Paul Scheer: Phyllis Diller’s Chili
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Screwed. It's really fucked you up. Lisa fucked me up. Yeah. Went from Ohio to Malibu. Culture shock. And yeah, I'm getting... This one is one I'm getting. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. The very hilarious Paul Scheer is with us today. I always love when we have the comics. And by the way, calling him a comic is...

Somehow debasing because he has an amazing book coming out. He's a producer. He's a director. But let me say this. When I have funny people, I love me some funny people. And this is one of the funniest. And I'm really looking forward to catching up with Paul Scheer. This is it. This is it, brother. I mean, people are tuning in like the end of MASH. By the way, which was apparently...

Did you know that? I did not know that. Look at that. This is like the cosmic, the repo man played a clams moment here. It's all come together. It's all come together. I've 40, however many, 45 years, whatever it was, I just read it. By the way, can I just, here's my hot take. Never watched MASH. Never, never saw it.

Felt like my parents show did not like it. Like it felt depressing to me. Yes. You know, right. It didn't feel like my different strokes. It didn't feel like silver spoons. I wanted laughter. Come on. Well, and that, well, that was part of the problem. There was laughter. There was, where are those people in the tent that are laughing? I mean, it's interesting because it was a multicam laugh track in a single cam show. And honestly, it's on location on location. Yeah.

with a very depressing theme song. I mean, that's the thing. I think that that's, that suicide is painless. That opening. As a kid, I was like, I'm out. I'm out. And listen, not to be a horny young teenager, which I was when I was watching it, but the opening shot of the female soldier running with her breast bouncing. Yeah.

It was like, I walked into a deli once, you know, like delis and dry cleaners always have like signed celebrity. And there was a still of that woman running. Oh my God. Signed. And I thought that was one of the coolest. I mean, that's a great get for a deli or a lingerie. Have you ever given a signed celebrity?

uh picture to one of those places i've been asked by my my laundromat to do it i felt very honored but then i felt the pressure like which picture am i gonna pick because i know it's not gonna age well because the sun's gonna hit it and then you know in 25 years they never take them down no and they're so it's like there's something about the faded black and white headshot um

In LA, do you ever go to, what's the pizza place I love so much? Yes. I know that pizza place in like Eagle Rock, right? Well, the one I'm talking about is actually in Beverly Hills and it's Kathy Moriarty's ex-husband from Raging Bull. So there's all that vintage. It's so great. It's my favorite pizza. But there's a lot of like faded Scott Baio pizza.

like, you know, as 19 year old. And yes, I think you need to re-up. Like the way I would say is like, if you give that, you have to, you have to go in every five or 10 years and just give a new picture because it's our responsibility to, to take away some of that. You know, I think we have to do it. My mom. Wait, you don't have anxiety about what you write. I have way more anxiety about what I write, what the inscription is.

A million percent. I don't know how funny to be. Then I get too verbose and then it's too much writing. I have to really think about it before. Do you have a staple thing that you write when you sign something? I did for years, but I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage because I realized that I'm basically almost 60, but I'm doing a lot of the stuff that

that I've been doing since I was 15, which is when I first started signing autographs, I was 15. Right. So I signed like a fucking 15-year-old, I realize. Your signature gets caught in like an amber, like it doesn't evolve. Like once you got it, you got it. No. So my go-to for years was All My Love, Rob Lowe. But that feels very, from a 60-year-old, it's what it was. It feels like Tiger Beat. It feels like Bop Magazine.

But I have to say, like, you exude this really nice, like, hearing it from you doesn't feel creepy. I think as if you get that from a 16-year-old, you think, oh, my gosh, all my love. But you hear it from you now. You're like, oh, this guy's a good dude. All my love. Yes, of course, all my love. Of course. You know, I think I need, like, a catchphrase. Like, maybe just cheers. Cheers.

Oh, that's really good. Because you know why? It's unisex. Yeah. It's like all my love. Really? All my love. Really? Forget about my children. All my love is going to you, laundromat.

Yeah, it just seems so disingenuous now. But then you can't shorten it to love because then it's like, ooh, I don't know. Too much. Yeah. Way too much. And you don't want to just make it your name. You want to show like, oh, we had some sort of connection. Yes.

But it's hard. You want to be original. And look, you have books. I imagine you did book signings. Yes. In doing book signings, did you feel pressure? No. Okay. No. In book signings, because you're getting through, there's so many to be done and you want to make sure everybody who's there gets one. Right.

So that was what I used to make me feel better about just signing, literally just signing, signing my name. Just got the moment. You got the moment and you're in. You don't have to put any personalization. I get freaked out about names. Even if you tell me like Rob Lowe is an easy name for me to remember. Two Bs? It's Rob with two Bs, dude. Oh, Rob with two Bs. That's tricky. And it's L apostrophe.

O-W-E. I'm like, please write it down and I'll copy it exactly. But if I'm forced to do a spelling assignment down there, it would be as hard as doing math. I can't do it. It's too much pressure. I'm trying to make something happen here. I can't. Spelling and math.

Listen, for everybody out there who doesn't spell well, I was able to write, as you were, bestseller authors. We don't know how to spell. No. I mean, thank God for an editor. Thank God for grammar check. I mean, you need it. I mean, look, I think if you are not a good speller or good at math, chances are you'll probably become some sort of actor, somebody in this business because...

It's the only time you don't really need to use it. It's really true. And spelling has nothing to do with writing. Literally nothing. You, I know you, I've read your books, but I know that you, you know, you had a very interesting youth, but did you ever do a spelling bee when you were like before? How old were you? Insane child. I...

