32.14 - MU Podcast - The Mutilation Psy-Op
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Welcome to Mysterious Universe, Season 32, Episode 14. Coming up on the show, we've got the great cattle mutilation deception, alien fallout fallacies, and Ingo Swann's niece hunts the controllers. I'm your host, Benjamin Grundy. Joining me is Aaron Wright. Oh, speaking of fallacies, we're going to be talking about Ingo Swann. Yes, penetration indeed. Yes, the old penetration joke. Ingo Swann.

Yep, the psychic bender. The innuendo is extreme in some of those stories. I didn't know he had a niece, but she released this book just a couple of days ago now, Conjunction World. Oh. A Journey Through the Mirror. Her name's Ellie Flippen. Spent a lot of time with Ingo, lived with him in Manhattan for years when she was younger. And she's got a lot of stories to tell.

I'm sure she does. I'm sure she saw a lot. Very interesting setup because Ingo Swann, of course, if you don't know, he was heavily involved in the remote viewing programs in the 1970s and 80s. He was responsible for inventing the

coordinate remote viewing protocol, which ended up being used by the military. It was used in the Stargate program at SRI. So he was- Well, not just that, also intelligence agencies, three-letter agencies. It was kind of picked up by a lot of people very quickly. He was instrumental in creating that system, which became, I guess, the technical standard for remote viewing. And of course, he was a prolific author and psychic telepathic investigator, published a number of books.

And he had a lot to say about the idea of, well, alien conspiracies, the idea that there are hidden forces that pull the strings in our society, that pull the strings in our world. He very explicitly said that some of these entities that pull these strings are not human. They're not human forces. He alluded to, I think he used the term, not the controllers, I used that term in the intro, but he called them the equalizers. Oh, yeah.

He claimed that there was, and this is through his psychic investigations, he claimed that there was a equalizing force that was hell-bent on restraining human beings' innate psychic abilities. Okay.

The term equalizer is a little bit abstract. That's the term she uses in the book. I don't know if he was explicit about that term, but the general idea is they're a controlling force. Right. Okay. He alluded to them being driven by profit, power, and control. And so, Emily, sorry, not Emily, Ellie-

in this new book, Conjunction World, she follows on from her uncle's lead. And she starts reading through her uncle's work and starts to uncover what she believes are hidden clues that he's left behind that will send her on this path to unmask the equalizers, to unmask the controllers. Is she doing this in our waking reality or does she herself engage in remote viewing?

It's basically like a road trip. Like a remote viewing road trip? Or she's just... No, like she goes to Arizona and, you know, tries to open a portal. Yeah.

Oh, that's just obligatory. We all do that. Yeah, she goes to some ancient rock that the Cherokee worshipped and tries to open a portal. Great. And then she talks about weird portals. It's a lot of portals. Okay. All right. A lot of portals coming up. What have you got coming up? Well, actually, I was at a dinner party only recently and we were just sitting around the table chatting and I was talking to this. Now, when you have kids, of course, you start hanging out with the other parents from the school.

And I was talking to one of these parents, lovely woman, and she says to me, oh, have you ever heard of the phenomenon of cattle mutilations? And I was just like, well, and she's not familiar with what I do really. So I was like, yes, I'm very familiar with cattle mutilations. Why did that come up at a dinner party? Because it was just, we were just talking about unusual things and it kind of came up. But you're right, because immediately it grabbed my attention because she is, you know, quite already from what I've spoken to in the past about, you know, knowledgeable about, you know, kind of paranormal topics.

Topics, you know, she's had friends that have engaged in, like she was telling me the story about a friend of hers who went on like months long retreats to those places where you don't talk. And she kind of like, I don't know if it's- Like a meditation retreat. Like a meditation retreat. But you're silent. Yeah, you're silent, you don't talk. But she didn't necessarily have an out of body experience. But what she did have is she basically saw like this entity or this force that

That is essentially controlling humanity. So it kind of all fitted very nicely with what you were describing, but she's like, it wasn't good or evil. It was just like, she didn't see it in that sense. It was more like it was just some type of very- Like a restraining force. An ominous kind of energy.

I guess if that's what you see after not talking for months, then that's what you see. What's this got to do with cattle mutilations? Well, that's nothing to do with cattle mutilations. My point was that she was already quite aware of many of these topics, but cattle mutilations was a completely new thing to her.

And I thought about it and I was like, for me, it feels like, well, you know, yeah, everyone knows about cattle mutilation. So I thought I'm just going to do a little informal survey and I'm already considered to be unusual anyway, but I thought, what the hell, I'm just going to do it. So I happened to ask another group of parents whether or not they knew anything about cattle mutilations. What is it?

Which is surprising. You do it at your kid's school? Up to school, as you pick it up at the car park. Well, it's surprisingly difficult to bring it up in polite conversation. Did you have a clipboard and your weird suit on? No, I wasn't quite to that point, but it did feel like that point. It was only three or four other parents I asked. But what surprised me, they hadn't heard about it.

And I thought, hang on a second. It's not a normie topic of discussion. I don't know why that's surprising to you. It's completely surprising. Why? Pardon me. Why? It's just very obscure. Well, for me, I don't feel like it's obscure at all. It was kind of like this mind-blowing moment of this realization that people don't know about cattle mutilations, let alone what could be behind them and what could be going on. The only way I'd assume they know is if they're into UFOs. Well, that.

That's the only. Or if they're just interested in topics, right? And where she...

learned about cattle mutilations, actually. It really kicked me off on this kind of tangent of looking a little bit deeper into cattle mutilations. And it just so happens, look, if you're a child of the 90s, outside of the X-Files, nothing else inspires the sense of the strange and unusual than this sound, if you can bring it up for me, Ben. Oh, you've given me 50 billion videos here, so give me a number. I don't know. This is in your audio tracks here. Okay, let's have a listen.

Unsolved Mysteries.

But I am going to tell you some of the stories that are in there. And then, of course, we'll go back to the original, the OG of cattle mutilations. I want to dive into some of the work of, of course, Linda Moulton Howe, who's done superb work in cattle mutilations. Strange Harvest, right? Strange Harvest and Alien Harvest. She's written...

numerous books about the issues. She's an Emmy award-winning journalist for her work in catamutilations. But really what this made me realize is this, and I'm not saying this is the answer for everything, right? This is not the answer for all

all of it. But I'm quite convinced, and I'm going to attempt to convince you on this episode, that aliens had nothing to do with it. Well, when you told me that you were working on this, I immediately thought of Colm Kelleher's book, Brain Trust. Yeah. Because he went into the whole cattle mutilation phenomenon, but seemed to link it to prion disease and Alzheimer's. The idea was that government forces, official forces, were covertly

taking cattle to see the preponderance of prions to get a gauge of how much it would be in the food supply and how much it would be in the population. Yep. And obviously that isn't something that you want to make public. Absolutely not. Because as he showed from the rates of increasing dementia and Alzheimer's, it was...

It seemed to be a link. There seemed to be a correlation. It was spiking. It's off the charts. I think he's onto something. What I'm going to be going into today goes along those lines, but it actually goes back further. It's linked to the military-industrial complex. It's linked to three-letter agencies.

And of course, Netflix has put out this great new television show. And I'm quite critical of Netflix because I feel like, and obviously I can't prove it, this is just my opinion. I feel like major outlets, and we know social media is, but things even like Netflix, Amazon, I feel that three-letter agencies have their fingers in the background and are putting stuff out, green-lighting stuff for a reason, to direct a narrative, to put people in a certain direction.

And cattle mutilation has got me because I'm like, hang on a second. It's like all of a sudden you have this new television series that comes out. So is this how your friend heard about it on the Netflix series? Yeah, from the Netflix show. So it was like, and it's great. Like it's really, really good. But guess what it does? It pretty much, and I'll get into it, but it pretty much goes down the line of

It's aliens. It doesn't say it directly, but it does, I feel, lead you to this high strangeness. And it is already, you know, cattle mutilations are high strangeness, but it does lead you to this sense that it's alien.

It's always aliens. And I don't think that's what's going on. And funnily enough, we look at the flaps and the flaps seem to go in waves of 20-year periods of where there'll be an explosion of activity, the 1970s in particular, across Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, those areas. They've got a lot of activity. Apparently, there's up to 10,000 reports since 1973 of cattle mutilations. You've got people like the great Chris O'Brien who wrote Stalking the Herd. He's saying that maybe only one in 10

of these things get reported. And it's like, yeah, he's probably right. And if you look into ancient reports, apparently there's reports of the things that are similar to cattle mutilations going back to the reign of King James in England. So there may be a natural phenomena which is occurring here, but there's definitely something else that's going on. And I think that it comes down to a great scientific data hoax. But all will be revealed as we go into it. So let's

Set up exactly. If you're not familiar with catamutilations, I'm sure if you're listening to the show, you probably already know. But if you're not familiar, let me just give you the setup. Play Snippy for me, please, Ben. This is one of the earliest cases that set everything off back in 1967. What a classic. Snippy the poor bastard. Linda Moulton Howe. In September 1967, on the King Ranch in the San Luis Valley of Colorado, an Appaloosa mare called Snippy was found dead and stripped of flesh from the neck up.

