Sheryl Lowe: Find Your Clown
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That's 15% off at SaatchiArt.com. S-A-A-T-C-H-I-Art.com. Ever wish your favorite TV show had twice as many episodes? Everyone knows that feeling. And so does Discover. Everyone wants more of their favorites. That's why Discover doubles another favorite thing. Cash back.

That's right. Discover automatically doubles the cash back earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with Cash Back Match. Now that's a real crowd pleaser. Everyone knows how it ends. Double the cash back. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Literally. Today is a first. I'm more than a little nervous.

My wife, Cheryl Lowe, is my guest. Not sure how I'm going to handle this. Obviously looking forward to it. She's my favorite person in the world. But it's about to get real. Is this my version of the red table? Is that what's happening? Is that what's happened here? You be the judge of that as we say hello to the love bug, Cheryl Lowe. Well, well, well. Well, well, well. Look who we have here. The love bug.

Can't believe everybody knows my nickname. So embarrassing. Is it? Kind of. You have a lot of nicknames, though. Let's just stick with them knowing just that one. Really? What other? Monkey. Right. Okay. You're also known as Monkey. You're known as Lovebug. You're known as Lucy. No, that's been like a million years. It's been retired, but you've been known as Lucy. And what does Gwyneth call you?

I don't know why. She calls me Shirley. Shirley. I think Shirley is a fun name, though. Shirley. Shirley, she's joking. But look, I think Lovebug is super sweet. Yeah. And Monkey is like some of my friends. I mean, we're all over the map with this, Rob. That's what, you know, you'd know that if you listened to a podcast ever. How many of literally podcasts do you think you've listened to? Of one?

Half of one, maybe, right? Name three guests. No, no, here's the thing. I hear about these from you. So to listen to the actual podcast, I feel like I'm listening to it for the second time. I know so much from you. I get to hear the better parts from you, the stuff you're thinking you don't even say in your microphone.

See, I think you just sometimes it's, it's old hat. No, no, no. I'm never, I'm an old hat sometimes. Wow. That's really, that, that helps on date night. Um, no, it's that I swear. I mean, you definitely like to talk about yourself. So that's true. If you know, I mean, and I always wanted that to feel fresh. Hmm. So, um,

My takeaway is that I talk about myself enough that listening to the podcast where I'm talking would be a bridge too far for you. Yeah. I mean, look, if I have to really be honest, it's because I'm so busy. That's true. You know, I haven't ever listened to any podcasts.

But I'm going to listen to one. It's going to be yours. That's just not true. That's objectively not true. I kind of been on Instagram. I saw a little bit of Jason Bateman and Lauren Nets. I thought they were really funny. No, those guys are great. They are. They're amazing. It's great. It's a great podcast. And Sean Hayes is on it. I'm doing the work of three men.

That's true. There's three of them on Smilerless. I saw a whole thing, a whole funny riff where they were ordering takeout. It made me laugh. I like low-hanging fruit. We don't always agree on funny, do we? Do you think we share the same sense of humor? Because I don't think we do. No, of course we don't. Oh, I like that. I like that you're not even defending your position. I don't have to defend anything. My humor, what I like, is better than yours. Is it now? You try to do this whole intellectual, you know, like,

subtle funny and I sometimes I like to be hit in the face with it. I like I get that. I get that. I don't want to have to think about what it means for it to be funny sometimes. I mean I like that too but I'm What's your favorite comedy ever? Oh

Gosh. I mean, you know, I love. Oh, whoa. Of yours. Yeah. Of mine. I mean, you know. Oh, boy. Did you know I did a show called Parks and Recreation? I love Chris Traeger. Oh.

Ladies and gentlemen, you have witnessed. I like that he likes to dance and he thinks he's really good at it. Me too. That's actually you. It is me. You're not great at dance. No, I don't. I don't pretend to be good at it. I just commit. I know. I wish we were both better at it. You're good. You only have one move, though. Oh, no, that's I'm so embarrassed now. I'm not even going to do that. You have one move.

Really? You should tell me these things periodically outside of this platform. Well, I prefer to publicly. Humiliate me? Humiliate you and tell you. Or make me humiliate myself by overthinking it? No, there's nobody better. This is our, by the way, this is an auspicious time to have you on the show. Never had anybody from the family on the show. We should call the kids. Oh, we will. Okay, we'll call the kids in a minute. But it's our 32nd wedding anniversary.

I know. Happy anniversary, honey. Happy anniversary. It feels both like it was yesterday, literally like, this is how you know the new quantum mechanics physicists tell you that there's no such thing as time. It's not linear. It's events like this because it feels like it was yesterday and it also feels like it's been forever. I can't even know what to make of that. No, no, it's all good. That's good. The forever part of it is

The highs, the lows, the ups and the accomplishments, the history, what we've done together, what we've seen together, the adventures, the memories. Here he goes. It's all good. I really just have to say, like, first of all, it's so great just being in the moment. So I'm not really thinking about how old it feels, how new it feels. I'm just thinking about today.

And today, you're a super fun partner. Thank you. Really funny. You always make me laugh. I am, unless I'm mad, but I never try anymore these days to be reactive. You are still really great in bed. Thank you. And... I take great pride in it. You're a great father. Thank you. And a great friend. Thank you.

To me, because you have friends. I love that you're starting to get even more that you really care about. I'm a loner. And you are, I'm trying to go back to the list, honey. Come on. Tell me about, because I can't get enough talking about myself. Oh, God. What? What?

