A Taut Trade Friendship & A Temporary Relief for Autos 3/6/25
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This is SquawkPod, and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's podcast, following the tariffs, the tick-by-tick, the retaliations, and the end goal. If the goal is to bring manufacturing and everything somehow back to America, most of the CEOs that I've been talking to this week say this would have to go on for like two years.

A month-long tariff pause for autos and a frustrated neighbour to the north. Candidate for Canadian Prime Minister, Carina Gold, joins us. We have had such a long-standing, important relationship as Canadians and Americans. Let's work together. These tariffs are not the way to do it.

Plus, where do swing voters stand 45 days into the Trump administration? Pollster Frank Luntz held a focus group on the president, Elon Musk, and the communication out of D.C. and to the rest of the world. What President Trump is trying to do has significant support, and it continues. What they're critical of is the way that he communicates it.

It's Thursday, March 6th, 2025, and SquawkPod begins right now. Stand Andrew by in three, two, one. Cue Andrew. Good morning. Welcome to SquawkBox right here on CNBC. We are live at the Nasdaq Market site in Times Square. I'm Andrew Ross Sorkin along with Joe Kernan. Becky's off, but we got a lot going on. You and I have not seen each other in a little bit, so we got a lot to talk about.

But we got the blue thing. We got the blue shirts. Blue shirts, red ties. Similar ties. Is this blue or purple? I can't tell. Is it purple? That's a purple tie. Okay, it's purple. Purple with some lavender dots. I think you would wear this tie. I would, actually. That's not always the case. That's true. We have issues about ties. Yeah, we do. And a lot of things. Issues about a lot of things. Let's go over where we are.

OK, tariff headlines are a lot to keep track of this week, so let's recap. 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada, plus an extra 10% on China, went into effect on Tuesday. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick came on Squawk Box and said it was about a drug war more than a trade war.

Of course, if they can stop the flow of fentanyl and they can prove to the president they can stop the flow of fentanyl, then of course the president can remove these tariffs. For what it's worth, Peter Navarro, a trade and manufacturing counselor to the White House, said the same thing this week. Lutnick, for his part, has been calling the tariffs, quote, fluid in multiple interviews over the past week, presumably leaving the door open for changes. And changes came, but...

But we'll get to that. Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called President Trump's 25% tariffs, quote, "dumb." He highlighted the country's work to curb the flow of fentanyl over the border and then retaliated with 25% tariffs of Canada's own. China did the same thing, announcing a 15% tariff on imports of things like chicken, wheat, cotton from the United States, as well as a 10% tariff on dairy, pork, soybeans, and other produce coming from the U.S.

US stocks sold off on fears of a trade war, and they were led by automakers who were concerned about prices throughout their supply chains. Retailers like Target CEO Brian Cornell said costs are going to go up for consumers too and very soon.

We know for certain categories, like fruits and vegetables, where during this winter season, we depend on Mexico for a significant amount of supply. Those are categories where we'll try to protect pricing, but the consumer will likely see price increases over the next couple of days.

Now, automaker leaders from Ford, GM and Stellantis jumped on a call with President Trump. And after that, Trump granted a one month pause on tariffs on cars coming into the United States from both Mexico and Canada. So in the mix, we've got fentanyl, autos and the 200 billion dollars a year that President Trump says we're losing to our northern neighbor. Phew. OK, let's get back to Joe and Andrew.

I've got some issues. I have some issues. And I don't know why you don't just say what you mean and mean what you say. The whole fentanyl sort of, I think it's red herring, especially for Canada. Yes. I saw your interview with Mr. Lutnick where you asked the question. But do you know, why not talk about milk, 270%?

Cheese, 245% tariffs. Butter, 200. Why not just say this is why not do the reciprocal thing with that? Why? It's almost an excuse to pick on.

I don't know, the automakers or, and then the 200 billion, no one can figure out what he means by that, that there's a 200 billion shortfall. That's not even what the trade imbalance is. I don't even know what that number is at this point. I'm sorry to hit you with all this anti-administration, just right out of the box. - You want me to push back starting immediately or what? - That would be weird if you push back on me saying I don't like some of this stuff. Do you wanna do that?

that's the beauty of uh we never know because we never agree on it no no i think you're right i don't know what look i don't the thing that i can't figure out about this is given what just happened with the autos meaning pushing that out it just continued to extend this situation from a negotiating standpoint at what point do companies if the goal is to bring manufacturing everything somehow back to america

Most of the CEOs that I've been talking to this week say this would have to go on for like two years before you'd actually make the decision to do it. But the question is, is it politically palatable for anybody to do this for two years? And maybe that is the right thing. Maybe on the other side there's a rainbow. I don't know. And I can...

