Serial S02 - Ep. 8: Hindsight, Part 2
35:33 Share

This forecast is supported by U. S. bank. At U. S. Bank, when they say they're in IT with you, they mean IT.

Not just for the good stuff, that gray and openings and celebrations, although those are pretty great, but for all the hard work that took to get there, because together they're proving day in and day out that there is nothing as powerful as the power of us. Visit U. S.

Bank tok. Com to get started today. Equal housing lender member F. I C.

Previously not cereal.

Gentleman is a good word. He's a very much gentleman. Blue camp is a still kind of the traditional book camp.

Do you think he's lying?

And then all the sudden he .

shows up in his uniform 点。

From this american life and W B E Y, chicago is cereal, one story told week by week. I'm sarracenia.

I think the following would likely be a question at both commercial. Did the army screw up by accepting bow by deploying him to afghanistan? Just to remind you, both was separated from the coast guard in two thousand six after he became overwhelmed and had a breakdown during basic training.

The army, in order to enlist him two years later, would have to waive its usual standards, which he did. So the question actually is that the army recruiting process worked like IT was supposed to. Both separation from the coast guard wasn't labelled a psychotic st.

Charge on paper, but that's essentially what IT was. So did the army miss something? We talk to a retired army psychiatrist, doctor els's, with Cameron Ritchie.

SHE was deployed all over. He was chief of forensic psychiatry and also of impatient psychiatry at walter reed. And he was psychiatric consultant to the army surgeon general, the top mental health advocate position in the army doctor. Riches assessment of how all this went down with bow SHE thought the whole thing sounded pretty Normal, like standard practice. The fact that the army didn't have all the details about both hospitalization in the coast guard not uncommon, SHE said.

Getting access to more detailed medical information, especially between branches of the military, in this case coastguard and army, was hard because the military's network system wasn't so hot, information sharing was incomplete, but he also didn't feel like anything we told her about. Those coastguard situation would have been disqualifying, even if the army had known and had fa. Mental health evaluation, as the coast guard doctor recommended, even if they had been assessed.

I say an army doctor, J, I said, IT probably would have been one session. And unless you showed obvious outward signs of psychoses or something like that, you're really, depending on the potential recruit to self report any psychological problems. So it's quite possible both would have been oed regardless.

At the end of the day, doctor riche told us the best assessment for whether someone's gonna make IT in the army doesn't happen in the recruitment office anyway. IT happens during the sustained high pressure test of basic training. And bow did really well in army basic training. So that's one view. Now, for a second opinion.

somewhere, the always drop.

this is doctor Michael vldb OS. He's a clinical psychologist using the air force for about seven and a half years. And he worked in the seer program, which teaches survival, evasion, resistance and escape.

He knows bow, in fact, value OS LED, the sea's psych team that helped to innovate by red after his rescue. The first few weeks when bow is at the hospital in germany, two things, olivo s has permission from boat to talk to me about their conversations. And also he was not officially both doctor.

His job was to reintegrate him, diagnose anything. He never even saw both medical record back then. So he's not breaking any doctor, patient confidential. All three things, I guess the last being all that he knows cares about them. So he's not just passionate on the question of what happens to him, but the Venus view is that the army recruit should have looked harder at both situation, should have asked more questions before signing him up, even if the recruit didn't have the particulars of both coast guard discharge in front of them or information about those hospitalisation, he says the mere fact that both had been separated at all from a branch of the military begged more scrutiny .

you know it's a pretty big deal to get separated military ah my family I would think this recruit would would be a little bit more concerned about that um and what are taking IT maybe refused that sorry to say hey um let me sure this guy is a good thing so we what he's because what .

a separation like bose tells you just on its phase is that for whatever reason this person couldn't hack IT in basic training in the army recruiters job is to send that potential recruit straight back into basic training, in both case the same situation he washed out of two years earlier. Finally, volvo says bow told him that the recruit did know about his problems in the coast guard because both says he told the recruit, both said he was afraid not to tell him, since not a good idea to keep things from the government.

You know, when I said, yeah, I told him everything and specifically I said, you told them exactly what happening. You broke down training and, you know, went to the hospital and you know, the incident in amErica and he said, yes, you know, I told him all these things as .

part of his application boat did a test that he had not consulted with a behavioral health care provider in the last seven years when general doll asked him about that, both said the coast guard treatment quote wouldn't have triggered the idea of consulting a psychologist on quote. Doll found that to be consistent with those other paperwork.

