Ep. 2185 - My Journey To Ukraine and My Interview With Zelensky
54:20 Share

Well, folks, a big question I've been getting since we released the trailer for my interview with President Vladimir Zelensky of Ukraine is why go to a nation under fire? Why take a crew and take that risk? And the answer is simple, because the truth matters and facts matter. We want you to be smarter and know more things. That's what this show is for. You, our Daily Wire members, deserve the truth.

This is the kind of journalism your support makes possible. This is the community that fights for your values. Join us right now at dailywire.com slash subscribe. So last night, Vladimir Putin's Russia blanketed Ukraine with missiles and drones in what was perhaps the largest scale air attack on the country since 2022. One missile apparently struck an apartment building in Kiev and killed nine people and wounded another 63. This, of course, is a war zone.

A little bit earlier yesterday, the Trump administration rolled out its proposed outline for a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. This was being negotiated in London. It's a peace deal under which Ukraine would have been forced to accept Russian annexation of Crimea. That's the very southern portion of Ukraine that

is on the Black Sea, as well as control of eastern Ukraine. Russia is currently in control of large swaths of eastern Ukraine and has been since 2014. It would have removed NATO membership from the table for Ukraine. Ukraine obviously is interested in joining NATO because that would mean that an attack

on a NATO member would allow for Article 5 invocation, meaning other countries would have to come to Ukraine's defense. The deal would prevent Ukraine from becoming a NATO member. It would have provided little or nothing in the way of security guarantees for Ukraine. So the proposed Trump deal did not obligate the United States to come to Ukraine's defense or even allow for the EU's

defense of Ukraine. Maybe they could have, maybe they couldn't have, but that was unclear. And it also would have full-scale ended sanctions on Russia. So clearly this peace deal gave Russia a bunch of things that Russia was looking for if it had been accepted by Ukraine. Russia has not accepted a peace arrangement along any of these lines. You should be clear about this. Essentially, the proposal that was published was

was the United States, Europe, and maybe Ukraine kind of negotiating against themselves because there's no one else at the table right now. Now, Zelensky rejected handing over Crimea legally because that would be making a major legal concession without actually getting anything from Russia in return. If you preemptively say Crimea is now part of Russia, you've now said it, and Zelensky doesn't want to do that. He has accepted the Trump proposal for a 30-day ceasefire without any preconditions. It has been true for weeks. Vladimir Putin has not, not for one second, which is...

which is why last night the Russian missiles were falling on Kiev. They're also falling on Lviv, which is in the western part of the country. It was a bad night in Ukraine. Now, Putin, again, has at no point actually given any sign that he truly wants the war to end. If you want the war to end, the

The question is, will Zelensky accept an end to the war and will Putin accept an end to the war? Zelensky has said he will. Putin has given no sign whatsoever that he actually will. Instead, it seems like he's slow playing this thing. He seems to be biding his time, waiting for the United States to pull out of negotiations and out of funding Ukraine entirely. And that's a bet that could pay off given the Trump administration's repeated statements that if no deal is accepted, the United States will simply walk away from the table. Here was Vice President J.D. Vance saying just that yesterday.

Well, I'm going to echo something Secretary Rubio said, which is, look, we've issued a very explicit proposal to both the Russians and the Ukrainians, and it's time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process. We've engaged in an extraordinary amount of diplomacy, of on-the-ground work. We've really tried to understand things from the perspective of both the Ukrainians and the Russians. What do Ukrainians care the most about? What do the Russians care the most about? And I think that we've put together a very fair proposal.

Okay, well, whether the proposal is fair or not, if Russia refuses to accept the deal and then the United States walks away, Russia is the party that actually benefits from that. The Trump administration's pressure right now has been almost solely relegated to Ukraine at this point. That's just the reality. President Trump unleashed a post on Truth Social yesterday attacking Vladimir Zelensky and blaming him for the continuation of the war. He stated, quote, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky is boasting on the front page of the Wall Street Journal that Ukraine

Ukraine will not legally recognize the occupation of Crimea. There's nothing to talk about here. This statement says President Trump is very harmful to the peace negotiations with Russia and that Crimea was lost years ago under the auspices of President Barack Hussein Obama and is not even a point of discussion.

Nobody's asking Zelensky to recognize Crimea as Russian territory. But if he wants Crimea, why didn't they fight for it 11 years ago when it was handed over to Russia without a shot being fired? Well, if that's true, and nobody's asking for Zelensky to actually recognize Crimea as Russian territory, what's the discussion that's happening? President Trump continues, the area also houses, for many years before the Obama handover, major Russian submarine bases, its inflammatory statements like Zelensky's.

They make it so difficult to settle this war. He has nothing to boast about. The situation for Ukraine is dire. We can have peace or he can fight for another three years before losing the whole country. I have nothing to do with Russia, but have much to do with wanting to save on average 5,000 Russian and Ukrainian soldiers a week who are dying for no reason whatsoever.

The statement made by Zelensky today will do nothing but prolong the killing field, and nobody wants that. We're very close to a deal, but the man with no cards to play should now finally get it done. I look forward to being able to help Ukraine and Russia get out of this complete and total mess. Again, this is President Trump saying this. That would have never started if I were president, unquote. Now, listen, President Trump's frustration is clear and understandable. But let's be also clear about this. For this conflict to end, Russia has to come to the table.

