Mixtape: Dakou
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在1980年代，中国绝大多数人从未听过西方音乐，除了约翰·丹佛、卡朋特乐队和一些其他被共产党挑选的歌曲。但在90年代末，一位名叫叶教授的神秘人物在和平的一个塑料回收中心发现了一些东西。在《Mixtape》的第一集中，我们与中国历史学家、音乐评论家以及那些将受损的西方音乐塑料碎片转变为中国音乐新景观的音乐家们进行了交谈，他们以我们从未想象过的方式重新构想了摇滚乐。

这一集的实现离不开他们每一个人。 通过访问Radiolab.org/donate，今天就成为Radiolab的会员来支持我们。</context> <raw_text>0 Radio Lab is supported by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call the shots on your auto insurance too with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive. It works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget.

Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. When raising a Pacifico beer with friends you just met turns into hitting up their friend's local art show, getting inspired to create something together, and painting your first mural, you found what was waiting for you.

Pacifico. Life's waiting. 21 plus only. Discover responsibly. Pacifico Clara Beer. Imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois. Listener supported. WNYC Studios. Wait, you're listening? Okay. Alright. Okay. Alright. You're listening to Radiolab. Radiolab. From WNYC. WNYC.

Hello, I'm Akio Morita and I have been Sony's chairman and chief executive officer for the last 10 years. Before handing you over to our narrator, I would like to offer human beings use or abuse technologies. And it is in our mind and hearts that the future will be decided. And now, here is our narrator telling my story

I'm Simon Adler. And I'm Jad Abumrad. This is Radiolab.

Truth be told, I don't even know if this is the way to start, but let's just jump in, I guess. Yeah, take it for a spin. All right, so I've got a short story for you about a piece of technology we don't think about much today, and how one morning it tore a small hole in the time-space continuum. According to the memoir, it's only for listening to music on headphones.

This is Noriko Ishigaki. And whose memoir are you reading from there? Yasuo Kuroki. Okay. She's a Japanese to English translator as well as a longtime friend.

And she says that on the morning of June 22nd, 1979, in Yoyogi Park... One of the biggest parks in Tokyo, magazine reporters and editors are gathered. Maybe a dozen or so alongside some press people...

from the Sony Corporation. Okay. And Sony has gathered this gaggle of journalists there to sort of unveil this new product for them. A product called Walkman. The Sony Walkman. Oh, yes. Now, these reporters had very little idea what exactly to expect or even...

or even what this Walkman was. Until the product leader carefully hands each reporter the Walkman. With a cassette inside it already. Okay. Did you have a Walkman, Chad? Yeah. Oh my God, yes. It was blue, steel, none of this plastic shit. Yes. I remember the way that you would put the cassette in and then click it shut. And there was something about that tactile sound effect

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyhow, so these reporters put on these orange headphones. And then the event organizer says, please press the play button. One, two, three, go. And... Oh...

There's this sound blasting into their ears, and this voice welcoming them. And the voice says to them, look out into the park. And they see that they are not the only ones listening to a walkman.

There are dozens of other folks with orange headphones on moving through the park. Kids on roller skates. College students jogging. Women exercising. People skateboarding. Even a Buddhist monk.

Like this scene that you and I see every day walking down the street. You know, people in their own little world listening to whatever they want to. Yeah. This is the first time anyone had ever seen that. Amazing. Amazing. And of course, if they took their headphones off, they'd rejoin our shared world, hearing the din of the park and the city around them. But then...

When they put them back on, they'd be back in their own little world. Headphones off, collective reality. Headphones on, whatever personal reality, whatever mood they'd chosen for themselves. Oh my God. Totally. And maybe you can communicate this better than me because you lived it.

But like, this was all so new. Like, most of these people had probably never worn headphones before. They've never had stuff pumped directly into their ears. They've never listened to something outside before, short of a transistor radio or maybe a boombox. And they're now doing it all together, but by themselves. People don't really understand what a big deal the Walkman was.