Look, I was a pleasure to have in class. I was. Yes, of course. I always sat in the front row, raised my hand. I was a good little boy. And I was very good at a very limited amount of academics. Very good. Okay. Like...

Somebody once described, I got tested once and they said, your mind is like a Ferrari trying to tow an anvil. That's a beautiful way of looking at things, right? I mean, because I feel like I had that as well. It's like, I'm going so fast and it's like, how do you slow down? I would much prefer...

like a conversation over a test. Tests were hard. I remember, I do have this memory of me doing a spelling bee where the word, it was first round, easy. Everyone stays up on the first round. It was an inter-school spelling bee. It was, you know, nothing major, but, and I was so cocky. I was like, got this, got it wrong. Oh no. Just got it wrong immediately. And I did it again. Just recently, I was on Wheel of Fortune.

A dream, a dream come true. And there was a word up there and it was like thrilling water slides. But I said, thrilling water slide. And I was like, no, I knew it, but there's sometimes that small disconnect. I was right there and missed it by a letter. So,

You just made me think of something that I've never, ever, I've never told this story, ever, which is, I feel like I've worked through every story a thousand times, but I was a little kid in school, spelling bees, all that stuff. I participated in almost everything, but anything having to do with spelling and math. And one day they came, I was probably in the, I'm going to say I'm in the second grade, probably. And they go, there's a school talent show. And I was like, oh yes, finally. It's not math. It's not spelling.

I wasn't good at sports when I was young. Yeah. A talent show. I'm so in. And I... So then they do... Then there was an audition, right? After school, you go and think... And I got there and what... Somehow, I guess I really didn't know what a talent show was. I'd never seen one. Yeah. And...

I thought you'd walk in and they'd have categories. I don't know what I, I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. You could like align yourself with something. Oh, I'm going to go over to the tent over here where people are sewing buttons or, oh, I'll go here where like, this is like jokes or, oh, over here, these guys are doing trivia. I want to be in. I had no idea. And they go, okay, Rob Lowe. Oh God.

I, to saying it again, I've never told this, my heart right now, I'm having such anxiety right now. So, and I'll never forget being in a circle of those little tiny chairs that little kids sat in and I had to go, I don't know what I'm going to do, what my talent is. I know I've got some talent, but I don't, I don't know anything. So the best thing that I could do was I had recently done like a

pantomime class at some local kids theater. Okay. So I just, this is the most cringy story in the history. I just started like pantomiming stuff with no point, purpose, no beginning, middle, or end, nothing. And finally, whoever was running, it just took some pity on me, said, hey, why don't you sit down? And, you know, and then I remember running away.

All right, well, Rob, I can match you a little bit and say that this is a little, I'm a little older in this moment and I'm just starting to audition for commercials and stuff like this, right? I'm in New York City and no, I'm older. So I'm in probably in my early twenties and I had watched this documentary about, I think it was about Robin Williams and they had the producers of Happy Days on the show. And they said, you know, Robin Williams, he was unlike anybody else when he came in.

He did his scene for Mork on Happy Days, which was, you know, on his head. And we couldn't get him out of our head work. Oh, my God, what a choice. He did it on his head because Mork, of course, wouldn't know how to sit. He would sit on his head. So I don't take the lesson from that, which is just to be interesting. I take the literal lesson, which is do something on your head. Amazing. Yes.

So I go in for this Skittles commercial. Amazing. And there's a chair and I'm going to sit in this, but the chair has wheels on it. And I've never practiced getting on my head. I don't know how to get on my head, but I'm like, I'm going to get on my head for a Skittles commercial on a rolly chair. And I'm trying to mount it. And I like, it's...

it's, you know, try to picture going on your head on a roller chair. I'm like wrestling with this chair for far too long for like a two line Skittles commercial. And casting director's like, you know what?

why don't you just, you don't even need the chair. And now I'm sweating. Cause now I'm like, oh, I've now I've, I thought I had it. Skittles is fun and crazy. And I'm like, and I'm like, and it was just the most soul crushing moment of like, I'm trying to be different and I can't, I was, and you could, when the room feels that way, you know, it's like, thank God for that casting director to be like, let's stop. Let's stop that. And let's move forward.

But I remember that moment. The sheer shame of it all. All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

We do put ourselves in these moments where you just, you eat it, you eat it. And I mean, I eat it as a dad. I eat it as an actor, you know, and these are these moments where you just like,

It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. Yeah. I coached my son's rec league basketball team. And the kids were like, why don't you shoot and we'll try to defend. And I was like, great. And I put up a shot there.

That was so atrociously bad. Like that was like, I've never seen basketball. I didn't know what I was holding. I didn't even know where the hoop was. And some kid, the kid on my team was like, were you trying to make it that bad?

And of course, I was like, yes. I mean, yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. Of course, I make it bad. I've got to get you better than that. I want to show you what not to do. It's like those moments are, especially when you get called out by a kid. When a kid sees you, sees exactly what you're doing wrong, it's the worst. It's not good. I wish that there was, maybe we'll start this. You and I will do the podcast of this together, where it's actors' most embarrassing audition stories. Oh, yeah.

How sick would that be? Or, by the way, or boldest, most successful, the one I always hear about that I'm kind of obsessed with, and I know eventually I'll meet him and I'll ask him, is Silence of the Lambs. It's one of my favorite movies. Yeah, love it. Ted Levine plays Buffalo Bill. Oh, yeah. Have you heard this story? No, I haven't, and I'm excited. I heard he came in to audition for Buffalo Bill.

