#46. Janine Jakob: The Choice
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What's up, everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. You can always reach us at thehonestdrink at gmail.com. And if you've been enjoying this show, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe. Now, our guest today is a happiness and career coach. She is also the founder of Full Potential Partners and co-founder of Monday Morning Motivation. She's someone that's extremely motivated, and she just has an incredible outlook and mindset on how to live life and get things done.

And one of the things I like most about her is that she doesn't pretend to be something she's not. She has a very organic yet decisive approach to how she lives her life. And you can just feel that by talking to her. We had a great conversation talking about happiness, success, fear, failure, productivity, comfort zones, self-awareness, and knowing what you want. So without further ado, please welcome Janine Jakob.

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How do I pronounce your last name? Is it Jakob? Jakob. Janine Jakob. Janine Jakob. Wow, well said. Hey. Yes. Well, cheers. Cheers. Good to meet you. How do you think about it? Do you usually drink whiskey? I know you said you have a whiskey voice. But is that because you're actually drinking whiskey? No, but you know what? Since I've arrived in Shanghai...

I actually was through a few dates that I had the opportunity to be introduced to whiskey. Like, I know that I like whiskey. Uh-huh.

But don't ask me which kind of whiskey. I just, I can only tell you like there is a good Japanese whiskey, but that's all I can say. So I wouldn't know. But normally I don't really drink it, but this one's really good. Yeah, it is pretty good, right? We're drinking the Beaumont 15 year today. As you can see, Janine, these are all the bottles on this wall that we've finished. With all of your guests? Yeah, throughout all the episodes. Wow.

Okay, but I gotta tell you something now. If you want to do cheers with a German, you gotta do it the right way. Oh, okay. What's the right way? Are you ready to be taught? I am more than ready. Okay, very important, yes. When we do cheers, we need eye contact. Eye contact, okay. Yes. Like, do not do cheers and then look away. That would be worse. Is that considered rude? Ah, well, not really rude, but we say if we don't look into each other's eyes, you're gonna have, yes, bad sex for seven years. Oh.

Okay, I better look in your eyes then. Exactly. That's the German way. God, good job. I'm keeping eye contact even now. So how long do you have to maintain this eye contact for? As long as possible? Well, I don't know about this, but it feels pretty good. I think you're doing a really good job. I feel like you're even better than the Germans. Good job. Really? It feels natural. When Germans cheers, do they say anything? Well, in German we would say, Post. Post. Or Zum Wohl.

Okay. Yeah, like cheers. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, very important is I have to teach all of my foreign friends. I mean, that's my culture, right? So I got to teach everyone about this. Well, the eye contact is easy with you. Okay. Oh, with you too. Yeah, but not with everyone. And the worst is they have eye contact. And then when the killing of the glasses happens, they look away.

Oh, gosh. And then I get to explain it over and over again. It takes a few practices. Well, isn't that like a thing for everyone? Like eye contact for a lot of people is actually a very awkward thing, right? Yeah. Even on the streets, if you make eye contact with somebody, you know, immediately one person or both people will look away immediately, right? Why do you think it's such an awkward thing for us? But it also depends on the culture a bit.

So let me give you one example. I actually think that here in China, a lot of people love to look at you. And often they even kind of like do it in a very obvious way. If you go to probably Germany, it can also happen that people just look at you.

But yeah, it happens that when we look into each other's eyes, as you said, then people feel a bit shy. Well, the China example, people do like to look at you, but they like to look at you when they think you're not looking back at them. Yeah, that's a good point. Because they like to observe you, right? They like to observe you because they're nosy or whatever it is, right? They just like to, it's like more of a cultural thing. They like to stare at you. But once you stare back at them, and I've done this several times when I've caught people staring at me,

I stare back at them immediately they look away. Once they know they're caught, right? So it's still that maintaining eye contact I feel is very awkward for people. - That's true. Yeah, they feel shy or as you said, Chinese people then feel caught. But if you go to Finland, because I lived in Helsinki for three, not three years, three months, there is even more weird.

Like literally, this is Finnish culture. Finnish people don't want to have something to do with strangers. So don't talk to a stranger in a bus. Don't even look at a stranger, even on the street. Like I'm not even talking about eye contact, but like don't even look at me. Just look straight forward.

forward and as I said even on the bus we don't talk so I used to work for HP for seven years and during this time I also worked for HP in Finland and the funny thing was even when I came in the office everyone knew I was a new person everyone saw me even like our highest managers and I would have expected that they would do the first step to say hello welcome or something like this

No, they didn't. So it was me who had to do the first step if I want to like get in contact with them or build up a work relationship or yeah, so you can see how different cultures are. But at the same time, even if you're nervous, it was a really good practice to make you get out of your comfort zone. And to, yeah, like to just take advantage. And once you took the first step or you were drinking alcohol with them, yes, that's Finland.

So is it more of a cultural thing for them? It's kind of rude to look at strangers? No, it's not rude as far as I know. It's just like... It is. Yeah, they're just not used to talking to strangers. But once you did the first step, they have such a big heart. And for example, if they tell you, Janine, I'm going to take you to tennis or to the shopping mall during the weekend, even if a colleague says that,

he or she is going to do it. Whereas, for example, I also lived in the US twice for six months. And don't get me wrong, I love both cultures. But it's sometimes something I don't really like about like, American culture, when they just tell something, they just say something, yeah, I'm gonna take you to a shopping mall, let's go there and there and there. But they never actually do it. The words become meaningless. Exactly. Their talk is cheap over

- Yeah, yeah, it's just like, yeah, words for me have a meaning. And if you tell me something, I take your words. Not only in business, but also in private life. - Well, you kind of have to, right? You're a profession, you're also, you know, you're a public speaker.

motivational speaker, happiness and career coach, right? So you have, I mean, your career is largely based on the words you say, right? And how other people are absorbing that information.

That's correct, but it's not only about what I say out loud. More important is also for you what you tell yourself. Now coming to self-talk. I guess many of us, we often experience some negative self-talk. We're very critical on ourselves. We put a lot of pressure on our shoulders, right?

I mean, we are sometimes our biggest enemy, the toughest person. It's not our parents or our friends who are that tough on us or our employer. Most of the times it's us being tough on us even more than anyone else. So how do you actually talk to yourself?

That is something that most barely anyone really talks about. And this now goes back to a positive mindset and also why some entrepreneurs achieve more than others. Or during coronavirus, when we were all like stuck at home. I don't have family, husband, kids or anything here in China. So yes, I was stuck home alone by myself.

So in these times where we all get crazy at one point, it's even more important how strong your mindset is and what kind of self-talk you have to yourself. If you just like say negative things to you, because you know, whether you say something positive or negative,

Like, it doesn't make a difference. And you know, like, there's even like some science behind it that says that if you use words like not or some negative words, your brain cannot really like they kind of like overhear the word not.

So this is why we should be so aware of how we not only talk to other people and in public, but also how do we talk to ourselves, especially if we want to encourage each other to do or to achieve something or to believe in ourselves.

