Hi, I want to talk to you today about my friends at Bitwise and why they're the best crypto asset manager out there. So many investors I know are working with Bitwise today. They've got more than 20 products to help investors get whatever access they need or want.
They've got a team of more than 100 across the US and Europe. They have more than $10 billion in client assets. It's not just the products that show they're all in. They've even supported the ecosystem by donating 10% of their Bitcoin and Ethereum ETF profits to open source developers. And they were the first company to publish their Bitcoin ETF wallet address. Like I said, these guys are true OGs.
So please go and check out Bitwise. They really are excellent. Go to bitwiseinvestments.com and see all they've got to offer. That's bitwiseinvestments.com or just email them at james at bitwiseinvestments.com and let them know that Raoul's sent you. Anyway, there are a million ways to access crypto. Explore how you can access it best with Bitwise.
And remember, carefully consider the extreme risks associated with crypto before investing. Anyway, thanks very much. Hi, everyone. I'm Raoul Pal, the CEO and co-founder of Real Vision. Here at Real Vision, we're committed to give you the best knowledge, tools, and network to help you succeed in your financial future. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to give it a five-star rating. It truly helps us continue to bring top-tier content. Thank you so much.
Hello out there and welcome to another edition of Macro Mondays, sending live to you from Copenhagen, Denmark. My name is Mikkel Rosenvall. I'm very excited to be your host once again. And as usual, I'm joined by you, Andreas. Welcome to the show. Cheers, Mikkel.
straight from a very, very messy train station here. So that's why I'm slightly sweating. No problem. Right on the show. We're sending live, obviously, on various channels. Remember that you can post your questions. And even if Andreas is a little short of breath, we'll get around to that eventually. Remember that this is a sneak peek into the macro and geopolitical research and analysis that we do at Stenner Research. We provide a lot of that for Real Vision as well, if you're a member of the pro-macro tier. So be sure to check that out.
But always remember, even though we do our best to be well informed and honest, that our trade suggestions and ideas might sometimes be... Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit. Absolutely. Important to remember that. So, Andreas, quite a week we had, especially in European politics. We have a lot going on, both in Ukraine and with the German election. We'll get around that. We'll touch a bit on the outlook for the dollar in 2025. Yes.
And then I have a bit of a chart quiz to end off with, or chart ranking. We'll get to that eventually. Andrea, we have already a lot of audience questions coming in, so that's really great. We'll get to those in a minute. First of all, Andreas, I have a very, very important question for you, because obviously we work together. We're in the same office.
I'm the CFO of the company. So I have to ask you, what did you do last week? Oh, God. This is the email. I didn't send it to you because I know I'm throwing it in your face. What did you get accomplished last week, Andreas? I did a lot of trades. Good ones? Yeah, mostly. And, you know, then I spent most of last week watching Dollar Yen. I'm not sure whether that would...
qualify for a layoff note from Elon. I was just watching one chart basically all of last week because I think we're approaching a turning point in the dollar. So I think that's a very, very weak answer actually to your question. I didn't accomplish five things. I just looked at dollar-yen.
I think that's one thing. My opinion on this is instead of listing five things, you should be able to explain your job in preferably three words. I was trading. Yeah, trading. One word, I catch fish. That's another one I really love. Everyone understands it, even a five-year-old will understand it. So anyway, this is making it round on...
on um incredible i don't know if i hate i love this address it's it's ingenious it's stupid at the same time obviously this is the mail that elon musk sent out to all the federal employees in in in the us uh
A lot of local managements and the FBI and the State Department sort of intervene into this, say, okay, we'll answer on your behalf. But I mean, somehow I got to love this, the simplicity of this and the passive aggressive approach here. But Mikkel, on a serious note, right? This will obviously impact employment figures in both February and March, April, et cetera, from the U.S.,
So, you know, based on my current assumptions, we're talking about layoffs to an extent of three to 400K. It's a lot. You know, compare that to roughly 7 million unemployed in the US. So, you know, we're talking about a meaningful addition to the unemployment queue. On top of that, for each federal employee,
a couple of contractors follow. And let me explain why. Let's say you run like a communication office for one of the big state departments. Obviously, you don't do the work yourself. You hire some guy in town to do your media stuff and so on and so forth. So actually, for each layoff, you should expect some side effects basically in town, if you know what I mean. And the scope of that is pretty much unknown, but
I don't know, maybe we'll see a 2x effect, something like that. I don't know. So we could potentially be talking about almost a million in terms of new unemployed, new claims, basically, right? It's a lot. And, you know,
Even though we know the reason why these people get unemployed, it will obviously impact the economy. It will impact the thinking of the Federal Reserve. And I think it will weaken the dollar. We're not laying off people in the public sector in Eurozone, rather the contrary. And we're basically discussing the contrary to spend more, not spend less. So it's a major turning point for the relative momentum in public spending.
