Joseph Nguyen on Why You Must Fight for Your Inner Peace | EP 613
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Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days excludes restaurants. Coming up next on Passion Struck. As soon as the parents don't feel enough worth, they're going to make their kids feel like that too, to make them work for approval, for praise, for love. And that's how the parents believe that the child can grow up to become quote unquote successful. But is success worth it if the person is not happy, not at peace?

And those are more important questions to ask rather than can I be successful or not? Because then you have to really redefine what success means for you. And that's the point in which you can start to turn the tables and carve and pave a different path for yourself. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for

for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now,

Let's go out there and become passion struck. Welcome to passion struck episode 614, the podcast that ignites change from the inside out. I'm John Miles and I couldn't be more excited to kick things off today with some big news. We've just launched the passion struck clothing line and I absolutely love how it turned out. Every piece was designed with intention, wearable, inspiring, and quietly bold.

Whether it's a hoodie that says, you matter, live like it, or a shirt that reminds you to own your own spark, this collection reflects everything we stand for here at PassionStruck. And to celebrate, we're running a giveaway. When you join the Ignition Room, our new community for episode reflections, prompts, and behind-the-scenes conversations, you can win a free

you'll be able to win a passion-struck t-shirt and hat from the new line. To enter, just head to theignitedlife.net. It's completely free, and our community is growing every day. Now, we're in the midst of Mental Health Awareness Month, and we're focusing on how you move beyond just symptom management to deep, sustainable well-being. Last week, I released a solo episode on how to reframe your inner world

When Life Feels Like It's Too Much, where we talked about shifting our mindset and creating healthier thought patterns in times of overwhelm. Additionally, we had two powerful episodes last week. On Tuesday, I spoke with Dr. Zach Mercurio about his powerful new book, The Power of Mattering, which explored how small acts of recognition can transform cultures and individual lives.

Then on Thursday, I had the incredible Viet Simpkin on the show. Her life story from addiction to meditation guru is nothing short of extraordinary. And in our conversation, we discussed the radical connection between meditation, mattering and reclaiming your life. And today we're shifting gears, but staying on track. Let me ask you this. What if the biggest thing standing between you and your true potential isn't your circumstances,

but the way you're thinking about them. What if the very thoughts you're telling yourself are what's keeping you stuck? That's exactly what today's guest, Joseph Wynn, the number one New York Times bestselling author of Don't Believe Everything You Think, is here to help us with. This is a book that has resonated deeply with millions of readers worldwide. And Joseph challenges us to rethink

how we approach happiness, suffering, and the nature of our thoughts. His work has become a powerful guide for those looking to free themselves from the mental traps that keep themselves trapped in cycles of stress, anxiety, and self-doubt. This conversation is especially meaningful for me because Joseph's journey mirrors my own, a constant search for external success, achieving more, but still feeling like it was never enough. He and I both tried everything. There

therapy, breathwork, success strategies, but none of those things fix the root issue. So what actually works?

In today's episode, we dive into why overthinking is one of the biggest barriers to human flourishing, how to break free from the cycle of chasing success and external validation, what it truly means to fight for your soul rather than against it, how to balance intentionality and purpose while letting go of the need for constant achievement. This episode is about shifting our inner dialogue, understanding the power of our thoughts, and learning how to truly be at peace with who we are. Now,

Let's dive in to this deep transformative conversation with Joseph Wynn. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

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Get the Rakuten app now and join the 17 million members who are already saving. Cashback rates change daily. See Rakuten.com for details. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Your cashback really adds up. No offense, but your brain is a terrible place to keep your big idea. It belongs in the world, but you know that already. You have a calling, a voice that says, this is what I'm meant to do.

Create the website your big idea deserves with Wix. Make it your own with top-to-bottom customization, AI to help realize your vision, and built-in business tools to turn your daydream into your dream job. Wix supports every stage of the business journey except one, your decision to begin. Ready? Go to Wix.com. I am absolutely honored today to have Joseph Nguyen on PassionStruck. Welcome, Joseph.

Thank you so much, John. It's an honor to be here. When you guys reached out to me, I have to say the honor was mine because your book has touched so many people around the world. And if people don't know what I'm talking about, the name of Joseph's book is Don't Believe Everything You Think. And it has become a global phenomenon. So congratulations.

Thank you so much. It means a lot. And to me, I was more so just sharing my own journey and just all the mental and emotional suffering that I was personally going through and what helped me. And so I'm just very grateful that it resonates with other people and it confirms that I'm also human and other people are too, and that we're not really alone. So it's a blessing. I remember one time I was having a discussion with Rory Vaden. Not sure if you know who he is. I do. Yeah.

but rory said to me as i was trying to think through what i was trying to do with passion struck and everything and he said john your best position to serve the person who you once were and joseph i have to say reading your story it felt like i was actually looking into a mirror

I know personally what it's like to reach that point where on paper everything looks great, but inside you're in a complete downward spiral. I have never felt so much numbness in my entire life. And I too chased external validation. I was, in my case, climbing the corporate ladder. I was trying to build and build and constantly striving for more. But no matter what I achieved, I just never felt like it was enough.