Well, so you're talking about like that inner voice, right? That inner critic. Yes. And when you, so that's almost more important than what you're saying to others is what you're saying to yourself, right? Yes. So like, I mean, I've heard that before in terms of, you know, positive reinforcement, self-reinforcement, positive mindset is a very powerful tool, right? Yeah.

But do you feel that there is a place and use for that inner critic to tell you that, like, wait a minute, like just to reel you back in sometimes maybe, maybe to try to ground you in a little bit more, a little more reality if you're kind of getting too far ahead of yourself? Do you believe that? Oh, for sure. I mean...

We probably got it for a reason. But I think you should just check on yourself. Is it a balance? And which voice? I often love to use the term of an angel and a devil. We know this from the movies. And then you have this like, you're in a situation, you have the devil and the angel talking to you on the right and left side of your head. And then they're having this fight and this conversation. And then you have to make a decision. So who do you listen to? And I personally think that

Overall, the voice inside me should be more, let's say, maybe the angel side. And what I mean with this is more like the positive talk than the devil saying, no, you can't and just like being the critic. Mm-hmm.

But, okay, that's in terms of like saying yes or no to certain things, right? Yeah. But the devil's sometimes a little more fun to listen to sometimes. Oh, yeah, that is true. I mean, like, come on, we all need to have a life. We also need to have fun sometimes. And sometimes it's just fun to do something that maybe you're not supposed to do. And yeah, for sure, we need both. Well, that's why I think you're really interesting to talk to, Janine, because...

You know, I feel like you have a very well-rounded grasp on kind of how to

how to move forward, how to think about things in terms of self-motivation, happiness, confidence, right? But you also don't take yourself, it seems, you don't take yourself too seriously too. Like you understand that we're all humans and we're all gonna have faults and we have our vices and sometimes it's not that bad, you know, sometimes you need to let loose and blow off some steam a little bit to keep that balance.

Actually, it's funny that you say this. So I sometimes have friends or people who don't know me too well. They're actually a little bit surprised once they see a little bit of a different side of me. So let me tell you this. Because

Because of my German background and because I got raised in HP, in a Fortune 500 company. When you say HP, you mean Hewlett Packard? Yes, Hewlett Packard, the IT company. So I kind of got raised in a male environment. I was very lucky to get more or less a senior position at the age of 23, although I was a junior. All of my clients were men in the manufacturing field, Germans, conservative, traditional. So the way how I got raised was very like,

especially in Germany that we separate work and private life compared to China where you kind of like mix it up. And in order for me, like because I'm German, like quality is important. I want to show people that working with me means like I deliver quality and I'm always professional. So this is how I got raised within like the years at HP.

when I studied and there and had my first jobs. So you're kind of like used to this, you got trained to be professional to like from your outfit, from the way how you talk, how you walk, how you do a handshake, a simple handshake, because this is one of the first impressions your clients will also have. Like all the details have to be right. And especially nowadays, also like on social media.

So I feel like there's a lot of pressure in order to how I got trained that you have success in your business. But then I got to tell you, like, because I have a lot of pressure. I mean, I run my business by my own. I don't have any partners in there. So basically, it's all about dependent on you. But like, if I want to get stress out of my body, and we all need our me time, we all need to have a work life balance.

everyone who knows me or who has listened to me they know what do i do i dance i dance off my stress you dance yes i dance so back to anything or do you have a certain type of dance yeah yeah it depends so back in the days for 10 years i used to do salsa bachata like those latin dances recently since i'm in china i don't do this that much

And I just love to go to my favorite clubs. And I love to listen to good hip-hop music. And to be honest, by now, I'm even at the stage where I'm like, okay, you know what? If a friend doesn't have time to go dancing with me, sometimes a friend is busy or is tired or has other priorities or whether wants to go to a bar. Well, you know, it's because...

I need to get stress out of my body. It's about me being healthy. So I have to go dancing. For me, that's the best medicine. So by now, I even go to my favorite club by myself.

Just to dance. Yeah, literally. I don't mind. People may think, oh, are you lonely? Are you so alone? Poor you. Do you want to drink with us or something? Even if people start approaching me, I like talking to a few people. I meet some really cool people on the dance floor. I'm not there to get drunk or anything. No, can I please just dance? Sometimes I don't even want that man hit on me. Can I just dance? But this is like...

As I said, this is like how I stay healthy and stay well, especially mentally healthy, because that stress has to go out. Like, I'm not an aggressive person. I don't yell at people, even like if I feel aggressive or if I'm sad. Sure, we all have to cry at one point. But dancing, that's my...

Ventile? Is that an English word? German, what is ventile? No, ventile. Like to get the pressure out of the cooking pot, for example. Okay, yeah, you're venting the stress, right? Exactly, exactly. So let me just dance and getting back to what we started speaking about. I just love to wear a really nice dress.

And I just want to feel like I'm a human person and I just want to do what I like to do and just take care of myself. And I guess I'm a good dancer.

And people often tell me, oh, wow, you're a really good dancer. And all I want to do is just dance and have fun and smile and not people judging me. And then sometimes like I went to the networking event. It was the first networking event this year after the time of the coronavirus.

So it was organized by Julia's Events and it was on a beautiful terrace and I literally would not have expected like a dance party later on. I thought this is just a business networking event. So you're there to look professional. So the outfit I wore was professional and you're just there to meet potential collaborators. - Hand out business cards. - Exactly. So like the way how I got trained at HP, professional me.

And then later on, people started dancing, like not dance battles, but like they had these circle of people and one person got inside and dance and one after another, but it was business networking event. And then I just did it too. And suddenly they played a salsa. So there was a guy he danced salsa and we started dancing salsa. And later on, people are like, Oh, this was you? I had no idea.

no idea you're such a good dancer and wow how you dance and like this is you like I can't believe that this was you the person who I just saw dancing there because when I dance like you see all of my passion and power and energy in like a completely different way and yeah it's fun but you see a little bit of a different me well I think that's important though right I respect that a lot because

You know, like we talk about, because I've been to, you know, these traditional networking events before. Not the one you're talking. The one you're talking about was LinkedIn Local, right? No, no, no. Julia's events was her five year anniversary. 300 people. Oh, wow. OK. She has amazing events. So the thing the thing with I was about to say is like a lot of these networking events or even like you kind of like business events, whatever it is.

there's always this like facade and it's very fake, right? Like everyone knows they're just putting up, it's like you're sitting in it for an interview, right? You're gonna put up your best image, your most formal professional self. - You learned it by heart. - You learned it by heart. - What you gotta say. - Yeah, it's like, of course, this is how I have to be, right? You have to dress the part, look the part, walk the part, talk the part.

But at the same time, it's just like this little, it's like this kind of awkward tint to it because everyone knows this is not how you are all the time, right? Like we all know that deep down, but yet we all walk around and there's this like this kind of really fake facade going on. But I think what you're saying is it's good to hear like a lot of these networking events are turning more into like just like

more human social events as well, right? Where you can see the other side of people, right? The social side, the fun side, whatever it is.

And that way you actually get even more of a realistic 360 degree understanding of a person. - Yeah, but again, this all goes back to culture because like our culture, like I never think that I'm typical German, except for a few things I'm structured, I love to organize, plan, these kinds of things where I would say, yes, I'm typical German.

