Nick Offerman: The Ted Experience
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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling, and so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing, cash back.

That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Nicholas. Hello there. Nick. Oh, look at him. Are we in pre-production? We're in pre-production. I still, I need a few touches, I think.

No, you don't, dude. You look thin and young. That's my thing. Those are my two categories when it comes to casting. Hello, and welcome to Literally with Rob Lowe. I'm very excited today to have the amazing Nick Offerman, a.k.a. Ron Swanson.

who is on the Mount Rushmore of television comedy iconic characters. You can take your Steve Carells in the office. Phooey, Mr. Nick Offerman in Parks and Recreation is as iconic a character as you will ever see. He's funny. He's a good friend.

We're going to have a great talk. He hosted me on his podcast, In Bed with Nick and Megan, with the great Megan Mullally. So if you haven't checked out his podcast, please do. And by the way, if you've been enjoying this podcast, please post a review and subscribe. There's a little subscribe button. It's right there in front of you. All you got to do is hit it. And that way you don't need to worry about it. Every Thursday when you wake up, there's going to be a little gift under the tree.

from me. So please subscribe to our podcast and stand by for Nick Offerman. A lot of people don't know Nicholas, that we're from the same part of the country, that we're good Midwestern boys. I always think Columbus, but you're Dayton, right? I'm Dayton. You're Illinois, right? Illinois. Yeah, Minooka. Now, so did you have the same kind of childhood I had where it was like the minute the weather turned, the shoes came off,

And you were just like barefoot. And like, that was like the height of it. Kind of. I mean, it was, it was very outdoors, but it was very rural. And, and my mom's family still to this day are all farmers. And so, yeah,

It was very out in the woods, riding bikes. The family raised pigs as well as corn and soybeans. So it was growing up like the greatest thing was as a kid was when you could go out in the field and help the guys.

And then eventually by age like 10 and 12, we're taught to drive the pickup truck and drive the tractor so that you can sort of while the guys are out in the field, you can like be hauling the full wagon back to the farm and help out. And so, yeah.

It was wonderfully thrilling because by early teenage years, you're like earning wages and have the sense of responsibility where you can like drive vehicles. And so it was great fun. It had all the fun of like riding bikes or riding motorcycles, but you also were incorporating like responsibility and getting paid and

And then, you know, trying to go fishing when you could. So how does somebody who grows up in that atmosphere decide they want to be an actor and then end up in L.A.? It's the farthest thing from that world. It makes, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Not only that, the thing that always baffles me and Megan is that it was a real cultural vacuum. You know, it's the 70s. So we've got three TV channels plus PBS.

And we've just got like top 40 radio stations. And I've got nobody in my entire community giving me the good shit. Like there's, there's, I don't have an older sibling or there's no cool kid in my whole town to say like, Oh, here's, you know, like, like the radio is playing the Eagles, but here's Frank Zappa or, or here's, here's the weird stuff that you will come to identify with as like counterculture radio.

And so there's this famous home movie of me at like age 11 or so at our fishing cabin in Minnesota. The whole big family would go on these fishing vacations and there's a home movie of

And it was a new thing where somebody had an eight millimeter camera. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And they're just panning across like the 18 family members that are, that are on this trip and everybody's like shying away from the spotlight and so forth. And it gets to me, this 11 year old me, and I'm just, I'm,

Megan always says it's like Helen Keller, you know, doing her water bit where I'm like, oh my God, you have a camera? This, point it here, point it here. Like, you want a load of this. Showbiz right here. Turn the lights on this.

And no idea, like I never did any cognitive deduction where I was like, oh, I love John Belushi. And I love Jim Ignatowski, Christopher Lloyd on Taxi. I love Jackie Gleason. I love Carol Burnett. I want to do what they do. How do I go about it?

you know, achieving that. None of that ever occurred to me because I was in such a cultural vacuum. So I had this penchant of like, I want to showbiz for people. And I did plays at my high school. You know, we did like our, I mean, it's a tiny town. It's a couple thousand people. First of all, before we go on, I want to know who you play. But that's what I tell people the same. I go, it's hard to remember that there was a time where

Being famous wasn't something that absolutely every human on the planet thought they could and should do. Yeah, I mean, before the advent of reality shows, I mean, that was a huge cultural shift. And that was, I don't know, 20 years ago, where suddenly...

you could live in a small town and your local butcher could have a reality show. And it became a normalcy where you're like, oh, anybody can get on TV now. Like Snooki can become a New York Times bestselling author. That's right. And so when it came time to choose a career path and choose where I was going to go to college, even then, I mean, hilariously,

My high school guidance counselor who like my mom and dad both went to my same high school. My dad is still like he was the he's on trophies in the trophy case. Amazing. For batting average and free throw percentage. He was such a stud.

And so my guidance counselor went to school with my mom and dad. This weird troglodyte of a man, rest in peace, his name was Art.

John, J-U-A-N. He pronounced Juan and John because it's the Midwest. And he gave you like a ditto, a Xerox with like 36 career choices. This is the guidance counselor and you're a junior. So you're trying to pick a college and it's literally like accountant, lawyer, you know, there's no trades on there. It's all like college trained, you know,

career paths. And I was like, I think I want to go into the arts. Like I play, I play the saxophone. I, I, I was, uh, the lead tenor sax in our jazz band. And like, I was really into the saxophone, but I think I want to like be an actor. And, and not only that guy, but everybody was like, I don't think, I don't think you can do that. Um, like, I don't think you can get there from here. Have you ever heard of anybody doing that?

