Stalled, Violated, or Concerning? USTR’s Greer on China 5/30/25
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Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. Tariffs on again. The whiplash of federal courts' response to the Trump administration tariff policy. Reciprocal levies back. We talked to the U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer in a wide-ranging interview on the policy seesaw and talking to China. We've been very focused on monitoring Chinese compliance, or in this case noncompliance, with the agreement. And we're very concerned with it.

And the fast-growing wellness company worth more than a billion dollars. AG1 CEO Kat Cole says supplements have the greens we need. We tested healthy individuals, standard American diet, athletes, non-athletes, people with GI issues, and all across the board it showed we have nutrient gaps.

Plus, all the rest of today's news that got us squawking. It's Friday, May 30th, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now. Stand and abide in 3, 2, 1. Cue Andrew. Good morning and welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We are live at the Nasdaq Market site in Times Square. I'm Andrew Ross working along with Joe Kernan. Becky's on assignment this morning. Looking at the S&P did finally close down.

a little yesterday but it was a weird session yesterday was it not uh now to the latest uh and it has to do with this relatively small moves though we were up 400 that's sounds like a lot but not so much then we were it was weird because it was during the session that they were back on and i admitted to myself that i i wasn't just ecstatic that the court had had said you know i'm i don't like tariffs but we've we've come this far and

we're negotiating with all these trading partners and if you just take away any impetus or motivation for them to come to the table after doing all this,

So I almost felt like I... So you were happy that the court put it back in place. Kind of. And then I saw, and I didn't realize, there are, and I was watching Scott Besson, I was watching, and we'll have Jameson Greer on today. There's, if this doesn't work, there are other provisions. There's a hundred ways to do it. There are other ways to do it. Well, that was a little bit what Michael Froman was telling us yesterday. Yeah, it was. There are other methods. And in the past, executive power...

has been respected, I think, a little bit more. This is Trump, so he's like a one-off for a lot of people. And he's a one-off for other reasons, too. People that like a lot of these court injunctions say, well, he's so crazy, the stuff that he's doing. Of course there's many more than in previous presidencies. But then again, in the past...

You have seen some deferral to the chief executive, to the president, on tariff matters. I was going to say, yesterday we discussed how presidents often, Democrats too, push things beyond the limits. Beyond the limits. And who's there? But tariffs. But who's there to stop them? The courts. And that happened, by the way, with the student loan issue. It did. Which I think we all, I mean, I don't know if everyone agreed, but you and I actually agreed on that together. Immigration issues, sanctuary city, there's a lot of it. But tariff issues...

That's something that was left. If the chief executive of the country wants to do some of these things, they've gotten a lot more leeway in the past. And, you know, whether Congress needs to to actually legislate for this to happen, it's unclear. There's been some legislation in the past that they're going to rely on now to say, hey, there's a 1974 rarely used provision that they're going to use. The I.I.P.E., whatever that was, the emergency when that that might have been.

A bridge too far, but there's other ones to fall back on that West and that's what I think from and was talking about We'll talk to go about that too, but the latest court ruling it blocked the sweep the reciprocal Tariffs sweeping reciprocal tariffs that didn't block all of them though There's some that was still in effect the federal appeals court temporarily put that really ruling on hold while it considers the administration's challenge to

to that lower court decision. The order didn't rule on the merits of the case, just gives the Trump administration time to make its case so it could still come down on the side of no tariffs.

The White House had asked the appeals court to step in on an emergency basis. They were also said that they were prepared to ask the Supreme Court to intervene to avoid irreparable national security and economic harms that are at stake. In a long post on Truth Social yesterday, President Trump blasted the Court of International Trade and asked whether their ruling was purely a hatred of Trump. Uh-oh, talking in the third person, or in the first, it's third person again.

Do you ever do that? Sorkin says this or Sorkin. I know someone who does that. My Instagram account. Yeah. The name of it. Yeah. Not chosen by myself is Sorkin says. It's Sorkin says. Like I said, like anyway. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't see. Kernan doesn't go for that. Kernan. Yeah. Wait a minute.

I just did it. He also slammed the Federalist Society for recommending one of the judges he appointed during his first term who ruled against him in the tariff case. So he's I didn't see that part. The Federalist recommended. So he said, OK, so he did it. And now he's mad that it's like a David Souter type situation. It sounds like.

