Michelin Star Chefs: Why Food Quality Matters w/ Phillip & Margarita
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Anyone who has success is no different than anyone who doesn't have success in their actual abilities as a human to function on earth. The only major difference is that when faced with a cliff jump, some people don't jump. This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast, and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. ♪

What is up guys? Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Today we have a very exciting episode. We're talking to two chefs. They're actually married. They are business partners and professional chefs. Philip Franklin Lee and Margarita Callis Lee started Scratch Restaurants to bring an immersive and entertaining tasting counter approach to the hospitality industry. They are a husband and wife duo, both in their 30s. They own Sushi by Scratch Restaurants.

Pasta Bar, Austin and LA, Wolf and Wheat, and Not a Damn Chance Burger. They are super prevalent here in Austin. I have been to the Sushi by Scratch restaurants twice now and have had such an amazing experience. It's unlike anything I've ever seen before. And

today we're going to hear from both of them of how they got into cooking, what they think about with their ingredients, how they approach cooking in general. We're also going to hear about how their restaurants really took off when Joe Rogan became a huge fan of them here in Austin. Get ready for us to just fully launch into the conversation. They are such a unique, interesting duo and I learned so much from them. So without further ado, let's hop in and talk about food.

You went on Joe Rogan and he's a fan of your restaurant. So give me the full rundown. I went on his podcast like maybe a year and a half into knowing him. Pandemic happens. We have five restaurants in California pre-pandemic. We're killing it. It's going great. Pandemic happens. Shut everything down. Lay everybody off. Reopen in, I think it was May.

back indoors, then they shut down indoors. You move outdoors and then you can go back. We're in California. So then you can go back indoors. Then you had to go back outdoors. Then come December,

They made it illegal in the state of California to serve indoors or outdoors. I feel like I remember that. So you guys are probably like, what the fuck? Well, also like we didn't want to let everyone, you know, it was in December right before Christmas. It's like, we're not, how are we going to fire anyone? Like we don't want to. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and so we basically said, we went around the room and we said, who is willing to reload? Now, some people were like, I want to go home. I, you know, pandemic, I'm afraid there's nothing wrong with that. I felt, and Margarita felt like we had an obligation to our family. Her dad works for the company. My sister works for the company. My brother works for the company. My other brother works for the company. My other sister works for the company. So,

It truly is a mom and mom and pop shop. But so it, we get to the, um, you know, and we go, look who you don't have to work. It's okay. But who's willing to work. We will find a state that's willing to have us enough hands go up. And we all got on a plane and we all came to Austin and, um, it was very difficult to get the word out because all the local media was not willing to promote any restaurants. Um,

They just, they didn't, the media didn't think restaurants should be allowed to be open, even though Texas said you could. And they especially, like I got emails back, like we're not talking about restaurants and you're not from here. So we're definitely not talking about you. Oh,

I get it. Yeah, but on the other hand, honestly, the first couple weeks that we were here, I mean, all the chefs, everybody just welcomed us in such a beautiful way. I've never experienced that. I had the same experience. I moved here six months ago. I've never felt more welcome somewhere, honestly. So that's the thing. The media didn't want to tell anyone that we were here, but everyone who was here was so incredibly welcoming. Yeah.

So what we ended up doing is we have in, in, in California, in LA, we've, we've been around since 2013 was when we opened our first restaurant and we have, um,

We've been a cult classic. Never been on the... I mean, since Jonathan Gold passed, rest in peace, we've never been back on the 100 best restaurants in LA. Michelin stars sold out every night. We're nowhere near the top 100 for some reason. We've never been media darlings, so to speak. But we have a strong following. So we reached out to our mailing list. That time was like 100,000 people in LA. And we said...

Hey, everyone, as you know, we can't work. We're going to go to Austin. If you have any friends, please tell them to come check us out, support us. And Joe's wife got a that email forwarded to her from one of her friends in L.A. who was one of our, you know,

one of our regulars. And so it does turn out that the very first reservation ever made for the Sushi Bar ATX pop-up was made by his wife. And so it's for like the third week we're open. We're only supposed to be here for five weeks,

Um, the first couple of days we had like no one show up. We did like three people, zero people, five people place only sat six people. And we were only doing, I think two, maybe three seatings a night. So 18 people a day was max by the end of the, by the beginning of the second week.

No, no. By the beginning of the third week, we had sold out the rest of our tenure. Just word of mouth. Was it? Okay. So I was listening to him and it wasn't your episode and this was years ago, but he brought up the name of the restaurant. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay, we're moving to Austin. Like I'm going to go there. Do you think that like played a role in it? Like him just saying the name of it on the show? Yes. Anytime Joe plugs you on the podcast is pretty big deal. You're sold out. It's a salary night.

I want to say it was like January 13th or 14th. Whatever the first, second Saturday in January was 2021 comes in. I know him from fear factor. I didn't, I didn't, I had never watched podcasts. I didn't know. I did not know he was the biggest person. I had no idea what a podcast was because we've been working nonstop for like, I've been head down for 20 years, 20 years, head down, didn't care about anything else. He comes in with his wife. His wife had made the reservations. He's not,

looking to be seen. He's not that kind of public person. He wants to go have a good time, be on a date with his wife. He wants to go home. So he comes, sits down. The way it is at the restaurant, as you know, is you're sitting...

arms length from me. Yeah. Right. And so, and this is, I'm wearing a mask back then I've got gloves on. This is, this is mid pandemic. That was, yeah. And so he's there hat down low, um, you know, just really there on a date with his wife, but as he starts eating and I can see his expressions and he, which he has some pretty good expressions and I, and he's drinking some sake and he starts to engage in conversation with me, you know,

who's the chef here? I am. Where's the Japanese dude? I'm not Japanese. How did you get into sushi? So we start, you know, a conversation and towards the end of it, he said, this really is the best sushi I've ever had in my life. How do I eat this again? And I said, well, we're here for two more weeks. I'd already told him the whole story, why we're here, everything. We're here for two more weeks. Unfortunately, we're sold out. But

But if you want, I can put you on the wait list and I'll make sure you get in if anyone cancels. But otherwise, like you've lived in L.A. for 20 years. Next time you come back, we got restaurants there. He's like, you shouldn't do that. You should close those restaurants and move here. And I'm like, yeah, sure. But I can't do that. I have responsibilities. I have five restaurants. I can't do that. And he goes, no.