Why is the question what Ukraine is willing to do when the real question here is why Russian aggression has not stopped for a single moment for three years? The American people, obviously, we need to understand just why it is important for Ukraine not to collapse amidst the escalation of Russia's invasion.

So, with the Russia-Ukraine war now in year number three, with tens of thousands of dead on each side and hundreds of thousands wounded, probably 50,000 dead on the Ukrainian side, maybe 200,000 dead on the Russian side, with Eastern Ukraine and Crimea currently in Russian hands, and with the Trump administration obviously trying to end the war through negotiation, we felt that now was a vital time to actually travel to Ukraine to discuss this crisis immediately.

with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky. The American people have a lot of questions, and they have a right to know why they should care about this conflict in a faraway place, and to have their questions answered on matters ranging from how their tax dollars are being spent, to the treatment of Christians in Ukraine, from the nature of Russia's aspirations in Ukraine, to the Ukrainian desire to remain free of Russian domination.

So the trip into Ukraine wasn't exactly easy. It's, of course, a war zone. First, we traveled some 12 hours from Florida to Krakow. That's Poland. And then we took a 10-hour car ride with security from Poland to Kyiv. The border crossing was pretty much deserted. Not a lot of people are trying to get into Ukraine at this point in time. The country itself, it's a beautiful country. The breadbasket of the continent, Western Ukraine, which is what you drive through to get to Kyiv, is rolling farmland dotted with forest.

My great-great-grandparents came originally from this general region, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine. I tried to see it through their eyes as we were driving. What it must have been like 150 years ago, before the carnage of the Ukrainian Holodomor, which is the Stalin-created genocidal starvation campaign against Ukrainian farmers and their families, and against those who oppose the evil of Soviet collectivization.

and what it was like before the Nazi invasion in 1941 and the mass slaughter of Jews with roving bands of SS mowing down tens of thousands of Jews over open pits in Babi Yar, shipping Jews via train to death camps all over Europe.

Timothy Snyder, historian and author of a book called Bloodlands, Europe Between Hitler and Stalin, writes, quote, During the years that both Stalin and Hitler were in power, more people were killed in Ukraine than anywhere else in the bloodlands or in Europe or in the world. For both Hitler and Stalin, Ukraine was more than a source of food. It was the place that would enable them to break the rules of traditional economics, rescue their countries from poverty and isolation, and remake the continent in their own image.

If you know history, the voices of all of our brothers' blood cries out from the ground of Ukraine. And the history of Ukraine's suffering doesn't stop with World War II. After the war, the Soviet Union again was in control of Ukraine. Its history was then steamrolled and homogenized to fit Soviet presumptions.

After the Cold War, after the Soviet Union fell, Ukraine broke free. It became independent. It gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the West. Didn't go well for Ukraine, obviously. Torn between the attraction of joining the post-Soviet West and Russian pressure from the East, the country was governed by a series of corruption-ridden governments, culminating in the victory of Viktor Yanukovych

whose pro-Russian swing led to the so-called Maidan Revolution of 2014. Yanukovych was ousted, Vladimir Putin, dictator of Russia, seeing Ukraine slipping out of his grasp, then launched invasions of the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine, as well as Crimea. Both of those were largely Russian-speaking areas that favored a closer relationship with Russia, but they didn't actually want to be fully ruled by Russia by the polling data available at the time.

Instead, Putin brought in what were called little green men who he said were sort of domestic insurgents. They're actually Russian soldiers to take over those areas. Citizens of those areas were brought under Russian control. And then came 2022. Sensing weakness from the American-led North Atlantic Treaty Organization in the aftermath of Joe Biden's surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban, Putin launched a full-scale invasion of the rest of Ukraine. When the war began, few expected Ukraine to survive. Indeed, the first Russian push into Ukraine came within weeks.

10 or 12 kilometers of Akiv, the capital city, which is located on both sides of the Dnieper River. Actually, Vladimir Zelensky was made offers by the Europeans to flee the country. But Ukraine instead fought back. Their forces actually pushed the Russians back toward the east and toward the south. After three years of war, that is where the lines remain. Carnage continues in Kharkiv and Zaporizhia. Bombs continue to fall. Drones continue to fly, particularly last night.

The Russian government since 2014, in an effort to rucify Ukrainian children, has abducted tens of thousands of kids from eastern Ukraine and Crimea back into Russia. As the New York Times reported in 2023, quote, Russian officials have made it clear their goal is to replace any childhood attachment to home with a love for Russia.

Hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers and contractors have died, according to the BBC. Around 50,000 Ukrainians have been killed, according to Zelensky's government. As of February, the numbers are probably higher. President Trump's entry into office provided the possibility of something new. Pledging to end the war, the Trump administration insisted on negotiations and to that end put pressure on both Zelensky and Vladimir Putin to come to the table.

After a fraught conversation with President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance in the Oval Office, Zelensky has agreed to an unconditional 30-day ceasefire. Putin has agreed to nothing. The United States, under Special Envoy Steve Woodcuff, continues to advocate for Ukrainian concessions, ranging again from recognition of Russian territorial annexation to abandonment of intent to join NATO. Putin, for his part, has mouthed words of interest, but has shown little willingness to make any real concessions at all.

