Ted Sarandos: Video Store
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Look at this handsome man. Yeah, baby. Oh, boy. I don't think the podcast world is ready for this. Too handsome for radio, sir. You are too handsome for radio. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. This guy's probably the most influential, powerful person in the entertainment industry today. Ted Sarandos.

co-CEO of Netflix, been there since the beginning. I'm lucky enough to know him as a friend. And what I love most about Ted is not only is he at the cutting edge of where our business is and where it's going, but he's a ginormous fan of movies. And he's just a great guy. And in the thick, as we speak,

Of everything that's happening in the world of entertainment, he's boots on the ground. He knows the intel. So let's get the behind the scenes of what's really going on in the business of movies and TV from the man who knows it better than anybody in the entire industry and who happens to be one of the most fun, Ted Sarandos.

How you doing, brother? I'm good. I'm good. We have so much to talk about. We're seeing each other in Oscar season. You have, how many movies do you have nominated this year? We have 18, 19 nominations across 11 films. Unbelievable.

Yeah. And we're towards the end. Led by Maestro was seven. Bradley Cooper is three. Which, by the way, we've talked about. I love Maestro. I love that movie. I love that you made that movie. You know, I find that there is like, capturing the creative process in a movie is almost impossible. And I just feel like getting inside the head of creation in a way that makes sense on film is so hard to do. But Bradley just crushed it.

He's an amazing talent. He is. I mean, I saw him on stage as the Elephant Man. Oh, I never saw the show live. I wish I did. I heard it was on TV. Spectacular. I mean, you know what I love about Bradley and his career is...

you know, when he was like the third lead in Alias. Yeah. And even worse than being the third lead in Alias, the third good-looking guy lead in Alias. Do you know what I'm saying? He overcame it. He overcame it. I would tell you something. When we greenlit the movie, about almost two full years before we were going into pre-production, he starts texting me pictures of,

of an old guy. And I'm like, who is this? He goes, that's me. And he was doing makeup tests out of pocket at his own time in between the film he was working on. And then he was doing... Because I think what you see on screen is really remarkable. When he's playing Lenny as the older version of Lenny, it reminded me of...

of Dustin Hoffman in Little Big Man. Yes. Where you can actually, when you can have a pull off a performance through all that and you can still see the performance is really so impressive. But the fact that that has to get iterated and iterated and iterated, it was like three years for that makeup to look like it did. And the fact that he was just obsessed with getting it right so early that he was renting the Disney concert hall to learn how to conduct music and all these things before we were in pre-production.

He's such an impressive individual. That's putting your money where your mouth is, too. I'm going to rent Disney Concert Hall just on the come, as they say. By the way, the other thing that's funny to me, watching the movie, I'm reminded that Leonard Bernstein was a gigantic celebrity.

And there was a time in America when a conductor was a gigantic celebrity. I know. Isn't that insane? Yeah. You'd go on a talk show. You'd have a, an odd Truman Capote and a, and Leonard Percy would be on a talk show. And it's talking about, you know, being author or being a conductor and American listened and just watched it. Well,

You led me right into it because there was a time when I grew up watching movies when a big traditional Hollywood studio would have made that movie. And to me, it's interesting that he crushes it with Stars Born. Yeah. And then says, in my day,

Warner Brothers, God bless them. They're all wonderful people. But in my day, Warner Brothers goes, Bradley, what do you want to do next? And we're doing it. Yeah. Not anymore. Yeah, true. And thank God that you're there to pick up the slack. Well, what's Greta Gerwig doing after Barbie? Narnia for Netflix. Yeah, baby. Yeah.

That's going to be huge. Yeah. We had a great chat the other day because we were talking about... I mean, she's been similarly in the details of this thing at a level you won't believe. But her...

The idea that I hadn't even thought about at the time, but she said, you know, it means something to me that you gave me this to do before Barbie. You never saw any of my world building. And, you know, so now it seems like a no brainer that she would take that on. But, you know, we did that deal pre Barbie and it was mostly just based on her incredible vision for the material. People don't, I don't think people fully realize that.

the level that you are a fan of the process. And I'm going to talk about you like you're not here. So I've been around long enough. I've seen them come and go. The titans of the business, the most powerful executives, the men and women in the chair that make all of the decisions. And I had the fortune of dealing with all of them.