Since on his medical history form boat checked yes to the question of whether he'd ever received counselling of any type, he said he was thinking of counselling he'd had when he was ten years old. General dog concluded that the army recruit on paper did everything he was supposed to read. The codes follow regulations.

But in a footnote, doll seem to agree that this system isn't good enough, that both situation probably should have been looked at more carefully. He wrote that when you're deciding whether to replace someone, few things are more relevant than a prior separation. He, adequate IT seems inadequate that we would rely on an interview and an applicant statement to explain the details of prior service and not review the separation action.

暗 可。 And where was bose head at this time? It's funny once you hear how both thought about the military why he wanted to join. Hardly IT does help explain why he decided to walk off his post.

Did you did you think that you were going to be a career soldier?

Where I admit that my mind did get lost in Candy. I wanted to be a soldier, but I wanted to be a soldier. The facts, I wanted to be world, world to go.

I wanted to be your eighty hundred borger. yeah. I would have to be a sem soldier, fighter, war.

right?

Um I wanted to be you more than anything, I wanted to be come to fighter. Honestly, I love the idea of just basically your hands and that said, right go.

Loved Bruce lee when he was a kid that he was cool. He watched his movies later read his both studied asian warriors, especially semi. He learned about the bushi to code, which stresses honor and loyalty and self sacrifice.

In both childhood bedroom, his dad kept a collector set of old army manuals way a pie on a book shelf, said his dad loved military history. Both climbed up there and got the books down. Even when he couldn't read.

he had study the pictures. So I have been a solder in my mind. I was very much left in history, but that's where I ended up getting to having problems with, because I want is to be a soldier. But only option my head was to be in our modern soldier.

both ideal soldier. The one from history fights for a cause. Here he is completely personally committed to that soldier ralles behind military leaders that here he trusts.

The modern soldier turns out to have no choice about those essential aspects of combat. Instead, he's a brainless private that does whatever the government tells them to do, go here, go there, go fight these people. He's just a tool. That's how both saw IT. And the thing is, bow knew this was gonna the case when he signed up, he sort of knew that he thought he could handle that gogol f of meaning.

I was aware of that problem, and I was, I was every day.

if I, in order to play the game, you had to play by the rules as they were being, as they were, as they were.

not going to struggle every step of the way, you know, then what I did not have.

this is one of the things about both. He at once recognises that his expectations were unrealistic, but he see things differently from other people, but at the same time, he will fiercely defend his vision of how things should be. He does not let go, especially when IT comes to what he saw, afghanistan.

Do you think what you witnessed, what you were reacting to, was the army in especially bad way? Or was IT just the army being itself and kind of messed up as IT, you know, in a kind of average?

Where is that make any sense? Maybe IT was Normal. Maybe what I was looking at was simple, everyday army. However, the way I was looking at IT was, this is mess up. This shouldn't do you like this.

So here, regards of whether IT was, you know, off the chart from regular stupidity or thing with everyday to what I was looking at was problems. What I was looking at was things that needed to be a critics. So to simply say all of that shift, the Normal everyday army, right, and struck me off and think, who care? A huge problem that shouldn't be acceptable for anybody.

Mark's conclusion about bw, after all those months of talking to him, he's not a conscientious objector, but he's also not your casual deserter who throws up his hands and just says, I don't care about any this matter here mark thinks he's the opposite of that. These rare person who will act, rightly or wrongly, IT turns out, but still he will act according to his principles. And his principles are wrapped up with the very institution that so many people now feel. He betrayed the disillusion .

ment of somebody that really .

believes in the army.

He's somebody that thinks that military leadership is of a sacred position. He wants the army to be Better.

right? If the military .

is huge for him, right? IT represented something. There's got to be a Better word than huge. But IT represented something very powerful to him, even before he joined, and to his sense of himself as a man, to his relationship, to his country, to all sorts of kind of big identity questions that were floating around for him. And it's still really important to him. He still kind of wants his day of reckoning with those values that in a way why he hasn't taken them more pragmatic group through all this, which would just be to try to stick your hands out and say, whenever you guys say, like guilty.

just me get.

yeah, yeah. I think he doesn't want across the line of thing. I had no point.

which is not to say that bow wants all this attention on him now he wasn't seeking this big in audience and by the way.

he's not asking to be some kind of like power bear he just wanted. He didn't bow, never wanted. The discussion is happening now, right? His whole goal was to talk to was like an international dispute. He wanted to talk to people .

in the military.