That is where things stood as we traveled into Ukraine. We'll get to more of this in a moment. First, do you know what I hate? Big government. Do you know what else I hate? Being overcharged. Pure Talk, the cell phone company I use for business every day, is helping you save money on your cell phone bill. That is correct. Pure Talk says, I don't think so, to $100 a month cell phone plans. That's just wasteful, irresponsible. Instead, they're offering America's most dependable 5G network at America's most sensible prices.

Listen to this. Unlimited Talk taxed 15 gigs of data plus mobile hotspot for just $35 a month. The best part? Right now, you'll get a free one-year membership to Daily Wire Plus. Access the entire library of Daily Wire Plus movies and documentaries. Enjoy uncensored, ad-free daily shows. And as always, your

your free leftist tier Tumblr. With Pure Talk's US customer service team, you can switch hassle-free in as little as 10 minutes. Go to puretalk.com slash Shapiro. Switch on over to Pure Talk at puretalk.com slash Shapiro. Get a year of Daily Wire Plus for free with qualifying plan. Again, I've been using Pure Talk myself for years at this point. Excellent coverage, the best price in the business.

Go check them out right now. Pure Talk, wireless by Americans for Americans. puretalk.com slash appear to get a year of DailyWire Plus free with a qualifying plan. Also, not everyone who handles your personal information is going to be as careful as you are. It only takes one mistake to expose all that information to hackers and identity theft. That's why there's a new victim of identity theft every five seconds in the United States. Fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points

A second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US-based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed, or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by a million-dollar protection package, meaning LifeLock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft. You cannot control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with LifeLock, you can help protect it. One of my producers, Jess, currently uses LifeLock. She's told me that she feels a lot better knowing that

Their experts are always monitoring her sensitive information for suspicious activity. Act right now. Save up to 40% your very first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK. Use promo code Ben or go to lifelock.com slash Ben for 40% off. Terms apply.

It got dark as we were driving. As we neared the city, an app on our phones sounded a drone alert in Kyiv. Drone warfare has become one of the most highly publicized aspects of the war in Ukraine. Ukrainian forces, at a material disadvantage in the early days of the war, engaged in technological creativity to counter Russian advances. Russia then responded by building new drones with Chinese help, as well as by importing drones from Iran. By the time we reached Kyiv, the drone sirens had stopped.

After a very short night in the center of Kyiv, we visited the site of the Bobinyar Massacre, which is just across the street from a television tower struck by a Russian missile in the early days of the war. We visited a blown-out building, hit multiple times in a variety of Russian attacks. We visited a memorial to the victims of the Holodomor. The city is beautiful, but it obviously feels pretty empty. Approximately 7 million Ukrainians have left the country during the war. That's out of a total population of 44 million or so in 2021.

I attended a meeting of the All-Ukrainian Council of Churches and Religious Organizations with representatives of 15 different religious sects attending to discuss religious freedom and traditional values with Zelensky. A member of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine was joined by a member of the Catholic Church, for example, to ask for a ministry of family to foster higher birth rates and support more kids in Ukraine. Other members of the council asked President Zelensky about military deferment for members of the clergy. And then finally, it was time to sit down with President Zelensky.

President Zelensky looks weary, but upbeat. He is, of course, very camera friendly, given his history as a TV star. We sat in the shadow of the St. Sophia Cathedral, the first foundations of which were laid in 1011, centuries before the Tsardom of Russia. Here, then, is part one of our interview with President Vladimir Zelensky in Kiev, Ukraine, at perhaps the most crucial moment for the negotiations yet in the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine.

President Zelensky, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thanks for coming, Ben. So I want to start by asking you about the meeting that you had in the Oval Office with the president and the vice president. This is almost a couple of months ago. Obviously, things went sideways. How do you feel that you could have handled things better with the president and vice president? After...

This meeting, our teams had plenty of meetings. Well, not enough of meetings to put an end to this war, but still there were positive meetings. There were meetings that were fruitful, and our teams have agreed that everyone will participate.

support the complete ceasefire mode. And that was a meeting in Saudi Arabia. Then there was another meeting. Then it was a meeting in France tomorrow. By the way, there will be a meeting in London. So as you can see that what's important to us is the teams of Ukraine and the United States plus our European colleagues. That is, our team has started to work together

together with the United States, and I can see some positive things about this. I'm grateful to this, to all the partners, and I'm grateful to President Trump for this, as well as to Kiri Starmer and to Emmanuel Macron and to all the leaders who constantly support this very beginning, the complete ceasefire. It's the beginning of the path towards the stable and hopefully fair and just peace of

And that is why I think we do have good meetings right now, and I would say good possibilities. Now the question is Russia, and that is the only element in this construct that is not yet ready to put an end to this war. And we hope on the strengths of the United States, on the strengths in terms of the sanctions, on the experience of the United States, and the influence that the United States has on Russia.

So, for Russia to agree to put an end to this war, it depends on them. As for our meeting in the Oval Office, I kept saying that we needed this meeting. We had to talk over a variety of elements. We had different meetings, fruitful and more philosophic meetings, I would say, on different stages of our lives.

and the meeting with President Trump as well. So I think that the meeting in the Oval Office, it did not help Ukraine, it did not help to the United States. And no one, I think we should, you know,

When Ukraine and the United States are having the meeting, we should give light to people. We should demonstrate this path that I've already mentioned to a path towards the end of this war. We count on this strategic partnership, and we always respected the people of the United States and the choice of the United States and the support coming from the United States. And that is why I think that we will have more fruitful meetings with President Trump, but

You have to understand, Ukraine, that we are defending against Russia's offense. And we believe Russia is an enemy. We believe the United States is a true and real friend. We know that the United States has a position to serve as the mediator in this conflict. That is the choice made by the United States. But we consider the United States as a strong strategic partner with an influence.

