Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
So let me give you the short version. So when we first started this a few years ago, I won't go into the reasons, but we were really nervous because we didn't know what we should be talking about. We just had no formula, et cetera. Right.
And we realized that the three of us can kind of talk about anything. And so, I mean, it took probably like a hundred episodes to get to that point. And it's amazing that when you think back again, it's like, God, you really stuck through it. Then we got guests on and then guests would introduce other guests or whatever and slowly became more and more comfortable. And then one thing that happened was that we just have friends that might be in town like yourself. And so I know like if you go on into someone else's space, especially if you're introverted and you're meeting new people, like,
and you're out of your comfort zone, it feels that way. But then we just had friends come on and then we usually just put them at ease. And then, you know, within like 10 minutes, they don't even know they're on a show. Yeah. That's good. Cheers. Cheers. That's the short version. We've told the story many different ways. That's just to make you feel better about being here. It's always a mind fuck on this show. We have two friends of the show today. Amy, John, welcome.
- Those are two different people, by the way. It's not Amy with the last name John. Amy and John. - Amy and John. - How you been? You gotta talk in the mic. - Oh my God. - Why are you freezing up now, Amy? You were so talkative the whole ride over here. - You know the funny thing, and I literally just met Amy about 10 minutes ago, and I was getting really good vibes. John and I know a little bit. And within 10 minutes,
I'd already gotten this impression that you were larger than life, really charismatic, and you were already talking, and you were like the life of the room. Without even knowing us. Yeah, and then these guys started fucking with you and be like, yeah, we have like 10 million subscribers and all this stuff, and then you started freezing up, and now she's like got her hands... Look at the body language. She was literally like, bring it on. She had the tequila. She's like, I'm gonna be the bartender. Before the mics were on, she was all confident. It's so interesting that people can...
Just shut down like that. No, I'm kidding. You're not making it better, Eric. No, I can't now because she's like, it's like a cat and there's like a mouse and you're just like. Okay, just start with this. Just say hi into the microphone. Hello, friends. Okay, there we go. My name is Amy. Hello. There we go. You have an accent all of a sudden. It's like, hello. Hello. Stop, stop, stop. My name is Amy. Hello. Okay. But.
Amy, it's really good to meet you. And any friend of Justin's is a friend of mine, although Justin isn't really a friend of mine, but any friend of his is a friend of mine. We're kind of just acquaintances forced because of this podcast to be together in the same room. Because our fans will not let us break up. No. Okay. So just a little bit of background since Amy needs a moment to gather, collect herself here. Yeah.
I've known Amy longer than I've... She's taking shots now. Don't drink that much. I would like to take a shot with you. Everyone takes a shot with me. I was not even planning on drinking, but just for you. Can you get the Seattle cup, Denise? Yes.
yeah now this is john like these guys like they just made amy get up and grab cups for the guests i mean i know justin eric and howie for a long time but like come on guys come on that's true that's true but i think amy wanted uh wanted a distraction for herself yes yeah she's
This is the most nervous I've ever seen you, Amy. Dude, put him on a screen. I've known Amy longer than I've known anyone sitting in this room. And this is shocking to me because this is the first time I've seen you speechless. Okay, hold on. Well, let's just... 10 million people, you know? I feel like I gotta join in. Oh, geez. Amy, you don't know how big this is. That he's drinking? He only has 17 more shots till kidney failure. No, are you legit?
I'll try to survive. I'm going to jump the gun a little bit because we want to get your background. So you've known Justin for, what, 20 years? Yes, I've known him. We're talking to Mike, though. 20 years. Met him in 2001. And back then, did you bust each other's balls or whatever? I would say so, yeah. So this is like normal. Yes. We would always mess with each other. Yeah. And he still has the same lame jokes as he does today. Yeah. He hasn't changed much. So what we want to get out of this...
Oh my god. This is like going back to the old days of Honest Drink. We've reformed. Because the show is a lot about self-improvement, so slowly we've cut down on alcohol consumption. Sorry. What is the Metaxca? That's some Greek liquor. I don't know. Should we do the shot? We've got all kinds of Justin's dirty secrets. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers to good health.
I'm sorry I'm bad at this. This is two weeks in a row. Last week, we had some friends come and
new friends, you know? And then I just said, okay, fuck it. You thought it might've been some trap. Yeah. Like people were laying catfishing or something. I don't know. And once you met them, it was like, Oh, they're just, Oh, they were there. Was that why your hand was covering your kidney when you walked in? Yeah. Yeah. There's like, I mean, they wouldn't want yours. So,
I didn't mean it that way. Yes, you did. Own it. How else would you mean that? No, I mean, no, I don't know. It just came out. I don't know. I'm full of compassion and love. Sure. We had a nice chat before the show. Yet you just assume the worst of people.
Hence, you were so afraid to meet these random people. You just assumed the worst in people. I think I'm Jekyll and Hyde. You know me. Yes, you are. Right? I can be sweet and supportive, and then all of a sudden, the knives come out.
Is that sake? I've seen the knives part that really freaked me out. So when I walked in, I saw your face. Wait, wait, yeah, yeah. John, speak up. John, speak up. Wait, wait, when? Okay, so I mean, obviously I've known Eric and Howie for a while. So one time it was a Thanksgiving party at Justin's house. And we're playing...
We were playing Avalon. And in the middle of the game, he jumps up with... He comes out with a butcher knife. I did? And he's like, I told you guys to kill him. I'm innocent. I'm a blah, blah, blah. Like, why don't you listen to me? And he was just going crazy. Because you were blinded by anger. He was so angry. He was like...
I remember the Hulk. The Hulk came out. The Hulk came out. You guys thought that I was bad and I wasn't and I was very indignant. Yeah, so people who don't know, Avalon is like mafia. It's like this game where, you know, there's one like bad guy. Deception. Yeah, you're trying to deceive people. And so you're trying to figure out who the bad guy is. And,
And, and for some reason we all thought Eric was the bad guy and we like voted him out. And then, and then he got so angry because he wasn't, and he was innocent. He was just raging, like,
And honestly, for guys like me that didn't know him personally, we were kind of freaked out. We're like, our lives are in danger. Like, I met this guy like two times maybe. So you were actually scared for your life? Yeah. Not necessarily scared, but more like pissed. I'm like, why is this guy even here? Oh.
Because he kind of ruined the game for everybody. He ruined the vibe. He's known to do that sometimes. But you're probably wondering, meanwhile, Justin and Howie are so relaxed. We're used to it. He's like, what's wrong with these guys?
You have a psycho maniac in this. He's ruining everything. And meanwhile, these two guys are just like, it's nothing's happened. That's how desensitized we are. Totally desensitized. Yeah, Talia and Justin were desensitized. But like Justin's wife, she was about to kick him out.
Yeah. Yeah, so it was pretty intense. Yeah, and then you got mad, and then Anne got mad, and then that was like the see you never moment. Was that the same see you never moment? I think that was see you never. That was see you never. I think it was probably close to that. No, no, no, it was a see you never night. That was a see you never night. What does see you never mean? Because I threw some shit at him, and I thought it was like witty, and then he came back, and he was like, well, see you never. And then I was like, well, see you, and I was like...