He there was actually a reporter that was sent to that was like embedded something with his unit that was hanging around there. And it's like he pulled the reporter aside and said, eh, get a lot of this, just make a great story he didn't do that. He wanted to be heard within the military. So obviously that didn't happen. And obviously he behaved in away, which run counter to like every single military ever known since the dawn of time, which is, you know, you don't you don't walk away from your from your brother so he's not a great messenger for his message but also IT makes that kind .

of interesting.

In both case, no one sight coming, him walking off lucky did because is so unthinkable. But a few people say they did start to see signs that boo wasn't totally okay. At the september hearing in bose case, greg leader, men, bose weapons squad leader, testified that at some point he noticed something was up with bow.

Quote, IT started to kind of feel that he wasn't adJusting to the deployment like the rest of the guys were. And quote, motherland said he wasn't incredibly alarmed, but he figured he out to say something to one of the hiero's about IT, just in case one day he's on a patrol somewhere south east tip shana. And he finds themselves sitting next to his first sergeant public human quote.

And so I told for sergeant that, you know, I thought that sergeant bergdoll should chat with somebody, you know, whether be combat stress or a chaplain or even if IT we're just, you know, the company commander, just sit down and hey, man, how's everything going? Both lawyer as leader man, how human has responded to his suggestion? I'm just gonna do you that part of the transcript answer first surgeon said that he didn't want to he didn't want one of his guys to tell him about what was wrong in his company.

So IT was not my place to tell him if he had problems inside of his company. question. I think when we interviewed you, you had even more colorful language of what he said.

Could you tell us that? sure. He said, fuck off. He said, shut the fuck up. No one needs to hear what a fucking e five has to say about a guy in my company and I said, Roger, for sergeant. In his report, general doll includes a statement from humans who says he doesn't recall this conversation with leatherman en or any conversation like that, and that boat quote showed no red flags or emotional problems as far as I could tell unquote. Both friends said from his messages and letters home they could telly wasn't very happy with how things were going in afghanistan.

And in retrospect, you can sort of see his thoughts turning plans forming on june twenty seventh, just three days before both left, he wrote a letter to his parents wanting, in which he sounded pretty disgusted with how the army was Operated in afghanistan. He went a more loving letter to a girl he was romantically involved with. He wrote group emails. One was titled, who is john god? His friend .

chat was on that email. Okay, here we go.

You know, john golt is a character from atlas rug. The very first line of the book is, who is john god? And after about a thousand pages, he finally learned that john golt is this genius industrialist who sort of single handily has shut down the world's economy.

In order to fix IT, he stops the machine. In the book, he finally revealed himself delivering, I could do not, a sixty page speech, laying out his phone, sophy, or rather, iran philosophy. And honestly, just as an exercise, you can grab almost any sentence from that john golt speech and apply IT to what bow ended up doing.

For instance, quote, a code of values accepted by choice is a code of morality. And quote, and now just for kicks, strikes, say, the bushido code apart, that teaches, that is your duty to try to write a moral wrong regardless of whether you'll succeed. That maybe a pot cocktail if your bow.

Here's the text of bose during twenty seventh email. Quote, IT is not the being a value who fails the system. IT is the system that has failed the man, for man should not stupid fit the system, but the system should be made and remate to fit the man who holds value as worth.

I will serve no bandit nor liar. I know john gold and understand this life is too short to serve those who compromise value in its ethics. I am done compromising.

He's very nick red. That email, along with everyone else. We're usually like, or did you think like this is a bow, like sorting through being bow?

yeah. This is also the kinds of things he would .

say kim Harrison was on those emails to and had gotten other messages from both, and he was starting to worry. He said he could tell he was frustrated that he thought a situation was dangerous, that he was trying to hold themselves together. Here's he's writing these things, these notes, sending e mail.

He's sending all these scripted things. He's in a state of mind was obvious to me where you know mentally where he was that I was stretched IT was on the precipice I mean, where yeah a person can make bad choices like really bad choices. I don't think you know it's not suicidal or that kind of then at all.