And we typically were the masters of public spending in Europe. And thankfully, we're back at that throne soon. Okay, Andreas. One very big step in that direction is obviously the election in Germany. No major party basically ran a campaign on spending less public money. Everyone wanted to invest more, but there are obviously a lot of differences. Hi, Raoul here.
Listen, I think we've got until 2030 before the economic singularity arrives. Now, it might not be the exact date, but it's around then. So we have about six years to figure out how to unfuck our future. I've put together a report to help you called Prepare for 2030. It's going to help you take the first steps in that journey to make sure you're secure past 2030. So just click on the link below and start your journey now.
So obviously the main focus was Elon Musk supporting AFD. They win the election, they never had a chance of that. Everyone was expecting the black party here, the CDU, CSU, the Union to be the biggest party. They will take the chance with Friedrich Merz. The important or the interesting thing here is that Friedrich Merz essentially has three options to form his government.
He could go with the Social Democratic Party, the Labour Party, the Green Party or with AFD in sheer numbers terms. I have no doubt that he'll go with the Labour Party, the Social Democratic Party. That is the expected grand coalition, so to speak, in German politics.
It might seem logical that he would team up with the right-wing AFD to form a center-right government, but he's not going to do that. However, he has opened for the opportunity or the possibility that he will use other majorities in special cases. So the Labour Party will just have to accept that Friedrich Merz might pass immigration legislation, etc., with the AFD. Yeah. So Mikkel...
My first reaction to this was that it was a very middle-of-the-road result. It was more or less spot on expectations, right? And the opinion polls were actually for once pretty accurate. On top of that, the big discussion now in Germany is whether they will annul this debt break, "Schuldenbremse" it's called in German, right?
I actually saw a pretty interesting article just before arriving here. Some good things come out of waiting in the train. So Friedrich Merz, the new chancellor,
he will potentially use the current Bundestag, the current parliament, to get rid of that debt break. Because in the current parliament, the three parties at the very top of this leaderboard from the election results, they have a two-third majority. They do not have that in the new parliament. And they need that two-third majority to get rid of the debt break. And who knows whether you can convince the AFD or the left party to get rid of that. It will...
likely come with some requests the other way, right? So I think they will get rid of it before forming a government. And that, you know, that's now. And potentially very big news for Germany. Yes, absolutely. And what that means is essentially that all breaks or most breaks on German federal spending will be off. And Germany will invest a lot more into its economy, primarily defense spending, obviously, but also potentially into its energy sector.
It's still a little bit unclear whether Friedrich Merz will have the ability to reopen the German nuclear plants. That is a very, very controversial subject still in Germany. We're still awaiting news on that. They are going to look into it, but it might simply not be profitable to run these nuclear plants now that they've been shut down.
So it might be more of a strategic question. We'll get to that. But anyway, very benign outlooks for increased government spending in Germany, obviously still the powerhouse of European economy. At least it was, and probably is to some extent still, right? But it's been flatlining for a while. Yeah.
I sincerely hope that something happens now because it's very needed. And this whole optimism around the Europe trade, one that we've highlighted basically since late last year, and one that we've returned decently on in our portfolio,
is very much dependent on Germany actually making some progress on this question, right? Germany is one of the very few countries, and that's why I'm upbeat on it, with a very, very benign debt-to-GDP projection the next 50 years. We're talking less than 40% based on current assumptions. So, I mean, they have plenty of room to stimulate. In sharp contrast to Italy, in sharp contrast to the US, in sharp contrast to a lot of other countries worldwide, Germany needs to stimulate because they have the room to do so.
Very interesting. In other news, Andreas, we have I wanted to show this one first.