He puts the lotion on its butt, whatever the fuck it, right? Amazing. And they're like, thank you. And he goes, you know, I did have one other instinct. They're like, oh, by all means. Walks out, comes back in, he's nude, and he's tucked his penis between his legs and does the famous... That dance. The famous dance. See, I would never have, never have the courage to do that. If that's true, it's the greatest...

audition story ever. Oh my God. I mean, that really does kick it up a notch. I know that you produce stuff. I've been on the other side. I've directed and I've produced and I've been on the other side and watching people audition. I think you learn the most about auditioning by watching people because you realize, and I think that's something I always try to tell people like,

Very rarely are there bad auditions. It's just like, are you right for it or are you not right for it? Sometimes things stick out. Sometimes things fit in perfectly. Like it's no rhyme or reason. It actually makes you feel better in auditioning, right? You either got it or you don't.

So I was auditioning kids and auditioning kids is a whole other thing because, you know, they are, they're young, they're fragile. You want to have fun with them. And there's a sketch for human giant, which is a sketch comedy show I did with Aziz Ansari and Rob Hubel. Two of my favorites. The best and directed by Jason Walner. And the sketch was, I'm this

billionaire businessman who is driving through a small town. I stopped to get some lemonade and it's so good that I basically buy this girl's lemonade and like make her into like a sweatshop. I'm making her make like so much and I'm, and I'm making such profit off of her thing. Um,

And at one point she's not making enough lemonade. So I go back and visit her lemonade stand and I grab her dog and I break its neck and I go, keep up the production. You know, it's so dark and weird. And so we were auditioning that scene and I, you know, and we're like, so when we do that, we want you to, you know, we really want to feel you sad. Like I just killed your dog and you know, that, you know, we're, we're kind of setting up the premise just to see if she can play these levels.

Yeah, sure. And she's like, okay, well, let me take a second. She walks out and we do a couple more auditions. She comes back and she's ready. We start the scene within the first line, tears pouring down her face. She's uncontrollably crying. And we're like, oh, stop it. Are you okay? Okay. And she's like, I just, I just was thinking about my real dog and my real dog just died. And my dad told me to think about when we had to put him down. And I was like, oh,

Oh, no. It's this moment of this girl going through this intense trauma for this dumb comedy sketch. And we're like, oh, it's okay. It's okay. And then we didn't cast her. Yes. And now she cries over that. Yeah. You know, look, she couldn't keep it together. And that's it. That was a hard lesson learned for that six-year-old.

I remember auditioning for Robert Redford, one of my heroes. Oh, wow. Quiz show was the name of the movie. Great movie. And this was very, very, so long ago that it was an almost unheard of request that he had that everybody go on tape and not be in person. Oh, wow. Like now that's what everybody does. But then it was like unheard of and like, oh, dare he? But he's Robert Redford and whatever. Yeah.

And I now realize why I'm super, super uncomfortable in auditions for other actors. Like when I'm the producer, I hate it. I hate it. I'd rather be auditioning myself. Right. Because it's like you want, because it also feels like they're trying to, and in these moments, it's like connect with you. But then you're like, I don't, I, it's like, you know, it's, yeah, it's a very, it's a tricky position. It's very hard. You've been on both sides. That's very hard.

By the way, your background is amazing. It looks like the set of, like, it looks like the, and I know we're not, nobody can see it, but trust me, it looks like Darren Stevens. Yeah, I'm in a bewitched library. In a bewitched, yeah, psychiatrist library. Can we go back to MASH for a minute? Yeah, please. Why, why, why the song? Can you imagine playing that today? We'd walk into the...

I mean, the notes that you would get on that. It's so, I was so depressed, so depressed by that show. I felt like it was the cue for me to walk out of the room. I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house growing up. And when that came on, I was like, all right, I'm out. I'll see you in 25 minutes. Why did people love that show so much? It was really this cultural phenomenon and MASH to me,

I love Robert Altman. And, you know, and I've seen, I saw the movie and I saw the TV show and neither of them really appealed to me. Like, I just, it was just something else. You know, I think that it was just over my head or it just didn't fit in my... Now, here's the, but on the other hand, I'm just going to bet. Yeah. That you were a Hogan's Heroes fan.

oh, well, that's funny. I mean, and that seems to me an older show. Like, I would love watching it because it's sillier. It's fun. Yeah, it's army. It's good. Well, it's a Nazi death camp, but yeah. Well, sure, right. I mean, by the way, that is always, to me, the best part of it. That was a sick... Could you imagine pitching... I mean, I would actually like to see that sitcom now, but you could never get away with that. It would be a fun place for some jokes and ensemble comedy in a Nazi death camp. Oh, great. That

Let's go for it. It's unbelievable. And based on a movie. It was, of course, Starlog 17, I guess, was the movie it was based on. Not a comedy. Not a comedy. Yeah, not at all. I love that idea, too, to be like, we got this great drama. Let's just bring it in here and like, let's, you know, let's just find the fun of it. Let's just get in there.

Do you know what I found recently? I spent too much time on YouTube going down wormholes, but I saw the alternative opening to Gilligan's Island. Whoa. Now that was a show I was obsessed with. Wait, now what is that like? It's insane. First of all, they shot an entire pilot and scrapped it. Okay. So different casting or some of the same and some of the guy? Some the same, some not. But the song, and I wish I could remember it, is amazingly bad. Like it's not...

the famous song that we know. Yeah. But it's, it's like sort of Popeye, the sailor man vibes. And it's very specific about the, the journey, like 15 leagues and 75. It's really, it's so bizarre. I love it. It's such a tricky thing, right? Because I don't know if these songs are good or bad, but they, they live within me. I've been listening to Barbara Streisand's book. Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's,

48 hours. First of all, Barbara is a longtime friend, first of all. So there will be no Barbara Haight on this podcast. Oh, there's not a single ounce of Barbara Haight. It is a full-on celebration. I am savoring every hour. I mean, I mentioned that it's 48 hours because I was like, wow, 48 hours, but...