He was just he's frustrated his on edge and not really completely logical in his right mind. But is this what you understood at the time that are using this in hindside? Now that you've talked to a more, this was clear to you, really clear.

yeah. A few days later, some army people show a Better door to tell her boys missing just a day or two. After that box arrives at her house from boo, he'd sent IT from afghanistan. It's got his computer, his ipod is kindle, a journal and a copy of ala shock.

It's been pretty widely reported that at both military hearing, his lawyer said this carefully phrase, but also somewhat vague thing regarding bose mental health. He said a quote, neutral army psychiatry board has now concluded that back in june two thousand nine that sarchin bergdoll posses a severe mental disease or defect. And quote, this last week, I finally found out what he meant by that.

In may of last year, both defense team asked for, which called a seven or six sanity board a mental health assessment in connection with the charges against both an army forensic psychiatrist, a well regarded doctor named Christopher lang met with bow and give a diagnosis schizo typical personality disorder that he said boat would have had as of the time of the alleged misconduct. And i'm guessing this too will be part of both defense at the court martial proceeding. Doctor valdano s, the series psychologist to nose bo, said that when he heard this diagnosis, he thought, yeah, I think they hit the .

the head does that very much. If you know some of the things that these struggles with IT to premier, a lot of what's going on, you see this a lot play out to his life now, from development through his teenagers to your dollar d, that really does tell the story of a boat. Unfortunately, you know.

again, we gave out, if you knows, permission to talk about this with me. He describe the basic characteristics.

Folks who who were diagnosed with simple table personality disorder um but generally folks who who would rather be owners, you know they sort of black host friends um they incorrectly interpret then um including feeling like external events have personal meaning to them um you they dress some peculiar ways, the centric no belief in for special powers using perceptual alterations um persisted and excessive for social social anxiety you know which uh really strong with with both grand .

ideas about his future, about his capabilities, the romantic adventures he wanted to make happen. Bolivio says. Those all fit the profile, he said. For anyone with a psychiatric illness like this, symptoms tend to get worse when you're on stress.

One of the major symptoms is paranoia and the potential to misinterpret situations ebola vo says it's not a stretch to say that's probably what happened when bow was deployed to afghanistan, where it's actually dangerous. It's obviously stressful. Bo's not super tight with the guys in his unit. He started to think his battling commander is against them, might even send them on a suicide mission, which is very paranoid thinking. And that all leads to a decision that isn't well entirely saying by that point.

I think the piano at all kind to push them over the agent. He he said, i'm doing IT when you start thinking about the idea of him being Jason born and you know him in doing special Operations that sort of fed into that whole narratives that you know i'm going i'm going to be able to do this. I'm gonna go and and and and bring the help and not really thinking through the ramifications of of walking alphabet into basically into the taliban um for most of us IT would be an absolute a out of an absolute boundary for us to say hi, even if unfruitful ted with my command, even if not frustrated with dismission, frustrated with the army um there's still something I think biologically is going to keep us from, you know, literally walking off, uh.

debase right, like just self preservation at that point of kicker.

you know and so for him to actually do that, you have to think you like, wow, how could he had them? You know. And when you look at the whole total picture, IT starts to make sense.

Well, we know things that what happened with bow at the coast guard, what happened in afghanistan, that's all the peace.

The army knows about this diagnosis. At the september hearing, the army prosecutor, major markets courts, gave a preview of the army's thinking on the subject. SHE read allowed one of the key points from the psychiatrist doctor lands report quote that in two thousand nine, at the time of the alleged criminal misconduct, the accused was able to appreciate the nature and quality and wrongfulness of his conduct. Unquote, in other words, mental illness are no both should be held responsible for his actions.

The other day, I checked back in with mark to see if the diagnosis made him think differently about anything.

I guess it's it's an interesting data point. I don't know .

that it's the .

north star of the story.

Mark feels that he already knew walking off was not a rational thing to do so putting a label on both way of thinking didn't really change much for um I told mark that for me the diagnosis maybe let go of any lingering ing doubts I had about the truthfulness of both account like all the details that didn't add up well, if you're paranoid and doing some magical thinking, of course the details don't add up IT makes me believe him that he really was in his mind trying to raise an alarm mark already believed but though so aside from illegal defense mark wasn't sure the diagnosis made much of a difference. And he worried, in fact, that once they heard the diagnosis, people, maybe people like me, would disregard everything, but was saying about his military experience.