And I'm like, no. And so I said, okay, well, what about, I mean, I can go to music school and I'll play the saxophone. And he was like, I don't think that's a good idea either. I mean, there was one guy who played the trombone, Clark Anderson's big brother,

And he went to trombone school, and now he's teaching band at a small Illinois college. Yeah, but that's the trombone. Right. But even so, they were like, there's only one precedent, and here's what he achieved. So that's all that's available. Is that what you want? Yeah.

And I was like, I think you guys are thinking small. Like, I think you're pretty small minded. And thankfully, I'll nutshell this. My girlfriend, who was a year older, was auditioning for the dance department at the University of Illinois Big Ten School. And I drove her three hours to this audition. And I was hanging out in the hallway and I met some theater students completely different.

out of luck. And not only did I meet them, but they must have been like, hey, kid, why are you hanging out in this hallway in the dance department? Are you a pervert? And I was like, no, my girlfriend's here auditioning. And somehow we struck up a conversation and I learned that I was like, what do you mean you're theater students? And I was like, what do you... And they said, you know...

When we graduate, we hope to go to Chicago where you can get paid to act in plays. And I was, my mind was absolutely blown. I was like, you, are you fucking kidding me? Like I've heard of London and I've heard of Broadway, but you, you know, anybody can get paid to be in a play in Chicago. So I went home from that day to my mom and dad and said, mom, dad,

I can go to college at a state school and then I go to Chicago and get paid to be in place. That's what I'm doing. And they were like, yeah, okay. In their defense, they said, look, you're weird. You make weird choices. You think outside the box, but you always work really hard and do your best at whatever crazy ideas you come up with. So we will support this decision, right?

But we encourage you to try to maintain some other skill set by which you can earn money because going into the arts is a notoriously dangerous path. And so...

I just always made sure I was also a carpenter, which started with my dad teaching me how to use tools. So, I mean, thankfully, I was able to find a path by which I could answer or scratch this really strange itch. I just, you know, you wouldn't think it to look at me, but I was born to dance. Oh, I think it to look at you. The other component is this sort of,

optimistic mindset and sort of a little bit of ignorance is bliss. You know, nobody, can you imagine if they said to you, which by the way, whenever I,

say this fact, I feel like it can't be true. And I check it and it turns out every time it is true that, okay, Nick, you can maybe be an actor and you can maybe come to LA and maybe you can get work as an actor. And if you're lucky, you'll get into the Screen Actors Guild. And once you're in the Screen Actors Guild, you need to know that 99.8% of the Screen Actors Guild doesn't support themselves. That seems like an insane stat.

It's true. And you know what? Like we had you and I both had ignorance about it. We didn't know those things. We had a dream and we followed it and we got lucky and we were but we worked hard. And, you know, and I think I think our Midwestern upbringing had a lot a lot to do with keeping us sane. You're you're sane. You've got a great wife and great life. And I don't know how many times you've been arrested, but I never read about it.

So I think you're doing great. Twice. But they're laughable. And both in college. I like it. So you do have a record. Good. Yeah, just a bit. You know, I like my materials to have a bit of patina. Yes. I think a bright copper kettle is not nearly as attractive as one with a little bit of aqua mold developing on it. I need to ask you about...

Everyone on that show, Parks and Recreation, was such an amazing self-starter and had such a big life outside of the show. And the show would have been enough to just have been in Parks and Rec. But no, you wrote books. You did multiple one-man shows. The first show was you with the guitar, correct? Yeah. And then you and Megan did...

A tour together. Yeah. Obviously Aziz, huge tours, Rashida, you're writing toys story for, and you know, Amy's books and, and on and on. Everybody had something. And I was always so inspired. It's what, what, what made me,

start writing my books and going on tour. Tell me about the, um, I want to know about the tour with Megan and it's about your sex life. Is this correct? Uh, sure. The, the, um, it's interesting. Megan and I are both theater actors. Uh, and she went to Northwestern, even though she grew up in Oklahoma city. So we both started in Chicago theater. Um,

And when people hear Chicago, they often jump to the conclusion that we went to Second City, that we're trained comedy performers like Amy Poehler and Tina Fey and Paul Becker and Steve Carell. But we're not. We went to... We did straight theater, which means it was more like...

you know, doing plays. Do you ever do Steppenwolf or any of that stuff? Yeah, I did five shows at Steppenwolf. Are you kidding? For those of you who don't know, Steppenwolf was founded by Malkovich, right?

Well, yeah, he was one of the – it was founded by three guys, Gary Sinise, Jeff Perry, and Terry Kinney. And Malkovich was an early member, and Laurie Metcalf, and Glenn Headley, and others. I mean, it's an – Probably the most successful –

theater company maybe ever. Yeah, it's definitely the greatest American theater company to my way of thinking. Yeah, definitely. What shows did you do there? I did, the first thing I did was Clockwork Orange. Jesus. Amazing. I was,

And the way I got in, I became Steppenwolf's fight choreographer. I was good at sword fighting and that sort of thing. So I was in Clockwork Orange as the fight captain and a cast member. And then Faulkner's As I Lay Dying, we adapted to the stage with this great, The Crucible, I played John Proctor. What a great part. Yeah.