Like, remember when Steve Jobs did the iPhone and everyone was like, oh my God, oh my God. Yep, yep. This...

was like that times a thousand. You'd go that far? No, really. Like to go from a world where you have to sit on your ass and listen to music in a specific place to suddenly you could walk, like literally walk and have the music playing just for you, thereby soundtracking your journey. You know, I was like, this is a movie and I am the protagonist. This is amazing. Like it was, it was, it was amazing.

well, as amazing and liberating as it was, it was also controversial. Almost immediately, folks were hollering that this personalized, siloed, intimate consumption of media

was going to end community, if not society as we knew it. It's like the same conversations we're having now about Twitter and Facebook. Oh, yeah. And so, I don't know, in more ways than one, I think what Sony unintentionally gave those reporters that morning was a glimpse into the future. I don't know whether it's good for the people or bad for the people, but at least...

We gave people some joy of enjoying the music. Now, I've spent the last year listening to, thinking about, and researching the object powering those Sony Walkmans, the cassette tape. And what I've learned is that this object, this little piece of plastic, changed the world. It brought down governments, collapsed space and time,

and remade how we say those three simple words, I love you. So, for the next five weeks, I've got a mixtape of stories for you. A mixtape that'll take us to China, Vietnam, South Sudan, Czechoslovakia, 1940s America, exploring this object's impact and how, believe it or not, we're still really living in a cassette world. I'm Simon Adler, and this is Mixtape.

Okay, well, Simon, why don't you just take it from here? I'll just excuse myself and go listen to my Walkman in the kitchen. All right, then. So, here we go. Hi, I'm Steve Moog. And in this tape, I'm going to pass on as much knowledge as possible about playing rock and roll. As you sing, you will feel more and more free.

We're kicking off in Hangzhou, China with this guy. This is Hao Fang. Alongside our interpreter,

And really, a co-reporter in China who, for political reasons, has asked to remain anonymous. Anyhow, these days, Hao Fang writes about music for a living. But he says, you know, back when he was a kid, he had no idea that job even existed.

He was born in 1963 in this very small town called Qianjiang. Very small. The kind of place where you'd walk for 10 minutes and be on the outskirts already. Surrounded by mountains, lush countryside, and super isolated. I mean, the best source of reading material he had was...

was at the time people would use old newspaper as wallpaper. Right, like you want to make it look good. And so when Hao would go over to his neighbor's houses... He would just dash to the wall and start reading. Wow. Because there's so little for him to read. But while Hao was hungry for any information about the outside world, his real love was...

Right. His mom worked in this art and dance troupe, an organization under China's military, creating music and choreography. What we nowadays refer to as red songs or revolutionary operas.

This is historian and scholar Mabu. I'm a music fan. I also write about music. And he says these operas were really a tool of the government. I mean, of course, I didn't live through that time, but they were propaganda. I mean, campy, over-the-top productions filled with dolled-up Chinese soldiers.

Really pretty girls, long legs. Determined peasants. Corrupt businessmen. And in them, the peasants seem to always win and the capitalists get what they deserve. And I mean, Hao loved this stuff. I remember watching my mom sing and I would join.

It was simply something that made me happy. But there was very little for him to listen to. Because actually these revolutionary operas, they were the only officially sanctioned style of music. And nationwide, there were only eight that people could listen to.

There were only eight operas. That was the... Yeah, yeah, eight. Eight operas. Virtually everything else was illegal. Does that mean that if I turned on the radio in China in, let's say, 1974...

I would be hearing one of those operas being played? The answer is yes, but then back in those years, it's not that common for a person to turn on the radio. It's more about loudspeakers, which was, I guess, the most common way to listen to music. So you don't even tune into them. They're blasted to you through loudspeakers. Mm-hmm.

It might sound unbelievable to you, but that's how it was back then. And for Hao, it pretty much stayed that way for years and years and years. But then, a decade or so later... So the year is 1948. Wait, 1984? Sorry, what did I say? 48. Oh, God.

This is what happened when you worked a 10-hour day. Totally, absolutely fine. Let me rewind. So, yeah, the year was 1984. Hao just graduated from college. He went to Wuhan, where the virus started.

During the day, Hao would venture out into Wuhan to explore his new home. So he was just like wandering the city, looking for stuff to do with his roommates. And they just happened to stumble across this theater-like place. Little hole in the wall showing bootleg movies with a curtain for a door. He opened the curtain and walked in and...

