Preparing for Worst-Case Scenarios: Choosing the Right Insurance Policy to Protect Your Income
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listeners, shown here today. And this month we were uprising, a special series we brought you last year on open enrollment. IT was such a comprehensive look at all the decisions that people have to make this time of year that we decided to run IT again. My guest was my former and now retired cohoes, liz western. So she's back sort of anyway, we hope you find this useful and enjoyable as we move through the holidays and open in romance season.

Welcome to nerd, all its smart money podcast. I'm from piles .

and i'm lz western.

And today we have the second episode of our nerdy deep dive into open enrollment that time of year. We all look forward to and we get to think about health plans, life insurance division and dental and oh, so much more.

yes. And in this week's episode, we're going deep on insurance that supposed to help you protect your income if something happens to you and you can provide for yourself or your family. In other words, you are either disabled or die.

Was nobody wants to talk about this stuff.

I know, I know, but everybody really, really needs to. Shawn, this is so incredibly important, and too many people ignore IT insurance of all kinds is meant to protect you from costs you couldn't easily pay our pocket, but too many people who need certain types of insurance just don't have IT.

and others get talking into buying policies they don't need IT, right?

absolutely. There's a reason life insurance sales people don't have, shall we say, the most positive of reputations. But that doesn't mean you should stay away from the concept altogether. Now we're not here to tell people what to do, but I think it's worth hearing the case for having some sort of financial backstop if that thing you think will never happen to you happens to you.

yes. So you mention that the main purpose of all of this is to protect income if you're unable to work.

Yes, one place where people tend to be critically under insured is their income. How would you get buy if you could no longer do your job? How would your loved ones manage if you're no longer here? Disability and life insurance can help fill the financial gaps if something bad or something worse happens to you. So today, we're gona look at all the different types of insurance that can protect your income because open enrollment is a great time to review your options.

All right, well, now i've got a dialog from double indentification unna my head. We wanted hear what youth think to listeners to share your ideas, concerns, solutions around open enrollment with us. Leave us a voice mee or a text than our hot line at nine o one seven three zero six three seven three that's nine nine one seven three zero N E R D or email a voice memo to podcast at nall 点 com。 So this, where do we start today?

We're going to start with life insurance. And our guest is fellow nerd ryan brady, who covers insurance.

Right, thanks. We're being here.

Great to be all these things.

We're have me. alright. Give us a scoop. What even is life insurance? How does that work when you're getting IT through an employer plan?

Life insurance is basically a safety net for anyone who depends on you financially, so if you die unexpectedly, ly life insurance provides money that could replace your income, pay off a mortgage, pay for kids college tuition, really any other expense you want to cover. IT can also give your love ones the funds to cover your own funeral burial costs without them having a dipping of their own savings.

And I can be a chunk of change, right?

Yeah IT could be a lot. Um I believe the current estimate for funeral and barrel costs is close to eight thousand dollars wow. So you typically you don't buy life insurance for your own benefit.

You buy IT for the benefit of others. So if you think about IT in our ability to earn income is really our greatest asset, at least from moths. So we ensure that asset through life of insurance, that way our loved ones can maintain their standard of living with hopefully minimal disruption.

Of course, there are other reasons why some people buy life insurance, like for investing or state planning purposes, but generally it's Better think of life insurance is a way to replace your income if you pass away now when IT comes to your job, most employers in the us. Offer a limited amount of life insurance for employees as part of workplace benefits. This coverage is usually what's known as basic group life insurance, and it's actually prety easy to get to update.

All you typically have to do is fill out a form and maybe meet any eligibility requirements that your company has, such as working a minimum amount of hours per week. You also need a name of beneficiaries, and that's going to be the person or I can be an ncd like a chair to whom you want to payout from your life insurance to go when you die. And you can actually name multiple beneficiaries and update beneficiaries as your life circumstances changed. So there's a lot of flexibility there.

Okay, good. Now at what point in your life do you want to start contemplating getting this kind of insurance? Should I be earlier in your career, ID career?

So ideally, you should really be thinking about getting life insurance when anyone depends on you financially. For some people, that could be kind of more in the beginning of their career, for others and may be more in the middle. But really everyone situations going to be different.