And we would really like to have these two strengths that would be used towards Russia so that the force would be towards Russia because they are the aggressor. And we would like really to have this common understanding that Russia is the aggressor, not we. And we really want the United States not to search for the balance in these words.

I understand what President Trump is willing to have. I highly respect the fact that he's searching for an approach. That's his approach. Somebody might have a different approach, but...

You shouldn't be saying that Ukraine and Russia started this war. I believe that it's painful for our people to hear, and this is why we respond in this way. We're talking about the dignity of our country. We have demonstrated that we are ready to protect our dignity in any situation. I'm doing that as the president.

We have clearly demonstrated that in the beginning of the war. It was the war. It still remains the war. We have only one enemy, Russia and Putin. And that is why even if we're talking a diplomatic environment, everything is related to the Ukraine's dignity. I will always defend it. This is my job. I'm the president. I'm the guarantor of the Constitution of Ukraine. So, Mr. President, there are a lot of questions in the United States about

how American funding is spent. So we've spent nearly 200 or allocated nearly $200 billion to the defense of Ukraine. There are lots of questions about where the money is going to pensions, to

war profiteering, to corruption. How do you answer those questions? What kind of transparency can you provide to the American people to guarantee that their taxpayer dollars are being used in the best possible way to fight Russia, to defend Ukraine, and to ensure that if the United States wants, wouldn't ought to be possible by the United States of where those dollars are going? Got it.

Yes, let me start with the end of your question. As for the audit, the United States have to understand there's United States inspectors working. There's the inspectors of European countries because they've also allocated the money and we are also grateful to them. Just as to the United States, we highly respect

the support and assistance coming from the people of the United States as well as the people of Europe. That is why we have told at once that we are ready to have any inspections from the very beginning of the war. The inspectors coming from the United States, Europe, and our own inspectors, they're working. We have complete reporting counting, absolutely transparent within the Ministry of Defence. There is access to

to all the figures starting from the very first year of the war. There's always, and there's been always an access. When we've seen in the very beginning of the war that Russia attempted to undermine the support and assistance coming from the United States, because the United States

with the main donor and they wanted to undermine this through fake news, through other tools. That is why we told it once that we are open, send the inspectors and they were inspectors. So as for the audit, we're always ready to any order. There's nothing to hide. We're absolutely open, transparent. And that is what happening. There's all the reports available. The second aspect,

I never wanted to, you know, well, I just, I was grateful to all the U.S. taxpayers. I understand that the United States have different programs, directions, and that is also related to the

weapons support and to the assistance of other countries of the world. I want to be absolutely frank. That's with regards to the audit. I have my own internal audit and I clearly understand how much assistance coming from which country at which moment was provided to Ukraine. I'm not responding wholly to like saying that United States has transferred something around 200 billion. I'm responding to the facts.

the United States could be, you know, registering that, could be voting. And we are grateful to the bipartisan support in the Congress because we are grateful to this unity around the fight of Ukraine for the independence and your great assistance and the great contribution of the United States in this, in the defense of our people.

I have my own internal audit and my country is clearly documenting how many assistance was provided. Just for you to know, we had 104, 105 billion US dollars. Most of those money were in the form of weapons. Now, that's first thing. All of those weapons came. The money were paid to...

to the transportation of those weapons. Ukrainian companies were not allowed to transport this money. That's why we haven't received, not in the public, not in the private sector, the money for the transportation. There were different assistance programs. The training of Ukrainian soldiers abroad. There's many things. I'm documenting and registering what we have. I understand there could be different calculations, different assistance programs or aid programs, but

This is like an audit, really.

You are verifying what was the output, so to say, and we kind of verify what was the input. We verify this because we need to, you know, keep the face in our relations with the key strategic partner. It's very important. It's not that we're arguing that the United States have said that we're giving you 200 and Ukraine is saying, no, it's 100. No, it's not an arguing. It's not a dispute. But it's important that...

Both countries and the taxpayers, they should know where their money are. So that's it. And I kept saying all the time, it's not that I'm not properly responding to 200, 300, 400. No, no, no. I'm responding to what was the input, so to say, how many money came to Ukraine. Now, in terms of the use of those money...