It's cheaper to make things other places. But I can understand how we should... To have Americans with these great jobs, I can understand that maybe things cost a little more, but people aren't going to like... Just get comfortable with that idea that things might be a little more expensive. As far as Canada, I think...

We take some responsibility for being having so many drug addicts in this country. I mean, I'm not blaming it on them. But 40 pounds of fentanyl versus 22,000 pounds coming up through Mexico. I don't know. How do you get to do they need to get to zero? And can it maybe there's more. Maybe that's maybe that's all. I don't know enough about it. Maybe that's all we were able to do.

to seize at the border. Maybe there's a lot more coming in. But it just seems to me, and I saw Navarro on again yesterday, and they're just going to hammer that, stick to that, hammer it so that they can keep them on. And here's where I'll get to you. It reminds me of the Democrats and the way they will say something again and again and again that they know is not true. And it doesn't matter because it becomes a talking point. Both, and I don't like it. I wish neither party would do it. ♪

Let's talk about the automakers, though, because this is, of course, the central issue, at least at the moment. President Trump granting now automakers a one-month reprieve from the new 25% tariffs that were imposed on Canada and Mexico. Shares of Ford, GM, and Stellantis all ending the day on Wall Street much higher.

In statements, the three companies thanking Trump for his support. At a news briefing, the White House press secretary saying that Trump was open to providing additional exemptions from tariffs. The reports say Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unwilling to lift Canada's retaliatory tariffs unless the U.S. rescinds all of its new levies. Now, late yesterday, the Agriculture Secretary, Brooklyn,

Brooke Rollins told Bloomberg the president is considering tariff exemptions for some agricultural products from Canada and Mexico. So all of a sudden we're starting to see the carve out system, right? You know, if you do this, you do that. And this was what we all thought. You know, when Apple announced that it was going to spend $500 billion in the U.S., you can imagine that they're going to hope there's some kind of carve out for them later. We're going to talk a lot more about this very topic because it is, in fact, moving the markets this morning. Tariffs, the economy, everything else.

guess who is going to be here the treasury secretary scott besant tomorrow to discuss all of this and more squawk style squawk style i think he's gonna be sitting right there with the same place where he sat uh prior to actually getting the appointment for for treasury secretary campaign and you know the great thing about scott is that he managed money and knows he knows the market implications of all this stuff so um peanut butter 295 percent

Canada tariffs. You know, then you've got things like lumber, 20% shoes. The reciprocal tariff stuff, I kind of... Get behind. You can get behind that argument. I can kind of get behind that. It's like, you know, you're doing it to us. What do you want? What do you want from us? We're not patsies.

Elon Musk meeting privately with GOP lawmakers on Doge's cost-cutting efforts. Tesla CEO held gatherings separately with Republican senators and House members. Part of nearly the two-hour Senate meeting focusing on the presidential process known as a rescission package. The White House could potentially send one to Congress to codify Doge's spending cuts.

within out needing without me i should explain the sixty votes in the upper chamber multiple senators telling n_b_c_ news that must was surprised to learn there was a viable legislative path to making doge cuts prominent senator lindsey graham telling reports the most pumped his fist and dance when he heard

The news. Recision, just for me, is a little too close to recession. Recision? The words, you know. And we are talking about recession a lot now. Talking about rescission, he has been removing P cards. These are purchase cards. These are credit cards that are in the government. Hundreds of thousands of credit cards that apparently have been, you know, that people have in the government. I didn't see that. And that there are like thousands of these things that they're just turning the cards off because they aren't sure that the cards are actually attached.

to other people. And, you know, sometimes a credit card as you could have like a subscription or something on it. Look, this stuff. Yeah. As long as they're not turning off the wrong cards, I'm actually happy somebody's doing. Right. And the criticism that comes from from what he's doing. Some things that that they're turning off or have turned off, they realize, holy crap. Right. Probably don't want to turn off this. You know, whatever. We've seen some things rescinded quickly. It's not perfect.

It's not perfect. Maybe that's the way to do it. Turn it off and see what happens. Probably not the best way, but I don't know. Teas will be next. Next on Squawk Pod, we'll speak to one of our friends from the North, Canada Prime Minister candidate Karina Gold. She weighs in on the tariff battle, the border, and our longstanding friendship on the rocks. We just don't understand why we're being attacked like this when we have only ever been a good friend, ally, partner, and neighbor to the United States.