Well, if you won't move here, you should at least extend another month. Come on, Philip. You know there's no way – California says three weeks. You know it's going to be three months minimum. And I'm like, yeah, you're probably not wrong. And he's like, I'll tell you what. If you just –

agree to this right now, right now. He said, agree to stay another month. Don't think about it. Just agree. And if you agree, I'll guarantee you're sold out. Oh, because he knew what he was going to do. And I said, well, what do you mean? He goes, look, I'll post about it. And any seats that don't sell, I'll pay for. You're like, I don't even know who you are. Yeah.

I mean, I know the name. I know who he is. But I didn't know about the podcast. I knew about UFC. I wasn't a huge UFC fan, but I've seen it. I know Joe Rogan from UFC. I know him from Fear Factor. But I didn't know the podcast. And that's the biggest platform, right? It's the biggest podcast in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

I might have been a little more nervous had I had, I know. You're like, ah, go back to LA. Like, Hey, I'll give you a call if there's an opening, you know, you're on the wait list. Um, and so, uh, he takes a picture of me.

He says, uh, go, he said, pull out your phone, open it up. The reservation. Now I go, I can't, I got, I still, still got three more courses. So, uh, I go look at midnight tonight. I'll open up for the month of February. How about that? Here's the website. Here's a thing. Here's the Instagram handles. Um, so at midnight I opened up a website on a random Saturday night. Um, nobody, there's no traffic to the website cause his website didn't exist. Um, he posts, he goes on, makes himself four reservations for the month of February. Um,

And then he posts about it. Of course, he makes himself reservations first. Then he posts about it. And within four minutes, February sold out. This is a random, this is at 1230 in the morning on a Saturday night. February sold out. And when we wake up in the morning, there's 25,000 people on the wait list. Oh my God. Yeah. And that's definitely when our lives changed completely. Wow. That's incredible. Marguerite likes to remind me that we are, that that's when we became overnight successes at year 11. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure people do assume that because now when you go to your restaurant, I mean, I was there recently for the grand opening of the downtown location. Some of the people you had there were, I mean, do you know Joshua Weissman? Yeah, of course. Obsessed with him. I saw some amazing people there. Everyone knows of you guys now. It's like, I mean, it's an amazing culinary experience. I think I said to you when I was there, I've never experienced anything like this. It's so...

it's like kind of educational. Like I'm watching you make the rice. I'm watching you make the dessert. I'm watching, I'm hearing about the fish and where it came from. So it really is fantastic. And I'm not surprised that he's such a big fan because it truly, it truly is amazing. Thank you. I thought he was just like shouting it out because he loved it. Well, then he continued to, we were so incredibly moved. We've had other celebrities post about us before.

And never have we had that type of turnout. We'll get someone with 40 million followers. They'll post about it. We'll get eight new reservations, right? We'll get someone with, you know, 90 million followers will post. We'll get a hundred new reservations. He posts, we get 25,000 reservations in matter of minutes. Cause he doesn't talk about just anything. And I feel like he doesn't, he doesn't put out there what he doesn't really, really believe in. And so, but we were so moved that,

Not just by the fact that Joe did that for us, which I mean, he knew what he was doing and we'll be forever grateful. And there's a Christmas present under the tree every year that says Joe on it. He got it two nights ago at the Christmas party, but I haven't missed a birthday since. What we were so moved by is that Austin showed up for us in our darkest hour when California said, you're not welcome here.

you're not allowed to work here. Austin said, we want to see, we want to come check you guys out. So we made it, we made a public statement, maybe like a month in that, like, thank you guys. And we will not, we will now be extending this until every one of you gets into the restaurant because we're not interested in hitting and running. Even when California says we can reopen, we're not.

We'll go reopen those restaurants, but we're not shutting this down because we want to provide you with the thing that you now want. And so literally we just kept every month. We just announced another month, announced another month. I think like what, three months later, we just ended up living here. Well, there was literally a day that we're sitting there. I think we were at dinner and I go,

I think we live in Austin. Pretty sure we're staying. Yeah. I think we live in Austin now. We should probably tell the IRS, you know? Right now. Yeah. That's the first thing you got to do. Register your driver's license. You got to do the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, I agree with you guys. I think Austin is full of amazing people. I think people here love food. There's some great food here. I have a business in California as well. It's not a great place to run a business. I feel like it's a lot more welcoming here. It's a lot easier here.

So yeah, I'm glad you guys came. And now you have how many restaurants in Austin? In Austin? Including the bakery? Pasta bar? Four NADCs. Yeah. Two sushis is six.

One pasta is seven. Wolf and wheat is eight. Yeah. And not a damn chance is in that list. Yeah. Four of those. I haven't been there yet. Isn't that crazy? And I love burgers. So I need to go. You need to go. I'm like, I just heard it's Wagyu and beef tallow. Yeah. Yeah. So we, we work with the, um,

local ranch that does 100% full-blooded Wagyu. So they're actually, the amount of meat, beef we're going through now, they're basically harvesting whole animals specifically just for us. And so it's not like we're getting some factory or commodity. It's like we go through, like they're harvesting, grinding, sending to us fresh meat.

It's got to be called not a damn chance ranch. Not in my accent, but in your accent. I wish I'm trying to talk them into some sort of vertical integration. Yeah. The beef is fantastic. And then we do the, we do the fries in the tallow from the same beef. And we just do in the same way that like,

Her desserts are like perfectly built and the sushi is like, you know, we spend time like just this amount of lemon, just this amount of breadcrumbs, just the burger is the exact same way. And so Neen Williams, who's our partner in NADC, he and I spent almost two years perfecting this burger. And it's just, it's a sub-genre. It's a specific style of burger. But for the sub-genre,

well, actually, as Joe says, there's not a, they don't get better, they get different. You know, at this point, it's, it is, there isn't a, there's not a way to make it better. You can make it different. It's perfection. It's very good.