And then I just infuriated me even more. It infuriated you so much that you actually came back and ended up leaving because you had to get the last word. Exactly. And you ended up staying. It was kind of like I was doing the slow walk like, no, there's no way they're going to make me. It was like, see, you never...
When you said that, were you really pissed off? Yes. Yes. And it's such like, thinking back on it now, it's such a corny thing to say, see you never. That's why it's so funny you would say that when you're so angry. It's so funny. But when you're that angry, you don't have anything clever to say. So the first thing that popped up was like...
See you never. No, no, no. But the thing is, it was so fucking... It was like perfect. And when you said it, I was like... Is it hard? Yeah, because I was like, damn, he's smart. Because I was so drunk. I was like, God...
But the thing is, from my perspective, because obviously from my perspective, I know you guys for so long. First of all, yes, we've seen Eric perform these kind of things before. Perform these kind of things? What a euphemism. Yeah. But from my perspective, because I saw Justin's face when he said it, right? And it was one of those things where he literally looks at Eric. It was like, Eric's over there, right? He looks at Eric. He's like...
See you never. And he just like turns back forward and doesn't even look at him. And it's almost like this dismissiveness. Well, yes, but also in his mind, I felt like it was a battle because on one side, he was like, did I just say that? Right? But other sides, like, I'm so pissed at him. Right? Because you know that Justin felt he was clever, but then he was like, was it clever though? Wow. Here.
This is the beginning of the night. We're all on our best behavior. That's how civilized it was to start with. Everyone was very civilized, yes. Very proper, y'all. And then it turns out to be Mayhem. This is over a game. Over a game. You guys got this. I would blame it on the game. No, no, no. It's not you guys. It's him. Okay, him. We were reacting to his anger because he was getting totally out of like, you know, out of like...
Disproportionately angry for the American. But to be fair, like, some of the girls were actually scared because not everybody knows Eric, like, very well, right? Now all my friends are going to be listening and be like, I'm some kind of fucking psycho. Well, when you look as an outsider, yeah. Yeah.
I don't know. Our memories are all fallible, John. And John's kind of a wall card here. I'll take it back. I love it. John calling out Eric. John coming in hot. And anyone who watches the video, like, John looks way more credible than me. He's so handsome and clean cut. Like, his hair is perfect, right? And you've always dressed nice. So if he says it, it's like...
He could say anything. I feel like you're just trying to make it up to me now. No, no, but I mean, as a long time listener of the show, like, you know, and after that scenario, like Justin explained to me, I mean, he's not, he wasn't actually going to threaten anybody. It was,
It was just more of a show. That's just how he was. So I took it as it was. And you could hear through the years of this podcast, you know, he's obviously grown a lot. A lot more mature, I would say. And I respect him. Like, I think he's a great guy. You know, a lot of big vocabs.
That's how I distinguish you guys on the show is based on the vocabs. The guy who uses the SAT words, that's Eric. So much respect. I wish I had his range of words, so I give him props for that. So that was 2017. Thank you for the kind words. And then in 2018, because I happen to have some photos up, this was sort of...
A year later, after all that grossing development. Why do you have to throw me under the bus like this? What are those? Chicken nuggets? Yeah, those burgers. The answer is yes. What is that yes? It's everything on the menu. Yes. Everything on the McDonald's menu. Holy shit. Are you preparing to do mukbang video? What's happening there? Oh my God. It's just me drunk eating everything on the McDonald's menu. That's hilarious. That is too good. As one does.
Can't hate? Not like that. What kind of crazy do you go? You know, I'll get like a 50 piece, but not like... Oh, a 50 piece nugget? Yeah. They have 50 piece nuggets? Oh yeah, they do. In America. McDonald's. You know what the biggest size they have in China is five. You guys don't have 50 piece? McDonald's. No, no. So wait, are you just ordering enough orders of 20? No, it's in one bucket. It's called a 50 piece chicken nugget.
So that's an item you can order. It's an item. When did that happen? I don't know if it's all the time, but for sure you can get it sometime because they have it in a bucket. But that's in America. I'm not surprised because America, they want all their junk. But when we moved away, they didn't have 50 pieces. 20 was the most I'd ever heard of. Is this a recent development? I feel like it was there. You left in what year? 2008.
I ate. This is California? Yeah, around 2008. Yes, I got it in California. See, this is the thing, right? We've seen like a $100 bill, right? The Benjamin Franklin. But there is a $1,000 bill, but we don't know. So the 50-piece chicken nugget, maybe some people have it. I doubt that everyone has it. Do you have to list it like a secret thing you say? Or is it literally on the menu? It's literally not that special. It's not the $1,000 bill metaphor. Not even close, dude. You can find it in many states for sure. It was like a special. She's coming out of her cage now. A national cave.
No, because like, it's weird because I feel like the quantities of people, the quantities they would eat here, no one would ever order a 50 piece nugget. Well, they only have five. Yeah. Unless it was for like a whole. It's so annoying. The top is five here. Damn. Fucked up, right? No, no. Ten. I think ten now. No, five. Oh, is it still five? That's why you're all skinny here. I don't know if these two are that skinny. Not me. Let's pivot a little bit. Amy.
Um, you just arrived in Shanghai. How many days ago now? I came here on Monday. On Monday. Today's Saturday. Today's Saturday. So you've been here a week. Yes. What's your first impression of Shanghai? Wait, hold on. Have you ever been here before? Yes, I have. I started, my parents been here since 2008. So I've been coming back and forth. I haven't been here for the last eight years though. So it's been a long span. It's a lot cleaner. People are a lot more polite. Yeah.
It's very safe here. It's gentrified a lot from what area I grew up in. Because wherever I'm at, there's all these streetcars or whatever. Now it's like very mall-like, very fancified or whatever. Like more developed, more commercial. Gentrified is what I call it. They moved all these people out. They made it try to look nice and fancy. When was the first time you were in Shanghai? I want to say the very first time I ever visited. I was young, young. I was like 10 or something. Okay, so your impression...
was, you know, from a point of time where Shanghai was quite a bit different. That's like, that's a reference. I remember a decade where I could go to that same street cart food. I could get that, the dan with whatever, song you'll be in jail. Dan, the jembing. Yeah. On the street. And now they, they moved out of the way and I'm sad about it.
