Magic Johnson: Showtime
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Hello. Hello. What's up, man? Ha!

Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad that you're here to do this. We got too much history, brother. Dude, as we walk through memory lane in a moment, people, I think, are going to be like, wait, what? I know. I know. It's going to trip them out. Welcome to Literally. Week two, we survived it. We survived week one. I think I'm going to keep this up. I think I'm going to...

Continue this. How about them apples? And one of the, and thanks for coming back by the way. But I could not think of a, of a better person to, to start us off on week two for, for any number of reasons. The length of our friendship, what he has accomplished in his life, the joy that he's brought to so many people. Also to be able to talk about this moment in our country that we're going through and,

You know, his perspective and my perspective, having been friends and so close for so long and watching our city, Los Angeles, change. And it's the perfect time for the perfect guest. And I cannot wait for you guys to listen to me and my old friend, the 6'9 point guard out of East Lansing, Michigan, Irving, Magic Johnson.

I just told your producers how we were hot at the same time. We grew up basically at the same time, right? You and acting and me on the court. And we were the hot throbs at the same time, too. It's like, it's crazy. Just everything is crazy, which is crazy good. You know, not crazy bad, but crazy good. I mean, even down to being two kids from the Midwest. You're in Michigan and I'm Ohio. Oh.

Oh, man. Isn't that crazy? Well, that's why we made it, because our work ethic and then our values, you know, we never changed even with the success where a lot of people in this city, this town can destroy you, you know? I think you're right. We both married great women. Yeah.

Oh, hey, we kept it going, man. How is Cookie? You know I love Cookie. How is she doing? Yeah, she's doing great, man. They blessed me yesterday with a great Father's Day, and also to you, too. I know you had a wonderful one as well. Thank you. She's doing great. And how about your wife and boys, everybody? Are they all good? Everybody's good. Yeah, it's funny. My

I became an empty nester only to have COVID bring my boys home again, which is great. And it's been, it's been fantastic. You know, we've, we've, you know, bonded a ton as a family and, and Cheryl had a birthday the day before Father's Day. So it was a big, big family, big family weekend. Nice. Nice. And you can just do it right there at home. Yeah. That's very cool. And this has been fun being able to do the podcast because I,

Because I get to do it here and, you know, all of us. I mean, you're so damn busy all the time. I mean, I don't even know how to keep up with you. All the fingers and thank God you have such big hands because your fingers are in every pot. Hey, that's both of us. I do look on my TV screen and see your commercials. So look who's talking. Look who's talking.

Hey, you know, a guy's got to do what a guy's got to do. That's why I love it. And you still look the same. That's crazy. That is crazy. I mean, that's what I love, too. You know, oh, man, we could talk for a day. We better get started or you and I will be – No, we're – by the way –

We'll be two hours in. Now, we're rolling. We start rolling. We start rolling. This is all good. This is what we're here for. Yes. So do you think I still look the same as when Pat Riley banned me from staying at the same hotel? Well, yeah, he banned you because, you know, he didn't want no competition. Ah! Ah!

Finally, the truth comes out. The truth comes out. He didn't want no guy looking better than him. So he said, no, Rob is here. He's got to go. He's got to go. No, you know, uh, I tell you, Rob, the thing I love about Pat Riley was, uh,

He was a stickler for his rules, and he didn't want anybody to take away the concentration of the guys, right? And it wasn't just you. Anybody else that was in that hotel had to go because he was –

He didn't even let our wives. Well, I wasn't married then. So I would say that, you know, the guy's wives stay at the hotel, any of that, you know, they stayed at another hotel. And so he wanted everybody committed 150% to winning championships, to winning those playoff games. And he was a,

tickler for that. So don't feel bad because he made the wives not stay at the same hotel as us as well.

So he couldn't have been too smart, though, if he wanted the wives to stay at the same hotel as me. I don't think that's a good plan either. In those days. I don't think he was thinking. Wait a minute, Rob Lowe? Wait a minute. I better move him twice now. Oh, my God. I had so much. I mean, listen, those years.

I don't even know where to begin about how much fun they were. I mean, I have so many memories. I have the memory of Jack Nicholson and I having to be escorted out of the Superdome, which I think you guys played the last game in what they used to call the Pontiac Superdome. I think that was one of the finals. That's right. I'm not mistaken. Yes. The Piston fans were not happy to see me at all.

Or Jack? Yes. I would say that the two super fans of the Lakers, Rob Lowe, Jack Nicholson, was not welcome at any arena when we got to the finals. Right. And so Detroit, they knew what was in store.

In terms of you. The ass whooping you were going to put on them. That's right. That's right. We were going to have to beat them. And we did that first year that we played them because we went back to back. So we won in 87. And then that year,

was 88. And so, um, so they were mad because you two were so, you, you, you both were larger than life superstars. Right. And so we're, and then we're beating the team on the court and then you just killing and taking all the attention. Oh,

Off the court, you and Jack just had all the attention of the fans. So no team love when you and Jack showed up because they knew that the fans would just go crazy over you two. And then the Lakers squad would take care of business on the court. So what a time it was, Rob.

during the run of the 80s that we had because there would never be anything like the form ever again. Ever again. For those of you, I mean, we were so lucky to have, first of all, there'll never be another owner like Dr. Buss. That's right. And I know you loved him as did I. And he created what people think of the Lakers as,

It's all still really the work of Dr. Buss. That's right. He was instrumental in bringing you out. He was instrumental. He and Jerry West. And obviously the Jerry West combination was what that was magic like you. Yes. Yes. But the the because you know why I think about this all the time. I think about the culture has changed as culture does.