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Welcome back to Squawk Pod from CNBC, today with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Here's Andrew.

The Trump administration is saying it's going to exempt automakers for one month, that is, from recently imposed 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada. But Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reportedly will not lift retaliatory tariffs on the U.S. if President Trump leaves any tariffs unresolved.

on Canada in place. Auto trade between the US, Mexico and Canada totaled $345 billion last year. Joining us right now is Karina Gould, former Canadian government House leader who is now Liberal leadership candidate for Canadian Prime Minister. Welcome to the broadcast this morning.

My question to you is, what do you think the tariffs that the U.S. is imposing on Canada are really about? We've heard about fentanyl over and over again, but there are reasons, and they're not being articulated by this administration necessarily, but there are lots of tariffs that Canada already has on the U.S.,

Well, look, I don't think that these tariffs have a real objective in the sense of what Donald Trump is talking about. If he's talking about fentanyl, I mean, it's minuscule amounts that come from Canada into the United States. But if that's what he cares about, well, then let's put together an inspection team at the border to inspect every truck that goes south for fentanyl and every truck that comes north for illegal guns. That's one of the issues that we have as Canadians. So, look,

At the end of the day, these tariffs are unjustified. They are ill-conceived and they're hurting not just Canadians, but they're hurting Americans. And they're going to make the price of everything more expensive for American citizens. You didn't answer about it. The question was about the tariffs you already have. What about the tariffs on the U.S.? Meaning we talk about peanut butter or milk. The butter. I've got a long list, Karina.

Well, okay. But in fairness, what we're talking about with that is really minuscule. And there is not a trade imbalance when it comes to Canada and the United States. We have the free trade agreement between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico that has served...

our countries very, very well. It has enabled prosperity on both sides of the border. And so let's keep building things together. Let's keep doing stuff together. But why do you say there's not, you just said, and I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page. Maybe that's a polite way to put it. You said there's not a trade imbalance. Where do you get that from?

Well, that's correct. So the numbers that the president is putting out is just simply not true. When it comes to Canada and the United States, we build things together. We do stuff together. This is good for American businesses and it's good for Canadian businesses.

And let's keep building things and be strong together. That's something that we should be working towards as Canadians and Americans. And that is what has enabled North American prosperity. And I hope that that's something that we can continue to do. So as it relates to fentanyl, do you just think the president is lying to the public?

Well, there's no data to back up what he's saying. But what I will say is that we care about fentanyl. It's a scourge in our society as well. So we have put in place strong measures in Canada. Let's work together with the United States and make sure that we are keeping fentanyl out of both of our countries, because this is a crisis in Canada and it's a crisis in the United States. And I think there's more that we can do together on this.

But it's not about fentanyl coming in from Canada to the United States. There is very little fentanyl that goes south of the border. And so if that's the case, then let's work together to make sure that we are eliminating this scourge in both of our countries. Karina, the actual trade deficit with Canada was...

in 2024 was 63.3 billion, but it's mostly energy. And we need that. And in terms of services, we actually have a surplus in the United States with services.

But then there really are. I mean, you say the USMCA, you get above a certain point and there's really crazy tariffs on a lot of stuff. And it's not minuscule. It's people, vegetables, 100 percent, fish products, 100 percent, shoes, 30 percent, cocoa, 30 percent, sugar, 265 percent. I mean, physician, heal thyself. Get rid of why can't you get rid of those? And then then you'd be in a much better position to say we don't do anything wrong.

Well, let's look at what we're talking about. I mean, in terms of the major things that we are trading between Canada and the United States, you know, the U.S. depends on Canada for so many things. I mean, let's look at potash, right?

Canada provides 80% of potash to the United States. That is something that you depend on. You talked about energy. This is something that is important for the U.S. market. Let's have that conversation. These are things that the United States is putting tariffs on that are increasing the cost of everything for everyday American citizens. Let's make sure that we are having that conversation because at the end of the day,

President in the United States is making life more expensive for Americans. We would rather continue to have this relationship to be strong friends, be allies, as opposed to, you know, put the energy security, the food security, the national security at risk for both Canadians and Americans. We have had such a longstanding important relationship as Canadians and Americans.

Let's work together. These tariffs are not the way to do it. This aggressive economic action against Canada that has been your friend, your ally, your partner, our soldiers have fought and died together is not the way to go about this. Let's have a conversation. But this aggressive action has spurred Canadians who are generally a happy and kind people into a level of anger. What's the rationale, Karina, for all those tariffs that I've got 30 of them here and I

I have people writing in saying that they can't even sell their products in Canada. They have to be marked up two and a half times in Canada just to sell into that market.