Kyrst Amr and Emmanuel Macron going to Washington. The good cop and the bad cop, they're being labeled. They're meeting with Donald Trump as we speak, more or less. We had some reports that Donald Trump kept Macron waiting outside the door. He also did that with the Polish president last week. Kept him waiting for a couple of hours for a 10-minute meeting. That's the way it is. He's the man of the moment. So people are lining up to meet him, obviously. I think we're beginning to see Europe
more or less stepping up. Um, we're beginning to see European leaders actually acting on, uh, the strategic chessboard that is being put in front of them. Uh, they've dropped all illusions that Ukraine can win the war. They've dropped all illusions that NATO is going to stay the same that we've been used to, used to for the, for the past 70 years. So now these two guys have tried to assemble what they can within Europe. Uh, we discussed this a little bit last week. Uh,
and gone to Washington to say, okay, this is what Europe can do right now to help you or to aid your agenda, Donald Trump. We still need American help to defend Ukraine in the future. And you still need to include Ukraine in these talks. So I see this as a very, very positive sign for Europe. It might be baby steps. It might not be what Donald Trump expects from us, but still, it's a first step. European leadership is being formed. These two guys are taking the reign and we'll have to see where this ends.
But to me, a very, very positive sign for Europe, politically speaking. Meanwhile, we are seemingly getting a little bit closer to understanding between Zelensky and Trump. So obviously, Trump held direct talks with Russia last week. That was not very positively received around Europe and Ukraine. Zelensky dropped his trip to Riyadh.
The US presented Ukraine with a minerals deal that was very, very harsh. They would basically be handing over a lot of the rights to mineral wealth in Ukraine to the US. And people were outraged throughout Europe and X as well. It seems like Zelensky and Trump are working now. Zelensky is making concrete suggestions. They're working on this minerals deal. It might actually, even though Ukraine will have to give up a lot,
and also potentially give up a lot of money, it might not be the worst idea for them to tie the U.S. in, to tie big U.S. companies to investments into Ukraine. That is a way of tying Donald Trump to the masses. It's the Biden model. Yeah, you could say that, essentially. So to me, Andreas, we are seeing developments that Trump has managed with his...
sometimes incredibly foolish rhetoric or uh and all all the the the fake news all that he's managed to shake up europe managed to shake up ukraine say okay guys we need to do something else than what we're doing and some stuff is happening i know you have a positive outlook for europe as well but how do you view all these developments
Well, I agree with you that for once there is a feasible bull case for Europe. A lot of infrastructure spending is needed in Ukraine. A lot of infrastructure spending is needed elsewhere in Europe. And now we are on our own. So we simply need to do it ourselves and, you know,
why not do it now because we won't get any aid over the next three to four years so i i think there's a bull case there uh europe is doing very well in equity markets relative to the us uh that's maybe the caveat of everything uh that trump is is doing right now that you know everything us is underperforming uh which is in sharp contrast to what happened straight after the election result was known
uh we had a massive outperformance of u.s assets in in october november and into december and then everything has turned around um china's doing better than the u.s and equity markets europe is doing better than us in the equity market and so on and so forth i think that's a temporary situation just to be clear but um it goes to show that even if donald trump is incredibly hostile in his negotiation tactics
The main recipient of inflows right now as a consequence of it is Europe, which is almost hilarious, right? But it's the case. Look at flows. Yes, it is. It was much needed and appreciated.
you know it's not like i'm sitting here applauding his approach to europe i'm a european after all but i think something good will come out of it and on top of that michael i'd like to just mention one thing from trump's press conference on friday because quote unquote he said the eu is suddenly behaving nicely to us
They have offered to lower their auto tariffs, their agricultural tariffs in return for some sort of deal around these reciprocal tariffs that he threatened with just a few weeks ago. And in my opinion, that is a very, very clear example of what's going to happen due to all of this hostile negotiation going on.
rhetoric from Trump, we're going to see a race to the bottom on tariffs, not the opposite. So the end game, if you breathe easy and, you know, have a bit of patience is pretty good for global trade, in my opinion.
That's very interesting. And I believe that quote was severely underreported. Trump actually being positive about talks with the EU. The mere fact that talks are actually happening underneath the hood or behind the curtains here is very, very positive. It seems to me that the political leadership in Europe is for once leading the population actually in the media here because the media is still in complete panic over Donald Trump, but the leadership both in Brussels
London, Paris, perhaps now also Berlin, we might hope, is actually taking a lead on this and creating new structures for Europe. Okay, Andreas, I just want to round off before we get to some questions. I think we should talk about another region than Europe now. It feels like some sort of 30 minutes about dinosaurs or whatever. Yeah.