But here's the thing. We're talking about ourselves as a couple, so that, by definition, half of it is going to be about me. I was telling you about things I like about you, and now we're going to talk about you again? No, no, no. I just want to, I want to, I want you to take me back to what, because I want to talk about what attracted you.

me to you. Wait, hold on. That doesn't make sense. You want me to talk about what attracted you to me? No, I want to talk about... I don't even understand. I don't either. I haven't had enough coffee. I haven't eaten. I haven't eaten. And it's the time of day where... Let's go south really quickly. This is where the intermittent fasting... I know where you're getting at. You want me to tell you why I liked you in the beginning? That's right. I didn't like you. That's true. You totally were... But you were attracted to me. You just didn't like me.

No, I think it's like neither. I mean, I didn't dislike you, but I didn't think about you in that way. You were like that guy that had the earring and that, you know, weird long hair. And you were, I considered you to be like small because I had always, well, I had been dating somebody in their, you know, over six feet and you were under six feet.

I mean, you were definitely, I'm not going to call you pretty because I'm just so sick of hearing that. But obviously good looking, great looking, great body. But you dressed in those Elton John glasses and those, I don't know. I like more dudes. And so I thought you were really nice and I'd see you around and we had some of the same friends and you were a hardcore partier and I wasn't.

So there were like things, you know, that didn't attract me in your area or your direction. But when it actually did happen, I remember thinking, God, he is so much fun in the perfectly good way. Like smart, surprisingly really smart. Not a follower in any sense. True leader. Funny as everybody knows about you that actually knows you. People can see your performances and know you're good.

But, you know, Robert Hepler Lowe is super funny on a daily basis, nightly basis too. And you were engaging and present, a little Hollywood and full of yourself, but like that was not at the top. So the other stuff definitely, you know, stood out way more. So I kind of felt like I hadn't given you a chance, you know, I wasn't, you really just weren't in my atmosphere.

And then when you did get in it, I had such a great time with you and I wanted you as a friend. Because again, you still weren't my arousal template. But, you know, a couple of fun nights and a little convincing and here we are. Okay, that's a lot to unpack.

I tried to do the short version for you. No, no, no. I thought the length of it was exactly perfect. You've trained me well. Yeah. We've worked on your storytelling and you're making leaps and bounds. Oh, we'll cut to it. No, no. That was good. That's what Gwyneth would say. Yeah. Land the plane. Land the plane. But there's a lot to unpack. I want to take a minute to carve out my wardrobe.

What about my, you didn't like my earring. I didn't dislike it. I just said it wasn't for me. There's a whole group of people that would have loved an earring in a guy. Oh, there was. For sure. For sure. But not you. But not you. No. I was into the surf scene, remember? Right. Right. You liked super SoCal dudes, like you said. Yeah. Athletes, athletic, you know.

Guys in the gym, not talking about the gym. Oh, I was in the gym. Oh, I mean, come on. What? No, but I couldn't compete with your Olympic boyfriends, Olympic champion, big, like chiseled out of a dog. You didn't need to compete with them because you didn't care about me either.

Well, I don't know if that's true. I just, I had a lot of distractions. Everybody has a story. Every couple has a story about how they met and didn't notice each other. I shouldn't say every couple, but there are those that, you know, our story isn't different in that way. What's great about our story is that we were friends.

legit best friends and hung out with each other. You know, after we got through that hump of what we just spoke about, we were best friends. We hung out, we had the same circle of friends. I was dating somebody and you'd come around and hang. And, um, you know, I would say I was dating somebody, but I was kind of just hanging out with someone. And you'd, you'd sometimes fix me up with, with people. If you felt like they were good partners, we had, we, we knew each other in a way that,

In every conceivable situation. Yes, I never, never at that time thought about this. Jesus. Until, weirdly, it was just like, boom. It hit me like, I mean, like a comet. Tell the story about being at the Coliseum. Oh, it's so weird. I don't even understand it. That's what's great about it. Because it wasn't like I thought about you, and it wasn't like when I saw you, I was like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, blah, blah, blah. I was, and am,

good friends with Marcus Allen. And great running back was playing for the Raiders. That's right. Heisman, everything, just great guy. And he was legitimately just my friend. And he periodic periodically would give me his seats. And this one game, I was there with some friends and he said to me, I'm dating this girl. She's sitting a couple of rows behind you, you know, check out who she's with. She said she was bringing a friend and, you know, let me know what you think of her. And so when I look back, the friend was you.

Yeah, Marcus couldn't have been happy about that.

And I was on the inside and Rob was walking toward me on the outside. And I remember seeing him and ducking like I didn't want him to see me. I didn't want to deal with saying hello or and you were just by yourself like cruising. Nobody was bothering you. And weird flash came in. I don't know where. And it was like someday I'm going to be married to this guy. And I didn't even like I don't know where I realized that I had thought that at what point in my life.

Because it was like, there wasn't like nothing about you I thought about. And that was this weird thing. I don't know. I don't understand it. It was like a subconscious premonition, if that exists. Because I had the same with you when we took our trip as friends to Fiji and we walked into our little...

And they'd put our names together on the door. I spelled my name wrong, but yeah. They spelled your name wrong. But I looked at it and I had the same premonition. Well, I mean, that's a little different. Mine's a little more legit because. Yeah, because we didn't even know. We weren't even. Yeah. And yours. I mean, we were already on a trip together and sleeping together and, you know. Right.

Like, I don't know. I thought that was all part of your plan of like, this romantic. Oh, I had no plan. I had never had a plan in those days. We came home and it all fell apart. So from my perspective, you know, we met on a blind date.