There were 20 or so people there, small illuminated screen up at the front. And he had to really squint through all the cigarette smoke to make out the screen. But the first thing he noticed was the smell. And not just from the cigarettes. People's oily hair. Feet. Oh, wow.

Sorry. You told me to describe as vividly as I could. Yeah, you did it. Yep. Anyhow, the movie they were showing was an illegal bootleg copy of Apocalypse Now. And he'd never seen anything like it. The realism, the violence,

the explosive budget. Well done, Hawks, well done. But what hit him hardest was not those smells or those images on the screen, but what was coming out of the speakers. The doors. Classic scene in the movie, where the doors, the end, was played. Morrison started to sing. This is a beautiful spring.

He remembers being frozen. He had goosebumps all over him. It was like magic. And so, yeah, Hao was just totally touched by the music.

He'd never heard such a simple yet powerful arrangement. Basically never heard a song about death. Never imagined music could be so emotionally complicated and layered. I think it's just love at the first sight, really. And he needed more of it.

But there was nothing, nothing at all. I mean, China was opening up a bit at the time, letting some Western music in. But there was an actual committee that would handpick which songs. And what they were letting in, like John Denver, The Carpenters. Yeah, very limited songs, only really, really popular stuff. It's pretty harmless.

And as for the more complicated, subversive music coming out of the West at that time, like no one had legal access to it. But there was a group of people in China who, like Hao, had gotten at least a little taste of that larger musical world. University students. Right, right, right. Students at the university, they were some of the few people who had connections to

the foreign community. This is Kaiser Ghoul. I am a podcaster. I run the Sinica podcast on SubChina. He's also a musician, was born to Chinese immigrant parents, and came of age in Tucson, Arizona. Which is why I talk the way I do. Everyone thinks I sound like I'm from Southern California or something, but it's the Tucson in me.

He was living and studying in China in the late 80s. And he says exchange students like him, English teachers, were giving Western music to these students. And they were beginning to express themselves through it. The question of the day, are events in China out of control? For the second day in a row, a million demonstrators have filled the streets of Beijing and there have been demonstrations for democracy. You know, the 89 protests started happening. The Tiananmen Square protests. Justice!

Kaiser actually attended these protests. And said, you know, students had taken over the entire center of the city. It is very important to let the people in the world to know the situation in China. These students in Beijing were demanding democracy, freedom of expression, freedom of access to the outside world.

But also, Kaiser told me, they were doing this thing that doesn't really get talked about much. He said that right there in the heart of the demonstrations... People would just sort of set up stacks of PA, and then they'd have, you know, all the bands at the time just playing, you know, what long end of the night. And, you know, people were in the mood to party.

In the history of communist China, there has never been anything like this. This is a version of the protests that I haven't heard. We only ever hear about or talk about sort of the end of them, I suppose. Right, right. We don't talk about the seven weeks of just love and anarchy. It was wonderful. Some of the happiest days I can remember.

Peace, love, rock and roll, and yes, John Denver's Country Roads. But then, on the morning of June 7th,

I turned the television on. Kaiser had left Beijing and was several days behind the news. The very first image I see is of the charred body of a copper soldier hanging from a bridge. The protests turned violent. Of course, they only showed, you know, the...

Killings in and around Tiananmen Square.

The number of killed is not well known.

But estimates put it in at least the hundreds. The Chinese Red Cross says at least 2,600 people were killed. Some going up to as many as 3,000. The students claim thousands of others were wounded. Yeah, yeah, it's really remarkable. Crazy. Now, the chilling effect Tiananmen had on China really can't be overstated. And music...

Got caught up in all this too. Of course, after the crackdown, just immediately you really cannot listen to popular music from United States or England. This is Wenhua Sher. I'm from, originally from China. He was willing to talk to us about this because today he lives in Boston, where

where he teaches at the University of Massachusetts. During the crackdown, I was quite young, how to say, in ninth grade. But I remember so vividly listening to Sure Wave Radio. Mostly Voice of America. VOA, learning English, and then listening to some popular songs. But after Tiananmen, suddenly those are being removed.

They produce noise to jam the signals. So you cannot hear anymore. It's impossible. So you feel the air is really exhausted because there's no outside possibilities. But just a few short years later, the outside came flooding in.

in pretty much the most unexpected way I can think of. Somewhere in the early 90s, it was spring. Somewhere in Wuhan, Oxiang. Again, music critic Hao Fang. He was on a business trip.