Absolutely, absolutely. We have a couple of questions on Japan we'll get back to essentially. So Andreas, you brought along in your Sunday article this chart. I just want to mention it briefly because it ties up with your dollar point. What is the city economic surprise here?
So this is basically an overview of the so-called economic surprise index across all major regions, right? And if you have a negative reading here, it basically means that the average key figure prints lower than expectations.
So Bloomberg surveys all of the economists week in and week out. And if we get an average negative surprise, it's obviously negative for the momentum of the economy. And as you can see on this chart, the light blue is three months ago versus the dark blue being as of today. And the US surprise index is falling off a cliff. That's a bit harsh, but it's actually true. We had very positive surprises in the US just after the election result.
And now we're seeing negative surprises. So basically all of the expectations that Donald Trump would lead to, you know, a golden age straight away. We're not really seeing that. And again, bear in mind that this is versus expectations. So the U.S. is still doing very fine, but just less good.
while we're seeing the Eurozone, the E-set on the chart here, moving leftwards, basically meaning that surprises are positive. We're seeing positive surprises in Canada. Who would have thought? I mean, it was basically the country first in line for tariffs, right? Absolutely. And Justin Trudeau had to step down, basically, as a consequence and all of that, right? And suddenly Canada looks like a decent case here.
from a momentum perspective, Japan is looking good. Also one of the countries in center of attention for these steel and aluminum tariffs, right? So yeah, it's kind of upside down to what most people expected coming into this year. And you have to be very, very dynamic around this because it's a very, very dynamic picture.
uh this surprise picture macro wise um norway apparently the worst country on earth sorry guys if you're tuning in from norway but uh maybe it's a good timing to buy some norwegian stuff i don't know could be so address this ties up with one of your main uh projections for 2025 yeah the future of the dollar let's just get the headlines and this people can read more in the article but yeah well the dollar is set to weaken um end of discussion and uh you know
we've received a load of questions on it we've been on this story from the get-go of the year um we've chatted to raul about it quite a few times on on the real vision platform uh and it was such a consensus view coming into this year that the dollar would continue to increase in value versus peers right uh now we're seeing the opposite slowly but surely uh even the euro is starting to find uh a bit of momentum and it's very early days but it's starting to find a bit of momentum
The Japanese yen is doing very well against the US dollar. We're also starting to see some early benign signs from the Canadian dollar, from the Australian dollar, stuff like that. So the whole point here is that always consider the consensus before taking an investment decision.
The dollar was the consensus trade going into this year, and now we're moving in the other direction. And I think this will continue on a trend basis, given how the Trump policy mix is designed. You bring interest rates down, the doge is working. It's working wonders.
Long bond yields are coming down. Growth will come down a little bit as a consequence because you lay off people. They will spend less. But anyway, this is ultimately what we need to get the next wave of positivity in crypto and risk assets in the US. We need lower bond yields. We need the Federal Reserve to play ball with a few rate cuts here and there. And we'll get exactly that. You just need to be patient a few more months.
A couple of questions here. A quick update on Japan. We kind of covered that. I want to phase into another question, maybe. I can say a few more words on Japan. Thanks for that question, Miguel. That's probably your Spanish friend there. But Japan is an odd case right now because it's basically the only central bank left with a hiking bias, right? They move interest rates up.
And if you look at the current pricing of the Bank of Japan, they're not expected to hike interest rates until, say, between June and September, that window. I think that's basically a little bit too defensive, if you know what I mean. I think they'll hike before that. Take a look at the inflation report from Japan last week. We're talking plus 4% inflation in Japan. We're talking very sticky wage expectations. We're talking very sticky input costs, also because the Japanese yen has been so weak.
Really, really weak, right? And they import a lot of stuff there for their outputs, basically. So I think it's a very classic divergence case between the US and Japan in terms of bond yields. And it means that dollar-yen will come down a lot. Stronger Japanese yen versus the dollar. It's been one of our key bets this year, working very well for us.
So could a Japan reverse carry trade be unwinding or could that cause a black swan event? So I guess this question kind of refers to what happened back in August, September last year, and it was very nasty. It is much more in line with current positioning this time around. And let me try and explain why.