We, we. Oh, yeah. Blind for you. Blind for me. Not, you obviously were like. Duh. You're going to go to. So, so mutual friends like, yeah, a couple of girls are going to come meet us for dinner. And we, Lucy L. Adobe restaurant, Mexican restaurant. You walked in with your girlfriend. That was how we met. It was great. And, and you're right. Like I was, I was busy. I didn't, you know, it wasn't really on my radar either, but like, I think.

Because people always say, how did, you know, 32 years is a long time. It's a long time, particularly in this business. It's like 132 years in show business. And, you know, people always ask me, you know, do I have any advice? And, you know, you hit it on the head. For me, it's sort of the battle is won and lost with who you choose. And, yeah.

We were best friends. You were always the person I wanted to be with, hang out with, share stuff with. And it was an added bonus, all of the rest of it. That's so sweet. And, you know, so here we are 32 years in with, you know, two boys and, you know, and, and you don't... You know what? Well, I have to interrupt you. Sure. I want to say that. I just, I get so like afraid that I'm going to forget. Yeah. Do you...

The one thing I really appreciate, I mean, one of many, but one thing I appreciate that that's right here, I got to say is that you let me be me. You don't try to change me unless it's something that's like really maybe abrasive or, and then that's a suggestion. You really let me do my thing. And I just don't know if I could have been with any other partner that would have tried to impede in my path spiritually, you know,

career-wise, physically, whatever, all of it, you know, domestic, like, kids and family and, you know, I mean, you just, you, either you agreed with my way naturally or you just let me do it and it was, it's just so much, it has been a fun ride and it continues to be. Like, I don't think of it as the past was fun and what's the future going to be, like everybody says. It's like right in the moment, I mean, we're having fun. I try not to overthink it. Well,

It's, it, I, I, I appreciate that because to me, one of the reasons that I fell in love with you is all of your idiosyncrasies and, and, and, and what you bring to the table. So the note, I wouldn't want to change any of that. That's what I liked in the first place. It's not like you'd have the power to change it. It's what I said is you didn't try to, I didn't mean that you would have success because I am definitely my own person. For sure. I mean, I, I,

So the thing that I remember most about you is you would come over to my house when we were just kind of casually dating and you would organize the house and design it like,

Like the coffee table books, you would stack them in certain ways. You were flattered by that, but that's just OCD. Now I realize, now I know. Knowing you now, I know that's your OCD, that you can't walk past a coffee table book that isn't at a perfect 90 degree angle, that that's the way your crazy monkey brain works. I know that now. But at the time I thought, oh man, she really cares about me. Well, if you think I have a crazy monkey brain, you should live with the crazy monkey brain then.

Do you think I have a crazy monkey brain? No, but I'm just saying like, I'm not, I'm not crazy. No, no, no. But you've got a lot. I mean, I definitely think when you're that, you know, your brain could go to the Smithsonian at some point and put it and be put in a jar to be examined. I mean, are we going to be boring people? I don't think that's boring. I mean, boring people don't have their brains in the Smithsonian. I don't, there are very few people that I think I'd like to see what their brain is made of. You're one of them. Well, it frees my brain then.

I mean, I just think, you know, there's no, nobody, you have great work ethic. You've created a bunch of companies. Your jewelry, your Sheryl Lowe designs jewelry is sick. I'm wearing your jewelry right now. I love doing that. I'm going through a bling phase because of you. Do you like my, you like my bling? Wait, you're not going through a bling phase because of me. I mean, yes, I've definitely helped and aided and abetted because you do have Mr. Lowe.

Mr. Lowe's the men's line. At Sheryl Lowe Design. Yes. And it's really cool. And you do sketch and you do come up with ideas and you present it to the design team. So, I mean, give yourself more credit. I didn't make you blinged out. You inspired me. You inspired me. Totally blame Benji Madden for that. Thank you.

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Yeah, my new bestie, Benji Madden, we're unlikely twinsies. That's so sweet. I'm not going with the backward baseball hat quite yet. And the grills. And the grills. But I'm definitely doing two chains and I'm letting my swag fly a little bit. I think it looks amazing on you. Thank you. That's what matters. Thank you. Let's talk about raising kids because I know...

I think there's so many areas that couples can go on the rocks. And... Can I also say this before you get to kids? Yeah. You are never boring. Well, thank you. It can be complicated. Yes. But you're never boring. All my friends love you. At least they tell me they do. Yeah, what are they going to say? Maria loves you. Yeah. All of... I mean... What GP loves you? Yeah. All the... So...

I'm not boring. Um, yeah, you wouldn't suffer a boring person. Oh, and same, same with the same, same. I mean, I would try with a boring person to help them find their, their clown. Um, not that I'm any great shakes at that, but I mean, you know, I would help. And if it, if it was a lost cause, yeah, no, I couldn't do it.

Um, well, that's a wonderful compliment. Um, better be funny here. I'm leaving. No, what? No, no, no. I actually want to. So what I was gonna say about kids is I think that if the worst, what I always liked about you is you had your worldview was so interesting and unique and I agreed with it and I still do. Like, I feel like nine, nine and a half times out of 10,

if an issue comes up your point of view is is going to be not only what i agree with but what i might not have been able to articulate or think of on my own and when it comes to raising kids i've seen if you don't have the same worldview as a as as co-parents it can be really complicated really complicated because let's face it you remember our boys when they were teenagers how they would just

divide and conquer they're relentless they're relentless trying to get what they want so glad they're not doing that anymore but our dogs are now well i know i mean we've replaced it is the same and we're such an old couple now it's like oh god those little dogs are like our boys this is supposed to be fun it does make it depressing talking about all being an old couple just like go but so with the so with the boys

Cause I think you were, you are remain a great mom because you're super hands-on. You're, you maybe have a little helicopter-y mom in you for sure. Um, but I, I, that's an area where I let you do your thing. Like you said, I like, if I had it my way, would there be less of it? Yeah. I'm sure there are things that I do that, and you just cut me, we cut each other that kind of slack. And I think that's,

That's really, really important because it's very, very tough to navigate child raising if you don't have the same world. Remember when we went to the, here's a perfect example. We were looking at schools for the kids and we went to one school and it was a school everybody tried to get their kids in. It was like a big deal and we were super happy. We were rejected, but yeah. That's not my memory of it. My memory of it was before that happened. Yeah.

