Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. Thanks to you, this podcast is growing each week. And as usual, you can always hit us up at thehonestdrink at gmail.com. Also, if you've been enjoying the content, please go ahead, rate, comment, or subscribe. Now, today's guest is a Chinese fashion and commercial model who now works in New York.
We talk about her experience dealing with the cultural differences in the United States, fitting in, working on inner struggles, and she explains what it's like to be a model. She's super cool, really down to earth, and we just had a great time having an honest drink with her. So without further ado, give it up and please welcome Chen Yu.
Of course challenge yourself like
You're in Shanghai, you're a model, and New York is one of the biggest fashion capitals, and you want to make it out there. And then the people here will say, oh, you're a supermodel now. You got famous. You made it. Doesn't matter you made it or not. Yeah, just sounds cool. Well, I think it sounds cool. So let's cheers to that first. Cheers. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming.
So what are we drinking today? We're drinking the Suntory World Whiskey. Yeah, I just got back from Japan. I was in Osaka. And on the way out, I stopped by the Duty Free. And this was one of two only, only one of two Japanese, like nicer, I guess, whiskeys. And this one, the other one was the one we had, we drank on, on the show, like early show, Nika. But this one is the Suntory. And it's a blend of five different whiskeys.
Yeah, I see here. It's a blend of, so okay, the world whiskeys, right? It's a blend of Irish, Scotch, American, Canadian, and Japanese whiskeys. Yeah. Wow. That's got everything covered. The taste is awesome. Yeah. All right, cheers one more time. Let's drink a little more. I think it's pretty sweet. Yeah. It's pretty nice. Yeah. It's actually sippable. It's nice and sippable. It's very sweet. It's refreshing, actually, this one. It's not like heavy and dark. It's like more bright. It's very light. And refreshing. And then smooth. And a little bit.
So basically, I think one of the things that I've always been curious about with you, Chen Yu, being back and forth between New York and Shanghai, and Justin and I coming from New York as well, what do you find the biggest differences are for you being Chinese-born and now based out there? This is a really difficult question to answer, actually. Yeah, it's big.
- 'Cause in the beginning, and then nobody will think, and the culture difference, at least for me, and I didn't think the culture different, it will be that different. In terms like, you always read and listen and everything is American produced, right? Like mostly like a cultural references.
Until I start to really live there. I think basically just like the way how you express yourself and be humble. For example, if you be humble, most Americans will step all over you. So you gotta be tougher. Yeah, you have to be tougher. Well, that might be also a New York thing though, right? Yeah, that could be specific to New York. Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah, probably. Probably. And yeah, now, now I understand like California people are much nicer. Can you share a story where you went in there a little bit too low key and then they just stepped all over you? Let's not mention that. Okay. So when you first got there, you were, you, you thought you were like, you were more humble coming from, you know, Chinese culture. That's not what I exactly mean. I just like, uh,
that's the biggest experience after few years, I start to understand. But in the beginning, of course, I still be myself and hanging out with most of friends and making new friends. And of course it's difficult. But after a while I thought, oh, actually if I be tougher, I make friends easier.
So how, in what ways are you tougher? Just, just within words, of course, not within words. Like if they say something bad about you, and of course you fight it back and you say something bad about them. You fight back, you don't, you don't just take it. Yeah. Okay. Oh, interesting. I never really thought about that. I mean, I mean, okay, well, Eric is not from New York and he's from Texas. So, I mean, I,
I don't know how you think about New Yorkers, if there is any type of stigma for you. Everything seems to move a little faster. At least that's the perception, right? A little bit faster. People are a little bit more direct.
But then, you know, you start living overseas in Shanghai and you're kind of like you get exposed to different things. Yeah. Well, I feel like Shanghai is also, I mean, it's pretty fast paced. I mean, maybe Chinese culture in general, you kind of need to be a little more humble. Right? A little bit more like low key and like...
you know, swerve around the issues and stuff like that. And, and New York in general is more in your face. More confrontational, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think in Chinese culture, one thing I've learned here, um, living here is, um,
People are much less confrontational here than in the States. But even in the States, because we talked about this in our previous episodes as well, there's a big difference between, like you say, the East Coast and the West Coast. So specifically from the East Coast, whether you're in New York or Jersey or Boston, you're
All these areas, people are a lot more direct. Yes. They're a lot more frank. They're a lot more confrontational. In the West Coast, in my experience, I feel like people are more similar to maybe kind of how it is here in China, a little bit less confrontational, less direct to me.
- Yes and no, I think. Here, I think in general, like American culture is more, you have to express yourself more in front of people and talk more and just be presentable towards people. But here, it's not that, like what you mentioned, how we just sat in front of your face is,
I think you don't have to show that much raising a word. And maybe that is after, like when you get know each other and that they will be more open up. It just takes a little bit longer to warm up here. Kind of.
I don't know how to explain it. It's really, yeah. Well, what about, okay, let's say, because I think you can tell a lot about a person by the friends they keep around, right? So what is your circle of friends here versus in New York? Is there a big difference in the type of people and your friends that you have in your circle?
- Not really. Here, of course I have more of like local friends that like who I grew up with and I met along the way while working here. But in New York, of course,
There's a Chinese, like Chinese people like, like me and go to abroad. And the mean, they, we share the same thing and we have like same struggles and you, you become closer. Oh, so you hang out with a lot of Chinese people in New York as well. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
- Because like I think, yeah, you share that you go through the same journey, you run into the same type of problems. - Yeah, and then those people I know them, some of them like I know from Shanghai because our profession we moved the same city together, not together,
but together in one city. So we will start to talking about the problems and the struggles and the things, and then we become closer friends. And if those people are,
What I mean is if we're all not really in New York, we probably will never become friends in China. So what kind of struggles are you talking about, though, in terms of being there and struggles you can relate to with them? Like how to rent a house, like how to rent an apartment. How to rent an apartment. Yeah.
Like how to get by just day-to-day stuff. Yeah, kind of like day-to-day stuff. I think we can relate to that too because there are a lot of international people in Shanghai and we tend to kind of form communities. But maybe we wouldn't have been friends with these people back home. But then coming here, you have more in common. So I can kind of relate to that. Yeah, that is true.