For it to be a black swan event, it needs to, you know, arrive out of thin air, basically. And it does not arrive out of thin air this time around. It's much better telegraphed. The Bank of Japan is on a very clear path towards hiking, while the Federal Reserve is, you know,
it's got an embedded easing bias already while what happened last summer was basically that the fed was caught off guard by a couple of very weak unemployment reports and the situation is just different on that front now the fed is much more attentive to the labor market um it's much more on top of the inflation developments than it was um nine to 12 months ago in my opinion so
The short answer to that question is no, I don't think there's a black swan here. It will have a negative impact on Nasdaq. We can already see that. So we need to find some sort of stability in the carry trade probably in a few months from now before we get that reversal in the Nasdaq trade. That's my opinion right now. When I entered this room, Nasdaq was trading pretty heavy. So I think there's, you know, the question is connecting the dots in the right way here, but it will be substantially less nasty than it was last autumn.
So an interesting question here from Stuart. Do you guys think the EU will begin to shift towards federating, at least with regards to armed force, central treasury, etc.? This will have huge economic implications. What are your opinions? Maybe I can get started on that. Do you want my personal opinion of that or whether it's a feasible scenario? I know we disagree a little bit on that.
Okay, I'll start with my personal opinion. Please know, I mean, the big difference between the federalism seen in the US and the potential federalism seen in Europe is that we don't have the same language. We don't have the same culture. We're not used to paying for each other in the same way. So I think it's, you know, it's a bad idea just because of that. I know you have
large internal differences in the US, but at least you can talk to each other. I mean, if I cross a couple of borders, I have no fucking clue what they say. That's a big difference. So that's why it's a big no for me on a personal level. And I think it's a big no on a political level as well. But yeah, I think you're more upbeat on that. No, not necessarily. I mean, I think we are going to see increased leadership within Europe. We are going to see increased...
collaboration on a number of issues, trade, military, uh, uh,
public investments as well. The question is how much of this will be within the scope or within the, within EU or outside EU, because on all matters of defense, you need the UK there. They're just pulling too much weight to not be included in that. So we might see some sort of EU plus UK or Northern European coalition on the military and defense issues.
On the common treasury, I think we are going to see an increased EU budget at the very least. EU common lending, perhaps, but at the very least increased. So increased federating, no, we're not going to see the federal states of Europe. Nobody wants that. But we are going to see increased EU budget. But we're going from...
a trade and customs union to a trade and customs union and a defense union as well. That's what's going to happen. But the defense union potentially on the side. Yeah, sure. But with clear ties to that EU budget. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very likely. Okay, Andreas, I just want to touch two more subjects here.
Looking ahead to next week, I usually try and draw various macro numbers that are very, very interesting. I had to dig really, really deep. Some consumer numbers out of Portugal and it was a tough one. But there's this. Uh...
key numbers, NVIDIA earnings reports. I know this is very, very small to read. Perhaps we should have made it a little bit larger. It doesn't matter too much. What are your expectations and how much should you focus on single reports like this as a macro investor? There's the Q4 GDP report from Moldova as well. Oh, yeah. I forgot that. Just kidding. NVIDIA is obviously the big event this week. For some reason, NVIDIA decides to report much later than the rest of the Mac 7. And
I'm of the view that NVIDIA is the most important of the Mac 7s right now, also for the broader sentiment. And everyone's watching this report because of what happened with DeepSeek. I guess the only question mark I have is,
ahead of the report here is whether this will impact Nvidia's order book for next quarter, basically. Because as we alluded to after discussing this Chinese deep seek AI story and all of that, there is no doubt that if you lower the entry barriers, if you lower the costs of using AI, more people will use it. It's a tremendously bullish case, and it ultimately means more GPUs used by clients of Nvidia, right?