Matthew kind of took care of business. I saw that the kids were skateboarding in the hallways. Right. The teachers were wearing shorts. Right. And the kids were calling the teachers by their first names. Right. And I was out. I was out. Also give the school a little credit. They're extremely academic. A lot of great kids came out of there. Nobody knows what school we're talking about. I know, but I'm just saying. Nobody knows what school we're talking about. I know, and I want you to know that. But my point is,

you were also out. You didn't go, oh, no, but I think it's great that they call the teachers by the first names because it creates a sense of you. You're like, yeah, no, no, this is not for us. Right. Well, Matthew did the interview and he stuck a shark's tooth in the woman that was interviewing him's ear. So it wasn't like you and I had to make any decision. It was made then. For sure. Matthew screwed his own academic future up. Or he planned it well.

Yeah. He knew it wasn't for him. That's right. But there, there are other, you know, you're, you're, you're very aspirational. You, you, you inspire me to, to go to new heights. And, and, and here's the other thing I also want to say about a long marriage and, and, you know, we're lucky enough to have role models in that area is it's how you navigate the,

times, the fallow times, the times where there are disagreements, the times where there's tougher issues. Because I would hate for people to come away from this to just think, oh, it's all just unicorns and rainbows. And it's a lot of work. And that's not a bad thing. Some people's ears can hear that as like, oh, work. But it requires commitment and work. All good things come with hard work.

Yeah, but I want maybe just my perception. But there was a time where I could look at a long partnership and think, oh, well, it's just a perfect partnership. And they just it's just all easy peasy. But I and I think people bail today way quicker than they should. And I think it's a societal thing. I think my grandparents, your grandparents were married until they died. Right. Grandparents. OK, same.

So let's just think about this. Your grandparents married to the day they died. My grandparents married to the day they died. People listening, probably same for you. Our parents, both my parents were married three times. Three. What about you? No, I mean, you know, listen, I come from a very colorful past. My mother was married, I don't know, five times. God only knows. My dad once to my mother, which for him was a lifetime of marriages. So something happened in our society.

Something happened in our society where it became much more acceptable and easier to bail. What was it like the freedom of the 60s and 70s or, you know, like, I mean, that was really big changes. Think about it. For sure. And then bring in the 80s. I mean, you're talking 30 years of just bedlam.

Great bedlam. Yeah. But, but my point is that. Yeah. Get to it. My point is that, what is my point? I need food. My blood sugars. Your point is that, you know, role models and, um, you know what. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. You've got put me back on track that there, you know, I know that my parents, when things got tough, they didn't have the tools. Um,

They didn't have the wherewithal and probably didn't have the want to work. And they bailed. Time out. Like, I'm not going to get into the heads of your parents nor anybody else's marriage that doesn't work out. You know, awareness, integrity, authenticity. Those things I've learned in therapy make a huge difference. And our marriage is what I can talk about. So if people want to use us as goals, it's because we stay current. We work really hard on it.

We bring therapy in when we need it, you know, and some people might roll their eyes at that and I don't care. Like, it's what works for us. We've been through hiccups and we find each other through it by being willing to roll up our sleeves and do the work. And with expectations of that the other person is doing the same amount of work called balance and supportive friendships that are there for us, don't judge us.

And all the while focusing on the well-being of our two sons and as a family unit, thinking of that first always.

So I don't know, and I don't care really what our parents did. I just care about what we're doing. And I do care that there are people that might look at us and say, oh, I want to do that, you know, because like, great if we could be a part of that, some positive reinforcement, some happiness and some love, you know, in a time in which there needs to be so much love spread. And I love that you brought up like,

well, what is our secret? There is no secret. The secret's out. Here it is for those listening to this podcast. It's like, just work. And it might not work out, but the best thing about it is you tried. And it's like, go easier on ourselves. So if it means two people got together and in the long run, Rob, it wasn't really the union forever. Like maybe that other person's out there for them. Like it's not the end of the world. I mean, it's not the greatest thing either. I get it.

So I kind of, I just have a little bit of a different attitude, it seems, than you in this situation. This thing called love and marriage and union, partnership, you know? I mean, it starts right with picking well, but like, what if you didn't? Like, forgive yourself, you know? See, this is what I'm saying. You guys just witnessed it. That's a Sheryl Lowe classic. Like, I can't, that was not my point of view. You heard mine, then you heard hers, and now I'm like, you know what? She's right.

I just want to come. She's right. Forget what I said. And also like, have some fun, you know, I mean, it's like I weigh things out. I do the scale, the emotional scale. Um, and, um, you know, I do the work and then I want some relief. I want some fun as well. Um, that's it. But I look at that's my hope, my prayers. And, you know, um, it's for my sons. I, um,

For some reason, there's a little bit of a double standard. Like I, if I had to look back on this, my awareness as a parent, as a mother is that I don't cut them the same slack. You know, I'll meet one of their partners. I'm like, oh, that's not right. Which is so not my place to do. I know, but that's what mothers do. Now you know what my mother was going through. Yeah, totally. I think, I wonder if it's a mom thing. I really do. I just wonder if that's. I don't know. If moms are super rough on the girlfriend's.