That is true. Because you find different type of common bonds, right? So it's like maybe I'll use myself as an example. Back in the day, back in New York, I mean, music was the common bond. Like I would meet people, oh, we have the same music taste. Oh, let's hang out. And then that was that. And then here, it was not about the music taste. It was more like, oh, well, we both grew up in,
In the States or whatever as a minority and now we're here in China and you know, you're pretty cool So let's be friends. Yeah. So yeah, it's very different right? It doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's different. Yeah, it is different and also like for for for what you mentioned like you have a bond and the Maybe your interest or whatever like other things you have um that
That for me is easier to find in China. Because I don't know, maybe we're talking the same language. Language, culture. And how we express ourselves better.
it's similar. So you find, oh, I love this, you love this. So we can become like friends, friends. - Yeah, there's less cultural barriers in a way. But like what you're saying is like in terms of finding common ground as like a bonding experience, I think that's very true. But that can like kind of cut both ways, right? Because you have the positive kind of shared experiences that bring people together.
But I think there's no stronger adhesive in terms of like bonding than like negative experiences, like adversity, right? Like shared adversity, I think is the strongest bond people go through. That's why you have like war veterans and their closest friends are like the people that were in their same platoon or they go through these incredibly like hard and traumatic experiences and they had to rely on each other in these situations, right?
So it's like this idea of shared adversity and struggles to several different degrees. I mean, you can have something as crazy as war, but then you have all these other lesser degrees of adversity, but there's still adversity, right? And this is, I think, a common thing in terms of what brings people together the most. And it's like a more lasting bond, I think, when people go through hard times together. So that's interesting. That's the first time I've ever heard like...
I guess modeling in a different country related to war. I'd like to get your perspective because, you know, you were there for five years and I imagine there's a lot of differences and stuff like that. Like, were there difficult moments for you? And like, you know, how does that analogy sort of hold up? Were there any kind of like war moments for you? I don't feel that way. I don't know. I never felt that way. Well, let me, let me add on to that. I mean, what Eric was saying. So,
- In terms of war moments, did you ever feel like very Chinese, like an outsider while you were there? - Always. - You always feel like an outsider there? - Yeah, always. For now, I feel like I'm kind of stepping inside of the society, 'cause I lived there longer enough and I have more friends now and work people knows me better than before.
But I always felt I'm like me. I'm born and raised in China. I will never be the same as American born Chinese. So from before, before I always try to fit in, like for the first two or three years, I always try to fit in and to sounds more American or,
do things more American and learn what they like and be more friendly and to kind of like, "Hey, please like me, like me." Now I think I don't care anymore. And I feel like I'm just an outsider. So if you like me, you like me and we hang out.
But is your feeling of being an outsider more from your maybe your own insecurities as like, you know, maybe like, you know, culturally and there's a language barrier a little bit. And then, you know, it's just a new country. So maybe you feel like it's harder for
I don't know, maybe you're looking more shy or whatever, or do you feel it's more from them and they look at you and they're like, well, we, you know, they're kind of holding you as an outsider. I mean, do you feel it's more from you or from them? - Yeah, both. Yeah, definitely there's, there's parts from myself and then you're always going, doesn't matter in which stage of your life, you're always going slow.
sort of internal struggles and try to be a better person. But now I think, and also from other people's perspective, it doesn't matter you try hard and you always be outside to them. And maybe because in the beginning I never really accepted that way. Like, oh, I want to fit in, I want to fit in, I want to have my own
of people and my community there. But now, after a few years of growing inside myself, I accept that, oh, you look at me as an outsider, then I'm an outsider. But I still can be a friend. I think that's
What I take from that is something really positive because, like, first of all, this notion of outsider and insider, we tend to assign a value to it. So if you're an insider, good, outsider, bad, and it sounds like over time you realize that by placing that judgment on it, it wasn't really a positive thing for you. Oh, yeah, that's so deep. Yeah.
I mean, like, I think the thing about insider and outsider is that you could always define yourself as an outsider, right? Like, we all go through that. Even as a... Like, you mentioned, like, Chinese American, and you may feel like, wow, if I could just kind of speak like that, I'd be part of the insider group. And, you know, we've had...
Some conversations earlier where it wasn't like that we grew up and we were like, God, if we could just, you know, do that, we'd be the insider group. And I think over time you realize that there's no good and bad. And in fact, any group of people, there's going to be insiders and outsiders. And I think like a really healthy group of people brings in.
a wide variety of people, right? And so being outsider doesn't mean like you can't connect or be part of that group. It just means you're a little bit different, right? And so I think nothing wrong with it. It seems like that's what you're trying to say. And I can really relate to that. It's powerful.
Or even in a country like America, like what is even an insider, right? Like what is an insider in America? In a country as diverse as the United States, like what does being an insider even mean? You know what I mean? There is no, it's almost like fictional. Totally. And like imagine like you're a, like imagine you're a girl in the US, the typical average American girl, right? And there's so much...
you know, so much stuff coming culturally from China and China's sort of like, you know, kind of flexing its muscles a little bit in all kinds of different ways. And tender, you're like, you know, beautiful model walking down the street. Right. And so who the fuck cares if you're outside or inside are probably like 99% of the girls on the street and they see you.
they're like very xie mu in a way you know what I'm saying it's the psychology comes from your perceptions and the way you think but maybe they're intimidated like damn like China's taking over the world this bitch is like coming over and taking all her jobs and shit I feel Erica is like a therapist
I look in the mirror every day. Because he asks himself these questions all the time. Well, I want to piggyback on something that you said and what Eric kind of expanded on, which is you said that you can never be like an ABC, American born Chinese, right? And what Eric was saying was like, even us as American born Chinese or close to it,
I mean, we were outsiders. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we have an American accent. Yeah, we grew up in the culture. But we're still outsiders in a way. You know? So there's like what Eric was saying. There is no inside, really. I think probably I have the... Why I have the idea from... It's, you know, in China. And doesn't matter. Like there's a local racist.
Kind of like a Shanghai. Yeah, city racism. Yeah, city racism. But now it's less and less from the new generation. Younger people, our generations. But before...
