Stephen A. Smith: The Heated Exchange
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Hey, everybody. I'm all pumped up here on Literally Today. All pumped up because I got the great Stephen A. Smith. He's my favorite. I mean, I've got a lot of favorite guys and gals that I listen to on sports, but there's nobody quite like him. Obviously very opinionated, very fiery. I hope he's fiery.

There's two sides of Steve. You never know what you're going to get with Stephen A. So I don't know what we're going to get here, but we're going to get one of them. And I am very, very excited because there's a lot going on in sports. We've had a big weekend of NFL, great season of NFL. NBA is in high gear. I got to talk about my Dodgers. There's going to be a lot of stuff coming down in the sports world when me and Stephen A get it on.

Nuts. All of those games. I mean, am I wrong? Was that just... Well, which, I mean, which game... All of them. I felt like, well, Miami and Buffalo, some dude, Skyler Thompson, that I never heard of before, before last week, had no business taking Buffalo down to the wire if they're the team that we expected they would be. But they survived, and you got to give them credit for that. It was a divisional rival.

In the case of the New York Giants and Minnesota, major props to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley. But no surprise with Kirk Cousins. Good game, gets numbers when it really, really counts.

He doesn't deliver. You had a fourth and eight. You throw a three-yard pass. What sense does that make? Makes no sense. Let me ask you, is that on the receiver for not running the route? No, that's on Kirk Cousins. That's on Kirk Cousins because there were other receivers downfield. You know that you need eight yards.

even if you have to just throw it up and see who comes down with it. What you don't do is throw a three-yard pass knowing there's limited no chance that guy's going to get the first down. That's just putting the responsibility in somebody else's hands instead of you taking it upon yourself, which has been a knock against him throughout his career. It's never been his skill set. It's never been his numbers or his ability to throw the football. It's been the fact that somehow, some way, he fails to do what it takes to get it done. And yesterday was the latest example that even though the pass before that

the ball hit the receiver right in his hands and he dropped it. So we can't forget that. And then last night, Cincinnati, now that's a big rivalry and the Baltimore Ravens defense showed up the way we expect the Baltimore Ravens defense to show up. But Huntley is a backup.

for the injured Lamar Jackson. And what you were supposed to do was dive under. You wasn't supposed to jump over the top. Is that just inexperience or is that just a brain freeze? I think it's an experience. I think it's an experience, but like the coach said, he was not supposed to do it. So maybe it's a combination of both because he should have known better, but he didn't. It was returned for a touchdown. And then it does have you thinking about Lamar Jackson and if he were there.

you know, obviously that would have been touchdown. So you just look at it from that standpoint and you just say, Hey, there were three thrilling games. They came down to the wire, but a lot of it involved backup quarterbacks. And two of those three games with a backup quarterback loss, they could have easily won, but that's the NFL. That's what makes the NFL great. That level of parity. Let me ask you something. Look, I know a lot of these guys, a lot of them, my friends, they do a great job. I'm talking about announcers.

I sometimes feel like these guys are so in the tank for the NFL that they gloss over stuff that I'm like, wait, wait, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what did you just say? Like when they like, oh, and by the way, Lamar Jackson isn't even here.

Yeah. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? That would not, that would not have happened with me. I can tell you that much. If I was there, I would have been like. Let it rip, baby, because I didn't hear anything from anybody yesterday. Well, I said it on first take today. I said that Lamar Jackson should be there. Yeah, you can't play, but what happened to being on the sidelines and cheering on your teammates? Uh, that was a huge drop on his part. Uh,

Then you take that into account and consider what he did just days earlier when he let the world know about his injury status without letting the Baltimore Ravens know.

And he did it on his own on Twitter. This is in the midst of some infighting because you want a contract on a certain amount of dollars. They're not willing to offer, et cetera, et cetera. I just think the handwriting is on the wall that Lamar Jackson may potentially be gone from being a Baltimore Raven. For sure. I mean, it's look, it's got to irk you on multiple levels where you're a superstar like him and

And you're not getting anywhere. I mean, I wonder if I mean, if there's a part of him, I don't know the man. And, you know, I give him the benefit of the doubt. But I can see like, yeah, you guys don't want to pay me. See how you do with the backup. See how this goes for you. I wouldn't do I wouldn't agree with that only because it's happened already. They had it last year and they we already saw what they did without him last year. So he's fully aware of what the team is without him.