but they'll have to expand their order book also sort of in, in the breadth of it because, you know, they're,
Their order book is basically in the other parts of Mac seven as it is right now, more or less. Right. But it needs to be democratized further in the coming years for them to grow as fast as they're projected to do. So that's, you know, that's everything I'm watching. And I think they'll disappoint this week. It's the first time I've ever said it about Nvidia. I think the very near term outlook is a little bit disappointing, but bear in mind that with all of the caveats here, that it's a,
tremendously bullish long-term story. Yeah, because expectations are so incredibly high. That's what I tried to bring in this chart here. 72% expected increase in revenue year over year. Yeah, but it was 100%. Yeah, so it has come down a lot. Yeah, and it's the hockey stake or the exponential curve that's recognized that. Okay, Andreas, I want to finish off by addressing a pet peeve of mine. On X, you have
a lot of guys trying to sell research subscriptions or a SOP stack or whatever by forecasting that this is the recession coming. Now it's coming. Now it's coming. A lot of these guys do that for six to eight years in a row. And sometimes, you know, they're right. And so I gathered a couple of charts and I just wanted you to decide which is the stupidest of these or if they actually make some sense. They might.
So I don't know if you can see this. Otherwise, you can see it on my screen here. So this is the total value of all publicly related stocks divided by the US GDP. The Warren Buffett indicator, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Wilshire 5000 to GDP ratio. Does this make sense? Is this an indicator that we are in some sort of bubble right now? I hate this, in all honesty. It's probably one of the worst indicators you could use right now, in my opinion, because, you know,
What's changed since year 2000? Well, we've moved from a linear world to an exponential world. You know, it's a bit cocky to just state it like that, but I think that's what is happening. In year 2000, it was impossible for a company to have billions of clients. You know, Meta, they have billions of users. It's... If you're...
a Western living in the West. I mean, it's impossible not to be a client of Microsoft, even if you try. You know, I don't want to be a client of Microsoft. I would prefer not to be, but I cannot get rid of them. It's impossible. You know, the wealth concentration and the concentration of technology is out of this world, meaning that it makes no whatsoever sense to compare the U.S. equity market to the U.S. GDP market.
At the bare minimum, you need to look at world GDP, world population, something like that, right? At the bare minimum. It looks a little bit stretched on such a metric as well. But in any case, why would you compare the value of Meta or NVIDIA to the US GDP? They have clients everywhere.
And they'll have clients all over the globe going forward, right? Even in Africa, you're a client of Microsoft via your phone now, right? Or Apple or whatever, right? So the wealth concentration and the concentration because of technological advances makes this metric useless. Sorry.
Another red flag for me is when you, I don't even want to get into the specifics of this chart, but when you call a bubble the everything bubble, I mean, what is that? Including Burgundy wine. If you can't even point to the point, where is this bubble in the economy, then that is kind of bullshit. Okay, Andreas, just want to finish off my favorite one. You probably know the author of this chart. What is going on here?
So many lines. Is it from pain? So this is financial crisis one. Financial crisis, boom. Negative divergence, blow off top. A bell is ringing. So remember to listen for the bell. I mean, my point here being, you hear this all the time. Some of these guys have been calling for a recession for four years. If you're positioned for a recession...
you would take a very, very defensive positioning. If you had done that for the past four years, how much money would you have missed out? You need a drawdown of 60% to be back at square one, right? I mean, even if you're right on this, you're wrong all the rest of the time and you're missing out on so much the rest of the time. You know,
It would be hilarious if the recession arrived straight after us. But everything in my business cycle framework points towards an acceleration of the global economy. So manufacturing going up, meaning that sure, we can get some pockets of recessionary labor market developments here and there. We'll probably get it in the U.S.,
Donald Trump is not a recessionary precedent in any way. He'll allow this...
credit creation in the private sector and all of that to you know basically go on a tier the next two three years and if you look at the private credit creation across the globe but in particular in the us we're starting to see some signs of a pickup meaning that more money will basically be thrown at the economy so no it's not recession time no please send us more of these charts you can see these hilarious uh cherry picking charts of the recessions coming and if the recession is coming well
Let's all remember then, if the recession is coming, the printer is coming as well. And that's very important. We want the printer. Okay, guys, that's all we have for you. Sorry, we didn't get to all the questions. I'm sure we'll try and set up even more time for questions next week. I had to pack up a schedule here. So thanks all for joining in. Remember to check out the Pro Macro offering from Real Vision, where you can get access to all our research
Also check out our webpage on Stainless Research and stainlessglobalmacro.com for our own strategy. That's all for this week. Thank you, Andreas. Thank you very much, Michael. And thank you all for watching. We'll be back next week. If you liked this episode, I'd love for you to head over to realvision.com forward slash join for a free membership. Start your journey today to unfuck your future. Just one click away.