I've never dealt with anybody who was more of a true, passionate fan of the medium than you. And I think that's why... First of all, it's why Netflix happened. I know, obviously, Reed figured all of it out too. But without a passionate filmophile... And the thing about Ted, listeners, is if I hit Ted with an obscure line, particularly from a comedy, Ted will have...

Not only will he know the line, he'll know the follow-up line. Am I right? We've had some fun with that. We've had some fun with that. You remember, Rob, you said something, you made some obscure reference to

to the China syndrome to me. And I did the, there was a vibration. It was a vibration. I mean, first of all, not enough people know the China syndrome period. Yes. That was, that was, that was a vibration. Um, but I think people, it's important for people to know that you are a fan and you're keeping, and I'm not, this isn't, um, hyperbole. You're keeping a very specific type of movie alive, right?

In addition to doing the ones that move the needle in a big, big, big way. Yeah, look, I think for me, Rob, it has something to do with growing up in front of a television. For better or for worse, it was probably not a great act of parenting to leave their kid parked in front of the TV. Okay, well then can we do deep cut lines from the Partridge family and the Brady Bunch together? Absolutely. Absolutely.

But listen, was there a more coming of age than, you know, than Greg Brady moving out and getting his own place? Yes. The Bartridge family, too, had an almost identical episode. How about when Eve Plum, I just read a thing on her, decided to join the women's lib movement and decided she wasn't going to wear a bra on the Brady Bunch? That was a big day in my house. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a shaping day for Rob Lowe. Shaping day for a 12-year-old who's living younger. But like I said, I think that for me, though, that storytelling and the companionship that comes from the storytelling of film and television is real. And I feel like having...

the more i agree that i know that movies get big and loud and spectacular they have to because the price of them keeps going up to go to the movies but you can't then price yourself out of the ability to tell you know human stories and i think that we're so i have i was so shaped by these stories i know you were um that i think that it would be a a real shame for that to die out because of some economic challenge that is kind of dictated by the distribution of theatrical movies versus

People can watch movies at home and see all kinds of movies, and the storytelling shouldn't change, just the screen changed. Talk to me, you once told me a story, and I'm trying to remember the auspices of it. For people who don't know, Ted literally ran like

It was a video. Yeah. You were the manager. You were named manager of two video stores in Arizona, right? This is a big break. And this is a big professional break. Yes. Just by some act of incredible coincidence, there are two video stores in the entire state of Arizona. And one of them was around the corner from my house.

And weirdly, my mom, God bless her, I miss her, but this is not a woman who was good with money. And we were pretty poor. Actually, you know, and I look back, my dad actually made money, but my mom was so bad with it. We always were poor. So we always had the utility, some utility or another was always off. I don't think we ever had gas, electric, and a phone at the same time. But my mom bought a VCR. Now,

At a time when a VCR was super expensive, it was about the size of that room that you're sitting in right now. Oh, I remember. Yes. And there was almost no purpose for it yet. But she bought it. She bought a VCR because she knew how much I love TV and movies. And weirdly, the store opens up when I go in and there's...

I think it was like 900 square feet. It was a little tiny store with everything you could get on video at the time, which was not much. I remember it was a big, like, there was like the Willie Nelson 4th of July picnic on video. There was some Ali Frazier fights. It was like in a handful of movies, but the studios had not yet embraced doing it. So the movies that were in the store were all indie movies.

So you went in Phoenix, Arizona from not having any access to independent film at all to having all these great movies that never played here available to take home for five bucks and watch. Didn't you have an epiphany about a business model based on who was...

what, what videos were being picked over and over again? Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, that, that old saying that, uh, everything I've learned, I learned that I need to know. I learned in kindergarten or something like that. Similarly for me, like a lot of the foundational, uh, ideas for the, you know, for how we would run things came from those days in the store. And there was this thing that always puzzled me, which was, uh, why was it that these great little movies didn't couldn't, they couldn't work in Phoenix, uh,

Was there something different about people in Phoenix in New York than they were in New York? Really? Probably not. But what it was, it was about the density of the population. So for me, it's like I've got all these people who live around this video store, but Phoenix was like a small town. So there was a lot of room between them. So there wasn't that many people in the five miles around the store. And that's about as far as people would drive to come to the store. So within that five miles, there weren't enough people who cared about a John Sayles movie.