He was meeting a friend, but the friend wasn't there and he was early and he heard some rock music being played. He's like, where is that coming from? So he just followed the music. Down the street and around the corner. And he saw this

and pretty much a hole in the wall. He stepped in and he was just caught off guard completely. It was a store filled with tapes.

More than he'd ever seen in his life. Yeah, Walter Walker sets hundreds, hundreds of hundreds of tapes. And he's like, what the hell is this place? It would be like, turning around and there is Jefferson's airplane. Michael Jackson, Vice President. Turns around and there's like Bob Dylan. And then he turns around, there's Yes Band and really niche ones. Like, is this for real?

It was everything you ever dream of. In that tiny store. And it was cheap. So he thought this is his only chance to own these tapes. And so, yeah, he grabbed all these albums. You have to take them out of your hands first.

as many as he could carry. This big plastic bag with like 20-something tapes. He checked out and began inspecting his treasures. One by one, he started like examining them, analyzing and comparing. And he saw that each of them had been cut

Through the jewel case and into the bottom of the cassette. The cut was about the width of a quarter and an inch or so deep. And he was wondering, you know, like, why is there some marks on these tapes? Or, you know, what happened to them? I mean, he didn't know, but he was encountering dark hole.

He didn't know where they came from. He didn't know there's going to be more access to daco. And he didn't know it was going to be a national scene. He didn't know这些daco磁带即将改变他和中国数百万其他人对音乐的看法。Hao当时只知道他想要更多。

我们将在短暂休息后继续讨论。第一侧到此结束。请翻转你的磁带以开始第二侧。

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当与刚认识的朋友举起Pacifico啤酒，变成了去参加他们朋友的当地艺术展，获得灵感一起创作，并画出你的第一幅壁画时，你找到了等待你的东西。Pacifico。生活在等待。仅限21岁及以上。负责任地发现。Pacifico Clara Beer。由Crown Imports，芝加哥，伊利诺伊州进口。

我是Maria Konnikova。我是Nate Silver。我们的新播客《风险商业》是一个关于做出更好决策的节目。我们都是记者，兼职扑克玩家，这就是我们将用来接近整个节目的视角。我们将讨论从高风险扑克到个人问题的一切。比如我是否应该叫水管工，还是自己修理淋浴。当然，我们也会谈论选举。无论你在哪里收听播客，都可以收听《风险商业》。

改善摇滚乐演奏的另一种方法是尽可能吸收外部知识和信息，即使是简单的东西，比如...或非常不受欢迎的噪音...或更容易听的东西。或者无论如何，因为我们将把它们切割并组合在一起，制作出一点东西。

我是西蒙·阿德勒。这是《Mixtape》。在我们休息之前，经过数十年的共产党歌剧，偶尔夹杂着约翰·丹佛的歌曲，Hao Feng偶然发现了一批装满音乐的磁带，而他和几乎中国的其他人都没有机会听到这些音乐。

而且问题是，他并不孤单。也就是说，成排成排的磁带。这又是历史学家Mabu，他也遇到了其中一个故事。你看到鲍勃·迪伦。然后你看到，不，这不仅仅是一个鲍勃·迪伦。那是十个鲍勃·迪伦。哇，这太疯狂了。它们来自哪里？那时，没有人知道。 ♪

再次是历史学家Mabu。但是...

叶教授？叶。叶老师。是的。好的。是的。叶老师。哦，我的天。连你都听说过这个家伙。叶老师。虽然我们无法100%确认他是第一个，但他无疑是最早的之一。所以这是我想，最常见的故事版本。所以叶老师。叶老师。

叶教授去附近的和平镇旅行。也许是为了做一些研究，也许是度假。他得到了一个提示，应该去看看这个巨大的仓库。呃，

实际上是一个回收中心。我们称之为料场。那时，中国正在购买和进口世界上大部分的回收物品。这个镇和仓库正在处理所有的塑料。环顾四周，看到所有等待被磨成小颗粒的塑料，他意识到...他正站在一座磁带的山上。我的意思是，在他左边...