Some said this was the work of flying saucers. Who or whatever did it, no one knows. Some people call it cattle mutilation. Whatever it's called, it's a strange harvest. Parts missing each other near an eye or tongue. The lower jaw is stripped of all flesh. The sexual organs are cut out. The rectum is cored out. And in some cases, the blood is gone. Adding to the mystery is lack of tracks or other evidence.

Mutilated cattle have been found on wet sand or rain-soaked ground with no tracks around them, not even their own.

Looking forward to marking this video family-friendly in the YouTube settings, the YouTube ratings. I also, I do have to apologize. I should have said this when I was talking about, you know, injecting things into polite conversation. Viewer discretion is completely advised. That was gross. It is very gross. It is very horrible. But, you know, as Linda points out there, this isn't just simply some rancher finding a dead cow in their field.

There's all of these unusual elements to it, such as the skin seemingly is burnt. There are strange holes in it. The rectum is cored out, like actually cored out in a circular kind of fashion, like some type of instrument, laser instrument has been used. There's no entomology, like there's no insects that are invading the corpse, which is normally what would happen. There's no scavengers involved.

coming up to the corpse. It doesn't break down in the typical way you'd expect. Which are all factors which have led you on multiple previous episodes on this show to conclude that it is alien activity. Yes, you're right. You're absolutely right. And I'm not going to back down from that. You just did a show less than a year ago with the seals having their skulls caught out and brains taken out by some laser device. What I think that is now, look, it could be aliens.

But I don't think that that's what it is. I think that this is a narrative which is being established. Because remember as well, even with the recent Grush stuff, remember how I've been saying that there's just something off? Is this something the way that all of a sudden this information is coming out and we're kind of being spooned? They've had this information for so long. Why now? Why give us this? It's because it's part of a greater narrative.

to cover up something which is being done by human beings. Of course, it makes people are going to look and go, oh, it's aliens. It's UFO. And they're all excited. In fact, I think for some of us, myself included, you kind of want it to be aliens. I'm willing to, I'm open-minded. I'm willing to hear your argument. I would especially like to hear, since this has been around since the 60s, how this kind of technology of

Insanguination, no footprints, laser-like incisions, how that existed in the late 1960s, I would love to know. It's existed for a long time. And once again, we come back to the military industrial complex and access to technologies, which essentially are being hidden from us at least for a hundred years. You've got people like Nick Cook. I'll play some audio from Nick Cook in a moment. Of course, he was from Jane's Magazine. I think is he the guy that also wrote The Hunt for Zero Point, if I recall correctly? Yeah.

Yeah, he's saying that what's likely happened is that the military, the government, has cracked certain technologies.

But these technologies are so advanced that it really does come across as being like sci-fi technologies, but they don't want it getting out, getting it out for at least a hundred years. And what better place to use it than in something like the cattle mutilation phenomenon. And it comes back to you go, well, why Aaron? You know, why, why not just go to ranches and ask them to get samples from their cattle? Because if they do that, it's going to spark panic, a great panic. Now, pardon me in the background, what you're playing here, Ben,

This is just some B-roll footage that came from the reboot of Unsolved Mysteries, which of course I'll link to the episode in the show notes of the cattle mutilation. So you can see here they're doing things like holding Geiger counters up to the carcass to see what's going on. But then we go into this video here. Take a drink of your cucumber water. He comes to me before the show and he's like, would you like a cucumber water or lemon water? I'm like,

lemon water, obviously. It's delicious. What's cucumber water? What does it even taste like? I only had two cans left, so it was like, I can't remember. Yeah, so you admit. It tastes like ass, but it's fine. So, this is a rancher by the name of M.T. Anderson. Uh,

He said that he's known about cattle mutilations for roughly 25 years. He heard about them back in school, but he didn't really believe it. And this is the thing, right? Even ranchers, ranchers that are in the field that are in, you know, having these experiences, they don't know. Just pause this video for me. Number three, just, just pause this one for a second, Ben, because I'll come back to this one. Um,

Um, but in this, he was saying, look, it was June of 2021 when he saw that this heifer wasn't acting quite right. And he said they trailed it for about two miles and noticed that there was just something off, but they left. They thought, okay, she's all right. They left. They came back the following day and they saw that she was laying dead.

But when they got closer, they realized, hang on a second, she's not just dead. She's mutilated. She's lying in the middle of the field. She was on her right side. Her face. No, just don't go into that one just yet. I'm not playing it. Okay, good. I'm previewing it. You're previewing it. It's pretty horrible. You know, her face and skin was kind of pulled back. The tongue was removed. A couple of feet of something was cut into her back. But like classic mutilations, there was no tracks.

No signs of struggles, no birds, no small mammals. It's really a typical kind of cattle mutilation case, but from 2021. But this stuff has not stopped. From what was going on, the explosion of phenomena in the late 1960s in middle America and then into the 1970s, it still continues today. And guess what happened when MT Anderson called the local sheriff's office? Because apparently-

A lot of ranches that are familiar with cattle mutilations that do experience them, they don't report it because there's this sense of pride about them protecting their animals. And if they've got an unexplained mutilation going on, they don't want to report it, right? It's not the kind of thing you want to advertise. That's correct. But this M.T. Anderson, you know...

salt of the earth kind of guy from watching him in the documentary. This is him on the screen. No, this is Jeremiah Holmes, which we'll come back to in a moment. He's with the Wheeler County Sheriff's Office. He's an investigator. But with MT Anderson, he was like, I called the Sheriff's Office. This is in Grant County in Oregon, roughly 200 miles southeast of Portland. The sheriff came out. They did some investigation. They determined that the cow was killed by a bear.

Okay. And he's like, we've got bears around here, but in all my time I've been here, we've never had anything killed by a bear. And certainly it hasn't had a two foot cut in its back or no tracks, no struggle. You remember, these are like, what, 300 to 600 pound beasts. I like how the bear did a perfect incision around the jawline. Right. Yeah. Right.

Right. It just doesn't make any sense. So then also in the documentary, you've got 20 miles East, you've got still in Grant County, you've got Matt Carter. He's a rancher. He first heard about cattle mutilations from his friend. This was August of 2020.

He was heading to the south side of his ranch when he saw once again a cow lying on its side next to a water trough. He goes up and inspects it. He finds that the tongue is cut out, the upper lip is cut off, but the scene was odd. Again, no struggle, and there was a mutilation, but the mutilation was reasonably close to his home. It's like, if you're going to have a cow mutilated...

It's going to make noise. They're going to make noise, but this thing didn't. What force? Again, non-human forces. Well, non-human or human with advanced technology.

that can utilize this. Like even we're talking about, dare I say it, things like portable tractor devices, like tractor beam devices that can hold things down. It gets crazy. Like the type of technology, like portable backpack lasers that are used for extracting organs. I've got some videos coming up in a moment from a really great under the radar documentary from 1997 that describes this particular technology, which I think explains a lot of what's going on.

But again, he's like, why is it so close to his home? Then in the winter of 2022, less than half a mile from his house, another mutilation took place. No blood this time, no signs of foul play. And what really stood out, which was typical again, but that there was two feet of snow. There was no tracks.

At all. Two feet of fresh snow, nothing. Nothing could have gotten in there without leaving tracks. He called the state police who attended the scene. They walked around. They also found that there were no tracks. They said that it was probably a predator attack.

That blazed its lips off. Do the secret government agents that have the laser backpacks also have levitating backpacks that carry the laser backpacks? No, they have silent helicopters. Okay. They have silent helicopters. Right. Because, I mean, Colm Kelleher's book, again, which I thought was really good, he did have examples where there were eyewitnesses

Who saw, you know, cables coming down from these black helicopters with a metal winch basically grabbing cattle and taking it up to the helicopter. But also in the same vein, this is why when I recall covering this book, the conclusion that I came to was more along the lines of,

There's multiple forces at play. That's absolutely a possibility. Because there are eyewitnesses who describe saucer-like objects literally sucking a cow up into the craft. And we have all sorts of high strangeness involved with cattle mutilations, like herds disappearing, like Paul Sinclair's stories from the UK.

entire herds vanishing from the corral and then reappearing hours later except one of them's missing. So there's extreme high strangeness that leans towards the idea of this being non-human. Now with Colm Kelleher's work, you can also argue, well,

maybe there's human forces like what you're describing who are interested in the cattle for exactly the same reasons. And when we talk about the abduction program, we understand that it seems as though these entities, whatever they are, that are behind UFOs, responsible for UFOs, have a program that is heavily invested in the genetics of human beings. They're invested in human beings and our population. And so they have this moment

motivation to make sure that there's no dangerous prions in the food supply for the same reason that the government has this motivation to check on prions in the food supply. Actually, on that note, so we might get into that a little bit later on because there's so many questions here. All I'm doing is presenting this as a new angle as to what

could be going on. And I think that it's easy to get carried away with the UFO phenomenon. It's easy to get carried away with it being some type of non-human thing because on top of this, I think we don't want to believe that human beings are capable of doing this to other human beings. But sadly, they absolutely are. What do you mean other human beings? You're talking about cattle. No, no, no. Well, but...

why they're doing it to cattle because it does link into human beings. This is the reason, right? But also, it's like you've got abductees. As you just pointed out, you've got abductees describing witnessing cattle mutilations taking place. You've got hunters, for example, describing seeing elk being lifted up by craft of some kind in some type of beam technology and flown away. This stuff does sit like it's alien, like it's so foreign, and people are seeing greys, apparently. Yeah.