Meantime, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson saying that U.S.-China trade talks are, quote, a bit stalled and require President Trump and China's President Xi to speak directly. He made those comments in an interview with Fox News. Now, Secretary Besson saying he expects more talks with China in the next few weeks and said there may be a call between the two leaders, quote, at some point. I watched that entire interview. And I guess if someone had to get it besides us, I was glad it was Brett Baer on his show.

But I was a little bit shocked because he said, when Brett asked him about China, he said, those talks are stalled currently. And that's not, you ask one of the other people in the administration, even like the press secretary or something, what's going on with China? Are talks stalled? They would never, ever tell you the truth and actually admit it's something that doesn't sound good for the administration. Right.

They usually have a way of getting around it or saying it in a way where they don't. He just came out and said it. Yeah. Unless you think Scott wants the public to know that and wants Chinese to know that. Remember when he got back, we were all excited about what he and Jameson Greer said about what went on in China. So I figured things were moving along. Yeah. So for him, yeah, you said it's...

Not happen. But but I know. But not because I don't want to put this. I know. But you're going to want to. Is that just because you're trying to read the tea leaves? What's actually happening here? He leaves China. You're your default position is skepticism. That's fine. It should be as a journalist. I ever become a journalist. I might employ the same. I don't see that happening, though. But I just thought it was.

Just watching him, and I still like when he talks, because his words are calming, and I think you get, you always want the truth, even though I don't think you can handle the truth. That's true. But even though you want the truth, we rarely get it, and I think we get it from him. That I do. Really sucking up to him to get him back on the show.

President Trump said he's going to hold a press conference today at 1:30 p.m. with Elon Musk in the Oval Office. He said this will be his last day, but not really, because he will always be with us, helping all the way. Elon is terrific. Two other, and this goes into probably your, what you were saying yesterday, that the people that were giddy about the big rift.

uh there's no rift there the rift between elon and i you know everybody wanted to say that this was a uh you know the end of the bromance not to the end of a bromance that there was a you know a divorce here right i think there might be a little bit of the end of the bromance and that obviously he's going home but but i don't think there's a divorce here and i think the truth is that elon to the extent that he probably feels either both uh compelled to

will continue to support the president in different ways. Will he spend the $100 million on Republicans in the next midterms that he promised earlier? That, I think, is still up in the air. What his involvement in politics in the future is gonna be is still a real question. - Will he wear the hats anymore? Make America great? - Mike. - I'm not sure. Or Trump was right about everything. - Well, if you saw it, by the way, interestingly, a little daylight

in that CBS Sunday morning piece, the little drips and drabs of that piece have started to come out again. Right. Since that one comment about the beautiful bill. The newest one is, he says, look, I never agreed with everything the administration did. I agree with a lot of it. Right. But I'm like a person and, you know, we disagree. And I didn't always want to feel responsible for everything that these people were doing. Right. So that was interesting. He was very honest.

Right. Talk about being honest. That's, you know, now you think that it's easy for me. No, I mean, I have the same issue. And I said that actually to members of my family. It's like sometimes it's really hard not to just trash. You know, it's it's it's hard to always you can't always back everything that this administration is going to do. You just can't. You can't. And don't come to me for that. I meant, you know, if I back 55 percent of it.

it's probably good. But in your case, I think you might be quite a bit lower. - No, look, there's things I like. - You back 55%. - I'm not here, but my job's not to back one side or the other. - I know it's not, well, as I said, I've always been a Reagan sort of-- - I know. - Okay, so I'm hoping for the best.

But there are times where this is not even close. I'm hoping for the best, too. Okay. Yeah, that's where we differ. I was more McConnell. I think we're talking about what is the best. No, that's what it is. Look, we're always having debates about ideas. You're hoping for the best. I'm hoping for the best. I think a lot of the folks who are watching this show are hoping for the best. It's a question of how people define what the best is. Oh, I can define that. But then we'd start arguing again.

Oh, the two other people left Doge, too. And what I was going to say was I saw someone said that Elon Musk left the job of trying to make the government more efficient for the much easier job of putting people on Mars. He's got it. This guy just runs to fires.

Meantime, shares of Ulta Beauty higher. Earnings and comp sales beating estimates. The company raising its full year guidance. The company's CEO saying many consumers indicate that they are leaning into beauty as a comfort and escape. An escape, Joe, from the stress of macro uncertainty. So folks are going to Ulta Beauty and escaping from beauty.