I just think that it's one of those situations where if I'm the Baltimore Ravens, he's got one player of victory in his career. He's been a starting quarterback for now five full seasons. His first order of business, first time he was in the players, he was absolutely awful against the Chargers before they moved from San Diego to L.A.,

Then obviously he was he wasn't too great. I forgot who it was against. I know he had a game against Tennessee. He got bum rushed by them, but then he turned around and beat them, if I remember correctly, the following year. And then last year he was injured in this year. He's injured, but he wants 200 million plus guaranteed in a hard cap. That is the National Football League. It just doesn't make sense to me.

But I think that Deshaun Watson of Cleveland changed the landscape because when Cleveland was so desperate that they gave him $230 million in guaranteed dollars, anybody who thinks they're on Deshaun Watson's level wants similar money, especially somebody like Lamar Jackson. My biggest thing is that there is such a thing of there being a professional way of doing things. When your mama is who's representing you, as opposed to a bona fide, certified,

NFL agent, it's going to be a little difficult because you're going to walk into a room and you're going to have executives hesitant to take you seriously because you don't understand all the nuances that come with negotiating in that business. And you never know what hesitancy or what delays that may have caused.

You got to take all of those things into consideration. And if you were really serious about being a Baltimore Raven and you was really serious about getting your money rather than hold out or playing while risking your health or what have you, where one injury can end your career, you would prioritize getting the proper representation in front of these people to negotiate the deal that's beneficial to you, get it done and have that money locked in no matter what happened to you. Look at Kyla Murray.

He signed for 189 million guaranteed. And then he got hurt at the tail end of the season. Well, guess what? His money's coming. Yeah. I mean, didn't Kawhi Leonard have the same kind of issue? Well, he had no, he had representation and he ultimately got it done. But he was, his uncle was a prevalent, played a prevalent role. Yeah. I heard some, I heard some inside Laker stuff about that. That was unbelievable. Well, he had in Magic Johnson had him. He was coming to LA. Well,

where he wouldn't have somebody that wasn't professional or wasn't qualified negotiating this deal. It's just that they all knew they had to answer to his uncle. In Lamar Jackson's case, you actually have a relative, and I think it's his mother, but I'm not sure, you actually have a relative that's been negotiating with the team. Hey, listen, man, I know Cheryl Lowe, my wife,

I mean, it's not my mother, but, you know, damn, I should have my I have my wife represent me sometimes because, you know, they don't give one F, you know. I heard somebody in the Joe Burrow camp yesterday saying that, you know, when it's his time, he says they're going to want a half a billion dollars.

Well, that's not far fetched if we're talking about the next several years because of the money that the NFL is generating, the elevation of the cap and the fact that, you know, it was three years ago that you had Patrick Mahomes signed for nearly half with nearly half a billion dollars, but about 200 and change was guaranteed.

And so if you're Joe Burrow, you're looking at the landscape that exists within the National Football League, the elevation of the cap, the money that's available, et cetera, et cetera. He's definitely a franchise caliber quarterback. He's definitely the truth. There's no doubt about it.

But you can't win without players. And I'm pretty sure that Joe Burrow is going to be at a mindset. I want to keep Jamar Chase. I want to keep T. Higgins. I want to keep some of these assets. And if I take all the money, we can't get those other guys. So that's something that the NFL forces you to think about, which is what a lot of players lament. How would you be as a as an as an owner? I would be terrible because I'm so emotional.

Like, I hate to say it, after the Chargers loss, after what they went through last year and then this year, I would literally be like on the phone to Sean Payton saying, this team's yours if you want it.

Am I crazy? No, you're not. Because I would do the same thing. Oh, thank you. I tweeted when the Chargers lost the game the other day, I said I wouldn't have let Brandon Staley home on the team playing. To blow a 27-0 lead, to call the game that he called, it was awful. I think he should lose his job. I'm not saying he should never be a head coach again, but he shouldn't have that job.

I said that and I stand by that. But to answer your question directly, I don't think I would be great because my whole thing is just two types of greatness. One is your results. The other is box office appeal. See, when you have box office appeal, you generate revenue for me.