Plenty of people in the whole state, plenty of people in the whole country, but not in that five-mile radius of that store. So the trade radius was just too small for interesting small stories. So if you can get a bigger trade radius, you can make almost everything work. And Netflix kind of became this kind of national footprint video store.

which meant that we could take documentaries in foreign language films and art house movies that otherwise only played in major cities and have a real business around them. Talk to me about the famous algorithm. I mean, because based with the strike and so much being written about it, it's less so now, but I remember the day when you guys were the new kids on the block and people talked about the algorithm, like it was how from 2001 or, or,

Or more like, actually, more truthfully, the monolith, which you didn't understand what it was. You didn't know what it did. Right. It was impenetrable, but you knew it was fucking important. And now we know a little bit about it, but how would you describe the famous Netflix algorithm? I think...

Just like from the very beginning, programming and creating things is a creative process. It has very little to do with data, meaning that you can pick ideas and the things that look great on paper often don't work. And the things that you can't believe worked incredibly well, as you know, through life, this always happens. Yeah.

And that's because I think it's so much of it is about execution. It's about the right idea at the right moment and the right time. And that is not something that data is good at predicting. So you can use data to give you the answer to things that are repetitive. Like this happened before, it's going to happen again. But mostly about, you know, movies and TV shows are about surprising people, things you've never seen before.

So there was no algorithm that said, hey, you know what? The biggest show in the history of Netflix is gonna be from Korea, Squid Game. And then people in America, people in the US who have no history of watching anything subtitled and dubbed are gonna watch this in bigger numbers than anything you've ever seen. So to me, it was that the team in Korea who actually defied the data and said this show, which is about twice as expensive as an average hour of television in Korea,

is going to be a monster. And they were right. So, but even early on, here's on the other side of the conversation as an actor in the business, when you guys were coming up, what I was hearing was always, they have an algorithm that will tell you that

of certain actors who may or may not be carrying movies right now that audiences are responding to. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. There's that element. I mean, look, there are some folks, like you see, you look through, like Adam Sandler is kind of, that was using the data to kind of get into the right relationship, which was, I would look at these daily reports of what people were watching around the world. And what kept coming up is no matter what,

what Adam Sandler movie we license in which window. So it could be one from last year or one from 10 years ago. Those movies popped into the top 10 everywhere in the world. People love Adam Sandler in ways that were not always reflected in the box office. So if people have access to Adam Sandler, they want to see him.

And so for me, that was our first kind of big overall deal with Adam, which was to, Hey, these, you know, you've been making movies for a long time, make them here and we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll experiment. We'll do all kinds of things with you. And, and right out of the gate with the, with the do over it, it worked and it's worked every single at bat. Adam Sandler is beloved and people love his movies. And that day that was a data driven thing. Uh, but I don't know if I'd have been looking for it. If I also wasn't an Adam Sandler fan, you know,

So I kind of, I was in the place of the audience in that decision, which was, I'm that guy too. I watch all of his movies too. And I said, if I land on one at night, I'm up for a couple hours to watch it, no matter, even if I was on the way to bed. ♪

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Well, that's the thing. You watch everything. I've never ever said, hey, have you seen? And had you not, you're ahead of me always on everything. Well, I get the, every once in a while, I'm one of these guys who looks forward to being sick so I can stay home and watch. Like I was sick last week and I marathoned a bunch of great old movies I hadn't seen in a long time. So as we're talking, it's a couple of days post-surgery.

SAG award. The SAG award, yes. Tell me what your thoughts were. I thought, first of all, I think you're right. I think when the president of SAG came out, I think she was expecting a standing ovation. Look, there's a funny thing, Rob. The way that I have found, remember, I've been at Netflix now. I've been doing this for like 25 years. So it does seem like a long time. But really in the original programming, we've only been doing it for 10 years.

And so I've not been through that many cycles. There's a very, you know, you have been and there's these negotiations that happen. There's a contract every three years. And I think the thing about the labor negotiations in Hollywood is that there was this kind of accepted dynamic that we don't talk to each other until the contract's up.