I just was listening to this part last night, and it's great to hear her talk about it because I feel like she's... You're sitting in a room with her. She's telling it very casually. Yes. How about how slow and deliberate she is? Oh, so... It's beautiful. As a fan, I love it. But what I was so blown away by was she was talking about, and this all brings it back together here, working with Robert Redford on The Way We Were and creating that song Memories. Yes. And how...

The original song was too downbeat. And she's like, no, you can't be that. And she really walks you through the creation of that song. And then she adds this little bow at the end. She's like, and then as we're working on the song, I go, what if memories is the first word of the song? And it was just a great way to see how they... You saw the song in three versions. This classic song that everyone knows the melody of. And...

how they really workshopped every little bit of it. I was so impressed by that and so kind of blown away because she's really, I mean, she's fascinating on so many levels. Oh, yeah. But that was really, that kind of just blew me away just to see that her knowledge of that and like kind of picking out what the theme of that song was. And, you know, and I just called it memories, but it's not memories. You know, I think it's the way we were. Yeah. And, but I just, I love that like,

One thing can just go wrong or so right. And there you go. You get Gilligan's Island, the one that we love, sit back right back and you hear a tale where you get, you know, 77 fathoms and, you know, three, 35 nautical knots. Off of Port, Port Wainimi. The other thing about, about Gilligan's Island is, and you know this, you get on a TV show.

And maybe you're in the ensemble and the show becomes a hit. So you go back and you ask for more money and then you ask to be in the song. Well, yeah, the song. I mean, the song is the way to go. Because the original is the movie star and the rest, the two more people. Oh, wow. And the rest, there's two...

There's two more people. It doesn't take much. And indeed, in the next season, the professor and Marianne. That's the way to go. But the best is the movie star and the rest. And the rest is hilarious because there's only two more. There's only two more. Why can't we just add their names? It's not like lost. It's not like 30 more people. It's two. No.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers, passport. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton Honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Were you in L.A. early enough back in the day to go to Alan Hale's Lobster Barrel on L.A.?

Oh my God, no, no, no, no. I'm a New Yorker. And now that you say it, I feel a deep sense of regret of not being able to go there. Alan Hale's Lobster Barrel.

Okay, so is this a situation where Alan Hale is, this is the skipper from Gilgan's Island. Is he going, is he like around? Like, you know, if you go to Pump, you might see Lisa Vanderpump, you know, but like, would you see Alan Hale just sitting at the bar?

Shaking hands? I was too young. I was taking the bus into my little auditions, but I would pass it all the time, wondering if I could see the skipper if I went in. Yeah. And then in Beverly Hills at this time was Carol O'Connor's Ginger Man.

Oh, wow. You see, this is, this is the, why don't TV stars do that anymore? Well, I live right down the block from Dinah's fried chicken, Dinah Shore's fried chicken. Wait a minute, wait. Dinah's fried chicken is Dinah Shore's fried chicken? I thought it was, right? Oh, maybe now am I wrong about this? No, I think you're right because it's her signature now that I know it, which comes back to autographs, which comes back to the fact that I always thought, really? Dinah, it's a D, a line, and an H. There it is.

I mean, I thought that, you know, I thought the Dinah Shore, I mean, I've always envisioned Dinah Shore being there. Yeah. I'm looking it up right now and make sure. Opened in 1967. It's got to be. It's got to be. And let's say, and you know what? I live in a world where sometimes I'm like, I don't want to know if I'm wrong because it's enough. It seems funny enough to say it is right. Oh, I want to understand. Okay. So if we right now could change the world. Mm-hmm.

What celebrities restaurant would we want to go to? This is interesting. Like what, like, what, like, is it like what celebrity, like what would make us the happiest, right? Like, or is it like, yeah, like I'm trying to think. Like Leonardo DiCaprio's falafels. I like that. I mean, you know, I just saw Quentin Tarantino also down the block from me just opened a

Coffee's coffee, which is like Pam Greer. It's a Pam Greer theme. From that movie, yeah. Right, yeah. Coffee shop. I like that. I like something that has a little bit of that pizzazz. You'll see them. There may be this thing. They might be hanging out there. I feel like oftentimes it's a steakhouse, but I think we could do something. You're right. Something that could be a little bit more fun. We could do...

Amy, Amy Polar's, well, it would be Amy Polar's Waffle House. I mean, I think you were right at the first time. Polar's Pancakes. Polar's Pancakes.

I mean, that's, you know, that's going to bring you in. And I think that, yeah, I think you need to have something that's more general. No steak, no lobster. We need to go breakfast. But yeah, that's where it's the opening of all, you know, you always get good pancakes there. It's like DuPars. My brother and I always laugh about this. Our grandpa, who was like our second father, was a restaurateur in Ohio. And he ran a place called The Spot Restaurant. Still exists. It's a historical landmark now in...

Sydney, Ohio. He ran it for 65 years or something. And he famously turned down his best buddy's offer to franchise his best buddy's hamburger stand that became Wendy's. What did he not like about it? Did he ever say why? Who knows? But he was hell-bent on making a franchise with his high school classmate

Phyllis Diller's chili. Oh my gosh. When you think of Phyllis Diller, I don't know about you, but I go, oh, I wonder if she makes really good chili. Yeah, Phyllis Diller and chili don't work. If you said Paul Newman's chili, like I buy Paul Newman made some good chili. Like Phyllis Diller doesn't feel like, oh, I got some good chili for you. I'm not sure you want to, I don't, I don't, I don't know what you want. I don't know what you want from Phyllis Diller. Really?