Primarily, that was for the weapons they were used on the battlefield. And the audit that I've mentioned clearly documented that whether this weapon was used on the battlefield or in accordance to some of the information been posted on the media. Primarily, there were the Russian narratives that some of the weapons were sent elsewhere or there was some corruption related to this weapon, something was sold. No. All the audit that took place

not a single time has found any fact of sales of US weapons to somewhere abroad. So there was no information like that in any of the audit. Then, secondly, the funding, they support the different social programs. That was different social programs, but the salary...

that we pay to our soldiers, the pensions that we pay to our pensioners. And we have 11.5 million pensioners. So the salaries and the pensions, these are only paid from the Ukrainian budget. This is only by the Ukrainian money. Not because we didn't need the kind of financial support or the support to the people. There were different aspects, infrastructural aspects, etc. We needed all of that and we are grateful to all that. But

The United States have to know that they were not feeding our pensioners and our soldiers with regards to the salary or the compensation. Surely you've provided the most important aspect, that is the weapons, the weapons we needed to defend. Now, those things are very important. Now, there are special programs or separate programs

And we have the clear figures behind those. When the United States were paying money for the development of a certain direction in the technological kind of development, like in new drones, and there were direct funding either in the private sector that was constructing the drones like that,

What the United States have received, well, the exchange of information. The United States, without the war, would never have received the knowledge. I'm not saying that war is good. That's horrible. But whenever we're saying what the United States have received, for example, when there were some programs, when the United States had funded the weapons and they were transferring information

the patriots to us and we are grateful to the united states uh first of all for this they know that all the air defense systems that we had different shells there is a theory shells even 155 uh shells could be different the hybrids etc all the ukraine have been using ukraine provided the reports to the united states and ukraine has improved many of the elements and specifications

by our engineers, by our people on the ground. They've improved the specifications of the weapons. The United States have received a true report based on the largest land operation, land war in

many years. So now the United States know where to invest the money, where not to invest the money. I know those conclusions, but this is not public information. But the United States have received this knowledge, this data, and this knowledge could not be acquired without the live operations that the United States have provided money to the development of different drones. Surely it's all about our special forces,

Recon Intelligence Security Service of Ukraine, foreign intelligence. These are the separate money. They are part of those 105 billion. So this is where the scientists were working, the recon intelligence, the military engineers were working. Now, what the United States have received...

When the United States have paid for those developments, the United States have received complete and open information on the drones. This is the new weapons that was not available to the United States, to Europe, and surely we didn't have it. Now, the United States have received all this experience, all this know-how and developments.

I'm not willing to say that it's a cheap price for all of those developments. We are grateful to every single cent paid by the United States, but this is the fair price, so to say. The knowledge, the experience, you know, that the whole world is based on the knowledge, and I believe that this is what the United States have received. Then how are medics being operating on the battlefield? Everyone knows about this. There's...

medical points or medical stations close to the battlefield where the military surgeries have been taking place. There's medical assistance of different sort that has been provided. Now, all this knowledge, all this experience were transferred to our partners. They've seen that they could make conclusions. They supported the people. The United States together with Europeans have provided the support to the people and I can give you the conclusions.

You can compare the number of killed and the number of casualties. Now, I'm not comparing the Russian army with the Ukrainian army, but look at the portion of the wounded in action and the killed in action. We have the portion of the wounded in action the lowest. If we have one to ten, that is one killed, you have ten wounded in action. Now, in case of Russians...

In case of 10 casualties, there will be five killed in action or six by four. So we're saying that's a different level of medical support. And that knowledge was also provided to our partners. Now, what exactly the United States have received as well? This is the most important thing that I have not mentioned yet. Let's be frank. The people in the world, they believe that we are living kind of fence,

against Russia's invasion to the civilized world, including the NATO member nations. And we are kind of a living shield. We are defending this. So if Putin will come to the NATO member countries or when he will do that, I don't believe that I know everything in advance, but let's just imagine because everyone see who they have case with. So imagine

Putin might go to the European countries. Now, in this case, there would be a need to defend the European nations or to leave the NATO. I'm not saying whether the United States should be doing that or not. That's the choice made by the people of the United States and other allies. But this is a question that will definitely be on the agenda.

So as long as Russians are not in any single NATO member nation, your families are not facing with this question. So there will be a major question for your families either to send your child to the war or not, to the other country, to some foreign country. So that's the kind of question. Now, the cost of United States not searching

And the families are not searching for an answer to this complicated question of whether to send their son or daughter, whether they will return home, like, alive or wounded. Nobody knows the cost of that question.

whether the United States is the kind of the most, the richest economy in the world, whether this is the biggest amount paid for what's being provided. I'm not saying that's a small amount. I'm saying that this is the fair. This is fair. It's fair that the United States assisted and supported Ukraine and Ukraine

gave away a lot in return for their support and assistance. And of course, the most precious thing we have is the life of our people. So I want to get to Russia's intentions in a moment and the possibilities of a ceasefire. But Americans have questions about things that are happening here. So there have been a lot of accusations that there's been a crackdown on religious freedom in

in Ukraine, particularly with regard to the Russian Orthodox Church. I just watched you perform a meeting with the All Church Meeting with members of a wide variety of faiths. Maybe you can respond to the accusations that there's a restriction on religious freedom with regard to Russian Orthodox in Ukraine. Well, first of all, I'm very happy that you're here.

that you had a chance to take a look. And really, we have a meeting like that a couple of times per year, and I truly visit some of the church sites. And during Easter, there's the Easter meetings and the Passover. And we have a meeting with all of our religious institutions

And I believe that what Ukraine has, and that is the largest council of churches, the largest in Europe, all of our churches are united, different religions, and everyone is united. So we are considering the question, there is the problem in military chaplains, the mobilization of pastors or in other places.

or priests. There's different questions. We help one another. We believe that the religious actors, if they're on the front line, it could be only through their will voluntarily and they should be supporting military now. If those religious actors, if they're willing to do that, we are kind of considering every single question. We do not believe that these are the major challenges because we are having a meeting

And if you have a regular meeting, if you have a regular dialogue, then all the big challenges, they kind of remain, but only small ones. And in many cases, we solve those challenges, but they're not catastrophic. They're not tragic for the country and for the religious unity that we have in Ukraine. And we are openly doing that.