I was caught in what I now call chasing the mirage. So after reading your book, it so deeply resonated with me, and I thought I would share that with you. That's such a beautiful story. And thank you so much for opening up about that, because I feel like many people do reach that point where they set out certain goals for themselves, achieve it, and then just quickly forget about the goal that they used to have. And all that they're focusing on now is how

unfulfilled they are. And they don't really want to admit that after achieving what they wanted, it was nothing that they had imagined. And it's probably worse off than before they started, which was my case specifically. And that's very hard to share because you can just go into the comparison cycle and say, oh, there's so many more people that are way worse off, not even talking about their world countries, but within the same country. There's so many different people that don't have as much as

I do or we do and who am I to complain about where I am? So I think there's a lot of this suppression of this lack of fulfillment and resentment and anger and anxiety that a lot of us don't want to share. And it's quite difficult to share because then everyone starts attacking each other and saying, I have it worse than you. But I think if we are able to have the courage to open up then and come from a place of non-judgment and more so compassion versus comparison, then I think

most people would be able to find a little bit more peace in their lives and be able to support each other. Yeah. Sometimes we don't think about the bigger things that are happening in the world. And when you start thinking about that, there are 2 billion people in the world who don't have clean water, a billion people in the world who don't know where they're getting their next meal from, or even the fact that 99% of us now are breathing contaminated air. It gives you a lot of things to think about and

My favorite way that I've heard it explained is when I talk to astronauts and they discuss the overview effect. And one of my really good friends is an astronaut. And I always remember him telling me the story that he's on the ISS. He's flying over New York. He's looking down. He's picturing himself. It's rush hour.

how agitated the people are. They're giving each other the finger. They're in a hurry to get from here and there. And he's just said, I'm sitting up here looking down, realizing that none of that matters. And why can't we live in a world where we see the bigger issues that need to be solved and how we can come together to solve them? So I think that is my favorite way of thinking about the problem. Yeah, that's beautiful. And we,

Luckily, we don't have to go into a spaceship and go to the ISS, you know, in orbit to be able to have a similar effect. We can just do that within our minds, which is quite nice. So as I was going through your journey, both of us tried so many different modalities to fix ourselves. We both did therapy. We both tried breath work. We both did productivity hacks. We both did personal growth success type of strategies.

But similar to you, I found that all of those were good temporarily, but that the suffering I was going through didn't end. So for you, and then I'll describe my own path, if all those approaches failed, what actually worked? Yeah, this is a great question. There's a couple of ways that I look at this. Number one is I believe that most people have to try a myriad of different things before they

come across certain things that really click for them. So in that regard, I always encourage people to keep trying to keep going because it's usually not in just one modality that you find what you're looking for. It's actually a combination of things. And that's actually what creativity is, right? There's very few things are actually original in this world. They're mostly just a remix of each other, even us as humans.

Our DNA is not original. It's from our parents that combined and then created us, which looks unique on the surface, but then it's really, you can look at the source and see that it's, oh, it's from somewhere else. In the same way, I think that's how we can come to our own solutions and discovering something that works for us in terms of finding peace and more joy.

For me and my journey, I tried a lot of different things like you were mentioning. So CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy, I tried energy work, Reiki, I tried doing a lot of shadow work. So like Jungian, things like that. Also, like I did acupuncture went into like more of the eastern side, I started studying Zen, Buddhism, and Western philosophies as well, philosophers and like stoicism. All those things were like, absolutely amazing. And definitely were like stepping stones and

in my journey. Then I even studied Dr. Joe Dispenza went into a meditation retreat for seven days in Cancun, which was phenomenal as well. And what's interesting is that even after I came back to the after the seven day retreat, we were meditating for three, four or five hours a day, right waking up at 4am meditating on the beach.

What's so interesting is during those meditations, I felt pure bliss. So it was amazing. But then as soon as I opened my eyes and came back into the real world, so to speak, how to go to work or start working on my business, whatever it was at the time, all of the anxiety came flooding back. So I would just relapse back into that constant state of fight or flight. So that was very odd for me. And it wasn't until I started to question like, what is it in those modalities? Because almost every single one of them worked.

to a certain extent, and then they stop working. So basically the lifespan, or at least the benefits of the modality only worked while I was practicing it. So that's when I asked myself the question of what about the modalities allowed me to feel that sense of peace? And then is it possible to feel that beyond the modality? And that's when I realized that it was more so rooted in my mind than anything else. Once I was isolated, like I always say this too, I think it's

relatively simpler to find peace. If you become a monk and go into the middle of the mountains in a dark cave and no one's bothering you and you're completely isolated from the external world, it's probably a little bit easier to find peace there. But the real challenge is, can you find that same level of peace when you're in rush hour in New York, right? Or when you're talking with your family and they don't understand your decisions and you're constantly trying to defend yourself. Those are the moments where you're really tested.

that will prove to you whether the modality works or not. So for me, it was more so questioning what is it in my mind that's causing me to go back into this vicious cycle of overthinking and anxiety and suffering. That's when I was able to find out that the constant judgment of my own thoughts and the events and circumstances that I'm going through was the root of all of the anxiety that I had. Although some of the events were, you could say, and label as painful,

that won't change. But the emotional suffering tied to that event after it happened is something that I was doing to myself after the fact, the ruminating on what happened, wishing it were different, or being angry at someone for doing something back then. Anything that happens post-event, that becomes a creation of our mind through the judgment of ourselves, others, or the world. That particular observation was what broke me free and allowed me to just

see it as it is, instead of constantly narrating what's going on and being okay with, okay, this is what happened. Is this thinking actually helping me in the moment? Is it useful? And I just never realized that I could just stop thinking about it. That just never occurred to me. It was just, I always thought I had to solve it before it would go away, but you can't solve the past. That's the issue. And so once I realized that and I could let it go and then come from a place of groundedness and more so love,

that's what I can do in the present moment. And that can then therefore change my future. But that's always through the present moment. But that's what broke it for me. And I'm so grateful that it happened. And now a lot of the book, that's exactly what I explained. And a lot of people are able to now break through the mirage, as you would say, and find a little bit more peace from the incessant chatter.