I remember my parents always tell me, "Oh, so the people from the countryside are not from here, it's bad." And they're like a Shanghainese people are like really . -
So on that topic, can you kind of just for the listeners who may not be living in China, can you explain a little bit about your perceptions and like where you're from? And then when you moved to Shanghai initially and sort of this insider outsider perspective from just a local Chinese perspective? Yeah.
- Yeah, I feel like, okay, back at that time when I moved, all my classmates-- - Where are you from? - I'm from Shandong, Yanhai, which is the northeast coast. - Northeast China, in a way. - Yeah, northeast, in a way, and on the coast. - And what's the character of--
I guess people from Shandong because there's like 30 something provinces right and each province is probably unique almost more different than the difference between like Texas and New York almost well they always say like Shandong beauty right like coming here that's what I heard like a lot of pretty girls are in Shandong oh really I heard it's from Chengdu Chengdu and also Shandong and everything they say something because of the water also Jiangsu, Shanghai and Guangdong have quite
you know beautiful and attractive women as well yeah everywhere has attractive women I'm just saying yeah you're probably trying to be all like PC right now I think but what I heard is like Shandong have a more tall and handsome guys yeah but I don't know it's true or not
But in general, like you guys said, from different provinces you have all the identity wars of defining where they're from. - Yeah, identity wars. It's more like a rivalry. Like, oh, I'm from Beijing, so it's like I'm all about Beijing, I don't like Chinese people. So it's like very tribal. - Yeah, very tribal. - In terms of where their cities are, like where they grew up.
Like first hand known people were being called really tall and can drink a lot. Also honest, kind of like a humble, really humble people. Sure sounds like it. Yeah. But in the other way to explain the humble is, oh, you can lie to them. They won't think a second. Oh, so the gullible you're saying. Yeah.
So who are some famous, other than yourself, are there some well-known people that come from Shandong? Gong Di.
- Oh Gong Li, I love Gong Li. - Yeah, growing up I thought she was so beautiful. - No, she is beautiful. What do you mean you thought she was so beautiful? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, Gong Li. - And she's one of the best actresses, I think China, out of China, ever. - And also I think the first lady is from Shandong as well. - Oh, that's true. - Mrs. Xi Jinping? - Yeah. - Okay. - Shout out. - Shout out to Mrs. Xi Jinping. - Shout out to the first lady. - Yes. And also Huang Xiaoming.
For the actors and the actress and Fan Bingbing. Oh, really? Wow. Those are really famous. Yeah. I saw Fan Bingbing just like last week or a week and a half ago at the airport in Hong Kong. Oh, wow. Yeah, we were going through immigration together. I was right next to her. I really like her actually. Yeah. Even though she's... Yeah, hearing the recent scandals. Anyway. So let me ask you, Chen Yu. In...
Like, let's say walking down the streets in New York, do you find it easier to make friends with guys or girls? You know, do you like, because you're a model, so I don't know, like, are guys more intimidated by you or do they approach you more because, you know, you're a model and, you know, obviously you're very beautiful? Oh, yeah.
So humble. No, let me think about that. I probably always on a rush when working on the street. And like Eric just mentioned, I go to New York in terms of time and you're always in a rush and you're always like walking so much faster. And now you feel the time pass really fast. So yeah,
There's really little times that I stand on the street. Well, like I say, maybe not even on the street, but like in a social gathering, a party or, you know, just wherever a lot of guys hit on you over there.
Not really, not really. I don't think, I think I always put on my guy, you know, guy faces. Yeah? Sometimes, when they try, I don't know, like, I never felt that way. Probably, yes. Do you have any, like, actual, like, just full American friends there? Yeah. Just local, local friends? Yeah. Don't speak any Chinese? You know, you have a lot, you keep, you have a lot, any of them close? The close, you know, the terms are close friends. Mm-hmm.
um you should ask me like is our american way close or chinese way close what does that mean though yeah can you yeah what does that mean what's the difference can you explain that um
So if I make new friends with Chinese people and they will know from, they want to know from you, like a generation, generation back, and then your whole family history, your backgrounds, and then they will make sure, oh, maybe we can become really good friends. Oh, really? So they consider your whole, like, ancestry, basically? They're not really judging it. They are not considering as a...
considering, oh, like is your family good or not? It's not like that. It's more of they thought if they know your family, you explain a little bit about your family, they become more closer to you. It's a mutual feeling to each other, towards each other. - How do they ask the question? So what approach do they use to be able to get that information from you? Is it over drinking?
No, really. Sometimes just randomly. And then walking on straight and then you're talking. 你爷爷是从哪里来的? Yeah, something like that. 你爷爷的爷爷呢? 对,那你父母好吗? So they're asking about where your grandparents are from. Oh, your parents. Because this is new to me. I mean, that's new to me. How long have you lived here? 10 years.
But people never really ask me. Justin doesn't hang out with a lot of locals. But the funny thing is that his wife is... Justin's wife is Chinese and he's already gone through this process. He just doesn't realize it. Like, even with the locals...
like no one really asked me like my whole ancestry you know they they go as far back as like my fumu my parents right where your parents from i think i was yeah i was a little bit exaggerated of course people just exaggerate all the time just learn from so it's their way of just being more personal with you right oh snap
And so what's the American way then? American way is, oh, cool, you're cool, you look good. Yeah, let's... Yeah, we're good friends now. So if I can just sort of maybe...
Break that down a little bit. It's almost like the American way is a bit more simple, right? Yeah, it's more simple. And I prefer. Yeah, it's a little simple. Like, you know, it doesn't matter how much you make. It doesn't matter where you're from. It doesn't matter what your background is. If you're cool, you're cool. Yeah. Like, it's about you. It's not about your family. It's not about where you're... Yeah, definitely. It's the way I prefer more. I think...
I think that's why some of my Chinese friends who lived in the US, they never felt they have real good American friends. And it's from them because the way they're seeing and making friends and that they consider them as good friends or not. - Interesting. - Oh, really?
