you? I'm fine. I'm so sorry, but it happened. I didn't plan it. This girl that you told me about, is her name Shannon? Yeah. Shannon Tweed. She's blonde and tall, about six feet tall. Yeah, that's her. Are you still with her? Yeah. Yeah, I am. Well, yeah.

I don't know how to tell you this, but she's my sister-in-law. What? Yeah. Unbeknownst to me, Shannon's sister, Tracy, was secretly married to Chico Ross, Diana's brother. That's insane. I'd never do that. Insane. Now, did that make Diana feel better or worse? You know, sometimes people get hurt.

And even if it's unintentional, I don't want to hurt anybody. We're all just passing through when you try to be. And I don't know what the big deal about me is anyway, but we all make decisions about our life. And sometimes even your mother and father get hurt by the decisions you make. I want you to be a doctor. No, I want to stick out my tongue and be it.

Weird. I know. Did your mom live to see the height of Kiss? Oh, yeah. She was my mother. Your mom was a Holocaust survivor, right? She was 14 years old in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany during World War II. And my mother witnessed and barely survived what I hope nobody has to go through.

She saw our entire family. I never met grandmothers or grandfather. They were all wiped out in the camps. My mother saw her mother holding the hand of her mother, her grandmother, and walked to the gas chambers, yeah, at 14.

And when we put the band together, I mean, my mother always was afraid. I don't want you to be poor. I don't want, don't depend on anybody. Make money, you know, make money as a way to be safe. Yes. From the world. Because without that, your, so money was the armor for people who came from Europe and Africa and anywhere else, money. And,

So I made a deal with her. I'm going to be in a rock band. You can't do this seriously. And her thick Hungarian accent, you play with the orchestra and now you don't make money like that. And I said, I'll make a deal with you. I'm going to get my degree, Bachelor of Arts in Education. I'll get a job as a teacher. And I did in Spanish Harlem. And I'll have the band and other jobs and all that. And that's exactly what happened. And after that,

I quit teaching. I just, you know, 12-year-old kids, not easy. I worked for the Puerto Rican Interagency Council in New York as the assistant to the director in a government research project called Improved Services to Puerto Ricans in the Northeastern USA and Puerto Rico, a lot of stuff.

and delis and all that and at the same time trying to do the band the band was put together in six months and within a year and a half we're playing stadiums with no hit records no singles it just the groundswell it just happened and whenever we would play in the new york area my mother was always there doing you know my hand gesture which by the way kids

In sign language, I'm with the Dalai Lama, and we're both doing this when I explain to His Holiness what this means. This means, I love you. It ain't the devil's sign. It's nothing. I wish more people would do that to each other instead of this. I have no idea what this means. It comes from the English, which means... The peace sign. Yeah. Which originally came from the long bow, the oxen.

the archers would show their two fingers to the French. Meaning they'd be able to hit them off because the longboats were six feet tall. So the French would cut off the fingers and the ones that still had them would say, I've still got my two fingers.

You're going to die. And then they changed it to the peace sign. And then it became the peace sign. Wow. You got to stop me when I go off on these tangents. No, this is why you're you. Love this. Are you kidding me? My mother, God bless her, lived to be 94 years old. That's great. She continues to be my moral compass. This ideal of

Every day above ground is a good day. And whatever it is that you have to complain about, I've got a bad hair day. Of course, every day I've got a bad hair day or, you know, anything is nothing. Her life experience tells you what life could be like. You're in America. Nobody's trying to kill you. You can think whatever you want and you have all the opportunity in the world and, you know, on and on. The American dream, I'm living proof of it.

Somebody gave me this watch, which you could buy a house with. I don't care. It's in America. And my mother, God bless her, could never understand where I worked, where's the office, and who pays you, and what do you make a week? Because I said...

Go buy any house you want, any price, anything. Go buy. I did that a few times. You want this? You want a car? And she just didn't understand. You know, I'd show her a check in those days. Checks were the thing. And there were a lot of zeros on it. My mother didn't understand what the zeros meant. You know, she came up the hard way and didn't go to school very long. And then the Nazis just destroyed the world as we know it. And.

It just befuddled her. How is the orchestra? The band is fine, mom. Oh, that's amazing. How is the orchestra? And my mother was relentless. We were, my hand to God, this is not an exaggeration. We were in the early days, we're going out there and taking puddle jumpers, single prompt planes to get to these small towns and

so that we can have a little bit more sleep instead of doing the tour bus and all that, because we were playing six days a week. We could go from small town to small town, and these things could easily fall out of the sky. And we're in, never forget this, a small town, can't remember anything,

early morning, going to get the new puddle jumper, and they wouldn't let us get on because you look outside and it's just one guy. They always do that sound. And sure enough, dark clouds coming. You can't take off. So we're sitting there, one guy with a microphone. And the phone rings. We're in the middle of nowhere. And the guy goes, yeah, okay.