And then when we do, about every five contracts, there's a strike. And everyone just kind of got comfortable with that paradigm. And I don't think that's a great way to run the business. And I feel like one thing I'm really committed myself to is that between the cycles, I want to know these folks. And I want to be able to hear what we're up against when we go in and have these conversations because we're all in the exact same business. My goal is for you to have the greatest professional experience of your life and do the best work of your life.

And that sometimes gets tied to working conditions and compensation and fairness and all those things. We all have the exact same interest. It's not like we're trying to kill each other for the last nickel on the table. And so I feel like these negotiations can be more productive and more collaborative. And they have to be in an ongoing basis because every once in a while, there is an existential thing.

Residuals for reruns was an existential thing. There's going to be less work because you're going to rerun my material. So how are we going to be taken care of? And I think the sense that AI was going to be the next existential thing, I don't know if that's true, Rob. I still don't know if that's true.

But I do know that we have to be able to have conversations about these things well in advance of a contract renewal. Do you feel like the AI issue kind of got punted a little bit? I feel like it's going to be, this isn't the end of that conversation. Probably rightfully so. Here, look, I have a specific view on AI. I think that AI is a creator's tool, not a creative tool. And I think that the creators who learn to use these tools better than everyone else are going to win.

So I don't mean creators and not companies who create, but people who create. Your performance is based on your life experiences and your ability to tap into them. And like I said earlier about data being really good at being repetitive, like this is what happened and here's what's going to happen next time. It's not about creating surprises. And I do think it takes human experience to,

to do things like performance and do things like creative ideas and new takes on things. And those things are all influenced by life experiences. And it's feasible that AI can replicate or imitate those things. But there's something about the authenticity and the reality of human experience that people see. And they can also see when it's inauthentic.

The reason why Squid Game worked was because it wasn't engineered to be a global show that people liked around the world. It was a super uniquely authentic Korean show that people recognize the authenticity of. And I think that people will try to use AI to do shortcuts for the human experience. And the truth is, there is no shortcut for the human experience. Well, it actually makes...

Yeah. Yeah.

to have movies and films spit out of an AI. The relationship with that programming, with those stories will not be intense, will not be personal, will not make you cry at night. Do you think there's a world where, I don't know, two years from now, five years from now, whatever it is, I go onto Netflix and there's a box that says, imagine it and watch it. And you type in

And I go, uh, Saving Private Ryan meets When Harry Met Sally starring, uh,

Brad Pitt and or not even not even with the stars, you know, I'm like, like they're doing right now this week with show me two polar bears dancing on an ice cap. Yeah, look, I think there'll be some versions of this, right? Like I said, and I think if you think about, you know, does that just will you do that instead of being told a story? I mean, in the history of humankind, we tell each other stories.

And there's something very innate about it. And to me, it's like, well, I worried for a while at the beginning of the kind of social media creation. Will the next generation of kids watch things that they're not in? Must they be in the next movie or they won't watch it? And I think actually it's like, you know, there is a role there.

a very important human role for storytelling and being a passive listener of a story. And if you remember the beginning of the internet,

There were all these companies that were doing things like write your own ending stories. And famously, Steve Martin was offered a million dollars by one of these companies. And he goes, wait, you want me to write a story that everyone's going to write their own ending to? No, that's not writing a story. And Steve Martin refused the money back then. And they know there's a lot of money back then. But when I looked at that and I said, no, he's exactly spot on. And I think people look at these things like,

Like it's going to be replacing storytelling. It's not. It's going to enhance storytelling. It might be a new visual language down the road. But in general, I think it's going to be a tool for storytelling that's going to make people better storytellers and not replace storytellers. By the way, one more thing, Rob. The thing we have to be careful of is that we're not afraid of it.

Like I said, think about all the tools that seem creepy that we use every day now. And other places and other industries, they're all going to be figuring it out. It's kind of the next evolution of computing. So it's going to impact our lives in a bunch of different ways. So we can't just regulate our way out of it. Yeah, I don't think we can. I'm not a big protectionist in any area. And I think...

you know, it's adapt or die. And listen, like I see it as an actor, uh,

There was a time when being on television, people didn't want to do that. I mean, it pales in comparison to what we're talking about, obviously. But the point being is, if you go against the current all the time, you drown. Yep. And I think this is the cotton gin. I think AI is the cotton gin. I think we're sitting here at the very, very, very beginning of something that's going to make the industrial revolution look like a non-event, I think. Yeah.