No, I have a friend who's not rough on any of the girlfriends. She really isn't. Well, there's always going to be the outlier, but I wonder if like... Well, she's kind of a role model for me. But I wonder if...

I don't know. That's another good point. Like, you know, for males and females here, both genders, like find a role model that you were talking about earlier. So let's get right back to that. Yeah. It is nice to look at somebody, even though you're kind of comparing yourself to their outsides. So what if their outsides look good to you and that could be a role model, then, you know, goals, goals. I love that part too. I just wanted to say. Hashtag goals. Hashtag goals. But as a mother, I,

Um, yeah. And you were saying to circle back to, um, yeah, helicopter mom, I did all those things because I had a mom who was total hippie. Um, and you know, parenting for her was being a best friend and that meant not a lot of discipline unless she was in a bad mood or, you know, we absolutely did something to really bug her. Um, but it was mostly like, you know, freedom, do what you want. There's no curfew. And I, I feel like

I'm not going to get too deep into that, but I wanted some discipline to feel safe and secure. And I didn't have that. And so I overcompensated with my sons. Had I been more aware of what was going on internally with me, I could have prevented some things going on. But like it's all meant to be. And so I'm doing it now. It's never too late. And I have a great relationship with my sons. And so do you. Because we're doing that very thing, staying current.

you know, focusing on awareness and then making changes and adjustments. And they see that. And also just like being honest with them. Well, and that's the other thing about like raising kids. Discipline is a, is a big thing and how people discipline your mom didn't believe in it. They're there. I see parents all the time that don't really believe in it. We did. Um, and we were lucky that we found each other. Cause can you imagine what that was like? What would have been like if,

If one of us believed in discipline, then I was like, no, let them find themselves. I don't want to break their spirits or whatever. And they're running amok. Again, I'm not going to judge other parents for what they say. Was that judgy? Yeah, you're being judgy. And I know exactly when you use those little catchphrases that you tend to do who you mean and or who several's that you mean as a group of them. But I'm just going to say like, look.

Our kids are not, they're not kids. Our men are so cool. I love them to pieces. I'm really proud of them. We both, they're a product of both of us. They have so much of both of us in them and themselves. They're like this completely cool, different people than we are.

Um, and it's all, it's all good, you know? Um, and there's been times where it hasn't been, but we've really been there. That's the key. Like be there for your kids, be there for them, show up and show up and show up and show up. Um, and I would say it's an, it's like an annuity. It's like a, whatever. It's a 401k. The more you put in, the more you're going to get out and completely agree with you. And, um, and our discipline, Rob.

Our discipline was, you're right, I kind of like to think of everything in decades. Our discipline was kind of 1950s discipline. You know, we were strict. Yes, we were strict. And... Like our kids say that we, that their friends say that we were the most fun parents to hang out with, but by far the strictest. Yeah. I just think of those parents that were always worried because their kids would come to our house to hang.

Not knowing how we ran it. They just didn't get it. We ran it like a gulag. Yeah, I mean, we did the best we could and it was pretty darn good. I mean, we stayed home. We spied. Yeah, we didn't believe in freedom. The Bill of Rights was not written for teenagers. I'm sorry.

You want your Bill of Rights, you can get that when you're 18. Well, the smartest thing you did for this family, A, was marry me. That's true. B, move us out of LA. Yeah, that's true. Hey, man, you are such a forward forecasting, incredible thinker on that. I was like, wait, what?

Oh, God, Rob. Can you imagine? Thank you. You're welcome. I did. Every once in a while, I'll have a vision. I thought, why does this guy want to sequester me away while he's like down in LA? And then I realized that's my own, you know, negative thought process. I knew, I'll never forget the moment I had the vision. The epiphany was we had had Matthew, our youngest. He was really, really young. Three months, maybe four months. So young. And somebody told me,

You should start thinking about preschools. I'm like preschool, the guys breastfeeding. I'm going to be thinking about preschools. Like, Oh yeah, this is LA. And you know, there's a list and there's a waiting list. And I, my head just started to spin. I'm like, all right, I'll, I'll, I guess I'll start thinking about preschool. And they're like, well, you know, you need to, the person you need to talk to is your agent, Mike Ovitz. And I said, I think, wait a minute, I've got to talk. I had to wait in a waiting list.

for preschool for years on end. And to do it, I've got to talk to my agent, Mike Ovitz. I'm out of here. I'm gone. I'm leaving this city. I will not. I quit. I don't think you shared that with me. I vote with my feet. Goodbye. I would have asked Mike Ovitz. There's nothing against Mike Ovitz. But like it made me realize what the future would be. Me coaching Little League.

was like the taking the telling the president of ABC's kid that he's not playing shortstop and our and our kids being raised in this there's no escape from my business and that I couldn't I just I think that's the key right there is what you said I mean you know raising your kids where every single kid is the same has the same background same story similar I should say you know um

And by the way, it works for a lot of people. I was going to say, there's nothing wrong with it. And it's different. That's where I'm getting at. If you go to Washington, D.C., everybody's in politics. So there are company towns. You go to New York and everybody's, you know, it's all finance and art. But there's so many layers. And we wanted a new layer. That's all you need to say is like you wanted to bring some texture and

You know, you wanted your kids to go to school with all different kinds of parental backgrounds. And we did that. We've accomplished that, you know. I mean, I remember the first time our kids were going to meet Tom Cruise. They just had their pens and papers out for his autograph.