But are they? Oh, here we go. Are they? Or is it part of some greater program because we got something, and when I say we, the American government at the end of the Second World War got something very, very wrong, and so did the British government.

So the British, so this is why you have cattle mutilations in Australia. This is why you have cattle mutilations in the UK. And this is why you have cattle mutilations. Yes, they're over a lot of the United States, but really they're in a very specific area. But let me continue because we'll get back into it. What I do want to play for you though, this is where it does become strange. So in that number one, three there, that Wheeler County bend. So this is the Wheeler County Sheriff's Office, Officer Jeremiah Holmes.

And he said that he's been contacted by a number of ranchers. He says, we've had five confirmed mutilations in the county since 2019. But in July of 2020, he received a phone call from a rancher and he said the rancher didn't want him to think that people calling him weird, or he didn't want people to call him weird, so he's reluctant. Just pause this for a second for me here, Ben. So what this is, this is an alleged cattle mutilation, right? So he goes out, Jeremiah Holmes goes to investigate

He says he found this cow sitting under a juniper tree, its head six inches off the ground. He has never seen anything like this. This isn't a cow resting. This is a mutilated cow in full on rigor mortis sitting upright. It just looks like it's sick. It's just looking, yeah, like it's dead. Its eye has also been called out.

Where are the legs? They're there underneath it. But he said that when it was investigated, that there was classic mutilation incisions in the beast. Wow. And predators, he said, will go for soft tissue. And it's just stiff in that position. It's just stiff.

Just sitting in that position. And this is July of 2020. So this stuff is still happening. It's still going on. And it really is strange, right? It's really disturbing. And this is why it does attract so much attention.

But why is it that you've got these people bringing more attention to it? Is it simply because it's strange and because it's strange, it's entertaining? I've made an entire career out of that. So yeah, that's one possibility. Or is it that this is part of some type of information or disinformation program, which has been running for a long time? Now, I'm not saying people like Linda Moulton Howe are involved in this. God forbid.

Yeah, God forbid. But I do wonder if there are certain people that are fed this information for a purpose to distract people, to get people into this fury of like, what happened to me the other day? All right. An intelligent person is like, hey, have you heard of cattle mutilations? Is it aliens? Oh, yeah.

I'm going to look up who directed this Netflix series, and then we'll get to the bottom of this.

This is something that I wasn't aware of. I knew that snippy had the classical mutilation signs, but apparently the spinal cord had been pulled from the channel with no entry or exit wound. How do you do that? How do you pull a spinal cord? You're going to tell us about the laser packs. Well, the laser packs will come in. Also, the brain was gone without any impact to the cranium. It was like the brain was like, I don't know. I don't. How do you do that?

What's going on? Was it beamed out? Well, there's holes. I mean, there's the nose and there's the ears. Did they pull it out through there? But there was no impact to the cranium. So it wasn't like there was some blunt force trauma. Again, with cattle, you've got ranchers saying, you really can't bring these things down with even four to five people without leaving some type of marks, tracks, injuries. Yeah.

there's something that's going on here. The other thing about the snippy case is apparently, according to the tracks that they did find, there weren't tracks around the carcass that was found, but what there was is that a hundred feet away, it was like that the horse had pranced around in two or three circles and then was lifted and then dumped a hundred feet distant. So this starts fitting in with these scenes that

These things are being lifted by something.

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And it's like, well, yeah, maybe a UFO or could it be a helicopter? So let's go back to Linda Moulton Howe's documentary, A Strange Harvest, an excellent documentary. I want you to play number three for me, please, Ben. This is where Linda is basically setting up the scene that it's highly likely that UFOs are involved in these things, at least from the reports that she was receiving back in the 1970s and 1980s. I have half a dozen eyewitnesses who over the last 15 years have

have told me, total conscious, that they have watched something that was round and glowing put down a beam of light. They've either seen the animal lifted up or they have seen the animal put down. As a journalist, as an investigative journalist, I have to report this is what people are seeing. This is what people themselves have experienced. And she's right. There are numerous people that have come forward saying that they've seen some kind of light

um that is lifting up the cow in some type of beam uh you know very sci-fi kind of stories that are coming out but these are people that are just kind of regular people that just see extraordinary things i don't think every single person is making it up

But perhaps what they're seeing is not what they think it is. Because of the conditioning of these programs and of the narrative that is out there, you immediately go to UFO. You don't go to, is this some type of experimental government aircraft? Or dare I say, it's not even experimental. It's just a hidden aircraft that has been developed by the military, which no one knows about.

Talk to Michael Schratt. He's got decades of history of these crafts that are being utilized. You know, you talk to Nick Cook who's talking about the Hunt for Zero Point, the technologies that are being used. Why though would they use them for cattle mutilations? Yeah, so they're not being used in warfare or anything that you would think they would be used for. They're used to take a rancher's cow away.

and chop it up and put it back. And then dump it back, right? So again, we fall back to the alien narrative because why would a human being want to do that? Why would they do that? And there's more examples of this. You've got David Perkins actually describing what, while people have not seen a craft, they've seen evidence of something that would be consistent with a craft being involved. This is the one that really turned my head around way out in the middle of nowhere. A female cow lying on its right side

and it looked like it had been dropped from at least a thousand feet in the air. Its horn was driven back into the side of its head where it had hit on that side and drove the horn right back into the skull. Its leg was broken, its ribs were broken, and Officer Valdez pointed out a band about perhaps two inches of indented hair. He speculated that it had been

Grabbed from the air somehow and hoisted up by its back legs, mutilated in the air and dropped back to the ground. Yeah, there's quite a few cases like that. And we've even seen this in mutilation cases that aren't necessarily cattle.

Yes, you're correct. Even some human mutilation cases. Well, and that's where things become even more murky and obviously upsetting because you do have reports throughout South America of human mutilations. And of course, there's a report from, was it Tony Dodd that found the carcass on top of the coal pile? Yeah, there was one we were covering. I think it was from Brazil or maybe it was Argentina where a couple of guys were driving home late at night and he

he thought he hit someone. He thought he hit a guy, but what had happened was the guy dropped down from the sky. That's right. Landed into the windshield. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, look, and that's all a possibility as well. And as I pointed out at the start of this episode is I'm not saying that this is an answer for everything. However, I think a lot of it is occurring because of scientific mistakes that human beings have made. And you know what the other possibility is, right? Is that

There's some clandestine human group that is performing these mutilations for the purposes that will become clear later in this episode. But maybe the aliens have been watching this as well and going, why are you doing that? And then copying it.

Like they're doing the same thing to work out why the human beings are doing that. And in fact, there's some Leo Sprinkle audio that I'm going to play you in a moment with a regression where essentially a witness describes experiencing something similar. It suggests that it's definitely extraterrestrial. But the good news is, is that if there is any good news in this kind of stuff, is that there are a number of senior investigators, chief investigators across counties all throughout the US that

go, look, a catamutilation, regardless of who's doing it, is a crime. These things are crimes, so how do we approach it? So some investigators back in the late 1990s decided to approach these catamutilation cases as being homicides.

Using the same protocols of investigation that you would use with homicide and applying it to the cattle mutilation. Obviously, it's not a homicide, but you can use these same forensics and investigative techniques to perhaps give you new insight as to what's occurring. So I bring you to Manuel Archuleta. He's from Taos in New Mexico.

He experienced something very strange that was consistent with a cattle mutilation and brought in the local county sheriff. And let's talk about his story and then we'll get into what happened. One of the first mutilation cases to be investigated as a homicide was in Arroyo Seco, a rural area just outside Taos. Rancher Manuel Archuleta says he found his 11-month-old bull dead and mutilated, having seen the animal in perfect health only days before.

The next morning I went to check him again. I found the bull dead. Manuel called the DA's office and the task force swung into action. We went ahead and skinned it and discovered a big hole in the neck, about five by eight, that appeared to have some burn marks on it inside.