And we're ripe for something like this right now. And I also think, Rob, when you think about it in relation to our business, I think about things like you could probably write a program today that would have cast the outsiders. But at the time that Coppola cast the outsiders, you guys were all unknown. That's right. So...

It's pretty remarkable that there's how infrequently that happens, you know, given the access to performance data and all those things that people still, it's still a very human magical act when that happens. And I agree. That's why I'm not, I'm not scared. Am I anxious? Sure. But I'm not scared because I agree that the human magic, whatever it is, whatever you want to call it, there's always going to be at minimum a premium that people are going to want to pay. Now,

I think like anything else in the world, the middle might be some more contraction, but people are always going to want that bespoke handmade. Yeah. They want to see their version of it. They want to see someone else's version of it. They want to be surprised.

That's what I really think is they want to be surprised. And if you, if you wrote the, if you write, if you write all the jokes, you're not going to, you're probably not laughing at them, but it is interesting. If you think about it too, like that idea of, um, what do you, you do much, you must watch TikTok videos and Instagram reels and all these things. And I feel like, uh,

what this generation is laughing at. Yes. It does not bode well for the next wave of creators with better tools. Tell me about how you see the business in the next... Because obviously, there are streamers out there. You don't have to name them. I'm not going to put you on the spot. But clearly, I bet you they won't be around in two or three years and contraction is going to come for sure. You guys are...

Really, at this moment, as far as I can tell, the only company that seems impervious to the winds of change, what do you think the next foreseeable future is like? I think there'll be consolidation because I think there's... But not in the creation of film and television that much because there's still an incredible appetite. It's just there's got to be some efficiency around the delivery model for folks.

So I do think that even though things are happening at a rapid pace, our investment in programming continues to climb and our willingness and desire to tell more stories through film and television and documentary, stand-up comedy, international program continues to grow. And here's what surprises people.

When you turn on your TV today, and almost all Netflix watching happens on the TV, we're about 10% of TV time in the U.S.,

And that's where our most penetrated market, 90% of the time you're on your television, you're doing something other than watching Netflix. Really? I find that shocking. Isn't that crazy? And so I'm saying the idea of the room for growth is unlimited. And that's in the US where we've been around the longest and we're the most penetrated. And so our kind of growth follows really nicely along the trajectory around smart TV growth.

And so the more households that get smart TVs, they wind up doing all kinds of great things on their TV. So now you're in that space, though, you're competing with

gaming, social media, YouTube app on television, all those kind of things. So all the traditional competitors are kind of, they're interesting, but man, you got to watch out in terms of how you're entertaining folks relative to a video game, to an hour on TikTok, to not just against other people's films and series. So to me, it's like there's room to, the business will consolidate a little bit, but the room to grow is enormous. Yeah.

How long till every NFL game is on streaming? It's, I mean, it's so inevitable. I mean, clearly, obviously it is. I mean, it just is. It's funny. I had thought early on, I probably had said it on the record many times that on demand doesn't bring that much to live sports.

But when I said those things, I probably didn't really consider things like wagering and all those things that you can kind of, the layers of technology that layer on top of a game that increase the engagement with that game, which kind of requires streaming and on-demand to fully realize.

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All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I'll never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Okay, so I need to ask you again, circling back to what a movie fan, TV fan you are.

give me your top desert Island movies and your top desert Island TV shows. And they, and I will understand if they're all on Netflix and I will understand if they all aren't. Well, I, my stuff goes back as you, but I'm just saying one of the fucking TV shows better be the West wind. By the way, I think that's one of those things, the beauty of West wing, why West wing has such a long life and people including myself would want this as a desert Island show is a show that you can,

oddly watch over and over again. And it's not because of some big spectacular action sequence. It's incredible dialogue delivered beautifully. And to see it over and over and to see some nuance in the performance over and over again, yourself included, Robb,

is one of those great things that make storytelling in movies and TV shows so enduring. So those shows that have got a lot of episodes, we saw that with Suits. Suits turns out to be like a phenomenon because when you fell into it, all of a sudden you go, oh, I'll stick around for eight years of this for sure. So for me, though, some of my favorite shows were really not around that long. So like Arrested Development was canceled on Fox after three and a half years. And to me, it is...