That's entirely different than somebody who's just doing their job in a great fashion. Like, as phenomenal as Tim Duncan was and as great as he was, he was absolutely great. He was never Kobe. He was never Shaq.

He was never MJ. I'm talking about box office appeal. And so because of that, I have a right to look at the revenue that my franchise is generating or lack thereof and take that into consideration when it comes to the money that I'm going to give you. The flip side to it, however, is because I have to take those things into consideration, I also have to take into consideration

Who is going to offer you the money that I refuse to offer you? Then you go somewhere else, help somebody else win, and it's at my expense. And that's what athletes utilize to elevate their market value. The threat of being able to go elsewhere and elevating somebody else's market value

At your expense, it's something you can ill afford to do. So as a result, they end up giving you the money that you want. But I definitely draw a delineation between somebody who is just a great performer and somebody who has box office appeal.

And the person that has box office appeal coupled with their greatness are those who should get maximum dollars. If you don't have box office appeal, then there should be some level of adjustment that I could find to make sure that I curb my spending when it comes to you, because you don't generate money for me, even if you win. Yeah, I get that. That makes perfect sense. And you picked the perfect analogy, Tim Duncan. Perfect analogy. I mean, just...

One of the greatest I've ever seen. I got to see him play a ton and there's nobody like him, but, you know, very workmanlike. And I don't mean that as a put down, you know, he, he, right. By the way, in today's, in today's NBA, I gotta say, I kind of miss it because everybody's got their, I miss, uh,

Keeping your head down and just pounding. I feel like everybody's hitting everybody up at halftime and figuring out where they're going to go. Well, I know exactly what you mean because I've been covering the sport for years. And, you know, LeBron James and D-Wade, two brothers I got a lot of love for, the hugging one another, singing kumbaya together and all of that stuff. It did get on my damn nerves at some point. You want to see enemies on the court. Like, I love...

the smack talk between Golden State and Memphis at this point. I love the fact that Memphis is in everybody's face letting them know that we're coming and they're daring you to do something about it. I love the heated exchange that most recently New Orleans Pelicans had with the Phoenix Suns and how they were going at one another. And they went at each other one night

And then they had a rematch two nights later. You know, that's what we love. Yeah, they had to be separated, but no punches were thrown. But they were talking smack to each other and there was clear hostility. Then everybody's looking forward to the rematch. I love that. I certainly miss that. And I understand those who miss it as much as me. But I will tell you what concerns me even more. You know what? I would forgive all of that and it wouldn't bother me nearly as much.

if dudes didn't take as much time off from playing. The load management, and I'm not blaming just the players. The players would tell you, and the players are right to get very frustrated at folks who point the figure in their direction without taking into account the fact that the owners and the executives for the teams are forcing them to sit because they made an investment in these players.

And what they're saying is strength and conditioning wise, we don't want you jeopardizing this, that. We want to make sure you're ready for the playoffs. They're managing the games that you play. They're managing the minutes that you play in those games, et cetera, et cetera. So it's not just them.

But my attitude is that, you know, this is where we go old school. This is where you as a Dara Laker fan at the old L.A. Forum and all of that comes into play. You know, whether it was Magic Johnson or it was MJ or Michael Jordan or anybody else.

it's pretty difficult to tell them, look, you ain't playing today. They weren't having it. Jerry Krause and his relationship with Michael Jordan deteriorated forevermore because Jerry Rice, I'm sorry, Jerry Krause tried to tell him, you ain't playing. When Michael Jordan had the foot injury and he missed 63 games and he ended up coming back 17 games left in the regular season and dropped 63 on Bird at the Garden, even though they got swept.

Bird called Michael Jordan God in gym shorts. That's how much he felt about Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan went for it. And so you look at the days and me covering the league the way that I do, I will tell you the most disheartening thing about it. You can sign a player to nine figures today. By Wednesday, they're thinking about their new contract down the road, not about earning this one.

It's about creating a level of longevity to ensure that future wealth comes down the pike. And to me, that's unforgivable. The lone exception that I would make to it. And I'm not talking about LeBron because LeBron answers the call. He usually plays and he knows he's the headline and he's taken pride in that for years. He's just older now.