But because I lived in the US and France and Finland and China has been the longest now with them like for three years, I would say I'm a global citizen. My mom is actually originally from Russia. So...

I kind of try to take the best out of every culture. And I tell you something that I'm a little bit struggling with, or let's say I'm trying it out. And if you ask me what is the right way or the wrong way, I don't have the answer yet. So coming back to working in a corporate for HP in Germany, I said work and private life was separated. I had maybe two, three friends from work who were my friends in private life. So...

You wouldn't share too much of private information depending on who you talk to in your work environment.

So now that I have my own company and I'm a startup and startups have different business cultures. So I also work with companies on creating or improving their business culture. It's all about like for me, like my employees come first. That's my first value in my business culture that I defined because only if the employees are happy and feel well, then they can also like perform a good service to our clients.

So what I was trying to think about, how do I as a manager now have the communication with my employees? Like, what do I tell them? What do I not tell them?

I give you an example. Private information shouldn't be shared, I thought, or just like a little bit. Or for example, like as an entrepreneur in China, oh God, as a foreigner not being fluent in Chinese, especially in reading, you have so many challenges. I never would have thought it. You literally have so many challenges coming up. Yeah.

So sometimes when I feel like I also don't deliver the quality or the information at the right time that my colleagues would need, I feel a little bit bad. But I shouldn't feel bad about it. At the same time, I want my employees to see the full picture, especially also my interns, to learn what is it like to be an entrepreneur in China or to run your business in general. So by now I have decided that

I'm even going to share a few details with them, a bit about private life or like struggles as a business owner, because I feel like they can only benefit from it. I want them to learn. I don't want them to judge me if I don't do anything right or wrong. And I know they wouldn't judge me, but I want them to learn and to grow from this. Even if they say after a few months or one or two or three years, whatever, yeah, I want to switch the company. It's all about self-development.

And it's the same for my employees. So by now I actually share a few things that the old German me would have thought, no, that's too personal. That is too private. No one should know that maybe here you failed or that this is not done in the perfect way. And of course there is no perfect way.

But also at the same time, I think that my interns and colleagues, they really appreciate it. Especially the interns who really like love to grow and work. Because this is something, especially in a Chinese company, where you have the hierarchies and you got to do what your boss tells you to do. I think they would not be able to experience this in this environment. And...

Yeah. So, so far I try out different ways of how I manage, lead my, um, my team. What are, what are some, uh, what are some like the personal struggles or failures or whatever, uh, that you, you have been through?

Oh God, there's a lot. Like now my company is officially registered for one and a half years. I started this about two years ago. So since more or less day one, when it's like officially registered, I had my interns. I started with interns.

So, I mean, in between last summer, because it was my first summer in China as a business owner, I totally underestimated, like suddenly, like out of nowhere, I had no idea how summers in China are like. And I could barely make any more revenues. So I actually had not only one intern, but I would have had three interns at the same time.

So one guy, he was the first person who I was supposed to hire for a lower salary. But like if this goes well, then after three months, he would have become not only an intern, but a real employee. Also the higher salary. But at one point, because I didn't get any more revenues, I couldn't pay him.

And the other interns, like they had a lower salary than this one person. But they also wanted to work for me because of my business culture and all the kind of learnings and the constant workshops and coachings that I did that they could also attend. Yeah. So what do you do if you don't make revenues anymore? What do you do if suddenly like you are getting burned out? What do you do if suddenly like you actually have to leave the country and

because of visa issues because you got rejected twice although you actually fulfill all the criteria and there's issues with your visa and your agency and suddenly you gotta go to Hong Kong within like a few days so how do you handle out of this all of this if it's just you and you don't have too many savings on the side yet and suddenly you ran out of savings

And at that point, I had just like, invested in my first office building, or like, I mean, office for like four people. And then suddenly all of this happens. And I didn't think that this would happen. I thought, yeah, okay, start business starting to grow. Revenues are coming in. I need more support. I want to have these two, three interns.

And suddenly, like, it's not only that this one intern, I couldn't pay him because I had committed to a bigger amount. It's also because you mentally...

You're just not there. Like everyone who knows me knows, oh yeah, Janine, she's full of energy. I can sleep three or four hours and can still like perform the same like level as if I slept seven hours. That's just me. And also because I'm like passionate, I have a purpose, a vision, and I'm constantly motivated. But there is this point where you feel less motivation, um,

And especially you have this lack of energy as if someone really like sucked out your energy and you cannot even get back within normally like, like, I could recover normally in a few in a day or two, in case I slept too little and I feel tired, but it took days and weeks and you were not really good in setting goals.

Almost like a depression, right? Well, it was like the first signs of a burnout, you know? And then suddenly from, like, as I said, in a few days, I had to leave to Hong Kong. And this was when the demonstrations had started last year. And I wasn't even sure if I'm able to get my next visa because there was a risk. If the agent fails, it means that, like, you cannot apply for a new visa for three months. And, like, you know, the worst is, like,

I didn't do anything bad. I follow the rules. I'm honest. I'm literally like, I'm ripping my ass for my business, for my clients. I'm really doing my best. And you cannot even foresee these kind of things at one point, all these things that can happen. And you just try to do your best, continue. Yeah. And this is like also something that like your employees or your interns or collaborators, they see you in this.

And of course I can try to like smile and pretend I'm a different person but no this takes too much energy again. And at the same time I feel like because I'm also a human I rather would love to be authentic. I'm sure I cannot show this to my clients but at least to my interns I think they can learn something out of it. They can also support me because we are a team.

So at this time, last year, this is when I decided I also share a few like down phases with them. Yeah. I think, I mean, we've touched on this topic several times in past episodes, but I just feel like the world would be a better place if more people were willing to

to share their shortcomings, share on their failures, things that don't make them look necessarily very good, right? And that's what I try to do on this show. In a lot of the earlier episodes, I get very personal about things I've failed at before, things I suck at, things I've done wrong.

And just, you know, general kind of anxiety that I'm going through or whether it's, you know, like my binge eating or a lot of very personal things. But I just feel like if more people were willing to be like, hey, it's not a big deal. Like we're all human. We're not all great. 100% of the time. What we see in social media in terms of everyone's only showing like their best image, right? And their best face. That's not real.

Right. And it creates this this ultra standard that no one's really able to achieve. And that standard becomes like the normal, the norm, the status quo in society. And then all of a sudden everyone's trying to chase the standard. And all of a sudden we we we hate ourselves or we get depressed or we have anxiety because we can't achieve that standard. Yeah. And if more people would just would just be more honest with ourselves.

All the things that they're going through. I think the world would be a better place for it. I totally agree. And you know, the worst is there's a few topics that no one talks about. That's why I really like have a few workshops and especially with not only foreigners, but especially with Chinese. I love to talk about specific topics. Number one, burnout. And especially like

Back at HP, I had a lot of colleagues, I spoke with them about burnout and so on. But no one actually talked about entrepreneurial burnout. And I can tell you like most of my friends, they had at least one or probably several burnouts by now. So yeah, burnout is like a taboo topic. Or as you just mentioned, depression, anxiety, or like going to a psychologist,

I think like going to psychologist changes a bit, especially in a big city like here in Shanghai. It's not really that you really like have to lose face immediately, but no one talks about it. Or even like self-love.