Oh, you never, I never thought, I never thought about that. Like, like, I know, I know, I know about the ancestry. I know like people ask like, Oh, you know, like I get that you're with your family, like, you know, your background, you know, but I can, I can, I can see that because, um, I know that my mom is always interested in every intimate detail and she's always sort of assessing and sizing stuff up. So like all,
all my friends, where they work, their parents. Like, she's always curious about that stuff and she remembers it as well. It's almost like that's going to become the judge of character for that person. It's like that's your personal resume in terms of, like, you as a person. But the good news is that you guys both passed the test. They're like, oh, yeah, Howie and Justin, they come from, you know,
respectable families. You can be friends with them. You know, they're like, oh, I think they're always kind of like, uh, kind of comparing from a value structure. Right. So it's not so much judging like how much money you have this and that. It's kind of like, do you have the same values? And, you know, are you the same type of person?
Yeah, I think that all comes from like, you know, a very historical context of culture back then, right? Like, back in the day, you kind of had to use as much information, get as much information about a person's background and family to figure out if you can trust them or not, I guess, right? Like, yes, it's a very...
It's a very old traditional way, but like through time it's become part of the culture because it was necessary back then. Whereas now in today's world, it's maybe less and less necessary in terms of like,
defining who you are based on where your family's from and your kind of lineage, maybe. Because even in Europe back in the day, if you look at medieval times and kings and queens, I am of house, whatever. It's all about family. Like a blood. Yeah, and then if you were to do something that was really bad, you would disgrace your whole family. And even your kids after that would have to bear the shame
and burdens of that. Actually, if you explain it that way, I felt like Americans and Chinese are similar and have more similarities than Europeans.
- Okay, how so? - Yeah, 'cause they're based on the blood. They still have a king and queens. And China right now is based on the people. And the American never, like they all based on people. They never had a king or queen and have the ancestor and who you defining you are. - Well, that's actually a really good,
concept you bring up. And I would love to get your view on that because I think a lot of people, whether they're local Chinese or they're Americans, they feel like, okay, China and America are these so different in terms of culturally and people. They feel like they're very different. And in many ways, obviously they are. But so what has your experience told you in terms of that difference? Is it a lot smaller than you initially thought before you went to the United States?
- I never, okay, so how I say this. And then there's two different perspective.
As what we discussed earlier, like about like ancestors from families and the countryside, I feel more similar. And the way of what we taught is like working harder and build your future and you have a dream and you make it, you make it or not, like you have to work hard to get it. And that's, I think, one of the principles as American kids learned as well.
um the american dream yeah the american dream like china chinese dream chinese have that too yeah exactly yeah and this this way is really similar to me um but like the difference is and of course is how you talk to individually is more like down to individually compared to the grand pictures yeah that's interesting because
Without getting too much into politics, we try not to go too much there. At least I try not to. No, no, you just mentioned it.
You know, the U.S. was kind of formed through this notion of a revolution. And I think China has a new history, right? Let's just kind of put it that way. And I think this notion of a meritocracy, if I work hard, you know, it doesn't matter necessarily what my background is. But if I work hard, I'm smart, I'm clever, I'm willing to do a little bit more, I can be successful. And of course, we know that that's been the fabric of
you know, the U S and I think that was why they separated from, you know, um, from, from England. So this notion of a meritocracy, I think that is something in common, right? If you're a Chinese child today, like, yeah, if you work hard, um, you have great ideas and you want to help society, then you can make things, you know, happen. So I'll leave it at that, that, because it can go in a lot of directions. Well, I think that all stems back to, you know,
regardless of the governing systems, like both, both countries are very capitalistic, right? Capitalism drives everything. And I think that's what the new generation of kids are seeing in terms of coming up and being successful and working hard is taking advantage of this capitalistic system that we live in. And both countries are, you know, obviously have adopted capitalism, um, very deeply. So, yeah. Yeah.
You know, Chen Yu is our first guest that is, I mean, Chinese citizen. Oh, really? So that's why we're asking a lot of like this. Yeah, in case you were wondering. Yeah, I was wondering. We want to hear this perspective from a, you know, Chinese person. A lot of things we talk about here on the show are, you know, coming from us, coming from America, living in China. And you have that kind of opposite, you know. Yeah.
coming from China going to America. So we want to hear that different perspective and, and you're a great, great person to ask.
to hear about that. So that's why we're asking these kinds of questions, just so in case you're wondering. - Why do you keep asking about Chinese stuff? - 'Cause we know what we say and everything that we've been saying is very from a very one-sided view of how we see the world and our experiences. And obviously your experiences,
from a different place, but there's a lot of overlap in our experiences, right? Like we both spent time in the US, we both spent time here, except like how we said, we started from different places and we're going in like kind of like different directions. - Now I'm curious about like how you feel
- When you first moved to China, when three of you first moved to China and there was a difference that you experienced and yeah, what do you feel like that time and the compare right now? - The tables are turned. - Control the mic. - You got us hostage. For me, and I've said this several times, with my friends and being here,
But I felt when I first came to Shanghai, and obviously I can't speak for the rest of China. I can only say for my experience in Shanghai, which is not necessarily representative of the whole of China. But my experience was that I had, and I've always said this, I had more culture shock moving from China.
New York to Los Angeles than I did moving from the United States to China. And I've always said this, I had much more culture shock moving from the East to the West Coast than I did moving from country to country.
And when I came to Shanghai, I assimilated very quickly. I felt comfortable here very quickly. And I didn't want to leave. Sorry, when was that? This was in 2009 when I moved here. I was coming here on and off before then a little bit. But when I actually moved here, it was in 2009. Hold on, Justin, you just said that you felt...
Less of a culture shock coming to China than going to Los Angeles? Yes. And I've always said that. That's blowing my mind right now. How is that possible? I don't know. I just felt like I assimilated here and there was less... Are you saying... It sounds like from what I'm gathering is you said that when you came here, you felt comfortable. Are you using comfort as your barometer? As one of the metrics. As one of the metrics. But I also feel like coming from New York...