I think all the travail. I think you should spend more time in makeup. I relax in there. Yeah, you just kind of it's not quite it's like almost like a facial massage. Right. So I do it like I'm like an F1 car going into the thing. Yeah. As time passes. Yeah. You'll be more concerned with makeup. Take my word for it. You don't need it now. It's like gilding a lily. Thanks. You're welcome. Tease will be next.

Coming up, a new report says federal officials are investigating an effort to impersonate White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. Where was Carlos Watson, Sorkin? Oh, where's Carlos Watson? It may have involved artificial... Probably working in the White House now. I think he's out, right? Yeah.

And a surprise Truth Social post on trade from President Trump, right in the middle of our interview with U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer. Today, it is China in the spotlight. When they agreed in Geneva to remove their tariff and their countermeasures, they removed the tariff like we did, but some of the countermeasures they've slowed on. If you read the news, you can see that Europe, Japan, United States, elsewhere, we haven't seen the flow of some of those critical minerals as they were supposed to be doing. More SquawkPod after this.

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This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information-packed daily market preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com slash market update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you.

Welcome back to SquawkPod, today with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

That's according to a Wall Street Journal report. It said someone reached out to prominent Republicans and business executives pretending to be her.

The FBI and White House are trying to find out who is behind that effort and what their intentions were. The journal says some people familiar with the matter said officials believe AI, artificial intelligence, was used to imitate Wiles' voice. Lawmakers were reportedly suspicious of the calls when the impersonator asked questions

about President Trump that Wiles should have already known the answers to. And in one case, the impersonator actually asked for a cash transfer. By the way, though, this is something we're talking about in the context of government, which is nerve wracking. It's happening in the context of business. CEOs, COOs, like this is what this is the new thing that everyone's got to be nervous about. You are going to start getting calls from people that you think you know. Yeah.

Asking you to do stuff and think about if you were running a company and you got a call from someone who supposedly your CFO saying oh we got a transfer, you know, by the way, we got to do this transfer this afternoon about whatever. Right. And you actually think you're talking to your the person who works with you. Right. Like that's happening. It could be a lot. Everybody needs a password. Seriously, we need our own password. You and me.

If you get a call that, you know, I'm in jail, I need to be bailed. If I get a call from you, I know it's not real to begin with. Exactly, that's right. Would you bail me out if I absolutely needed help to get into the show? I don't know what I'm arrested for. You need to get into the show. That's why I'm bailing you out to get you into the show. I'm bailing you out to get you into the show. I'm bailing you out.

All right, for the latest on the Trump administration's court ruling on tariffs and what's next, let's bring in U.S. Trade Representative Ambassador Jameson Greer. It's great to have you on today. It was great last time. Welcome back. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Great to be back. Thanks for having me.

I guess we'll start with some of your comments about the rulings yesterday and the prospects for what is likely to happen. I know there's a lot of things that are being discussed right now. Do you think if you were to get emergency relief from the Supreme Court, you think they'd come down on the president's side? Do you think you have a strong case or will it stand the way it is right now?

well i think we have a very strong case congress clearly delegated to the president the ability to take action when there's a national emergency we've declared a national emergency we've taken action we have a stay from the circuit court right now all the other countries i'm dealing with the negotiations are treating this as just kind of a bump in the road rather than any fundamental change so i feel pretty confident about the case and if the case you know goes the other way we have other tools as well yeah i was

expressed that sentiment earlier that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. As a pure conservative and a markets type guy, tariffs, I think they can be effective, but there's times when you kind of wish that we would just maybe not be doing as many, but then we've come along so far, Mr. Ambassador, that to pull the rug out from the negotiating ability by making all these countries we're negotiating with think that the tariffs might not stick,

That's frustrating. But you're telling me again that none of those countries expressed any, they weren't saying, all right, we're gonna pull out of these negotiations 'cause we don't need to anymore.

It's actually the opposite. When I woke up the morning after the initial ruling, before we had the stay, I had emails and texts from foreign officials saying, "We're just going to keep negotiating with you as before. We understand that this is litigation. Things go up and down. We understand the U.S. policy going forward, and we're negotiating with you as before." So that's what's happening.

I guess you've read enough about some people view the emergency, that provision is maybe not being the best way to do it. Is it possible you would use the Trade Act of 1974? You get 150 days and then you have to actually go on an individual basis and prove that tariffs are something to be done. Is that being looked at at this point?

Well, first of all, it's important to understand that the president's trade team has been thinking about these legal tools for years. We have a lot of folks on TV and the Internet who've been thinking about it for about six minutes. So, of course, these are things that we've been considering and talking about for a very long time. All these things are on the table. The reality is we have this enormous trade deficit. It got worse over the Biden years.