Now, they advocate what you've heard abroad. They have one single voice, different faith, but single voice. Nobody's pressing anyone. So today, Sviatoslav

went to prepare to Rome. And there's all those ceremonies around the Pope Francis. So, Sviatoslav went there, went to Rome. He needs that. That's correct. And I'm also planning, together with my wife, to have a visit. We'll have several meetings around the same dates.

Now, as for the pressure, there's no pressure, and you will never hear anything about the pressure because we don't have any additional dialogues with our religious institutions or religious leaders. There's no shadow practices. We're absolutely open, transparent. There could be cameras. We're no cameras. We're absolutely open. Everyone can tell you there's no pressure whatsoever.

That's non-existent and every holidays we are together, we have people from different religions and we're always inviting everyone. That's important. As for the Moscow church, look, the question is not about the Moscow church.

The question is that in case of Russia, Moscow is just another agency of the KGB. Everyone knows that Russia's special services are in control of the churches. Well, this is how they have. That's their choice. And their people...

either support that or not, well, that's their choice. That's their right. And we've never raised this question before the war and during the war. But that's a fact that their special services are in control of the prayer church. The problem was that their special forces was in control of the churches in Ukraine. That's not...

The truth is that the church should be equal and Moscow could not be in control of our church. Their KGB, their intelligence could not be in control or could not be managing the Ukrainian church. Well, they shouldn't be here. So the legislative changes in Ukraine are related to the fact that there could be no connection in between of the Moscow and the church. Nobody closed

anything or anyone, but it can't be the case that Russia's KGB is in control of the church in Ukraine. Everyone is against these legal ties. So it's not only about the ties at the level of intelligence. There was a legal connection, legal ties for many years, but that shouldn't be the case.

We shouldn't be having disputes or controversies around whose church is older than the others. And Ukraine is not really, shouldn't be speaking about this. Look, we're sitting here close to the Sofia Cathedral. Sofia is older than Russia's capital city and any churches they have.

This building is older than that. That's the answer. We shouldn't have any disputes. We have scientific evidence as we're just saying that our church should be free from any authorities. It's free for the people.

So one of the other questions that's been asked is about military mobilization. So, you know, obviously you're in the middle of a war. At the same time, there have been reports online that people are being picked up off the streets and in places in eastern Ukraine and recruited into services. How do you respond to accusations and videos like that? Every single case...

is scrutinized by the land forces, by the Ministry of Defense. They're the one responsible for the mobilization. And it can have a different attitude towards mobilization, but we have this mobilization from the beginning of the war. It's in accordance to the legislation, in accordance to the martial law period.

So the country is in a war. That is why we do have mobilization. We want the war to end. We want everything to end. We want to have a fair peace, calmness, and there would be nothing, not the mobilization, not the martial law. But as long as the war, as long as we have the law, there is the mobilization. That is why there were different aspects like...

someone suggested money, someone took money for going or not going to the army. There's different approaches or there are different cases, but we shouldn't be saying that this is the major phase or the main thing that describes Ukraine today. No, Ukraine has 800,000 right now or 600,000 people who volunteered

to go to the army. That was the law on mobilization, but the people were volunteering to go and defend Ukraine.

Definitely, there is, well, there's different people. And I think there's different people in every country. And the law enforcement personnel should be making sure that everything would be transparent. There would be no coercion or something. There are some kind of...

That's a fact. We shouldn't be hiding that like a corruption. But if we have anti-corruption bodies, there's the security service of Ukraine. If we are fighting with this on an everyday basis, well, of course, you can hide it.

like everything as in case of Russia or some European countries. But Ukraine clearly shows that it is fighting on a constant basis against aspects like that. But those are kind of singular cases. This is not massive. That's more important and that should be reducing on a daily basis we're doing that.

As we mentioned, we left Kyiv on Tuesday night. On Wednesday night, Kyiv was hit with one of the biggest missile barrages of the war. We've been checking in on many of the people we met in Ukraine to ensure that they are safe. We'll bring you any updates. That was part one of our interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday afternoon. Part two will continue on tomorrow's show. We'll get some more on this in a moment. First, according to a recent ZipRecruiter survey, 76% of employers plan to expand their headcount for 2025.

That's a lot of time spent hiring. So if you're the owner of a growing business, the way I am here at the daily wire, it's essential to find a platform that provides an efficient format that allows you to connect with several pre-screened interested applicants all at once to streamline that recruitment process. Luckily zip recruiter does just that. So,

If you are one of those employers who is ramping up hiring this year, do not miss out on this advice. Add ZipRecruiter's latest feature, Zip Intro, to your hiring plan. That lets you post jobs today and talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. Best of all, it does most of the work for you, so you save time. And right now, you can try ZipIntro for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash Daily Wire. ZipIntro gives you the power to quickly assess excellent candidates for your job via back-to-back video calls.