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Pens and papers. That's how long ago it was. I know. Forget there was no iPhones to take a photo. No, there were no selfies. Although Tom Cruise probably wouldn't have let them take a photo. He probably wouldn't have. He had to clear it with the board. Yeah, no, they were like, you'd have thought that I wasn't in show business. Well, you weren't. They still...

there was a moment did you say what you were it's really funny that's really funny i took that time for granted i know right totally i did a little fallow 90s quiet night the quiet 90s yeah the day when you were like breezing in on shows that's you know it's it's back on like donkey kong um

What is that phrase? Back on like Donkey Kong? It's on like Donkey Kong? Donkey Kong is like just that game that's just... Yeah, Donkey Kong. So is it so much more intense than the other game that they have to say on like it? I don't know. What do I know? Well, you use it all the time. Do I? Yeah. I use on like Donkey Kong all the time. What's the one that I used to say that you hate? I don't know. Oh, yeah. There's one. Oh, shit. Come on. It's not shits and giggles. Yes. Oh, God.

Anything to do with the bathroom and you lose your shit. I hate it. Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to say that word. I hate it. I hate it. Scatocological, whatever. That's right. I forgot. That's right. Women don't go to the bathroom. They don't. Let me live in my illusions. Well, AI is going to be a great place for you. Well, you know, I mean, look, I'm not without my flaws and my foibles. What do you want to tell your peeps out there? What do I want to tell them? So that I can say it's not true. Well, here's the good news. And if you listen to this show, you would know.

That at the end of the day, if you listen to literally you, you know me. You know me. You know what I'm interested in. You know what I'm not interested in. Well, I know you about this, buddy. I have not got my anniversary card. Okay. So here's full disclosure. I have three cards sitting on my desk. Cool. And I can't. One of them came from our card drawer. They come from our card drawer. We collect them and have them ready to go. One strike. And I opened one of them.

And it's already an anniversary card to you from nine years ago. Why it's in there, I don't know. Strike two. No, no. What I'm thinking is I want to do a comparison. I want to write what I feel now. And then next to it is what I guess I must have written and not given to you or change and just see how they compare. More like people we know and work with us put it back in a spot where...

thinking it wasn't anything in it. Well, that may be true, but my point being is here's this little time capsule of how I felt. Oh my God, you are totally bullshitting me right now. Am I? Yes, I could see it or feel it or hear it. You're scrambling. You've been too busy, preoccupied, wanting to sleep, eat, surf, stand up paddle, swim, workout, uh,

Watch the Dodgers, which I can't blame you. First of all, hang out with your dog. I'm on strike. Stalk your son. I can't, I can't work. I'm on, I'm on strike. This is the only thing that they'll let me do. So I got to do something. That's right. But wait, let me just turn about as fair play. What's good for the geese is good for the gander. As my mother used to say, I gave you a present with a little card in it. As a, you had a card in your present, same exact card, same little square card.

No, I didn't. Yes, you did. 100% you did. Uh-uh. I got flowers with the sweet card, but I didn't, and there was nothing else I got. Okay, it was in the flowers. Well, that doesn't count. You had your assistant call up, and you just literally said, this is what I wanted to say. Uh, okay. I can't, like, where's the effort of writing out the card? Anyway, it's too late now for that card. You can make it up in other ways. Well, can I, can I plan to? Don't be asking for date night. But,

Okay. So kidding. All right. The card is coming. The card is coming. See y'all. This is what I'm saying. It never, it never ends. It never ends. I've written 32 of these cards. I plan on writing 32 more. No, no, no. You've written 31. 31. I didn't get 32. I've never been good at math. It's never been my strong suit ever. Strike two and a half. We're not going to do strike three.

What is your favorite Rob Lowe movie? My favorite Rob Lowe movie. For a TV show. Oh, my favorite Rob Lowe movie is Risky Business. Thank you. My favorite Rob Lowe movie. Hold on, hold on. Gosh, I'm going to, you know, I loved Masquerade. I really did. I love About Last Night. Yeah, those are good ones. I know I'm not, wasn't supposed to give two, but I mean, you know, again, for me, it's like,

Hard to pick one movie because you've done, you've created these characters in some of these movies that are just unbelievably seamless that I just love. Thank you. You know, where it really took me outside of knowing you so well. And The Grinder. I mean, I love that guy. Love. Yeah. I love Bad Influence. I never hear people really. You worked on Bad Influence. I don't know if Cheryl did. You did my makeup on Bad Influence. Again, one of the reasons I fell in love with you was I, obviously by the time I had done Bad Influence, I'd done

countless, countless, countless movies and TV shows and had worked with countless makeup artists. And I sat in your chair and you looked at me like, okay, what do you want this character to be? And how do you want to go about it? And no one had ever asked me that. They just, you know, I just sat in a chair and they just put whatever they wanted to do on my face. And I think that has to do with the fact that people were

Maybe overwhelmed. I'm just guessing now, overwhelmed by your strikingly good looks. And so they didn't see how you could be any other character with their makeup. I don't know. I mean, I just never saw you as that guy. I was thinking, okay, here's the script, this character. You saw me as the guy with the earring. Well...

Okay. All right. And the Elton John glasses. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I just remember seeing like every cute girl at a club wearing one of your jackets they stole from you.