You know, Shanghai, in terms of like being a metropolitan city, the pace...
the vibe, the energy was a lot more similar. It's very New York. In that sense, right? Like you're saying, like people walking down the street, everyone's got a place to be. Because it's right before Expo and everything is simulated and the city and getting better and better. Yeah. And then, you know, even culturally, like when you talk to people, obviously, you know, it's a different language, but in the tone and the way people talk and with the kind of
urgency and directness I think people talk here was a little more akin. There's differences, but it was a little more similar to New York. And I've said this in a previous podcast, when I moved to New York to Los Angeles, because I had never really spent any time in the West Coast before then, I was not ready for the culture there. I didn't know. So in coming from the East Coast with my friends,
we would talk a lot of shit to each other you know and that would be a form of being close you know the more shit you can talk with each other the more you can make fun of each other represented how close you were because the more closer you are the more comfortable you are making like you know cracking jokes with each other and busting each other's balls but when i went to the west coast you can never do that yeah exactly do you feel that do you feel that you have to talk like oh my god darling how
- Are you? - They're more sensitive, right? They're more sensitive. - Yeah, you're great, you're so amazing. - Right? And in the East Coast, you don't have to do that necessarily. So what would you say in New York? Like, "Bitch, bitch." - "Get the fuck off my seat." - Yes, exactly. Yeah, like, "Yo, what's up?" Like, if I talk like this in California, they're like,
she's rude yeah it's just rude so you know what i'm saying right yeah so that that's that's what i'm talking about like to me that was much more of a culture shock oh really to me because then all of a sudden i was like the asshole there right i was like the alpha dog like aggressive guy right and that was never me in the east coast like i was never that and i was a docile person so that's what i mean like more culturally i felt i had much more similarities here
culturally than I did from the east to the west coast in Los Angeles. - So what about you? Like New York and LA, what do you prefer? And how much have you spent in different places?
- Los Angeles is still new to me, but I did spend at least few months there from two years ago. Like every year I spent like few months, at least one month. In the beginning, I just thought, "Oh, they're so nice. "Everything's amazing and look so beautiful than ever."
Because I'm like, oh, darling, you look so good. Even though you know you look so shit. I'm like, okay, good. Because I never heard any compliments or anything from my agent or from my friends in New York because we always talk shit. Not really talking shit with each other. Just not really talking about the unnecessary compliments.
It's like no bullshit. Yeah, no bullshit. And just direct to the point. And then we're talking about our problems, things. But when I moved to Los Angeles, I'm like, oh, why are people always complimenting me? And then why? And then of course I Googled it. So it became that much of an issue where you had to like, what is going on here? These people are weird. And then
- Also, and also I hear like people talking about like around me, so, oh, there's a different wife there and you hear there's and there and then you'll go, oh, why valley girl is valley girl? - Valley girl. - Valley girl is valley girl. But they always say it's so different.
I did my homework so like okay if you want to talk like this I talk with because of my profession and I always talk with different people and I don't want make them mad I'll like make
they feel I'm not comfortable with them. So I try to adapt the way they talk. Now I get used to it. But every time if I go back, I have to, there's a volume of like how-- - The intonation. - The intonation, yeah. How I talk with different people and that's just-- - So you gotta turn up the compliments, right? Whereas in New York, you just put it on mute. - Yeah.
- Yeah, sometimes, yeah. - So you have to put like, yeah, exactly. You have to have a filter in the West Coast, whereas you can take that filter off in the East Coast. - Do you have a preference?
No, I love verbose. Now we can coin a new phrase. So if it's true genuine praise, then it's not an LA comment or an LA compliment. Okay, if it's an LA compliment, it will be, oh my God, that movie is fucking awesome. You guys have to see it. And I look fucking amazing. Okay. What's a New York compliment then?
It's good enough. So I'm curious, like, why did you get into modeling and how do you define success with your career? Oh, wow.
So I was pretty naive. The friend I'm talking about, they were in the modeling major in my school. You know, there's a university and I have modeling major. There's a modeling major, okay. Yes. And they teach you how to pose and how to walk and how to performance, how to act and how to do your makeup. Yeah, like a professional model, like training. For me, I never have access to...
So you never went through that? You just kind of learned on your own? Yeah, like with friends I would ask them and they would explain a little bit like there and there and because I never really take it seriously even though I made them like a small money from the first job but I was like
I don't know if I can do this or not. And maybe I did go on, still like finish my school, go on internship and work different things. But like the opportunity just come along and I took it. After two years, I think. Was there a moment where you decided this is what I want to do full time?
The reason is not that fun. And also it's really practical for me. I was interning and everything. I found out if I become like whatever, like a fashion designer, another job or whatever I have,
I don't make that much money. And it's like from the little ground. And also, of course, I asked myself, do I really want to do this and to become...
a better designer or a better stylist or whatever like the fashion related job is. I like, no, I kind of love the few seconds on the stage. And even though I know it's not always the few seconds for every single seconds in your life.
So I decided to quit my internship at that time and just took the contract from the modeling agency. And of course there's an attraction for the modeling world and still want to know more of the world and the glamorous and also I enjoy the stage.
a lot more than I thought I would. And also it's a challenge, a new challenge for me and for my new chapter of-- - You actually did more runway, right? You did more runway in the beginning.
Because there's a big difference. There's pinyin. There's like advertorial, advertising. And then there's runway. I mean, there's very different type of models. So you did a lot of runway first, right? Do you still do runway now or you do more photo? Like more photos. And also there's a big difference. And I always thought of like a fashion, really fashionable fashion.
As a model and then in China, but while I moved to US they considering me as a commercial model and not really fashion. - Interesting. So what's the, you know, from a person who's on the outside, like what is the difference between a fashion model and a commercial model? - So for in the West,
So for the fashion model, it's more like you go to full fashion weeks every season, like Milan, Paris, London, New York, right? And then you do more runway and you work with the luxury fashion brands. And then for commercial models, it's more like you work more as a...
平面模特, like for prints, that round, you don't really do. Like billboards, magazine. What's the money difference? Is the pay a lot different between the two? Or is, you know, what's...
Do you make more money doing commercial shoots? It can be similar. Yeah, it can be similar. And also it depends on person. It seems like print would be more mass distribution, right? So like if you were on a billboard in a magazine, it would be mass distribution.
- But like for runways and in the beginning, nobody get paid. - I feel like runways, I mean, from my knowledge, I've just never behind the scenes, but like from my knowledge, I mean, runway modeling is a lot more like tough than commercial.