But the lone exception I would make to that kind of thinking in terms of somebody who really, really cares about their wealth and their prosperity is Russell Westbrook, because that is Russell Westbrook, too. The difference is he shows up to play all the time.

Russell Westbrook don't take nights off. And so when you look at it from that perspective, it's such a rarity that you see him without without a uniform on ready to ball. That is forgivable on the rare occasion you see him because it's such an aberration that, you know, OK, this is not a big deal because he's a guy that wants his wealth. But he also wants to go out there and work for it.

And when you have the combination of the two, it's okay. But far too many players in the league at this point in time, I'm talking about even dudes that don't even make the playoffs, they'd be missing a quarter, a third, or half the season. And they're behinds a home in April. That makes no sense to me. Do you think this is also like the day of reckoning that baseball had with analytics where they go,

They know the analytics. They know that a guy starts to break down after X amount of time and X amount of games and X amount... Like, it's a quantitative...

load management equation that's backed up by science. Is that where it comes from? Do you think there's actually some analytics behind it? There's always analytics behind it. And I'm somebody that when it comes to analytics, it's a very uncomfortable subject for me because I don't see black folks associated with basketball that's involved with analytics. ♪

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♪♪♪

Tell me more about this. This is super interesting to me. I've never occurred to me. The reason why that resonates with me, you don't hear about Black dudes that went to MIT that studied analytics and algorithms and all of these different things. And all of a sudden they end up with an NBA job. Usually the Black folks that end up with an NBA job played in the league. And as a result of playing in the league, they've ingratiated themselves with teams because they've cultivated relationships. And that's how they become employed. OK, well, here's what happened.

And people don't talk about this enough. Just so you know, I've talked about it with Michael Jordan. I've talked about it with Isaiah Thomas. I've talked about it with Magic Johnson. I've talked about it with a plethora of modern day players as well. Coaches, executives, stuff like that. I've been covering the league for over a quarter century. Oh, I know. I definitely have talked to them about it. And here's what I would tell you with an interesting angle that people don't realize. And this is what I bring up. So an owner might not know basketball.

They might like it. They might not mind watching it. They might sit courtside, but they don't really know. You know what I'm saying? You've been to too many NBA games in your life to not know what I'm saying. You know that, right? But they know numbers. Yes, they do. And so what happens is, is that if you can find a way to speak their language, it resonates with them.

Because not only is it saving them money potentially, but it's making them think they know more about basketball than they actually know, which is a feel good thing for them. So they hire you.

And then you hire people you're connected with because you come from that ilk. And then all of a sudden, throughout the league, you see dudes who are masters at analytics. And the GM or the president of basketball operations hired a player personnel director who brings in the scouts and all of this other stuff. And they're all working in concert with one another. And before you know it, there's a whole bunch of people who never played the game,

OK, who never played the game, but they studied it and they studied it from a numbers perspective and they get the best of both worlds. They connect with the owners because they speak that language. The owner hires them.

By hiring them, you empower them. By empowering them, they go out and they hire others, other subordinates. And most of them are those who are involved in analytics. And if it's not those who are involved in analytics, it's those who have to capitulate to the analytic vision and adapt and do what they want done so they can remain gainfully employed. This is what has happened in the NBA. Not every person.

But a lot of them, far more than not, that's what's happened to the NBA game. And that's what you're seeing. So you'll have literally executives telling you, Rob, what do you mean we lost? I mean, this is and I'll tell you something, something a bit personal. Tillman Fatita is the owner for the Houston Rockets.

There were times, and everybody in NBA circles knows this, where you had a Darryl Morey, who's a great executive, widely respected, won more than he lost, perennial playoff contender. The man knows what he's doing. But they'd lose a game, and Darryl Morey would come in there

Hey, man, we didn't really lose. Look at these numbers. The percentage of shots hit. You know, the level of effectiveness. Once PER, you know what I'm saying? All of this other stuff. He'll bring up all of that like they won. And a guy like Tillman Fetida, who I know a little bit, right, owns a whole bunch of restaurants, including Ketch in L.A., the Post Oak Hotel in Houston. Phenomenal dude in the hospitality business, right?