Well, let me tell you this. This is, you know, again, we're kind of finding these circles. I was on tour. I was touring with this comedy group back when I was in college. And one of the people in my group was,

was a big fan of MASH. And we were in Toledo, Ohio. And he was like, we have to go to Tony Paco's because Tony Paco's is what Clinger liked on MASH. And it was like this hot dog place in Toledo. He's like, oh, I can't wait to go back to Tony Paco's. I don't even know. But we went to... We went to...

Tony Paco's, there's huge pictures of Jamie Farr up on the wall eating hot dogs. And we're like, we got to go. We got to go to this. That's like the, my other obsession is like going to places that are appeared in pop culture and sampling for yourself. So for example, I was in London. It was raining. I went to Soho. I went to Leho Fuchs and I got a big dish of beef chow mein. That's perfect. So wait, that is, all right, so.

Now, I know this name, but I'm trying to figure out what it's from, though, right? Werewolves of London. Oh, right. Looking for a place called Leeho Fooks. Going to get a big dish of beef chow mein. How many people are coming in there and doing it? Did you get a look when you ordered it? No, it's on the menu. Beef chow mein, werewolves of London.

Now, does Warren Zevon get to eat there for free? For life, you'd think. You got it. You got to go there. And I do love, I love visiting those places. And you want so much from them because you feel like this connection, you know, it's like, it's such a, I did this show for seven years called The League and it's about fantasy. I love The League. I'm a huge League fan. Oh, that's awesome to hear. Where can we watch it now?

Gosh, I wonder, uh, maybe on Hulu, uh, they sometimes goes on and sometimes comes off. You know, I never quite know, but people are finding it, uh, again and again. And, um, we shot that show in LA, but we did all of our exteriors, which we were never in, in Chicago.

And I can't tell you to this day, I get dozens of like DMS of people sitting in the bar that we sat at, uh, that it was here in downtown Los Angeles. That looks nothing like the place that everyone goes to go. Like we're having a drink for the league. It's like, but it's such a funny thing. It's like, well, yeah, you're, you're, you're having a drink in the interior of the place. You could go to downtown LA and recreate it way better than, than this place. But people,

It's such a fun, it seems like a pilgrimage that people go to this bar to have it. And we once went in as a group and it was one of the best homecomings we could have possibly had. It's a high-end bar that we use the exterior of, Gibson's. And, you know, it's not what we, we were just like trash people, you know, we were not in there for high-end stuff. So I think people go in there, it's a sports bar. And it's like, whoa, everyone's in the suit and tie in here.

You're like, uh, no. This is going to set me back a lot more than I thought. My pilgrimage for the league. The beer is going to cost you 15 bucks. The league was ahead of its time, for sure. We had such a fun time doing it. You know, I don't know how you feel about this. You've been on so many successful shows. We did that show for seven years. They asked us to come back for an eighth season. And as a cast, we said no. We were at the height of our ratings.

And there was a part of us, and it's interesting, we're all interesting creators, whether it's Nick Kroll or Mark Duplass and Jean-Lajoie, we all come from this background. We didn't want to overstay our welcome. And I feel like we wanted to make it special. I don't know if that's a good choice or a bad choice. I've done that a few times in my career, just called an out. We did four seasons. We did three seasons. Let's go. Let's move on.

I know that you've had similar things too. It's like, yeah, do you like, I mean, in retrospect, when you look back on it, there may be like moments where like, ah, I wish I would have stayed on there for one more season. Or do you go like, no, it was good. It's good to continue to move. I think they all, one way or the other, whether it's the cast deciding they're done or the network deciding they're done, they kind of have, other than canceling something that's clearly working, which I've had happen. Right.

They kind of, the natural time of death like reveals itself. Right. You just know, particularly for something like The League where it's so, I mean, it's so focused on that ensemble and that vibe and that sort of magic chemistry. Well, it was so interesting because we, when we were doing Human Giant,

We got picked up for a third season, but Aziz got Parks and Rec right at the same time. And we were faced with this choice. Do we slot Aziz in whenever we could? You know, like, because Greg Daniels and Mike were really awesome, the creators of the show, were like, hey, whenever we're not using him, you can continue to do the show. But we also knew that that show was such...

you know, like it was such a, it was all of our voices coming together. It was all of us working together that if we were to maybe lose one of those voices, it wouldn't be as good. And, you know, it's in, and so I'd rather go out feeling like, oh, we did it the right way. We may have ended it a year too early or two years too early, but it's better. Sometimes it's like just better to get out while the getting's good. It's like leaving a party. Yes. Leave at the height. You never want to, you know, and I feel that way about movies.

Get out. Don't make me go, I wish it was a little shorter. Just go, I wish it was a little longer. Wanting more is a good thing. But it quickly drops to the other side of, it's too long. It went on too long. It's like in an instant. Yeah, it really is like a very...

It's a fascinating thing. And you can see it. You can see it in the fatigue of everybody there. But we had so much fun doing The League. And I think what was so great about that show was there were no scripts. So we got to bring ourselves to...

these characters and we had these outlines kind of like Curb and they were really well crafted and we would put these scenes together and kind of refine them. You know, it wasn't just like one take and done, but I think that that kept it really fresh for us. It was like, oh, we can say things differently. We can do things. We can add our own elements to this character. Something that I think you get on a written show once the writers get to know you or once you feel familiar, but that was one of the best benefits of that. I never realized that it was in the Curb model

where it was very much improv. I never knew that. Jeff Schaefer, our creator, was Berg, Schaefer, Mandel, were three of Seinfeld's top writers. And when Larry David left...