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Okay, so obviously you're both so passionate about food and ingredients, high quality ingredients. Definitely. How did you get into this field? Like when did you know you wanted to do food? I think I wanted to do food from the moment I was born. I feel like my family, I grew up in Latvia. Not everybody knows where that is. It's in the Baltics. It's between Lithuania and Estonia. Yeah, I just like my earliest memories are

running around my great-grandmother's farm. She had like chickens, cows. She grew sugar snap peas. And literally I was just like hiding in the bushes, like eating all the peas. And she was like, oh my God, like don't eat all of them. Just like save some for us too. But I feel like that's where it started. That's the reason I think she has the best palate of anyone I've ever met because she grew up picking berries and eating peas in the woods. Eating real food. Not at McDonald's.

You know, we all grew up with McDonald's. And so our palates are very different than someone whose palate grew up foraging for things in the woods. Totally. You don't have that fake, like artificial palate. Right. Yeah. But I feel like, so when I moved to America, that definitely...

changed quite a bit because some of the food that was the only food that we could afford like pizza and things like that and then eventually kind of coming out of that I in middle school was just reading cookbooks and just like you were which is so funny we're very aligned and

And just making little treats for my friends. And I was very much focused on more of the baking side. I made like Rice Krispies treats. I made like, you know, biscotti. I don't know. It was very random. Although the day I decided I was going to marry her, which was the first night I spent the night at her house.

she made me the most the most perfect eggs florentine for breakfast better than any i'd ever had in my life and that's what i knew that's what i knew yeah this is my wife i mean that's a tough dish to make for my i mean from my perspective yeah yeah and then so baking specifically i mean that's would you say that's like super different to cooking because it's such a science i think that

I think that the way that I cook, because I learned to cook as a savory chef, I feel like. I don't really, I mean, the principles, like certain principles, of course, like you have to implement them. But I feel like with just my mindset when it comes to building flavors and building dishes is important.

very different from just the standard, like, you know, this is the way that we make a chocolate cake. The average, there was a reason that 90% of restaurants have the same or similar desserts. And that's because

Pastry chefs, unlike savory chefs, are always classically trained because you can't go and wing pastries. You have to go and you learn. And this is how you make a creme anglaise. This is how you make a sponge cake. But Marguerite didn't do that. She just innately is able to somehow learn.

And that's why her desserts aren't like everybody else's desserts. Yeah, you have these unique ingredients and flavors. I was looking at your... I know, they're so good. Yeah, Wolf and Wheat, right? The bakery in Austin, you have like matcha flavor, matcha powder and beautiful flavors. Yeah, I love to... I think a lot of... When I kind of... When I taste things, that's when it inspires what it's going to be. And...

And, um, I mean, and that's just how, yeah, that's how I create things. Like, I'm like, oh, wow. Roasted buckwheat tea. Yeah. That makes sense. Like that would be an incredible finish because, you know, um, in, in certain cultures, roasted buckwheat tea is what you eat or what you drink at the end of the meal. So, um, so yeah, so that's kind of, you know, like I'm,

I it's like when I eat something or try something, it's basically like it's just popcorn just popping all over in my brain. And that's when I'm like, oh, yeah, that and that and that and that. Yeah. So because you didn't train under someone necessarily, you almost have the freedom in your mind to kind of get creative and go to places that maybe someone who was traditionally or classically trained wouldn't.

I feel that way, yeah, for sure. I'm very grateful because Philip was the one that told me not to go to culinary school. Did you go? I did for a few months, but then I dropped out. No way. So you didn't train under anyone either? Well, I did. I trained for about nine years under several fantastic real chefs.

Um, and so I, I, I started working, my, my godmother owned a catering company. And so I'm a high school dropout. I was a drummer in a punk band and was, that's what I dropped out of high school to do is just go live on the road and in between. But I was obsessed with food, um, and obsessed with cooking. And so I, um,

I was sick of working at Jamba Juice and Baskin Robbins. So I go on tour, come back, have a little meaningless job. And so I wanted to cook. And so I went to my godmother and asked if I could work for her. She introduced me to her chef. Her chef interviewed me, had me make family meal as my interview, and then said, I can offer you a job as a dishwasher. So I started as a dishwasher when I was 18.

And I spent several years just working my way up from dishwasher, go on tour, come back, prep cook, go on tour, come back, line cook, go on tour, come back, line cook. Maybe I should start taking this seriously. Maybe I, and then I quit all my bands and, um,

enrolled in culinary school and quickly learned that it was just a complete, in my opinion, a complete sham. It was not worth $100, let alone $50,000. And so I dropped out of culinary school and I worked in, over the next nine years or so, I worked in several one, two, three Michelin star kitchens and that's where I learned how to cook,

And I think it was at year nine or so that we opened back in 2013. We opened our first restaurant as chef owners. But it was 2010, maybe 11, that Margarita became my pastry chef officially for the first time. And the way that she did, I really like this story. I got hired as the executive chef

Of the restaurant and they didn't have a pastry chef. So I was going to be doing all the dessert menu. And at this point, Margarita is a fantastic, like she, she can, everything she touches is unbelievably delicious, but it wasn't what she was doing full time professionally. And so I write a menu for desserts and,

And she laughs at it. Okay. Not necessarily a laugh. I was just like, all right, well, that sounds cool. She didn't think it was very good. Okay. And so I said, well, if you think you can do it better, you should do it. And so she did. I was like, you're on. And so she wrote a new menu and she made all the desserts. And I said, you...

Now you work here. You got the job. Yeah. The way that I cook is very improvisational and intuitive. And so just by osmosis...

She's incredibly intuitive and improvisational, but somehow able to just make like the best things. So Margarita, tell us about the dessert experience that you have curated. We so we have about four different desserts on the menu at Pasta Bar. Pasta Bar L.A.,

So we start with, we do the same sourdough in LA as we do in Austin. So we do Okinawa brown sugar caramel with Sobacha ice cream. We have crunchy puffed rice. I make Tonka bean, like almost like a little marshmallow.