I kind of like that street food style. See, that's so interesting because we don't see these changes, right? But if there was like a food truck or whatever... There was a lot more street food back then. Back in the day, I used to live off of that, right? After drinking, you go to the corner in the compound, you get some barbecue, and there's all these people sitting around. The chun, yeah. It was delicious. It was delicious. Dirty street food was the most delicious, yeah. So I always avoided that. The only thing I ate was the chun. And I...
didn't ever do any of really that street cart stuff. But I remember like way back in the day and I had this, there's this friend of a friend, he came out, we hung out with Timmy. He was, his name is from Arkansas. And you know, he, so he, he did all the, he was just very young guy. Right. Even though he's sort of like an Arkansas born and raised all that stuff. Right. No Asian, you know, he was Caucasian and then he ate all that stuff and he was just, you know, he didn't know any better. Right. I wouldn't have eaten it. I mean, I was like a local, you know, in that sense. Um,
And man, he was fucked the entire time he was here. I mean, he was a trooper, though. He would go out and he would do stuff. We'd hang out all the time. He never called in sick or anything. But he literally had a fucking bad stomach for the whole month he was here. He went back, like, freaking gastro this, had to get on serious antibiotics. But he just sucked it up for a whole month. And he just kept going to the street food. I felt bad for him.
Yeah. Well, it's crazy because there are some people who go to, it doesn't even have to be China, who just travel to different countries and they just can't handle the food of that country. Like that's so common. But they're adventurous at the same time. And that's the combination. It's a bit crazy. But I've come across so many people who just go travel to a new country and for some reason their body is just rejecting that food. And that's like so foreign to me because I've never...
had that experience. Like anywhere I go, I'm like, okay with the food there. I have another hypothesis though. The other piece is that perhaps due to all the travel and the late nights and the lack of sleep, your immune system is also compromised too. True. Maybe also the alcohol. Yeah, and the alcohol and it's compromised as well.
But it also could be that stall. I mean, we used to always share the best stalls to go to. You don't just go to any stall. That's true. Because there are stalls. I just went to any stall. Like barbecue pits that are known to be good quality and you stay away and you don't go to that one. Oh, really? How did you know? How did you know the difference? Local people, man. Okay. Yeah. And it's all about like the mantou and the lamb skewers.
So I want to bring it back to Amy. Could you see yourself moving him? Hold on. Let me pause for a moment. Let's throw the spotlight back on him. So, you know, how's his podcasting skills? Like, because he...
Has become... How would she know? She doesn't listen to the podcast. I know from this. She didn't even know I had a podcast until I told her today. But now there's a fairly large global fan base. He's developed some chops, right? What do you think? The way he asked... Does it make you want to open up? Not really, right? I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. That's far. We've been here like 20 minutes, right? I don't even know. You're very good at speaking and...
Yes, facilitating is the right word. You might think I was the lead host, but I'm actually not. He was actually fishing for that comment. That's the whole reason why he asked this in the first place. Is he wanted to see like, hey, like...
No, I'm impressed. Well, he was, I've known him since always. He's always well-spoken, always charismatic. People like to listen to him. So I know him like this. Yeah. I'm like that. Yeah. No, because when we knew each other back in the day, podcasting didn't even exist. Right. He's just like, people like him. I feel like people want to listen to what he has to say. Did you go to his band and their shows? Oh, um...
DDL Roundhouse. Oh, yeah. What's the songs? I know the songs. Ain't got no money, honey. But still want to be king. Oh, yeah. I went to his shows. Yeah, he was good. Impressively good. Okay, nice. Anyway, I'm more impressed with you. So if that's what you're fishing for, you got it. You got it. I'll take it. Let's go back to his original.
Amy. You're the glue that holds everybody together. You heard that, right? Let's call him Elmer. You should say thank you. Okay, Amy. You coming back from America. Howie would love this. What? She did van life on...
two years on the road by herself. - Oh no, that's so amazing. Oh no, meaning like, I love it. - Oh no. - No, meaning I love it. - Yes, I did, yes. - So we have a real life van life person for two years on the road by herself. - Oh, that's so cool. - Van life. I'm a hippie, y'all. I'm a certified hippie. I wanna live off the grid. - So what was that like? - Wow. - Oh my God, I wanna talk about that. - Yeah, what was that like? - Oh yeah, so I went crazy on work, hustle bustle working fucking 100 hours trying to make my mortgage and buy nice things and whatever.
my familial patterns of my parents uphold that image. We all do that. As Asians. One day I realized it's all bullshit, you know? I'm working way too hard for nothing. It doesn't even make sense. This is improving my quality of life. I'm not happy. And then one day I just went crazy at work. I quit. Oh shit. Can you paint a picture? No, tell the story. Can you paint a picture? I picked up the staple and I was like, I'll kill y'all. I threw it and I quit.
I quit and I left. So you pulled an Eric? What? I pulled an Eric. Where were you? Inside my pharmacy job. So you were a pharmacist. I'm at Walgreens Pharmacy. Everyone knows Walgreens. Outpatient pharmacy. You know, those people at the window and stuff. And then I don't know what event triggered it, but it's already been building for a long time, right? Yeah.
But you're not clear about what event triggered it? No, not one clear bit. It's already been building up for a long time. And like corporate was loading on me all these extra work for no extra pay. And I'm a people pleaser. I was a yes man. I said yes to everything. I took on all this extra work for no extra pay. And then one day I just realized after that trip, I went to Costa Rica. I told you. And people had nothing.
Like, no food, no housing, and their joy and quality of life is much higher than mine. And I was like, yo, something's wrong with my way of living or something type of perspective or something. So when I went back, I was like, F y'all, I quit. So you just snapped one day. So who was there? Who was around? All my work, all my staff. They know me, though. And they understood. They didn't even think twice about it when I did that. They're like, oh, what?
Oh. To the same thing. So were you intense with them? I was very intense. Not with them. I was intense with corporate, with the system. How about the system was bad. Healthcare system's terrible. And I just was raging against the system. So yeah, after that, I did like F it. I rented out my house. And then I was like, I'm just going to live simply. Forget all the extraneous possessions in life that...
my parents valued and stuff like that. I changed my values. How about that? You have tiger parents? I do. Oh, hardcore tiger parents. Never good enough. Work harder. Hustle. Make more money. Do this. Do that. You know? Nothing's enough. I think it's like an ethnic group. It's called the tiger parents ethnic group. My parents are part of the same. So my dad, he revolutionized the nuclear pharmacy business. So like his name is in the books.
It was a new industry, so he made an impact. What's a nuclear pharmacy? Nuclear pharmacy, they sell radioactive drugs as opposed to regular drugs. So mostly for diagnostics, for hospitals and stuff like that. Or treatment for cancer. Imaging stuff. Imaging PETs. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So that's what he did. He started that kind of thing.
Was he like a researcher? No, he started off just as a pharmacist, a nuclear pharmacist. And he realized there was a market to kind of consolidate services to a hospital. There's no way to do these services. So he started the Walgreens.
of nuclear pharmacy he started a chain it was called sinkor back in the day yeah yeah and then he got bought off and etc etc but yeah that's how he started his wealth i guess so going back to the whole uh you know after the freak out yeah what happened like what was the the first thing how'd you hold on what was the first thing you did how'd you feel when you did it though i love freeing like freed like shackles broke off like
the burden is gone off of my shoulders. You know, I just felt so free. Like I just felt like I could do whatever I, I wanted to do. No more pressures of what a society wanted me to do, what my parents wanted me to perform as, what as me as an individual, what made me happy to feel my, fulfill myself. And that's the first time I've ever done that, you know, in my life.
almost 40s you know it's kind of late but like I've really discovered like what made me happy all your life you were playing the game absolutely that your parents said that America said that your teacher said what I should do as an 8 model Asian like there's a lot of levels study hard work hard make money whatever get a professional degree get married all these things on the timeline but I was like anti all that anyway I broke the patterns you have siblings? I do three older brothers they all followed the same patterns yeah
Damn. So I'm the only one who broke it. By that time, you were single or? I was single at that time. Okay. Yes. Yes. And what was the reaction from your? My parents disowned me. Oh, shit. Absolutely disowned me. It's like, you're a loser. You're spoiled. You don't want to work hard enough. You're not hungry enough. You know, all this stuff. And that was very difficult for me to like.