We did find a substance that we... Lysopax. ...called the yellow powder. It didn't seem to belong on the animal. It was found around his neck wound, a small hole in the neck of the animal. The substance was analysed. It showed a lethal dose of potassium, 7,000% more than you would normally find in a dead animal.

the forensic scientists in charge of the analysis had no explanation as to how it got there. Yeah, that brings to mind some of these discoveries we've seen over the years of the substances involved.

Which are very conventional, aren't they? They're very conventional, but 7,000 times the levels of potassium in that necropsy report. How does that even happen? So, well, the thing is, right, so when you die, right, your cells start to break down, and when they break down, they do release potassium. Like, you release huge amounts of potassium. But you know, from a forensics point of view, how much potassium you should have at certain, you know,

moments after death, whether how many hours it is, it follows a scale. So for it to be 7,000 times more, and of course people- But do we know what could increase it to the 7,000 times more? Yes. Potassium. No, but how would you get the potassium into the animal? That's the great question. How did you get- What, do they take a potassium bath? Do they get injected with it? What-

That's the question. Okay, so there is no answer. There's no answer except for the fact that there's this hole in it and a burn mark on the inside. It's like, how do they get a burn mark on the inside? None of it really makes sense. And then, right, so this actually raises the question of what instruments are they using to get large volumes of potassium into a cow to kill it? It doesn't make any sense. We go all the way back to Linda Moulton Howe where she got investigators to look into it.

They revealed something as well, a decade earlier. ...hole in center of skull, approximately two millimeters in diameter on the surface of the skull and one millimeter in diameter on the inside of the skull. No evidence of gunshot. Cause of death, possible injection of material into brain with unknown object. Lab analysis found nothing.

Who's going around and can fire a very small needle, as you heard there, two millimeters on the outside, one millimeter on the inside, to inject a substance into the brain of a cow to kill it? What instrument can do that? There's no instrument that we know of that can do that from a distance. So what? Is this another advanced piece of technology that they have? Is this connected?

No one knows, but this is fitting this modus operandi of what appears to be occurring with these things. This is 10 years before, 15 years before, the same thing is happening in New Mexico in that new case. So you've got people like John Paternoster, and he is a chief investigator back in Teos or in New Mexico, and he was looking into this case, and he found something very unusual. The Arroyo Seco scene did yield some very curious marks

in the soil, in the land, around the animal that did not appear to be natural in origin. As the team skinned the animal, they noticed that the tissue on its back was blood red, showing signs of massive hemorrhaging. Hemorrhaging that could only have been caused by a fatal blow from above. From above? From above.

It's like something has either lifted it up, like the clamping, or something has hit it with a force from above and behind. What? Is this a UFO chasing a cow in a field? Or is it a helicopter? You could bonk a cow from behind. Well, but from above? Is it a hammer? Yeah, because you're coming over the top. But to leave a three-foot injury to its back...

It's no human racing after these things. And again, no tracks. But there was some trace evidence that was left behind. And what spiked my attention was the strange holes that were found in the ground. Once again, we go back 15 years into the past, maybe a little bit more. You've got people like Manuel Gomez, who spoke to Linda Moulton Howe, who saw something very similar decades before. The strange thing about it is that we have never found any blood on them.

No blood? No blood, no. Tracks? The only tracks that we found on the first one were some tripod tracks and they formed something like a triangle. I didn't know what to think. It was kind of strange because we had never seen anything like that before. Tripod tracks forming a triangle that I felt like, as he says it, I've never seen that before.

That's right. You've got a weird cattle mutilation going on in your property. Your charge is to protect your animals. And of course, you're going to be looking around to seeing what's happening. What's with these tripod marks? He wasn't the only guy reporting it. You've got Tex Graves.

who reported the same thing in a different cattle mutilation case. One other place in 1976 north of town on a very hard pasture, almost like hard brick. We found tripod marks 12 inches across. The tripod marks were 14 feet apart. We found one set that had gone in the ground roughly eight inches.

And it would take a good post hole digger or shovel to dig in like this. It indicated something very heavy had set down in this area, yet there was no tracks leading from it nor to it. Almost nightly when this was going on,

Sound effects.

So this is a former sheriff.

Who's describing this? Yes, I am sorry about the sound effects there. It's a little bit jarring. But essentially what he was describing is that they witnessed, they captured on film some type of mothership craft that

I don't know what it is. I'm not saying it's an alien craft, but some type of mothership craft with some type of- You can't say it's an alien craft because you've already set out on the path of saying this is not aliens. Well, I don't know. Even though you're showing what is most likely aliens. Maybe. Maybe. Or is it all part of some greater show to distract people, for people to go to

it's aliens when it's not. Like, it's a great deception. So far, you haven't shown me anything that's convinced me that this is not something non-human. No, I haven't. You're absolutely right. In fact, it's actually the opposite. Everything you're showing me is very convincingly non-human because that technology didn't exist in the 1970s. Oh, yes, it did. Even from the military. Oh, yes, it did. Just stay with me. So let's go back to...

the work from Manuel Archuleta, so his case where the cow seemingly was picked up, they did check the scene and they found that there was some type of trace evidence in the cow pats. Is this number 10? In the manure, yeah, number 10 please. In the cow pats. Yeah.

We were speculating that maybe something had flown over the field and had lifted these pies and flipped them over like a helicopter or something like that. It was just really bizarre. As we started to work the crime scene,

We determined that there was actually a pattern. It looked like there was a corridor of these pies that had been turned over. So something with a downward thrust force, like a wind, has ducked down and has blown a channel

the pasture of the cowpats, throwing them apart as if something had come down and had flown over the top. Cowpats are the key to unlocking the entire mystery. The answer to cattle mutilations is cowpats. You look at the poop, that's where the answer is. No, I just thought that- Was he in the video? Was he like-

This cowpat's been turned over. I certainly hope not. By helicopter. This is from a really great documentary called The Cattle Files. This came out in 1997. I'll link to the full one. It's on YouTube. It's really, really well done. Definitely underrated in describing what's going on here. But right, before I start, because I don't want to give the coup de grace away just yet as to why I think- Before you bamboozle us with the indisputable evidence. Overwhelming evidence.

That will say that maybe it's not all aliens. I want to go to this little outlying case. So this is of Larry. So Larry is a hunter and he didn't see any craft, but he did see the use of advanced technology in a mutilation.

On September 13th 1994, Larry Gardea, a New Mexico carpenter, was out bear hunting when he heard a terrifying high-pitched noise coming from the trees. The noise had sent a herd of cattle into a stampede. Everything happened so quick. When I heard that noise, then all of a sudden I heard the cows that had passed and I turned around and I saw them all running the opposite direction.

As they ran past him, he said he turned to see two mutilated animals on the ground. Larry said a third cow was screaming in pain as it was being dragged several feet off the ground into some trees. Larry raised his rifle and fired in its direction.

And I kept looking at it and I kept seeing that it was trying to get back on its feet. It was floating. There's an unseen force that's pulling it. Like a tractor beam. Does he hear a ding? No. But listen to this noise in the background, right? This annoying... Listen to what he says. 20 feet further in front of the first shot and that's when the noise stopped.

So this noise, because I just thought that was, at first when I heard it, just bad special effects. No, that's a noise that he heard. Yeah, obviously it's a special effect in the documentary, but they're showing that's what he was hearing. Yeah, what he was hearing as this weird, invisible tractor beam-like force was trying to pull a cow into the woods or into the trees. But-

Again. Where? No, but he didn't see any craft. He didn't see any helicopters. He didn't see any craft. Again, this puts it all into column of non-human forces. Unseen invisible tractor beam. 1970s military technology.

Yeah, but 1970s military- It's like Piquan. Hidden 1970s military technology, which was probably first discovered in the Second World War, but just at the end of the Second World War, whether it was through Operation Paperclip or it was through their own development in the US, that technology was highly advanced. It was such a breakthrough in our understanding of physics and the manipulation of the fabric of our reality that it's been kept so hidden, but utilized for very important purposes.

purposes. And one of those important purposes is not alarming the public about a grave mistake that we have made back at the end of the second one. Which you're going to explain by the end of this episode. That's right. I will explain by the end of this episode. I'm here. I'm ready. I might put it in the plus extension. No, I won't do that. But let's actually, I'm pleased that you're saying this, right? Because let's talk about

of the people, like some people that appear to be highly credible that have had these experiences that claim that no, it's not the military. It's definitely aliens. Before we do that though, just Gabe Valdez, Gabe Valdez, I'm sorry, has been involved in investigating this stuff for a long time. He came down to it being two possibilities and it just reinforces where I'm going to head next. Just play this for me, please. Valdez has been investigating cattle mutilation since 1976.

Yeah. Yep, he's right. So what's left?

Either government or extraterrestrial. He's right. You know, she asks Linda Moulton Howell, what's left? Well, it's either the government or extraterrestrials. And I'm leaning towards what is actually, let's be honest, like without being sensationalist and being more logical about this. Extraterrestrials. Government.