And if we don't fix the global trading system, it's just going to get even worse going forward. And we have to fix it. - Right, but you think you could convince the Supreme Court that that suddenly, the Rubicon was passed in terms of the trade deficit that now it's an emergency, but it hasn't been an emergency. We've had a trade deficit for decades. And I just think, isn't it hard to make the case suddenly it's reached that level, that it's now an emergency?

No, I don't think that's a problem. And in fact, the lower court that took issue with the President's action, it wasn't really on the nature of the emergency so much as their views on the implementation. The reality is the trade deficit has exploded by 40% over the past four years.

It was $850 billion around the beginning of the Biden administration, ended at $1.2 trillion. So that's extreme by any measure. You know, it's one thing to have a deficit or surplus that fluctuates over time, but to have it increase so substantially in such a short time and be accompanied, you know, by also a, you know,

a worsening in our net international investment position where we're at negative 26 trillion at the end of last year. I mean, this is crazy stuff where foreign firms and individuals have claims on U.S. assets in a way they've never had it before. That's a dangerous situation. James, this is...

what's happening in the markets is not you, as far as I can tell. There has been, President Trump just did post on Truth Social saying that, in his words, two weeks ago, China was in grave economic danger. The very high tariffs I said made it virtually impossible for China to trade in the United States marketplace, which is by far number one in the world. We went, in effect, cold turkey with China, and it was devastating for them.

Many factories closed, to put it mildly. There was civil unrest. I saw what was happening and didn't like it for them, not for us. I made a fast deal with China in order to save them from what I thought was going to be a very bad situation. And I didn't want to see that happen. Because of this deal, everything stabilized, got back to business as usual. Everybody was happy. That's the good news. Bad news.

is that China, perhaps not surprisingly, has totally violated its agreement with us. So much for being Mr. Nice Guy. Did you know about the, do you have a heads up about this?

I mean, this has been something we've been discussing ever since Geneva. You know, the president, you know, I speak to him nearly daily basis as to his other advisors. And we've been very focused on monitoring Chinese compliance or in this case noncompliance with the agreement. And we're very concerned with it. We moved, as the president just said, very quickly. No one can deny that. The United States did exactly what it was supposed to do. And the Chinese are slow rolling their compliance, which is completely unacceptable and has to be addressed.

Is it beneficial for this negotiation now to be effectively taking place in public? I mean, there's been some level of which this has already happened with us. We've actually been quieter, frankly, than they have to some degree. But the president's comments today, obviously, as we're watching the market, you know, this is this is complicating things.

Well, I mean, listen, I would say there are a lot of different ways to deal with folks. You make every effort to be diplomatic and professional and to do things behind closed doors. But at some point, the impact on the U.S. economy or the trade relationship becomes such that it's hard to withhold that anymore. We might have gotten a little bit of a heads up on this from last night when the Treasury Secretary in an interview said that talks had completely stalled.

with China and that it was gonna take a phone call with President Trump to President Xi to get things back on track and he expected that in the next couple of weeks. Can you say that, is that in the works? - Yes, that's accurate.

And, you know, the Treasury Secretary, you know, his characterization is accurate, of course. I would say that, you know, conversations and calls continue at lower levels. But ultimately, the nature of the things we're talking about, it does require some leader-to-leader understandings, right? We made a huge effort in Geneva to accommodate the Chinese. And listen, it always ends up being this way, whether it's the United States or other Western countries have always sought to accommodate the Chinese. We've had open markets, et cetera. Right.

And time and time again, we see the Chinese come down and not comply with their agreements, slow roll compliance, not open their economy like they should. So unfortunately, we're seeing that trend continue. Ambassador, can you just, and I ask this effectively on behalf of just the folks who are watching us, can you tell us specifically what they did or frankly didn't do in this case?

Well, remember, when the United States imposed reciprocal tariffs on the world, right? This wasn't China-specific. There were other countries that had higher tariff rates than China assigned to them. China was the only country to retaliate. Remember that. And so the president was forced to retaliate to maintain the effectiveness of the tariff. Now, when the Chinese...