Obviously get their shame. Cause that's how I, you know, there's so much, that's what your value was derived from. Always like how to please them, please them, make them proud of me, not have that guilt. Not having was like the powerful lover that parents would, uh, Asian tiger parents would leverage shame. Now that, now that you put it in perspective, that's why we feel that it's not just guilt.
Guilt is like, I fucked up on something. Shame is like, I'm a fucking bad person. And that's what they would do. Oh, yeah. You're a bad person. They would make me feel that way. But obviously, I broke out of that. I was like, no, dude, there's much more value in life than all this hustle bustle, man. We have different values. How about that? We grew up at different times. I understand where they're coming from, but they don't understand where I'm coming from. And I just have to accept that. They're never going to understand that. I have to be okay with that. Yeah, that's big of you to do that.
Cheers to that, y'all. But now you're back in Shanghai, so obviously you made up. Yeah, we made up. We're made up. I'm grown now.
I'm more mature. Yeah. I want to, I want to keep hearing this. I want to keep hearing about this, the next step. What do I do? I start traveling. I spend time with nature. I spend time with people I care about. So mostly I went to national parks. Yeah. Hiking, camping, you know. And so this is the start of the van life phase. Yeah. Van life is all about spending more time in nature, getting connected with the, you know. So, okay. So this might be boring for some, but I'm curious. Um,
Like, it's easy to say van life. What are the actual logistics involved in actually starting van life? Such a Justin question. Yeah, well, it's complicated, right? People start off, I was set up. I had a really nice van, right? So I could live self-sufficiently in my van. Is it like a mobile home kind of van? Yes, absolutely. It was a Sprinter that was converted.
So it had the stove, the bathroom, heating, air con. The dream. Everything that you needed. There's no washing machine. That's the only thing you didn't have. But I had a little portable washing thing that I did myself.
I just want to simplify, right? Just minimalize my life because I had a huge ass house with nobody living in it, a huge ass mortgage, all these possessions that did not bring me any joy. And then once you minimalize all your stuff, you only get what you really love. And then you start appreciating things. Marie Kondo a little bit. Yeah. Right. What only sparks joy. Yeah. Or only necessities. It wasn't even spark joy. It was necessities, right? Because I'm living in a very small space.
So at that time, I only could have necessities. And then when you only focus on your bare necessities, like, where am I going to sleep tonight? How am I going to get my water supply tonight? What am I going to eat today? Stuff like that. You really start to realize what's important. All the stupid bullshit you really care or worry about does not count, does not matter at all. You know, so it really was like a mind opening experience.
And you were in Vegas? No, I was in California at the time. Oh, okay. And I told them I didn't get that far. We went to the middle of the U.S., but up to Washington, Idaho, Ohio.
And you did this, you did this alone? Two dogs, two dogs. Wow. Two little dogs. That made me feel safe though, honestly. But I'm sure you, on this journey, you were able to meet a lot of other people. I have met a lot of like-minded people. Yes. On the van life journey. A lot of interesting people, but at the same time, it was very uncomfortable. But word to you grows out of your comfort zone. I was scared most of the time. What were you uncomfortable about? Oh,
oh, like, where to sleep at? Am I going to get pulled? Is some cop going to roll up on me? Is some homeless people going to roll up on me? Sometimes I would park in an empty field and the next day there's all these workers the next day, like, freaking picking strawberries and shit. I was like, oh my God, I'm sorry. You know? I parked in a strawberry field. Oh my God. I parked in the middle of a strawberry. Just destroyed all the strawberries. Yeah. Crushing all the crops. She's like, wait, why is it smelling like strawberries? Yeah.
In the middle. I was like in the middle of the field. I was like, my bad. And they woke me up and knocked on my van. And then like in the morning at 5 a.m., of course, I'm like, I get all scared. My dogs are barking. So there's moments of really scaredness and uncomfortability. Okay, for sure. Yeah.
A lot of moments of like, whoa, do I need to live my life like this is very tough, right? Yeah. Why am I doing this to myself? Why am I doing that, right? Because it's a struggle sometimes. It's not that easy, y'all. You got to go to the laundromat. You got to go like, I sleep at Walmart parking lots. It's not the most... Because it's... So people try to glamorize it. Right. It's not glorified like that. So you're sitting in your living room watching on your fucking 4K TV. People live in the van life. You're like, yeah, that's amazing, right? Meanwhile, you're just like, hey, honey, can you give me the popcorn? Yeah.
once you live it I watch all those shows too that was what inspired me like live alone in Alaska survive on your own like they live in the van right once you live it I'm like oh damn it's more difficult than you think but anyway it's a very growing experience I would never trade that that was my best moment in my life I would say are there any outstanding moments or experiences that
You'll never forget that you can maybe recall right now. Yeah. Okay. Well, probably the best was when I drove out in the middle of nowhere and I found a random hot spring in the middle of like, I was just hiking with my dogs. I didn't know that was there. And I just hiked there and I found it. And then we just chilled for hours. I was sitting there. I cooked my food there. I was in the van and I was like, wow, this is amazing.
One of those moments. There's many moments like that. It feels like it's quite a minimalistic and peaceful moment that actually is outstanding. And it's these kind of moments that you tend to forget, especially like you said, the hustle. You're living in the hustle and bustle. The rat race. The rat race. Yeah. That you forget about these minimalistic moments that are most important, that affect you deeply. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
So I wish what everybody could experience or the feeling that I experienced, you know, maybe van life doesn't have to be the way to do it, but that's what made me realize it. Like what's important in life and what to value. Yeah. Actually, it makes me think back. I had a,
I have a friend that also did this living in China. No. Yeah. And it blew my mind. He was, we were on a shoot together and he was telling me, he's like, you know why I disappeared for half a year? I was like, no, what happened? He's like, I bought a secondhand van that has been converted to have a bed, a stove and all that stuff. Quit his job.
And him and his girlfriend just took a trip all around China from Shanghai all the way to like Sichuan, all the way back down to Guizhou and all around, you know, for half a year. And he said it was the most wonderful experience. It was amazing, obviously, seeing the country again.