Table side, what we do, we take like a hot bean chiton coal and torch the marshmallow like right in front of you. So it's like almost like a little like Japanese sundae and pasta bar Austin. I do a caviar ice cream sandwich. So I make like a smoked banana ice cream with a brown butter brioche cookie. And then we finish that with golden esoteric caviar. And we do, we have like a little jewelry box where we have little chocolate bars

the bonbons, little, just little menardes for you to just like snack on, have a couple drinks, relax. And what I think is really cool about like, so people, people think it's called pasta bar. So they think it's an Italian restaurant. And in a way it is, but not, but it's not just like our sushi by scratch restaurants, not a Japanese restaurant, it's a sushi restaurant.

Pasta bar is a pasta restaurant. Now, obviously we're using Italian techniques and we're using Italian approach. The one thing that has always struck me about Italian cuisine, very similar to Japanese in this way, is that Italian cuisine is incredibly regional, meaning you only really use the ingredients and the sensibilities of your region. So once again, the idea is like,

We're not going to import everything. We're going to use the sensibilities in the region and treat Los Angeles or Austin as the region of Italy. So like, you know, she's talking about very Japanese-signed dessert in perhaps one of the most Japanese-populated cities. Los Angeles is incredibly Japanese-inspired, and a lot of the food when you're growing up in the, you know, late 80s, early 90s is Japanese. And so...

If you're making Italian food in LA, almost by default is supposed to have some Japanese influence on it because that's the sensibilities. And then you talk about Austin using oaks, smoking things with oak. Smoking things with oak. I also go to this incredible urban farm called House Bar Farms. So they grow, they have like fresh eggs. They grow unbelievably beautiful herbs.

Um, that's where I get my fig leaves from. I use fig leaves religiously. It's like literally my favorite ingredient, um, fig leaves. And right now I just put a dessert on menu at pasta bar here in Austin, um, based on all the beautiful mints and basil that they have in the garden. So we make a basil and mint, uh, semi-freddo, but like orange mint, which is like a, a, a

like such a beautiful variety of mint. Um, and then we do Thai basil, just regular Italian basil, infuse that. And then I make a blackcurrant granita with a little bit of passion fruit. So you get like a little crunch. Um, cause you know, you kind of, the way that I build dishes, you want to get like a little crunch, a little cold, a little creamy. And, um, and then we, yeah, so we finish it with, uh,

also the local basil blossoms. And so, yeah, that's like a little almost like a palate cleanser. So now that you guys I think you have 15 restaurants total or is that higher now?

24 as of this 20. Okay, 24. And then it's become this giant business, all of your family's involved. I can't even imagine the admin of having this many restaurants. How do you keep your passion and creativity for the actual craft that you got into this for? Well, it has, I feel like it has a lot to do with, like, my mental state, like,

How, you know, what my surroundings are, like, where am I placing myself? How am I taking care of myself? Because, you know, it's very it's very easy to get caught up and like overly stressed, overly stimulated. You know, we also have a two and a half year old. So, you know, you get pulled in so many different directions. So I feel like when I'm the most clear and like have that inspiration, like I'm not I'm

drinking and I like barely drink I drink wine you know like that's my big outing um like and when I'm not drinking I'm eating incredibly healthy so at home I actually make like oxtail bone broth with like ginger and onion and literally that's what we eat all day or all day all week I'm like like a big stock that's what we um that's what our daughter eats healthy state of mind

healthy food and yeah, just like that. That's what makes me clear. And that's when I'm like, oh yeah, oh my God. And then

like I feel unstoppable when I'm just like in that perfect like clear state I think wellness is such a huge part of that and creating a balance where you can still pour into the things you want to do because I feel like it's so easy to get lost in the in the noise of it all when you have a business and you forget why you love it and why you started it I mean even you know with our company here at bloom like Greg and I we work together too my husband's the CEO and um

it was a lot for many years. It was all we talked about. It was all we did. And we're finally at a point where we can have some time, you know, to focus on other things, but it takes a long time to get there. How do you, Philip, focus on your love for cooking at the same time? Well, I mean, I definitely could go the same sort of wellness route with the answer, but I think she speaks a little bit for the both of us. Um, so, I mean, I think that, uh,

We were at dinner with our friends last night, and we were talking about this very thing. Yeah. And it is, a buddy of ours asked, how do you, he's like, I know there's business people and there's chefs, and very rarely are they the same person. There's usually a chef who's creative and a business person who is running the business. And not just for chef, that could be for any artist, right?

Has usually someone who monetize the artist while the artist can focus on art. But through just trial and error and living...

just through some huge life lessons. I mean, Margie and I own 100% of our restaurants. So Neen Williams owns 50% of NAC, but her and I don't have any business partners and we don't have any investors. And so I have been forced over the last 13 years to be able to wear both hats simultaneously. And for a few years, I found it incredibly difficult because when we started, we started...

our first restaurant in a coffee shop. We moved it to our one bedroom apartment

Uh, we moved it from the one bedroom apartment to an actual restaurant space where, uh, there was a guy who approached us and said, I own a restaurant space. If you want to go 50 50, you can move your restaurant from your apartment and do into the, and this was, this was on restaurant road, La Cienega, you know, in Los Angeles, I shared, I shared a tandem parking spot with Nobu Masuhisa. You know, I mean, this is like the best location you can have a restaurant in LA.

And so, you know, he was going to run the business and I was going to be the chef and she was gonna be the pastry chef. And, um, we just learned quickly through if you're not okay losing, then you just never lose is kind of the idea. But we went through a lot with him specifically, a lot of the money disappeared. He disappeared. I was 25. So I didn't realize that I had personally guaranteed everything in the, in the business yet. I had no ownership because all the paperwork I had filled out was

had never been turned in to add me to all the accounts. There was a long time where it was like very difficult to,

I had to take, I had, was forced to take over the business side. And as soon as you are dealing with the business side and you realizing the money and the, it's, it's very difficult to even want to be creative because now you start looking at your, you were looking at your cooks, like they're in your band and they're your brothers. And now you're looking at your cooks, like they're going to put you out of business. Yeah. Their salaries. And now everything's a number.