I will excuse my language. Tip of the teeth. Like, I don't want to hear that shit. We lost. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It drove him crazy, you know? Yeah. But, but Daryl Morey was being sincere. You got, and so you have people. And when you think like that, here's the problem. You get to keep your job.

Because all you have to measure by is the improvement in the numbers as opposed to be measured by whether or not you actually win something. I heard a quote the other day. I wrote it down. I keep quotes. It's the perfect button to this amazing thing is as a great British economist. I don't know the name who said, if you torture the numbers long enough, they will confess to anything. Correct.

Correct. You and I know that you do a podcast. I just started doing a podcast. No mercy. You know, you've been in television and film for many, many years doing a great job that you've been doing. I'm a fan, by the way. And you see all of these things happening. But we have to pay attention to the numbers. And so we're looking at the numbers and we're saying, well, the ratings don't seem to be this and the revenue doesn't seem to be that.

But then depending on who they talk to, they'll fudge it in a way that's beneficial for them. We definitely know that as a part of our business. I had not thought about that piece of the analytics in terms of the NBA because I'm a huge baseball fan. And that is where, obviously, I think it all kind of started. Billy Bean. Billy Bean. Billy Bean, right? Yeah. Yeah, no question. And, you know, it's...

It feels like the pendulum's swinging a little bit back from it. Like, it's rough. I mean, it's changing everything. Let me touch on that for a second for you because you're a baseball fan. Yeah. Let me tell you why I think it's being modified to some degree. Because you're seeing a whole bunch of empty seats in baseball stadiums. Yep. And you're also seeing the dissipation

of the younger audience because baseball's audience continues to get older and older and older. Why? Because the same people who are purists, traditionalists, who love the game never go anywhere, but they haven't done a successful enough job of ingratiating themselves with the younger audience. That's why you got Rob Manfred trying to speed up the game.

trying to compromise the potency of pitchers and the impact they could potentially have because you want to see more offense. But baseball is stuck in this dire situation. They want more offense, right? But the more offense you get, the longer the games. And the problem is the games are too long to begin with.

because you're not getting people to want to sit up there and watch a game for four hours. OK, people have too many options, too many things they want to do. Not to mention the fact that younger generation that you didn't ingratiate yourself with enough. You've tried reviving baseball in the inner cities, along with various other programs. But at the end of the day, what it comes down to is that what you didn't do was successfully go about the business of facilitating youth involvement.

100 percent. I don't know anybody who plays baseball anymore. I grew up. Everybody played it. And here's the deal. And one of the other reasons it's that way is because you went to other countries, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Puerto Rico. And the list goes on and on and on. You went to all of these different places and you're playing baseball and you're getting players to come over here and play baseball.

And you've ingratiated yourself. They just signed some 16 year old. I think it was from Venezuela, but I'm not sure. They give him a five point six million dollar deal at 16 to bring him to the majors. But that ain't happening for nobody in America.

And so because it's not happening for folks in America and because unlike college basketball and college football, college baseball isn't invading the airwaves. You don't know these folks. And if you don't know them, it's not appealing to the younger generations the way it does in other sports. And as a result, they decided to go in a different direction. This is the last one. This is one thing that I've read, just like I talked about the analytics. This is what people don't realize about baseball.

And this is where race, culture and all of that stuff comes into play. Unlike any other sport, baseball is asking you to trust it. That's a very, very difficult thing. How so? How so?

Because you got to go to double A, triple A, stuff like that before you get to the majors. OK. Yes. Yes. You can play tennis as a teenager. You can play golf as a teenager. You can play basketball as a teenager. Even in football, you can star in high school and garner enough attention when you go to a big time college program, et cetera, et cetera. No matter how great you are at baseball.

The sport tells you you have to wait your turn because that's the way we do things. They police themselves. They don't listen to the outside world. And because they police themselves and they follow tradition and they don't listen to the outside world, inevitably you alienated it. And now you're behind all of them in terms of interest.

And, you know, and not to mention, you know, the whole cable deals and all of this stuff where you're blacking out games and stuff. Can't get local teams in your market because of stuff that don't even have anything to do with the sport. It's got everything to do with lawyers negotiating contracts with television networks. All of that stupidness has gotten in the way. I agree with you. As usual, you're absolutely right. And by the way, I listen to you on First Take every day when I'm shooting. Thank you, man.