And then he sold the van, barely losing any money off of it. So he didn't lose money off of it. And then he, you know, started working again. And it was one of those things that he just said, he just took a pocket of his life. Just a little moment, a pocket of a moment out of his life. But what he got out of it, the value of it was so big that it really, I don't know, for some reason, it got me a little emotional. Honestly, because I think I'm in a situation where I feel very, you know,
- Trapped? - Boxed in, boxed in a little bit. - Yeah, for sure, yeah. - And so if I were to do, even if I wanted to do something like that, I definitely could not right now. So I got a little emotional 'cause all of a sudden I felt through him being empathetic, I felt free. I felt a little bit of that freedom, even though I didn't do it. And it also made me realize the bravery it takes for someone to do that because you're literally going against the waves.
It's a lot easier, though, when you don't have kids. Oh, yeah. You got to be single. Well, some people do van life with four kids, y'all. I don't even know how they do that. So it is doable, but it's crazy. It's tough. But nonetheless, much respect. And I'm so curious to hear more about this. And it's a rare thing to do, especially for us here. We don't know other people. Because it's not... I think that one important point you're making is that
you don't have to make it as a permanent life decision, right? You can, you can take some time off to, to just sort of unplug and,
from the rat race. Well, it's just like what we always talk about, about moving to Dali, right? Oh, yeah. It doesn't have to be a permanent move, like what you're saying, Eric. It can be a very temporary thing and it can be purposefully a very temporary thing just to unplug for a moment and then you move out there for a year or two and you come back and then you rejoin whatever life you want here. And you rejuvenate. And they used to,
Do this more in the corporate world, I think. I've never done one, but I've heard the term a sabbatical. And when you're lucky enough to be able to do a sabbatical where, you know, you're someone that's very valued in the, you know, in the industry and you've got, you know, people care about you and stuff. I think it's harder and harder because we are, the rat race is accelerating. It's just getting harder and harder. There's AI, there's all this shit. It's more and more competitive. Yeah.
It's harder to just unplug. And sometimes you have to have the courage, like you're saying, the bravery, and then just be able to get a pocket of that. Because otherwise, I mean, life is really short. I mean, how many functional years do you really have? Because before the age of 20, you don't really know what the fuck's going on. And even just to have the ability to say, yeah, I did it. I've done that. Like you have for that two years. And that has deeply affected you.
That's something that 99.5% of the world... You always have that. But that's us. We pay lip service to so many things that we would fantasize about doing. And then when you meet people who have actually done it, and then it's just like, fuck, okay, well, what am I doing? And then it's just like this disparity between...
actual live life and what you actually want and how wide that gap is. Like, I go to, like, Dali for three days or Sashi, which is a little bit, and I'm just, like, bragging to people. I'm like, I did the fucking van life. And I was in Dali, I was in Yunnan for, like, just, like, four days, and I was posting Instagram videos. Like, I am, like, local and native there now. He stopped posting in English and started writing in local dialect. Exactly.
I was like posting videos of like me on a horse and be like, yep. And meanwhile, like the guide is like, oh, Mr. Yang, here, your right leg first. He cropped out the guy that was holding the reins of the horse. He cropped him out. I cropped out all the other little kids that were around me also riding horses. It's intoxicating, right? These places, certain places you go to, certain experiences you have,
It goes, I think, understated that the idea of us humans connecting to nature to a degree, it really does make you drunk in a way where you're just like, oh my God. And then the moment you unplug and the moment you get back into the hustle bustle of the actual city,
it starts fading immediately. Totally. And so that's why I want to ask you, Amy, like after your two years of band life, you've been living back in the cities, you're in Vegas, you're now you're in Shanghai, wherever you go. Have you felt that same...
Spirit, have you felt that fading? - Well, sometimes I go back to van life. When I go back into the van, I feel that feeling again. And yes, you forget it. You get jaded, you get back to the norm of reality and you forget that feeling. So you have to come back to mindfulness, presence. You have to remember that feeling and connect with nature more. Every time I go hiking,
I just had to describe it when you're in a big vastness of nature, everything feels so, all your problems seem so minuscule, right? So small. When you think about when you're in the big vastness of everything, you know, it's, it's our, it's our self-centered and like our egocentrism that,
that causes this and then when you go to nature and it's obviously very beautiful and all the just ugly dirty stupid human problems that we create because we're just idiot human beings exactly you're like oh like we just basically fucked ourselves exactly it's self-created problems it's a part of uh our wiring right 99 of all human experience has been as hunter gatherers and
And the very, like less than 1% has actually been in the modern age. Yeah. And so like, I have to imagine that there is a certain part of our intrinsic wiring that when we're confronted with the nature, especially the vastness of it all, that this primal instinct comes in where we're feeling like this is my nature. It's like, you know, it's like taking a fish.
Right? And then like putting it on land its whole life and then one day you put the fish back in the water and they're just like, oh. Oh, yeah. Wow. This is what I was supposed to be. Wait a minute. Yeah, this seems pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It works. I do think you make a really good point about being an intrinsic like human quality of being
needing to be with nature. Because remember, I was just in Austria a couple months ago and I was there for a couple weeks shooting and I was hiking. It was for a hiking film. So I was hiking the Alps for like two and a half weeks and I've never done that in my life. Legit hiking. Hiking gear, just going up and down the Alps. And you ask these guys, I was just raving about it and I want to get like into hiking. I really want to get into hiking. You've been saying that for a couple months now. What?
I'm not hating. I'm just saying. Get into it then. I have other priorities before going to hiking. But it's definitely in me. But it is one of those things that now that I'm back in the city, you start losing some of that. It fades quickly. And I hate it. It fades so quickly. Like you said, being mindful about it. Sometimes I'm laying in bed and I think back to when I was looking at the stars, for example, or just looking out into the mountains. The thoughts that went through my mind
were so deep and I felt so connected with myself that I reminded myself during those moments, don't forget it. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Absolutely. But you do forget once you're back. You forget it though. You forget it. Yes. It's scary. On the cab ride home...
typically from one of these, you know, excursions, you know, and, and from the airport, I can feel it fading on the cab ride. Right. And I'm looking at the streets in Shanghai and I'm like, just thinking like, wait a minute, you know? And yeah, by the time I get home, it's, that's almost gone. Let's break this down for a little bit. Do you think, do you think maybe we need to be a little bit more brave and
Oh, you do, for sure. Yes. Was it good? Oh, was there more? Hold on, Amy. How do we compare to the people that were around him at the time? Who's more vicious? Like the people that were around him back in the day in terms of ball busting? How do Howie and I rank? No, I think you guys are more legit. You guys are fine. We're good? Yeah, everybody busted balls. No, but how good are we?
Are we pretty solid? Your aptness at ball busting? How good you are at it? Yeah, like our skill level. I haven't seen enough of you. Are you noticing that everything has to go back to him? Did you notice that? I did not notice that. Is that accurate? He's a narcissist. Childhood trauma. That's another podcast. What years were the van life? Let me think.
2015 to 2017-ish to 18-ish. Okay, so pre-COVID. Pre-COVID, yes. It's pre-COVID.