And getting to do these things, that, and then there was a Clifford Odette's play called Golden Boy. Those were part of this high school outreach program where you do the play at the theater, but then you also have high schools come in and, you know, it's an educational outreach thing. Oh, and then, God, the greatest one, the last one I did there was Sam Shepard's Buried Child, directed by Gary Sinise.

And I wanted the role, it's funny, we've touched on everything, in that play,

It's this incredible play about the generations of a corn family in Illinois. And the role of the grandson, his name is Vince, is a kid that grew up on a corn farm. He plays the saxophone. He's moved away. No way. He's moved away to the city to be in showbiz. No way. And he's come back to reconcile these things. And I was like, oh my God, I am this guy.

And so I did the audition. I met Gary. I was, I tried so hard and they called and said, we, Gary loved your audition. We think you would be perfect to understudy Ethan Hawk, who's going to be playing this part. And, and so,

So I did. I, I, you know, it was really fun. And, and I had a great time working with Ethan and, and, you know, he's great. He's a great actor. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get to go on ever? Did you ever poison him? Two matinees. No, I did. I did not take him out, but they do any, any decent theater does a couple of matinees where they're on purpose. So the understudies can do a show. Right.

But Ted Levine was – Oh, it's so funny. Wait, this is so funny that you mentioned Ted Levine.

I was thinking about the famous Ted Levine audition story. So Ted Levine plays the, what's his character's name in Silence of the Lambs? Buffalo Bill. Of course. So Ted Levine, as you know, plays Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs. With the lotion in the basket. He puts the lotion in the basket. So the story, have you heard the story about his audition ever? I'm not sure. I'd love to hear it. Okay. So now, by the way, this could very well be one of those Hollywood stories that

that isn't true, but it rings really true to me. So he's auditioning for Buffalo Bill, right? And he does this thing. And he auditions. They're like, that's really great, Ted. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming in. And he goes, you know, I did have one other impulse. And they're like, oh, well, yeah, sure, Ted. Go for it. And he goes, one second. He walks out of the door, comes back in, and now he's nude.

Oh, yeah. And he does that thing. And they were like, Jesus fucking Christ. I mean, that's that's one of those moments where you just go you swing for the and they're either going to be like, this person's insane or we're hiring them immediately. And I guess the rest is history.

It's so incredible. And he, so, so the reason Gary did this production of Buried Child was because the last handful of movies and TV things that he'd worked on, it sort of put together this cast. It was like, you know what? And you're going to play this and you're going to play this.

let's all get together at Steppenwolf and do this play. So he'd worked with Ted. Um, the great James Gannon played the patriarch. People probably know him best as the manager from the movie major league. Um,

Great old cowboy actor, Lois Smith, Kelly Overby, the late great Leo Burmester, Ethan Hawke. And so I also got hired. I always thought I was going to like run a theater or like, you know, be part of a theater company. I love doing everything in the theater. So I also used to always do my own makeup and my own prosthetic makeup.

And so they needed just one person to do old age makeup on James Gammon, who was probably, I don't know, he was probably 60 and they wanted him to look 85. You know, it was not a big deal. It was just some highlights and shadows painted on. So I was the understudy and I was, and I was the makeup artist. James Gammon shared a dressing room with Ted Levine. I

I'm absolutely terrified of Ted Levine and I'm like 24, 25 years old.

And Ted's probably 40. So like everybody was friendly and James Gammon used to sing like, you know, he had this, he had this gruff cowboy voice and he used to sing like blues folk songs while I would paint his face. And I was just amazing. Big and shit. I loved it so much. And one day,

And Ted kind of kept to himself. And it's a great role that I hope, I'll just put this out to the universe, when they do this on Broadway anytime soon, I would like Ted's part, please. His name is Tilden. And he's really scary and weird. And he says there's this great actress named Kelly Overby played the sort of ingenue that shows up with Ethan Hawke.

And Ted is kind of stalking her on the stage. And he says to her, she has like a cute fur coat. And he says, I like your coat. Can I hold it? You know, you just imagine Buffalo Bill saying that with an incredible mustache. So one night I'm painting James Gammon's makeup and just absentmindedly, you know, we're all comfortable with each other.

And Ted had some brush, some makeup brush that I would borrow or we were sharing. And I, without just thinking, said, Teddy, can you grab me that brush? And their room went silent. And he said, my name is Ted. And I was like, oh, my God, I literally am going to be skinned. I did Chekhov's Three Sisters.

With Christopher Walken. Holy shit. And it's that sort of my version of the Ted Levine story because I was obviously a tad intimidated by Mr. Walken, who can be notoriously scary. And this is pre more cowbell before he became.

You know, the comedic iteration of himself. He was just flat out. He wasn't always beloved for it. No, he was flat out crazy. And this is Chris Walken blowing his brains out in the Deer Hunter era. Right. And I was really intimidated by him. And finally, I figured, you know, I'm never going to get through this show if I don't just...