I just interviewed Ethan Cross, and I remember when his book came out titled Chatter. And that was eye-opening to understand the science behind our inner voice as well. And the role, he has a new book out called Shift that kind of goes into the emotional ramifications of that. But as you talk about in the book, the root cause of all suffering is this belief in a negative thought. And this, when I was coming back from

the same place as you was a massive shift for me because for so long I too blamed my circumstances, my past, my struggles, even external expectations for my unhappiness. And I think what people don't realize is when they've reached this point of stuckness, they're thinking that there's a quick fix. And what I have found, I'm not sure if it's the same case as you, but there was a journey to you feeling like

you were becoming invisible, like you weren't mattering. And there's a journey out of it as well, because in many ways you have to learn who you are again. And I remember as I was going through this, one of the most important things that I had to realize is there was so much that had to be fixed, but I needed to fix it to find a starting point. And for me, that was getting through the stuck points from some past trauma and

that if I didn't deal with that past, the negative voices were never going to go away. And so when I learned how to rethink about them and that it wasn't my fault, it opened the door for me to emerge as a much stronger new version of myself. Does that resonate with you? Yeah, that's beautiful. And when you were revisiting those past traumas, what happened within yourself that allowed you to let that go? Because it sounds like it was a little bit of

compassion and a little bit of forgiveness, but I wasn't sure of who and how that worked for you. Yeah. So similar to you, I did cognitive processing therapy. I did EMDR. I did Reiki. I did yoga. I did all these things. I did tons of long walks. I tried podcast. I tried personal growth books. I guess what it finally was is I went through a prolonged exposure therapy and

I had a really bad, I guess, traumatic event that it's hard because I've had many, but I decided to just focus on one because I figured if I could start dealing with this story, I could then figure out a way to deal with the others. But it was tough because I'd have to go into these sessions

and do them time and time again. And it was almost as if, I guess the way that they do it is that the therapist treats it as if they've never heard it before. So you've got to go through the whole experience again and again. The more I told it, the more I started to see different sides of it and how I was really creating these mental barriers that I was allowing myself

to self-destruct over. And I refer to this all the time as something that I call, we become a visionary arsonist to our dreams. And I was arsoning the very things I wanted to accomplish because I couldn't get out of my own way. Yeah. And so that prolonged exposure therapy just allowed you to almost zoom out and go to like space almost and see it from different vantage points. And I'm assuming it became a little bit more

separated from yourself, less personal, and you're able to let go of it at that point to then see what surfaced. I'm curious, like what surfaced for you after you were able to reconcile it? Well, I had been given a calling a long time ago, probably around, I don't know, 2008, 2009, that I was supposed to be helping this group of people that the message in my head was the helpless, the hopeless, the lonely, the bored, the broken,

of the world. And at the time, I'm a senior executive in a Fortune 50 company, and I have no idea what this message is or how I was trying to help them. And my initial thought was I'm supposed to go and help people at St. Vincent de Paul or the people who are out there who are homeless. I went and I did work in cold shelters and other things.

And those people are extremely needy. But the further I got into this, what I started to realize is the people that I've been called to serve aren't just them. There are billions of people right now who are lost. And I started to see that this lost person that I was, who was caught up in this societal conditioning and believing the myth or the lie that we're

taught to believe was just that, a lie. And that all the things that I thought were going to bring me fulfillment, success, happiness were driving me further away from it. And I came to the conclusion that I now was here to talk more authentically about this because as Rory said, I think once we've gone through this and we felt it and the pain of it

the last thing you want to do is have another person feel the pain that you felt. So that for me was then my switch to now that I've figured out a way for myself to get through this, how do I start helping other people start getting through it? That's absolutely beautiful. And it's so interesting. That's exactly what happens when we're able to overcome a lot of the things that we've gone through in the past. For you, what was that? Where did that calling come from?

Who, what would you say gave you the calling or if anything? Well, I, it depends on what your spirituality is. I would have said it came from God. Other people would say it came from the source from the universe, but let's just say it came from the source. I tried to steer away from going down the path of dealing with it. And it became like a biblical tale of scorpions and floods and yeah.

termites and rodents and bedbugs. And I can't even tell you how many times I was hit over the head before I woke up. And people laugh about it when they hear the story. But I think if you really think about it, we all have our own journey of the story. Mine had more biblical elements to it, but I think a lot of people are given the message and they choose to ignore it.

What's your thought? Yeah. So was it actually like literal scorpions and bedbugs or was it something- Like literally- Okay. Okay. I thought you were just talking metaphorically. In the shower and my eyes closed and all of a sudden feeling this stinging sensation and looking up and seeing scorpions falling from the ceiling. Yes. And how did you know that was related to your calling? Well, I didn't at the time, but then-

When they came back, then when termites destroyed half my house, then when my house was flooded in a storm, then when my kids had bedbugs, then it was just like this.

this series of unfortunate events that just kept getting worse and worse. And the more I leaned into steering myself away from it, the more painful it became. So you went through like the whole Exodus that is like the locusts and everything until you finally heeded the call. Yeah. Well, I recently I was at the service and Christian based church and

It reminded me during the service of this verse from Matthew. It's Matthew 16, 26, and it reads, what do you benefit if you gain the whole world, but you lose your own soul? Is there anything more than your soul? And it got me to thinking about it as I was at these lowest points. That's really what I was doing. If you think about it from a biblical standpoint is I was really fighting for my soul.

And did you ever have that feeling? What does it truly mean to fight for your soul rather than against it? Oh, that's, I would argue that's worse than most physical pain. It transcends the body and goes into an energetic level that you can't escape from. It actually will seep into, you can't even sleep it away. It'll seep into your dreams, turn into nightmares. And every single thing that you do, person you interact with reminds you of this experience

inner civil war, so to speak, for your own soul. It does. And one of the things I loved about your book is how many amazing quotable sections that there are. I'm writing a book now and I'm going to use some of them. One of them is you write that the mind is like a projector and the world is the screen. And that reminds me of this whole topic of fighting for your soul, because we become the prisoners of the stories we tell ourselves. And

It really comes down to how do you recognize that you're trapped in a projection of your own suffering? Because I think that's what people don't wake up to. The simplest way to know if you're trapped in that projection or the mirage is are we suffering emotionally? There isn't, like I was saying before, there's a separation between going through quite painful event and then post event. Is there still emotional suffering there?

beyond that. And if there is, then that's likely a projection that's occurring. And most of the time when we are having quite a bit of anxiety, depression, resentment, anger, all of these things, they are after something has happened or in anticipation of something that will happen very rarely in the present moment. And if it is in the present moment, that's something totally different. And that's something that we just have to go through and is unavoidable.

but the majority of the time it isn't in the actual present. And even if it is in the present, if we go through it without the constant mental chatter, the incessant judgment of whatever's going on, then we can move through it with a little bit more ease and grace. It still might be difficult, but it's manageable. And you'll probably see how you're growing from it, if anything. But to me, I always use emotional suffering as a reminder, right? Not a trigger, but a reminder that

I'm thinking about this event and labeling it and judging it in a certain way that's not serving me or anyone else involved. And a reminder that I can let that go at any moment, that I don't have to think about it in this negative way.