Yeah, let me get to that. When the Chinese retaliated, it wasn't just with a tariff. They put in place countermeasures where they put certain U.S. companies on blacklists. They restricted the flow of rare earth magnets to us and other countries in the world. And so when they agreed in Geneva to remove their tariff and their countermeasures, they removed the tariff like we did. But some of the countermeasures they've slowed on. If you read the news, you can see.

you can see that Europe, Japan, United States, elsewhere, we haven't seen the flow of some of those critical minerals as they were supposed to be doing. We have also heard, I guess this was Kevin Hassett in this case, that there may be something forthcoming in the next week or so in terms of some of these trade deals, maybe with some of our important partners. Can you shed any light on that?

Sure. I mean, I'll say that I have almost standing calls with the Indian trade minister every day. I have meetings next week at the OECD with the Malaysians, the Vietnamese, the EU. We're in intensive talks with all of them.

We also want to make sure we kind of get through the stay in appeals with with the current tariff situation. So our partners have a better understanding of the landing zone. But like I said before, the negotiations are on track and we do hope to have some deals in the next couple of weeks. Is there a running total on how much has been garnered so far on the tariffs? James, we're now in the.

We haven't moved on, but we're talking a lot about the big beautiful bill and there are some concerns about deficits, etc. And even though it can't be included maybe in the CBO estimates, anything would be good to add to try to pay our debts.

No, I think that's right. And listen, obviously, the president's action is based on a national emergency, getting down the deficit. But you say you have tariffs, there is a revenue effect. And if you look at the revenue effect, you know, I'm not the OMB guy, but it's, you know, it's hundreds of billions of dollars if the tariffs go forward as proceed as currently drafted. When do you

we expect to hear about whether you need to take a different route in terms of whether you'd need to go to that 1974. I mean, the president, I think the first time in his first administration, did he not use that 1974 act for some of the tariffs with China? That's right. That's section 301 of the 1974 act. And that's a very effective tool. It takes

It takes more time. Remember, we're in an emergency, so we had to address this quickly, so that's why we used the Emergency Act. Section 301, that's something we've already done with respect to shipbuilding this term. We have some other things in the works with respect to semiconductors, and we can certainly expand the use of that as necessary. The panel that we did have in the International Court, I think, was a Reagan appointee, an Obama appointee, and

If I got that right, and a Trump appointee. Is there a reason to think with the composition of the Supreme Court that you would get a reversal of that, Jameson?

Oh, I think so. I mean, I do think that we're in a situation, as the president and others have expressed, that we have the judicial branch right now feeling like they have some kind of authority over matters that are clearly within the president's remit, not only constitutionally, but as delegated by Congress. For a court to get involved and say whether or not a president is appropriately responding to a national emergency is really just beyond the pale, and I think the Supreme Court will recognize that.

Do you think at this point that the most important thing that we're talking about, I mean, Europe's one thing, the EU, even India and Japan, is it all about China, Mr. Ambassador? Well, you know, I would say that when it comes to the trade deficit, China's the biggest problem, but the EU is right behind them. And when it comes to, you know,

Non-tariff barriers, certainly we have that in China, but we also have that in the EU with respect to their standards on industrial goods and ag where they effectively block a lot of our products. Obviously with China, you have a geopolitical layer on top of that where their geopolitical goals are different and at odds with ours, and so that's its own challenge. But when it comes to the pure economics, I mean, we have problems with all kinds of countries, friend or foe, and we're trying to resolve those.

The EU, that was an interesting case. I mean, every day it seems like we have so much to discuss. Can you just give us some color on what you were hearing from the EU prior to that phone call over the weekend? And what are the issues that are most intractable? And now we've had a couple of days since the phone call. Where does that stand now?

Certainly. Well, just remember, there is a very long history of problems in U.S.-EU trade where the EU has enjoyed very broad market access to the United States and the EU on its end has somewhat higher tariffs than the U.S. They're not sky high like India or other places, but they're higher than us.

and they have these non-tariff barriers that require companies to do double testing of their products. They might certify in the US, then they have to certify again in the EU under a different standard, or they block our agricultural goods because they don't like certain of the type of food or hormones that our food has in it.

and these are things that have gone on for a really long time and that's why the EU, you know, it's one reason why the EU has a $240 billion surplus with us. It's not because they're competitive. We had this big Draghi report come out, you know, several months ago saying how the EU's not competitive. So the fact that they, despite that, managed to have a huge surplus with the US certainly shows there's a structural problem there that needs to be resolved. Well, they got, they're wrangling, we're wrangling cats and they're, this is like an intra-wrangle over there. They've got how many countries that they've got a...