It's really funny like when I do these self-love activities. I have this client in Nanjing and she told me that her mom is very tough on her. And we dig a little bit deeper into this and then of course like there's different generations of people. And basically we found out that her mom is very low on self-esteem. And self-esteem doesn't only mean self-confidence but also self-love.

So the reason why her mom is also so tough on her daughter and has these super high expectations that are just so difficult to achieve, it's also because she

She's like lacking her own self-love. She doesn't take care of her own or like shows herself love. I mean, like who would teach you at university how to love yourself? That sounds even so awkward. It actually sounds a little bit sexual. But yeah, I mean, who tells you that...

First, my child, you have to love yourself. You have to accept yourself and see your own self-worth and don't compare yourself to other people. And then second, for example, in case you want to get married and have a nice husband or a wife, then you can expect other people also to love you.

I would tell you this, no one, and especially also in Chinese culture, but not only in China and like my mom, she's Russian. I had to teach her within a few years how to say I love you to me. And she's doing very well for many years. Mom, I know you don't speak English, but I'm proud of you. So whenever you say I love you, I'm very happy.

So this is why I also talk to people about it. I let them do activities with me, like how you can improve your own self-love. Because the self-esteem, according to psychologists, it's really the basis for everything.

I don't know if any one of you of the listeners or you, Justin, I don't know if you want to be happy in your life. Of course. What about do you want to be successful in your life? Of course. Sure. So then self-esteem, literally. Self-esteem is the basis for everything. So just like build up your self-confidence and yes, your self-love. And you have so many better chances to live a happier life.

as well as also a successful life. And here's the crazy thing, this is also what I feel like no one tells you. I don't know if your grandparents maybe or someone of your family or friends told you

Of course my child or grandchild, I want you to be happy in your life. But you have to make a decision. Do you want to be happy or successful in your life? Again, devil or angel or which path do you want to follow? And also like many people they tell you or tell their children and family members

Of course I want you to be happy. But first of all, you gotta become successful. Meaning you gotta study IT, you gotta study finance, and then like have a senior management position at ICBC Bank, Alibaba, Tencent, wherever. And then at one point in many, many years, then you will be happy.

But according to the science of happiness, here's the fun fact, it's actually the other way around. So if you're happy right here, right now, you have better chances even to become successful. But no one tells you this.

No one speaks about it. And this is where I feel like that is like one part of my mission. I got to tell people about it. And most important is that's why I do interactive workshops. People have to try out these activities on how they can boost their self-love, how they can build their self-confidence or how they can actually like be happier. That's why I also created a 30-day happiness booster program. And every day it just takes you five minutes. Can you afford five minutes of your time alone?

Because at the end, like, I mean, just to do a few little activities and learn a little bit of the theory and signs of different like keys to happiness, for example, because at the end, it helps you to be happier and also boost your degree of success. So it's really that's really fascinating. I never really thought about it that way. But it's like it's like the chicken or the egg, which came first. Right. That eternal debate. Yeah.

And most people, I guess, traditionally thinking is that you have to suffer first. And if you suffer and work hard after a certain amount of time, then you can achieve success or happiness, right? Success and then happiness, right? But what you're saying is that happiness or the mindset of happiness, or at least having a positive mindset is one of the biggest determining factors of whether or not

you can succeed. And there's even science behind it. It's not me, Janine, just like coming up with this. What kind of science is behind it? Actually, like, so if I talk about the science of happiness, I talk about neuroscience, biology, psychology. And for example, did you know that some of the most popular university courses

for business students are related to positive psychology and like um the science of happiness wow i didn't know that for example like at yale or at the university of berkeley yes it's still like very or more popular in the u.s and that's another thing where i felt like i have to like yeah like grow it here in china i think that's a really powerful message um

Because it makes people rethink how they approach things that they want to do or they want to pursue. Because like I just said, the whole kind of paradigm of success and ultimate happiness is that you have to work and suffer first to get there. So it's like when you're young, you're taught to forget about your own happiness. That's not important. Put that in the back burner for now. Put that to the side for now. Work hard. And do everything you have to do to...

build where you got to build or pursue whatever you want to pursue. Exactly. And work and work and work. And one day, if you work hard enough, long enough, you will be successful. And that success will bring you happiness. Yes. And so we think, okay, happiness isn't important now. That's a later thing. That's when I'm older. Yes. But if we think about it, and like you said, there's actually science to back this up. Yeah. Is that

The happiness almost has to come first to enhance and increase your chances of even succeeding, being able to succeed. And that's really powerful. That's a really powerful kind of way to think, I think. Can I share one really interesting research with you?

So basically people often think it's like happiness is related to a lot of cash, right? Money. And it's really interesting to see that. So 50% of your happiness according to science, well, it comes back from your genes and your upbringing. So if your parents or the people who raised you are not really happy, very negative people, yeah, there's a 50% chance you're gonna become like this too.

But here's the good news. That's only 50%. Then there's 40%. And this is why I do this business, basically. So 40% of your happiness actually comes from activities and relationships. That's the reason why I founded Monday Morning Motivation. And I say like one part of the purpose of that community is even if it's online, mainly all over China, um,

But it's about being surrounded with positive like minded people where we encourage each other, we believe in each other, we share motivational inspirational quotes to also like we have these morning workshops, evening workshops to grow together. These are like the kind of relationships because maybe you've heard of the five person rule.

You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. If you want to be happy, try to spend time with a lot of happy, positive people. You want to be successful, try to spend most of your time with people who are successful in their business or whatever success means for you.

So this is 40% relationships. I need new friends then. I need new friends. Well, I'm glad I can like maybe like give you some inspiration to rethink your circle. But yeah, so it's relationships and activities. And this is why I also have this 30-Day Happiness Booster program as an online program and also on WeChat. Because if you do these small activities, let me give you an example. Keys to happiness are compassion,

gratitude and mindfulness, just to name a few. So if you practice little things like a gratitude activity, for example, could be every morning I write down three things that I'm grateful for today or every evening before you go to bed, you write down three things that you're grateful for. What does it take you? No money,

And what, one or two minutes of time? But it boosts your happiness. And as I said, there's a correlation to your success as well. So yes, 40% of whatever you do in order to boost your happiness are related to your activities and your relationships. And then now, yes, you guessed it, there's 10% left. We spoke about money. So 10% is actually related to income and environment.

Did you hear correctly? I just said 10% is like related to your income. It is not 100% of what people always make me believe or what they think actually happiness means. And of course, happiness has a different meaning for every person. Justin, what does happiness mean for you? That's actually something I've pondered. And I wanted to ask you actually before was like,

I don't really know. The straight answer, the honest answer is I don't know what happiness means for me. And that brings me to ask you, like, do you really feel... I almost feel like you can't define happiness. Because once you stick a definition to happiness, you limit what it can be. And I just feel like happiness...

means like you said means something different for everybody and there's so many different ways and variations of and combinations of things that can equate to happiness for somebody right it's not just there's only one way of happiness for me there's probably there's probably several ways that i can achieve happiness whatever happiness is right so there's not just one road to it there's many paths so i just feel like given that if we believe that

I believe happiness is almost like a state of being, a feeling, but it's not something you can really completely define. You can't box it in like that. But I mean, that's just my own thinking. I don't know how you feel about it. Do you have a definition for happiness? - You're correct. Like there is not this one definition.