And when you're looking, when you're viewing the world in numbers, it's very difficult to be creative. And so I went through a couple of years of like not being able to really

be creative or do it for the right reasons. But that was well over a decade ago. So at this point now, I'm able to really focus on the business and focus on the art. And what I've learned when I taught myself was you can't survive as a starving artist, right? So if you're making art that you think is incredible, but you can't sell it, you will eventually die of starvation. So

Figure out how to make art that people not only are willing to buy, but want to get in line to buy and make sure that that art is still as important to you as the art that you were starving making. Right. So I was able to find a symbiotic relationship between feeling very integral about selling the art while also being really inspired to make the art for the purpose of selling it.

It's a tough line to balance. And I feel lucky in my relationship with my husband because he really is the business guy. He looks at the numbers. I couldn't care less. Truly, I cannot look at numbers. I don't want to talk about numbers. I want to be here. I want to be having conversations. I want to be talking about branding and labels and creativity. My brain doesn't think that way. So I relate in so many ways. And I feel like any time, you know, at the beginning of our business, I was super duper involved and it made it difficult for me.

to keep creating at the same time because when your brain is being split a million directions, it's like, how do you show up?

and give your most creative self when you're like stressed behind the scenes. Well, I mean, no one's good at anything until they practice it a lot. And I think that's what you were talking about earlier too. It's like building up the thick skin. That's what I feel like now it's, you know, after so many years of like having to deal with very, very, very difficult, like just excruciating circumstances. I think like,

Now like certain stresses, you know, we can kind of okay like let's work through it But also be present at what we're doing like what's in front of us I had no idea that I was ever gonna be the business side as well But it just you know You you learn you learn a new thing and you just if as long as you don't give up and go home You'll eventually get good at it

And you'll eventually learn how to enjoy it. And I guess it's almost a blessing in a way that that... It's 100% a blessing. That guy screwed you because now you guys are 100% owners. Clearly, it's working for you. It's become a family business. And if anything, you have more control. And everything is like the way that you want it. And clearly, it's working. And we've went through three or four different iterations of having partners before. So we didn't get... We started as 100%. Back in 2013, we sold 50%.

to open up in that space. And then that...

went under. We then reopened the restaurant because we owned the rights to the name. We then reopened the restaurants with a new 50% partner who then years later sold half of his shares to someone else who then eventually bought him out fully, who then eventually sold half of his shares to someone else who then, you know, and then eventually we actually, a year after we became permanent with Sushi Bar ATX, we, a private equity firm,

uh, bought that restaurant from us. Um, and we were able to turn around and buy out all of our partners and all of our California restaurants. So we went from being 50%, a hundred percent to 50% of now five restaurants to a hundred percent of four restaurants. And so at the time we had sushi bar, LA sushi bar, Montecito, um, uh, which had a Michelin, it was, has a Michelin, had and has a Michelin star. Um, and then, uh,

we had another location in Los Angeles as well for sushi. We had pasta bar, Chad, a Michelin star. Um, and, uh, so the idea was these guys were going to buy this location in Austin, uh,

Here's the playbook. They're allowed to run it, allowed to do whatever they want. And we would run Sushi Bar LA, the second sushi bar in Los Angeles and Sushi Bar Montecito. They would run this one. And then very quickly we learned that

we were going to need to distance ourselves. Uh, we didn't want people dining. Uh, they had the right to change everything and they had the right to use everything. Uh, and we didn't, we didn't want people to dine there and think that was a representation of our restaurants. Um, it, that became pretty clear pretty quickly to us. And, um,

It was disappointing, but what we ended up doing is we then changed the name of all of our sushi bars to Sushi by Scratch Restaurants. Scratch Restaurants is our group. So it was always Sushi Bar, a Scratch Restaurants concept. Pasta Bar, a Scratch Restaurants concept. Now it's Sushi by...

by scratch restaurants. Where does by scratch come from? Like, why did you want to go with that name? Our first restaurant was called scratch bar. Okay. And the reason was there was really two things that we knew we were going to do before we named the restaurant. We were only going to have seating at the bar and we were going to only serve what we make from scratch. So if we wanted to, uh, have prosciutto, I would have to buy a pig and I would have to break it down myself and

And I would have to cure it and I'd have to wait two and a half years. And that's what we did. That's when we had to shoot on the menu. If I wanted Parmesan on the menu, I had to start with milk and I had to wait nine months before I could serve Parmesan. I'm very, I have like a weird thing about being literal. Like I have a weird, like I have trouble understanding things because I'm so incredibly literal. And so I looked up the definition of what a restaurant is.

And the definition of a restaurant is a place where people pay money to sit on premise to eat food that was made on premise. And so quite literally, that means that if I buy someone else's cream cheese and I buy someone else's bagels and I buy someone else's cured salmon and I make it for you at my place and you pay for it, it's not a restaurant, it's a delicatessen by definition. Not my definition, but...

And there's nothing wrong with restaurants that don't make everything from scratch. It's not, it's not, that's just, that's what I get off on. That's what we get off on is,

if we're gonna do it we're gonna do it a thousand percent i feel like it also really i mean obviously we talk about wellness a lot on this show and i feel like it really ties it i mean it's like good ingredients it's good food like you guys really care about where it's coming from you care about the quality of it have you always been like that or is this something like is it tied into the way you live your life too definitely for me yeah she always has i mean i didn't know i mean i

I've been cooking with canola oil for 20 years. I've been cooking with the things that you cook with. Now, I never got into all like the, like I never got into using all like the different chemicals and I don't like xanthan gum and I don't like all, it's funny that like,