And it was really emblematic of the culture at that time. That's when the Laker girls were the Laker girls. Yes. You know, this social scene. But the number one thing, and I was going to wait to talk to you about this, but I will get in. You brought it up so organically. The style of basketball was...

Basketball today is not – am I like an old man who's like on my porch going, these kids today. But tell me, basketball is different today, right? The way it's played, right? Yeah, it is different because we –

When I play, we fast breaking all the time and we were, we were the second highest scoring team in the NBA. You know, we were averaging almost 120 points a night. Amazing. And then, and, and then Showtime was created because of that fast break and because, um,

the razzle dazzle and Kareem, this guy hooked James Worthy on the wing coming in, dunking on people. Michael Cooper with the alley oops and Byron Scott with the three point shot. Kurt Rambis just...

just grabbing every rebound and outletting that pass. And, you know, Jamal Wilks with the slingshot, you know, and going in, right? Bob McAdoo with his sweet jump shot. Norm Nixon, him and I, when I first was a rookie, teaming up to dominate

any backcourt because Norm was so quick. And so I can keep going. The guys were AC Green and what he brought to the team. And so when you think about the Lakers, it was always to go out, win, but also to entertain the crowd, entertain our fans,

And we did such a wonderful job of that because that's what Dr. Buss was all about, right? Yeah. And so now it was Showtime not only on the court, but when he figured out he had a team like we had, he said he had to create Showtime off the court as well. So that's when there was no doubt.

dancing teams at that time, he created the Laker girls, right? And man, when you think about the history of the Laker girls and all these incredible women who could really dance and, and also they went on to become stars in their own right as well. It was a fantastic. And then he created the form club. So now all the, all the,

biggest celebrities led by you and Jack. And so once they saw Rob Lowe there, Jack Nicholson, then all the biggest celebrities in Hollywood wanted to be at a Laker game. And it was the thing to do because you're seeing a great team perform and you were part of that scene that was happening on

on the court and then at the forum club at halftime before the game and after the game. And Dr. Buss created that whole thing. And so what we tried to do was make sure that we attacked, attacked, attacked. We kept on the attack. And that's why people fell in love with our game is because we ran for four quarters. And we don't get to see that anymore.

You get to see, hey, they may run a couple fast breaks or they run for a quarter, but no team runs for four quarters like we did. And then you got to remember, you got to have those type of athletes and players to play that type of tempo. And then you got to have the right coach. We got to remember Pat Riley before it was, it was,

it was even fashionable to really dress up. I'm talking about Armani suits. Oh, yeah. Oh. You know? Yes. Pat Riley changed the way coaches dressed. And so here, this team is changing the way the game had been played. Our coach changed the way

coach dress and looks. And then we had the biggest superstars in all of Hollywood at our games. I mean, it was just amazing. And that's really what created Showtime. And I tell people all the time, you know, you can't get all that combination ever again. Like the biggest stars in town, the greatest team on the

floor, right? Playing every single night. And then also to the greatest owner and then the Laker girls being stars themselves. So led by Paula Abdul. So it's all those things happen at the same time that, that you just can't get, get that anymore. I remember, um, halftime, uh, piston finals forum, uh, a page comes up to me in my seat.

and says, Coach Daly wants to see you. And so I go down and they're warm up. This is halftime of a finals game.

And Coach Daly's like, hey, my daughter's here and she's a big fan. Can you take a picture? And I thought, this is so good that he's thinking about getting a picture with me at halftime and not figuring out how to double team magic. This is awesome. But you have to remember the...

the opponent was always looking in the stands and also even during timeouts they were watching the Laker girls perform right oh yeah hell yeah it was a secret weapon yes and I love going to a game at the Staples Center now but it

it's not as cozy as the form see and people who miss those games that were at the form versus the Staples Center unfortunately you would never know what a scene it was and also what a home court advantage the

the form was for us because that form would be rocking when we, when we would go on a 20-0 run or 18-0 run, that place would be rocking and the noise stayed in the building, right? Where now, because the Staples Center is so big, sometimes you lose that, that noise and,

We still got great fans and tremendous fans, and we will always have the best fans in all the basketball, Laker fans. But it's just the noise, because it's so big, will drown out where at the forum it never left the building. Yeah.

The other thing is today is you have amazing athletes and obviously great players, but it feels like it's a lot of clear outs. So, you know, you get to have LeBron, who's just a beast, obviously, and there's nobody – there's literally no one in the world that can stop him and probably no two people double teaming who can stop him. And it makes sense. If you have an athlete like that, you're going to clear out and you're going to let him do his thing. But –

One of the things I loved was you as an, as a, as an orchestrator of, you know, the, the three-way pass to the slam dunk of worthy on the, on the, on the fly, or then the next time down, maybe you want to back. I remember when you started backing guys down, that was awesome. Cause that, that I used to love when you would back guys down and you, I haven't seen a point guard. Well, first of all, there are no point guards who have your, who built like you, but like, when was the last time you saw anybody back anybody down? Yeah.