Break through this. So I just walked up to him like on the first day. It was like, hi, I'm Rob Lowe and one really big fan of yours. And he was like, I saw your name. I didn't know if it would be you. OK. And he took me for a ride in his big. This is the Williamstown Theater Festival. So it's tiny, beautiful, bucolic town. And he has a black like almost hearse Cadillac wouldn't. And he would sit in it and smoke with no air conditioning going.

sweating and we would drive around together. And there was a moment where the director said that it, the curtain call that we should turn, we should turn and applaud the audience. And we did that for a couple of performances. And then I, in the middle of the show, I looked up at one day and Chris was in my doorway and he says, why do we applaud the audience? I said, well, Chris, cause I, the director asked us to do it. And

Because I think it's sort of like a Greek tradition of the theater that the Greek actors would do. I think something like that. He goes, well, I think the audience has been rude. They haven't laughed once at me and I'm going to give them the finger. It was. Oh, God. And we'll be right back after this.

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I had so much fun being with you and Megan the other day in bed, as it were, in bed with you. That was a blast. Yeah. You lived up to the hype. Did I, though? Yeah. Like late 80s hype.

Ooh, hair mousse era. Sleeveless t-shirts. Like people talk about, you know, there's BC and AD. In my life, it's all about before hair mousse, after hair mousse. You know, a friend of mine that was like my high school photographer for the yearbook, he uploaded a couple hundred photos from our graduating year, yearbook of high school. And he

You know, there was a mixture of emotions, mostly shame and humiliation and disbelief. But the thing that blew my mind, I graduated in 88 from high school and

was the hair, the edifices of hair that these, like all of the girls, you know, from like the homecoming queen cheerleader, star of the volleyball team, all the way to like reclusive chemistry nerd. They all had these crazy like constructions that only now I was like, what time did you get up every morning to do this, to put on this?

Do you remember, when I grew up, the thing that they all had, like the bang, they weren't bangs because they were up at a 90-degree angle and then out at an additional 90-degree angle. And we called that the craw. Was that a thing in Indiana in high school? Do they have an actual term for it? No, not that I recall. I mean, it was like the prow of a ship. Yes, yes.

Oh, those were the days. I mean, listen, you know, hair is an obsession for me. You know that, right? Sure. It's like, I'm very proprietary about my hair. So much so that they wrote it into Ryan Murphy. The first thing he did when he was writing my new show, Lone Star 911, was to make sure that I played a firefighter who is maybe more concerned about his hairline than even pulling people out of fires. And we did a whole bold sequence and

I mean, I think maybe me and Ron Swanson are the only... Are the two people who would be on the heads or tails of the hair-tossed coin if there was such a thing. Don't you think? Well, I'll take that as a compliment. I mean, you have a fine head of hair to begin with. I mean, bro. You know, I mean, Swanson is super... Okay, who do you think has better hair? Ron Swanson...

Or my character, Billy Hicks in St. Elmo's Fire with that mullet of shame? Oh, boy. Well, I mean, I have, you know, you're awakening the keys to my sexuality. I mean, I achieved puberty at my first, at about act two of St. Elmo's Fire, the first time I saw it.

Um, so I, I mean, the thing about Swanson is, uh, Mike wrote something it's early on that he, that he gets up in the morning and like runs a comb through his hair once. And that's the result. Um, that's good. And so, I mean, overall, I'd say probably, uh,

You take the gold, but Ron would win in the effortless category. Oh, well, I make no illusions. Mine was nothing but effort. I mean, it was hours in a hair trailer and multiple flammable chemicals on my head. What did you have on your head?

Well, actually, it was Moose. Yes. You know, and it's funny. I mean, given the nature, I was not a teenage heartthrob. And so the plumbers and bus drivers that I've played over the years, the woodshop teachers, they're

Never required a lot of time in the hair and makeup chair. So that hairdo on Ron Swanson that we call the full douche, it was the first time in my career that I had like a hairdo every day that required mousse and products and like one of those big round brushes and like blowing it out. Right. Yeah.

You know, Robert Mitchum said that acting is no job for a man. And it brought that like it made me feel like a Robert Goulet or a Hasselhoff or something where I was like, do you know what Robert Mitchum said to me? Get your hands off my daughter. Yeah.

Yeah, no, listen, you are thin and youthful. And what are you – you must be working – what's the workout that Nick Offerman is doing these days? You know what? What?

Three or probably four years ago now, I had a Skype meeting with a director for a superhero movie. And it was one of those, you know, once you kind of know how the business works, even to the point that I do, because I don't get a lot of meetings for superhero movies.

And so I knew, like, I knew that this guy was not, he wasn't the first choice as director. The director had been fired. And this guy was a crew member that had been promoted to director. And so I knew that going in, there was no way I was getting this job. No way.

I just like, you know, the math and the only way I get the job is if the man or woman is a maverick, you know? And I'm like, okay, this is like, we're on the same page. This is the smartest thing you can do.

Anybody can go to the gym and get like ripped, but I will be funnier than any of these other choices. Because I know that I'm probably maybe number five or seven on your list of people you're meeting with. Yep. Totally get it. Yep. So I'm doing this meeting and I, you know, and I'm saying to this person, but I understand how it works. I know that I think the smartest thing you could do would be to cast me. It's the only chance possible.

It's the kind of thinking that will allow your superhero movie to stand out from all of the... You're right. By the way, you're 100% right. You're not being self-serving. You're actually right. Yeah, I don't mean that like I'm so great or anything. It's because I'm simply outside the box. 100%.