So I know I think you're the best and I always agree with it. Your take is always the take I agree with. And that's it is true. Baseball's got a lot of stuff going on. My Dodgers won 111 games. They lost. And they lost. It's like if I'm them, I'm like, I'm going to when it comes to my pocketbook, I'm going to go design a team that I know is going to win 85 games. Yeah.

Just be in the mix and get hot. Because the rest of it turns out is bullshit. As it turns out. I mean, I don't know how many more times we need to see it. Absolutely. I mean, listen, there's no question about that. You're absolutely right. They've got one World Series title since 88. And that just happened recently and give them credit for that. But San Diego on the come up and you got to remember that

San Diego Padres didn't even have their star when they beat the Padres. So you got to take all of that into consideration. There definitely needs to be some rethinking in LA. And I think they've tried to do that by curbing their spending when it comes to Kershaw, letting go of Trevor Bauer with all the nonsense he got in. Here's my prediction, by the way. My prediction, sometime next year, maybe late in the year, but the year after that, you're going to see

Otani in a Dodger uniform. In all likelihood, you're probably right because he doesn't want to be anywhere but out West from what I'm told because of the weather. He loves the Southern California weather and there's only two of those teams. That's the Angels and that's the Dodgers. And the Angels have done a piss poor job of surrounding a team with them, of putting a team around them. And by the way, now we've seen attrition kick in and compromise, if not the greatness, clearly the durability of Mike Trout.

And so because of all of that, why stay? And when you think about Shoya Tani and what he brings to the table, he's clearly the most valuable player in the league because he can pitch and he can hit. He can be an everyday player or he can pitch once every five days. And to go from throwing 95 miles an hour and striking out 10 or 12 batters and having an ERA of under three to smacking 30 to 35 home runs a year, that's Babe Ruth kind of stuff right there. And so because of that,

Listen, he's going to want to stay, but why stay with the Angels? What purpose does it serve? I'm with you.

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All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Tell me about your memoir, Straight Shooter, a memoir of second chances and first takes. It was my memoir, my life story. It was something that...

I had been pressed to do for years. But in 2011, my mom made me promise that I would never write a book until she was dead and gone because she knew that my relationship with my father was not a good one. And she knew that if I was writing my memoir, I would talk about that because anything that I did would celebrate her.

But in the process of celebrating her, I would inevitably have to talk about why she should be celebrated, which would bring me to him. And so because of that, my mother was very, very private and never, ever, ever wanted me to reveal what my feelings were for him and why, as long as she was alive. She passed away in 2017 after a long bout with cancer. I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you. 14 months later, he passed away.

And, you know, I waited a few years and then my sisters and everybody else reminded me, they said, it's time. People have been after you to do this for over a decade. Now you're the guy in sports media. It's your time.

So go ahead and do it. And with all the things that I have aspirations to do, I've got my own production company. I want to produce a scripted and unscripted film and television series and things of that nature, along with documentaries. I'm doing my own podcast. I own and operate that. I have aspirations in that world as well. Combined with what I'm doing, I just felt obligated that if I'm going to do anything as it pertains to a book, because it's the only thing that I haven't done in my career,

The first order of business was to write about me and to let people know who I am, where I'm coming from, what I endured, what I've been through, how I got to this point in my life, and how I came to think the way that I think, have the perspectives that I have, adopt the approach that I've always had throughout my adult life. How did that come to be?

They had a right to know. So I figured after all of this time, it was high time that I told the public. And that's why I decided to do it. What was the writing experience like for you?

nightmarish in certain respects. You know, on the serious, the serious portion of it is that it's pretty hard because, you know, they ask you to write and then they come to you and they want you to edit like 11, 12, 13 times for crying out loud. And so to constantly have to read over

you know, what happened with my mom was very, very difficult. To have to read over the experiences that I had with my father, myself and my four older sisters, and my late brother had with my father, it's very, very difficult. On somewhat of a fun note, it was like, look, damn it. I wrote it. It's my life. It's my words. I don't want to live with it. I don't want to see you edit this again. Don't even talk to me. I wrote it. I know I can write.