No, it's changed because it's a pick and roll game now. So today is about the three-point line. And everybody can probably thank Golden State for that, right? Because everybody now wants to shoot from the three-point line. When I played, it was inside out. So you would throw the ball down low to James or to Kareem. And then the ball would come out after they got double teamed where –

today's game is shoot the three. So it's outside in, right? Right. So that's why there's no real dominant post players anymore because they've taken that out the game. And now all your big men are really basically on the perimeter instead of being down low. Yep. And you know what else was different, Rob? Is you knew...

every player and every player knew you, right? Jack knew every player and we knew him. And so we embraced that.

the other celebrities of the city and of Hollywood and they embraced us and we all were close. It was a close knit situation. So that has changed a lot now too where we were all just, if Rob Lowe was giving a party or so-and-so was giving a party, we were all there or we were giving a party, you guys all came. And so I thought that we created something that

We don't see any more there, too, as well. It's true. I mean, you and that's probably why you're remain like the ambassador to the city of Los Angeles, because you're

you know, you've always been in the community so much. And it's true. Like again, the culture now everybody has, you know, their, their group of dudes that they roll with. And, um, I remember your birthday party at magic mountain when you rented out magic mountain, that was the, by the way, one of the great birthday parties. So genius. It was, I mean, how great magic rents out magic mountain. What do you remember what year that was? How old were you turning? Do you remember? I,

That was right in 92, that same year as the Olympics. Right. And, man, we had a ball. Wow. I remember Shaq was out. Yes. It was his summer. I think he had just been drafted.

Yeah. And that's where I first met him. Right. Yeah. He came, Janet Jackson. I mean, yourself. I mean, it was so many people we just had. And we had such an incredible time because we all acted like little kids because we just all. Yeah.

Just rode the roller coasters and we played all the games. And, you know, we got a chance just to be little kids again. And I think that's why we all had so much fun. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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Did I ever tell you my baby hook story? No. So, I was shooting...

A movie in Long Island called Masquerade. I was in the Hamptons and the Boston series was going on. And obviously, you know, that's a blood oath. You got to like, and I was so disappointed that I probably wasn't going to get to go there. And I hired, I figured there was a way if I hired a seaplane,

It could pick me up in the ocean because I was out shooting on a boat. Okay. It could pick me up on the ocean. It could maybe – it could get me to the garden in time for the game and then I could get back without anybody knowing in the studio because they forbid me to fly because of insurance. So I paid one of the production assistants like $200 and they put me in a Zodiac and put a blanket over me and drove me out to the middle of Long Island Sound.

And this plane had been circling, looking for me. And the people were like, why is that plane circling? Is Rob out there? And the guy, I was like, tell him we're not. He goes, I can't lie to them. I can't lie to them. I'll lose my job. I said, okay, you're right. Don't lie to them, but say you can't hear them.

And so he said, I can't hear you on the walkie talkie. So the seaplane lands and I get in the seaplane and I take off and nobody knows I'm gone. And I remember getting to the garden. It's sweaty. It's hot. It's disgusting. And just, just at tip off, just at tip off. And they leave me and Lon got me the tickets. Lon, our mutual friend, has worked with you forever. He gets me tickets, but he's got me tickets next to ML Carr.

So I'm sitting next to ML Carr and he's just as bad as he ever was. Even though he's not playing, he's waving the towel and being obnoxious and I'm yelling for you and yelling for the boys. And it gets so heated that they move me.

to the Celtics owner's box. So now I'm up in the Celtics owner's box. And this was the game where you remember it, obviously. I think we were down by 13 points or maybe even 14 in the fourth. Yeah. And I'll never forget it. And this is what made me think about it was the fast break pull up. We get a fast break.

And Cooper pulls up with nobody in front of him. No one. That's right. That's right. And takes people forget that that whole comeback started with Cooper pulling up with a wide open three. And I thought, we're fucked. He's going to miss it. And he's going to get it. And he sunk it.

And then the ultimate moment, of course, is the famous unveiling of the baby hook. So I'm in with the owners of the Celtics. Oh, my goodness. And I remember when Cooper hit the jumper turning them and I said, we're coming back.

They laughed at me. And then you hit that circus shot and they were so pissed. It was heaven. See, let me let the fans in on something about you. I got to tell them. See, you knew us so well, Rob, that you said to the Celtic owners,

We were down 14, 13, 15 points. In the court, in the garden. Yes, yes. But what I love about this story is you turn to the owners after Cooper hits the three. Now we're down 12. And you say to them, we're about to come back. Now, no other fan would ever say that, right? We're down 12 on the road.

And you turn and say, we're about to come back. And sure enough, we came back and we won the game. But that's the energy and also the

That's you saying, I know this team. I know how they play. I know they're going to go on a run. And you were absolutely right. How incredible is that? I mean, how did that make you feel? Yes, I hit the hook to win the game. And that's I mean, they play it so much. So I loved every minute of it because I hated the Celtics.