I do think that for you, the diagnosis IT IT .

makes him more .

incredible to you, but I also means you take him less seriously. I think as a as a kid with opinions, you know as like an american soldier with opinions.

no, I don't think that's quite right. I think I think at his assessments in a general way, like the like, I think we can all agree like the warn afghanistan, this has not been a success, right? I guess I more think he was kind of right by accident.

Oh, right. What does that mean? Right by accident?

Like he sort of happens to be right, but not he's not specifically right in the particular instances. He's necessary giving us examples of the overall failure.

but he is responding to real data points, right? I mean, he's not thinking that stuff just from his from his cat log cabinet. Idaho.

I guess. But if we mean, again, I know we we've been argued about on them before, but I feel like, you know, his beef with all now remember, isn't like we never should have gone up there in the first place. We never should, you know, I mean, his beef really at the end of the day, his biggest complaint is this feeling of our commander doesn't care about our welfare. And in fact, I was to the point where he who is may begin to send us on a suicide mission to get rid of us because we bad for his reputation, right? Like that's not no.

I mean, there's a lot of different judgements that are stacked on top of each other. And the last one is is is just deeply paranoid in you can reject IT on its face. I don't think there is a commander in the U.

S. Armed forces who would do anything remotely like wood bow is suggesting. Okay, so that I just think is just but the other but the judgments that proceed that that may be this commander has other priorities in IT besides purely the welfare of his soldiers.

I think that's clearly on the face of IT. True, because he dated, put american lives at risk to retrieve equipment. And that is part of the calculation of war. And you can talk to people and up and down the chain of command. And i'll say, yes, should like that happens all the time where you weigh someone's life against a piece of equipment. And that may be an everyday calculation, but that doesn't make IT any less fucked up, especially if you're the kid that is whose life is being, wait to get the equipment back.

Here's where mark and I diverge a little. He links posed personal experience more directly to the problems of the world than ideal. He wants to be careful to separate what boss saying from hub o is in a case like this, though, that's the rub.

Mark sees that I I keep going back to to something that somebody said to me a long time ago, which was like, I kind of agree with everything he said, but I still want to punch in the face, you know?

It's like that line from the big law. Ski, you're not wrong. Water, you're just an asshole. I've heard something a king to that sentiment from a bunch of the soldiers who served with bow.

He was not. So I mean, the leader was also know he's right about what the shit we all talked about. We all .

worried about IT. That's darell handsome. Does the fact of his, what he describes as his good intentions matter to you?

Yes, but I know. But IT intention like that is not ever justified to me. It's something so huge and such a big decision in that cause, so many consequences. With that, I feel like you would have to be god to make that kind of decision he made like a god like decision.

I want to be careful not to suggest all the soldiers we talk to are in lockstep here. Some of them, even when we talk to them last summer, said they had already forgiven, but and moved on. Others said, theyd never get over IT in the past week or two, I producer dan and I checked in with about a half dozen soldiers.

See, if anything, the'd heard from both so far in the podcast had made them feel differently. Some said they still thought he was lying about why he left. Others said they believe him now and are trying to forgive what he did, but they just can't quite get there. Here's ben Evans.

He may have had the greatest intention .

of the world.

But yeah, I just don't. I can't. Yes.

I do.

Yes.

I talked to john thermal for a while recently. John's mother is a theory, and like a lot of veterans, he's also had counselling to help him deal with the aftermath CT of deployment. So I thought he'd a little more touchy feely on the question of bose mental health.

I wanted to know if a diagnosis would help john not to say that what boded was OK, but whether diagnosis would help john forgive bo. Just personally, I got pretty pushy with john about IT. He was a really good sport.

You know, we all experience the same thing and we didn't walk off.

I know, I know, but you're saying we all experience the same thing and we drove on yeah and what i'm saying to you is you didn't well.

yes, we didn't see him from his lands.

You know, yes, he he was getting scared .

by IT and you weren't .

like you're not perceiving danger in those repair minds and .

he is yeah yeah and I I I mean, I don't think there was danger .

in those really that we're not arguing whether he's correct. We're not arguing whether he's correct.

Yeah I really, really, really try to see IT from his side through his lens. And I understand that he and I have very different brains, perception or not. I mean, I stock and never forgive him.

I can't. And it's on principle. He he broke that intimate bond that we all share with each other.

It's not something you can ever come back from. I don't care where your head was though. You still fucking did IT. You walked off and you betrayed us.