I'm telling you what it is. Stop coming back to me and changing every little thing or whatever the case may be. Or double check with me. I said, look, I'd have to be dead broke and unemployed for somebody to convince me to write another damn book, at least a nonfiction. Novels, murder mysteries, stuff like that. John Grissom style, Tom Clancy style stuff, stuff like that. Maybe. But a nonfiction book? Never. I want no part of it.

I did two of them. I did it. Wow. And then I, and then I did another one. Really? And what possessed you to do another one? I missed the process. You missed the process of writing a book? I'm telling you, I did. Man, I'm a fan of yours, but we are two different human beings, my brother. Let me tell you something right now. I, I,

There's not a damn thing I missed about writing my book. Not anything. And, you know, let's see how successful it is. I will love if I make the new... My goal is to make top five New York Times bestseller list. That's definitely my goal. If not number one, I shoot for the stars. That's who I am. But I will tell you, it would take that for me...

to have the slightest smile on my face for having to practice. But this is what I'm saying. Wait, just wait till you get the phone call and they go, Stephen, guess what? You're number two in the New York Times bestseller. You are a New York Times bestseller. Well, first of all, if you're going to say I'm number, first of all, you're going to say I'm number two. Why not say I'm number one?

Because I didn't get number one. I don't want to give you number one if I didn't get number one. I got you. Okay. All right. I'll take that. I will tell you this. If that happens, I'll be humbled. I'll be thankful. I'll be grateful. But it will be momentary. I'm not done yet. Then you go around the country. You're doing your thing. And people come up to you and say, I just want to tell you what it meant to me.

to hear the story about your father, because it resonates for me and this and that and the other thing. And then, and you hear that over and over and over again. And then you also hear people go, oh my God, that thing you wrote about the subject, that's so hilarious. I was telling my girlfriend about it. You're enough of that. And you might reconsider it. I might. I doubt it.

But I will tell you, I will tell you another thing about the book is my career at ESPN. I've been involved. And one of the things that irks me, Rob, and I'm truly this way, I'm a man first. And if I make a mistake, I own up to it. One of those guys that if I did something wrong publicly, I'll apologize for it. But if I do, if I do something wrong, I apologize in any damn body.

And that's the thing about me, because first take can be a hot seat at times for some people. My mentality has always been I have no right to run when I don't allow people to run. Yeah. And that's your authenticity. And you can't write a book without being authentic. You can't sit in the seat you sit in every day without being authentic. And sometimes people whose businesses are not based on being authentic comes back to what we talked about, numbers. Yeah.

It comes back to that. They don't speak that language. They speak a numbers language. Yes. But my problem, my issue was I speak a numbers language, too, because I've been number one for 11 years. And when I say number one for 11 years, I'm not talking about every year. I mean, every week, every month and every year for 11 years. So for me, it's not like I deviated from being number one.

And when you're number one and you've been consistently number one and you're generating both revenue and ratings, a lot of times people think it's the same. You can generate ratings and that doesn't generate revenue if advertisers or sponsors don't like you. See, people don't realize that.

You can generate ratings, but you still ain't making any money because advertisers and sponsors ain't feeling it. So I've been fortunate and blessed enough to generate both. And so for me, when I've done that, I've earned the right to tackle issues, albeit responsibly, because you don't just represent yourself. You represent the company that you work for, etc., etc.,

That's great. I can't wait to read the book. Now, did you do the audio? Did you read it? Yes, I did. How was that for you? Oh, that was much easier. I finished that in four days. Yeah. That was much easier for me. In and out. Got it done. And I finished that. And that was far more enjoyable than writing it. Okay, I got to ask you this. I know you're super excited about what's going to happen to the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah.

What do you think is going to happen? Dallas is the better team. Oh, boy, that pains you. I can see the pain emanating off your body. It doesn't. You got to stay with me. Dallas is the better team. They should win this game. But they always find a way to mess up. And I anticipate that they will find a way to mess up again. If not this week, definitely next week against San Francisco, they're going to lose. But I'm predicting they're going to lose against Tom Brady.