一堆五英尺高，右边是一堆十英尺高。那里有成千上万的磁带，每个磁带都有一个切口。我的意思是，当然他会感到震惊，想象里面有什么声音，思考这支乐队是谁，这位歌手是谁？他会渴望听到里面的音乐。是的。

关键是这些磁带作为塑料废料进入，数量庞大。那个仓库让我目瞪口呆。

是因为里面的磁带数量吗？这又是Hao Fang，多年后他也去了和平看看。你根本无法计算有多少磁带。数以百万计的磁带，是的。Mabu给我的估计大约在每年4500万到1.5亿之间。

我准备好了。好的，所以我会通过我的手机听到他，但我在麦克风里说话，对吧？现在要弄清楚这些数以百万计的垃圾磁带的来源。

你好。我给这个家伙打了个电话。你好，这是比尔吗？是的。嘿，比尔，我是Radiolab的西蒙。你好吗？我很好，西蒙。你好吗？这是比尔·纳德尔-塞德尔。我从1982年到1989年报道录音行业。他说，在美国，

80年代末和90年代初是音乐行业的颓废时期。哦，是的。哦，我的天。唱片公司是摇钱树。你是华纳兄弟。你的唱片公司赚的钱比你的电影部门还多，利润更高。他们有很多乐队，卖出了数百万张唱片。

像R.E.M.、U2、涅槃乐队、邦·乔维。所以钱是巨大的。因此，唱片高管们在大赌注。

制作数百万份他们发布的几乎所有东西。从麦当娜到，我不知道，甚至可能是动画说唱角色MC Scat Cat。他们生产的数量如此之多，即使是一张热门唱片，通常也会留下数十万张未售出的副本，更不用说像MC Scat Cat这样的失败作品了。

那么他们对这些剩余的磁带做了什么？他们想要摆脱它。好的。所以他们会以每个便士的价格批量出售给买家和转售商网络。首先，他们会在唱片商店以“切割品”的标签出售。你知道，停产的唱片被称为切割品，因为他们将其从活跃销售类别中切除。如果他们在那里没有卖出去，有人会以便士的价格批量购买，再试图在其他地方出售。卡车站。

洗车店、药店和其他地方。最后，如果没有人想要这些磁带...他们会送去销毁。他们通常的做法是用锯片切割它们，切入磁带大约一英寸深，留下塑料上的伤口和磁带的断裂。从那里，甚至比尔也不知道...它们被扔进垃圾里，像大...

在1980年代，中国绝大多数人从未听过西方音乐，除了约翰·丹佛、卡朋特乐队和一些其他被共产党挑选的歌曲。但在90年代末，一位名叫叶教授的神秘人物在和平的一个塑料回收中心发现了这些东西。在《Mixtape》的第一集中，我们与中国历史学家、音乐评论家以及那些将受损的西方音乐塑料碎片转变为中国音乐新景观的音乐家们进行了交谈，他们以我们从未想象过的方式重新构想了摇滚乐。

这一集的实现离不开他们每一个人。 通过访问Radiolab.org/donate，今天就成为Radiolab的会员来支持我们吧。</context> <raw_text>0 该死的驳船？德拉什？你是这个意思吗？是的，废料驳船。哇。这些被切割的剪影被扔进集装箱，运往中国，叶教授在这些废料山中发现了它们。我从中感到振奋。音乐无论如何都会传递给人们。然而...

为了让这些音乐传达到中国人民手中，这些磁带需要修复，这正是叶教授所尝试做的。我们要做的就是把工具拿出来。他的理论基本上是……即使机制受损，你也可以把磁带取出来。再次提到凯泽·郭。将其拼接并重新缠绕到新的磁带壳上。这可不是件容易的事。实际上，这将是一场巨大的麻烦。好吧，开始吧。但是...