It's like you stopped there .

yeah that's IT stops there and that's just that. That's the infant train in me taking.

I'm a died in the world civilian from my family of civilians. My father was in the army and or or two, but he didn't deploy overseas. The only war stories I remember him telling me we're about like carousing and denver, sorry, dad.

So IT wasn't immediately obvious to me why some of the people both served with or not even just mad, hurt, deeply hurt in some cases. What I understand now is that that bond, that brotherhood, they feel it's not just actually what that is a cliche, but it's also profoundly true. I think about IT this way in my life, who would die for me, really, my mom? maybe.

Who would I die for my kids? And so imagine you're in a platoon. You become so close, so fast to all these guys around you.

You recognize each other, other's cough or they're silwan in the dark. You would die for the other guys in your botot. Even if you don't like them, you would do IT and they would die for you.

It's not even hypotheses ticals that happens all the time. And because of that, personalities aside, these guys become family to one another. If you walk away like boat IT, you break the promise you all have made to each other.

You undermine the whole enterprise. Your family starts to crumble when you need at most. And that's what the soldiers say happen during the search for bow.

His friend Chris ingles said IT was like the soul of their potent, just dyin' LED people shrank into themselves even afterwards. Second, platon felt like they were blamed for bow, leaving that they were sort of vanished from the larger family of the italian, a sergeant. Everyone told us they just loved a guy named Larry.

I was moved out of the platon and replaced by commander who was to put a gently, much stricter after helping with afghan elections in August of two thousand nine, the bottle on went on to a town called mota and embedded with afghan n security forces. And they did well enough there that they got accommodations in a visit by general micro stal. But still, overall, a lot of them just felt robbed like their whole deploy, yet lost its meaning. When I talked to darl hanson again a couple weeks ago, he said after hearing the podcast, he's soften some toward bow.

I don't have as much hate as I do towards them OK, even though the world knows girl hands and would have shot them, which I spent what of I went hum today, but I would have at the time, and I think all you know, but today had very shagger hands. You like, do you think about next time? You know, for way to do, think about, think about IT a little bit more. You know, was IT worth IT.

Almost all the soldiers we talked to said they still thought both should go to commercial. And mark, though he thinks it's taking too long, also said that makes sense for boat to go through the military justice system. After all, mark says the united states did put a lot of time and money and energy into getting back back, and that says that should be. But we did take extraordinary measures next time on cereal.

Serials produced by Julie snider, dana chivas and me in partnership with mark boal, Megan ellison, huggin grand, Jessica whisperd page one and any party pictures our glasses are editorial al advisor witney danger field as our digital editor research by Kevin garnett, fact checking by Michelle Harris, copy at in by Emily conne is our line producer. Our music is composed by nick thorn, fit mires and mark phillips.

This shows mixed by cable and school Christian Taylor ors, our community editor, other serial staff setton alease bergson and kibera henderson. Special thanks this week to JoNathan man heva and rich oris strange bird labs for his great work keeping our website going strong. Check IT out.

There is lots of stuff on that website right now, the address serial podcast dot org. Stay tuned for a preview of our next episode. At first, with inter card, you can get all your holiday essentials delivered in as fast as thirty minutes, whether it's the White elephant gift everyone will want to steal, or the secret ingredient that makes great ramage's concise. So great just of the inter to find recipes, shop ingredients and whip of dishes so delicious, your anson uncles will forget to ask about your love life. Enjoy free delivery on your first three orders, service fees in terms apply.

This procs is supported by fema, a modern design company, crafting simple elevated furniture from premium ecofriendly materials designed to enrich your space. Dumas core collection, the classic bed next stressor and pillar bookshelf, combines japanese joining with thoughtful design for timeless style and lasting quality. Assembly is quick and easy, taking despised minutes and no tools required to explore the full collection and get one hundred dollars off your first bed sumer dot co, that's T H U M A dot C O serial production .

of this american life and W B E Z chicago up on the next epo de of real.

I had previously had discussions with somali warlords, asian dictators and afghan insurgent leaders. So given that range of context, I didn't find anything unusual about this.

I thought I like simple state powder. People do want to deal or not.

And he's done more serious time than anyone could possibly imagine.

I mean, the release video, and holly, shut this bow again.

The old strategy to win this with money, to win this with soldiers, with military might, was doomed.