You simply pick a time. Zip Intro does all the work of finding and scheduling qualified candidates for you. And then you can choose who you want to talk to and meet with great people as soon as the very next day. Save time hiring for 2025 with new Zip Intro. Just go to ziprecruiter.com slash dailywire right now to try Zip Intro for free. Again, at ziprecruiter.com slash dailywire Zip Intro. Post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates.

tomorrow. Also, you know how most kids' vitamins out there are basically just candy with a vitamin label on them? They're loaded with a couple of teaspoons of sugar, artificial ingredients kids really don't need. This is where Haya comes in. They've created this amazing chewable vitamin that kids actually love. Best part? Zero sugar, but still totally delicious. Even the pickiest eaters would approve. What really impresses me is their ingredient list.

They've packed in 12 organic fruits and veggies plus 15 essential vitamins and minerals. We're talking vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, and more. All the good stuff that kids actually need to grow healthy. And they've thought of everything. It's non-GMO, vegan, allergen-free, thoroughly tested for safety, which means you and I can both feel confident giving our kids vitamins made to a high-quality standard. Are you tired of battling with your kids to eat their greens?

Well, Haya now has Kids Daily Greens and Superfoods, a chocolate-flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids. It's packed with more than 55 whole food ingredients to support brain power, development, digestion. Just scoop, shake, sip with milk or any non-dairy beverage for a delicious, nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. They even send stickers with your first order so your kids can decorate the bottle and make it their own. We've worked out a special deal with Haya for their best-selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off with your first order. To claim this deal, you have to go to hayahealth.com slash Shapiro. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to

H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash Shapiro. Get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Meanwhile, in other news, the Trump administration signed an excellent executive order yesterday to eliminate the use of so-called disparate impact liability.

Disparate impact liability is the idea that you can simply discern whether a branch of government or a company, for example, is racist based on the pure numbers of blacks versus whites who get a particular benefit. That if there's a disparate impact of a law or a policy, it must be that the law or the policy is racist. That, of course, is absurd. There are plenty of reasons for disparities in outcome that don't have to do with discrimination.

And so the White House, President Trump signed an executive order restoring equality of opportunity and meritocracy. That's the goal of it.

The executive order says,

preordained by irrelevant immutable characteristics, regardless of individual strengths, efforts, or achievement. A key tool of this movement is disparate impact liability, which holds that a near insurmountable presumption of unlawful discrimination exists where there are any differences in outcomes in certain circumstances among different races, sexes, or similar groups.

Even if there is no facially discriminatory policy or practice or discriminatory intent involved, and even if everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. This is a great, great move by the Trump administration. Should have been done long ago by Republicans going all the way back to Richard Nixon. Good for President Trump on that score. Again, one of the benefits of the Trump presidency, taking seriously DEI and destroying it. Really, really important stuff.

Meanwhile, the White House seems to be backing off some of its trade war with China. Again, the signals are really quite mixed. Sometimes they seem like they're saying they're going to back off some of the tariffs unilaterally. Sometimes they say they're going to be negotiating something with China. Again, I'm very much in favor of a trade war with China, as long as it is well thought out, as long as all the preconditions are there. President Trump yesterday said the goal is to have a fair deal with China.

Again, the White House is considering slashing the China tariffs in order to de-escalate the trade war, according to the Wall Street Journal.

President Trump hasn't made a final determination. One administration official said Trump wouldn't act unilaterally. He'd need to see some action from Beijing to lower tariffs. But this seems to be something the Trump administration is trying to back off of, considering the market impacts as well as the polling impacts. According to Pew, President Trump is down to 40% in the approval ratings. According to a Harvard Youth poll, his numbers have dropped precipitously with young people. Just under a third of young people currently approve of his job performance. A large part of that is tied to economic uncertainty.

White House spokesman Kush Desai said President Trump has been clear China needs to make a deal with the United States. When decisions on tariffs are made, they'll come directly from the president. Anything else is pure speculation. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson did tell reporters Trump has not offered to take down U.S. tariffs on China on a unilateral basis, so it may take longer than expected. However, here was Scott Besson laying out the idea that we do need trade partners. On this point, I wish to be clear. America first does not mean America alone.

To the contrary, it is a call for deeper collaboration and mutual respect among trade partners. Far from stepping back, America First seeks to expand U.S. leadership in international institutions like the IMF and the World Bank. By embracing a stronger leadership role, America First seeks to restore fairness to the international economic system.

Again, there is a very simple rule when it comes to the Trump administration's policy. Listen to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant and stop listening to other members of the administration. Besant knows what he's talking about. That is not true of Trade Advisor Peter Navarro. It's not true of some other members of the administration. Besant does have a good, solid view as to what the Trump administration is attempting to do, and he understands markets well enough to understand the best ways to achieve all of that. Every time Besant speaks, the market spikes, and there is a reason for that.

Presumably it was Bessington, his team who helped convince president Trump not to fire a federal reserve chair, Jerome Powell, or threatened to fire him. That was roiling markets. According to the Washington post,

President Trump's abrupt shift in rhetoric on Tuesday toward Jerome Powell reflected the private lobbying of some of his senior advisers would urge the president to back off his incendiary attacks on the central bank. And that is a good thing. Again, one of the things that's hilarious and amazing about what's going on economically speaking is that so much of it is just self-inflicted. If President Trump just stops doing some of these things, the economy goes back to something like normal. And if you're going to make major moves, you really do have to prep the ground for those major moves.

