My Husband Weaponizes Scripture to Control Me
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Big news. New dates for Money and Marriage Getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend 2026. Get tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee. How do I respond to my husband when he demands submission?

What? He's often used the Bible verses about wives submit to your husbands and everything to end our arguments. Yeah, it's like taking a Bible and hitting you in the mouth with it. I mean, this is an insane situation. Yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm glad you are with us. Trying to bring some sanity to our crazy relationships and...

challenges with our kids and our friends and our mental and emotional health in a world that has lost its mind. It's amazing to me. I'm reading headlines right now and I won't read them here because everybody will get all gastrointestinal distress, but it is wild in these streets. Let's go out to Indianapolis. I'm going to get myself fired and talk to Nicole. What's up, Nicole? What do you say? Hi, how are you? I could not be better. Doing great. How about you?

I'm all right. Thank you for talking to me. Of course. What's going on? So my question for you is, how do I respond to my husband when he demands submission? What?

Yeah. What does that mean? A little background, I guess. We've been married for almost three years. And since we've gotten married, he's often used the Bible verses about wives submit to your husbands and everything to end our arguments. My faith is really important to me. So it feels like a trump card has been played when he does this. And I just shut down. Yeah, it's like taking a Bible and hitting you in the mouth with it.

Yeah, exactly. And then blaming you for bleeding on the pages? Yeah, that's a good way to put it. All right, give me an example. So recently, I guess I brought up my need for a bit more contribution around the house. And this devolved into an hours-long argument where he ended up reading these verses to me off of his phone. Oh my gosh. And I don't know what else to do. What?

So you said, Hey, and by the way, let's, let's take away the word need. I think that's a way we can drown each other. You said, Hey, I want some help. And he said, like, do you have kids? I mean, what kind of help do you need? Or do you want? No kids, no kids, but that is another reason why I'm calling. That's definitely a hot topic at the moment. Um, but

I kind of feel like I do a bit more than my fair share, I guess. Well, you know, he's playing video games. And so I say, hey, can you vacuum or can you take out the trash? And the argument will devolve into, well, you can quit your job and then you won't have anything to complain about anymore. And then as arguments continue. Is this guy, is this for real? This is a real dude?

Yes. He pauses his video game to look over his shoulder at you and then grabs his phone and reads Bible verses about how you should submit to him? Yeah, and sometimes the video game isn't even paused. I wish I were joking. I literally am out of words. Yeah, I, oh my gosh. I mean, this isn't about me. How can I help? Well. I mean, this is an insane situation.

Yeah, I guess I won't speak about him necessarily, but I feel very dismissed. I'm feeling unvalued. Why? Just because he plays video games and hits you in the face with a Bible? And he doesn't help? You wash his underwear and you work full time? And you...

Why in the world would you feel dismissed? It feels like a gender game is being played a lot of the time. And I see there's certainly merit in that. We are meant to compliment each other. Hold on. No, no, no. Don't do that. Please don't do that. Okay. This is not a gender game. This is not a scripture game. Because the other part of that talks about die for your wife.

Put down the video game controller and help her while she melts in front of you. That is not a verse about you get a lifetime maid and sexual slave. That does not mean you win every argument about where you're going to go eat and what you're going to do with the kids and what your wife's hair is going to look like. At all.

That's such a disgusting, gross misrepresentation of what that talks about. It's abusive the way that's used. And here's why it's abusive. Because you're bound inside of a faith context, right? And you can't – you're not leaving that faith context. And so inside those walls, he's taking this Bible and he's beating you over the head with it and saying, you do what I say. While he's sitting there eating Cheetos, playing video games. I mean, I – geez, dude. It's like a –

This is one of those dudes that, like, when I'm talking to people out in the public sphere and we're having a good natured debater and not good natured debate, this is the guy they bring up and I say, that's not real. Nobody's like that. And you're like, no, no, no, I married him. I married him. He's, you know, there's obviously really wonderful qualities about him. He works extremely hard. He's very successful. But...

you know, that's great on paper until it comes time to talk about emotions and that can be really difficult. When I talk about emotions, we're talking about, hey, can we do life together? No, submit. Yeah. And then add in the whole pressure to have kids very soon. And I'm sure he's... I feel a bit stuck. Ripped off some Bible verses out of context to make you feel bad about that one too. Yeah. I don't know how you're going to feel stuck. I mean...

You get to choose what happens next. And I mean, here's the thing that's kind of freaking me out or grossing me out. I think I've been super fortunate and I've also curated it. No question about that. But I've been fortunate with the men I've just got, I just roomed with in college and the people I've grown up around and the people that I run with.

And so I live in kind of a bubble of pretty, not perfect men, kind of some dorks, kind of some buttholes, me too, but with good men. And that's on me that I don't, I need to get my head out of the sand and realize there's a lot more of this kind of nonsense going on out there.