Because even if we look into even like different cultures may have different definitions like this, I often ask my my clients and I also teach at universities. So I often ask them like students or adults, what is your definition of happiness? And every single person has a different definition. And hey, that's okay.

So one Moroccan lady, she said, well, maybe the Moroccan definition of happiness would be a family gathering with a lot of good food. I guess this could maybe apply for China as well. But if I ask one Chinese person, another Chinese person, I get a different reply. So you will see that even if you have a different cultural background, happiness can mean something completely different for you. For me, for example, one part of happiness is spending quality time with some really good people.

Or you know what? I mean, come on, sometimes chocolate just makes me happy as well, especially when I'm stressed. So yeah, there's a few things that I would name what makes me happy. But here's the important thing. Happiness is a choice. I had a person, he joined my 30-day happiness booster program on WeChat.

And then after, I think, 10 days, he said, Janine, you know what? I'm not, I've realized, and this is a good realization. I mean, that's the first step. Self-awareness is always the first step. And he said, Janine, I've realized I'm actually not ready to be happy yet.

So, yeah, happiness is a choice. And if you rather want to stick to your role of being the victim of complaining all the time of

I don't know what it is. Like, it's a choice. It's not like a goal you can achieve like in 20 years or so, because you were talking about this, you can achieve that. It's about the here and now. For example, a mindfulness activity would be like, you are looking at me right now. Guys, let me tell you this, like, he's not like looking away. He's like staring at me, but in a nice way. And he's like continuing this eye contact. But yeah, like talking about mindfulness.

It basically means being in the here and now. And Justin actually does something really nice because at least he's pretending to be in the here and now. His full focus is just on me right now, how he looks at me. You think I'm pretending right now? I don't know. Probably not. But I'm just like saying, you know. So mindfulness really means being in the here and now, being focused on that specific moment.

We're not taxing. We're not watching TV in parallel. Like we're focused on this conversation. We're appreciating even this conversation. And we're not like thinking about the future or like being about past happenings. No, we are in the present moment.

And this is already like an activity of how you can like consciously, mindfully practice mindfulness of what can also boost your happiness. And as I said, it's a choice. And right here, right now, we chose to be happy. We chose to be mindful in this conversation. And it's happiness is not a goal that you can achieve. I can dig that. I mean, I think I believe that as well.

Because if you look at fear, the same thing can be said of fear. Fear is a choice, right? I mean, this is a really stupid example, but, you know, there's this movie that like Will Smith did with his son where they like go to a different planet and they have to like kill this alien. But like the kind of premise of that movie is like fear is a choice. Like danger is real. Like there are real dangers out there, right? Yeah.

But to be afraid of them is a choice. - Yeah. - Right? Doesn't mean you don't be careful of the dangers, but to be afraid of something that may or may not happen in the future is completely a choice on you, right? Because if you're here right now, let's say what you were talking about, like in the present, in the moment, that fear is not really, that future danger, whatever you're afraid of may be happening in the future,

doesn't exist in the present moment, right? So like to be afraid of it now is completely a choice on you. And I guess that same kind of logic maybe probably applies to happiness, I guess.

Yeah, a really interesting example just pops up in my mind. So sometimes I have coaching clients or that's something I also experienced on myself where people are afraid of failure. Have you been afraid of failure before? Yeah, of course. I guess most of us, right? Yeah.

But psychologists actually say it is not the fear of you failing. They say it is the fear of you becoming successful. So what happens if The Honest Drink, your podcast, becomes super successful all around the world? What is if, yeah, whatever it is like that, how you will become successful?

And I think this is a very interesting way of looking at it. And at least for me personally, it sometimes helps me to also get this fear out of my mind. Because I mean, I bring in a lot of potential. I try to do my best to believe in myself. And I mean, come on, I'm Janine Jacob. Like there's a pretty big chance that a lot of things that I start with,

that they somehow in some way they become successful. And if I don't, if I fail the first time, I mean, Nelson Mandela also said it in a really nice way. There is like, I can't remember now how he said it correctly, but at the end, like you always like win.

It's something that he said. And I personally think that even if I fail in the first time, I learn something out of it, or I try to learn something out of it.

And then at the end, if I learn something, isn't this a win situation too? Yeah, it's progress, right? Yeah, progress. And I can try it again in a different way or do something completely different. So at the end, whatever you try, just take your courage. Get out of your comfort zone. Jump in the cold water. This is how I grew in the best way. And just try it out. And do it. It's a win situation. Have you heard of the do something principle?

- No, what's the do something principle? - Okay, so we've had this episode we did on this podcast before, right? And the book is called "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck." - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Right, by Mark Manson. And there's this chapter in there called the do something principle. We've had this whole episode on it. We've talked about it multiple times on this show. So like, it's about like doing something. Like if you feel stuck, like just the mere fact of doing something, no matter if it succeeds or fails,

That is progress. Yeah. You have to keep making progress. And as long as you're making progress, you're succeeding. You know what I mean? Because no one, you know, you're not going to get to your ultimate, you know, goal in one step. It's a journey there. But the key important thing is you have to just do something, keep moving. And it doesn't have to be something really big. It can be something small.

And it doesn't have to be like the perfect thing. It's just that as long as you're creating dots and you're connecting those dots along the way,

That is part of the journey. That is part of the progress. That is part of the success. And I feel like especially we Germans, that's something we can learn from Americans, from the Silicon Valley startup culture. This is something my coach from the US, JT Fox, always teaches or coaches as well. Because Germans, we love to over plan and overthink before we actually involve the client and get feedback. Yeah.

Yeah, that is a really good reminder. Let's just do something. Well, there's something you said earlier, just a few minutes ago, that I didn't quite understand though, because we were talking about the fear of failure and you were saying that

Some people say that the fear of failure is not a fear of failure itself, it's a fear of success. - Yeah. - Really though? I don't know if I believe that. - To be honest, I cannot go in depth into this, but this is what I learned from psychologist Dr. Brian Schwartz. He taught me and gave me the certificate as a career advisor.

And he is a psychologist for over 40 years. He's now 78 years old, from the US originally. He has had his company in China for a long time. So that's something he taught. And if he says so, I believe him because he's a very experienced psychologist. But I can't really go into this in depth. But sometimes, as I said, just like telling myself this reminder,

it calms me down and it helps me to proceed because I mean yeah I mean yeah what if I suddenly like I'm about to hire my first real Chinese employee full-time employee and that's a completely different step so I mean

I wouldn't do it if I think I'm not gonna be successful with it. But most of the times our mind just focuses on the negative parts. What if you don't make revenues? What if he's not good enough and not performing? What if blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again, our critical voice is like painting. You think of every possible thing that can go wrong. Yes, exactly. Instead of us just focusing on what is actually the best case scenario. I mean,

i wouldn't hire that specific person that i have in mind now if i think i would fail i think he's going to help me a lot on my next steps to success to growth so going back to what you do as a as a happiness and career coach like how because it seems like everything we've been talking about so far like i kind of i'm sort of getting a picture of like your general mindset and how you think about things and how you approach things

But was this always the case? Were you always like this? Or did you have to mature into this kind of mindset? Is this something you had to learn and had to achieve? How did you get started on this path in the first place? - I guess I'm very lucky to say that through, I mainly grew up with my mom, my mom and me. So I think I can say, and I still have a very good relationship with my dad and the rest of the family.