A lot of fine dining shares a lot of ingredients with like manufactured candy. Like the foam and stuff? Yeah. Oh, what's foam made of? Well, that's soy lecithin. So that's not really what's found in candy. That's more found in health food. So I do use soy lecithin. I was less about doing it because it was chemically. I was more about doing it because I didn't want to have a magic powder that turned it into something. I wanted to figure out how do you create that yourself? So I worked in a lot of restaurants where I learned

how to use those applications properly. And then decided that in my restaurant, I was not going to use any of them. But I was still gonna try to make cuisine at the same level. I've always just been a thing about, I like natural. I don't like heavy sauces. I don't like, I've never been someone who like

has like crazy spice blends and my chicken doesn't taste like curry. I like chicken to taste like chicken. I like cauliflower to taste like cauliflower, but I want it to be the deepest, most unctuous, most delicious cauliflower you ever had in your life. And there's certain techniques you can do to make your cauliflower. You can turn the volume up to 20. Oh,

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Do a lot of chefs care about health or is it kind of like an unhealthy industry? I mean, I feel like now there's a lot more awareness about... There's a sea change in the industry all around. Yeah. Do they drink a lot? Yeah. Really? Like drinking is a big part of like hospitality in general. Yeah. Drinking is a big part.

Drugs are a big part. I mean, we were lucky enough to not be involved with any of the drug part, drinking part. Yes, for sure. Why is chefs like, I feel like that's the reputation. It's not. So I don't think it's a symptom or, or, or a by-product of working in the kitchen. I think of the type of person who wants to work 18 hours in the heat and

oftentimes burning and cutting themselves is the same person who likes other extreme type of things. So it's not like to be a rock star, you have to drink and do drugs. No, it's the same person who wants to live in a van with a group of friends and drive around the country eight months out of the year

is the same type of person who wants to party. Yeah, you got to be a little unhinged. Yes, so that's really where it stems from. But there is a big seed change. I mean, since we started, we've had a rule, just no drinking. Not since we started. We used to drink at the restaurant. When we really started. And we encouraged everyone to drink at the restaurant. We had a restaurant called the Silver Bow. Part of the experience was after dinner was over, I'd pull out this silver platter

of all of these different cognacs and aged this and whiskeys and beer and everything. And we would say, y'all don't have to go home. Y'all don't have to stay here, but if you would like, we would love to have a drink with you. Now this restaurant was in a hotel, so people were getting trashed, but luckily there was never, no one ever got hurt. But as we started having more and more restaurants, we started having instances where I'd come in the next day

The kitchen was still dirty and the team was passed out. They had not gone home. They had not finished cleaning. Now we have a hardcore zero tolerance. You do not drink at the restaurant unless it's offered to you by me. And that's usually like on an opening night or something like that, but not normally. No, we'll take, we'll all go out afterwards and we'll get fucked up if you want, but not at the restaurant. Because on two separate occasions, it's,

I have had to fire head chefs for fist fighting each other in front of guests. Oh my God. Yeah. I know. And I'm sure you have so many stories like that. Like I feel like hospitality is wild. If you had to guess the common denominator, it's,

it's alcohol. Yeah. But we also, I mean, for us, it's so important to take care of our team. And, you know, now after regaining 100% ownership of our company, we, you know, we have paternity leave, maternity leave. We have special resources for anything you need. Everyone in the company has a 401k with a 5% match. Everyone's got benefits. Yeah. I feel like I haven't heard of that before.

That's amazing. And we've never really, I mean, I guess we are telling people right now, but we've been doing it for years and we don't do it. We do it for three years exactly because the day we bought out our partners is the day that we just decided that the 50, if we started getting their 50% of the profits, I didn't ever want to touch that money because the second you touch that money,

I would have, I would not want to give it away. So I decided that, you know what, who's been my real partners this whole time, my real partners were the guys and the girls working their ass off every day. So that 50% that we just got back is going to go to compensation packages. And, um, you know, I've all, I've always had this philosophy that I wouldn't buy, uh,

you know, a Mercedes until my staff was driving BMWs. And I wouldn't drive a Porsche until my staff was driving Mercedes. And I won't buy a Ferrari until my staff is driving Porsches. You know, they've got to have it before I get to have it.

And a discrepancy of me with a private jet and them with the Pinto isn't possible. I don't like that. Yeah, I think that's really respectable. To take care of your team should come first, 100%. Because that's going to keep you growing at the end of the day, right? And get you where you need to go.

So, Michelin stars. I know you guys have a couple floating around. What is the process of getting a Michelin star? Like, what boxes? No idea. Yeah, I wish I knew. What do you mean? It's a secret? It's 100% a secret. And God damn it, it's an annoying secret. So, you're just like throwing things at the wall, seeing what sticks. No, okay. So, all right. So...

What does it take to get a star? I have a pretty good idea. How, what is the process of getting one? Don't know. What does it take? There is, it's not formulaic, but there is a level. And I spent all of my formative years in one, two, three Michelin star kitchens. And it is a holistic approach. When you say to another cook, well, 10 years ago, not so much anymore, you know,

I want this kitchen organized like a Michelin star kitchen. That means something. That means that when you're going to label something, you use scissors to cut the tape. Everything is written legibly. Everything is in see-through matching containers. Everything is, you could eat off the floor in the kitchen, right? There was a, there was a mean. And typically if you're, if you were doing that, you also cared about what was going on the plate and,

And at that level, that whole holistic approach usually garnered you a Michelin star. I mean, the way that it works is you try to be the best and you put your fucking head down. And every day you remind yourself and you remind your team that every single guest who comes in tonight is a Michelin inspector. And every single guest is a VIP. And every single guest is going to get the best thing we're capable of giving no matter what, every time. And if you do that for enough years,

and they hear about you and pay attention, they'll come in. You won't ever know. I promise you, you won't ever know. And you will, it used to be that you would get a phone call. It was a famous phone call. The day before the Michelin Guide would come out, everybody's waiting by their phones to see if they would get a phone call to say congratulations. And so in 2019,

We did not get Michelin stars, but we were invited to the Michelin gala and we were, we were awarded Michelin plates for two of our restaurants. A plate is a, as a recommendation, it goes plates, then Bib Gourmands, then one star, two star, three star. In 2020, we get an email saying, can we have Phillip's phone number? A week and a half later, Michelin announces that they have been bullied out of doing a Michelin guide this year in California and