Yeah, I lost a lot of jackets. So, I mean, my point being is when I looked at that script or any script, I thought of the character, not the person. And like, how do I take this person with their guidance, this actor's guidance to this character? I mean, there's so many layers to a performance. And I'd been used to working with actors, male and female, that I

you know, really took it seriously in the sense of every department helping create this person they were creating. And so my professionalism is what came first. Um, you were, until I forced you into retirement, one of the few times I put my foot down, I think you were working, I think it was with, you were working with Kiefer Sutherland and

Oh, I love. Yeah, you're pregnant with Matthew. And there was like, I remember coming to visit you on the set and there was a sign that said, hazardous material. No, no, no, that's a wrong movie. You know, whatever movie it was. I was working with Kiefer on a movie in...

in Washington and it was all nights and it was pouring rain and I came home all muddy at like six in the morning from a night shoot and you came to visit me on the set. I mean, sorry, up in Seattle, you of course wouldn't come to the set. Well, why would you? It was all in the mud and it didn't make sense. And I came home at like six in the morning, which probably bothered you that, you know, I didn't get there at night to keep you company. And I was just covered in mud and frustrated with the person I was working with in my department and

And complaining about it, kind of crying maybe. And you were like, that's it. And also like maybe hanging around Kiefer too much in his trailer is my best friend. It wasn't that. It was just time for you to move on. And then I said, one more movie I'm committed to with Gregory Hines.

And I was on that movie and we were shooting in El Segundo and those plants down there or whatever they are. And I was pregnant with Matthew and it said on the sign, you know, if pregnant, if pregnant, by the way, like that's a new word I just made up. Pregnant. If pregnant, you know, enter at your own risk, something like that. I mean, I love making the sign a little worse right now in this story. But it was basically, it's what it was. But I didn't go in there. I had somebody working in my department who had volunteered to

Obviously, it wasn't hazardous to people that weren't pregnant. Anyway, my point. It would have said hazardous to everyone. Land the plane, Cheryl. Jeez. Anyway, yeah, you didn't make me quit. You politely suggested and made it worth my while to quit, which is I'll spend more time with you and we'll do this. And then you came up with all fun activities. You were so cool like that. You came up with like, this is what we'll do. I mean, listen, you were...

I mean, you were the go-to makeup artist for male leading men. I mean, I was one of a very few. Al Pacino. Yeah. Brad Pitt. I did reshoots for Brad Pitt, yeah. And on and on. I mean, you're Al Pacino, Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. I came to visit you on Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross when you were doing Al. And just happened. The two days that I came to visit you was Alec.

doing the famous opening, always be closing. And I got to watch Alec, who I love, who's been on the show, do arguably one of the greatest speeches of all time. You should have, let me, sorry, let me acknowledge that. I was so grateful you came to visit me and you got to watch these incredible actors perform and,

Um, working with Al Pacino was such a treat for me because he was the nicest person off camera and so available. I mean, just beyond such a great experience, like that will always, um, be a great part of my memories. And he was just so, um, always interested in the look and like creating something new and cool. So it was always a stretch for me, which I really needed and loved. Um,

And he was just great to work with all the way around. Super fun. What was his, tell the people what his advice was. Oh, I can't, I'm no way know how. I'm going to do it. Well, if you're not going to do it, I'm going to do it. Because you're going to do an exaggerated actor version of it. Then you better do it. I think he's. What was his, what was Al? His advice was people that are married. Let me set it up. You told Al that we were going to get married. And his advice was. Seems like a really nice guy.

you know, good actor, but, uh, you know, you shouldn't live with him. I should live separate. If I could give you any piece of advice, don't live with him. And especially while we're working together, don't, you know, and by the way, he was always professional with me. So this was not like any agenda of his. No, no. He was, he's always been the best, but I love, don't, don't live with him. How could, is that even, is it, can anybody pull that off? I love that. Yeah.

It was the best. I love it. And would never fly. You don't even like it when I go to sleep in a separate bed if I have to get up really early in the morning. I don't like that. No, you don't. I know. But I also don't like that you smoke cigars before you go to bed. I very rarely smoke cigars before I go to bed. Okay. But when I do, I know that you don't like it. That might be the case. That's the other thing. And we'll finish with this. Everything in moderation, right? Well, you have to pick the hill you want to die on. Amen.

That's really... I don't want this to be over. There's so many things I want to tell about you. Like what? This is your moment. Really? Why are you holding your heart right now? I was actually...

Just check. I don't know. Maybe. What would that mean subliminally? Massaging my heart. Were you worried I was having an issue? No, I know how healthy you are. Well, tell me what you want to. What do you want to say? You can close this out any way you want. Oh, no, you could close it. Don't you have anything else that you want to bother me about?

I don't like to interview people, really. I thought you were going to call the boys. I mean, can't you get... Do you have your phone? Hold on. Give me a second here. I really want to do this right. Oh, all righty. Oh, yeah, baby. What are you doing? I'm looking for our son's new phone number. Here we go. He'll pick up. Which boy is this? Johnny? Matthew. It's Matthew. He won't. He's working.

Okay, well, you try Johnny, because he might think it's something to do with Unstable, which is, oh, that's my favorite show. Yay. I love Unstable. How could Unstable not be your favorite show, your husband and your son? Okay, first of all, that character is, Ellis Dragon, has become now my favorite character of yours. Because you're back to dancing, and your hair is all crazy in it, and it's your best performance you are. I love when you go really large.

I know you do. You're always trying to encourage me to swing bigger. I'm going to do Johnny here. I am encouraging you to swing bigger. Come on. You should. And listen, that's... You only got so many breaths in life, you know? Swing for the... What do they say? Swing for the fences. There you go. All right, let's do Johnny. Let's do my co-star in Unstable. Well, put it up to the microphone so we can all hear. If you haven't seen Unstable... Honey, no point in putting it to your ear. You have headphones on. How's that? That's better, right?

Hello? Oh, you picked up. I'm so happy. What's up, sucker? I'm just hanging with your mom. What are you doing? I was about to tell her I was going to answer her call, and then I was on the phone, but I saw you call, so I was like, all right, I figured I'm not picking favorites. But you did. You kind of did pick a favorite. That's not how it works, though. If you had called first and then mom, it would have been her call I answered. Oh. And why is that? I don't understand.