But I said, you know, I understand that you're not in the kind of position where you can take a risky swing of any sort. So I'm just glad to talk to you. It's really nice to meet you. Good luck, you know, with the movie stars. You're waiting to hear back from the offers you've already made to and have a nice day. And I got out of this meeting. It was about four years ago. And we were up vacationing up in the Redwoods in Northern California.

And I said, you know what, I'm just going to start running. And I never run. I've always been an athlete. I played sports my whole life, but I never just ran, you know, for exercise. And that day I started running and I've run every week. I do five or six days a week and I do four miles a day.

Jesus. And by doing that, that makes me then always pay attention to my diet as well. Yeah. So I can eat a little more enjoyably because I'm burning more calories. My metabolism is burning. But pretty quickly, I became hooked on it. So now I feel terrible if I don't go running. That's it. I agree. I get like the endorphin rush from running is...

is really, is really insane. But I, can you tell me who got the part in the movie? Well, no. Can you give me a hint? Can you give me a hint? I'll tell you off the air. I know. I, I, I proudly tell people that I'm the idiot that turned down Grey's Anatomy. I, I, I wear it as a badge of stupidity. I wear it like, I'm like, I'm happy to tell people that I'm so stupid that

I was like, hmm, let me think. Grey's Anatomy or Dr. Vegas. I know. 100% Dr. Vegas. 100%. That is so funny. It probably only cost – at the end of the day, look, Nick, it probably only cost me about $80 million. Yeah.

How many seasons have they done of Grey's Anatomy? They've done at least 11. I think it's 11 seasons. Oh, I think it's more like- It might be more. And by the way, I wouldn't quit to ride race cars. I would have been milking that gravy train-

to the ends of the earth. Oh, it's, I mean, fortunately you have the, the luxury of comfortable hindsight. You're not, you know, you're missing that opportunity. Didn't leave you destitute. And so we can laugh about it, but still it is, it is amazing. I mean, but, but who knows when, when a pilot or just a, just a, like a paragraph comes across your desk and you're

in your life? You don't know. You just don't know what's going to... Although, in fairness, I knew it was a great script and I knew that Dr. Vegas was not a great script, but I'd already made a deal and then the managers... But...

In hindsight, I look back on it and go, if I had done Grey's, I wouldn't have been on Parks. Yeah. And listen, no disrespect to Grey's Anatomy. I just – for me, I'd rather have Parks on my IMDB than Grey's. I really would. I love Parks and Rec. It's one of my favorite things I've ever done. It's another one of those –

it's, it's the same thing who knew, like, you know, uh, it's, um, signing onto that. Uh, it's, it's amazing in this day and age, the office and parks and recreation are the, are these crazy juggernauts that, you know, make me sorry that, uh, our union was at a very weak place when we started parks and rec. And so they gave us these shrug deals where they were like, you know, we're,

in no position like you have no leverage you should just take what they offer

And also, we're going to bargain away your residuals. Have a good day. See you. I know. No, we're with those two shows just go in perpetuity like you can't believe drive hundreds of millions of dollars. And look, we do fine. Nobody needs to hold a benefit for either one of us. But I think people would be shocked to know that for the most part, Ron Swanson and Chris Traeger are.

Not really participating. The deals that the, the sort of famous deals that came out of the cast negotiating together with friends and everybody loves Raymond and even willing grace that the network said, Whoa, this is, these actors are getting paid way too fairly. I remember vividly on West wing. So West wing comes out and, um,

In the soundstage next door, I was walking by one day and the network had delivered a Range Rover with a bow on it to Melina Kanakaridis for her amazing work and success in a show called, I believe, Providence. Yeah. So this is the climate we're living in. And West Wing comes out and it wins the Emmy in its first year. First time a show had ever done that.

Most nominations in the history of television to that time. It is a top 10 show and probably the best reviewed show of the last 20 years. Warner Brothers at this time is about to be bought or with AOL. It's going to be AOL and Time Warner now, right? So this is like it's a big, heady show.

Goldmine and for any youngsters listening, AOL stands for America Online. Yeah. And people loved it back in the day. And we get it. We're at work one day. We just won all the Emmys, I think. And and the we got to notice the head of the studio and network is coming down and wants to see us all in the Roosevelt room set. And they're going to be giving us something.

And so I'm so excited. I cannot believe how excited I am. And I remember I was with the great late, great John Spencer. I don't think I've ever worked with a better actor than Johnny who played, right? Leo McGarry. He could do more with the words. Thank you, Mr. President. Then most actors could do with 10 pages of brilliant writing. Anyway, such a throwback, such a throwback. So Johnny and I are sitting in the Roosevelt room and,

The whole crew and the cast is there and we're gathering. I remember it was so hot and we're waiting and we're waiting and we're burning money. We should be shooting. We're waiting and we're waiting and guys with suits come in and walkie talkies and security guys. They're coming. They're coming to five minutes out there on their way there. Finally, the head of the studio comes in and he says, I just am so proud of what you all are accomplishing here.