They took over Seinfeld. And then when Larry David started Curb, they started Curb with him. And then subsequently, they went off and Dave Mandel went to go run Veep after Armando left. And Berg went to go run Silicon Valley and Barry. And Jeff Schaefer went to go to the league and Dave on FX and still continues to do Curb.

That's the hall of fame of comedy writers, showrunners, producers. And the nicest guys and so completely different. Like I've never worked with all three of them together. I've only worked with them separately. And I kind of like I can see the Voltron of them together as one. But they all are independently just really interesting people.

Tell me, how are you liking the podcast world? I mean, you're kind of... How many do you have? I can't keep up. I have two podcasts. And I started...

I started this back when people would say, what's a podcast? And you go, oh, well, you, okay. So if you go in the app store, you can download this app called podcasts and then you can list, like I was trying to explain people, I could go on a website, you hear a player, you know, so we started it so long ago, this show, how did this get made with myself, Jason Manzoukas, who I know, you know, and June Diane Raphael. And it was just us talking about bad,

bad movies, fun, bad movies. And we come at it from the point of view of we are fans of movies. We are actors or writers or directors. We know how to, we know how hard it is. I've been in bad movies. It never was intended to be a bad movie. And, you

And I always describe it as it's the conversation that you have at a diner after you see a movie. It's that group conversation. So we did that for a bit. And then I felt like I was watching too many bad movies. And I partnered up with my friend, Amy Nicholson, who is a New York Times film critic. And we started watching supposedly the best of the best, the AFI Top 100 list. And that's kind of evolved into...

you know, now we're kind of going all over the place trying to find like, what are these great movies? Are they just great in our mind or are they actually really good? And, you know, kind of looking at things a little bit deeper. Okay, so the AFI Top 100 list, give me, like MASH, we always keep circling back to our theme here that we've discovered. What's your hot take on movies you're supposed to love that you don't get? Because I have a couple of them. Oh, I am right with you. I think that in watching all those movies,

it feels like the voters were somehow very influenced by Westerns and Vietnam, right? Because there's an abundance of those types of films on the list. And they're of varying degrees of success, you know. But I felt like a lot of these movies...

you know, they just, they felt right for the moment, but they're not necessarily, or you say, oh yes, that movie is fantastic. I'm going to look right now and tell you some of the, we kicked a bunch of movies off, off the AFI list. Like that was like at the end of it, we're like, all right, let's get rid of it. It doesn't belong on the list anymore. Let's make some more room because, you know, it's an interesting, it's an interesting list in the sense that there's no black directors on the list at all. No female directors on the list at all. And so you have a certain,

that's on there, you know, that you're just like, I personally, and this is one that I think a lot of people love and people I'm sure will be screaming at me if I say it, but I did not like The Searchers. I watched The Searchers. I wanted to love The Searchers. Do you know what movie I've been sitting here going about to say? Yeah. The Searchers. Look at this. See, we're connected here. I love it.

It's an interesting, it's like, yeah, it's good. It's fine. But people talk about it like it's the Godfather. And I watched and I went in with that idea. I was like, okay, yeah, okay, it's fine. And I think maybe it's because the people who voted on it

were seeing John Wayne do something that they hadn't seen. So that kind of stands out maybe as something different. But it really doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't really. I'd rather have Clint Eastwood doing something he hadn't done and the Unforgiven in that slot. I love the Unforgiven. It's such a great thing. There's a great story. On our Unforgiven episode, we had one of the actors on, and I'm going to forget his name. He's a great actor. And he told us working with Clint was really interesting.

Um, because he, he came to him and he said, you know, Clint, so I'm thinking for my character and he goes, ah, no, no, no. And he's like, I don't want to hear it. He's like, what do you mean? He's like, my job is direct to direct. Your job is to act. I'm not gonna get in the way of that. He's like, you do your thing. I'll do my thing.

And I thought that was such an interesting way of directing. It seems scary, too, because it's like, okay, does he like it? Does he not like it? I don't know. You know, I don't know if you've ever worked with him, but it seems very, yeah, it's daunting. I never have. I know him. Yeah. And I have very close friends who've worked with him and they all sort of share the same.

My favorite most recent Clint story was I said to Bradley Cooper, I said, can you tell me about the fake baby in American Sniper? The fake baby, right? It's amazing. Huge. So American Sniper, I love, and I love Bradley Cooper. I think he's one of the best actors we have, and he's spectacular in it. But there's a scene where he's got a baby in his arm, and it's fake. Oh, it's comically fake, like independent movie fake baby. And so I said, let me guess how it happened.

It's, you know, as you know, when we shoot with real babies, you have to have two. And let me just guess, one was sick on the day and couldn't even make it to the set. The other one you work with and is crying. And Clint just goes, as Clint has want to do, just bring in the puppet. And Bradley stops you right there and he goes, no, no, Rob, there was nothing but a puppet.

Wow. I said, wait a minute. That was sick. Wait, it's a scene with a baby? You never had a baby? He goes, nope. Didn't want to be bothered with it. And there's a scene in it, which I love, where you can see, absolutely see, Bradley manipulating the arm to make it look like it's a real baby. It's amazing. And I said, what about it? He goes, well, I did it because I thought they would never be able to use it. Right, right, right. And it's in the movie. Oh, my God. You know, it's so funny because...