It's more like- Why? Okay, I'll get to that, right? But before we get to that, let's talk about Pat McGuire and his experience. Pat McGuire ends up speaking to Dr. Leo Sprinkle, who is a psychologist, I believe, or a researcher from the University of Wyoming. We've covered some of these books, you know, very-

I guess, astute researcher. He ended up speaking to Pat McGuire. This is Pat McGuire describing what he saw and an audio from a regression that he underwent. In September 1976, on a ridge about two miles from his trailer house, Mr. McGuire, his brother, and his cousin, Mark Murphy, found two mutilated cows.

the following hypnosis session with dr leo sprinkle director of counseling and testing at the university of wyoming and laramie is pat mcguire's effort to recall more details about an extraordinary incident that happened to him at the time of the mutilations come upon a cow that was dead they cut the nose off tongue was out the sex organs were gone okay pat you're doing fine i'd like to have you now turn your attention to

the evening that you and Mark were looking at that craft, you were looking through the scope. I says, "Mark," I said, "Let's get the hell out of here." I said, "That star is coming." I says, "Change from a pure white to an orange." I says, "Mark, it's picking up a cow."

And it seems to be hovering there over the ridge. Right, hovering. Picking up the cow. Can you see the cow? No. But you can hear the cow? Right. Terrible. Terrible. Balling? Terrible. Worse than I ever heard a cow. Weird. It is weird. And it's weird for a number of reasons. Because he's quite, like, you get the sense of, like, no, it's extraterrestrial, right? He doesn't see it pick up the cow. He doesn't see it. He's just saying, oh, he can just hear it, right? But later on, and this is in the next video...

He draws what he sees. So I'm like- Why does he have to be hypnotically regressed? That's a good question. To recall this information? Why don't they just ask him what he saw? Exactly. So I'm like, why are you being regressed? I'm feeling, and I'm absolutely not accusing Leo Sprinkle of being anything like other researchers in the field, but hypnosis is a dangerous, in the sense of, is it the imagination or are you recalling actually information? Because after the hypnosis-

Then he describes this. Wait, before I play this, do you actually know the answer to that question? No, I don't. Okay. Well, for me, that implies that there's more... Something else. ...strangers involved. Like, he didn't remember...

There's some reason for him to believe that he can't recall everything that happened. Which again is in column A, extraterrestrials. Right. And then that's potential, what's going on. But also it could be column B, the government has technologies that can like person, you know, for example, you can fire some type of field at someone, it affects their temporal lobe. Bingo. There goes, you know, the perception. So this is afterwards. Now I want, I don't know, right? What he describes next is,

Because he said he didn't see it in that regression. He didn't see it. Next, he goes on to describe, while he's not in a regression, what he saw. Is it 14 you want me to play? Yes, please. I've drawn a picture of the spacecraft, what I seen that night. And the ridge was 300 feet and the tip stuck above the ridge. And that would give you a size of a football field.

And as it proceeded down from the sky, it was a pure white with, of course, the flashing red and yellow and blue lights. And then it turned to a 4S orange, the whole ship did. And it stays this color. And, of course, it'll glow the whole area up right around where the cow was. It's a classic disc for those listening to the audio. Deep red, and that's where you could hear that cow beller.

So what is it? Flying saucer. No, no, but in that regression, he's not describing seeing a giant crab. I know I've edited that audio in that video. Well, he's saying he can't see anything, which again is in line with the capabilities of these craft. They can cloak and go invisible. Sure, but then after his regression, all of a sudden he can just, like as you and I are talking right now, go, oh, here's a picture of this giant. But isn't he describing a different part of the night? Like he's saying that later...

No, he's describing what happened. So he's drawing it after the regression or before? I don't know. It must be after. Yeah. So I'm like, are you actually recalling what you saw or are you recalling what came up in the regression? Yeah.

He's drawing a nice picture for Leo Sprinkle. Yeah, well, that's what I'm like. And I'm not saying he's lying. I don't think he's lying. I believe that he believes what he's saying, right? But is what he's saying, is what he's recalling, is that actually what took place or is it something else? Now, to be fair to him, he did say something that grabbed my attention. The next video is of Stuart Graham. He's from Lismore. This was from a terrible VHS copy. Is this Australia? This is Australia. This is from Lismore. This is in northern New South Wales, I believe.

But this is a steward who was a cattle station manager. He was having mutilations take place on his property that he was managing, but he saw something very similar to Pat McGuire. Stuart Graham lives north of Lismore. He remembers when the local farmers were on the point of setting up vigilante groups to protect their cattle. But what killed these cows? How did they do it?

Well, I just can't answer that one. There was no bullet wound? No bullet wound whatsoever. As I sit here and think, I did not see a lot of blood. Stuart Graham told us how 20 years ago he had an encounter with something in the sky. A big circular sort of thing. It just sat floating. No noise. Like a big kind of a soft, bluey, greeny, soft light.

And around the centre it appeared to me as though there was a row of smaller lights. So this would have been around the same time as what Pat McGuire was describing, seeing some type of saucer-shaped craft with lights around the outer rim.

But this is in Australia. This is on the opposite side of the world. And you've got catebutylations and this weird craft being associated with it. Are you aware of what argument you're trying to make here? Because everything you're presenting is in the aliens' column. I very much, yes. It's like you're debating this issue, but you're arguing for the wrong side. No, I think what's occurring here, right, is that I think that, as I highlighted,

there is a program going on and it has gotten the attention of extraterrestrials, right? Because extraterrestrials, they have their own agenda, which we don't know what that is. Sure. But where it might become apparent to us comes about from Judy Doherty. So Judy is also regressed by Leo Sprinkle. So maybe, you know, that creates a contamination perhaps because of him doing his regression with Pat. Did she draw an ice picture for him? She did. Which will come up, right? Yeah, she did. But...

What with Judy, right? So she was driving home one evening, and I'll let her describe what she witnessed when she was driving home. On a clear moonlit night in May 1973, Judy was driving back from a bingo game in Houston, Texas. She and her mother, daughter Cindy, and brother and sister-in-law watched a strange bright light hover in the sky. After that night, she suffered terrible headaches and anxiety. It's like a spotlight.

It's shining down on the back of my car and it's like it has substance to it. I can see an animal being taken up in this. I can see it squirming. It's taken into some sort of chamber. It's done very quickly and then I can see the calf being lowered. It's like it's being dropped back down.

You see the animal being cut up? Yes. How is it being cut up? How? Instruments of some kind. There's needles in it, or what appears to be like needles that may be probes, I don't know. But it has a tube connected to it. So she's being abducted, and she's witnessing this while she's on the craft? Is she on the craft, though? Play number, play number, the next one. 17. 17, please. I was able to see what was going on in the craft.

It's a grey. Is this a Black Ops laser pack guy or is it a grey alien? Keep going. They were very snappy about their movements and they knew exactly what they were doing and I felt...

Oh, classic. They're our saviors. They've been here for quite some time and they test the soil as well as our water, as well as our animal life, our vegetation.

What am I missing here? Okay. So first of all, she is describing something that you hear in other abduction cases, right? Because when that first part is like, well, is she aboard the craft or is she not? But then later on in the regression, you get this out-of-body abduction scenario where she is standing next to the craft. Very common to be consciously in two places at once. Right. But can you induce that with some type of electromagnetic field?

Can you induce that into people? Is there some type of technology that allows... Now, this is the other thing, right? So the greys or the aliens, they're saying to her, we need to do this. We have to help you. We're here to do it. Now, look, I think she's being genuine as well. And the reason for... I've got a very short clip. Just play number 18 because just before you play it, Ben, Sprinkle asks her because she sees a daughter taken aboard as well. And she flips out because she thinks her daughter is about to be cut up as well. Oh.

Alien hate leak, boys. Oh, yeah. Let's go. Let's see how she brings... But this, it just adds to the confusion for me because I'm like...

Were you actually out of body though? But then she describes the beam, right? Where she said the light had a substance to it. Again, another sci-fi technology. This is all alien. This is all alien. It's all consistent with alien abductions. I'll get there. Okay. I'll get there. And then of course, you got this silence though, that comes up with this stuff. It's like,

One thing I'll say about Judy, though, is like, would it not make sense? Like, why put on this big charade? Like, why do this theatrical kind of thing of where you, if you were humans, right? If it is, let's say it is some type of government agency that's doing that, why would they get someone and kind of create this whole scenario? Why would you abduct anyone in the first place? Because you're wanting them to spread this narrative. You're wanting them to spread the whole, it's aliens, it's aliens. What about Stephen Greer?

Stephen Greer thinks they're all aliens, right? No, Stephen Greer says any negative alien experience is exactly what you're saying, which is some kind of government psyop. No, no, let's not be black and white about this. I really have to emphasize this. Again, it's like I'm not saying that all bad experiences people have were

with aliens, aliens or anything like that are not aliens or that it's just the government pretending. I'm not saying that that's happening at all. I just believe that there is a subsection of the cattle mutilation phenomenon, which is actually very simple. And a lot of us are getting carried away and overthinking it and going, oh, it's aliens for a very deliberate purpose. Well, I'm just waiting for you to show some of that evidence.