What you are doing on the West Wing is a flag bearer, not only for Warner Brothers and our new partners, AOL Time Warner, but for the industry at large. And as a token of our appreciation for this world-breaking success, we have the following. And then he gestures to somebody who wheels in like a room service cart and

with a blanket over it. And they wheel it in as like, and John Spencer and I had been debating like what kind of cars we were going to get, like Molina Canacarides on Providence. Right. And they wheel in this tray and Spencer turns to me and goes, I don't think we're getting cars. And the president literally says,

Voila! And pulls the blanket off. It's a single serving espresso maker. And not one for everyone. One. One for the green. To be shared. It broke down two weeks later and we found out it was rented. Hold that thought. We'll be right back.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. When people came into parks, we had so many hitters come in. I mean, you'd turn around and there'd be, you know, whoever. Was there anybody that ever came through? You were like, oh boy, I got to like get it together. Well, the first one that springs to mind was, was, uh,

not dissimilar from the Ted experience. And that was Sam Elliott. Yeah. The yoga man. He was like a yoga guy in our show, right? Yeah. He, they, the, the idea was they were, they wanted Ron's doppelganger, like, like bizarro Ron Swanson, Eagleton Ron. Oh, Eagleton, right. Yeah, of course. So for every, for everything that was like manly and, and conservative about Ron Swanson, it,

uh, Eagleton Ron was, it was a peace Nick, you know, vegan flower child. I did a scene where I came into your office and he was in a Lotus pose, I think. Yeah, totally. And, um, and the first day, I mean, when Mike sure came and told me, you know, he told me about the role and cause often he'd say, Hey, we, we came up with this idea and we would talk about casting ideas and try to come up with, you know, the best ideas. Um,

And then in this case, he came up to me a few days later and said, so we've cast, we got the part, guess who it is. And so to be told, you know, that it's,

a crazily someone who's been my hero for decades. I mean, not like the big Lebowski in my circle is the Mount Olympus of, you know, Jeff Bridges and John Goodman and Buscemi and Totoro and Sam Elliott. Like those are the gold medals of my lifetime of what you could do.

But then going back to like Mask and Roadhouse and like Sam Elliott was also just this awesome, badass cowboy actor that was still extant. Like he was coming to our show. Yeah. And so I was pretty nervous about getting to meet Sam. And this is hilariously how it would go so often on the set of Parks and Rec. His first day, I went into the makeup trailer where he was,

And before I could even start, he got up and was like, oh, God damn it. I can't believe it. I love you so much. I am so excited. And he starts in. I'm like, no, whoa, whoa, shut, shush. Hang on. Time's.

you don't get to do, you know, Sam Elliott, let me take me. You are the man, you know? And so he immediately like broke the ice so beautifully and we're still dear friends. Like I embraced him. He's, he's such a beautiful spirit. He's such a great guy. Um, and, and so that assuaged my hugest fear. I thought the, I was, was felt that way when, uh,

When Bill Murray showed up on our show, I was like, wait, I'm sorry. Who's playing the mayor? Bill Murray. Wait. And so he's coming here and basically he's just going to sit in a fucking coffin. You got Bill Murray to come here and get in the coffin. Really? Unbelievable. So funny. Such a baller move. I always loved when Mike Schur would come like he did with you and

He'd run casting ideas by us because we did a storyline where my character, Chris Traeger, was seeing a psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Nygaard. Who could forget his name? Who could forget? I actually have a plaque in my office here of certification from Dr. Richard Nygaard still. And so there's a lot of talk about who should be Dr. Richard Nygaard. And we were trying to get Leonard Nimoy. Oh, my God.

How great would Dr. Richard Nygaard be Leonard Nimoy? And then the great Alan Yang, who went on to create Master of None with Aziz, he had the best idea ever. That Dr. Richard Nygaard should be played by me. Of course. And Chris has been seeing an alternate version of himself. So that was...

The other thing I always loved about park is Mike Schur's obsession with names. Yeah. Oh, like you write. I, I, I, when I write the names of the, I'm bad at them. I don't really care, but I once wrote a script in the first 30 pages was man and woman and then went back. But Mike is obsessed with people's names and he does a great job of them. The first, um, the very first episode of parks and rec, we were, you know, we're all like, it's, it's like, uh,

We're a bunch of orphans and we've been selected to crew David Geffen's yacht. And so we're on the first week of like, oh my God, you guys come here. There's a whole, there's a pool table down here. Like everyone's figuring out all the bells and whistles of this set on our soundstage and we're shooting and, you know, we're just giggling and going crazy. And in the middle of, in the middle of one day,

day, like a big group scene, Mike said, okay, you guys, I think you got it. Have fun.

But I have to go because right outside the bullpen in the hallway is just this wall of like 48 previous parks directors or like city council members or something. Just one of the, just one of those municipal, like the elders. I remember it. Yep. And he was like, I have to go do the greatest thing I ever will.

will get to do. And that has come up with 48 names or however many there were. And to this day, oh my God. And some of those photos were like the producers, Morgan Sackett and Dan Gore was up there and Greg Daniels. And I mean, Mike takes such a perverse pleasure. And one of the, I wrote one episode and when we were in the,

when we were in the writer's room going over stuff, it just becomes a point of obsession. There was a family, a fictional family in the town with the last name of Lerpuss, L-E-R-P-U-S-S. And so if you go through the credits of Parks and Rec, there's, I don't know, 20 or 30 Lerpusses. I was going to say, I feel like I heard that name a lot on the show. Yeah. Harold, two or three of them, Mike could tell us

Two or three of them ended up coming back four or five times. So it would be like the waitress or Harold Lurpis who ran the funeral parlor or whatever. And we had a riff in the writer's room. It was so stupid. It was the greatest example. I always think of when people talk about how

you can just get everyone puking laughing with just late night stupidity in the writer's room. We were extrapolating a new Lurpus name. Like, you know, I mean, this is like two years into the run of the Lurpus family.