one of the top comedies in the history of television. And now when I go back to my own, the shows that shaped me. And so I'm a young kid who doesn't sleep much at night and I'm up watching late night television. So weirdly, I think my love for standup comedy developed from watching reruns of Jack Benny and George Burns. And after The Tonight Show went off,

And I watched those shows and think, oh, those guys are doing stand-up. And even their shows were exactly like Seinfeld, where they would give a little comedy premise at the beginning and act it out. So for me, if I was going to be on that island, I would have to have every episode of the Jack Benny show and of the Dick Van Dyke show, which I think is probably today holds up as much as any TV show of its era. Other than the fact that our...

beloved mutual friend, Lorne Michaels, when asked about the Dick Van Dyke, she goes, you know, Rob, at the end, when he fell over the ottoman, I was just worried he would hurt himself.

He had no idea how nimble he was. Yes. And then I think, look, and then you move into the next era for me, which was kind of that kind of great. You and I talk about this a lot, the happy days, Laverne and Shirley, Mark and Mindy days. And all, by the way, all those shows, four, four and a half seasons, not, those are also not long, long lived shows. Um,

Uh, but again, completely, I knew what time these shows were on. I got to the streetlight would come on and I would know that it's just about seven and it's just about time for, for that, you know, for that great run of TV shows. And then into the, into the modern age of television, which I think it's interesting of shows like, um,

like Sopranos, like West Wing. These are kind of no brainers in terms of the shows that are enduring and people go back and revisit again and again and again. I think Orange is the New Black is one of those shows that kind of that stuck the landing throughout every season, through all seven seasons of the show. The Netflix show that I watch over and over again, my favorite comedy on Netflix and people, I hate to say favorites, but it's one that hardly anybody watches.

Nobody likes it but me, but it's called a show called Lady Dynamite with Maria Bamford. One of our early original comedy shows that lasted two seasons. And the second season, again, I don't know why. I'm not even sure why we renewed because no one watched the first season, but I just loved it so much and it still makes me laugh so hard today. And by the way, again, this is that like pick your children. It's so hard for me. I know, I know, I know. I forget like then there's the Norman Lear thing.

world where all in the family, my look, I think back on all in the family. Like I have this peculiar thing that my life memories are kind of played out through all in the family. When, when my sister and brother-in-law moved out of Arizona to Texas, I remember it as Mike and Gloria moving out and it makes me cry every time. That's amazing. Yeah. I love that. That show is, I remember every Saturday. How about that? Saturday nights was a night you put on a hit that. Yeah.

Love American Style was on a Saturday. Was that a Saturday night show? Oh, here's the, I like hearing the themes from those shows. And all of a sudden, I'm like eight years old again. If I hear the Love American Style, I'm in my, I'm at my grandparents. They've let me stay up late to watch Love American Style. And like, I'm immediately transported. Okay, movies.

Movies. You got to hit me with movies. Okay. My movies are very broad. I mean, look at it. I know it's a cliche to say Godfather, but... You got to. You got to. There's no... You got to. It is a cliche, but it's true. It is true. I cannot turn on The Godfather at any point without watching it to the end. One or two or both? It's funny.

One and two are near equal, which is unheard of, I think, in movie making. And I don't know if you've got a chance, if you've seen Coda, the recut of three. It's respectable. Oh, the recut? Yeah, Coppola recut three, called it Coda. And it is actually, it's redeeming for Godfather 3.

I was traumatized by seeing that movie. The first and only movie I ever saw in the theater on Christmas Day was Godfather 3. And I just sat through the credits devastated. Devastated. How did this happen? How did this happen? I wanted to be shot at the end of Godfather 3. You wanted to die at the end of Godfather 3. I wanted to die. And then beyond that, though, my number two might be Airplane.

Wow. I like that. Yeah, which I think, again, is like of its time, it is unbelievably funny. It's rapid fire joke after joke. And it's a blast to watch every time. So to go from Godfather to Airplane is my range. Okay.