I'm sure Clint Eastwood seems like a guy who cares about what he's doing, but also wants to get it done. Why are we wasting time on this baby? We're going to waste hours on this stupid baby. And the other thing is, he'll say that, which he's right, and go, if they're looking at the fake baby, we're in a world of trouble. And he's right. I think that that's so true. Because it's like, when your eye starts to wander, it means you're not emotionally invested in what's going on. And I imagine that people who watch that movie

didn't feel it in the moment as much as they felt it post the moment. Right. Cause you see pictures online and you start talking about it becomes a thing, but in that moment it can be, it's just like, yeah, you're, you're caught up in the action of it. You know, it's, it's, it is interesting. I, I always think about the story that you tell, I think it was in your first book about crying on camera. And I, I have heard like a lot of stuff with Clint Eastwood, like

When you're doing these emotional takes, it's one and done the same way. It's like, let's move. Let's go. Like, you got to hit it. Right. I think Hilary Swank was talking about that. Yep. And I always think about, and you taught me an important lesson. I always ask about this too. Like, where's the camera? Because it was in The Outsiders, right? Where you're like, you go for it and it's a wide. I brought it and then it was a wide and then another wide and then an over the shoulder and a wide and four hours of me weeping.

They get to my close-up and I'm dehydrated. There's nothing there. It's over. The most... So painful. It's as painful as the phony talent show in second grade story. Yeah. Where I'm like, all eyes are on me and there's nothing more to do. Yeah, you've done it. It's like, it's such a... Whenever I direct anything, I do try to let actors know, like, just know it's here. It's at this point. Because...

I don't think that people, sometimes you'll just be in these moments where they don't tell you, they assume. And they probably are like, oh my gosh, Rob is, you know, we're not going to get in the way of this because he's in a moment. We're going to get all this. You know, they don't want to interrupt your thing, but they don't realize that you're like, you could take it down until we get to the front, you know? Yeah, it's really important. And most directors don't do it. And it's a great thing if you're listening out there is like, take your actress and just say, hey man, you know, all things being equal, this is going to play.

in such and such a shot and we're not doing it till after lunch. Yeah. Or whatever. Great. Just know it because it is, it's like, you know, I always feel it this way with stunts. You know, it's such a funny thing. Whenever people are too excited to do stunts, I'm like, oh God, someone's going to get injured, right? Because it's like, we're going to go for it. And it is, it is, I, I, I had an interesting interaction with an actor and I won't name the actor's name, but you know,

I knew something was wrong when he said to me, he's like, you know, back on when I was doing my show, I didn't even ever use a stunt guy. I just would do it myself. And I was like, okay, my alarm bells are going off. I'm like, okay, I'm going to get hit. Because stunt man's not going to say, hey, you actually punched me in the nose. You know, he thinks, oh, I'm doing this thing. I'm doing this thing. And once I heard him say, I didn't use my stunt man, I was like, get ready to get your butt kicked. And we were doing this thing.

this scene that we were on wires for. And we're fighting in this like zero G thing. And he, Rob, he kicked the shit out of me. And I didn't know...

what to say or do because you're also like, okay, all right, I'll do it too. You know, because you don't want to complain. But then I'm like, it was such an uncomfortable moment. And maybe this is like, maybe I should say, oh, you know, but you don't want to be seen in this way. Like, oh, he hurt me. I got hurt by him. Yeah. But it was, oh, I got punched so bad. And the other time I really got hurt in stunts was on the league when

We, our regular stunt man got sick. They brought in this guy who, and there's just so you know, I know that you know it, but if you're listening, you may not know this. Like there are certain stunt directors or people who like run a stunt team that work with stuntmen. And then there are some that work better with actors. And then there's a rare example of people who can work really well with both. Right. And you know, and so this guy was more of the guy who worked very well with stuntmen.

So the scene was like, I got hit over the head and I get people kicking me on the ground. Now I'm wearing a gator back, which protects my back, which wasn't really important because I was on my stomach. And what he forgot to tell all the actors in the scene was,

pretend to kick him. Just kick the ground. Don't kick him in the ribs. All my actors thought I had like some sort of protection on my ribs. Right. So they're just hounding my ribs. And it was, and I was like, stop, stop. But after like 30 seconds of just getting cracked in the ribs, I was like, oh, I'm done for. Like I was, I like, I was done. Like just, and it was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're not supposed to kick him. It's like now. Now you tell, it's always those little tiny miscommunications that,

I have a theory that the smaller the stunt, the more likely it is to go wrong. Yes. You're totally right. So I don't do any stunt at the end of the day ever. Ever. I don't care what it is. If it's the end of the day, I'm not doing it. And I don't do stunts before lunch. I don't do a stunt any time that someone is watching the clock ever. That's a really good thing because I feel like

And you learn this when you work with certain people. I did a movie with Ving Rhames. And I was like, oh, I'm going to get in front of this thing. And it was like they were firing a cannon full of debris, but it was like soft debris. And Ving grabbed me by the arm and he just goes, he says like, don't get anywhere near that cannon. And I was like, what? And he's like, run as far as you can. He's like, you don't know how fast that stuff is coming out there. He's like, get out of there. And he was so right because that cannon went off and

And it came out with such force that it overshot us and landed in the parking lot. So if it was pointed at us, we would have been destroyed, no matter how soft it was, destroyed. But when I felt him grab me by the arm and go, get us, get out of here. I was like, right, because you're thinking like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to show them I'm Tom Cruise. I'm going to hang on to that plane. It's like, no, no, no, no. Step it back. Tell me about your memoir.