Yeah, it would have been perfect during COVID. I know, right? I know, you're right. What was COVID like? I mean, not to take it too far, but just briefly, what was COVID like for you during that time in the States? For me in Vegas, I was in Las Vegas at the time in the States. For me, it was very easy. For me, actually, I was the happiest during COVID. Really? Why? Yeah, because I had some issue about FOMO. Like, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. But no one else is doing anything. Nobody's doing shit. I'm like, I feel great. That's exactly what I feel.
what I should be doing right now. I feel fucking fantastic. I love it when it's like raining fucking hard. It makes sense. That's when I realized, holy crap, you're doing everything else because of everyone else is doing that shit. So once I, after COVID, I was like, this is what I really want to do. So I thought I discovered a van life after,
After COVID, I was like, oh, for real now I've rediscovered what I really like to do or what makes me happy or satisfied, fulfilled. That's a fascinating thought, actually, if you really think about it. The fact that you were able to not have FOMO because the whole society was all shut down with you together. So all of a sudden, it was almost like FOMO was...
was, I don't know, trained into you, right? And you were like a monkey kind of like following it. Absolutely. I should be doing this. I should be doing that. I should be doing that. Exactly. Oh, that's all of us. Right? That's all of us. We all have that. And when you get forced, well, and everybody gets forced together to face something societal, which maybe is going to be happening again in the near future. Who knows? It will. You know what I'm talking about, right? Dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun.
But why do you have to wait till then? I mean, how do you break out of that? How do you... How does one... You know what I'm saying? How does one get out of that mindset? In the Batman movie... Hold on. Raise the arm. Batman movie, it says, don't wait for a dramatic event to break you out of apathy. Wait, raise the arm. What did you just say? You can...
That was some drunken slurring right there. They say one cheesy line. It's so cheesy. What was it? Raise the microphone to your face. Don't wait for a dramatic event to break you out of apathy. Like, don't wait for something crazy. Don't wait for a Jamaican man to break you out of an event. Am I speaking in Chinese? It sounded like Jamaican man. Don't wait for a dramatic event.
to break you out of apathy oh don't wait for something like oh i'm gonna get cancer now i'm gonna start living oh something crazy is gonna happen then i start realizing don't wait don't wait like start living now it's too late already exactly wait who says that batman batman says that she just walked out of the studio to be fair justin justin said she can do that john what is your reaction to everything that's been said so far
I mean, a lot has been said, so you gotta be a little bit more specific. Is there anything that stands out to you? I mean, obviously the van life. That's something that we all are interested in. You know, like, you know, how he said, you know, he went on a hike and all that. You know, I was just on a trip to New Zealand earlier this year and I experienced the same thing. The nature is amazing. Like, just being out there hiking, seeing the stars. It's incredible.
Yeah, even when I go out not even to like the real wilderness But when I just get to a place where there's less pollution There's less light pollution and I can I can actually see the stars at night like like with clarity Like even that there really is something like on a deeper level. I feel that transcends You feel small, but you don't feel bad about being small talking about stars
That trip that I was just mentioning, there was one night where the stars were out that I've never seen before. It was so bright. And we had about like 10 people around us all living in the same lodge. And everybody went outside to the backyard and just looked at the stars. Everybody was different, all types of personalities. But I can tell you when I joined the group, nobody talked. Everybody just was silent.
experiencing the vastness of the sky and all you hear is water, right? And then an introspection. It was incredible. And it was just one of those things that you just feel, I know, I get what you're saying. You don't want to use spirituals and those kinds of words, but I mean, what else can you say? Yeah. And just like what John was saying, he felt something as well when he was in New Zealand. And I saw that photo. It was beautiful. There's something about witnessing the beauty of nature that
When you're away from the artificial life that you normally live, that is incomparable. And it takes you to a place that we, as city dwellers, need more of, I think. It's like a motherly, nurturing feeling. It really is. It's a certain comfort. Stop it.
You're trying to link it to Mother Nature. I'm not... Stop it, Justin. I'm not trying to link it to Mother Nature, although that is what's happening. Maybe it's true for you. It's definitely not true for me. I mean, I love my mom, but like... Because the sky doesn't slap him. But she's definitely not... The sky does not yell at him constantly. Yeah, like she's not chill. I would say that...
you know, when you're in nature, it's the, it's the scale of things. It's the grandeur. It's the awe, right? It's the fact that this thing was created by something so much greater than you. And every day we live as if we are gods, right? Every day we live as if we should be able to control everything. And all of our worries and fears and stress is because we can't control all this stuff, but we think we can. We think we are the gods of our worlds. And then you go into nature and just like, you let go and you're like, okay, I'm,
I'm really just a tiny, tiny piece. Well, I think that's a narcissist part of you that you feel that you're gods in the world. I don't feel like I'm the god of my world. I'm not me. I'm just saying like all of our stress is because we want to control things. I didn't mean in the context of me. It's the stresses that we have is that we feel like we should have more control over things, you know? And so in a way, like we're all like kind of mini gods, right?
And when you go into nature, right, you step back and you realize that, oh, the connection to the rest of humanity. I am one of many. I'm connected to everyone else. People care because our survival instinct is so powerful. And when you put us in a city environment, that survival instinct turns us into these fucking demigods.
And then for us that, you know, we all live in Shanghai, right? Where it's relatively flat. There's no mountains. There's no lakes. Yes. And when we go into nature, at least for me, when I go into nature, it's like, oh my God, you know, this is so different. I could see the mountain range and it's like...
50 miles away yeah whereas in shanghai if you could see like the dongfang minzu it's like it's amazing already right and that's probably that's probably like 15 kilometers away i'm not even talking miles so it's very different like when you go into like nature in your city dweller it's like it's very very different and and then you appreciate what you don't have yeah right because if you're in the city it's like oh you know city life yeah and the stuff look the stuff that
was created here. Like you go to the Bund and you look at some of the stuff, oh, wow, that's amazing. It was built a hundred years ago. And then you go into nature. This shit was built millions of years ago. And so there's the scale, the vastness of what you see outside is on a different level. And I also think that, you know, when you're in sort of your city routine, you just have such a narrow perspective. Your mind is just so filtered in a way that
Caught up with the immediate tasks in front of you. And you lose your humanity. Essentially, like you're just a cog in this giant machine, you know, and you lose what it is to be a human being. When you go back to nature, you actually reconnect with,
with what it feels like to be human. It's like being caught up in the individual brush strokes rather than the larger picture that you're painting. And that's why people in the city just fucking drink, just to fucking escape. And just the pace of life in the city, right? It's so fast-paced, but when you're in the vast wilderness, you go at your own pace.
Yeah. Think about this, right? Think about human nature processes, right? For erosion, for whatever things happen. These are thousands, millions of years. Think about a city. You are part of a fucking giant motherfucking system, right? How do you get in the subway?
There's a certain behavior that you have to activate. You got to put your fucking bag in the thing. You got to get it checked. Everyone is a cog in the wheel, right? If you're like, no, I'm just going to fucking go into the turnstile. The turnstile will stop you. Every single thing in the system is predicated on there's an expected behavior. You go to an office, you say, fuck it, I'm quitting. That's it. That's your last day at the office, right? So every day, every place you go, it's your behavior. There's a permission aspect to everything you do. And there's a set process of what's expected, right?