I hit the hook against Larry Bird and my arch rival. So, you know, I'm going to always feel good about it. And that series put us up 2-1 over Larry and his Celtics because whoever won that series between, you know, Larry and I would go up 2-1 on each other. So, you know, I'm sitting here right now even talking to you, feeling good about the situation. You should feel good. But how did you feel when –

When we won, though. I can tell you exactly what I thought. When you got the pass, I didn't know what you were going to do with it. And I know your game so well, but I was like, what's happening here? And then when I saw that Kevin McHale came out to double you,

Yep. Yep. And I'm like, Oh, okay. Well, there's an open guy on the court. Here comes the pass. Here we go. And then I saw you go into, you've never, I've never seen you hit that shot. I've never seen you take that shot in the game ever. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I'll never forget. I was like, Oh no, no, Oh no. Oh,

Yes, yes, yes. It was, oh, no, oh, no, oh, no. I was like, wait a minute. He's doing his Kareem Skyhook imitation. And it worked. It was. And I was like, yep, I should have known. I should have known it was going to work. Do you know I've never met Larry Bird? Never. No way. I've never met Larry. Isn't that insane?

That is insane. You know, all the Celtic lovers like Mark Wahlberg and all them, I met them. You know, that's crazy that you haven't met Larry Bird and we played them all those times and you were at all those games. I know, but I'll tell you, the Celtic I hated the most. The most. I remember he shot an air ball free throw attempt at the forum and I started the air ball.

air ball chant. That's my contribution to the NBA. It was Danny Ainge. I hated Danny Ainge so much. He was such a whiny, pouty little punk. And so fast forward to 20 years later, I'm shooting a movie in Boston and I go to see, this is during the Paul Pierce years,

And I get a seat there. The Celtics are nice and give me a seat. And it's next and it's next to Danny. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he looks at me and I look at him and he looks at me like you little Hollywood. And I look at him like, hey, man, I'll still go. You little little guy.

And we started doing our thing and jawing at each other. And I came to love him, of course, because he's just like who he is. That's the problem is they say you should never meet your heroes. I think you should never meet your villains. Because then you can't root against them. And I'm being dead serious about this. No, you're right. I don't want to meet.

The athletes that I that I root against and I don't and I don't really have any vested interests like I did with the Lakers in those days. It was like my blood, but I maybe that's why I've never met Larry, because I always wanted to, like, hold him up on this pedestal of a guy I wanted. I wanted you guys to kill. And then you meet him. Of course, they're great.

Yeah, well, I think you would like Larry. I mean, what you see is what you get. And one thing us Laker fans, and especially back in those days, we hated the Celtics, but we respected the Celtics, you know, and we knew that they were so good. And we hated Larry, Kevin McHale, Robert Pears, Dwayne.

DJ, I mean, but at the same time, we respected them and it brought out the best in everybody. See, fans got to realize something which is great that, you know, we're talking about right now is that

The Celtics teams brought out the best in the Lakers and the Lakers brought out the best in the Celtics. But also, too, the Celtics teams brought out the best in Laker fans like we brought out the best in Celtic fans. You see, because remember that that you couldn't get a ticket. But the whole town.

was shut down. When the Lakers played the Celtics, nobody was doing anything but either in that arena or at home watching that game or at a bar or at a restaurant. They had to watch that series and those games because it was so incredible and it was so much great talent, Hall of Fame talent on the floor playing the game the right way.

I'll tell you the other thing that people don't realize is I am the only coach who has coached NBA players in a game where we scored, I think, 240 points and lost. And that was at your charity game.

Yeah, Midsummer Night's Magic game. Midsummer Night's Magic was the best. So for those of you who don't remember, Matt, every year Magic had for the United Negro College Fund, if I'm remembering correctly, right? That's right. You would raise a fortune.

And, and, um, what I loved, it was a, uh, a game. It was a basketball game. And what I, what I loved about it was everyone showed for you. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah. In the middle of the summer, they all made the pilgrimage out to the forum. It didn't matter who you were. And the year I coached,

Um, it, I, it was me and Arsenio Hall as the coaches. And if that doesn't tell you what era it was, nothing will. Um, but do you remember we had, we had Michael, it was the first time you and Michael had ever played. That's right. That's a great point. You and Michael Jordan had never played before.

together. No, no. And my game. And that was the first time. And man, that's crazy that you've been involved in so many highlights of my life. And, and, um, it's, it's, it's just, this is, I,

I'm sitting here, Rob, like saying, wow, the things that you and I have gone through together, it could be a book. We could write a book about so many different things that happened. And I want to thank you for that because, you know,

In this town, you don't get to have, to me anyway, lifelong friends like this. A lot of times, you do your thing and that person does their thing. But to sit here and have a great conversation like this and let the people in on

our lives and what happened back then is really just special, man. So before we keep going on, I just wanted to thank you for that because it's truly amazing because you didn't have to be the coach, but you did. And kids benefited from you coaching. And you're right. I called Michael.

And said, listen, man, I need you to come and play in this charity game. And you know what? He didn't even hesitate. He said, I'm in. When is it? And so and it was the first time we were ever played together. So it was a lot of fun for the fans to watch us. And I want to thank also Larry Bird. Yep.

The first game I had, him and I teamed up. So people at Polly Pavilion, we sold the game out in like 20 minutes. Then when I announced Michael Jordan, we sold that out in five minutes. So I had Kobe played in it. Shaq played in my game.

I mean, all the best players in the NBA played in that charity game because they wanted to help kids go to college. And again, man, how many amazing moments that we have. And what people didn't know, too, that after every championship, you would come and party with us, too. Oh, we had so much fun. I mean, that's a whole other book.