They're doing in other places, but California has called them insensitive because there's a pandemic. What? So they cancel the, yeah, a lot of awards ceremonies. That annoys me so much. It's fucking ridiculous. It's crazy. But then 2021 rolls around and they reach out and they say, um, we're doing a virtual one this year and we would like to come and interview you, uh, and, and Margarita, uh,

Uh, and Lennon Lennon's is, is my brother, um, blood brother who, uh, um,

was the head chef at Montecito at the time. We want to interview the three of you and Chef Nate, who was the head chef at Pasta Barn LA at the time. I want to interview the four of you to talk to you guys about what it's been like to run restaurants during the pandemic. And I said, I'm in Austin. I can come back. I'll fly back. Tell me when. They said, no, no, no, don't fly. Zoom in. It's not a big deal. You're not getting a star. We're just, don't get your hopes up.

I said, okay, I'll zoom in. So Margarita happened to be in town. So Margarita, Lennon, and Nate are all at the restaurant. They're all staying next to each other and they put a little bar stool with me on a laptop. So they're filming us, right? And I'm a laptop. And they're asking us questions. What was it like? How did you, what did you learn? You know, what was the hardest thing? And then they say, and we have one last question for you. There's somebody on the phone who wants to ask you a question.

And so I was like, that's weird. Yeah. And so someone on the phone and so they hold up the phone. I can't hear what's being said because there's pandemonium now. And one of the producers comes and says, congratulations, chef. You've been awarded a Michelin star. And I said, which which restaurant?

And she said, both of them. And I just broke down and started crying. I'm sitting in my house in Austin and my wife and my brother are

and chef nate who i i should be hugging and crying with them and i'm alone and they're all together and um i mean it was it was amazing yeah it was it was uh they didn't even use the footage of me crying imagine that yeah i cried for no reason i gave them absolute solid gold now i'm kidding i gave you everything i had but no idea no idea why we got the stars no idea why at that point we had four restaurants and to be honest and i've told this to them before the michelin guy before i said

We're honored, but we're so surprised. We had two restaurants we thought were shoe-ins.

And you gave the stars to the two restaurants we didn't think were ready. They're brand new. We didn't think they're ready. What are the two that you thought were going to get them? Scratch Bar and the original sushi. So both of those had gotten plates the year prior, the two years prior. And both of those were in existence the year they asked for my phone number. And now there's two new restaurants that both get stars and these ones don't get anything. So Pasta Bar got one. What was the other one? Yeah.

Sushi Montecito. You know, you hear all these like things from the movies and stuff where you drop the fork on the floor and then all of a sudden someone's there or you recognize the Michelin person because they have a certain shirt on. So that's, none of that's true. No. Well,

I don't want to say it's not true, but well, first of all, we don't have forks at our restaurant, so it'd be hard to do. Pasta bar does have forks. That's true. We use utensils. Is all the pasta there, is it sourdough pasta? No, no, no. She makes a sourdough. I make sourdough. The pasta's not made from sourdough. Got it. Okay, so yeah, I heard you have 58-year-old sourdough starter. I do. At your house. I have one in my freezer as backup in case anything happens to my baby. Okay.

But yeah, we actually got it when we first started. Our first pop-up ever. It was gifted to opening day of Scratch Bar in 2012? Yeah. 12 or 13. Yeah.

Opening day, gentleman walks in and says, welcome to the neighborhood. I read all about it. I have a reservation tonight. I'm very excited. I heard you guys are making everything from scratch. He said, my grandmother left me her starter when she passed. It's from Italy. It's like 45 years old, something like that. And it's just been in my freezer for years. I don't know what to do with it. I read about it and I felt inspired to gift this to you guys.

Margarita has been now nursing that back to health. It took probably about six or seven years to really get good. Six or seven years. Well, it took me eight years to actually create...

finalized the recipe for the sourdough literally like did he give it to you in that in the powder form in the dry form no he literally gave you a job it was a we call them a deli cup it's like the big plastic container yeah okay i can't even keep mine alive for a week mine goes moldy all the time

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Talk to her. Yeah, you have a 58-year-old salad. I read that and I was like, I have to ask her some questions because I can't even keep it alive a week. Okay, we'll definitely send you. How often do you feed it? We feed it five days a week. Do you bring it with you when you travel? No.

now we have restaurants and we have staff yeah in terms of ingredient sourcing like when i was at the restaurant you were talking about sourcing fish from japan and there's things from all over the place how do you how do you do that so i i work with a broker uh who has a spot at the toyo su fish market um and that's the same company i've been working with for about 10 years and so at this point well for many years now

any of my chefs in any restaurant, we pick up the phone and you call, usually we text and we say, this is what we want. They already know the quality level. They already know what I'm looking for. And if something's not available at the market, they'll say, I don't have this snapper, but I have this snapper. And so all the fish from Japan are

arrives Tuesdays and Thursdays to LAX via JAL, Japan Airlines. And then from LAX, it goes to the rest of the country. - Okay, how much is a whole tuna? - This last week, I bought a 90 pound quarter of tuna

That was $4,000? 90 pounds for $4,000. I knew it was crazy price. $3,500, somewhere about that. About 40 bucks a pound, 35 bucks a pound. Okay. Have you guys ever been to that fish market? Yeah. Is it crazy? Oh my God, we saw the auction. So we went to Japan last year for about, what, we were there for a month and a half, two months? I was there for a month and a half. I think you were there for a month. Yeah. And yeah, we woke up at like four in the morning, jet lagged the shit. Which by the way-

this is what everyone who's going to go to Japan and wants to go to the fish market. You will naturally wake up at 4 a.m. your first couple of days there. Oh, so just go. So go in the beginning. Yeah, yeah, just go. Don't adjust and then start waking up at 4 a.m. Smart. Okay, smart. Go like land and then go the next morning because you wake up at 4 a.m. Right, okay, smart. And is it craziness? People just yelling? There's a lot of yelling. You can't buy anything at the auction. No, you can't. It's an auction thing.