27, that's right. Yeah, they've got 27. So what's the chance of the, what is the chance that by July 9th you have a deal with the EU? And by the way, what's the chance that you have deals with, whether it's Japan or India or South Korea or some of these other countries prior to that?

Right. So with the EU, to your point, they've got 27 members that they're wrangling, but they have had a fire lit under them. They know exactly what we want. They've known for weeks and months even. They are moving. The call between President von der Leyen and President Trump went very well. They were responsive. I won't go into detail because, again, we do these negotiations in a confidential way. But we are...

reviewing possible ways forward right now. I'll be meeting in person with my counterpart early next week when I'm over there in Europe. And so we expect to have, you know, we're trying to achieve agreements in principle with these folks to give the general contours of these agreements so we can know how we can adjust our trade policies towards each other to be more reciprocal and more balanced. Yeah. The president in that true social post that we talked about right at the top, Mr. Ambassador, seemed

Do you know specifically what he's mad about and what is he accusing China, which violations recent, just since the Treasury Secretary got back from Geneva, what's he talking about that they've been violating blatantly since then?

Sure. Well, I mean, you saw the president's tweet. I mean, and you can just read in the news that China continues to, you know, slow down and choke off things like critical minerals and rare earth magnets, et cetera. You know, obviously our deficit continues to be enormous with China. You know, there was some discussion of them opening their market, something that they expressed they wanted to do. You know, we're seeing them do export curbs. We're not seeing major changes. So, you know, this is unfortunately par for the course. I'm...

I don't want to take a side either way, but it doesn't sound like there's been a... What I'm trying to understand is, given the post that we just read that the president wrote, it doesn't sound like there's some kind of new twist to this necessarily, though the post seems to suggest maybe that there was.

Well, we have one agreement with the Chinese from Geneva. That's what we're focused on. It's fairly narrow. It's about the U.S. and China taking down tariffs and for the Chinese also their countermeasures. And some of those countermeasures, we're just not seeing them go quickly enough. Some they have, right? Some they have and that's verifiable and others, they're being slow. And, you know, we're trying to work through that with them.

Ambassador, I had two other quick questions. One is this U.S. Nippon Steel deal and the golden shares that the United States government has assured itself of as part of that transaction has raised questions about whether a similar kind of model could be used for TikTok and could be used for other companies in the United States that foreign countries either want to own or otherwise buy. Should we think about it that way?

So some of that's a little outside my wheelhouse. I'm not involved in the TikTok matter. And the review for the Nippon Steel deal, the details of that remain confidential relatively. I mean, I would say that the United States, the underlying principle is that the United States should have control over key critical sectors, whether it's basic manufacturing or high tech industries.

in the event that foreign countries or foreign individuals or firms want to acquire these companies or have large investments. The U.S. has to maintain control on things that matter.

And the other question I had is, you know, the president's been very outspoken about his views about Apple and Tim Cook specifically. And I'm curious just how you think about that in the context that at the same time the United States has taken, for example, the EU to task for trying to fine or otherwise extract fees and other things from American businesses and whether criticizing and publicly criticizing

American businesses gives other countries sort of an opening to do things similarly. Well, I would say that, you know, the president, he has the prerogative of being the president. And if he has specific views and concerns, he's going to express them. And we all know that for the past seven or eight years, we have been trying to get companies to reshore to the United States.

and have supply chains that aren't dependent on China. And the president in his first term, he tried really hard to get folks to do that. He sent very clear messages. He imposed tariffs that were incentives to reshore. The Biden team, whatever you might say about them, they kept the president's tariffs in place 'cause they knew that was the right thing to do. And the president has doubled down on that strategy here. And so when you see companies that after seven, eight years of this almost bipartisan approach,

continue to be dependent on China, that seems like a high-risk business strategy to me. Very good. Thanks for all the time this morning, Mr. Ambassador. And we're obviously going to want to check back in with you in this fast-moving situation that we're watching play out in real time. Thank you.

Next on Squawk Pod, inside your supplement cabinet and inside Andrew's. I buy this stuff, which dare I say is kind of criminally expensive. $2.80 a pack. That's not cheap. Nope. AG1 CEO Kat Cole on the price people are willing to pay to get their greens in. We'll be right back. Lights, camera, innovation.

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Welcome back to Squawk Box. We're going to talk about our health, everybody. The global market for digestive health products is booming. Our next guest is the chief executive of AG1, formerly known as Athletic Greens, which is a supplement used by business executives, personal or professional athletes, how they start their day. And yes, you personally me.