No, same. Really? Yeah, same. What I mean by difficult, not necessarily in the workday, because obviously doing a runway show, it's only like 15 minutes on the floor, some rehearsal time, and fitting, right? Yeah. Like really. But what I'm saying is that like in terms of...
you have to keep a certain type of fit. You have to, you have to like keep a certain type of like attitude, like look like the requirements to stay as a runway model is a lot higher. Cause in commercial, you can always Photoshop.
But now we don't use Photoshop. Like our e-commerce, they don't have that budget anymore. But how is that? Yes, it is. But if you are naturally size zero and you're like an extra S, of course you're perfect for runway. If you are not naturally as skinny as what they require you are,
Of course, there's more work. Yeah. So how do you get jobs? It's more like...
really tied to your agent, like an agency. And your agency is your own, like your thing. But for that is, now it's a little bit, changed a little bit because the social medias and then people want to find you on your social media, say where you are as a person. But of course that can help with social media
some of the jobs, but most of the jobs and the things that you booked is mainly from your agency. - Well, with the contract you have with your agency, are you allowed to take jobs directly? If like someone was to reach you through like, let's say your Instagram directly to you, could they book you? Would they be able to, are you allowed to take a job directly, not through the agency? - No. - You're not, right? - No.
and also for us is different, like the agency only in charge of different territories. Um, for example, my New York agency only in charge with East coast, like, uh, New York, New York states, for example. And the form, um,
For me in Los Angeles is different agency and each country is different. - I see. Did you have to get permission to come on the Honest Drink? - China don't have agents. - We're all good here. - We bypassed that. - So how did they, what's the fee structure? Like do they take commissions based on your, how much work you get or something like that? - Yes, yes, of course. And if you are my agent, how much you would take.
I don't know. I don't know what the market rate is for commissions. He's only going to take 1%. He's good. He's good. You don't have to worry. How much do they usually take, though? Like, percentage-wise, like, what is it? Oh, each country is different. But what's, like, the standard? The standard. There's no standard.
- I remember when I first start in Shanghai, they take 50. - 50% half. - That's just ridiculous. I heard about that back in the day in China. - So I'm guessing in the States it's around 20? I'm guessing. - Yeah, 20. - Oh yeah? Okay. - 20 from me and also 20 from the clients.
So if the clients and the customer want to use your service, they have to pay a service fee, basically like that. So in total, the agency makes 40%. Yeah, it's like an agency fee. And then along with her fee, another percentage. Yeah.
So I want to start moving towards another subject, but still kind of, you know, based on what you're about. Because one thing you mentioned to me before was,
You're sort of on this track now. I mean, you've been in the States for a couple of years. You're still continuing your career as a model, but also maybe some other things as well. And one thing you're trying to do is also, you know, continuing to try to improve yourself and learn. So what are some of the things that you're trying to do that maybe you want to talk about?
Oh, there's a money. Like what's something that's really important to you right now? Like, for example, for example, for us, we, we, we sometimes talk about, um, you know, things that we have, uh, learned about that help us become better people, um,
form better habits, change our perspective, things like that. I'm speaking very general right now. I don't want to get too specific, but we share it on the show and we kind of help each other as well and hopefully our listeners. So maybe something from your side that you're trying to do. Yeah.
What you just said, for the past two to three years, I've been working on improving myself. And I've been looking in... Because I think skill is skills. And you learn skills while you want to...
you improving your working skills or whatever skills doesn't mean you improving yourself. I think as a woman, as a girl, we've been going... For us, it's been going through more internally and emotional struggles than guys. So I'm like a really...
Really interested at the self-empowering. Self-empowerment. Yeah, self-empowerment. Excuse me. So when you say self-empowerment, I mean, I'm just going to assume or maybe even ask, is this coming from Jesus Christ, guys? I mean, I know you guys want to add more alcohol, but you guys are going to be a little intense here with the sound. Okay, calm down.
All right. So self-empowerment. Is that coming or affecting you? Is that coming from the whole Me Too movement, feminism? I mean, there's a lot of the spotlights on the women in general in the States, the women's movement, even more so recently in the past couple of years. You know, those...
Those events and those terms definitely raise the awareness for you to think about yourself, but not necessarily because of the moment
And also I think it's because of age, and when you grow into a certain age, naturally you will think, "What's next?" And also because my profession, we have a lot of free time, and we don't have 9-5 schedules every day.
Sometimes you work a week and sometimes you rest for two weeks. So it's a really flexible time and you have a lot of time to spend with yourself. I think it's because of the job insecurity and everything raised pressure
inside of me and to think about oh maybe there's a I need to think more of how to dealing with my inner struggles and with my inside securities and
Yes. So I've been reading a lot more of like how to. What are some things that you've gotten? What are some things maybe you don't have to go into detail, but like just some bullet points of things that maybe you've read or heard or whatever that has affected you that you're trying to incorporate into your life? Yeah.
Because I've been... So I'm really open about that period of my time. And I was a little bit depressed while I was in New York for at least a year. I don't know how should I do. I always talk with friends. But friends... For us, we never had the... You know, the...
How to say that? 可以讲中文。 就是没有一个教育告诉你, 你可以去找心理医生, 然后去跟他们聊这些事情。 That's actually a good point, because what you just said is that in China, in general, you...
I mean, generally speaking, Chinese people don't think about, oh, I have a mental illness or I have mental, any type of mental problems. I should go see a therapist. It's very taboo. Yeah. And from a young age, you're never taught to seek help. You're never taught to seek like you can go see a therapist. It's okay. You know, people go through issues all the time and it's good to talk about these things. And there are professionals out there who,
who can help you talk through these things. And you don't really learn these things at a young age here. - Yeah, no, nobody talk to you. And they think, nobody see that as a problem. - They kind of hide you, right? - It's like, "Are you okay?" - It's like ashamed of it. - Yeah, yeah. - It's taboo. - Yeah, they never really think, "Oh, there's a problem." And I guess that's a good thing for me to be in New York while I was there, and when I've been through that.