A lot comes from my upbringing. I always had to fight hard because my mom, she is, as I said, Russian, came to Germany. So we're not really like we come from a lower class, but we had to work a little bit harder to achieve things. But it's the way how she taught me that a lot of things are just possible, no matter of what your background is, what your circumstances are, positive thinking matters.

And to be honest, we even believe in a law of attraction. These kind of things, I feel like the books I read, the kind of way how she taught me how my upbringing is from my family, even if they're not the richest people in the world, it helped me to have a good foundation. So you were brought up with a very positive mindset. Definitely. But then it's also because I continued reading on this and also because

I overcame very tough situations where this kind of positive thinking and a self-belief really helped me to achieve these kind of things. I give you one example. It was my wish already when I was 12 years old. I wanted to do this exchange here. So for half a year or like a year, you would attend a high school anywhere else in the world. I was thinking of either the USA or Spain.

So but I knew that we couldn't afford it. This is like a few thousands of euros that you just pay for the agency to like get you a host family and settle you down and so on. And suddenly out of nowhere, I still like deep inside me had this big wish. Out of nowhere, I always describe it like there was a star falling down and a new path opened. Sometimes

between where you stand and you know your goal or you have your dream you don't know the path yet you don't know the how yet but if you like and this is why i believe if i continue working towards it and if i think positive um it can happen it can work out and suddenly a private person gave me a scholarship i was literally 16 years old

My stepdad had died one and a half years before that. So my mom was alone with our cat. And literally at the end, because I got the scholarship at the end, my mom said, okay, you can go. I don't want to hold you. You can go. And through the waiting list, it was like nearly like too late to even like still do it in that specific year. And I got the scholarship and then through the waiting list, through being like person number three,

I literally moved to the US for six months to live with a local family, attend a local high school, and I did not even go to like a village. No, guys, I was 16 and I lived in freaking Las Vegas. Yeah.

Yeah, in Las Vegas. So this was on that exchange program? Yes, but I never would have thought it's going to become true. But this was one of these things. Yeah, it matured me, as you said, to believe even more that positive mindset and good work can bring you to really achieve these things. And also the law of attraction, because I had always pictured that.

I had pictured to be a cheerleader. I had pictured to live in the US and all these kind of things. And God, this sounded so crazy. A person like me with not a rich background and not having the right connections suddenly like gets a scholarship and lives in the US for six months, although I was only 16 years old.

And this is since then where I really believe all these kind of things and practice these beliefs that I have and having a positive mindset even more. Because I really believe otherwise I would not have come that far of where I am standing now. So like if you had not actually gotten that scholarship, if that had never happened, if that...

you might not be where you are now, right? Is that what you're saying? Like that kind of had a really pivotal role in shaping your mindset? - It definitely had a pivotal role to probably strengthen that all these most impossible things or things that seem impossible can actually become reality.

And that's why my company is also called Full Potential Partners. So we find different ways with my clients. First of all, I unlock your potential. That's my slogan. Because a lot of your potential is hidden inside you. But then the second way is, as I said...

impossible things can become possible and realistic. And this is something where at least like this one situation really like gave me this like reality belief that yes, I'm right and what I believe in. And also, for example, we look at the law of attraction. We look at a lot of we can look at a lot of successful people, actors, business people. And you mentioned Will Smith earlier.

Will Smith or like Jim Carrey, the comedian, they're very big examples. Or Oprah Winfrey. I don't know if you know their stories, but they're practitioners of the law of attraction and they have achieved so much also because of like believing in these things, practicing these kind of things.

Well, there's a very popular book several years ago, right? The Secret? Yeah, exactly. So is that what it is? Is that what it's... It was basically a book about the law of attraction? It's one of the many books. I guess it's one of the most popular books. And I also read it at a later stage and watched a movie. And I feel like in my personal life,

It benefited me. I'm not saying that this is right or wrong. I don't want you to... I'm not forcing you... My belief...

that it is like this but for me it worked out so why shouldn't I continue it or sometimes I just tell people about it and at the end it's about you do you want to try it out do you want to read the book do you want to watch a movie or not it's up to you but at least I can give you the inspiration I can like tell you what has worked for me and at the end it's up to you

Talking about trying different things, you seem like a person who's very willing to go out of their comfort zone. Oh, for sure. Right? I mean, I think you prove that over and over again just with your experience and moving out here and a lot of things you do. And you kind of just go after everything. Right? Yeah.

So how important is that in terms of what you say for people to really try to push out of their comfort zone? And as hard as it is for some people, what advice would you give for people to help them do that?

Okay, let me start with the advice. Oh gosh, did you listen to my voice? I feel like I'm getting an even more whiskey voice. Are you? Your voice is great. Okay, yeah, it's pretty funny. So I guess it's a good thing that actually I have a cold now because now I have more of this whiskey voice. I get a lot of compliments by people normally. Very seductive. Oh, wow. Yeah, some people even call it porn voice. Okay, let's get back to your question.

There's one thing that my coach JT Fox from the US always says, and this is something I really believe in. And if I feel nervous, I know I'm an extroverted person, but come on guys, I'm just a human. Sometimes I also don't feel self-confident. I feel nervous too. And then I tell myself, as my coach JT Fox says, there's one person, one deal and one opportunity that can change your business or life completely.

can you repeat that one more time there's one there's one person there's one person one deal or one opportunity that can change your business or your life completely okay for example let's say you're at a networking event i often teach workshops about how to successfully socialize and network and god even i'm sometimes like nervous as i said that if you think about this one statement from my coach

And if I tell myself this, isn't it like if you now look in this room of like, let's say a group of 100 people being here for the business networking event, there may be one person that will be like my biggest client ever. Or maybe I'll be financially free afterwards. Or maybe this will be my future husband.

Damn, isn't this motivation and like enough for me to like jump over the wall to like get like to jump in the cold water and get out of the comfort zone and just like try to talk to as many people as possible and to get to know them. Because this one person in this room may change my whole life.

And with my coach J.T. Fox, it was definitely like this when I attended his first session. And talking about getting out of the comfort zone. God, it was never my goal to like found my own company in China, right?

I like took myself out of the comfort zone to do my like second master's degree in China at a French business school in Suzhou. Although I could have studied at Fudan and Tongji, but they would not have given me the second master's degree. And at that time, I was already working for HP Germany. But guys...

Guys, it was just like rational and also my gut feeling said, I gotta go to China. I was so afraid of going to China. I mean like Chinese and German culture is just so different. Or even like Chinese culture compared to Finnish, American, French culture. - Or just European culture in general. - Exactly, but it was just the right thing to do. No matter of how nervous I was.