Oh, yes. Joyful Recollections of Trauma. It's out May 21st. Yes, and you can pre-order it now. And as you know, too, it's like pre-ordering is, I guess, the more important thing at this point. It is. Pre-order it now. Pre-order it now. Don't wait. People, come on. Now, right now, type it in. It's a memoir that really is not technically a Hollywood memoir, but it's really a memoir about...

being parented and then becoming a parent. You know, I grew up in this interesting situation when I was a kid. My mom and dad got divorced when I was very, very young. And

And I kind of got brought into this very bizarre world with my mom's step or my mom's new husband, my stepdad. And it was like, it was a real culture shock. We went from, you know, living in this nice suburban house to a house on a dead end block that when I went back and looked at pictures, I was showing it to my wife and she's like, oh, you lived in a trailer park. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. I know. I like, she's like, I was like, and no offense to anybody there, but I was like, oh, you

I had a barn and horses in my backyard. And that sounds like, oh, you lived on a ranch. No, I lived on a suburban block on Long Island. We had birds. We were killing birds. My stepfather was a truck driver. And there's a lot of things I was kind of exposed to in that world. And I think as I got older...

I kind of started to reckon with it as I became a dad. And so the book is really about kind of reckoning with, you know, some sort of just these traumas of your youth and how you kind of have to make a decision when you become a parent, when you go to the next step to either take them or, you know, reinvent yourself or try to break free of those things. So, you know, that doesn't sound funny. There's a lot of funny stories in there as well. But, you know, it is really kind of a journey about

fatherhood and, or parenthood, I should say. And then there's a bunch of fun little anecdotes in there as well. That sounds amazing. I felt like you were telling my story, divorce, young, screwed. It's really fucked you up. Lisa fucked me up. Yeah. Went from Ohio to Malibu, culture shock. And yeah, I'm getting, this one is one I'm getting because that's

And you live through it like you lived through it. And you think, oh, no, this is perfectly normal. Right. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, sure, whatever, whatever. And then you have your own kids and go, wait one second. So I remember when I was my son or daughter's age, this is what was happening to me. What the hell was everybody thinking? That's the thing. It's like I looked at my life in a very interesting way after I had kids. Because all of a sudden, like once you have kids, those things that you like let fly, like, wait, how did no one did that?

I have a story in there about a home invasion that happened to me when I was a kid. This guy came to collect money from my stepfather and tried to break into our house. And this is years before Home Alone. And I had to fend off this giant man who at one point broke through our window and is climbing through our laundry room window trying to get into our house. And I was all home alone. And

I, you know, when the cops came in, it was a whole scene. And at the end of it, you know, I was saying to my mom and this man that she was married to, I was like, it was, you know, it was so scary. And they're like, well, you're fine though. It's okay. You're fine. You're not hurt.

And it was like, and I was like, oh yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess I'm fine. And then like years later, I'm like, that's a trauma that no one ever wanted to deal with. Like, no one ever talked. It wasn't like there was no talking about it. I was like, you're fine. No, there was no talking about it. None. And you go, and I don't know about, do you have, do you have brothers or sisters? I don't, I'm an only child. Oh, see. So that even makes it a little bit trickier too. I don't have anybody to even bounce it off of. Yeah. Because my brother and I go, hey, am I insane?

insane? Or do you remember the time and then we both put something together that at the time we didn't notice and now we realize was absolutely bananas. Well, that's I think the hardest part about writing this book was going, am I insane? Yes. Am I like what I'm trying? I'm remembering these things. And, you know, it's like these are stories that were there. And I think the reason why I wrote this book

was because I would tell these stories on how did this get made. They would come out kind of organically. And I would say them just like, oh yeah, well, there was this one time when blah, blah, blah. And Jason and June would look at me like, what? And the audience would be like, wait a second. And I was like, oh, right. That's odd. Like, you know, like I talk about, you know, it's like all these things that you, until they're put in front of a public...

you know, a forum, do you realize like, oh, because you just assume like, that's the life I live. That's all it is. And I'm fine. And here I am. And that's all. No woe is me. But there are these moments that you deal with. And I think especially as I now see certain things through the eyes of my kids, I'm like, I gotta get on this. I mean, and it's something even small. I mean, it's silly, but

I didn't want to go skiing when I was a kid. So I remember a lot of the times my parents would just go like, all right, you just stay here. And I would sit in a ski lodge. My parents would ski eight hours a day. I did the same thing. I remember falling asleep underneath the cafeteria tables while my dad would ski all day long. And it's like, when would you ever leave your child? Like, just go. Yep, you're fine. See ya.

No check-in, no phone, no anything. We might have had the same childhood. I know. It seems like it. That's why probably I loved your book so much. Yeah, you must have totally related. I did, yeah. I love it. It's one of my favorites. And again, there are

certain books I love to read. There's certain books I love to hear. I love your voice. I love the way you read that book. And it was like, it was one, I read a book I highly recommend to so many people. It's great. You know, it's, it's. Thank you. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. And thank you for coming on. This is great. I mean, we just missed each other on Parks and Rec. You were on a little bit.

for my tenure. That would have been fun. I know. I was the one who cleared. I basically started the new Parks and Rec. We closed the pit. I was like a season two, episode one. I was like, and the pit is closed. And now we go forward.

It's the pit, one of the great storytelling boondoggles of all time. When I started the Parks and Recollection, and they would keep talking about the pit, I was like, guys, I wasn't there. I never got it. I never understood it. I don't know what the hell they were thinking, but boy, am I glad they finally got rid of it. It's a funny idea in theory. There's a giant pit. And they were like, yeah, we don't need that. We got to get past the pit. Yeah.

Amazing. But it's, yeah, it's great. Well, Rob, it was a pleasure. Pleasure. Thank you. This is amazing. So great. Thank you. Like I said, I love having the funny people on. I really, really do. I mean, I just, I just follow them into random rabbit holes. I hope it doesn't try your patience because it makes me laugh. That's all I know. And I'm really glad that you are here with us for this one. And we will be back next week with a brand new Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

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