But I learned in a hard way that I, because my background and my education didn't tell me to seeking for help. And I was talking with
but apparently they're all in China. They think, oh, I don't even understand what you're talking about. And then later on, I learned what I did by that time has helped me a lot is I went back to drawing. I went back to painting. I went back to what I loved while I was a kid.
when I was a kid. - Expressing yourself through art. - Yeah, expressing myself through the strokes and everything, like from the paper. And then later on I learned as art therapist and they use a lot of, well, yeah, art therapy. They use a lot of, well, the younger kids and the younger children's, they have
mental problems. Yeah. - So do you see a therapist in New York now or a psychiatrist or anything like that? - No, and after that period, I was just like Googling on the YouTube and also like read a lot of books
not really specific, just in general. And I think I wasn't really bad, like worse enough. So I feel able to help myself. - So what do you see as like one of your main struggles in terms of being a person and your own personal development and growth and just you, like what would you say is like one of the things, something you struggle with?
- That time, I don't know. Like at that time it's just like, I don't have that many friends there and I feel alone and yeah, loneliness. I guess it's loneliness. - So it was like socially, like you just felt like outcasted and just lonely. - Yeah, 'cause that's the different culture thing. In China, you're always like a group. - Surrounded by people. - Surrounded by people and you go always groups and people.
It's naturally, it's a habit and you take care of each other here. But while I moved over there and then there's nobody. - It's like every person for themselves out there, right? - Yeah, kind of. - So after five years in New York, is that something you still struggle with a little bit or is it? - No, not really. Not now. Now I...
I kind of know like what I expect and also I respect people who acting like who from their American friends and why they why is acting like that. Yeah. Do you think I mean I have my own thoughts about it but do you think mental illness is a big problem in China? I do. Yeah.
- I do say it. - I agree. - Yeah, I do say it, but I don't want to judge it. 'Cause be honest, a lot of people here, they did it subconsciously and judging people a lot and with day-to-day life. And that what I felt every time I come back here.
But when you point it out and they don't think that's a problem and they never notice and they are judging people and tell you what you should do, what you should not do all the time. For me, I never want to judge people. Who you are is who you are. And how you do things is how you do things.
I respect that if we're friends, we're friends. If we're not, we're not. And really natural. But here, I guess everybody think, have the perspective like I can be someone else. Well, I think there's a lot of certain type of standards that men and women have. Yeah.
society and from a societal perspective so for example i'll give myself as an example if i were one day to go home and say that i'm feeling you know depressed or my confidence level is low or whatever um maybe my significant other will come and be like
stop that talk you're a man be a man like like literally like that kind of response right like they would shut it down like like like like you know oh stop being go out and have some fun with your friends like yeah i mean or if i were to say no but this is an ongoing issue i have i have history for with depression and i'm going into it again i think i need to figure out a way to get out of it
Yeah, just go take a cold shower. Yeah, don't think so much. Just be a man. I don't want to hear this. People don't want to confront the issue of mental illness as much here. And even just in terms of overall awareness, there's just less awareness, less education about mental illness, mental issues than in the West. But even in the West, it's only really... It's a stigma too. It's a stigma too, exactly. But even in the West, what I'm saying is,
it's only really recently come like kind of like forward in terms of it being a big topic and issue. And they're still addressing it today. You know what I mean? It's,
for a long time in the west up until very recently it's been very similar than here it's very kind of taboo people don't really want to talk about it it's not something you really want to admit and no one you know it's it's this uncomfortable subject for a lot of people to talk about but now you have all these people coming forward you have celebrities coming forward you have athletes coming forward talking about their mental illness illness issues and now it's like starting to be accepted as like
oh this is something we should really address this is something that's okay to talk about yeah so it's not like you seem like a pretty positive person but you know like on this topic you've kind of gone through you know some ups and downs right what got you through that period of time to kind of get you are get you where you are today was there any thing that helped um
Just like you said, I'm a positive person. Even though when I went through that period of time, I didn't really know after I got out. And now I reflect back on that period of my time. Like, oh, actually, I was a little bit depressed. But because of my...
I don't know, like for me, I was thinking positively and everything and I did things subconsciously to help myself because I always want to help myself to win back.
Yeah, I think that's just like naturally. Like for me, it's naturally to be positive. So maybe sometimes it's awareness thing. Just for other people that are trying to kind of cope with these things, what are some of the things that you realize that you did subconsciously that maybe some people could kind of remember to do consciously?
talk with friends and seeking for help. Talk with many, many friends that you can. Just talk about it. Yeah, don't be ashamed of it. Yeah, don't be ashamed about it. Don't bury it. Don't think that's an issue about you and just address it. The more you talk about it, the more you express yourself and do whatever you need to do to let the feelings out and that can help. Were there any...
I think that's powerful because we have this, you know, humans have this natural tendency to communicate and, you know, and when things happen, I always call Howie. He knows this and he, Howie got me through a lot of things and we do the honest drink to kind of talk through things. What else did you do? Did you like, did you go see movies or what are some things that help take your mind off? You know, what's going on?
listen to music. Yeah. That have a lot. Um, and also do activities, of course, accesses. Well, staying busy, I think is a big thing, right? Because if you, if you, if you're in this depressed state, um,
And you're not feeling good. And you just sit there and wallow. That's not good. You have to get out. I agree. Stay busy. But like how? Like what do you do? Like for me it's...
maybe yoga, like you, you, physical activity, like a physical activities. And about while you do the physical activities that your mind still can be clear out and to regroup yourself and do meditations and, you know, just like a relax and chill. Do you work out? Yeah, I do.
- Not working out, working out, not like hits. More like a yoga, like a soft movement. Sometimes boxing. - Boxing? Okay. - Do you still do a lot of drawing and painting and stuff like that? - Yeah, every day. Like since few years ago,
I am so grateful for that period of my time. And if it's not because of that time, I will never pick it up back. Do you feel that's the most effective therapy for you? Yes. Well, I want to piggyback on that. I think it's probably pretty important for everyone to find something that they can...
you know, grab onto, right. And use as an escape. Yeah. Right. So for a 10 year, it's art, right. It's painting, it's drawing. Right. Uh, for me is when I go out, um, you know, when I feel it, I go out and with my camera, I just, just shoot photos. Right. Or just spend some time in a cafe with a notebook, you know, like to me, that's my escape. You know, do you have an escape, Justin? Yeah. Boxing. Yeah. Boxing is your escape. Yeah. What about you, Eric? Um,
- No, I don't really need it. - Get the fuck out of here. - But I'm curious. - Yelling at people. - Yeah, it is, yelling at people. I'm curious, what do you draw? What do you like drawing? - Everything, mainly is this-- - Can you draw us after this show? - Probably you'll all look like me.