What's the rationale? And that gives the perception that, you know, we're Patsy. We're big, strong, you know, biggest economy in the world down here. And you almost are benefiting from our largesse and our, you know, that's what you hear from President Trump all the time, that we're being taken advantage of. If you got rid of some of these tariffs, maybe there wouldn't be that perception. You'd have a much stronger arguing position.

Well, I mean, I don't think that the United States can say that Canada is taking advantage of the U.S. I mean, we have such a strong economic relationship. I mean, look at the big three. Look at the auto industry. I mean, this is a relationship that is symbiotic, that works well, that benefits people on both sides of the border. You know, we have

natural resources that the United States depends on that we sell to the US. I mean, we sell our energy at a much cheaper rate to the United States than what we would sell for it around the world. So there is a very good relationship, a very strong economic relationship that people on both sides of the border

uh... benefit from and that's the relationship that we want to continue with as canadians but right now we are feeling very attacked by this aggressive action and i have

seen this kind of patriotism in Canada where you have, you know, little old ladies going to the grocery store and choosing to buy Canadian products over American products, because quite frankly, we just don't understand why we're being attacked like this when we have only ever been a good friend, ally, partner and neighbor to the United States. Could you could you imagine removing any of the tariffs that you have on things like peanut butter and wine and beer and coffee and a

I mean, there is a list of things that Canada does have their own tariffs on.

Well, look, we negotiated an agreement with the United States. We negotiated NAFTA. We recently negotiated CUSMA. And so that's the agreement that we have put in place. And I have to say that as Canadians, we feel that the relationship with the United States, the trust has been broken because when we sign an agreement, we mean it and we live up to those standards. And what we're seeing from the president right now is that his signature on that agreement isn't worth

And so as Canadians, we're saying, hey, we came to an agreement. We negotiated these things already. And instead of you guys abiding by your end of the deal, you're now attacking us. So if you want to have a conversation, let's have a conversation. But this...

aggressive economic action is not the way to do it. You know, Canadians are known for apologizing, but we're not going to back down right now and we're not going to apologize for defending our economy, our jobs and our way of life. But what we do want to do is continue to have a strong relationship with the United States. We've always, you know, liked being your neighbor. We've always, you know, wanted to come visit the U.S. But now what we're seeing is Canadians canceling their American vacations because they're so afraid

offended and aggrieved by this action that we would rather settle things at the conversation table as opposed to with how this aggressive action is going. And we will have to retaliate because unfortunately we've been forced to.

Karina, I want to thank you for joining us this morning. Hope we get an opportunity to talk to you again. I don't know. I don't know, Karina, you know, vacationing in the middle of January and Nova Scot, I don't know, or out in one of the Western territories. We'll see. We'll see. Don't don't don't tickets for you to Florida.

You're headed over. Get your skis. They would like to go to Florida, but they feel right now. All right, we'll see. We'll see how long you stick with this. We'll see. Thank you. Thanks for having me. See you later.

Up next on Squawk Pod, how swing voters are thinking about President Trump's second term so far. Pollster Frank Luntz asked average voters about Trump and about Elon Musk. He's regarded as being smart, regarded as being insightful. What they're questioning is, does he have too much power? And is he enjoying too much of the slash and burn? Winning or losing American hearts and minds right after this.

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Digging an even larger hole next to that original hole. Unfortunately, TaxAct's filing software can't make taxes fun. But TaxAct can help you get them done. TaxAct. Let's get them over with. You're listening to SquawkPod. You're watching SquawkBox on CNBC. I'm Joe Kernan, along with Andrew Ross Sorkin. Becky Quick is off today.

But we're carrying on. We're going to talk about President Trump's messaging in his first six weeks in office. We got a pretty good distillation of it all. I think we got to see most of it on Tuesday night in various forms when President Trump addressed Congress. Our next guest spoke to voters after that speech to try to get their biggest takeaways. Joining us right now is pollster and political strategist

Frank Luntz. Frank, it's great to see you this morning. A lot of folks obviously watched this speech. For some, it was fabulous. For others, it was polarizing. For others, still, it was something else entirely. What was the biggest takeaway from what you learned from those who saw it that you polled?