I was going to say, so here I am. Joining us in an exclusive interview is AG1's CEO, Kat Cole. So people don't see this next to me. So in the morning, I do this. So I have the Fiji water.

First thing I do is I mix. This is not your product. This element is a little salt, and I do half of it in the water. And then, God bless you, you now have these. So AG1, for those people who don't drink this stuff, used to come in these packets, and they'd spill everywhere. And then she finally gets the job, and she comes in, and she makes it so you can take it.

and you do it like this into the water. Look at that. You can see this into the thing. Powder? And then, yes, you've seen me do this sometimes. And then I, I mean, it doesn't look great, guys, but, you know, like this. Look at that. I do like that during the commercials. And then I go like this. Shake it up.

And then I go like this, and you guys all think this looks gross. And then I drink it. It tastes pretty bad, right? It's supporting nutrients and gut health. This is what's going on. Gut health. That's right. Gut health market is exploding. People have nutrient gaps. They need support. AG1 covers those gaps. So, okay, so I'm going to channel Becky for a second. Oh, yes, please. You're sitting in her chair. Aw, we miss you, Becky. She...

She was very excited because when you came to the company, you said you were going to start testing this stuff. And there have been these questions online and everywhere else about what's actually in this. Totally.

You tested it and then you created a new product. So something has happened to the product. It's actually different. Yeah. So then she said to me, does that mean you've thrown out all your old AG1? And I said, I hadn't. And then she said, well, you should ask. You need to find out what did you put in the new one and what did you take out of the one that I still have? Oh, it's still great. So when I was here last, what was that, nine months ago, stepped into the CEO role, said,

We were gonna project to do 600 million, be profitable and begin this innovation and increasing research rigor that you just described. We did it all. We closed our fiscal year recently, did 600 million profitable and began this journey of investing in far more clinical research. So we did a few things. One, we upgraded

AG1 to AG1 NextGen because the research said many of us benefit from more robust probiotics. So we put in the most clinically studied five-strain blend of probiotics. Did you take anything out? Was there anything in there that you said, you know what, people shouldn't have this or they shouldn't have this amount of something? No, there were a few grasses and vegetables that we just changed and upgraded.

because the science said it would improve beneficial bacteria to the gut. So AG1 Classic, which is what is in Costco now, we just launched national in Costco. - So can we discuss this? So I buy this stuff, which dare I say is kind of criminally expensive, 'cause I buy-- - $2.80 a pack. - That's not cheap. - Nope. - And now you're selling it at Costco.

Is it any cheaper at Costco? It's an incredible value at Costco, but it's still a premium product. Costco's no stranger. Is it the same price as what I'm getting online? Very similar. So it's a 40 count for $72.99 for the classic formula. AG1 Next Gen is...

79 for a 30 count, but more clinically backed, more in every scoop. So AG1 NextGen Online has more and is more clinically studied. Joe's the scientist here. Costco's classic. Joe, you're the scientist. Joe thinks all of this is phony. He thinks that I'm a... Do you, Joe? No, Joe thinks I'm a quack. I think it's Dr. Feelgood's medicine truck is parked out. No, I don't think that. There is a cable network where you can't watch it for one second without seeing this balance of major crap, which...

All they say is we just grind up vegetables and fruits. So you never have to eat another vegetable or fruit. All you got to do is just take this powder. Yeah. This is different? This is different. Well, it's different in a few ways. Yes, there's whole foods in here that help support nutrient gaps. But there's an incredible multivitamin, multimineral pro and prebiotics. Me and you don't get enough fermented foods in our diet. Are you eating kimchi every meal?

No. Probably not. That's not a person? Yes, not a food. So the research we did for gold standard human trials, we tested healthy individuals, standard American diet, athletes, non-athletes, people with GI issues. And all across the board, it showed we have nutrient gaps. Our food is not as nutrient dense as it once was. We're pushing our bodies hard. So support

helps whole food should be first you're right but we still need but you do get a lot of vitamins i will say so i don't take any other vitamins but if i'm feeling like because this show is on a crazy hour let's be honest yeah there are times when i'm tired and i i find both not that i get it's

It's not like an energy, like a coffee energy. It's like something else. And sometimes I'm feeling sick or I'm about to get sick. And I'll do two packs, by the way, not at one time. And that sort of seems to help. And you have a lot of indefensible positions you take, which is exhausting. Exhausting. Well, that's why you should be taking it, Joe. You need it for that reason. And you probably think, this is 4,000 years of history. I take ghee, which is clarified butter. It's good for you. A teaspoon. Great source of fat.