I remember, so here's my memory of the game that I coached. I had, there was a party the night before and I don't think I'd gotten any sleep.

And I literally was like, I was so hungover and, and I was, and I decided I wanted to dress like Pat Riley. So I was in a suit and I had my hair slicked back and I carried that. I carried like a rolled up paper that he would always carry in his hand. And Pat never sat. I don't know if fans really realize that Pat Riley never sat ever, not once during a game ever.

Which is, and then 20 years later, we had a coach who never stood up, Phil Jackson. Yeah, I know. It's Phil Jackson. So we've seen both sides. Hey, that was good, Rob. Nobody would ever remember that but you. Yeah, so at one point you're on the bench sitting next to me.

And I want to, and I think Michael, whatever reason we brought you guys out for a minute, for two seconds, let some of the other guys play. And I'll never forget Carl Malone running on the wing past us. And it was like a, you know what a train goes by and you feel that you feel the air go like the, you feel like the air blow your hair back.

And I'll never forget you turning to Michael and going, would you ever take a charge from that man? And you guys both looked and said, fuck no. It was just one of those inside great moments. So my big memory was I look up at the clock and we're down five.

I don't know, let's say 10 points, whatever the hell it was. But everybody's having fun and it's just great. And I realized I haven't done anything, partially because I'm so hungover. I haven't made myself felt at all. I haven't done my part of the performance. So I realized I should at least call a timeout just so people know that I'm here. So I walked out, did the 20-second timeout, which I always felt like Riley always did, was a big fan of 20-second timeouts more than full timeouts. And

I did that and everybody huddled up and looked at me and I had nothing to say. But you know who did have something to say? Michael Jordan. And he was fucking pissed. And you know why? Because you were losing. And I'll never forget it as long as I live. He looked at you with that look and you had this moment

Where like you went, oh, oh, oh, oh, I see. Oh, he, oh, he wants to win. Like you're doing what we do in LA, which is entertain. Yes. And, and Jordan was not having it. I'll never forget it as long as I live.

No. No.

Clyde Drexler, that little amazing bastard, hit a no-look like circus shot and beat us. But it was amazing. That's right. And we'll be right back after this.

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I want to talk to you also a little bit about, you know, what you've done, the amazing things that you've done with how you've transitioned in your career into being not only like a captain of business, but a leader. And I'm just, first of all, I'm just really grateful for your presence. Oh, thank you. You know, I really think that you have such a

diverse worldview because of where you've come from. One of the things I'm fascinated with is when you were a kid and you were bused into the white school

Right. And, and, and cause I was a kid then too. I remember busing and I remember all that stuff and it was really hair. It was hairy. It was hairy for everybody. Remember what I like a explosive time that was. I've always wondered what that experience was like for you. Cause I've heard you briefly just say, you know, it was really, you didn't like it, but then you were grateful for it in hindsight because it, it taught you how to deal with, you know, white people who

Yeah, it definitely did, Rob. And it was an eye opener. So...

you know, playing basketball in the inner cities, you know, you figure you go to the same schools as all your heroes who are older than you. So, you know, I went to main street school. We won all the championships. Then I went to do right rich junior high school and, you know, we won all the championships. And so I've always wanted to go to sex in high school. That was basically pretty,

predominantly black in my neighborhood. And so because they had the long history of great basketball teams and I wanted to be a part of that. So just when I got into ninth grade, they started busing. And so the next year, I

That fall, instead of going to Sexton High School in my neighborhood in Lansing, Michigan, they said, "Hey, you're gonna get bussed across town." Now I could walk.

It's going to take me 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes to get to section. And now I got to go across town and catch a bus to a school that I knew nothing about in terms of, you know, the community, the kids, the other young kids who were going there. So when we got there for the first couple of weeks, it was really, it was not good for anybody because they didn't want us there. We didn't want to be there. And so, um,

a defining moment in my life happened that third week as we pulled up to the school and there was you know a lot of fighting before that and uh the principal jumped on the bus before all of us kids got off and he said urban johnson come with me so i'm like and you know kids they were like what's gonna happen what do you do you're going to the principal's office you know so i get there and

And the best football player in our school, he was sitting there and he happened to be white. And he said, listen, we can't have no more racial tension. So he said, Irvin, you're going to go speak to all the black students and I have them in the gym ready for you. And he told the other guy, the football player, he said, you're going to go talk

talk to the white students and have them to stop fighting as well. And so I said, listen, I just got here. I'm not, I just, I'm only a sophomore. And so won't you pick a senior or something? He said, no, he said, no, they're going to listen to you. And I was like, so that was my first time or ever in my life.

delivering a speech like that. Uh, uh, and so we end up stop fighting and, and one thing about sports, it, it, it's, it's really, it can bring people together. So the basketball season was starting like a month or two later. And, um, and so we were picked, it was,

to come in last again, you know, and we got off to a 7-0 start. Everybody was shocked. How is Everett High School undefeated? You know, and we went and played a school. We blew them out that was supposed to be a powerhouse in the state.