for it's being all the fish is being sold to the fish mongers are getting at that point. But it's such a like it's such a cool experience just like watching all of that. And where you stand now you're behind a glass wall and they have they have microphones in on the floor and then speakers in there so you can hear but they control the volume. Did you guys get a ton of inspiration when you were there? Yeah. For desserts and stuff too? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The way that I'm doing Toro now

I've been aging my – I've been dry aging my akami, the red tuna, the lean part for probably eight years now. But I always serve toro fresh. I never wanted aged toro. And when we were in Japan, we were invited to take over a really famous little seven-seat sushi bar. And I was able to, for the first time, make my sushi fresh.

in Tokyo for pretty much a completely non-English speaking clientele. I show up to start prepping a couple of days early and the chef goes, okay, I got you this. I got you this. I got you this. He goes, um, I'm seven seats. I'm doing two seatings on two nights. So for, so 28 people, he's like, I'm not going to buy you a whole side of tuna. He's like, but I've been aging this one for you for two weeks. And I was like, in my mind, I'm like, no, but the second my knife, uh,

goes into that tuna. I almost got goosebumps just the way that it felt. I've been cutting tuna for 15 years, but the way that the knife entered in, the level of tackiness of the oil, I was like...

this is special. And I took a bite of it and went, oh my goodness. I mean, that tackiness was definitely there. Like I've never had aged Toro before. It was really cool. You guys have a lot of unique flavors, I feel like. And a lot of things I've never had. The dessert was incredible. Remind me what the dessert was called again.

So it was a tonka bean custard with yuzu and passion fruit granita. And then I do fresh passion fruit seeds. And then we finish it with shiso blossoms and Thai basil leaves. It was insane. Everyone was like looking at each other. What was that? It was wild. Thank you. It sucks because every restaurant we've ever had, I usually get like 15, 16 tries for best dish. And then the first dessert gets served. Well, I got to make it fucking good. Every time. Every time.

She was her moment. Every time people are freaking out about dinner and then we get to dessert and they go, I don't even remember what I had for dinner. No, every moment was special. I actually brought my friend Taylor with me because she loves food. She actually is an aspiring chef. And when we heard about the grand opening, I was like, I got to bring Taylor. She's going to love it. And she was obsessed. She had such a good time. You must have regulars all the time, right? Yeah. We've probably got about two dozen people who've clocked over 100 visits. Wow. We have people who...

to every single, I know if we're opening a new restaurant that within week one, I'm going to have these five couples are going to have traveled to this city solely for the opening. You said Josh was in the room. Josh was after me. When I was leaving, I saw him. Got it. Got it. Okay. I'm such a big fan of his YouTube channel. Yeah. He's, he's, he's awesome. Yeah. He's a funny guy. He just, he actually just did our podcast with us. No way.

Okay, wait, podcast is called Not a Damn Chance. Not a Damn Chance. Love it. Yeah. And the idea is that we're just really sitting down with people who are at the top of their field. What we really want to know about is the mindset and not the mindset on how do I work hard? How do you deal with

with debilitating circumstances? How did I pull myself together and say, fuck you world. There's not a damn chance that you're going to take me out. I'm going to win. That mindset is what Nina and my whole thing is about. And so our, we want to sit down with people and ask, like learn about those moments because I feel like all anyone who has success,

is no different than anyone who doesn't have success in their actual abilities as a human to function on Earth. The only major difference is that when faced with a cliff jump, some people don't jump. And of the people who jump and they break every bone in their body,

Some people then jump again. And it's those people who are at the top, top, top. I so agree with you on that, by the way. I mean, my whole career is based on the worst moment of my life. You know, I lost 90 pounds and I went through so much in 2017 and it got me here. Like if I didn't go through that-

And continue pushing and say, I'm going to turn this around. I wouldn't be here right now. So I love that concept. I think that's amazing. Okay. I have to ask before we go, what are your favorite restaurants in the world outside of your own world? My favorite restaurant is probably central.

Where's that? In Peru. Margarita, what's your favorite restaurant? I think it has to be Sushi Sakura in Kyoto. Last year we went there. That's up there. That is very much up there. It's, it was honestly, that was the most magical sushi experience I've ever had. It's,

It's unbelievably beautiful. The counter where you sit. So they have a beautiful garden. They have a huge window. Imagine you're sitting here and this whole wall right here is their backyard. It's glass. Unbelievable garden. And it's just the most beautiful like zen garden.

like manicured to a T with little streams and fountains and things and unreal. And it's beautifully lit. And the chef, you know how I make the sushi and I put it in front of you? He makes a sushi and then he puts his hand out and you reach over and take it out of his hand. So it was the husband and wife. Was it their son? Yeah, and their son was in the kitchen and it was just... It was just one dude? Yeah. But now we're bonding.

And bonding is such a big part of why restaurants are, can be so great. And really what we want to try to offer in our restaurants, many times guests by the, by the time they leave or by the time they leave their second time, they're coming behind the counter. They're getting a hug from, from the team. Like it's, it really is supposed to be like that every night at the restaurant. Um, anytime anyone's like, I'm going to Japan, I'm like,

My favorite sushi restaurant in Japan is in Kyoto called Sushi Sakura. Totally. No, those are the best meals when you have that insane memory and you're connecting with people in different countries. I...

I think that's amazing. Guys, thank you so much. This was incredible. We've never had chefs or restaurant owners on the show. So it was such an honor to sit with you. Can you just tell everyone where they can find you, your restaurants, anything they should know? You can follow at Philip Franklin Lee or at Margarita Callas Lee. Both of us link to all of our restaurants, but also it's at Sushi by Scratch Restaurants.

We are not involved with Sushi Bar at Pasta Bar LA, at Pasta Bar Austin, at NADC Burger, at Wolf and Wheat. But if you really want to find us, come to our restaurant. I will put a link in the description box of this episode if you guys want to go book with any of these restaurants. As I said, truly a magical culinary experience, unlike anything I've ever done. You guys are amazing. You're both so talented, so creative, and I'm so glad we met. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having us.

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