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cover of episode S&P 500 to 15,000? | Mel Mattison on Bretton Woods 2.0, Revaluation of Gold, and Why He Expects A Violent Stock Market Correction In Early 2025

S&P 500 to 15,000? | Mel Mattison on Bretton Woods 2.0, Revaluation of Gold, and Why He Expects A Violent Stock Market Correction In Early 2025

2025/1/9
logo of podcast Monetary Matters with Jack Farley

Monetary Matters with Jack Farley

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Mel Mattison: 我预测2025年股市将经历剧烈波动,可能出现10%-30%的回调,但最终将在年底达到7000点。这主要基于以下几个因素:首先,我仍然看好美国政府持续的巨额赤字支出对股市上涨的推动作用,直到接近2027-2028年的退休金悬崖期。其次,我预计社会保障问题将比预期更早地影响市场,导致市场提前出现大幅回调。再次,我认为市场对通货膨胀的担忧被夸大了,而债券市场表明通货膨胀率和实际GDP增长率可能都在2%以上。最后,我认为斯科特·贝森特担任财政部长,以及特朗普政府的政策,可能导致市场回调,从而促使政府采取重大经济改革。 至于回调的原因,我认为这与政府的财政赤字问题和社会保障问题有关。政府需要解决这些问题,但这些问题的解决可能会导致市场短期内出现波动。此外,市场对通货膨胀的担忧以及特朗普政府的政策也可能导致市场回调。 然而,我相信市场最终会反弹,并在2025年底达到7000点。这主要是因为我相信特朗普政府的政策最终将推动经济增长,从而提振股市。 此外,我还认为,在2025年上半年,市场可能出现一次更大幅度的回调,甚至可能达到20%-30%。这将是由于市场对特朗普政府政策的担忧以及潜在的负面新闻造成的。然而,我相信这次回调将是短暂的,市场将迅速反弹。 Jack Farley: 我主要关注的是Mel对市场未来走势的预测,以及他如何将这些预测与社会保障等长期问题联系起来。我质疑了Mel对共和党政策和社会保障的看法,并探讨了市场可能持续上涨而Mel的现金策略失效的风险。我还就Mel对Russell 2000指数和新兴市场的看法,以及他关于‘布雷顿森林体系2.0’和货币重置的观点进行了提问。

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Key Insights

Why does Mel Mattison expect a violent stock market correction in early 2025?

Mel Mattison anticipates a violent correction due to the unsustainable debt and deficit situation in the U.S., combined with potential policy changes under the new administration. He believes the market will react sharply to the realization of these fiscal challenges, leading to a 10-30% decline in the S&P 500.

What are the key drivers behind Mel Mattison's bullish outlook for the S&P 500?

Mattison cites the AI boom, the wealth effect from COVID-induced asset price inflation, and the fiscal impulse from massive deficit spending as key drivers. He also highlights the impact of higher interest rates on money markets, which have provided incremental spending power.

What is the significance of Bretton Woods 2.0 in Mel Mattison's forecast?

Bretton Woods 2.0 represents a potential global monetary reset to address the unsustainable sovereign debt bubble. Mattison believes this reset could involve coordinated efforts to control yields, reduce debt-to-GDP ratios, and introduce a new reserve asset system, which could stabilize and then propel markets higher.

What role does gold play in Mel Mattison's monetary reset theory?

Gold is seen as a potential neutral reserve asset in the proposed monetary reset. Mattison suggests that revaluing gold could help devalue the dollar against it, providing a release valve for global debt issues. He also notes that central banks have been increasing their gold reserves, signaling a shift away from the dollar as the primary reserve asset.

Why does Mel Mattison believe the S&P 500 could reach 15,000 by 2028?

Mattison’s 15,000 S&P 500 target is based on a combination of pro-growth policies, controlled inflation, and structural changes in the global monetary system. He expects real earnings growth and inflationary pressures to drive nominal earnings higher, leading to a significant market rally.

What are the potential risks to Mel Mattison's forecast of a market correction?

The primary risk is that the market continues to rise without a significant correction, leaving investors with cash on the sidelines. Additionally, unexpected policy changes or geopolitical events could disrupt the anticipated trajectory of the market.

How does Mel Mattison view Bitcoin in the context of a monetary reset?

Mattison sees Bitcoin as a potential, though unlikely, part of a new reserve asset system. While he acknowledges its growing acceptance as a store of value, he believes it is more probable that gold and other traditional assets will play a larger role in any monetary reset.

What is Mel Mattison's outlook for the U.S. dollar in a global monetary reset?

Mattison expects the U.S. dollar to remain a core reserve currency but not the primary reserve asset. He foresees a move toward a more neutral reserve asset system, potentially involving a basket of currencies, gold, and other assets, to reduce reliance on the dollar.

What could trigger a rapid market decline in 2025 according to Mel Mattison?

A rapid decline could be triggered by policy announcements from the new administration, such as mass deportations or tariffs, which could create market uncertainty. Additionally, concerns over inflation and debt sustainability could lead to a sharp sell-off.

How does Mel Mattison plan to navigate the volatile market in 2025?

Mattison is raising cash, buying put options, and using call options to limit downside risk while maintaining some exposure to potential upside moves. He plans to redeploy cash into the market during any significant corrections, focusing on small-cap and equal-weight S&P 500 ETFs.

Chapters
Mel Mattison, a monetary theorist and former fintech executive, accurately predicted the S&P 500 reaching 6,000 by the end of 2024. This discussion explores the factors behind his bullish outlook, including the AI boom, lingering effects of COVID, and increased interest rates.
  • Accurate prediction of S&P 500 reaching 6000 by year-end 2024
  • Factors contributing to bullish outlook: AI boom, wealth effect from COVID, increased interest rates on debt and massive deficit spending

Shownotes Transcript

Mel Mattison, investor, monetary theorist, and former fintech executive, joins Monetary Matters to share how he’s thinking about the next few years for the financial system. Stunned that Mel’s “6,000 by year-end 2024” prediction actually happened, Jack asks Mel why he now expects a violent correction in early 2025 while at the same time extending his S&P 500 forecast to the stunningly high 15,000 level by the end of 2028. They also discuss Bretton Woods 2.0, incoming Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, potential revaluation of gold, and several advanced monetary topics. Recorded December 30, 2024. 

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Mel Mattison’s book “Quoz”: https://www.melmattison.com/quoz)