Michigan and I had 38 points 19 rebounds 18 assists so that was my first triple-double right so everybody said oh my goodness what a game by this young man so the sports writer came in and said hey because of that performance I got to give you a nickname he said somebody's already called dr. J somebody's already called piggy I want to call you magic

So that's how I got my nickname. And I want people to realize that it ended up one of the best situations for me because, again, I end up knowing how to coexist with people who didn't look like me. And they understood. So I understood that.

whites better and I think whites who went to Everett High School understood blacks better because of our presence there and knew how to coexist and work together. And so it made me a well rounded person. And then I got to go on and go to Michigan State, win a national championship there and the same thing happened there.

And I'm so happy that the Lakers said, hey, we're going to pick you number one because they could have picked Sidney Moncrief. They could have picked a whole lot of other players if they wanted to, but they chose me. And sometimes it's a blessing that everything works out, right? I get drafted by the Lakers with my personality and the way I play. Larry Bird signs with the Celtics and he was a

perfect fit for Boston and his personality. My personality in L.A. was a perfect fit. It turned the whole league around. Again, if it wasn't for that experience at every high school

I don't think I'd be the man that I've become or I would have been the basketball player that I became because that coach also let me play guard when I was the tallest guy on the team in high school. Wow. That never happens. That never happens. Never. Right. No, never. Never. And so and then when I got to Michigan State, he allowed me to play guard, too.

So, I was really blessed to have great coaching, too, who also, they understood they could utilize my talent and lead me at point guard, even though I was the tallest on the team. Well, you know, it's like, I feel the same way about entertainment. You know, it can bring people together. And where this moment that our country is going through, I just feel like...

And we will look back on it in the way that you look back on the day when they were like, hey, guess what? You don't get to walk to high school.

You're going to go to high school. You're going to sit in a bus for 45 minutes and it's going to be with a bunch of people you don't know. You may not like, they might not like you. And you must have felt like, what the hell is happening in my life? Right. And, and, you know, with granted, it's taken many, many years for you to get to the point to this point, but you're like, you know what? That was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Yep. And that's, that's sort of where, where I look, I'm an optimist, but that's where I come down with, with everything that we're going through as a country right now is we'll look back on it and be like, that was a nightmare, but it, it, thank God it happened. And, you know, I think sports entertainment is,

you know, storytelling, podcast, all that stuff is, is ways to bring everybody together because when you're a fan, you're not black or white or anything or male or female. You're just a fan. Fan is a fan is a fan is a fan. And that's right. And that's always been what's, what's drawn me to that stuff. And that's, and that's what I, what I hope that even in something small like this, you know, it just gives people a break and,

reminds people of, of all of, um, how much we have in common. Cause my thing on all of this is like, and dude, you've lived in LA forever. I mean, I remember another Laker thing was, um,

When the Rodney King riots happened, we heard about it at halftime at a Laker game, on a Sunday Laker game. That's right. That's right. And it happened on, we were playing that same night, and we came out, and remember we smelled the smoke. It was, the city was on fire, and I remember it like it was yesterday. My wife, Cookie, was praying.

pregnant and so I had to get her home and it was a lot of unrest at that time and um and then here we are today with unrest and protest and this is it's the same but different and um

We just hope that things change for the better for the country. Right. And and I think that it will. And I feel that these young protesters of all colors are out there protesting and and really bringing hopefully they'll bring the country together and make sure people realize that racism got to go and people got to change. And I'm sure it will. And I'm sure people will.

It's funny. It's, it's, it's made me have conversations with my kids, um, where I realize my perspective is so much different than theirs. I mean, they, they look, they're seeing the world through way fresher eyes, obviously. Right. But their, their perspective on, on how the world works and mine is, it's, it's really different. And these are my own kids. Right.

Yes. So can you you can all one can only imagine what that's like when it's people you don't know, people from different backgrounds, people don't look like you, you realize we all have such tremendously different ideas of what reality is and isn't.

And we have to come to terms with the fact that, you know, we can both look at the same thing and see something completely differently. And once you acknowledge that, then we can get into a conversation about, okay, what's really going on? And I think that it's so amazing to look out and see that that's happening.

all over the place right now. Yeah, because at the end of the day, how can we make things better, you know, and for all people? And so, and I think that's what everybody is striving for, just to make

equal rights, just make things better for everybody, a level playing field for everybody. And so it's beautiful that you're having those conversations and I'm sure all families are having those conversations. And then at the end of the day, let's all work together to just make things better for everybody. Yeah. I have another, since we're sort of in the political conversation era, I

Does Barack Obama have game or not? Yes. He does? Yes, he's smooth, man. He got a nice jump shot. He knows how to play. He has instincts for the game too, which was really, I was really shocked when he invited Cookie and I to come and they were

They were throwing a barbecue at the White House and the day before the barbecue, they were going to play a game of pick up basketball. And it was just amazing to be out there on that court with him and.

of the other congressmen and senators. And it was just amazing going up and down and just and he hit the game winning shot. Come on. Yes. Yes, he did. He he pumped fake about 20 feet out and shot it and left his hand up in the air to

to say like, you know, I just hit the game winning shot, right? So, uh, but it was a great moment in time for me and, uh, for all the guys who were invited and, uh,

He's just, you know, he's a game changer. I think he really changed the world for the better. And so he got game, bro. He got game. I mean, I got to tell you, there's a lot of things that are cool about Barack Obama, but the fact that he built a basketball court at the White House, for me, is the absolute coolest. I mean, he put it in there. There was no, I mean, I can tell you what, Dwight Eisenhower did not put in a basketball court. That's for sure.