And that's hard. It's not easy because most of our lives we've been conditioned and trained to believe that we need to think about these events in certain ways and to have an opinion about everything. But that's just not true. And all opinions do is just create separation from you and what's happening, from you and the other person. That's what creates wars and all sorts of conflict between husband, wife, families, countries. But if we're able to

suspend our opinions, then we can actually find truth. And that's where we find peace. One of the things I know you want to do explore, and I think it fits into here, Joseph, is when we're going through this battle, we often are caught between logic, how we think the world works and the intuition that's pulling us in a different direction. And there are opposite at times, they're complementary at times,

And sometimes they're completely something else when we're making life decisions. What are your thoughts on that? We touched on it when you were discussing your calling. That's something that I would label as intuition, God's source, higher self, anything that is beyond the fight or flight, fearful mind. Another way to describe it is your heart, your soul. That still exists.

quiet, small voice, like in the back of your mind, or kind of centered within your heart, that voice is always there always guiding you. And that's something that I love to discuss that most people don't simply because the predominant kind of chatter in the mind is from the mind versus the heart. And most of us pay more attention to that fight or flight mind because it's louder, because it's seemingly more alarming, it's urgent. While the

still quiet voice is just that it's very quiet. You don't really notice it. It's in the background, gently nudging you in the direction that you know you want to go. And it's never urgent. That's the thing. It never uses scare tactics or anything like that. It doesn't try to coerce you into any actions.

but it will gently guide at all times and is there when you need it. So that intuition is some concrete examples would be it's that voice that told you to go ask this person out that eventually became your lifelong partner. It's that voice that told you to move to this place. And then when you move there, miraculously, you found your dream job or your best friend or something like that. It told you to go to college or leave college, to leave a marriage, to start a marriage. That voice is anything but logic.

Every time we make one of those major life decisions, if you think back to some of the biggest decisions you ever made in your life that radically changed it for the better, that was probably not logical.

Everyone said you shouldn't do it. Your parents said you shouldn't do it. Even your friends said you shouldn't do it, yet you did it anyway. And that's exactly what you wanted. And it yielded some miraculous things that you couldn't even have anticipated. That's intuition because it operates in the land of the unknown. Logic operates in the land of the known, which can only use the past to predict what it thinks it can happen in the future. But it can't just go completely into the unknown. But it's only in the unknown that something different can happen. And

instead of what's already happened in the past. And it's just a repeat of that. So that's where logic and intuition will look like they are opposing forces. And some people, I always got this confused too, because sometimes you'll think logic is just like thinking about something rationally and objectively, but those are a little bit different. But in any case, at the end of the day, we're trying to operate our lives and optimize for joy, peace, and love, all of which are not really logical.

What's logical is making a life for yourself, getting a good job, rising through the ranks, making good money, starting a family, and then just retire. And that's it. That's logical. But how many times when we follow that path are we actually fulfilled?

Doing what society says, doing what our parents says, doing what our community wants us to do, becoming the person that everyone else wants us to be, but we know that we're not living up to and trying to uphold those expectations and opinions about ourselves from other people. That very rarely creates a life that we love. And if anything, suffocates who we really are. But as soon as we let all that go, we discover ourselves.

this deep sense of peace and start to peel back the layers of who we're not to find out who we are. And that really starts with following your intuition and going against the grain, so to speak. But following your intuition is really the path to peace. And everyone has to pave their own path in that regard. We can't follow someone else and expect it to be the exact same as them because we don't want the same things as them. So that's what I discovered between

logic and intuition and really following our hearts more times than not, that's going to yield a much more joyful life, even if others don't understand. Joseph, I'm going to have to send you a copy of my book since I read yours because the whole opening introduction of the book is exactly what you just talked about. And I actually go through and I have in there, here's the formula that we're typically given in life. And it typically leads to

the opposite of what we want inside. And I use that as a starting point of how you have to create an intentional life if you want one that matters and start focusing on things that really matter to you instead of the things that aren't going to move the needle. And I'm just going to tie in a personal story for you because before I started PassionStruck and I was just talking about the idea to some people

I was getting so much pushback. I remember not going to give his name, but I was talking to a really successful person in Tampa. This person had just had a major exit, had made hundreds of millions of dollars from it. And I was talking to him about what I was hoping to do. And he said, John, you know how many people have told me to do that and how difficult what you're saying it is to actually accomplish?

He goes, I want you to think about it because look at what you're leaving behind and you are going to struggle so hard and you have no idea if that struggle is going to lead anywhere.