Meanwhile, by the way, Great Britain is saying that they're not going to alter their standards or rush a U.S. trade deal. So one of the problems here for President Trump is many of the people he's negotiating with are not actually on board with his trade war. And so they're kind of eager to watch the United States twist in the wind a little bit here. According to Rachel Reeves, the British chancellor of the Exchequer, she said that Britain will not rush into a trade deal with the United States or change its food or car safety standards.

She said she wanted to reduce trade barriers between Britain and other countries, but they're not going to rush to it, which again is because they now believe that they have President Trump a little bit over a barrel in terms of this trade war because the economy has been roiling thanks to the trade war. Okay, meanwhile, today marks Yom HaShoah, which is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

And Holocaust Remembrance Day was commemorated at Yale by throwing water bottles at Jews. So things were going really well over at Yale last night. The Yale anti-Israel encampments are back. The Tentafada is back. They set up in response to a visit by Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gavir, who is one of the furthest right ministers in the Israeli government.

Around 200 people calling for the university cutting of financial ties with Israel erected tents in Beinecke Plaza on the anniversary of the first encampment, according to the Jerusalem Post. And there they set up checkpoints for Jews on the evening of Holocaust Remembrance Day, which starts at night in Israel. Just wonderful, wonderful people. By the way, I'm glad they're doing this because this is an excellent excuse for the Trump administration's Office of Civil Rights, led by Harmeet Dhillon, to crack down on Yale and maybe start taxing its endowment or removing its federal funding.

Because if Yale refuses to do anything about, you know, like actually setting up checkpoints for Jews at the university, that is a violation of the Civil Rights Act in the same way it would be if whites set up a court to prevent black students from getting to certain parts of the campus. Here are these Yale protesters blocking Jews.

We will honor all our martyrs, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters, free Palestine.

I mean, I will say they're good at chanting like robots. That's exciting stuff. By the way, worth noting here, they're all masked. For those who can't see the footage, they are all masked using like N95s because they're some of the most pathetic people alive. All these people would be immediately tossed off the top of buildings in the Gaza Strip if Hamas had its way. Standing there and blocking Jews from getting to parts of campus on Holocaust. You know, good.

I mean, I guess good for them. They've got the courage of saying the thing out loud. By the way, where do you think those chants are coming from? We are mourning all our martyrs. Have you ever heard that sort of language from the left typically? Like if you're at a normal commie idiot rally, do they use the term martyrs? Or is that language that is coming directly from fans and allies of Hamas? There's only one group on planet Earth who talks like that, who speaks about martyrs in English like that.

And that would be radical Islamists. Most people do not speak like that, particularly not in the United States of America. And there was more footage of protesters blocking Jews and tossing water bottles at Jews and all the rest of it. The Jewish students saying they just want to walk through this part of campus and they're saying no. No!

Honestly, this is good news that I hope they continue to do this. And I hope that Yale gets absolutely clocked by the Trump Justice Department. I think that'd be an excellent and proper way to respond to the trash administration over at Yale. So I asked my friends and sponsors over at Perplexity just how big is Yale's endowment and also how much federal taxpayer money does Yale receive?

According to Perplexity, Yale University's endowment stood at $41.4 billion as of June 30th, 2024, making it the second largest university endowment in the United States, only behind Harvard's. They have plenty of money. So if they start losing taxpayer money, well, they can just deal with it because, you know what, violation of the Civil Rights Act, not okay, actually illegal. As far as federal funding, in fiscal year 2024, Yale received, wait for it, $898.7 million in federal funding.

Federal funding to Yale is significant, but it's actually not the leader. Pennsylvania, UPenn, received $1.8 billion. Columbia University, $1.3 billion. Harvard University, $686.5 million in the same period. So yeah, they're vulnerable and they should be held to account in the same way that Harvard is being held to account. I'm sure the Trump administration is very eager to put its actions on Harvard in practice with Yale as well. We'll get to more on this in a moment. First, anywhere worth going is worth going in a pair of awesome boots. Find your perfect pair with Tecova's.

The first time I put my Tecovas boots on, it was like they were already broken in, which makes sense because every single pair goes through over 200 meticulous steps of hand crafting. I used to think Western boots were just for cowboys. But since these folks started back in Texas in 2015, they've been changing that story. Whether you're a lifelong rancher or just looking for your first pair of Western boots, Tecovas makes it feel easy. I mean, look at me. Do I look like a cowboy to you? But I still wear Tecovas. You can wear them from sunup to sundown. They're built tough enough for long days, but stylish enough for a night out.

Again, you can wear them pretty much everywhere, super comfortable, and you don't have to be the kind of guy who can pull off a cowboy hat to make it happen. No matter your size or style, they've got the perfect boot waiting for you. Plus, with Tecovis' Best in the West guarantee, you get free returns and exchanges for 30 days. Pretty tough to beat. Right now, get 10% off at tecovis.com slash Shapiro when you sign up for email and texts. That's 10% off.

at T-E-C-O-V-A-S.com slash Shapiro. Takovas.com slash Shapiro. See site for details. Takovas, point your toes west. That's 10% off right now at Takovas.com slash Shapiro. Okay, folks, coming up, we're going to jump into the vaunted mailbag, but in order to watch, you have to be a member. If you're not a member, become a member. Use code Shapiro. Check out for two months free on all annual plans. Click that link in the description and join us.