I love that there's a basketball court at the White House now. It's the greatest thing ever. Well, also that he knows how to play, right? Yeah. Like, you know, normally, you know, you get the president, he's not going to know how to play no basketball. So, you know, I mean, he can really, really play.

And he loved to golf. And he loved to talk trash, too. He was out there talking trash. No way. I want you to know that, too, Rob. That's so good. Yes, he was talking big-time trash at the same time. Oh, I love that. Yeah.

Oh, that makes me so happy. Here's the president talking trash to you. What do you say back, Rob? What do you say back when you look over there and the Secret Service is standing right there? I don't think you really respond. Who is who is the biggest trash talker that you played with? Was it was it Larry? Was it Michael?

Yeah, I think for me, the biggest two trash talkers of all time were Larry Bird and Michael Jordan. Yeah.

Hands down. Right? And they love to talk trash, and they bagged it up, though. See, the difference is a lot of players talk trash, but they couldn't bag it up. Right. But Michael Jordan would tell you what he was going to do, and he told me one time, okay, tonight I'm going to score 50 on you guys, MJ, and you guys can't do nothing about it. He ended up scoring about 55 on us.

Larry Bird one time, I was hurt at home. I couldn't play against the Celtics that game. And he said, don't worry about it, Magic. I'm going to put on a show for you.

man, he only missed three shots that night. I think he scored 40, 40, 42 points or something. And the last one was right by our bench. He hit a three point shot. And then he turned to me and said, magic, how'd you like the show that I put on tonight? I was like, Oh my goodness, this guy, but this is, this is, see, when you got people who excel and who are the greatest at what they do, uh,

You just marvel. Even though they play for another team, you still marvel at their talents. And that's why the Dream Team was so special when I got that opportunity, Rob, to play with both of those guys. On my bucket list, I've always wanted to play with Michael and Larry.

And sure enough, the dream team provided that opportunity for me to do that. And man, that was the greatest basketball I've ever played in. And it's the greatest team ever assembled. Every guy on that team is in a, you know,

is in a basketball hall of fame. And I tell you, we destroyed every country. - Irvin, it's not fair when people are asking for your autograph during the game. - And not just asking for the autograph, Rob. One dude cried at the free throw line. He had fouled Michael Jordan and he started crying.

I can't believe it. I can't believe it. It's you, Michael. I just found you. Oh, my goodness. And we were all like, wow. Wow.

Wow. That's never happened in the history of basketball, you know? And so again, when you think about Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen, Chris Mullen, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, you know, John Stockton and,

And I think I'd say Clyde Drexler and Scottie Pippen. And then we had a college guy named Christian Laettner. Oh, you know. What an amazing team. Do you know that I produced a 30 for 30 called I Hate Christian Laettner? You produced that? Yes. Wow. I love that 30 for 30. It's good, right?

Very good. And what people got to realize, this guy, though, for him to win back-to-back, I mean, that's hard to do to win national championships back-to-back, you know? I think the baby hook...

And his, the shot are the two most famous basketball shots of all time. That's right. That's right. At the free throw line, turn around, jump shot to win the game. Unbelievable. Whenever I see that shot of Leitner's, what blows, and I remember again, watching it live, it looks like he's going to dribble out the clock. He is so slow and takes so much time getting that shot off.

Every time I see it, I think he's not going to make it. He's not going to make it. The buzzer's going to go off. No matter how many times I've seen it.

So good. Yeah. And you have to remember, he just, what a winner in college basketball. I mean, the man, you gotta give him his credit because he, he dominated in college basketball. So. Dominated. Yes. Yes. They, and you know, Duke, Coach K, I mean, he's built one of the greatest programs of all time at Duke. Yeah. My son, Matthew went to, graduated from Duke. So.

So I got to spend. Is that right? Yeah. So I got to know Coach K a lot, go to a lot of games at Cameron Indoor. It was, I mean. Oh, very cool. You know what they say? They say that the UNC Duke game.

At Cameron is, I love this, the third hardest ticket to get in sports. I guess it's the, like the Super Bowl, maybe the, I think the Masters, and then that. So I got to do that. It was fun. Wow. I have another question I want to ask you. You're... Okay. So I did, do you know Pardon My Take? You know that great... Yes. Right? Yes. So those guys are huge fans of yours, as you know. Right. And...

And they're like, you need to, I said, I'm, I said, look, you're the best sports podcast. I'm going to be interviewing magic. He's going to be one of my first guests. Do you have any questions? Do you have any thoughts? And they're like, you have to ask him, does he write his own tweets? And I was like, what? That's of, of all the things of all the things, right?

That you could ask one of the greatest men players in the world. That's what they wanted to ask. And so here I am. I'm asking. Why are they obsessed with your tweets? I don't know. No, I have somebody write them out. I...