Because everything you've shown me is alien. Well, I'm going to reinforce that now. I'm going to reinforce that with Bill Waugh. So Bill Waugh, and this is what happens, right? What's crazy, and we go back to the Netflix documentary right at the start, half a mile from that rancher's home, this took place and he heard nothing, right? Go back to Bill Waugh. He described something very similar. Number 19, please, Ben. One man looked out of his window at night just before he went to bed and a horse was standing out there.

He got up the next morning, sat down to breakfast, and happened to glance out, and the horse had been mutilated. Right there was in the summertime, they had three, they had a house and two trailers where people lived in, and they all had their windows open. They had dogs around the place. No one heard any dogs barking. No one heard a thing. And that was right up by the house.

So this underlines this high strangeness of it. This is with a bunch of trailers and homes. There's a horse basically in the middle, as you heard there, nothing. No one heard anything. But then if it was aliens, yeah.

What's the difference to it being a silent helicopter? Like, why is it that no one's hearing anything? The problem with your argument is there's all this magical technology that's beyond the capabilities of humans. And whenever I bring that up, your answer is, well, this is secret technology that the government has. Yeah, it's beyond...

It's beyond what's currently publicly available. So you can always say that to anything I say, which is a trend of alien encounters, which we've discussed for 17 years. Anytime I bring that up, you can go, well, the military has this secret technology. You see how it's... Yeah, I see. But that's a trap that you can fall into, right? I'm not saying that.

So don't put words in my mouth in that sense, because I'm not going to say that every single one of those is that, well, it's like, well, of course there's this technology. But you're just implying it. You're just like, or is it? Okay, so play- Because everything you say sounds like alien technology, which we've heard a thousand times before in thousands of thousands of reports. And when I point that out, you go, well, is it? Is it? I'm waiting for the, or is it? We're getting there. Play me Richard Sauter, right? Because I agree. I know Richard Sauter is a controversial figure in the field. The underground bassist guy. Yeah, but I agree with him on this.

When there is an earthly phenomenon such as cattle mutilations, albeit a very mysterious earthly phenomenon, it only makes sense to look for an earthly cause or an earthly explanation. Bingo! He's absolutely right, okay? So this is the thing. Let's go back to Judy, because Judy is there apparently being abducted by greys with the weird music going, and she's like,

Hang on a second. If you've got all of this power and all of this ability to abduct me out of my car, why don't you just, and you're helping us, why don't you just do it publicly? Like, why do you have to do this? They get pissed off at her. Play it. I question whether, why they aren't saying more and why they can't stop it if they're so knowledgeable and they get angry.

I mean, this is because they're demonic evil liars. We've established that. But if you're a demonic evil liar, why would you get angry at someone asking you a very simple question? Like, why would you... See, I'm like, this anger that's involved, this passion, unless it's not like whoever's perpetrating this feels like whatever the subterfuge or the theatrics that they're doing is not working on her. And they're frustrated, which is a human trait, right? So then we go back to Linda, right?

Linda Moulton Howe, the OG of cattle mutilation research. She's spoken to a lot of people on the ground. A lot of people on the ground, right? Guess what? Almost every single case has involved with it. Play it. Descriptions of dark and silent helicopters as well as unidentified bright lights came up in almost every conversation about the cattle mutilation mystery.

So I'm going to do the same thing that you've been doing all show. I'm going to say to you, well, what if that's an alien black helicopter? You think aliens can't replicate black helicopters? You're right.

And he saw black helicopters. And in his transcripts. So a guy from his imagination pulled. Well, this was followed up over 10 years later in a random exercise at the, was it the Stargate program run by the army? Yeah. Kit Green tasked his top remote viewers unknowingly to look at the same locations. And what did they see? They started to describe the same things, including the black helicopters. But they noted that the helicopters weren't necessarily human.

just because they're helicopters doesn't mean that they're human helicopters. And we've seen this in the reports we've covered over the years in that men in black, shitheads,

show up in human-looking cars. So the idea that aliens have all this advanced technology but they can't make a helicopter, that's crazy. Well, not only can they make a helicopter, they can make a helicopter that's, if it is aliens, right? They can make a helicopter that's silent. So we go to Lou... Well, the other... Sorry to butt in, but the other argument with the helicopters is, yes,

There's a certain faction of the military industrial complex or whatever that is aware of what's going on. And whenever there is a cattle mutilation, they're checking it out. They're investigating. So hang on a second. Okay. So you're saying that there is some clandestine human agency that has enough technology to be able to monitor the immediate aftermath of a cattle mutilation to show up at a site that

In a black helicopter to survey a site but do nothing. We've heard this from the whistleblowers. We've heard this from Grosh that they can be on the scene within moments of a sighting. How do they have that technology? Well, I don't know.

I don't know how they have that side, but that's what's being claimed. Wouldn't it make more sense that the reason why the helicopter is there is because they're involved as opposed to like they've got such advanced technology that they're monitoring incoming aircraft? Sure. There might be some cases where, like I pointed out from Kelleher's work, there seems to be like you played a case where it's a helicopter literally going and lowering down a crane and clamping something up. There's obviously those cases out there.

But, I mean, what you've shown so far, I'm just saying the fact that there's a black helicopter there doesn't automatically mean that this is some conventional human force that's behind this. Sure. Because everything else you've described and mentioned smacks of non-human forces. And it smacks of the trend that we see from other phenomena that is associated with non-human forces. Sure. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

But investigators on the ground have found other things. So play, this is number 23, Ben. This is Lou Garoto. I realized actually just before we started recording that I put the wrong name in. So his name is not Lou Colorado. His name is Lou Garoto, but he's from Colorado. He's been investigating these things within, I think it was the attorney's, what's it called? The attorney's office. And he discovered the helicopters were involved. Another interesting fact, a few days after

We usually see the report from a woman who lived in the area of a real dark colored helicopter with a sling attached underneath. Yeah, this one. Yeah. Where the mutilations had taken place where the bodies of the carcasses of the animals were found. And that's not the only time a helicopter had been reported prior to or immediately after the mutilation. There seemed to be in the area one time or another.

None of these choppers had been identified, no identifying marks. All the reports come in that the choppers were silent. And I have never heard of a silent helicopter. They were always making some type of noise. But these reports were that there was no noise. I mean, I guess you could argue that this is some kind of, you know, classified technology, that there's some kind of stealth helicopter that was flying around in the 1970s. Maybe. Maybe.

But it also, you could easily apply that to my argument, which is these helicopters aren't necessarily human. Sure. And look, I've left this until the very end, which we'll get into in just a few moments. I feel like you've got something up your sleeve that you're going to plant on me right at the end and I'm going to look like an idiot. No, I'm not.

trying to make you look like an idiot at all because as I pointed out like once again I'll reinforce this I'm not saying this is the answer for all of it but I think this actually covers a large amount of it right because it is actually a human activity that's taking place and it's so dreadful like it's just so truly dreadful for what humanity has done to itself that it's

it's like, let's say that it's aliens. But you've got people like Chris O'Brien, right? So just play the next one. He's saying, yes, helicopters come up a lot. I've had a number of reports. People have been within feet of helicopters. Feet. They're hovering just over the individual. And they're blasted by the downdraft from the rotors, but there's no engine sound. Nothing. So they feel the force. The downdraft. I mean, that no sound...

That, again, reeks of UFO phenomenon. It does. Because they seem to have this control over the dimensional field of the area. Right. This doesn't, to me, sound like some kind of secret human force unless they've cracked that technology as well. Why? Right? It's a helicopter. Why are you feeling a downwards force of wind? Because it's a conventional helicopter.

So what, aliens have just made conventional silent helicopters to fly around Earth? You think they wouldn't be capable of doing that? Well, I mean, they would be capable of it. It's a very easy way to blend in. Hang on. They treat this with such disdain, right? They've got such a...

And disdain actually isn't quite... There is a disdain, but they also treat it with such a... I don't know. They have a levity about it. It's almost like they just don't care. They don't care if they're seen. So it's like if they don't care that they're seen... That's not entirely true because the bulk of the activity is done under the cover of darkness. That is true. It is like this weird...

Well, the contradiction, because it's done under the cover of darkness. Their true intentions aren't revealed. Everything's done in secrecy. Yet they dump the carcass just back on the ground. Yeah, exactly. And I think the bottom line is, like, again, this is more in line with my argument that

In that they don't think like human beings because it's not human beings doing it. But then why would you go to the effort of like you dump a carcass out and you do this under darkness, but then you would go to the effort of creating a helicopter that has the effect of downwind? Yeah, because they're not motivated by the same human logic. They have alien logic. But then, yeah, like why would they, I mean, maybe that's,

Maybe that is the argument for it. But why would you bother doing that? Like, why not just use a saucer? Yeah, I don't know. It does seem pretty dumb. Why not use a saucer? I agree with you. It is pretty dumb. Which other people are saying. If you can go invisible with your flying saucers, just use those. Yeah. And just steal the cattle. Right. No, we heard the argument for this, though. And I think this was brought up in Kellerher's book.