And so everyone goes through, right? As literally like you're just puppets in a Shakespearean play, right? And you're just going through the turnstiles. You go to the work, you have the meeting, whatever, right? And everything is just sort of like, there's no free will and it's predetermined. You go to nature, then you're connected to much bigger processes than just some bullshit fucking shit city process, just so the economy is not going to crumble. Yeah. Like artificially constructed permission. Artificially constructed to keep 25 million people in a matrix. I thought,
It's a fucking matrix. Just about to say the matrix. Yeah. Break free from the matrix. Yeah, I'm fucking, let's all shave our heads and really see what's going on. So where are, what kind of headspace are you now in Amy in terms of, okay, so you've had this experience. Yeah.
It was transformative for you to a certain point. Absolutely. Now you've re-ingratiated yourself back into society. Are you back in pharmacy? No, I did not go back to the pharmacy job. He's like, I'm a pharmacist. So what is lasting for you now? Where is your headspace now? So I'm trying to convince everybody to go on self-sufficient farm, live off grid. So did you not have internet when you were vanlifing? Oh, I
had like just from cell phones. But yeah, I was going to ask you in the next question, how long have you guys been off grid for the longest time? How long have you guys been without service? So what is your definition of off grid? Without internet service? Without service, yes. Without cell phone. Well, that's the basic thing. For me, when you get deeper, for you city folk, it's about cell phone service. Like 10 minutes when I'm like Team G or something. Yeah, yeah, when I'm on an airplane. No, for real. For the two hours I'm on an airplane. Are you serious, y'all? Yeah.
How about when you went hiking? You went on a big trip. A couple hours. You have no service. A couple hours? Yeah, a couple hours. One day. One day. The max you've ever gotten, y'all. Yeah, one day. So I would encourage everybody to take a trip. For a week, at least. At least. I've gone one month with no internet service. I went up to the mountains of Peru. Oh, I had a satellite phone in case of emergencies. But that's it? That's it. Did you ever have to use it? No. What did that feel like? Fucking...
freeing because you don't need it and then you realize how much you don't need it yeah exactly how much you're a slave to it totally totally and how much unnecessary how like actually it's not productive in your life so one very minor and I'll highlight it's such a minor little thing but so you know people talk about this write about this and stuff so
To practice this, a couple of colleagues, we said, okay, let's not use any kind of technology. So you shut down all your devices. You have to actually shut them down so you don't have the temptation. And you do it from 7 p.m., let's say, to the next morning. And at first, it's a little bit uncomfortable. Because we're kind of addicted, right? But once you sort of just wean yourself off of it, for those 12 hours, it's liberating.
But just 12 hours, it's such a pathetic little thing. So pathetic. That's what I was just thinking. It's pathetic. The problem is, it's always in this fast-paced society. What's next? What's the next project? What am I going to do next? And you don't want to get left behind. Yeah. There's no presence. Like, how can I enjoy this right now in this moment? And that's why I go back to nature. You can enjoy that moment and stuff like that.
Yeah, the closest thing that I had experienced was I did a dopamine detox. That's... Oh, bro, I read that book. Oh, I didn't read the book. Which one? Dopamine Nation? It's called Dopamine Detox by some... It's a... The acid... It's some... Whatever. Author I can't pronounce. But yeah, dopamine detox. And every time we get a ping on our phone...
dopamine, dopamine. Every hit we get on, every email, everything is like dopamine, dopamine. So like our society now is so
hardwired for that we don't even know how to detect because it's your reward system at work exactly even a work email like you don't think it's a reward system because you think it's work but the fact that you don't know what it is yet and the surprise like oh it's that like even if it's a negative thing is initially your reward system being sparked and stimulated right and we're not adapted to that yet to
my opinion, evolutionary wise, we're still like the poisonous berry. Should we eat this or not eat this? It's not to these weird standards that we have now. We're not adapted to this life, dude. I don't feel like we should be living like this. This is disturbing. It's disturbing that the reality is, if we want to be honest with ourselves, that
we are all just addicts. - Yeah. - Right? - Absolutely. - 'Cause growing up, it's like the drug addict, you see them, you know, in a really difficult situation and you're just like, God, I'm so lucky that I'm not. But it's what's absolutely disturbing is that we are all addicts right now. We are all, maybe you're, you know, recovering addict. But I'm absolutely just disturbed that after this show,
In 30 minutes, I will be an addict again. We'll be back on our phones. 100%. And that was one of the hardest things that I had to deal with when I did it for a week. Right? And I fell off the wagon around four days. Like four days was pure. But four days were pure, like nothing. Except for work messages that I would periodically check. But other than that, nothing. And I only allowed myself to read.
and have conversations and spend time with my family. And obviously I had to do work and stuff like that, but I couldn't do research.
Long story short, after it was over, and I said this to the guys, it felt amazing, first of all. I got back into working out. All of a sudden, I felt better. I didn't feel so depressed. All of a sudden, I felt smarter. It was just weird. It's like all these things just start coming back. But why can't I keep that up? Why is it that after that detox was over, I immediately went back into my routines and
And I felt horrible about it. And literally, I'm walking around like, I fucking hate myself for doing this. But going back into this, I know it was so good. I got to get back into that. And thinking about, okay, how am I going to maybe try to do this once a month or something? But even bigger, now that we're talking about this, I think you've made a great point. We're not set up for this. We're not built for this. But we are addicted. Right.
Right? Eric hit the nail on his head. We are addicted. Correct. And it's funny because...
For example, while I was doing my detox, I was talking to my wife. Whenever she's away from the kids or taking a break, she's just like this, right? Non-stop. And I'm like, why don't you just go take a walk or do something else? You're addicted to your phone. And she's like, I'm not addicted to my phone. You're addicted to your phone. I'm not addicted to my phone. And I'm just like...
it just shows like typical addict behavior because everybody is addicted to that in that way. I just had another thought. I just want to get off my chest. There's one line. I forgot where I read it, but somebody said,
You know how when you take breaks, when you're working really hard, you take breaks and you just do like mindless scrolling or you watch some videos or something like that to relax, to kind of get yourself back into the work mindset, right? Somebody said what you should do actually when you take a break is do nothing. You should just sit there and just...
and just meditate or just rest. Yeah, exactly. Don't do anything that's stimulating. Right. Because if anything, by doing that, it will help you get back into that work mindset because work is better than just sitting there. Oh,
Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, okay. I don't know if that's a good advice, but I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. How about like, I have a problem. Maybe my Asian parents, I feel bad relaxing. I cannot relax. I need to be productive or else I feel useless. I'm an unproductive member of society. I feel like that's my upbringing or whatever. When you ask me, what have I done to...
carry over my van life sentiments what i have done is presence meditation journaling you know thinking about being present like that that's what i've done to try to keep that feeling and it's hard to keep it but yeah yes that's what you need to do presence you gotta about you gotta balance it though because the other part i mean the reason that this is happening is
is because we're also wired for performance, right? We're wired for survival. And so you can't fight that instinct as well. So you have to balance this need for performance versus peace. You can't, you know, like you can't just be like fucking in nature all the time. Yeah.