I tell them what I want to say and they write them. That's what I, yeah, that's what I kind of do. I mean, do I need to go back into your Twitter feed and see if it looks like somebody else like took over your feed and there's crazy like Charles Barkley smack talk going on? Am I missing something? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't, I don't get into that on my Twitter feed. No, you're smart. That's the other thing is the characters in the league in those days, um,

The characters, just the personalities. There will never be anybody like Charles Barkley, I mean, ever again. I mean, just even in doing the dream team in the Olympics, the man, the

The man was awesome. He dominated on the basketball court. And then he was the toast of the town in Barcelona, too. He would go every single night and hold court at the nightclubs. And people loved him, loved every moment of him showing up. You could hear the crowd going crazy as he's walking through, you know, because our hotel where we stayed,

Had thousands and thousands of people just lining up outside just to get a glimpse of anybody. And Charles would walk in the middle of these people in the crowd and just have the most fun. And so I love Charles because he's a man who's going to speak his mind, say what he wants.

and but I at the same time entertain you every single night that he's on TNT so he does a fabulous job he's one of my favorite broadcasters he's so yeah he's so he's so good and Shaq's has become great too I

I think. Yeah. Well, well, you know, Shaq, we knew, I remember when I talked to him when he first got here, I know earlier we said how he came to my party when he first hit town. Yeah. I also took him aside and said, Hey man, you gotta be more than just a champion and a dominant basketball player. So he has done so well. Hmm.

After basketball, I mean, all the things that he's involved in and businesses and and his personality, he's utilizing that he's being a DJ. I mean, he's he's doing so much and I'm so proud of him. And I always told him the mistake that him and the late, great Kobe Bryant made that.

They didn't stay together, you know, because I thought they could have won seven or eight championships. I mean, they won that three in a row. I thought they could have came back and won so many more. And I would have loved had seen them

play more years together. And, uh, I think we're still all devastated at the loss of Kobe. Uh, he meant so much to the game of basketball, but also to the city of Los Angeles and, and, um, you know,

you know, my heart still goes out to Vanessa and the girls and man, he gave us both him and Kobe gave us some great moments. And then Kobe gave us some great moments after, uh, Shaq left to win what three more championships. I should say two more. And, um, so it was just amazing that, uh, uh,

we got a chance, you know, the Los Angeles has always had great dominant players. And so, and LeBron is now taking that over now with him and Anthony Davis. So we've been blessed to live out here and be Laker fans. And, and, uh, we just gotta, hopefully if they play again this year, just see what happens this season. But I would say this man and,

And people, I want them to know, I love this man, Rob, like a brother because he is a...

He is something special, you know, whether he's on camera or not. But, Rob, you've always remained the same dude, a good dude, speaking to everybody, saying hello to everybody, taking all the pictures. Whatever you, you know, whenever people see you, they feel like they could come up to you. You give that all, people can say, hey, I can approach Rob.

Thank you. You know, some celebrities, some people, you know, you don't feel like you can approach them and people don't. But you've been in like a person who invites people in and you always make people feel good and feel good about themselves and about themselves.

The fact that they, you know, were nervous at first about approaching you, but you make them feel so good when they do approach you. So and that's what I try to do the same thing. And so thank you for your love and friendship, man, because this spans, man, 40 years, basically almost 40 years. I know, you're making me feel old.

Well, you listen. Well, what was crazy is when I saw you and your son that last time. Yeah. And you and I just started laughing and talking. And he was like, man, you guys go. I guess my dad wasn't lying. You guys are close. That's exactly what they said. They're like, Dad, you really know Magic Johnson? I'm like, yeah, I do. I know everything there is to know. Exactly. I can tell you something.

Some I got to take to my grave. That's right. That's part two of the podcast. Hey, brother, this is so great. You're such a... Thank you. Listen, you and I could talk for another 10 hours. That's the hilarious part. Oh, yeah. People don't even know it's so many more stories.

stories, but we're going to get into part two. Yeah. When I invited Michael Jackson to the, to the Laker game, we're going to get into part two. See, we can't, we can't give them everything in just one. That's right. Yeah. We can't, we can't. It's too many things. You and I have done too many things together. Yeah.

We can't cover everything in an hour. It's just no way. There's no way. No, we'll do it. I'll come on your podcast next and then you'll come back. Well, you got to do my documentary for me. Okay. You got to do the documentary. I told him Rob Lowe has got to be on it. And they said, okay, so we're going to be grabbing you because you got a lot to say. So people look forward to that.

Yep. All right. Listen, again, thank you for your friendship. And I just can't wait to see the next chapter because you always write a new chapter in your life and everyone is better than the next one. And give Cookie a big hug for me. And hopefully I'll see you at Laker game or Dodger game soon. Hopefully. You got it. OK, tell everybody your family. Hello. Love you. Take care of yourself, brother. Take care. Take care. I could have talked to him for 100 years.

I didn't even get a chance to ask him. He's got one choice. Is it going to be Kobe or MJ? I would have liked, I mean, listen, there's nobody more diplomatic or smarter than Irvin. So I would love to see him pin down and have to make that one choice. I honestly don't know what he'd say. I'm kind of curious. God damn it. See, this is why I'm not a totally professional podcaster because a professional podcaster would have for sure asked that question. And I didn't.

If you want a refund because I didn't, I would understand, but I'm not giving you one because I thought that was fucking awesome. That conversation. Thank you guys and gals. And I will see you next week. We have an amazing guest next week. It will be almost as good as this one or maybe even better. Thanks for listening. You have been listening to literally with Rob Lowe produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blairt. Talent producer, Jennifer Sampas. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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