在几乎将一盘约翰·丹佛的磁带锯成两半后。

哦，是的，你直接锯过去了。你可以看到磁带本身已经分开了。哦，是的。我的AP和这个系列的真正副驾驶，艾利·科恩，我也开始看看我们是否能做到这一点。所以，首先，我们必须进一步破坏它，以便让它复活。我们必须把约翰·丹佛的磁带从破损的磁带壳中取出来。用锤子砸它。

现在我们有了一些破损，现在这就像打开蟹腿的体验。好了。将约翰·丹佛的磁带从磁带壳中取出。我们有螺丝。艾利打开了我们要将约翰·丹佛移植到的新磁带壳，我们把约翰·丹佛的磁带粘在新的磁带卷上。剪掉多余的部分。太美了。哦，见鬼。

有点挣扎。该死。好吧。最终成功了。好了。是时候把病人缝合回去了。然后把新的磁带壳重新拧紧。看起来是可行的。是的。我不明白为什么它现在不应该播放。所以我们把它放进我的磁带播放器。大钱，没有意外。没用。没有...

等一下，等一下。我们把磁带取出来，试着手动向前缠绕一点。再放回去。还是没反应。医生，你能给病人诊断一下吗？主持人似乎拒绝了它的新器官。因此，我们再试一次，手动将左卷上的一堆磁带缠绕到右卷上。所以我们基本上失去了第一首歌。可能没关系。好吧，再试一次。然后...

现在这个繁琐而费力的修复过程，叶教授和其他人开始大规模进行。

雇人来做这些劳动，并将这些磁带分发到全国各地。最终他或像他一样的人给这些东西起了个名字。达口。达口，恰好翻译为……剪切。我们不知怎么也发明了这个术语...

它们像野火一样传播。我在89年后离开了中国。那时还没有达口。我在91年和92年回来的时候，它们无处不在。即使在那些不大的城市。像新疆的乌鲁木齐、云南的大理这样的偏远地方。在我家外面，有一家花店。花店在卖达口。就是这么疯狂。而且它们对中国消费者来说是负担得起的。

这些东西的数量之多，以至于中国政府真的只能束手无策。因此，中国各地的人们都得到了自己的小末日时刻。

对于郝芳来说……达口在他最需要的时候出现了。达口所能提供的多样性彻底改变了他的生活轨迹。

他说，没有它们，他绝对不会成为一名音乐评论家。因此，如果要用一个词来总结他对达口的感受，那就是感激。没有达口，他今天不会是他。而且很多艺术家，许多人也不会是他们自己。因为这些无法监管的垃圾磁带引发了一场音乐爆炸，彻底重新构想了摇滚乐是什么。这是李扬。今天他是一位纹身的音乐家，袖子上爬满了纹身。

这些达口磁带激励了他和无数其他人组建乐队。我们知道他第一支乐队的名字吗？我不确定他是否告诉过我。你知道，每个人都对自己第一支乐队的名字感到尴尬，所以他可能不想告诉你名字。

或者他一直在说，我记不起来了，因为我过的生活。就这些我能记得的。所以，你知道，我只能想象。那是丽贝卡·坎索尔，上海的记者，她帮助我们与他进行采访。无论如何。随你而来。

作为你的朋友，作为你……李扬听到的第一支乐队是涅槃乐队，他非常喜欢。他想听更多类似的音乐，但他不知道该寻找什么类型。

不，不知道。实际上，他甚至不知道有类型。只有西方音乐。还有大家在中国听的音乐。这是两个类型，因为...

没有人教我们，这是什么金属，这是什么朋克，这是什么垃圾，这是什么情绪。我们一开始对此并不清楚。李扬只有录音，别无他物。

所以他在听所有这些东西。没有上下文。再次提到凯泽·郭。对你知道的，这张专辑在摇滚历史中的地位没有任何理解。没有意识到披头士乐队在ACDC之前，或者ACDC在涅槃乐队之前，对吧？

当然没有所谓的“好”的概念。例如，很多人抱怨披头士和鲍勃·迪伦的声音只是非常普通的声音。等一下，等一下，等一下。人们认为鲍勃·迪伦和披头士乐队不够出色？是的。在他们的地方，人们所吸引的是……天哪，有那么多那么多冷门乐队。例如……这个非常冷门的芬兰交响金属乐队。叫做Sonata Arktika。

有很多这样的乐队。斯特拉托瓦里乌斯，明白吗？我想也是来自芬兰。芬兰在这里被过度代表，但食尸鬼乐队。他们是佛罗里达的死亡金属乐队。他们很大。算是吧。但我开始在中国到处看到他们的磁带。