And then early on in the journey, when I decided to do it, I was talking to Jordan Harbinger. I'm not sure if you've been on his show or not, but I was talking to Jordan, who's been doing podcasting almost since the beginning. And I said, what would be your advice for going down this medium? And he said, my best advice would be never to start. And I understand why he said it now. And he told me a couple of years into it that if I...

was the type of person who heard him say that, got the warning and still persevered. That was the type of person who needs to do it. But the fact is there are tons of unknown. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if something's going to take hold. You don't know when you self-publish a book, what's going to happen to it, just like you did. But I really firmly believe that if your intuition is really

calling you to do something, I really think it's that greater power that's telling you that you were put here on earth to do something. You were supposed to serve people in a way that only you can do through the inherent talents that you've been given. And you're supposed to help people flourish. And when we struggle against that, I think it's when we have the roughest patches in our lives, like I experienced, like you experienced, but when we're leaning more into it,

I think the gates open up and we find ourselves more on a glide path because we're doing what we've been called to do. And that's how I have learned to realize it. Because when I started out, I wasn't trying to impact millions. I now am. But all I thought is podcasting was great because I get to have a conversation with one person who might be listening and perhaps they were that person I once were. And if I can make them

Start thinking about their life in a different way and take it in a more positive trajectory. Well, then I'm winning the battle. That's the whole point of doing this. And I have to remind myself of that fact that you never realize like this discussion we're having here today, just if you never realize what struggles someone is going through, it could be someone dealing with cancer. It could be someone who is facing mental struggles so deeply that they're willing, they're

thinking about ending their life. It could be someone who faced deep deaths of despair from sexual abuse or something else. And hopefully we can give them guidance to take them out of their despair. That's how I look at it. And it only takes one person to hear that message for it to be worth it. Right. A lot of times we kind of scare ourselves out of doing something simply because

We don't think we can make it that big or that successful or anything like that. But to me, the way I approached writing my book was if it helped me, then it already is worth it because I can be that person that I can help. And if I can help just one other person, then that would be worth all the struggle because you never really know what the impact of one person is. Yeah.

It could be the next person that cures cancer. It could be the next person that finds and facilitates world peace. We never know. And the impact of one person is so great. It's seemingly infinite because every person in our lives knows that around a thousand people or something like that, a thousand people knowing another thousand people, like it just magnifies and you're really ever a couple of degrees away from the whole world. So I never take one soul very lightly. That's a huge deal and it's always worth it.

Well, I completely agree with you there. Joseph, I wanted to switch the discussion a little bit to do a little bit of talking on something that I've deeply been researching, which is mattering. It's basically what I've been trying to look at is why are people feeling so invisible or like they're not enough? And I think a lot of it is what we've been talking about. They attach their worth to their achievements.

And the whole premise of your book is your thoughts don't define you. And it's become a radical idea, but it's not really radical. It's really how do you detach your identity from your thoughts, especially when the world constantly pressures you to be something. And I think we get so focused on that B that we forget the U that started the whole journey to begin with.

And where I wanted to go with this is I think one of the biggest groups of people who are being trained to think like this are kids today because they're seeing parents like I was who are modeling this behavior. And then now the kid is thinking, if I get all A's, that's the key to success. If I get into the best college, that's the key to success. If I do all the things, etc.,

In your mind, if that is where it starts, how do we start breaking this cycle? So the question of how do we help the next generation always begins with ourselves. It's odd because you would think to go directly to the kids and that's where we can have a lot of impact. But in actuality, who we become, like who we are surrounded by the most, which the kids are around their parents the most and how they learn best is modeling. So when we're discussing this,

actually the best way to help the next generation is actually to help the parents and to help the parents that are looking for these answers that want to create a better future, not only for themselves, but for their children. And of course, therefore the world. And so I always try to focus there because it ripples very quickly if that's the case. And it really begins with questioning the mind like we've been talking about this whole entire time. Once the parents are able to learn how to emotionally regulate and calm the nervous system,

they're able to become so much more better significantly better parents and they're able to raise their kids with compassion with love with understanding and when they're able to show that to their kids the kids are then able to show that to other people and when they grow up then they're

most likely going to have a lot less trauma to have to work through and therefore the world becomes better because of that. But it's true that the rising generation is going to feel the brunt of this and the reason why the kids are being raised to feel this way is from the parents. So if we can work with the parents who are a little bit more cognitively developed, have the capacity to be able to understand these things, that's where it can all start. Kids honestly are innately born with

not really caring about what other people think. They'll just go run around the backyard, play with their imagination and wear all sorts of crazy things, dress up and have all sorts of dreams. And it isn't until that they grow up that those things are beat out of them. And that's because of the adults. So that's where I think the source of it is. I think actually new parents are probably a fantastic focus because they're probably the most open

They're looking for ways to raise their kids, looking for better ways, at least, than the previous parents and the previous generations. So that would be a fantastic place to begin. And I think you're doing a fantastic job of that by giving people this information that is quite literally life-changing when heeded. And maybe I need to write a book right there because I'll tell you, when I became a parent, there was no book. And I still haven't found one. I told you how difficult it is. It really is. And that's the point in which

The best time for someone to change is when things are already changing. So when someone becomes a parent, everything's flipped. Their routines are out of order. There's pure chaos. There's no order. They're looking for footing. They're looking for a foundation. This is when...

They're not really looking at themselves as much anymore, but looking after someone else. And so they're constantly learning and trying to figure this out. But it is really hard as a new parent, especially in this world, right? Do you give your kid the iPad or not? And how do you entertain them without any technology and all these things? So that would be a pivotal point for sure. That's the future right there. It definitely is. I had Jennifer Wallace on the show a long time ago. I don't know if you know who Jennifer is, but she wrote a bestseller called Never Enough.

and she was really going into the achievement cult the high achievement culture that's affecting so many kids and one of the things i remember that she told me was the issue is it becomes this endless loop so you've got these kids who are seeing their parents modeling this and then the parents are the ones who've got to steer the ship but the parents themselves aren't getting

the feeling that they matter. They're going into work and they're doing things that aren't inspiring them. They're not getting positive feedback. They're burned out. They come home completely empty and then they have nothing left to give to the kids. And to me, it's counterintuitive, but you

in order to help the kids you have to help the parents start feeling like they're engaged again that's exactly it because again like with the exposure from the kids they're just going to model the parents so even if we teach the kids there's such a strong force from the parents that it's very difficult to undo unless you start from the source there but it's a fantastic opportunity for parents i became a new parent recently so that's why i'm speaking to it more specifically congratulations thank you but and one of the ways that i'm approaching it is