And, you know, the pinnacle of stupidity that it reached was something like a waitress, a waitress named Melissa Kiss-da-Snerp-a-Ler-piss. Yeah.

And it was all spelled out phonetically, which is just absolute nonsense. But we all, and somebody like types it out and it projects up on the board and we all were on the floor. I always wondered what it was like to write on, I mean, I've been in a lot of writer's rooms, but to write on that show.

But that amount of – if you go back and look at the credits of Parks and Rec, that writer's room is the 1927 New York Yankees for comedy. It's pretty crazy, yeah. It's crazy. And then you walk in there and you get to write an episode. I mean –

It's a lot of silliness, I think, too, right? I mean, as you just alluded to. Well, it is. I mean, everybody has, they have to have a competence when it comes to like dealing with structure and putting together a story that plays out neatly over three or four acts, over 22 minutes. But they also just have this unbridled silliness. That is something, one of the great things about the episode I got to write

I learned the lesson that I'll never be successful at being one of them. I directed a couple episodes as well. And again, it just felt like, you know, people say, what was that like? Do you know, do you aspire to do some more directing and so forth? And I said, I love doing it, but it's not like I was there out of my merits as a writer or director, because I hadn't done it before.

before in that genre. And it was like getting to drive again, a really comfortable boat where somebody had already figured it all out and we're going, we're on our tack. And somebody's like, here, do you want to hold the wheel? That's exactly what it's like. And you're like, so well said. I'm driving, I'm driving the beautiful boat. That's exactly right. That's what people always say. They do this. Do you want to direct a Lone Star or whatever? It's like,

I direct something that I've built. Like, I don't know if it floats. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're like thrilled. But when they hand you the keys to that boat Ferrari. Okay, so we did an episode together. You were my director. Was I difficult? No, you weren't. Amy, when you first, I always remember this quote, because Amy said,

uh, polar has such a great acumen when it comes to showbiz. Like it's like when, when people were at SNL,

If you, you know, if you keep your shit together and keep your head on straight, SNL is the most incredible boot camp for a career in show business, whether you go into television or films or touring. Because you see everything. You see everything. You're exposed to everything. It's everything. And not just, I mean, you've got like Olympic gold medalists coming through. You've got presidential camp nominees coming through. Like,

And everything is breakneck and like up all night. It's just a madhouse 24-7.

And so she always struck me as like the scrappy shortstop of the, of the bad news bears that is the cast and writers of SNL. Cause she sees the field. She, you know, she's the one calling out like, okay, we've got two down force at home. You know, she, she knows what's going on. Yep. And I, I always from the get go on our show,

I would see her just do things from a sort of sibling, familial perspective.

leadership role where like she'd see somebody on set and me is just an actor lifelong actor it's not my place like why is that weird representative from after a set like we're trying to do this scene and this somebody's there like trying to drum up votes or something and I'm like that's weird but you don't it doesn't occur to me to do what Amy did which is she's like hey who's that guy why is that guy here

We're trying to work here. And she goes over to the boss, like Morgan Saget to the producer and says,

Get rid of this guy. Like, we're all happy to deal with our union and we're supportive of our union, but not here. Like, this is not the time nor place. And I would say, oh, yeah, that's our place. That's our prerogative to say, please keep our set free of distractions like that. And so early on when you came to our show, you quickly established yourself as –

Someone who had done this for a very long time, like the first or second day we were watching you operate. And Amy said, he's been very good at being a professional for a very long time. And I thought that it always shows. You just know what you're doing. I mean, you're a veteran. I love hearing that. I love that.

Yeah, you discern, you get your scenes, you get your schedule, and you're like, okay.

Here's what time I'm going to arrive. Can I please have a black coffee and a cup of espresso? You get a little cup and a big cup. Yeah, I get a little cup and a big cup. I got a cup of milk, usually half and half, and the espresso because I trust no one to mix it but myself. You're probably not dissimilar from riding in Christopher Walken's Cadillac.

I love that. I remember coming in and –

I because it was it was going to be it was like we were going to do six episodes, I guess. And then we're all going to reconnoiter and see if it was a good fit. And and I remember doing the flu episode and and saying, stop pooping in the mirror. I think you were on set that day. I feel like you were there. What I feel like you were like at the monitor then. And I thought, this is great. I'm having fun here. I can be a total idiot. It's just the best.

Yeah, it really is. I mean, based on that statistic you cited earlier, 99 point. What's the percentage? It's like it's nine. It's it's ninety seven. Ninety eight. Ninety nine percent of all people in the Screen Actors Guild can't support themselves just from acting. So so given that statistic, then to.

to imagine getting a job that's going to last for seven-ish years, 125 episodes, that you, you know, that is something that would quite possibly be your favorite show, even if you weren't involved. Yep. That percentage, I mean, is just infinitesimal. It really was so, it was so fun. I mean, I...