Why not? Why not? Because. Why not? Because nature has poisonous berries as well. People live off the ground. They hunt for food. True. They get their water from the river. The fact that we can't, maybe it's just a story or narrative we're telling ourselves. But people
The industrialized world convinced us this is the new whatever. Yeah, but you can't survive without it, right? Exactly. But there's another, I mean, humans are multifaceted as well. So while we have this need to connect with humanity and nature and all that stuff,
we're also wired for survival, right? The fact that you exist means you're a fucking high-performing survival machine to have made it to this point. Because think about all your ancestors, all the motherfuckers that died that didn't have kids, their genes fucking died. So everyone on this planet is like a fucking high-performance survival machine, right? So that's the other aspect. And that's why these, you know, social media and dopamine hits or whatever taps in and we're all sort of addicted to the same thing. So you have to...
you know, you have to connect that system then to something that will bring you fulfillment as well. You can't just like be on nature and just fucking chill every day. That's not going to work either, you know? So you have to find something and you got to find that balance.
I challenge that. I don't know. I challenge that. I challenge that. Honestly, I feel like it would be really difficult to do that for somebody that has been living all their lives in this urban environment. Oh, yeah. It'd be super difficult. But once you do it for a long enough time and becomes a way of living, I don't see a reason why you can't.
So I feel like people who are used to that life, who grew up on farms and they're used to that life, they see that allure. They grew up on a compound, multi-generational families. Everyone lives together, right? And my parents' view, they don't see that anymore. I've lost my, I've totally lost my train of thought. Go ahead. Take your time. Take your time.
It was good. It was good, but I just forgot. Just take your time. You'll get back there. Okay, it'll come back to me. Come back to me. But are you saying that, because I think what you said was interesting, is that they had this multi-generational, very static, and that life didn't change over time. And they were able to enjoy that over many generations. Whereas now in the city, right, we don't have that connection. Correct. It's just like this...
this constant rat race. That's what I'm saying. I feel like the biggest thing for now, the human connection, we should rely on everybody. We need to have that. Everybody's connected. I feel this society now is all hyper independent. I'm looking out for myself, my family and stuff. But in reality, everybody should be like,
community family we lost touch of that man and i just i just feel like it's not the way to living yeah it's like because cal newport who writes a lot about this type of stuff and digital minimalism and that kind of stuff he talked he wrote a book called slow productivity but then i've also heard the same term applied to like slow cooking maybe there's like a slow living
Oh, there definitely is a slow living. There is a slow living? Absolutely. There is a slow living. That's a term. That's a term. Yes, it is. I didn't just invent that. No, no, no. You wish. I was like, wait a minute, like America. Oh, wait, there's a guy named Columbus. Sorry. When he brought that up, he thought, he's like, I'm inventing a word right now. I can't wait to say it. He's like, mic drop, mic drop. Slow living. He's like, this is going to be a mic drop moment. Cal Newport. Coin the new term. Yeah. Columbus, what? No. No.
Missed that one. Okay, I want to wrap it up on this, Amy. And it's that... Don't bring it back to me. I want to bring it back to you. Bring it back to me. What's up? I mean, we've talked about van life and stuff, but I want to bring it back to this idea of, okay, so now you're kind of out of van life and you're, I guess, maybe considering your next chapter in life and maybe what the rest of your
life wants to look like. At least for the near-term future. What are you thinking? What's going on in your head? Because I know there's maybe this little bit of battle between maybe staying back in America versus moving out to Asia. Where are you on that spectrum now and where are you leaning towards? There's always a struggle still between societal standards because
That's where all my friends are at. That's what everyone's doing. You mean back in America? Everywhere. Not just in America. Well, I'm talking about you personally. Personally. I just... Okay. Personally. Everybody's got their own thing going, right? So I just feel like I need... I'm focusing on what I think is important. What values I think is important. Even though everybody...
And my circle doesn't seem to be on the same level as I am. I realize that, though, because they're too busy with their families. They're too hyper-focused. They don't have the time. I'm very grateful that I have the time and energy. If I was working 100 hours a week, 80 hours a week, I would not have the time nor energy to self-explore this spirit— I don't want to call it spiritual, but self-improvement life or whatever.
If you're too busy in survival mode, you have no time to figure out what really brings you fulfillment or satisfaction. So I feel like that's the old generation. They were surviving and I get it. But now our generation, this set us up so we don't have to do that anymore. So we should take advantage of the opportunity they gave us. So then where do you see yourself in the near future? Oh gosh. So I want to spend time with...
friends and family who are important right everybody's like oh I wish I didn't work so when everybody on their deathbed what do they regret most I wish I would spend more time with family I didn't wish I wish I didn't work that hard stuff like that so I just go with the advice of the other wise people so yeah stop working so hard don't hustle that much spend time with your family unless you know
It's all relative, okay? Because I'm already set up. I will just say that, okay? So if I had to struggle for eating and drinking, it'd be a different story. So I'll tell you that now. I don't have to struggle for that. So I have the opportunity to focus on what's valuable to me, which is my friends and family and experiences, not possessions or things. Well said. Okay. All right. Well, I guess we'll wrap it up here for now. John, do you have anything to add?
No, I'm good. You're good? Okay. No, he wants to say something. Yeah, what do you want to say? You wanted to say something before. Yeah, I think so. He's got good thoughts. No, no, that was earlier. You know, we're talking about, you know, how we're on the rat race, right? So it's like there's studies now that say like when you're showering, you shouldn't be listening to podcasts. You shouldn't be so engaged all the time. You need this time to yourself so you can self-reflect and see what you actually want.
So if you're always constantly looking at your phone or being engaged, you don't have that time to yourself to kind of hear yourself, if you will. So that's what I wanted to add earlier, but it's a little bit... Oh, that's great. Well said, John. That's actually... That's actually powerful, man. Yeah, that's actually profound. It's like we do have this...
We have noise and voices coming from within ourselves that we just ignore, I guess, most of the time. We drown out. And these are our needs or our instincts or our emotions or our feelings or whatever it is that's ailing us. And then we don't pay attention to these and we feel like it's not to be heard or we don't even notice that they're even emitting a noise.
And the fact that when we distract ourselves, we're missing a golden opportunity to actually listen to ourselves. That's actually pretty profound, I think. Yeah. You know, like the funny thing is like he's just the way he is. He's immune to the ball busting. Like whatever he says, we're just like, that's profound, dude. Right? He doesn't get any of our shit. Like he's good. He's a stokeway. He's good. He's good. All right. Anyway.
Amy, John, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me. You made it through. You survived the podcast experience. I was sweating, y'all. Sorry. All right. I'm Justin. I'm Howie. And I'm going to take some more showers. Be good. Be well. Peace.