So really just depends. I'll say that for a lot of people, the need for life insurance comes up when they get married or when they start a family. And this is this a this conversation pretty well time because personally speaking, I just bought life insurance myself .

about a month ago ah and I think I .

know why yeah yeah we have a baby .

on the way yeah .

yeah song about four weeks baby Collins gonna be here so I thought, what Better time and to get life insurance, I got me thinking about IT. If I get flattened by a bus tomorrow, let's say, you know, would my, would my wife be able to pay the mortgage, pay for the groceries, pay for college expenses or something down the road, all on one income, right? And so the answer to that's probably not very easily. So I bit the ballet, you know, I wish I would. I'd done a little bit sooner, but i'm glad to have got in life insurance.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat. They don't think about IT until the first kid comes along or sometimes when they buy house and have a mortgage with somebody else and they realized you something happens to me, they wouldn't able to keep the house exactly.

That's a great point. And also the need for life insurance becomes greater as you take on more that another responsibility lie s like you mentioned, is especially if you share those responsibility lie s with somebody else. But even if you don't have any big shared responsibility, ie.

S today, you may still need to think about getting life insurance if we're planning to in the future, let's say, if you want to buy a house to start a family down the road, and that's because life insurance is generally cheaper, the Younger and healthier you are. So maybe why is a lock in a policy now still qualify for those lower rates? And of course, you could always buy more life insurance later if you end up meeting IT and just might be a bit more pricy.

Well, that thing i'll say here is that a lot of people think life insurance is expensive and sometimes IT is. But if you're relatively Young and healthy, life insurance can be surprisingly affordable. According to newbaLance analysis of life insurance rates, the average costs of a twenty year term insurance policy with a five hundred thousand dollar pay out is less than twenty box a month for a healthy thirty years.

Now we've been talking about this as a benefit of employment. Don't some employers just give you some life insurance almost whether or not you want IT? And how much is that usually? Yeah.

you're right. When IT comes a basic or bf insurance and most employers do offer as a job perk and it's usually free. So there's a good chance you already have some life insurance coverage through work if you've opted in.

And unlike many individual policies, you generally don't have to take a medical example, fill out a questionnaire you might have coverage though is usually pretty low. Uh, basic group life insurance is often cap that about one to two times your annual salary. So far, making fifty thousand dollars, you might have fifty or hundred thousand dollars of coverage.

Ryan, is that generally enough coverage? And if not, what kinds of coverage could you get maybe through supplemental insurance from your employer?

That's a good question. I'd say for some people, that may be enough, especially for your single. You don't have an independence or any big shared that obligations like a mortgage.

You know maybe group life insurance is all you need for now. But I say for a lot of people, that probably won't cut IT, that's why a lot of employers allow you to pay for more coverage through the group plan. They call this supplemental or voluntary group life insurance, and it's used to supplement or add to your basic group cover amount.

You can typically opt in for this extra coverage when you start a new job or doing open and rolling. And because supplemental coverage is based group rates, IT can be less expensive than getting your own policy, especially for older or less healthy than most of your coworkers. As far as how much of IT you can buy, I said the amount of supplemental life insurance you get varies by company, but IT generally maxed out about five hundred thousand dollars.

And when he's hey up all the life insurance you have between your basic and supplemental group policies, that may be enough for a lot of people. If you're not sure how much life insurance you need, a general rule thumb here is to buy coverage equal that ten times your annual income, but say that's a pretty crude cement and there's actually a lot that goes into figure out your life insurance needs. So i'll just give a quick plug e that, uh, nearly all actually has a really great calculate that helps people figure out how much life insurance they need. So I encourage listeners ers to try that out of their curious.

and we'll have a link to that in our show notes. Now right. And do you have to do a medical test to qualify for that extra coverage?

Yeah, sometimes you do. If you just purchase a small amount of additional coverage, you likely won't to do any sort of medical screening. But if you want to get a lot of little mental coverage, you may be asked to do a medical exam, at the very least the lot of simple health questionaire. And depending on how that goes as a chance, we actually might .

be denied coverage. okay. Now what happens to all of this if you decide to quit and go work for another company, can you take these policies?

You, yes. So that's really the big downside. All this life insurance coverage you get for work is that when you part ways of your employer, you typically part ways with your group insurance coverage too.