I love working. I have a Midwestern work ethic as you do. Like, I feel best when I'm getting, when I'm productive and like contributing, you know, to the world and to my household. But that, I've never had a job like that where you'd work a 12 hour day, which is very tiring. It's, it's, it's,

Very hard work. It's 12 hours, legitimately 12 hours of work. Yeah. And it's something that people can never understand. I mean, I've shoveled blacktop for a living and I've framed houses. I've worked as a laborer.

And so, of course, like there's nothing backbreaking per se about acting, but the ability to learn five or eight pages of material for the next day's work is

then be made up into some sort of, even if, even if you look natural, they've done your hair, they've done your makeup and it's up to you to maintain that across 12 hours and maintain, let's say you're doing a scene, let's say me and you were doing a scene walking down the hallway and you get a cup of coffee, you know,

If we're shooting that on the West Wing or shooting that on a movie, that scene might take three days or five days. On Parks and Rec, let's say it's going to take two or three hours.

You have to maintain the same focus, the same wattage out of your light bulb so that the work is consistent, so that it can be cut together, etc., etc. So at the end of 12 hours, even if I'm around Swanson and I've literally been sitting at my desk for 12 hours and I only have like seven lines of dialogue, maintaining the focus...

to simply achieve that is something you can never describe to people. It's, it's, it's like, you know, it's like being on a Skype call with your parents, but you can't shut it off. You're always being scrutinized. Yeah. Well, the other thing is if you are not present, by the way, being present in real time in life,

is the single hardest thing to do in life. There it is. Right? And then acting is totally predicated upon that very premise that we all chase. I spent hundreds of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars probably over the years in therapy trying to be present in my own life. Yeah. And if you can't do that as an actor...

You're not going to be very successful and try being present 12 hours a day every day. You know, it's it's that is the thing. It's hard to input to impart, I should say, to people. It is. I mean, you know, no question. It's the fact that we get to do this makes us the luckiest possible boys running. It's it's unbelievable.

But at the same time, it's not sitting around with our feet up. You know, it is it does require it is like playing a professional sport. Well, and the other thing and then then I'll wrap up. But the other thing is, is that is that it requires longevity in this business requires being able to reinvent yourself. And and that's one of the things I've I've always, again, admired not only about you, but but about.

the people in parks is everybody just had this uncanny ability to reinvent themselves, particularly from characters who became so iconic.

And, you know, your your work now that you're doing is bears no resemblance to Ron and Ron was so iconic and and everybody up and down the line on that in that call sheet. It's it's you have to there's no putting your feet up. The world will pass you by. You got to you got to keep surprising people. That's that's part of the drill. And you are able to do that maybe better than anybody I know.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I mean, I'll throw that right back at you. You, I mean, even while we were doing parks, the, I forget the guys, I forget that guy's name on Californication. Oh, Eddie Nero. Oh, I mean, yeah.

But that's it. I mean, especially in the thing is the landscape keeps changing so drastically every month with social media and, and content delivery systems, you know, now there's, now there's Queeby and episodes are, are 3.5 minutes or whatever the new, the new morsel bite size is. And I, I'm just grateful that,

It seems impossible to me because Parks and Rec has been as successful and indelible as it has been.

The rules I grew up with, I'm not supposed to get to do more stuff because Ron Swanson worked really well. And so I'm very grateful that the world is allowing me to like put on a wig or, you know, change up my gait and get another swing at it. Yeah. And it's always fun.

To watch Nicholas Offerman. You're the best for coming on my, my podcast. Literally give your, my love to your amazing wife. We have to do part two so we can do the whole episode talking about our mutual love for Tammy, Tammy slash Megan. Oh God. She's just literally when they talk, when you talk about one of a kind, I mean, right. We both married one of a kind women.

That's for sure. That's why we're still married. Yeah, no, it's true. It keeps us on our feet and on our toes. How many years have you been married now? We've been married 17 and together 20. Un-fucking-believable. See, it can be done, even in Hollywood. It can be done. It can be done. You can be married 17 years in Hollywood. You can be a farm boy from Illinois, California.

With three stations and no cool records and nobody in the business. And you can end up on the Mount Rushmore of sitcom characters. By God. It can happen. Keep your mind in my manners. That's right. Keep minding your manners. Nick, thank you. Love you, buddy. My pleasure. Give our love to Cheryl. All right.

Well, that was fun. I do love that man so much and have from the minute I laid eyes on him. And one of the great takeaways about talking to Nick and now that he's signed off, I can talk about him behind his back. So that's what's really great. Is Nick Offerman on paper growing up how and where he grew up? You don't go, hey, bro, you're going to end up on the Mount Rushmore of comedy icons.

And I just think it's great for people who have, you know, dreams or have a calling that seems so unlikely. That stuff happens. 100% happens. And, you know, there's a world in which Nick

You know, listens to the haters, as the kids would say. And, you know, he's still on the farm. But instead, we get lucky. And he gives us Ron Swanson and all the characters he continues to. And I'm inspired by that. I'm really, really inspired by people who may not necessarily tick every box, you know, of what they do.

want to do and they persevere and inspire anyway. So I love talking to Nick and I loved having you listen. And thanks for listening to Literally with me, Rob Lowe, yours truly. You have been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Devin Tory Bryant.

Executive produced by Rob Lowe for Lowe Profile. Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco. And Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blairt. Talent producer, Jennifer Sampas. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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