What was exceptional, and we talked to the right group of people, these are individuals who voted for Trump once and rejected him at least once. So they're the definition of swing voters. They didn't mind that the speech was incredibly long. In fact, they enjoyed it. They did mind that the president focused too much, they felt, on Joe Biden and on the past, whereas they wanted to hear more about the future. They did not like the Democrats holding up paddles and yelling and all that performance

that I had been critical of Republicans when they did it to Joe Biden. Well, they didn't like the Democrats doing it to Donald Trump. They believe that this is a serious speech and it should be taken seriously. And as you see people standing up in the background, they don't want performance art. They want policy. The overall agenda...

I want to be clear about this. What Trump, what President Trump is trying to do has significant support and it continues. What they're critical of is the way that he communicates it. They don't want a rally. They don't want 2024 back again. They want a different president. Now that he's elected, they want him to perform on issues and policy, not on politics.

Frank, yesterday you spoke with more than a dozen voters across the country. I want to show some video from this, if we could, so people can see what's going on. My understanding was an even split between those who voted for Trump and former Vice President Harris in the election. And here's what they said about the influence, interestingly, of Elon Musk. What we're seeing is really smoke and mirrors. We don't really know how effective it will be

but we do know that he is an effective businessman. I think he's one of the smartest people in the world, but what makes you successful in the private sector does not mean that you can go in and clean out the government. Really, I think everybody agrees that there's a lot of waste in the government, but we need all hands on deck. Tiffany from Texas. I think he's a great businessman.

However, it reminds me of a kid walking in a room and just snatching stuff off of a table the way he's doing with the government. Frank, popularity of Elon Musk in all of this and to the extent that his popularity is either higher or lower than President Trump's, does it rub off either way? Well, I wouldn't use the word popularity. I would use the word credibility.

because his popularity has fallen significantly over the last few years. There was a time when he was the most popular business person in the whole country. But as far as credibility, he's regarded as being smart, regarded as being insightful.

What they're questioning is, does he have too much power and is he enjoying too much of the slash and burn? Now, make no mistake, Americans are fed up with waste, fraud, abuse, and particularly corruption in government. And they like the tone -- I'm sorry. They like the process. It's the tone that they don't like. It should be done out of regret, out of recognizing these are real people with real lives, real families, and they're losing their jobs.

No waste, but do it with a scalpel rather than a sledgehammer. - Frank, you always want to tone things down. You want people to be more civil and everything. And I know you said they want policy from Trump. They don't want the scorched earth. And we saw a lot of that the other night. It's just, I think that you look at the response from Democrats for this first six weeks or whatever it is,

He's almost it's almost like he's not going to turn the other cheek. And you've seen Chris Murphy. You've seen the paddles. You saw the guy shaking the cane. He's he's introduced articles of impeachment like 12 times already had to be escorted out. And I think a little bit of that frustration showed up with with Trump when he said there's not I could discover a cure for the worst disease in the world and you'd still sit on your hands. So and you've asked

I remember the last time I think I had seen about four years of just acrimony. And then once Republicans got in, he told me and Andrew, we got to be nice again. All of a sudden it's like, oh, now, you know, you allowed it to go on from the other side for three or four years. Now you're asking for civility when, you know, you see what I'm saying? Why should Trump at this point not not, you know, when he's treated one way, why not? Why ask him to turn the other cheek?

I understand that. And you're correct, by the way. The viewers really disliked, they saw this performance art, they saw it as a bad form of opposition. And they've been asking the Democrats now since the beginning of this administration, what is your alternative? As critical as I am of Trump's communication, the Democrats are much worse.

that for them there is no policy, there's only opposition. Obviously, I reach out to both parties in conversation in doing my job, and I hear nothing from the Democratic Party in communicating a coherent agenda, in communicating a coherent message. And in fact, what they decided to do with those paddles, what they decided to do with Congressman Greene was absolutely abhorrent to voters.

What the public is looking for right now, they believe that Trump's agenda is correct. They want illegal immigration to stop. They want accountability in Washington. They want safe streets, safe neighborhoods. They agree with what he's doing. And they disagree with the Democrats in where they stand.

All this is asking for is look forward, not look backward. Frank, what I want to know, though, is on the economic message and the question that I have about the tariffs, the uncertainty that the tariffs or even the possibility of tariffs create, depending on where you think we really are, what's going on in the stock market.