Okay, so I go to maybe Spinal Tap then. I see your airplane and I raise you Spinal Tap. Epic. By the way, at the very end, after the credits, when they're doing the interviews, it's clearly outtakes. Yeah, yeah. But Rob asked Michael McKinnon, what would you be doing if you weren't a rock star? And completely deadpan, he goes, I'd be a full-time dreamer. Ha ha ha!

How amazing is that? How about when they're... What I love about that movie are the... Half of the jokes are not even covered. They're off camera. Yeah. Like during the famous, Hello, Cleveland! Yeah. When they're lost backstage. When they're lost backstage, they come across the janitor technician and ask, How do we get to the stage? And he goes...

You're going to go right down the hallway and then going to take a little jog. And the guy goes, oh no, we don't have time for that. But it's like, there's little tiny, so great. That was so good. Yeah. And that, you know, there's like, um, Silverado. Are you a Silverado fan? Ooh, I have to revisit it. Cause I have to say I, and I love the auspices of that movie. Yeah. But, but comedy Western, unless it's blazing saddles, uh,

which is one of my all-time. I didn't get it when it came out. Do I need to go look at it? Yeah. I trust you implicitly. Yeah. No, it's worth it. It's worth the cost of admission, for sure.

And it holds up. It was one of like, for a while, I went to a period where it was one of my five where I would watch it all the time. Big Chill, Godfather, Silverado. I remember Silverado had the trailer for St. Elmo's Fire on its head when it came to the theaters. So that I made sure I went and saw Silverado. Yes, of course.

At least the beginning. Yeah, at least the first five. First trailers of it. Rob, when I think about the movies that... You're in the middle of these, every movie for me from high school on, where you look back at with such fond memory because not only are the movies great, not only are you great in them, but they also happened at a great time in life for people. It's a nice thing where you can make that connection

with your own life and the movie itself. Like I was saying about All in the Family, I think similarly, I was having so much fun when I was loving your movies that I remember them even more fondly. Well, you're so nice to say it. And it is one of the great things about being able to stick around is you run into people who are like,

Those like songs, songs are the soundtracks of our lives. I guess, I don't know what movies that whatever the movies of our lives and it's, it's, you know, people with that their first date at about last night or whatever the hell it is. And it's so cool. What was your, you had that great line of you told me that when you were doing when St. Elmo's fire that it defines the era that you were a sax player and you were cool. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't think St. Elmo's fire is dated, you're,

I'm the coolest sax player.

I think that when did the memo go out? Cause it, it literally, maybe after they saw me as a sax player, maybe that's what caused it. They were like, it's over. You can no longer have a sax solo. Stop it. Just stop. And you must have prior to that. You must have a sax solo. You must have one. But I think when it had trickled down to, okay, now they've let Rob Lowe be a cool guy with a saxophone. We need to end this while, while, while there's still time. You're right.

When you were doing, when the, I think about the list of directors that you worked with. I mean, this is a very, I mean, this is like the legends and it's, for you, like, what is the one where you'd say, oh, I worked with so-and-so and that's why I know how to do this? Well. That's my podcast question. Yeah, no, with the totality of time sitting here today, I would probably answer it.

a little bit differently than when I was younger. So today, it's observing Steven Soderbergh. Mm-hmm. Because it's the power of his convictions. It's shooting a scene with Michael Douglas and I

And he doesn't even cover Michael Douglas. Yeah. Because he knows he's never going to use it. He has a vision. He wants to play it all in one. That's then on the other side of it, it certainly would be being spoiled by Francis Ford Coppola. But the problem with that, Ted, is I thought that's how all movies were made. Yeah. It's a tough way to start. Yeah. It's my, it's like going to the Super Bowl as a rookie. You go, yeah, you play in the NFL and you go to the Super Bowl and

It's great. I thought everybody had a wrap party every Friday with sushi flown in from Los Angeles. And the director, I thought, cooked for the cast and crew all the time in the catering truck making pasta. And we'd show up in the set and maybe we'd shoot and maybe we wouldn't. Or, you know, Francis said, yeah, you know, this wall, which is an actual bearing wall of the house we're shooting in, I'd like it out. Yeah.

And we'd go to our trailer for five hours and they'd take the wall out and they'd shoot the camera going through. I thought that was how movies were made. Yeah.