However, some policies may allow you to convert a group life insurance policy in individual policy when you leave your job. But the Price could go up quite a lot from there. So I wouldn't count on that as an option. And then you have to think about, you know what, if your next employer doesn't offer a group life insurance, you may end up me to buy your own policy anyways. So if you thinking his life insurance and made Better than to buy your own policy.

now is what i'd say. And you mentioned when people are older and less healthy, group insurance can be a Better deal IT sounds like the flip side of that is if you are Younger and healthier er than your average coworker, you might be able to get a Better deal on your .

own yeah that's absolutely right. Is now lets .

say you bought these policies and you're covered when you die, is there anything that can happen that could keep your loved ones from getting a payout?

Yeah there's a few things that could happen um with most life insurance policies, including supplemental group life insurance companies can actually deny a claim if you take your own life. So this suicide laws typically the last two years after getting the policy and then your claim may also be denied if your insurance company finds that you gave false information on your application or health question there as well.

So for example, if you said you don't smoke, but your insurance company later discovers you died from a smoking related illness, you can actually deny or delay the payout to you're beneficiary. Again, there's generally a two year window after getting your policy where they can do that. And insurance companies do this to reduce the risk of fraud. But the good thing is, with basic group life insurance, they typically don't have these provisions. Serious survivors should get up out regardless of how or when you die.

If you're contemplating getting your life insurance in your automatically offered, how do you decide between going for a supplement for your employer or getting outside insurance? What are the upsides and downsides of these options?

So you could truly guess i'm going to recommend at this point. But i'd say I say it's generally Better to get your own individual life insurance policy if you think you need more than your companies basic group coverage offers today. And that's because of all the reasons I kind of mention already.

Uh, an individual policy is yours, right? So lets you maintain coverage even if you change jobs. And as we mention, term life insurance is actually surprisingly affordable for a lot of people.

Not only of that, but getting your own policy gives you way more flexibility. You know, you could shop around with lots of providers and customize a policy that Better matches your needs. But with a company group life insurance policy, you generally stuck with whatever options they have available.

However, supplemental group life insurance can actually be a big benefit if you're older or have health conditions and only need life insurance for limited time. So that's the case. Then getting supplemental coverage may be your best bet.

Just remember, if you change jobs, your next employer may now offer supplemental coverage. Or if they do, they may have different options or limitations to their plan. So just keep them in mind.

alright. Well, I feel like we have a good handle on life insurance. So let's move on to another aspect of employer benefit plans.

And this one has a much grimmer r name, is called accidental death or dismemberment insurance. So how does this work and who should consider IT? yes. So accidentally .

death and dismemberment insurance often called A D and d. But not to be confused, dungeons and dragons is actually quite interesting. It's a sort hybrid life insurance and disability policy, but it's not nearly comprehensive to a place either one of those.

So A D and d has two decent parts to IT. It's got the accidental death part, which provides a payout to your love ones to be dying in accident, such as a car crash. Then there's a dismemberment part which pays you if you suffer injury that results in you losing a limb or becoming blind or paralyzed in every A, B and d policy is different and covers more or less situations.

But those are kind of the broad basics. And in terms of workplace benefits, abd is similar to basic group life insurance. You know your workplace often in is a tube for free, and IT typically has a coverage amount of one to two times your salary.

So you probably already have basic A D and d coverage, their workplace as long as you've signed up for IT. But like group life insurance plans, you maybe able to buy more A D N D coverage to your workplace. And this might be useful if you think you're proud to accidents. Like if you have a slightly risky job, uh, risky hobby, let's say.

and what would make you or your survivors and eligible for the benefit? We talked about life insurance exclusions, and I assume there are similar here.

yes. So there's some overlap there. For example, example, death and dismemberment insurance won't pay your survivors if we take your own life in other common exclusions include death or injury from drugger, alcohol abuse, criminal behavior or natural causes.

And I mentioned risky jobs and hobby is second ago. It's worth noting that some abd policies will actually exclude coverage for death resulting from certain hist careers or hobby such as working in law enforcement are going to skydiving. So if you in a journal and junky, you might run into some issues there. Another thing worth pointing out is that if you die from an accident, but not right away, your love ones actually not get any pay out at all. A B N D policies often require the death to have follow a covered accident with in a certain time frame, typically a few months.

That sounds like a lot of restrictions. Is this actually a substitute for life insurance?

yes. So let's a great point. I'd say it's Better to think of and d as a supplement to life insurance rather than a substitute.

And that's because it's very limited in what IT covers, for example, A, B, and the insurance won't cover deaf from illness or natural causes. And that's pretty significant given that the chances of dying from an illness are actually greater than the chances of dying from an accident. But if you have a for free through work, hey, that's pretty great, right? A nice bonus. I just wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket, especially if you have loved ones who depend on new financial.