It's a blessing, though. What is? Having good men around you? Yeah, it's awesome. Of course it is. It's amazing. But it paints, because here's the thing. I hear these stories, and my first gut instinct is that can't be real. And every woman's lived experience, not everyone, but so many women's lived experiences, it tells me I'm dead, dead, dead wrong.

And I guess I'd say on behalf of men everywhere, I'm so sorry. On behalf of guys who identify as Christian, I'm sorry. Well, thank you. It doesn't help you at all. Not even a little bit. And I don't want to put a bad label on it, of course, especially because that's a faith I subscribe to as well. I guess I'm looking for hope, I suppose. Where does this come from for him?

How does this distill down into an operation? He's got to learn this from something. Yeah. My thought is he had a very sort of traditional upbringing. I did too. Yeah. But my dad said, serve your wife. Maybe it wasn't so traditional. Yeah, I don't know. It's an upbringing that certainly insisted upon marriage.

mom and wife stay home and do what you're told while husband goes and makes the money. And that's sort of where that ends with his responsibility. So I think a lot of that has trickled down. It wasn't this way when we were dating. I was going to say, why'd you marry into this? Yeah, I suppose I thought he was different from his parents. You know, we'd had that conversation of what we want our marriage to look like. And I thought, okay,

He didn't want one like his parents and I didn't want one like my parents and we could forge our own path, but we, we fall into old habits, I suppose. Yeah. Um, are you safe? Physically safe? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Um, cause the next step is you being very, very clear with yourself and probably with a counselor, a couple of girlfriends on what, what will be true in your home for your body autonomy. Cause I also know this happens in the bedroom, um,

Um, and I know this happens in any other sphere that you don't feel comfortable talking about publicly, but I know. And, um, cause this isn't, this is a radically abusive, distorted view of all sorts of good things, um, used to wield power. And it just makes me sick to my stomach, dude. Um, but you need to be very clear about here's how this is going to go. And then he gets a choice to opt in or opt out. Hmm.

And I guess what I'm telling you is if, if you're telling me this is what he knows, like, does he have guy friends? What does he listen to? Like, where does this continue on? Um, I think a lot of the media he consumes very much, uh, encourages his worldview. So who, what does he consume? Uh, certain podcasts that I'm learning the word manosphere. Oh God. Is he an Andrew Tate guy?

Uh, I, he, I don't think that's the specific person he listens to, but certainly guys like him. I think it's got a big influence on how the culture in our home at the moment. So if he was bringing pornography into the house and letting that be instructive as to how you were going to react to it, I mean, how are you going to respond to him sexually? Would you put up with that? No. Okay. I want you to view this kind of poison and garbage the exact same way. Hmm.

I hadn't thought of it like that. And I guess if nothing else on this phone call, I want you to feel permission, as long as you're safe. If you're not safe, please, please go somewhere where you're safe physically, okay? Mm-hmm. Yeah. To reclaim your autonomy. I'm sorry. Did you grow up with some of this nonsense too? No. Maybe that's why I'm, you know, I've allowed some of it to really sit with me and confuse me. Well, a very, very common thing when I used to sit down with assault victims is,

was, it was a almost, as I would ask questions as part of an investigation, what happened, it was a digesting. It was like a slow metabolizing of, oh my gosh, I am now in this category. Like I am now a person that this is happening to. And our bodies are so amazing at helping us get distance from wild types of pain, both emotional and psychological and physical. It helps us like make space. You get what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah. And it's hard when the space begins to shrink and you realize, oh, this is my life. Yeah. It's just sort of a how did it come to this? How did everything change so quickly? I know. And you sound like somebody who's looked to the mirror and tried to figure out what you did wrong here. And you just got to hear me say, dude, this is madness. It's madness. It helps to hear somebody else say it. It makes you feel a little less alone. So thank you. I mean, listen to the other like bro guys out there.

Do you know the word like behind closed doors? The word on the street with Rogan is that he's one of the greatest husbands ever. You ever heard some of those goofballs talk about their like, I'm just thinking of like the guys with huge podcasts who are all like, you know, like real raunchy dudes. They're so insane about how much they love their wives and how they dedicate their lives to try. Like they tell jokes about them and they're in a problem, but it's this can not do anything other than I want to provide the most insane life for my wife. Yeah.

Wow. You ever heard Dave Ramsey talk about his wife? It's amazing. Mm-hmm. That's how I found you. People talk about me and my wife. I mean, it's just... Mm-hmm. It's such a great... Like, you're blowing my mind right now. And you shouldn't. This kind of nonsense is still out there. And I thought this crap... I'm sorry. I'm just sorry. I'm sorry. No, don't be sorry. No. And it...

I hate it for you. I was scared to call, but I think if anybody else is out there, you know, maybe they can hear something like this and feel a little less alone. What's your next move? Well, probably get on my knees and pray. Yeah. I'm being honest and call a girlfriend. Okay. And then what? And just be honest. I don't know. After that, I don't know. Okay. I need you to hear me say you have a very hard road ahead of you.