That's like my son, Tony, his first live standup comedy show he's ever saw was seeing Dave Chappelle in an 80 person room. And so Chris Spencer was at that night and he told Tony, he goes, dude, you're never going to be able to match this. It's amazing. And your support of Chappelle, by the way, which is one of the things I'm proud to have you as a friend because you really will, in an era where people can get

sometimes for really good reason, obviously. But like art, we have to, artists have to be artists, right? When it's within the world of art, it's freedom of speech and you got to let people do what they want to do. And where do you draw the line? It's very tough. And you were one of the, I mean, I know you took a lot of heat for it, but the artistic community knows that

you know, you've got their back and that's super huge. I think, look, I think, I think like all art forms do, but particularly standup comedy has got, it's got to have a, be an open playground. It's gotta be a place where you can learn to push boundaries by touching them every once in a while. Every once in a while, you have to touch the fence to realize, you know, how far things can go. And I, and I think some real magical things happen in that space. Some of it, you know, and like everything else, it's a little messy.

And if you know that you're going to get crushed and run out of the business every time you say something wrong, you're going to stop saying things. And I do think that I think stand-up comics play a really pivotal role in culture to give us a way to talk about things that are uncomfortable to talk about. And if we take that away from them, I think we really hurt society beyond just hurting art form. I think we hurt the society as well.

Ted Sarandos, I'm so glad that you, you're such a busy, so busy that you took time out to do this. And I love you to death as a friend, but I'm really glad to give you a chance for people who may not know, like,

this side of you to get to know you like I know you. And you know how much I adore you. You're the best. Oh, Rob, I love you, man. And I love this. I love your show, by the way. I think you're, I listened to most of them and I got to tell you, well, on my short list, I have to include my wife, who I thought was a great guest.

That's better than me. You have to admit. You guys are a good team. And I thought your wife, I think your episode together was brilliant and so fun. And of your celebrity guests that I really loved, your Michael Douglas episode was a masterclass, I thought. I love stories about Hollywood and he told a bunch that I'd never heard before. And just, I learned so much on that podcast. It was incredible.

I'm glad that you picked that one because I think the Michael Douglas one, if I had to pick one, it's like children. And, you know, Michael's been around. He's done a lot of interviews. Yeah. We feel like we know a lot about Michael Douglas. And I think I was able to get stuff out of him that nobody ever. The story about, can we just discuss the story about Deborah Winger biting him in the face? The fuck? It's unbelievable. I got to work with Deborah Winger on the ranch for many years here. No biting.

No biting. No biting. No biting allowed. Well, thank you. We're due to see each other soon. We'll catch up more, but this was great. I really appreciate it. Rob, I really had a great time. Thanks for having me and we'll see you this weekend. Yes. More fun and games. Thanks, Ted. Love you. All right. There you have it. Direct from the horse's mouth, Ted Sarandos of Netflix. What he says, you can pretty much take to the bank and book it.

Thanks for listening. We've got more amazing guests lined up, but that was a doozy. And that's a busy dude. So I'm glad he took the time out to come hang out with us, aren't you? You know what time it is. It's time to check the lowdown line. Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-

So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey, Rob. This is Jonathan. I am from South Florida, and I know you love golf, and I'm interested to hear what is your best golf story, whether it is based on your own performance or whether it's based on somebody that you play golf with. I'd like to hear what your best accomplishment is or best story is with respect to golf.

playing this wonderful game of golf that we all enjoy and abhor from time to time. Thank you. Oh, what a great question. I couldn't have put it better myself. I'm actually, the minute I'm done with this, I'm going to go to the driving range. Look, I'm so blessed that I get to go to some of the greatest courses in the world. And I finally got to Augusta

with my good friend, Porter Payne, whose father, Billy Payne, was the chairman of Augusta for its resurgence and really built the modern Augusta. And it's everything you think. It's everything you think. And so that in and of itself. And then, as you know, we all remember certain shots. And Amen Corner, the par three, I shank it off the tee, shank it.

And then I hit a lob wedge over a tree within two feet of the cup, tap in for a birdie. I'll never forget it as long as I live. That's going to be a hard one to ever top. But yeah, we love and we suffer with the world's greatest game. That's for sure. Thanks for your question. I'll see you next week. Thanks for joining me. And we'll have more to come on Literally.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Sports and Media by Devin Bryant.

Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally.

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