How the American public, how his voters feel about what's happening, you know, for a long time during the first term that he was in office, he used the stock market as a barometer of his own success. By default, if you looked at where the stock market is today, you wouldn't use that as he would. I imagine he wouldn't use this barometer. You don't hear him talking about it.

to the extent that there's going to be economic pain, even if it's temporary, and obviously you talked about Musk earlier, he talked about the possibility of temporary hardship with this hope that there's, you know, as I say, a rainbow on the other side, and maybe there is. Will the American public wait for the rainbow? And how much time does he have to do these things if in fact the markets and the economy are challenged in between?

So let me be clear, voters do not use the stock market as the measuring tool. They use the price of milk, the price of bread, the price of gas, the price obviously of eggs, and they are concerned that tariffs, in fact, the argument that had been made by the Harris campaign in October, that tariffs were a tax increase, voters now see this, Trump voters and Democrats.

But what they're asking for is, and I'll use the expression of a focus group participant, an eye for an eye, which is if other countries are doing it to us, they want us to do it to them. Even if it hurts them? They want fairness. And in fact, that's the word that I would- But Frank, the question is, will they pay for fairness? Because there's a cost to fairness. Fairness is not free. In fact, it's a tax on us. So the question is, when the cost of goods goes up-

Will they say, you know what? I'm thrilled to pay more for milk because guess what? Those Canadians, we're going to stick it to them. No, they're not thrilled. I want to be clear about this. They're not thrilled that prices have not come down. And that is their single greatest criticism of the president so far. But it's unfair. He's been president for what, six weeks? Give it time. Give it six months. Give it two years. The judgment date...

is November of 2026. If prices have come down by the midterm election, they will give him credit for it. What about employment, though, Frank?

I think there's an expectation even already that we may have a fall in employment on Friday when we get that number and how that is going to play politically. I mean, we were talking to Frank, interestingly, just about the month of January in terms of mergers and acquisitions. I use that because it's oddly a sort of interesting barometer of confidence in the boardroom, right? CEOs do deals when they have confidence and for better or worse, their confidence, weirdly, given...

all of the animal spirits and conversation about a deregulatory agenda was at the lowest point it's been since 2015 in January. What does that say about what's happening? So let me be candid. Voters aren't talking about jobs. I can't actually answer that question because it wasn't the top issue or the second issue, the third issue, or even the fifth issue.

You're raising something that I don't know because voters aren't talking about it right now. To them, the economy is all about affordability, not inflation, affordability. Can I afford the house? Can I afford, in particular, the car? And that's going to be the key component of tariffs. What does it do to auto purchases? Will people still be able to replace their transportation?

Andrew, what's been interesting about this interview is that the focus of Wall Street is different than the focus of Main Street. And that's something that people need to pay attention to. What's happening in the boardrooms is not what people are looking. But Frank, what I'm going to make an argument to you that that I think you may disagree with.

And I'm not saying the market always knows more than than than Main Street, if you will. But oftentimes the market is ahead of where the economy is. And so if the economy starts to move where the market is, I think Americans are actually going to start to pay. They may not pay attention to the market, but they'll pay attention to the underlying economics. That's fair. But I also want to emphasize that there is a difference between mom and pop stores. There's a difference between Main Street and small businesses and family businesses and

than there is with corporate America. And what you're pointing to right now is that there's this break, there's this division between them. And I'm suggesting to those who are watching,

That you need to pay attention to your consumers. You need to pay attention to those things that are small rather than just the shareholders, because in the end, it's this small. Right. What I'm saying to you is that I'm saying to you, if Walmart thinks that they're seeing softness in their customer and then actually either lowers prices or has to make moves, the small business, it's going to impact them, you know.

multiple, a multiple, a multiple because they don't they actually can't spread out the pain across a larger business. That's why this idea that there's somehow that Main Street somehow completely disconnected from Wall Street doesn't seem to make sense to me. Because you're looking at the long term and they're looking at today, next week and next month.

You're looking at people who are seeing the entire economy. And I'm listening to people whose entire economy is based on when they visit the gas station and when they visit. Right. And what I'm saying is that get that gas station is going to feel in three months. I'm sorry to say. OK, I'm sure you'll be doing the poll in three months and we'll talk about it. Yes. We'll need to have this conversation again. Thank you. OK, thank you. I think energy prices think they're going down as there's a.

Softness. Correct. Yeah. Well, they're going to be feeling at the gas station in a good way. Well, they'll feel at the gas station in a good way, but the small business that owns the gas station is going to feel it the hard way. Exactly.

That's the podcast for today. Thank you for tuning in. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin, weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 a.m. Eastern. To get the smartest takes and analysis from that TV show right into your ears, plus a little extra, follow Squawk Pod wherever you're listening now. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day. We are clear. Thanks, guys.

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