Ryan, you ve given us so much great information. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us about these issues today.

Hey.

happy to help.

Is as you know, I am a planner and i'm also a slightly paranoid person. So after that conversation, i'm adding finding a supplemental life insurance policy to my I open enrollment to do list. I don't have a big family that relies on me, but if the worst happens, I want to ensure that my partner gave IT. And by extension, our pets are able to get by a little easier.

And that's because you love them and you don't want to leave them in the lurch.

That's true as the positive side of paranoia that i'm worried about how they're going to be if something happened to me. Well, another thing which should probably touch on briefly is the difference between term and whole life insurance. Term life insurance is for a specific amount of time. Ryan gave an example of a twenty year policy during your conversation, while whole life insurance is for, well, the whole of your life, and while that might sound like the Better option, whole life insurance is significantly more expensive and complicated to many financial advisers will suggest folks go for a term over hole, right?

Yes, if you do need life insurance, one of the most important things is to make sure that you have insurance agents can make whole life sound pretty awesome, but it's definitely not for everyone and the expense could tempt you to skip on coverage.

okay. So that was a great explanation of life insurance. What about disability?

This will shine. Your chances of becoming disabled are actually much higher than dying during your working years.

Wait, really, I feel my paranoia growing. really.

Today's twenty year old has a one in four chance of being disabled before retirement, which is about twice the risk of dying according to social security actually worries. Worker's compensation covers only work related illness and accidents, and a lot of disabilities aren't job related.

But what if you have decent savings already?

Well, that's great. But a twenty eighteen federal reserve study found only forty percent of U. S. Household had liquid savings equal to three months expenses, and less than thirty percent had enough for six months. On top of all that, the average social security disability benefit in twenty twenty three is one thousand four hundred and eighty three dollars monthly. That ends up to less than eighty thousand dollars a year bikes .

that will not get you very far if you're unable to work. So who is walking us through the varies of disability insurance?

I had a great conversation with john ryan. Not to be confused with our earlier guest, ryan brady, and john is the founder and CEO of ryan insurance strategy consultants .

that's coming up in a moment. Stay with us.

Hey, john, it's great to have you on smart money.

Thanks, lives.

So we're going to talk about some various kinds of insurance that folks might have as options on their employer sponsored benefit plans. And i'd like to have you help us out first on disability. So what exactly is disability insurance? And why would somebody need IT?

Well, disability insurance is designed to replace a person's income. If they get sicker, hurt and can't work, pays the bills, keep them in their lifestyle. Very important to have, you know, life insurance does that if someone dies and provides a benefit, they can invest the proceeds and live off the proceeds. Disability insurance provides the same kind of cash flow if someone is disabled and cannot work at their job.

okay? And I hear that people are much more likely to be disabled to die during their working years. Is that true?

Uh, IT is true. You have to be careful of the statistics though. Some of the statistics that get used are like social security statistics, which is which is all walks of life. If we're dealing with more White collar, predominantly White collar risks is less frequent, but it's still more likely to occur than death at any age, actually.

So you mean that a disabilities is less likely to happen to you if you have an office job, which makes sense, right then if you have a blue color job or where you're out working with machinery or something .

else that that's right.

that's good to know. So what does employer problem disability insurance usually cover?

IT usually will cover the employee in their job, usually for a certain period of time, at least if they should get sick, red become unable to perform the important duties of that job, and benefit usually begin after, say, a ninety day waiting period. And then IT pays a certain percentage income replacement of their income for a set period of time, usually to age sixty five with the ata real long term disability.

So there's short term disability and long term disability. Can you talk about how those work?

Yeah, the short term picks up right away. I can pick up as early as a single day for an accident in a week for a sickness IT helps those who don't have some income saved for that buffer for that ninety days. And so IT would provide a weekly benefit for that ninety day period until the long term disability benefits could pick in and then .

the long term can run for a certain number of years, or as you said, all the way up to retirement age?

yes. So security moral retirement age is usually the duration for an employ or provided plan.

Are there differences between what kind of disability you would go on or qualify for if you are unable to do your specific job verses if you're not able to do any job?

Well, yeah, as you would imagine, if I have a disability policy that's gonna ensure me if I can't be, for instance, and insurance broker specifically, even if I could go and do some of the line of work, they're still gonna me my benefit to eight, sixty five versus a policy that says, john, you have to be unable to do any job for wage or profit before we'll pay you a benefit.