When we have a new child, we can approach it with the lens of this is the opportunity for me to parent in the way that I wish I was parented, right? Undo all those past traumas, giving myself the things that I wish I had, but now to my child. And that in itself is healing my own inner child while giving our child now exactly what they need, hopefully at least, right? And I'm sure that's going to be a lot better than the alternatives, but it starts there and seeing that

and like creating a whole new belief system that we inherently have worth, that we don't really have to do anything to earn that. And it's simply because we exist, that we're human. Anything that exists has that inherent value in it and you don't have to do anything to earn it. And in giving them that, that's essentially what unconditional love is. And if a child grows up

in that environment, they'll flourish because they're not trying to do things to earn your own approval, to earn your praise, to earn your love. And when a child isn't optimizing for those things, they can truly be themselves and not be afraid that if they mess up, that you won't love them anymore. Or if you don't listen, if they don't listen to you, then they won't have food on the table or something like that. So making the child feel safe, which in turn will make you feel safe because that's all you really care about in this moment.

will start to heal everyone. And it's a powerful position to have. And you have a lot more influence than you think as a parent and to your child as well. So it really starts there and undoing all of that. So that's what I'm hoping to be able to transfer to mine, right? That unconditional love and allowing them to explore completely unfiltered without any restraints. As long as it's not really like

life threatening, which most things aren't. If they look too silly, if they're embarrassing me, like that doesn't matter anymore. I'd rather them be kids for as long as possible. And for me not to pry all of that out of them. And I think doing less is probably going to be doing a lot more in this case. I was just talking to another guest near IEL. Yes, I know. We were talking about how he was raising his daughter. I think she's 14-ish and how they homeschool. And we were getting into this whole

I guess, line of thought that we aren't giving, as you were just explaining, kids the space to become themselves. And I grew up, I love my parents. They're very supportive, but I was held to such high expectations, both by them and my grandparents. And I didn't feel like I could go to them with any weakness or any screw up because of how much I felt I would get judged.

And then on top of that, I was sent to parochial school. So I'm in this very Catholic environment being raised by a very Catholic family and even more Catholic instead of grandparents. I had one grandmother who went to church every single day and I'm conditioned that you're constantly sinning and you're going to go to the other place and you can't make mistakes. For me, I then, instead of going down this path where

I was going to go to a civilian college. I ended up going to the Naval Academy. So I brought even more conditioning on me. So I tell people that it wasn't like until I was 30 when I got out of the military, when I stopped being conditioned to be someone else. But I think we, so many of us grow up wearing these masks. And when you have this mask that you're pretending to be someone you're not, it is horrible because you're not letting the true you

come out in any way. And is that how you ever felt? Well, I was to give you some context. I was born and raised Catholic as well, and went to Catholic school for a little bit. And my dad wanted to be a Catholic priest.

And then he met my mom and I even at one point wanted to be totally get it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I visited like the seminary. I was there bunking with the priests. Like it was deep. It was deep. My parents are still Catholic. I don't particularly identify with any particular religion, but deeply honor and respect every single one of them and learn.

a universe of information through each and every single one of them. So I absolutely love them and think that they're all trying to help people, right? They're all just different roads to the same destination. Long story short, yes, like I definitely know that it was definitely, I was raised in more of a fear-based environment because of that. Catholicism is a little bit more fear-based than other

Christian faiths, you can't sin. And if you do sin, you have to go confess. And then even if you do confess, you're still a sinner anyway. You still have to earn your worth and prove yourself that you can get to heaven doing these certain things. And kind of like, no matter how much you do, you still have to do more. So that's a lot for a child, right? To have to grow up in. And it's like, then you start to internalize, no matter what I do, I'm not enough. That's how the child learns it because the parents learn that because the parents are still going through that same thing of,

I still have to do way more than what I'm doing now to earn my place in heaven or in society or wherever it is. As soon as the parents don't feel enough worth, they're going to make their kids feel like that too, to make them work for approval, for praise, for love. And that's how the parents believe the child can grow up to become quote unquote successful. But is success worth it if the person is not happy, not at peace?

And those are more important questions to ask rather than can I be successful or not? Because then you have to really redefine what success means for you. And that's the point in which you can start to turn the tables and carve and pave a different path for yourself. But yeah, like a lot of parents, it's really difficult, but parents can start to not try to live their dreams through their child. I

I think that'll probably help a lot in allowing the child to become who they want to be rather than what you want them to be. Even if you think it's the best for them, right? Ultimately, we don't know what's best for ourselves or we don't know what's best for other people, but we do have an idea of what would create a more joyful and abundant life for ourselves. But to try to impose it on someone else would be taking away their own autonomy, including if that's our own kids.

But that's something that I would want to do. And if they, if my kids grow up and they're like, I want to do something completely different than what you want me to do, then I've done my job as a parent, right? I taught them to question things, to think for themselves, to trailblaze. And if that's something completely different from me, then that's perfect. And that's for me to work through on my own, but not for my kids to have to work through. I remember my son, he's now 26, but at the time he was three or four. And I remember

I just was parenting just like I had been parented, which is obviously common. And I remember I just made this decision that he's going to be totally screwed up like I was if I don't switch the pattern now. And it was really tough, but I learned that I had to let go. And so luckily with both the kids,

I just realized that it's much better if they screw up royally when they're young than doing it when they get older, when the consequences become much more severe. And I think it's allowed them to be able to come to us and talk about things, my son more than my daughter. But

I'm glad I made that pivot because I feel like they have the space that they feel that they can come to us and have real conversations. And that's what you want as a parent, right? To just be closer to your kids. But the more that we try to control them, the less that they want to open up. So it's a very interesting paradox, but it is, that is exactly how it is. The more you let go, the closer that they'll feel to you and you to them. And that's because you're allowing them to be who they are.