Any one of you guys, Gene? It's my mother who found out she was watching the news and something about Ohio and hurricanes or tornadoes and stuff. And she found that little, as they say in Germany, Faschdunk in the airport. And I had to, I'm okay, mom. Yeah, it's fine. You know, like this kind of thing. Embarrassed me in front of

Everybody, yeah. So she's that woman. I know exactly what that is. Relentless. Relentless. Yeah, to be on the side. You know, I've always felt sorry. I wanted to apologize to whoever dared sit next to my mother right on my side, elevated, because for the whole show, she'd be elbowing them. You know, doing that's not going to get children.

Oh, it's nothing like mothers without them. If you go, I did written some books and papers and stuff. And there's a thing about even psychos and mass murderers and all that. And the ones that eventually get the chair, a very strange thing happens. You know what they talk about before they die? Their mother.

They apologized to their mother, predominantly. Interesting. Yeah, they're aware that after all that love and attention and all that kind of stuff, they disappointed their mother. And I'm clear the reason I never got high, never smoked, nothing up my nose, nothing ever. And I know people nowadays just say, well, everybody gets high. Nope.

I was not, never got drunk. I have wines and vodkas that I make, you know, under, I own the money bag logo all over the place, but we have restaurant chains, all kinds of stuff, but I never smoked nothing. And I know that at the core of it, I would never be able to forgive myself for disappointing my mother. I don't have that right. Not after the life experience.

that she led. It's funny, I keep talking about my mother like she's still here. I always do. Amazing. It's amazing. What a life. What a life you've lived. What a life she lived. She would have been amazing to have met. I can imagine being next to your mom at a KISS concert. So great. So great. There was a book that was put out by a good writer, and it's a good, interesting idea. The Jewish Mother's Hall of Fame.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And this guy wrote for The New Yorker, and he thought, gee, that's an interesting idea. After he interviewed all of our mothers in the band for a cover story on People, 1980.

And he was so fascinated by that idea. He said, perhaps it's cultural. In either case, the stories were interesting. So he interviewed, you know, Barbara Streisand about her mother and so on and so forth. The book was dedicated to my mother. Wow. Because on the day that he, and I was there, on the day that he came to visit her, you know, in her brand new home and all that, and neither my mother and I knew how to drive. I didn't start driving a car until I was 34. Wow.

you know, in New York, subways or whatever. And my mother spoke halting English, very phonetic. And there were always balloons in the house and like childlike letters, you know, with somebody's turn five, you have like funny bozo the clown lettering. To my favorite son, Haim Kamm, you know, my Hebrew name with Hungarian ending. Favorite, I don't want to tell you how she spelled it,

And son was S-U-N. And, you know, just like a phonetic. So when he walked in, he's seeing these balloons. And the guy, the crux of the conversation was, Florence, you're having a party? Yes. Oh, is it about your son? Yes. Is it his birthday? Of course. So he goes, when was he born? She goes, August 25th.

He says, "But it's November. I thought August 25 was his birthday." Every day is his birthday.

yeah so he just like would toss these lines at her it made perfect sense to her i remember standing with my mother in front of the judge because we were becoming citizens i became a natural citizen after a few years they ask you a few questions and i didn't think it was funny until much later and the judge says you know we have uh

The Senate and the other, the House of Representatives. Okay, that's close enough. And together they're called what? The Congregation. He goes, that's right. That's close enough. Who was your first president? And she says, Kennedy. He goes, okay, no, no, I'm going to, this is going to be like the cornball answer, but it's true for her.

No, no. Who was the first president? She goes, Kennedy. No, that's not right. It's George Washington. And she says, Washington was your first president. My first president was Kennedy. Amazing.

And she also failed her driving test five times. They were two cars. I bought her two cars. Couldn't drive it on the last. How did you, well, how did you fail a fifth time? She goes, I'm in Hungarian. One time I kept, you know, she's explaining to me in Hungarian. I'm fluent. We're going down the street a few blocks from the new house I bought her and in the guy's car. And

You know, I listen very carefully to the man. And when we get to the corner, I slowly stop. I'm going, that's right. That's what you're supposed to do. And then the man says, okay, turn left, he says. So I want to make sure. I said, you want me to turn left? And he said, right. So I turned right. Your mom. I'm so glad that you have all those great memories.