You could see how the two evac different, one would cost more than the other because the risk is higher to the insurance company. But there are about six different definitions of disability in the disability world all the way from those security, which is the hardest. These favorable up to the best individual policies on the marketplace have the most precise definition, which favorably ensured obviously cost more, but many insurer are willing to pay IT because of the advantage of that precise treatment of their sickness or injury.

okay. And actually, I wanted to get into that a little bit because people, if they are working in their internet work, the typically covered by worker's compensation insurance and john n, we should talk a little bit about what that is and how that relates to disability coverage.

Well, it's if you get sick, hurt on the job, the state can provide you some relief in the form of identity disability payments. It's only related to on the job illnesses or injuries how much one would receive as a percentage of income, i'm not sure.

Yeah, I think IT varies a lot by state, so it's good to look up. But IT doesn't cover anything that happens off the job, right? correct. And when IT comes to social security, I understand that's pretty .

hard to get IT is it's very hard to get. So security usually favors a the person that is least well off, I should say. So typically, White collar employees and owners are gonna be last in line when IT comes to qualifying for those kinds of benefits they usually take care of the the less well off first is typically how that works. And and as far as the employer policy, IT will have set for benefits that I received from so security. But since it's such a rare current, the usually is not an offset.

And speaking of employer provided disability insurance, is this coverage portable? Does IT follow you to your next job if you quit this one?

No, IT does not. IT is only effective when you work for your employer. And usually the work requirement is at least a thirty hour work week if you leave your employer, you almost always lose your coverage.

Hopefully, you're going to work for another employer that has similar coverage. But that's the lack support ability is also reason why many will buy a an individual privately owned policy as a supplement to the employee plan. And those policies are portable and can be added to.

And what should people know about buying an individual disability policy?

It's almost always under written. One of the beauties of employer plans, and we really like employ plans, is that it's usually no questions asked. You guaranteed issue.

As soon as you become employed, you going under the human resources of this sign a few papers in your covered immediately. Now there is a preexisting conditions clause, but is no exam, no lab work, no medals within individual policy, it's fully under written. So they'll be a formal application.

They may request medical records. They may send nurse to your home or your work to do your lab work. There's medication search, uh, that they do the underwriting for individual disability insurances. The most regret is when he comes to buying a policy. Look at this .

even more rigid than life insurance. Yes, interesting. Now you said medications search, so somebody he's actually keeping track of what medications we take um that we are insured for. And so there's a big database somewhere that these companies to can check.

There is a data base that like they do for your driving record, but there is also a medication data base that they go to.

There's a database .

for everything I you bet.

All right. Well, let's move on to hospital in demond coverage. This is something that our listeners might know because of a certain duck, those advertisements.

Is this something .

that generally offered by employers and a benefit package?

That is it's not as popular a coverage as you would think. And I don't usually recommend IT because I think the dollars are Better spent maybe looking at a private disability policy to supplement the employer plan. I believe the emphasis should be on the catastrophic, the loss that you just can't sustain, can't tolerate, which would be the long term loss.

But the flag type coverage is basically, as they say in the add gap coverage, there might be something higher deductable. There may be certain conditions that are not covered by your basic employer plan that the supplemental house position plan can pick up. So even .

though you don't recommend IT necessarily, can you explain what IT is, what hospital in demining insurance does and what purpose IT serves?

It'll cover those expenses that your basic health insurance does not cover.

So it's basically uh like the giving you cash essentially.

That's right. And in some hospital plans are accident only OK, uh, which is much less expensive. The perception is that if I get disabled, it's probably gonna an accent ent. And so they'll get an accident only hospital independent program. So there's two types of supplements to the basic medical program that an employer may provide.

And finally, john, let's how do you explain critical illness insurance for us? Pretty much what that sounds like right in trance in case you get a critical .

illness right in in those critical illnesses are illnesses like cancer, stroke, heart attack, diabetes, eta. And critical illness insurance can be easier to qualify for than a full coverage private disability program. So for someone who has difficulty getting that type insurance, a critical illness policy can be a good backup plan.