I don't think that Tom Brady is going to end his career because I think he's going to retire. I know some people think that he might move on and go to play for the Raiders and Josh McDaniels in Vegas. And maybe that happens. Oh, no. But I think he's going to retire. He's got a $375 million contract over the next 10 years waiting for him the moment he retires. I think he's going to retire. And I can't see Tom Brady retiring with a loss to the Capitals. He's never lost to them. 7-0 all-time against them. I think after tonight it'll be 8-0.

I think after tonight, the Dallas Cowboys, the favorites, the better team, more weapons, more bodies, better owner, better arena to play in, stadium to play in, all of those things.

Champions in the back pages, the headlines. They're going to go down. They're going to find a way to mess it up. I don't know whether it's going to be a fumble, interception. They're just going to wet the bed. They're going to be in panic mode. I don't know. I just have this funny feeling that they're going to find a way to blow it, which obviously would bring me joy. This is going to be so great because this will air after the game and people are going to be, well, Stephen got it wrong. Very rarely happens, but he did this time or...

He's a soothsayer. The man's a soothsayer. Well, last year I picked them. They were going through, they were winning games and they were en route to a 12 and five season. And weeks before the season ended, I said, y'all do understand. Dallas Cowboys won't even win a playoff game. I remember what you said. And sure enough, they lost. And I didn't feel that way. I had said all along, I expected Dallas to be in the NFC championship game against the Philadelphia Eagles. And then I saw San Francisco acquire Christian Caffrey.

And then I said, well, Dallas is going to get knocked off by Philly or San Francisco. But then I said, wait a minute, they're not going to win the division. And that means they get to play Tampa and they're going to have to go on the road to play Tampa. And Tom Brady. Now, this is a team that lost to Jimmy Garoppolo last year. This is a team that lost to Sam Howell, some third string quarterback just a couple of weeks ago for the Commanders.

Well, ask me, brother. And now they're going against Tom Brady. I think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. I just I just said, you know what? I could see Tom Brady finding a way.

to dig himself out of the grave and beat the Cowboys and nothing would please me more. It really wouldn't. I'll be thinking about you as I watch in my NFL hat, because as you know, I'm very neutral when it comes to these things. Thank you, man. This was so great. I hope you had a good time. This was fantastic. I did, man. It's an honor to talk to you, man. I've been a fan for many, many years, man. I really appreciate you taking time to have me on your podcast. Super interesting, Cat.

Super interesting cat. I hope you guys had as much fun as I did. I could talk sports forever. That'll be the third podcast. Not, but I shouldn't say not. I'm open to it. I'm open to talking sports more often, but that was fun. I could have gone forever. We didn't even get into half the stuff. All right. It's time to check the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line.

where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Rob Lowe, my name is Chris. I'm from Simi Valley, California. I currently live in St. Louis, and I just want to know some stories about the Forum Club. I'm so jealous of your time with the Showtime Lakers. I know you've flown with the team. What was it like in the Forum Club with all those people after a game or before a game? Thank you. Oh, and during the game, I might add. Thanks for the question.

The Forum Club, man. You know what? There are just some places at certain times, right place, right time, that...

just become iconic. The Forum Club during the Lakers' Showtime era was one of them, and it was because Dr. Jerry Buss loved people, loved the entertainment industry, loved basketball, loved creating a scene. It was in the 80s. We all know what that means. We all know what everybody was up to then, and it was all happening then.

He would have the corner table in the back. I'd go in and have dinner at his table and you never know who was going to be there. Usually it'd be a couple of boxers, other celebrities. Then we'd go see the game and then you'd come back and then the players would gradually show up. And then we would, that place would just rock forever.

Until four in the morning, sometimes. You just wouldn't do it today. You couldn't do it today. It was such, it was a much more innocent time. There were no cell phones. There were no, nobody was taking pictures of anybody. Nobody was recording anybody. Nobody was going online and saying, you'll never believe what I saw at the Forum Club. Because if that had been around, it would have lasted about one week. Right.

But we got a very good run there. And I'm very happy to remember as little as I do from that area, if you know what I'm saying. And I know you do. Thanks for listening, everybody. Don't forget to please download the entire season and tell your friends, maybe even send them a link to your favorite podcast, Spread the Word. And I'll see you next week on Literally. Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Rob Schulte, with help from associate producer Sarah Bagar. Our research is done by Alyssa Grahl. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. All of the music on this podcast was composed by Devin Bryant. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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