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cover of episode The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg on the Long-Term Consequences of Trump 2.0

The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg on the Long-Term Consequences of Trump 2.0

2025/6/2
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On with Kara Swisher

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Jeffrey Goldberg
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Kara Swisher
卡拉·斯威舍是一位知名的媒体评论家和播客主持人,专注于科技和政治话题的深入分析。
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Jeffrey Goldberg: 在“信号门”事件后,我发现特朗普对国家安全并不真正关心,他更在意的是谁获得了关注。这种对国家安全的漠视,以及他将新闻周期焦点转移到自己身上的做法,并没有改善我们的国家安全。我认为,特朗普政府在改善安全保障方面并没有采取任何实际行动。如果不是身处这个荒谬的时代,正常的总统政府本应展开调查,进行内部审查,甚至可能由司法部介入。相关人员应该受到惩罚,新的安全系统应该建立起来,并立即禁止使用Signal。但这些都没有发生。美国情报机构现在只能假设,俄罗斯和中国很可能已经掌握了特朗普手机上的所有信息。虽然完全禁止使用Signal可能不现实,但Pete Hegseth在Signal聊天中分享敏感信息,这反映了政府内部不严肃的人在重要职位上所带来的问题。这种缺乏严肃性的问题是无法通过技术手段解决的。更令人担忧的是,特朗普政府公开利用白宫为家族敛财,这是一种前所未有的腐败行为。他们甚至认为,只要腐败是透明的,就不是问题。特朗普的政治天赋在于,他会无耻地加倍强调那些普通人会感到尴尬或需要解释的事情。如果不解决这些问题,最终可能会发生非常糟糕的事情,因为他们草率、不严肃、无能,这可能会对现实世界造成严重后果。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter analyzes the Signalgate incident, where the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic was added to a group chat revealing sensitive information. It discusses the lack of accountability and the larger issues of national security and operational security within the Trump administration.
  • The Signalgate incident involved the accidental inclusion of the Atlantic's editor-in-chief in a group chat containing sensitive national security information.
  • The Trump administration's response focused on deflecting attention rather than addressing the security breach.
  • The incident highlights the dangers of inexperienced and unserious individuals holding high-level positions in government.

Shownotes Transcript

Jeffrey Goldberg has been a thorn in President Donald Trump’s side since the real-estate developer–turned reality-show host first ran for office in 2016. Back then — ten months before he took over as editor-in-chief of The Atlantic — Goldberg wrote a piece headlined “A Brief Exercise Meant to Illuminate the Prejudices of Donald Trump.” The magazine has continued its unsparing criticism of Trump ever since, and Goldberg’s recent Signalgate) story was just the latest in a series of blockbuster scoops that have nominally embarrassed the president. 

On Friday, Goldberg sat down with Kara for an on-stage interview at the WBUR Festival in Boston. They discussed Trump’s corruption, the unserious people staffing his administration (as well as with the very serious Russell Vought, a Project 2025 architect who heads the OMB), the Democratic Party’s travails, and the state of the news media. 

Questions? Comments? Email us at [email protected] or find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher.

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