So once again, if you can get the disability policy, this might be a back up.

right?

okay. What's the extent of the benefit that usually get from this insurance like cancer or parkinson's or something like that could keep you out of work for months, if not years? How long do the payments go on and how much .

are they usually Normally can be a lumpsum or installed and payment? Lumb sumps can be as high as one hundred and fifty thousand for cancer, maybe even higher. You do have options when you buy IT for additional premiums, you can get a higher benefit if you like. So you can tailor make each policy based on what your budget is and what kind of condition is most important to you to um ensure.

So if you have like a family history of cancer or something.

yeah.

that's okay. I assume there's a preexisting condition class that right, if you already have cancer.

can you get no, if you already have, the condition is too late, which is why it's important to get IT. Well, you're Younger and before any serious problems surface.

this all feels a bit overwhelming. And like if i'm not insured for all the worst case disasters that could ever perform me, i'm in trouble. So is there such a thing as too much insurance against life?

Well, there are rules of thumb is to what's reasonable uh, expense. For instance, for an individual disability policy, you generally try to keep the cost between two and three percent of the income you're ensuring.

So that's super helpful.

Yeah, women sometimes can pay upwards of four percent because the industry perceives a women to be a higher risk. But if you're buying individual disability insurance to supplement the employer plan, you're probably looking at about one percent of your incomes. So someone making one hundred thousand will spend about a thousand a year for a good supplemental plan.

Why are women considered a higher risk?

If we couldn't ask that .

put you on the bed or john.

let's just keep at high level and say that they have a tendency to have more frequent claims in longer lasting.

So it's actually based on what the insurance companies are experiencing, not just because you've decided that women are flaking. Exit, okay. Are you good? So the rules of FM y you are giving us are really helpful. Um is there anyone that doesn't need disability coverage?

Well, yeah someone who if they ask themselves the question, if something happens to my income, who does IT impact negatively and if the answer is I can lose my income. But still maintain my financial responsibility, lit ie s and still support the financial plans that have outlined with my adviser. And the plane doesn't come crashing down and they probably don't need the insurance. But to the extent if you crash test your financial plan and IT looks like, well, you might be able to get away with three years, but then after that, things really start to fall apart, then you you're looking at the need for some level of coverage.

okay. So if you are approaching retirement and you're all set or your elon mask, you probably don't need disability insurance, right? John, thank you very much. We really appreciate your help.

Well, thank you is and nice to connect with you again. appreciated.

This am really glad that you and john talked about disability insurance because many of us non disabled people who are sometimes called tabs or temporarily able bodied by people in the disability community, so take for granted that we are able to move about the world and do our jobs. We can't imagine not being able to do so. But the truth is that anyone can become disabled, and you'll be really grateful for this coverage if that does happen.

Temporarily able. Body, I, oh, I love that.

Yeah, kind of hit you where IT hurts, right? But this you kind of hinted at this with john that most of this really sounds like worst cases in ario planning. I mean, I suppose all insurance is planning for a worst case.

But death, dismemberment, cancer, heart attacks, we're talking about and sharing against just about anything that could happen to us. Is that necessary? Is IT possible to say when maybe you have too much insurance?

I think the bigger problem is that people get overwhelmed with all their choices, and then they don't do anything to protect themselves and their loved ones, or they don't do enough. Our guests gave us some great information about how to think through this coverage and fitted in with all the other stuff that we want to do with our money. And of course, we have lots of resources on the nerd wallet site. Help you figure all of this out.

All right. Well, this tell us, was coming up an episode three of the series we're .

talking about pets.

Oh, my favorite topic. Well.

pet insurance, at least it's one of the many benefits you'll find companies offering during open a rollman along with things like gym memberships, adoption assistance, and we can't forget insurance for caring for your eyes and teeth.

Many dental plans actually provide a hundred percent coverage on the preventive care type measures. So things like the cleaning that someone might get for their teeth, outside of that, there might be a percentage employees would have to pay for other services like getting the x raise done or getting cavities filled.

And that's all we have to this episode. Do you have a money question of your own? Turn to the nurse and color texts as your questions at nine zero one 777 that's nine zero one seven three zero N E R D。 You can also email us at podcast at nerd wallet duck com visit neroli duck com slash podcast for more information on this episode and remember to hello rate and review us wherever you're .

getting this podcast. This episode was produced by test figure and liz I helped with editing koch ervy and liz help with that checking Kevin ted march mixed our audio and a big thank you to nervosa for all their help.

And here's our brief declaimer. We are not financial or investment advisers this nurse impose provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances.

And with that said, until next time turned, the nerds.