Like a self portraits. Do you ever post some of these things on your account? Yeah, I did. I did. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. But it's just like a more selective, more selective. You've been in the, you know, the U S and this career for about five years now. Do you meet younger versions of yourself and yeah,
Do you sort of, you know, try to take on that mentor role with them at all? Or are you still sort of early enough in things where... I try not to.
- Really, I try not to. - Why? - 'Cause I think for me, I respect what doesn't matter and what they've been through with their career and everything. Of course, if there's things they want to ask me about contracts and how to avoid unnecessary problems and those technical things, I will help.
But like in general, I think everybody should take on their own journey. Kind of like just live, learn through living. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sometimes,
- Yeah, the other thing about being a Chinese is that you learned if you don't let your children to do whatever they want to do, if they still want to do it, and then there's-- - That's right. - Yeah, no matter how much you beat them, they ain't gonna learn. - Exactly, they have to make their own mistakes. - That's really true. Yeah, just like, you know, you can't tell
you can't tell anybody to change, you can't tell anybody to take your advice, you know, they have to want it and they have to go through it. Yeah, that's the term of like, let it go, let it go and let it be. Frozen. So do you adopt, personally, do you adopt this idea of like Zen and just like trying to like go with the flow and be like water or like what is your mentality usually now when you're dealing with like adversity?
Yeah, probably let it be. Just let it be? Yeah, let it be. Do you ever get pissed off? Of course. When was the last time you got pissed off? Can't remember. Okay, that's good. See, that's perfect. I don't think I've ever seen her pissed off. I think she's overall pretty...
Are you the type of personality to keep things inside and not... I used to be, but now no. If I still am, I will never share a lot of things I'm sharing right now. Do you have a best friend in New York? I do. Okay. Yeah.
She's awesome. Okay. Give her a shout out. Is she a model? Yeah, she's a model. Okay. Do you talk, do you guys talk shit to each other? Or do you give like compliments? Like, oh my God, girl, you're so amazing. Is it LA compliments or New York compliments? Yeah. I'm going to introduce you to her. Eric's like, finally. No, no, no. That's what Eric was trying to get at this whole time. No, no, no, no, no. I want to live.
No, no, no. We're good. We're good. All right. So how about this? Because you're only here for a couple of days. Yeah. So first of all, I want to thank you for coming on to the show. Thank you. And give me something to do.
Well, no, I mean, you're only here for a little bit of time. And I'm sure you had a lot of people to meet and a lot of things to do. Yeah, thanks for taking the time. This is really interesting to me. And what Hao Wei mentioned, and of course I did my research and everything. Yeah, you did your research before coming on this show. Oh, you listened to some shows. You wanted to know what you were getting yourself into. Yes, of course. She's like, I don't want to come on. It's horrible. I'm like, come on, just try. So we...
We know there's a lot of people that were trying to get on the show. So what was one thing that was different than what you expected? Here? Yeah, being on the show.
You know one thing that touched me is like a three friends and try to do something Because I know all of you have your own professions But you take your time kind of doing this as a ritual and to do every yeah like every I don't know every week or every two weeks and inviting different people and to talk about like a day-to-day things That it really touched me like
really touched me in a way of I think people like for friends should be more open like some close closer friends should be more open to other new friends and again new ideas and also be able to talk things that you're talking in privately more openly to help other people not help but like just in general three hours and more quality talks
Can I add one thought? Yeah. Is that okay? Well, thank you for being on the show. I learned a lot. Every time we do an episode, we reflect on why we're doing this, you know, and why we came together. I mean, there's so many things we could be doing. We've done probably 20-something shows, and in the beginning it wasn't easy, and, you know, it was something we didn't know if we could sustain. Yeah.
And it's sort of become, you know, a habit and a routine. And then, you know, the word you use ritual, right? I mean, ritual is kind of like, it's, it's the cultural element of it. It's you do something and then you, you celebrate it a little bit. Right. And so I think, you know, we've done like 20 something shows. We reflect on why we do this show. And I was just, as you were talking and Justin was talking, I was thinking why we're here. And, um,
we get a lot of energy out of being together. We also get a lot of energy out of meeting new people and taking certain things that you talked about, like some private things or things that don't, we don't always surface and bringing it into an open environment. And we're always learning. We're always growing. And I think for me, that's what has continued to give me energy. And so, you know, for our listeners, I,
We hope that, you know, you enjoy these things, give us feedback, give us suggestions so that we can bring you on that journey. But, you know, we're kind of doing this in a way to,
to learn from one another and bring everyone together, right? And introduce new ideas. So, you know, I really enjoy this and I really appreciate Justin and Howie for, you know, kind of being part of it. Oh, to bring it back full circle in terms of a term you, we used in the very beginning, you know, in, from your own words is that, you know, we can all be pretty cocky at times and for a large part of our lives we have, um,
But it's about coming back to this and being humble and being humble to be like, look, there's still more we can improve. There's still more we can learn much more.
And there are people that we can learn from. Like anyone we have a conversation with, there is something to be taken away from that conversation. There's always something. Yeah. So it's going back to that kind of humble roots, but using humbleness as a vehicle to grow from. Right? So really, you know, that's really kind of the thing. Let's cheers to all together, all four of us and the listeners all growing together. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. To the humble drink. I mean, the honest drink. The honest drink. Yeah.
man that was good alright folks we'll see you next time again if you want to reach us you can always reach us at our email thehonestdrink at gmail.com if anybody wants to check you out on Instagram what's your Instagram account it's a name that can give you love it's
It's called Asian Glam. Asian Glam. Yes. So your Instagram header is Asian Glam. Yes. Okay, I want you guys to go check out Asian Glam. A-S-I-A-N-G-L-A-M. Recently, I'm back on Weibo as well. Oh, okay, good. What's your Weibo name? Ping, ping character Chen Yu, C-H-E-N-Y-U underscore Sen Yu. Okay. Like in Chinese. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, check her out on Weibo and Instagram. All right.
Alright guys. Peace. Thank you.