- Maybe you just need more fat. - It's warm, it's coats, and that's all I do. And it's not expensive. - This industry, one, it's booming, right? Health is the center of so much conversation at the government level, socially, in many communities. - Why is it so expensive? That's Andrea's question. - You know how expensive it is to source the highest quality ingredients and actually have, it is incredibly expensive. To have third party testing that certifies what's on the label is in the box,

But the margins are not crazy? I'm assuming the margins are insane. The margins are fantastic on the business. Okay, so... We're doing $600 million in profitable, but it is expensive to do it well. This industry has good actors who invest in research and high standards like us and third-party certifications, and it has...

Not so great actors. Like that other one I was talking about? Maybe. And the customer is a bit confused as they navigate the supplement aisle. So what they need to look for is third-party certifications like NSF or Sport, published research and documented clinical, human clinical trials, not just agreed-on research. I got a question for you. So there's a guy, Brian Johnson, this is the guy who claims he's going to live forever. You know what I'm talking about? Don't die. You know what I'm talking about. You know exactly, right? He thinks this is like a joke and he's, right? He's got his own supplement.

He's got his own line and he's out there saying that this is overpriced, doesn't have all the stuff in it, all the things. As the leader in the industry, there's always going to be critics. And I welcome people who push and challenge us. It makes us better. But the reality is AG1 is the best in the industry. What about David Beckham out? He's got a new one too. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, there are many celebrities that have supplement brands now. Are there any others that you like? Are there any that actually, here's a question. Is there any that you actually go,

That's clever. We looked at that and we're like, "Mm, we like that." - There are a few brands, not just one, that are really pushing the frontiers of science and research on probiotics. They have very high count, high quality probiotics. There are some people who are doing very interesting things with proteins, immunoglobulin, IgG, you've heard colostrum, things like that. Fantastic. - Oh, the colostrum. - To add to the stack.

I see that on my, no, colostrum. I see it constantly on my Instagram feed and I'm like, should I be getting this stuff? Where there's opportunity. But AG1 is the most comprehensive. This is why you get into sex. You got so much crap going on. You're the biggest sucker for all this stuff. No, but you got the Xclear. I love Xclear. I love Xclear. I love Xclear. But not like you, Joe, because you're not doing a lot of these things. But I started out, as many customers do, on this health journey with this.

a million pills and powders. Like, going to Whole Foods, getting it, and then they just expire and you can't take them consistently. - You have a sleep thing, too? - Yeah, now she's going to sleep, into sleep. - You know, one-- - 'Cause you don't take that in the morning. - One out of three, no, you don't take it in the morning. One out of three Americans have issues with sleep. And we've done one thing.

I can tell you three out of three on SquawkBox have an issue with sleep. Actually, the entire staff. We don't have enough. We don't have enough. We can sleep just fine. This beautiful business is 600 million profitable business, one product, one channel. We've only sold one thing for 15 years.

And now today we're announcing one stepping nationally into retail for the first time ever at Costco. You've been covering Costco. An incredible partner, high household income, known to carry premium products. They have a limited SKU set in each category. They lean into sampling, which is so good for us. People get freaked out when they see a green drink. I'm feeling pressure here to try it. You should try it. Well, now you can go to drinkag1.com or Costco to get a drink. The producers are going to kill us because we're running out of time. And we have a sleep product now. So I drink this stuff.

Yeah. Sometimes in the morning, but always before I go to bed at night. You told me that last time. Right. So my question is, now what am I going to do if I'm supposed to take that thing? Oh, we have to experiment with your routine. That's a really good question. So AG1, now NextGen, much more upgraded. He has eight Krispy Kremes. Does that...

That does not balance. I mean, it helps, but it's not going to race it. So AG1 now in Costco, AG1 next gen on the site. Okay, and I'm assuming this is all, we're going to see you at the NASDAQ like in a couple years trying to go public. Is that where this is all headed? Certainly being multi-channel and multi-product makes us very attractive to customers and to the market. So we'll see. Okay, it's great to see you. Thank you for coming in this morning. Thanks for having me.

That's the pod for today. And for the week, it's Friday. Thank you for listening. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC starting at 6 Eastern. Get the best of our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you back here on Monday. Have a great weekend. We are clear. Thanks, guys.

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