And that's beautiful. And you've already created that change in one generation. So now they have a great example for when they have kids. Sure isn't easy for those who are listening. Oh, yeah. So speaking about the listeners, Joseph, people might be listening to our discussion and thinking everything John and Joseph are talking about sounds really nice. But here I am, and I just can't turn off my thoughts. How do I actually create that space for

when you're stuck in the mental loop that we often find ourselves in, what would be your advice to that person? Yeah, I'll give a quick example and then go through a framework that can help. And that's what I've personally used. And then a lot of people who have read the book, hundreds of thousands of people at this point have used to be able to find a little bit more peace in their lives. The first thing is to realize and ask yourself the question, how often has overthinking

helped or even solved the situation that I'm going through right now? Is this thinking actually useful? And once you start asking yourself that question, you'll start to realize that it's almost never helped and actually has made things significantly worse. And so understanding that will allow you to make a mental note for yourself that whatever I'm doing now is the overthinking, the constant belief in the anxious thoughts. These things are

are just holding me back from being able to find what I want in life, which is more peace and joy. And I also love asking the question of when you are the most stressed out in your life, how much thinking is going on in that moment? It's probably a lot. And if you flip the question, when you are the happiest, think about a time that you were your happiest or in a state of flow, how much thinking was going on during that time? How much mental chatter or judgment? It's probably none or very little.

And just from those two questions alone, that helped me realize that it is my thinking, my judgment of whatever I'm going through, or even my own thoughts or myself is what's causing my suffering. So just understanding that alone will, it gives us the sort of permission and reassurance that we can let this go because it hasn't been helpful at all. And that the times that we were happiest in our lives were when we weren't thinking or thinking very little.

Then it begs the question of how do you navigate life if you're not thinking? So when I say thinking, I specifically define it as the negative judgment of anything. Negative judgment of our thoughts, ourselves, other people, events, situations. That negative judgment of whatever it is, the root cause of suffering. And to suspend that is to create space for peace. Because most of the time, like 80, 90% of all the stuff that's going in our minds is this negative judgment. And that's the story that we keep reliving.

so understanding that gives you that opportunity and so now we can get into the framework of how to actually let go of this thinking and this framework is called pause so that's also in the book as well and is it an acronym so the first letter is p which is pause and take deep breaths and what this allows you to do is to ground yourself into the present moment because you can't take a deep breath in the past you can't take a deep breath in the future you can only take it in the present moment and that's where

peace resides. It doesn't reside in the past or the future. Anxiety lives in the future and resentment lives in the past. So pause and take deep breaths and try to breathe with your whole body. Most of us have very shallow breaths because we're in a hyperactive overstimulated state, fight or flight mode. And so our breaths are very shallow. And when we go through a lot of anxiety, our breath gets shallower and shallower. When people are going through panic attacks, the breath gets very short.

But the first thing they say when someone's going through a panic attack is what? Take deep breaths. So this is the process that we can go through. This is like somatic therapy. So take deep breaths. The next letter in the acronym is A, which is ask yourself, is this thinking useful? If it isn't, then the next letter is U, which is understand that you can let it go, that you don't have to continue overthinking and that you have the choice and the agency and autonomy to

to say, I no longer want to think in this way. I no longer want to negatively judge these things. And I choose to let it go. And that's you. That's P-A-U and an S is say and repeat the mantra. You can use any mantra. I specifically love the mantra of thinking is a root cause of suffering. And you can use something else like I let go and choose peace as a mantra.

But you can use anything that allows you to feel more grounded. And it needs to be rooted in some sort of truth so that when you're saying it in your own mind, not only are you focusing the mind on the mantra specifically, but you're also anchoring yourself in some sort of truth. It could be anything, right? But truth is what matters. So in that case, that's going to be S. And then just repeat that mantra for about however long that you need. And the next letter is S.

E, which is E, which is experience your emotions fully without resistance. And a lot of times people think that when you let go of your thinking, you're bypassing your emotions. And that's not true. What this does is it allows you to experience your emotions without judgment. When you allow your emotions to be there and take up space and to be seen without being judged, labeled as something negative, then it actually passes a lot more quickly than you anticipate.

What we resist persists and what we let be will inevitably leave. And this is specifically for our emotions. So most of us believe that quote unquote negative emotions are bad, but they're actually not bad. They're all messengers and trying to teach you something. All emotions are doorways to the present moment. And that's how I use them is every time I experience some sort of quote unquote negative emotion, I use it as a little kind of like reminder that I'm

i'm not in the present i'm thinking in the future or in the past i'm judging i'm labeling something i'm negatively i have a negative opinion about this thing so that's what i use to come back into the present moment and to release that judgment and that's how i'm able to go through this whole entire process but that process is very specific and just try that if anything if that's a lot to remember just repeat the mantra and take deep breaths

And try that whenever you are experiencing any sort of negative emotion. And you don't even have to believe anything that I'm saying at all. The best way to see for yourself is to try it and to experiment and to see if it works for you. And just try it for the next seven days. Try to suspend negative judgments. And whenever you do experience any negative emotions, repeat some sort of mantra, like thinking is the root cause of suffering, or I let go and choose peace until you're able to regulate your emotions, come back to center.

And then see how you feel. And if it doesn't work, not a problem. You can go and try to find another modality and keep searching until you find that perfect combination of things that works for you. And if it does work, that's amazing. And just prolong the experiment for yourself and see how it goes. But seven days is more than enough for you to be able to see the effects. Joseph, thanks for going through that. So pause, ask yourself, understand, say, and experience.

I wanted to ask you, have you created a workbook that I might be able to share with the audience about this process that I could include in the show notes? So that'll be in, there's a part of a notebook within the expanded edition of the book, which is available on Amazon or most bookstores now in the US. But there is another workbook that I have separately. I think that's called Healing Anxiety and Overthinking, and that's on Amazon as well.