Because I assume it's important when I get the double call. It's not important, though. We both just miss you. How's Oscar? How's our dog? Your dog, our dog. Oscar's the best. He's good. I mean, he had one accident this weekend. I got to teach him. He's got this one spot. You know when they pee on like one spot, then they think that's a spot? Yes, I do. Oh no, John, when he peed in your bedroom?

It's totally cleanable and I've got it figured out. But other than that, he has been picture perfect. When you say you've got it figured out and it's cleanable, you could actually maybe be super, super, super well off with the company. I haven't figured it out because I already spoke to my rug guy. You've got to let me just be in a bowl of this and not stress and try to micromanage. Your mom is losing her mind. This is like her OCD.

is like her head is popping off i challenge you mom to just let me handle this it's a dog it's gonna be challenged on a rug that these things happen it's no dog has ever been perfect you can walk them 100 times a day you know all right well up in santa barbara doesn't go to the bathroom in the house all right okay the two i'll check wait hold on what is what is his ears

His ear is fine. It's better. It was one day he had it. I mean, I can still go get it checked out, but he seems totally fine. I took him on a walk today. He's, um, he's great. And everybody's obsessed with him. I took him to the farmer's market yesterday and he gets like so much attention. Oh, he's a good Oscar. What's your plans for this week? You coming to visit us soon? Are you coming to visit us soon? Well, potentially, uh,

I have some surf this week, but I'm just chilling for the most part. Hold on. Dad wants to tell you something. So we've been doing the podcast. So you've just been on the podcast. You've been live. You've been live on the podcast. And I think you've acquitted yourself well. You seem like a really good son. Did you do like a competition? Is that what it was? No, the other competition was Matthew just didn't pick up. Oh, great. And you're live.

Oh my God. I hate this. Oh, no, you don't. You, you, you were great. Hey, why, why aren't you on the picket line? Why don't you call my agent next time? You'll maybe on your podcast. What are you good? Why don't you get on the picket line? All right. All right. Love you. I'll call you later. Bye.

All right. And with that, that is enough of this family. Thank you all for listening. Lovebug, I can't believe you came here. I'm so excited. When you walked in the studio, my life was like, ah! Oh, this was so much fun. I thought you were going to... You thought it was going to be rough on you? No, not rough on me, but, you know, expose more of my secrets like you always do every single talk show. And, you know, the Lovebug, this, that, and the other. My friends are like, oh. I know. Well, because you're here, I'm scared.

Yeah, exactly. The minute you leave, believe me. Better be scared. You tune in next week. Tune in. Thank you for all your inner beauty, Rob. Thank you for your fun. Thank you for your laughter. Thank you for being supportive. Thank you for your kindness. And

for some of the most of the time being gentle oh thank you thank you for for making me who i am and i thank you for loving my the food i cook for you the meals i make you you're a great cook bring that up here among other things um i love you deeply thank you for coming on the show bye y'all

First time having a family member on. I hope it was as fun for you as it was for me. I was very nervous. I was more nervous having Cheryl Lowe on than any other guest. And we've had some great guests, as you know. And we made it. We got through it. All right. You know what time it is. You got questions? I got answers. Let's hit the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep. Hey, Rob. This is Denise from close to your hometown of Cincinnati, Ohio. Just curious. It sounds like you're a huge family man, and I appreciate that a lot. I've been a fan of yours forever.

I just got back from our family vacation and just curious, what has been your favorite family vacation and why? Also, have you had any family vacation disasters? Thank you. What a great question. I know that when people talk about when were you at your most happy, and by the way, I think I'm always going to be in happy places. I don't think that there was a time and then it passed and whatever, but

One family vacation is always a time I remember that I was never happier. And I'd been shooting on location for a month. It was the longest I'd ever been away from my wife and the kids. And we reunited in Bora Bora, which I think is the most beautiful place on the planet. And the boys had made signs holding them up at the dock when my little boat pulled up. They were super little. Family vacations are my favorite thing. In fact, they...

My wife and I don't take a vacation where we don't invite them, the boys. And, you know, now they're grown men, so they kind of, sometimes they want to go. A lot of times they roll their eyes. I know I never wanted to vacation with my parents ever at their ages. Like when I was the age of my kids, there was no way in hell.

I would ever want a vacation with my parents. But God bless them. Every once in a while, they'll do it. And a vacation doesn't feel like a vacation to me unless they're with us. The biggest disaster was when our camp in Africa was charged by lions. And they broke into the tent where the food was served.

and ruckus everything and my my youngest son john owen hid in the bathtub as if that would make any difference if a lion wanted to get into the tent um that was definitely super radical but that's what you go to africa for at least when you're traveling with the lows because my thing is if i'm going to africa i want to fuck with some lions you know he's like i i don't want to go and

be at a four-star resort overlooking the Savannah and then get out on a bus and say, like, I want, I want to worry, I want to take my life into my own hands when I go pee in the middle of the night. Like that's, that's the way we roll is the lows. Um, and, uh, and we got our wish. So that, that definitely I think is, is the topper. Anyway, thanks for the question and thank you for listening. And I will see you next week on literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Nick Liao, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar, research by Alyssa Graw. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and myself at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd, music by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production.

At Ashley, you'll find colorful furniture that brings your home to life. Ashley makes it easier than ever to express your personal style with an array of looks in fun trending hues to choose from, from earth tones to vibrant colors to calming blues and greens. Ashley has pieces for every room in the house in the season's most sought after shades. A more colorful life starts at Ashley. Shop in store online today. Ashley, for the love of home.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

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