对于凯泽来说，这一切都是有点可怕的。你知道，我会说，例如，你必须从披头士、滚石乐队和谁开始。你不能跳过，因为涅槃乐队的意义在于你必须理解它是对什么的反应。

我完全理解这一点。就像我学习爵士萨克斯风十年。真的吗？是的，是的，是的，是的。这完全是关于确切知道什么在什么之前。对，没错。知道谁在什么时候演奏了什么音符，并在你的独奏中引用那些音符，以展示对形式的知识或理解。哦，是的，是的，是的。所以我不知道。理解某事在其上下文中的价值是有意义的。哦，当然。是的。

然而，凯泽说……我的意思是，我现在为曾经进行这种摇滚学校教学而感到懊悔。因为他说接下来发生的事情。2000年代中期，凯泽在中国的一个音乐节上。他遇到了李扬和他所带领的乐队……叫做Demerit。我看到这些家伙。他们来进行音响检查。

他们有着巨大的莫霍克发型，牛仔夹克，上面有尖刺，查克·泰勒鞋。他们打扮得像一支朋克乐队，这正是李扬所追求的。他说事后看来，他所听的东西是……但凯泽注意到，在这种朋克外表下……他们穿着铁娘子乐队的T恤。

我觉得这很讽刺，对吧？他们有点在嘲笑铁娘子。哈哈。这真有趣。因为铁娘子是经典的重金属乐队之一，演奏这些极其技术性的歌曲，伴随着复杂的吉他独奏。朋克和金属完全是音乐上的不匹配。但在那天晚些时候，当Demerit乐队轮到表演时...

他们站起来开始演奏他们的歌曲，像是，你知道，朋克，主和弦。正是凯泽对朋克乐队的预期。那种粗暴、顽皮的嗓音。但在歌曲进行到一半时……他们突然进入了双吉他独奏，他们在紧密和声中撕裂。这是70年代美国朋克和80年代英国金属的奇美拉。

就像，哇！

我以为在美国，没有朋克乐队会费心去应用那么多技巧。也没有金属乐队会接受那种美学。但这太棒了。这是一种我真的可以投入的音乐。所以我和他们交谈。我问，难道你们不是朋克吗？你们如何看待这些你们混合在一起的类型？他们说，我们并不在乎。

有一种解放感，他不知道这一切是什么，所以他……他没有任何规则。他可以随心所欲地创作。创作音乐。将所有东西混合在一起。以他想要的方式。他能够创作出摆脱自身历史或期望的音乐。

在中国，其他音乐家也在做同样的事情，毫无顾忌地将摇滚与比波普、与乡村音乐、与古典音乐混合。这是一种奇怪的、完全脱离身体的借用。就像是摆脱了上下文，摆脱了义务。就像是把一株植物。

从它的土壤中移走，抖掉旧土壤的任何残留物，把它放在这种完全不同的土壤中，具有不同的pH值，阳光照射的程度也不同。它会以不同的方式生长，而它确实如此。这就像是最大规模的混音带。没错。没错。对那一代人的影响是深远的。年轻人需要不同的声音。每个人都非常...

对他来说，“达口”的最大影响不是音乐。是他找到了一种新的思考世界的方式。也许他并不知道自己在寻找它，但当他听到时，他就像，“哦。”是的。

那就是我。所以，达口，就像一个小窗口。然后一切都涌了进来。现在，令我印象深刻的是，所有这一切，超过任何其他事情，是我们现在都生活在这个世界中。从跨越时代和类型的Spotify播放列表...

到我们消费的新闻的零散片段，然后将其编织到我们对发生过的事情的理解中。我的意思是，我们的品味、我们的信仰、我们的现实都是拼贴画，是去上下文化再重新上下文化的片段的混音带。下周，我们将离开中国，回到这个混音存在开始的时刻。

我们有关于我们现实中第一次拼接的故事，以及两个让这一切发生的人，一个你肯定知道，一个你绝对不知道。

《Mixtape》的报道、制作、配乐和声音设计均由我，西蒙·阿德勒完成，贯穿始终的原创音乐也是由我创作。艾利·科恩提供了宝贵的报道和制作协助。本集还包括诺里科·石垣、丽贝卡·坎索尔和我们出色的匿名中国记者的原创报道。