And let me tell you this The first night when I slept in this hotel in Shanghai Next to the airport Before going to Suzhou My grandma, my beloved grandma Died in Germany

A week, like when I arrived in Suzhou, I had not only a Chinese culture shock, no, it got even worse. I even had a French culture shock because I thought it's an international business school, but bam, suddenly I was surrounded by thousands, not thousands, I'm exaggerating, but by so many French people. They all knew each other, but I didn't know anyone. So all these kind of things got me out of the comfort zone, but they made me grow.

And yes, I was crying a lot in the first days and weeks in China. It was tough until you get adjusted to the new life, you build up your new life, new friends, you get adjusted to the new environment. But it was so worth it. I mean, step by step, I found my purpose in life within these eight months. I even decided, well, if I want to get to know the Chinese culture even better,

I guess I should probably move in with a Chinese family because in France and in the US I live with local families and it was a game changer. Well, I don't know. How so? How was it a game changer? Like I would not have experienced Chinese culture or like the local culture in an authentic way. If I had just been a student living in a student dormitory being surrounded by mainly foreigners and

Just having foreign friends, studying at a business school in China that has mainly foreigners in my major. So yeah, I experienced things that the other life would not have brought up to me. Was it easy? Did we have misunderstandings?

Of course it was not easy and yes, we had misunderstandings. But again, it was worth it. It made me grow. It made me become the person of who I am. All of these kind of things. And most important is I really believe and I tell people, rather push me out of my comfort zone, throw me in a cold water. Because this is how I grow. If I look back at all of these happenings back in my life and different parts of my life,

I mean, if I stayed in Germany, if I also didn't break up with my boyfriend at that time, or if I had studied in France only, I would live a completely different life. And I think no matter how hard and challenging my current life is as an entrepreneur and a foreigner in China sometimes, even if Shanghai is not the real China, but I'm happy. I can be my authentic me again.

Compared to former times in like the conservative Stuttgart area back in Germany. And I can just be me and I'm happy. Yeah, I guess if you think about like comfort zones...

And you approach moving, like, you know, every opportunity that's like, that might be breaking out of your comfort zone as a potential life changing event or opportunity. Then like, if you knew, like, let's say you were going to do something that you weren't comfortable doing, it wasn't part of your comfort zone. But you knew that by doing that, it could change your life for the better. Right? Permanently. Yes.

Like you would claw and scratch, like you said, you would do anything to jump at that opportunity, right? But I think most people just don't believe that. Most people just feel like, oh, like,

it's probably not gonna amount to anything and I'm gonna have to be really uncomfortable. And they get into their own heads about like, oh, is it worth it? Is it not worth it? And ultimately they just end up staying in their bubble, staying in their comfort zone just because they're just more comfortable there and they think it's safer and they just think, you know, it's not worth taking the chance, right? - Let me talk about a different topic now, now that you inspired me just. So we spoke a lot about business

But I sometimes even like have to remind myself in private life, just do it or just go for it. So let's talk about dating. Well, you know, I'm not married. I stayed in China to start my second life phase because I found my purpose in life and I built up this business. It's not because of a man. I wish it would have been of a man. But...

So even sometimes when I go out, I meet men or sometimes if I like someone a lot, I basically tell myself, okay, look, I know the traditional way actually tells us the man has to do the first step.

And the man you like you have all these like your huge list of expectations to a man. Yeah. And I told you I'm a salsa dancer. So I dance salsa in France, in Finland when I lived there in the US, in China. It even helped me to build up new friends and relationships. So sometimes I go dancing because I want to have fun.

And for salsa dancing, I don't always want to wait till a man makes the first step. And in salsa dancing, it's nice because you do it because you all have the same hobby and you enjoy dancing. So you don't like if I do the first step and ask a man, hey, would you like to dance with me or let's dance?

And sometimes I'm nervous too. But and it took me some time to have the courage to ask more and more men and to do the first step instead of just waiting for a man to do it because I go to this party because I want to dance. I want to get back into this work life balance. I want to do something good for me.

So I don't want to be dependent on the man asking me if there's a lot of other women or if I'm new to this party and if guys haven't seen me yet and they're too shy to ask me or because of cultural differences.

Should I wait for the man forever that at the end only one or two men dance with me? Instead of me having 10 dances or dancing with 10 different men, which is normal in salsa dancing. No, I literally decided no. I like encourage myself and create your own opportunities. Yes. And I sometimes tell myself, what do you want, Janine? So I know exactly what I want.

Do I want to wait for it? Like I'm not a patient person. But you know, sometimes you would never get it if you don't take initiative. I even tell my students at university who I teach, sure, you can get an internship by applying for the normal open positions.

But I'd rather want you to create the opportunity to go out to networking events, meet these people, get in contact with them and through a different path, through vitamin B maybe, get your next job or your internship.

It's the same with meeting men. If I really would like to go on a date or have dinner or drink or dance with a person or just tell this person of something that, like a compliment for example, or by telling the person something I have on my mind, I rather tell it out loud, even if it takes me courage. And you know, for dating, I sometimes feel like, I know sometimes we don't want to talk about specific topics at an early stage or you feel like you gotta wait for months

But I'd rather know where I stand from an early stage instead of wasting my time. Or if I have a different goal or if this person, like if I want to have a serious relationship but the person just wants to have fun. Shouldn't we like at an early stage explore it? I'm not talking about date one or two. Don't get me wrong. But I'd rather like encourage myself and tell myself, Jean, what do you want? And I take my courage and

And I try most of the times to follow it. Because I don't want to waste my time. You don't want to waste my time if you date me. So I rather break up at an early stage.

Because our purposes and our goals go in different directions than wasting each other's time. Yeah, just to lay everything out on the table, right? Just so we know, like you said, we're not wasting each other's time. But I think a lot of young people do that these days. In China, I feel like a lot of the girls... I mean, I wouldn't know. I've been out of the dating scene for a while. But I feel a lot of the girls here are more kind of direct that way.

They're more like, okay, you know, what do you want? Like, do you want kids? Do you want to get married? You know, is that something you want to do in the short term? I feel like they're very blunt in asking that these days. So I feel like that's not that different. Or maybe it's something, were you almost like that? Or maybe that's something you picked up here? Actually, you know, last year I had a relationship with a guy. He's a very good friend of mine now. I'm very happy about this.

It just didn't work out between us, like when it comes to relationship because of different love languages, different needs, goals, different ways of how we are. But it's okay. But through the stage when we then transformed into the friendship, it still took quite a little bit of work, a lot of disappointments from both sides, a lot of emotions. It was not easy. What kind of disappointments? From each other, you know?

And I just didn't want to, we both just didn't want to like break up. I probably was just like me kind of like who tried to keep the contact, try to stay good to each other. But yeah, as I said, now we're friends and it took a lot of work to get to this level. But because in that stage, because also how the communication had changed and

And I was working like, what do you want is a new coaching program. I'm actually going to launch very soon. It has several stages. And it was inspired by him of the failing relationship with him. And he's actually the first man, meaningful man I met when I came to Shanghai, which is nearly three years ago.