It doesn't, I don't think it goes through the exact pause framework, but it goes through something very similar. I just made it into a pause framework in the expanded edition to make it a little bit simpler and easier for people to remember. Okay. And then lastly, I wanted to take people through a situation. I had a listener contact me yesterday and she had this job that she loved for a person that she loved working for. And unfortunately that relationship became toxic and she lost her job and

Her initial thought was, this is because of me. This is because of my actions. Everyone around me now is going to start judging me. I'm never going to be able to recover from this. It's so unfair. What do I do to take care of my kids, etc. Using your book and your framework, what would be your advice to someone like that who's going through a similar situation?

That's a great question. One of the things that I would say is to really examine what the predominant thinking is. There's a lot of thinking that's going on, right? Like blaming ourselves, blaming the boss, blaming other people. What is the one that feels most visceral? And then we can tackle it from there because it's very difficult when you're swarmed with a thousand different thoughts at the same moment. And then figure out where that comes from. Like, why are you believing this particular thought?

And is that particular thought helping you in this moment? What would happen if you suspended that judgment for a few moments? What would happen to the story? How does the story change if you suspend the judgment? What questions can you ask yourself and the other person to find out something a little bit closer to the truth? Because whenever there's a story, there's multiple sides.

So we only know one side, which is her story right now. We don't know the boss's side. We don't know the co-worker's side or anything. We have no idea. But becoming a lot more curious than fearful or resentful is probably going to help a lot more. That's where I would start and then go through the framework from there and doing some deep breathing. And if there was one last thought of inspiration you would like to leave a listener with or take away from the book that you would like to end this conversation on, what might it be?

I would say be very aware of your judgments, particularly the ones that destroy you most. And actually what I started to realize too, when I started to inquire about my own thoughts is that the judgments that we place on ourselves or even on other people in the world, aren't even our own. It usually comes from other people, mainly our parents, our friends, our coworkers, people we were closest with and the mental chatter that we

say to ourselves that really beat ourselves up and create the suffering, all those things are most likely things that someone has said to us before, and we just replay them in our own minds. So the thoughts that we think are ours aren't even really ours. It's just a broken record that we've been hanging on to for years and years. And as soon as you begin to become aware of that, of what is actually someone else's thoughts and what is mine,

And do I even need to keep any of these things and to believe in them? Then you can start to break some of the shackles and the grip that it has on our lives. And that is very empowering to understand that we don't have to believe everything we think anymore, that we don't have to continually overthink, and that at any moment we have the power to let that go and to come back into our hearts. That is the most powerful.

freeing thing that we can experience. And it doesn't require changing anything external. It actually just requires letting go. We don't even have to change ourselves for that matter. But once we start to have a little bit more compassion for ourselves,

then we inevitably change as a byproduct and shed all these layers and walls that we've been putting up to protect ourselves after all these years. And then a little bit of our own light starts to break through some of those cracks. And that's a source of joy. And that's what I found in my life. And readers have been able to find that for themselves as well. So that's what I would say is to become very cautious of, very skeptical of our own judgments and our own mind.

Joseph, it was such an honor to have you on the show. Congratulations again on the book and the impact that it's having. I've found today to be one of the most inspirational podcasts I've done in a while. So thank you so much.

Thank you so much for saying that, John. It's truly, again, such an honor of being here and thank you for sharing your story and opening up. And I think that created a lot of space for a lot of people to do the same. And they've clearly done so by the person writing to you and things like that. So thank you for all you do and for sharing your light with the world. And that's a wrap. What an incredible conversation with Joseph Nguyen. His insights on how our thoughts shape our reality and the powerful idea that suffering isn't by circumstances,

but by how we think about them are nothing short of transformative. Joseph's journey reminds us that our inner dialogue holds the key to our well-being. It's

It's not about fixing our external circumstances. It's about changing the way we engage with our thoughts. The true path to peace and purpose lies in releasing the need for external validation and instead learning to live from our soul. As we close out today's episode, I invite you to reflect on a few key takeaways. How can you begin to detach your happiness from external circumstances? What would it look like if you stopped chasing success and started chasing alignment with your true self?

And how can you create a space for stillness and reflection in your life to break free from the cycle of overthinking and self-doubt?

If today's episode resonated with you, please take a moment to leave a five-star rating and review. It's one of the best ways to support the show and help us bring these conversations to more people. And if you know someone who could benefit from Joseph's wisdom, share this episode with them. A single conversation has the power to change a life. For all the resources we discussed, including Joseph's book, Don't Believe Everything You Think, visit the show notes at passionstruck.com. And if this mission resonates with you, I'd love to bring it to your stage.

I'm now booking speaking engagements for 2025 and 2026. Visit johnrmiles.com slash speaking to learn how I can support your organization's journey to purpose and performance. You can also join the Ignition Room, subscribe to the Ignited Life newsletter, and catch full video episodes and bonus content on our YouTube channels. Coming up next on Passion Struck, have you ever wondered how vulnerability and authenticity can transform your life and career? Am I...

Upcoming episode, I sit down with the incredible Janet Edley, a leader in personal growth and empowerment to explore how embracing our true selves unlocks extraordinary potential. From overcoming life's toughest challenges to creating meaningful connections and leading with purpose,

Janet's journey is a testament to the power of vulnerability and creating lasting change. I also think that to the degree we are self-absorption, just being so self-absorbed, whereas in the Buddhist teachings that I've studied, and granted, there are different schools that have Buddhism. The one I'm most familiar with is the Tibetan Buddhist teachings. That's all about the intention to benefit others.

And I'm sure you've experienced this. When you have to benefit someone else and you see that joy or you just are aware of how that benefit has been meaningful to somebody else, that gets you. That, I think, serves that purpose that you were saying that people are missing. Until then, live boldly, lead with purpose, and as always, live life passion-struck.