It's amazing. This has been, I talk about memories. This has been a great walk down memory lane, but you're still killing it, man. And that's what I love. You're still like, you know, doing your thing. You've got your tour, Gene Simmons band. You've got so much going on. You're launching your film company, CEO of Arclight Films. You're going to do 20, you've got so much going on. Well, Arclight is a sales entity. My partner is a guy named Gary Hamilton. Our first film is a big budget film.

action thriller called Deepwater with Sir Ben Kingsley and Aaron Eckhart and Rennie Harlan directing. It's a real good film coming out shortly. A second film called The Canyon. There's a lot of stuff, restaurant chains, all kinds of stuff. I'm busier now. Kiss, by the way, was sold to an amazing entity called Pop House.

who are responsible for that ABBA show that was in England and London that everybody's talking about where you swear they're live in front of you. Well, the technology has grown advanced so far that I can't say too much about it, but

The end of Kiss, touring Kiss, is really the beginning in the same way that a caterpillar looks like its life is over, goes into a cocoon like a casket, and then what comes out is the evolution of this living thing. So the end of Kiss is really the beginning of it because we're no longer going to tour as Kiss. But imagine you are...

in a huge facility with lots of people, and then the walls disappear. It's difficult to talk about it in the same way that if you try to explain to people when you put on virtual glasses and you look down on the floor and you're falling in a cavern and there are pterodactyls coming at you or you're in space or whatever, and no matter where you look, you're in that world so much

that you know your center of gravity is off now imagine that in four different worlds of kiss with no glasses i am there for it so we i am so we spent a lot of time at uh george lucas's place and by the way george stole our nanny he heard about her and called me and said i want

My kids need it. Good, Nanny, I hear you got one. I go, what? That's another story. And we spent a lot of time filming motion capture. Yeah. So imagine in this thing, when it finally comes to fruition, 27 or 28, late 2027, in two areas in the world, so people around the world can see it, it'll be amazing.

Unlike anything anybody's ever seen. In the days, I can only point to, imagine the silent films and you're seeing flicking and all that stuff. And then you walk in.

The lights go out. And for no reason whatsoever, you're seeing a 3D. You put on glasses. You're in a 3D IMAX movie. I know I'm taking things out of time. No, but I understand. Yeah. You guys are the perfect band for it, too. I thank you again. This was absolutely amazing. My mind is...

tumulted with so many of the imagery you brought up. I mean, not the least of which is your amazing mother. Thank you for sharing that with us. You've been very kind, and I just want to get cornball and teary-eyed for a second. And again, Americans are self-conscious. I want to talk about America for a second. I mean, heartfelt appreciation. I get choked up for having...

for the existence of an idea like America, the most wonderful, kind people on the face of the planet, and the fact that America allowed my mother and I to come in and been accepted. I would understand if there was an opportunity, and your family's been here for generations and generations, I would understand somebody would say, please step aside. I go first because I've been here. But no, America is

shockingly says you can be first generation legal as long as you work hard you can go right to the top no limits and I'm living proof of it and I'm forever grateful my mother used to cry at the end of the night we'd watch TV together I was nine years old I don't know I didn't understand why my mother was crying and at the end when it was black and white TV the flag

The flank would billow and then it would go black. I love this. I hope everybody hears this podcast. It's a great message and it's the truth, but you've lived it. You've lived it. God bless you. Certainly have been blessed. You're the best, man. Thank you so much. You're very kind. And thanks for...

letting me suck up all the oxygen in the room. That's why we love you. We don't want wallflower, Gene Simmons. Who wants that? That's not going to make any money. Settle down. Get excited. By the way, how old are you now? 60. Little putz. I know. 75, bitch. Get up every day, pump that fart, chase the girls, eat good food, work hard, be kind to people, and then you die. I mean, come on, man. The man, Gene Simmons.

Give Shannon a hug for me. I will. I'll be watching. I will be in 2027. I'll be front row for whatever you guys are cooking up. Thanks, brother. Appreciate you. See you next time. Thanks, man. I love that message. I mean, when you hear somebody like that talk about what the American dream really is, you know it's not bullshit. I mean, you just know it isn't.

And then, of course, the outrageous part of Gene is so great. Oh, my God, that was unbelievable. That's one of the reasons I do my podcast. I got a big smile on my face. I learned something. Had some good heartfelt stuff today. I hope you loved it as much as I did. By the way, Gene's touring worldwide with the Gene Simmons Band. So if he comes to your town, hopefully I'm not a puddle jumper.

Go see them. And I will see you next week on Literally. Don't forget to subscribe and don't forget to give us a nice review on Apple and all that stuff. That really helps us. And I'll see you next time. Appreciate you.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Growl. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.