This was more in line with the argument that it's a conventional human force doing it. And the reason that they returned the carcass is because then it's not a cattle theft. Once it's a theft, it has to be reported, investigated. It's like a whole new level of law enforcement involved, right? That's the argument. If it's just a mutilated animal, then you can just say it's predators...

It just can be ruled out as natural. That's right, and it doesn't trigger greater investigation. Right. But there's still, obviously, the huge loss to the rancher. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. But they know that this is going to create problems for the rancher as well, so they're more reluctant to report it. So then we come to, we know that these helicopters exist. Bring up 25 for me, please. This is the cutting edge of military technology, quiet helicopters. They use a no-tail rotor system, or no-tail for short.

They're designed to fly covert missions into sensitive areas without being detected. These helicopters are based at Kirtland Air Force Base, just a half hour's flight from Taos. Two of America's top secret research facilities are also based there: Sandia National Laboratory and the Phillips Laboratory, which has developed the Laser Medical Pack.

Wait a second. The laser medical pack. Wait a second. There it is. So half an hour from where there's been a lot of cattle mutilations with weird helicopters showing up, you have a major Air Force base with three-letter agencies and strange tech labs, including the Phillips Lab, that developed laser cutting technology. Within half an hour of where these cattle mutilations are taking place. What a coincidence. What a weird coincidence. Right? Right.

Let me just say one thing. Let me just say this stealth helicopter. It's not silent when you're standing a few feet from it. That's like saying when you put a silencer on a gun that you can't hear it at all. That's just nonsense. Like it's just, yeah, it's diminished sound.

it's not that's what stealth means it doesn't mean that you can't hear it at all which is what the eyewitnesses describe that's true so it's a little bit well i mean but again stretch the no tie and i'm really really pleased you said that because you're totally right you can still hear but that's just again what has gotten into the public realm what what is in the like since then like what's been developed since then that can create no sound right but then we've got nick cook so this is what i was saying before play what nick cook believes

If they have broken through that barrier, they'll want to keep quiet about it. And if it's as radical as some people speculate, then they would want to keep quiet about it, not just for a number of years, but for decades, possibly up to 100 years.

Secret laser packs for 100 years. Well, the secret laser packs got out and the producers from the Cattle Files dug a little bit deeper. They worked with John Pattenoster. And John Pattenoster, again, he's another chief investigator with the attorney's office. He found out that, yeah, there is something going on with, he doesn't go into any great detail, but he says there is some type of military tech which is being used. Play 27 for me, please, Ben. Yeah.

aware that certain of the military installations in New Mexico have technology that could very well have caused these kinds of injuries. I've discovered in recent years that the United States Air Force has such a device which they developed in-house, a field-capable, portable belt pack surgical laser that is powered by dry cell batteries.

We've managed to obtain this footage of the laser pack from one of the United States' most secure research facilities. This laser would be... Got leaked out. ...and remove organs in the field. The same technology was used to create this self-contained laser. The laser would be used by a surgeon in the battlefield to do laser surgery.

So look, it's very small, right? I mean, that's just a promo video for some contractor trying to get a military contract. That's not a real functioning thing. No,

It's one of the technologies that they have worked on, though. No, it's not. That's just like a promo video. Yeah, but what I'm saying, this is a technology which has been utilized and developed at Phillips at Kirtland Air Force Base. They're developing medical lasers at Kirtland Air Force Base, 30 minutes away from where laser-like catameter relations were taking place. So I'm like, okay. This does... Okay, so, all right. Let's just...

Hypothesize for me, right? If I look up portable laser systems. I'll do it. Yeah, do it. That's the smallest thing that comes up. Oh, but that's- This giant box. Right. Yeah, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about smaller ones, but then can be mounted upon helicopters. Don't they use laser in surgery already conventionally? Yes. Yep. Absolutely. For decades. Right. Yeah, decades. And that's the thing. These cuts- Do you know how big the machines are? Huge. Okay.

Okay. Yeah, absolutely huge. This is something that in A Strange Harvest, Linda Moulton Howell actually goes and speaks to laser surgeons and describes this, but the cuts are consistent, right? It seems to be a laser. Now, you have outlying cases where it's like, I can't recall who it was, but they looked at the tissue, like microscopically looked at the tissue, and they found that the cut had actually been between the cells. So it didn't even go through the cells. So that's like the outlying kind of stuff. But it's like, okay.

Why would Kirtland Air Force Base, with apparently three-letter agencies that are connected to this base, why would they be conducting these weird catamutilations out of there? In this particular documentary, it's like some people have said that this is where these organs are going. This is where these related tissues are going. Why there? Why did that base? Is it prions? Is it something else?

Play number 28. Okay, this is his trump card. He's been leading up to number 28. Oh, this isn't my trump card. My trump card is 29 and 30. On these notes, it just says 28. It's got a big red circle around it. No, it's 29 and 30. All right. In the 1940s, the atomic bomb which ended World War II was tested near Almagordo, New Mexico, at what became known as the Trinity Test Site. The fallout from this blast spread over much of the American Southwest.

For the next 50 years, an estimated 1,000 kilotons of radioactive dust fell on New Mexico, Nevada and Colorado.

It's reported that many innocent civilians were contaminated, although this allegedly remains one of America's most closely guarded secrets. Oh, so they're not looking for prions, they're looking for radiation traces. A thousand kilotons of radioactive contamination has just coincidentally fallen over the hot zones of cattle mutilation sites. Why do you need to...

mutilate cattle to discover radiation. Don't you just go out with a counter and detect it? You're right. So if you're a rancher, what are you going to do if a bunch of people from the military or the government show up and they've got a Geiger counter and they're going out and checking, taking samples, which they have to also kill your animals from.

What are you going to do? Call Linda Moulton Howe? You're going to call Linda Moulton Howe? Preferably from the 1970s in a low-cut dress. Look, even from now in a low-cut dress. I'm not being too precious about this bit, all right? But really, this starts to make sense. This is actually what's very logical about this. Guess where else there are similar catamulations? The UK and Australia.

Australia, during the 1950s, had numerous above-ground nuclear tests. Yeah, but they're in the middle of the desert. They're nowhere near any cattle. Right. Well, guess what happens? Cattle mutilations happen in California, but they're rare, right? California is upwind of

of the test sites. All these locations where these cattle mutilations in hot zones are taking place are all in the downwind area. Now, what happens with radiation, right? Radiation, you need to check. So you need to go and get tissue. You need to pull out this. This is why they're pulling out the rectum. This is why they're pulling out the tongues. This is why they're pulling out the eyes. This is where this radioactive contaminants are going to be most prominent and able to be analyzed, right?

On top of that, these particular locations that they have this activity going on, there's also uranium mines. There's also, they need to know what's going on with that contamination. And guess what? The testing, right, is consistent with the catamulation flaps. So 1970s, there was like, which is roughly 20 to 30 years after, well, not really like the initial test started. When were the nuclear tests like 1950s? Oh, into the 60s.

So 50s, 60s. 60s and maybe 70s. And then within that 10 year period, they magically developed all this like tractor beam technology. Oh, no, no, no. Laser packs, silent helicopters. Well, that's part of the Second World War, right? That's part of paperclip and the Second World War. So they had all that technology, but they still built the bomb. This is after the Second World War, right? So,

So this is, yeah, they had to use the bomb to stop that, right? But this is afterwards. When did they develop all the secret tractor beams? Well, I don't know, but think about it, right? Was it the Nazis? Was it all project paper? Maybe it was the Nazis, right? Think about it. They were all focused on the war effort. That's the primary focus, right? It was only afterwards where they had the time and the resources to go, okay, we don't have a war front anymore. We're not having to worry about war bonds and funding anymore. Where can we divert this funding? We could divert this funding into a big mistake we made by,

raining down a thousand kilotons of radioactive contamination upon the United States. Like how foolish to test nuclear weapons and

on American soil. And guess what? Every 10 to 15 years, that's when you go and check the samples or you go and collect samples to see how that radiation contamination is spreading. Where are you going to find it? You're going to find it in the cattle populations, right? Then it gets even more crazy. Let's bring back Souda, who has been looking at these particular sites in the hotspots of this cattle mutilation activity. This is it. This is the trump card.

Get ready. Number 29 is it. No, 30 is it. ...region of North America is downwind from the nuclear test site in Nevada, where hundreds of nuclear blasts were detonated in past decades. Number two, there have been in past years and are still to the present a few active uranium mines with large piles of uranium tailings, radioactive tailings, both in Colorado and in New Mexico.

Thirdly, there have been actual nuclear detonations both in Colorado and in New Mexico in past decades. And fourthly, here in northern New Mexico there are two major nuclear research and design laboratories. So we certainly know that there has been radioactive contamination.