So you can see we have a lot of history in a different kind of way. But yeah, like through this inspiration, through him and another friend related to what do you want?

I created this coaching program. I even did some centrifugal research with my intern at that time. So talking about an earlier topic, I had to open up a little bit with my intern because she helped me on research. So and I wanted her to understand the full purpose of all of this, where I'm coming from, what I want to achieve with this program. And when we did the scientific research, I then interviewed my ex-boyfriend as well and also other couples.

And this helped me a lot, firstly, to understand him better as a person. And also took me a bit of courage to talk about all these kind of... To just ask these questions, although we were not a couple anymore and more like friends. And he was nice to support me on my business because I needed to interview these people to get this knowledge. So I actually forgot what the question was. No, it's just about like, you know, I think...

It's like making, like you said, you were making the first moves, right? You were creating your own opportunities. And I feel like- Yes, and it was hard sometimes. I feel like that's a trend we're seeing though, more and more with women. Women are taking more initiative. Men are kind of like, kind of taking the more of the back seat now.

But some women don't like that. Some women want men to be like the initiator. Oh, I wish every man would be poshy and just like do the first steps. But I've decided at one point, because I'm an impatient person, I don't want to wait for my luck or my happiness to happen. I'd rather take initiative and take care of myself. And at least like try it out by asking the right questions and by just, worst case, taking initiative by myself. Well, I think...

So do you have like a lower fear of rejection? Right? Because I feel like a lot of guys don't make the first move like or shyer guys don't make the first move because they they don't want to be rejected. Right? And that goes back to the fear of failure. Of course, we know one of us wants to be rejected. We're all afraid of that. And sure, if I get rejected, I'm

Or do you just not get rejected very often? Oh, I wish. I wish. I mean, like, otherwise I would be in a very happy relationship, for example, with this guy now, right? But no, I just feel like every time we do it, we grow. Again, it's a win situation. You also get to know yourself better of what it is that you actually want in your life. Well, that's what I was going to say. Like, there's a level of self-awareness I feel you have.

that you act on and that you know how to use or how to use it to motivate yourself or make yourself do things, right? And I feel like, I don't know, but I feel like self-awareness is a crucial, crucial skill, especially these days, that maybe a lot of people are lacking, right? It is

It seems like a simple thing, but true self-awareness, I think most of us don't spend enough time thinking about ourselves and what do we really want, right? What do we really want? No one asks you the question. Yeah, not what other people want for you or not what society is expecting of you, but what do you really want that's not attached to you?

you know, societal norms and expectations and ideas of success, right? And I think the idea of self-awareness is really being able to detach yourself from these things that we're grown up to believe in. And these standards, these expectations, these goals that are just kind of hammered into us

growing up that we constantly try to achieve and we end up thinking that's what we want. But is that what we really want? I don't think enough of us really ask ourselves that question because it's hard. And I don't even know how to answer that, even for myself. One of the toughest things for me that brings me the most anxiety is that I actually don't really know what I want. And it eats at me.

Exactly. And it's not you. Imagine that most people, no matter what age they are, they feel exactly the same way. They have the same thoughts. So if someone doesn't really know what they want, how can they start taking that journey? Because they don't know what the end goal is. Yeah, basically, it's all about asking yourself the right questions and then finding answers. And this is where we coaches come in.

Because no one in university asks us these kind of questions. And also our parents tell us what to do. And this is why we have live career coaches and so on. We have specific online programs that we help you to find out more about yourself. We got trained to ask the right questions. Because, you know, here's the good news. At the end, you, Justin, and anyone else who's listening, you have all the answers.

inside you. But you know, sometimes because we're too rational or whatever kind of situation it is or reason, we overhear it or because we don't have the courage to pursue it. But we basically have all the answers inside us. So a coach like me, what we do is in our sessions, we use the right tools, templates, and then the question techniques to really like get those answers out of you. We help you to get the answers out there.

But you have it inside of you. And this is why I think coaching is so crucial. Like I know the concept of coaching is not known yet. People always think, oh, you're a coach. So it means you're a lausche, you're a teacher. I said, no, I'm not a teacher. The concept of a coach, trainer, mentor, teacher, therapist is different.

So a coach is really there to empower you to achieve of what you want to achieve, but also to help you get these answers outside of you. And this is why I really want to grow the coaching discipline within all over China, because you can benefit so much in your business and in your personal life. And self-awareness is the first step on your path to a happy and successful life. Because if you don't know what you want,

If you don't have dreams, a vision or set goals, how can you even achieve it? How can you actually be happy?

And then like the next steps would be like self-esteem and boosting your happiness and your, yeah, which can also help you to be more successful, as said earlier. Yeah, it seems like the most difficult part. And like you said, it's like the first step on that path to happiness. Exactly. Is knowing what you want or at least being able to articulate what you want, right? I think maybe that's where a lot of people get stuck. They might have some sort of,

And like some sort of blurry vision or feeling of maybe what they want, but they don't know how to articulate it. They've never put pen to paper and actually wrote it down into a specific goal. And then the most important is what we should not forget about. It's action. So even if people know what they actually want, they don't pursue it.

So most important is, as you said before, just do it. Take action. And even small things, a small thing every day, small action of like boosting your happiness by doing a small activity every day or whatever it is, articulating it is already part of action and then pursuing it.

Small things every day can make a huge difference in your life. Do you think it's completely necessary and crucial for someone to know exactly what they want before taking action? Or if they're having a hard time articulating what they want or even thinking about what they want, would you advise them to just start taking action anyway? Just do something? Well, when I... Let me share one example.

I kind of had this idea, although I had already worked for HP and I started my master's degree. I had this idea, maybe one day I might want to build up my own company.

But I didn't know what kind of area. So because I didn't know what I wanted or what kind of company, I just tried it out. And it's like that funnel. You start big, you try different things, and then you get smaller, smaller, smaller, till you find the right thing, which this is where I am right now. So this was actually, if I go back, this is about a two-year cycle.

So yeah, if you don't know what you want, try out different things because these things will teach you, oh, that's something I like. Oh, that's something I don't like. And even like, for example, for internships for students, when they get work experience and they do internships, they may not like the big company type or the small type of company or that company culture or that specific task or department. But even if they don't like it, it teaches them something different.

of what they don't like. And they're one step closer to understand and have this awareness of what is it that they actually like? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, yeah, it's that process of elimination even at the very least, right? By just doing something, you can start eliminating things, just doing things. And I guess just, just do it. I mean, I don't know what else, how else better to say it, right? Anyway, thank you, Janine.

this was a very interesting conversation thank you for being here thank you so much for inviting me i'm super excited not only because the whiskey is super amazing and i'm afraid i feel a little bit tipsy right now and i still have to give it to our workshop don't tell the people please no problem your secrets stay with me thank you so much for inviting me justin thank you let's do this again sometime yes cheers and guys most important is as we said today take action and don't be afraid

All the best for you. Beautiful. Thanks, Janine. I'm Justin. That's it, guys. That's it for today. We'll see you guys next time. Love you. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.