So look at this map, right? Apparently, you are no longer allowed to do this type of invasive radioactive tracking or testing. I don't know why. I don't know why that was, but this will come up in this next video, right? So if you can't do it publicly, what do you do? You do it secretly. And look at this map, and then let's look at the cattle mutilations in that area. Play number 30, please, Ben. This is the trump card.

potential sources of nuclear contamination such as the Nevada test site and I started looking at that area where that contamination spread which is documented and that is virtually the same area that we're looking at for the cattle mutilations in North America so it's almost an identical matchup. We need that research we need it but we can't do it legally so what do we do go without it? No. Theory of crime contradiction says you do it illegally you do it clandestinely.

One can't help but wonder if somebody is interested in monitoring the effect of those above-ground tests, for instance. Why are there no mutilations, virtually none, in California, which is upwind of the test site? Yeah, it's an interesting argument. It's kind of like, I can see why you found it convincing. It's very similar to Colm Kelleher's argument, except it's not prions. It's not prions. It's something very simple. It's radiation. It's radiation. It's radiation contamination. And it's not like...

I mean, prions in itself already are a contaminant problem, which are very difficult to contain. However, we know that we can contain it. Radiation, on the other hand, is something that can quite easily seep out. It gets into the groundwater. It spreads into our food production. And so what's also happening now, right? No one really knows the answer, but cancer rates are skyrocketing. Now, there's other things that have happened recently as well that make you go, well, maybe that's part of it. But could it also be that we stuffed up

in the 1950s and the 1960s, and I say we because the Australian government was involved as well. We did all of this above-ground testing. We let off all these nuclear weapons. And what did it do? It contaminated everything with kilotons, 1,000 kilotons of radioactive contaminants, which are destroying us. Now, I come back to your hypothesis, Ben, that it's like go back to aliens. Then I think about what happened with Judy when she was like, the aliens, even though they were irritated about the question she asked,

Could it be though that the aliens, because they want to protect their property,

They're going, oh, if we can even go even crazier and go humanity is some type of experiment or whatever's going on. They're like, you stuffed everything up. You developed nuclear weapons. You stupid apes weren't supposed to have this technology. You've contaminated everything. What do they do? They do exactly what human beings are doing and they monitor the levels inside cattle. Look, I'm more leaning towards though, I think in spite of the stories and the anecdotes of what people are describing, it makes sense that

that this is clandestinely tracking? Because if it got out that there was so much nuclear contamination, what would happen? It would spark panic. It would spark lawsuits. It could potentially bring down the US government. It's definitely an interesting idea. And yeah, again, the same kind of idea with the prions. The biggest hurdle with this argument is that the eyewitnesses are describing technology that is magical. Yes. And for your argument to work, you...

basically are relying on this assumption that the US military has developed this magical technology. Well, Nick Cook thinks they have. And yet the only time we hear of this technology being implemented by the US government, the US military, is in these cases of cattle mutilation. We don't have cases of these kinds of tractor beams and laser packs being used in any other application. Well, I disagree. Mac Maloney has written an entire book on UFOs in wartime.

So people are seeing UFOs in wartime. Are they seeing aliens monitoring a war or are they being deployed by- Yeah, but those craft aren't being used.

as effective tools of war. They're not used as weapons of war. Some circumstances they are. Oh, it's very rare. It's rare. When there's sightings of UFOs in wartime, it's like, yeah, a pilot sees something crazy that's obviously not German or whatever. Then they're thinking that's something else. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about this for your argument to work,

Which it does. There's laser packs. There's levitating vehicles. There's vehicles that can vanish. They make no sound. They have these weird stealth capabilities. Let me ask you this. They've got tractor beams. Okay. And yet, the only time that the human forces have used these is around the world with cattle mutilation cases. I just...

It's a little bit of a stretch. Well, let me ask you, though. Do you think that human beings could have developed these technologies? No. You don't think that human beings could? No. The reason I think that is because when you hear this, when you hear about, for example, these exotic technologies that have crashed, and we've heard this from Grosh and other whistleblowers, we've heard this time and time again, that they can't work it out. Mm-hmm.

They can't figure out these technologies. Part of the reason for this is that the technologies that are supposedly alien require a mind connection to the machines to function. And human beings haven't been able to reverse engineer it because we don't have those capabilities. Yes, but we're talking about

very advanced stuff, right? And the stuff that I'm describing, which has been described in these documentaries, it's not that advanced. Yet, lasers that you can fire from silent helicopters is absolutely be able to be created by human tractor beams. Probably highly likely that we could create those technologies. Sure, okay. Well, yeah, you might be right. I'll give you that. But the other thing that you need to consider is that these eyewitnesses are describing aliens.

So does that mean that Leo Sprinkle is some kind of government asset? I don't know. He's planting these ideas in people? Why would you go to such a ridiculous, elaborate scam to cover this up? Because I don't think it's a scam, in that sense. I don't think that Leo Sprinkle is a scam. I think that there's a possibility here, however, that...

The narrative, right, builds up. It's kind of like the... I shouldn't equate it to the super soldier stuff, but people believe this stuff, even though they haven't genuinely experienced it, they believe it. Is it not possible that these people have gotten... had some weird experience of some kind and the narrative that has been built up around it just comes flowing out when you use regression? I think the key to a lot of this is...

The fact that cattle mutilations have been around for a lot longer than we realize. That is true. Like if you- Well, I pointed out going back to the time of King James, I think, or 1606 or something. Yeah, I mean, you can go back into the fae folklore as well, and there's stories of cattle being messed with and horses going missing and being chopped up. So-

I mean, then that kind of rules out the idea of this human technology because we're going back hundreds of years. Well, I don't think it does though, right? Because it could also be that, yes, it absolutely goes back hundreds of years. King James had a black ops tele... No, no, no, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is, yeah, that absolutely could go back. And I'm not saying, again, that this is reinforcing all of it, right? But what if some bright spark boffin, I hate that term, somebody on an intelligence three-letter agency has gone...

yep, okay, we've got all this contamination. We need to track it. We need to monitor it. We need to monitor it in cattle. What's the best way to monitor it? We know we can monitor it in cattle. How do we monitor those cattle without creating a panic? Oh, there's all these stories about cattle being mutilated. That's what we'll do. And they've been inspired by whatever else is going on. And maybe it is clashing with aliens. I'm meeting you halfway now, so maybe aliens have been doing it, but aliens are like,

Well, like I said, that was the conclusion I came to last time I looked into this topic in depth was that, yes, there does seem to be two types of mutilations. There's some that seem more conventional.

And yeah, like a helicopter flying around with a sling underneath it. A sling under it. Which is a very basic technology. What concerns me though, is that this stuff is still happening now in the 2020s, like 2021. There's radiation and prions and everything all around us. Yep.

That's what I'm starting to worry. I'm like, why would aliens keep doing it? Maybe they've got a whole reason for it. Well, it's because their program, remember the abduction program, is relying on

human genetic material. Like they need the stock to be healthy. So they absolutely have a motivation to make sure that we remain healthy for whatever their purpose is. And so does the government to ensure that they're monitoring nuclear contamination because nuclear substances don't just go away. So you're not buying the prions? I thought the prion argument was really...

Really convincing. I think it's convincing as well. But I think what's happened is that's an adjunct to what originally started all this, and it was nuclear weapons. Right.

That's where it all started. And it's a very simple way, reductive way even to look at it. Look, I'm not 100% convinced, but I'm way more convinced than I thought I would be when you started. Pretty awesome effort. 30 videos. How long did it take you to clip all those videos? It's been like two days. That's amazing. And they were so low quality with some of those that I had to cut them up and run AI on them. But look, I'll link to those documentaries and those little clips in the show notes at mysteriousuniverse.org. Make sure you go and check out Linda's documentary because it is one of the best documentaries.

that, you know, addresses this stuff, even if it's a bit out there. Can you make all your segments where we just watch like a hundred clips? Because that's really fun. Yeah, I'll just find Unsolved Mysteries. We'll just go through that. I'll just cut it up and pretend it's mine. That will work. That was really fun. Well, I've got something a little bit more conventional for our show coming up in our Plus extension. We're going to look at Ellie Flippen's Conjunction World, the niece of the infamous Ingo Swann.

where she believes that there are these equalizing forces, these hidden forces. She claims that Ingo understood this, that part of these forces were human, but there was a non-human aspect to them as well. And she set out on a mission to unmask them, to understand them, to track them down. Okay. We're going to find out how she went in our plus extension coming up.

That's exclusive for our members. Make sure you head to mysteriousuniverse.org forward slash plus. Sign up today and get access to the extensions on these shows every single Friday. And of course, if you're on plus, you get an exclusive show, a concurrently running season that comes out every Tuesday as well.

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That's a wrap for this free edition of the show. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. If you're on Plus, stick around for some great stuff after the break for everyone else. We'll catch you next week.