And this is a choose your hard moment. It's going to be very, very hard to continue living the life where you are somebody else's servant. There's no care in the world about your feelings, your emotions, your dreams, your wants, your partnership. Yeah. You are a maid, you're a sexual servant, and you are a child dispenser. That's going to be a very hard life. And it will be very hard to untangle yourself from this madness too.

Yeah. So the, like knowing there's only hard paths ahead of me. You're right. Ahead of you. It's not a matter of there's an easy route out of this thing. It's just too hard path. And so whenever somebody's faced with a choose your hard moment, my recommendation is to pick the hard path that will get you to the place that you want to be in five years, in three years. That's good advice.

Thank you. Just hear me say, there's good guys out there. There's tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of them. I promise you, I know them. I believe you. And I know I'm going to be okay. I think just feeling a little bit like I've got somebody to walk with me has been helpful, even just for a few minutes. So I really appreciate it. Can I ask one more quick question and then I'll let you go? Of course. Of course.

And this is only, I'll edit this part out if you want me to. This is only because I've sat with too many people who have been on the other side of this thing before. For 20 years, I've done this. I can hear your voice starting to inch backwards a little bit. Like there's a fear that I've said too much and I'm not safe anymore. Are you okay? I'm okay. Just a little shaken, I think. Okay. Thank you. What you did is a brave thing. When you hang up with me, will you call somebody that you trust and say, I need to come over and talk to you right now?

I'm going to do that. Yeah. You promise? Sorry. Yes, promise. Okay. Hey, don't ever apologize to me. I'm just a clown on the radio, dude, on the podcast. You're a very helpful clown. I want you to listen to that lump in your throat, okay? It sounds like you're hanging on with duct tape right now. Are you sure you're okay? Yes, I'm okay. Thank you. I'm going to trust you. Will you call me anytime? All right. Bye, love. All right. Thanks. Love you. Bye-bye. Kelly. I don't have any kind words to say right now.

For those of you listening, if you want to hear what fear and terror sounds like, it sounds like that woman's voice. And I can feel it. My wife told me back when I was in college that when she would grab my arm and take me out of a situation because I started getting a little, like my mouth does a weird thing and I can feel it doing it right now. Let's go to commercial. We'll be right back.

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Well, I was hoping that you can give me some advice or some guidance on how I can overcome the guilt and shame that I live with on a fairly daily basis for conceiving my son in a one-night stand. Where's the shame and guilt coming from?

I think it comes from a couple different places. So, brief backstory. I'm a woman of faith, and at the end of 2022, I came out of a very verbally and emotionally abusive divorce.

I was in just a very bad place emotionally, mentally. Within a few months of that divorce and becoming final, I...

was going through probably the worst, like, soul-crushing loneliness I've ever experienced in my life. I had no sense of self-worth. I just was in a really bad place. And I started making some decisions that I would never have normally made. I started seeking to fill that loneliness and just making some bad decisions when it came to...

one night stands and it didn't last very long. And I just didn't feel like myself, didn't want any part of doing this anymore and stopped completely. But before I could begin any sort of healing from the trauma that I'd been through, I found out I was pregnant. And

So from day one of conception, I've been a single mom. And it began, you know, that nine-month journey of...

the daily reminder of what I had done, walking out of my house every day, feeling like I had a giant scarlet letter A on my forehead, you know, having to walk into church as a single woman every Sunday with a belly that was getting bigger. Like, there was very much that side of guilt and shame. And then on the other side as well, I don't have, I'm not giving him the life that I

I would want it to have given my son. Being in the single mom position that I am and, you know, we share a little one-bedroom apartment and I work, you know, two and three jobs to keep him in school. And he's the most precious thing I have. And I'm just struggling with how to break through that guilt and shame. Have you ever heard me lie to somebody on this show?

Never. I'm not going to start now. Okay. You're a real good mom. Actually, you're an unbelievable mom. This knuckleheaded little boy, how old is he? He's one and a half now. Is he just a human hurricane? Is he just chaos? Actually, he's...

Oh, is he one of those sweet kids? It's kind of awesome. He's the sweetest little boy I could have ever asked for. He helped me unload the dishwasher. He takes out his own trash. He puts his own laundry away. I mean, he's just the best little boy I could have asked for. Okay. You're a good mom. Did you draw it up this way? No. Were you trying to navigate your way through hell? Yeah.

Did you do some things that were out of character for you, out of alignment with your values? Yeah. Do you have like an extraordinary miracle? Yep. Yeah. I'm curious, when you were going to church and you were pregnant, did people look down their nose at you or did they welcome you and say, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you're here? They were extremely welcoming. Okay. Then here's what I want you to do when you can't hold your arms up in the desert, when your arms are tired.

That's pretty amorphous. That's an old Bible story. When you look and glance by yourself in the mirror and you look tired, how old are you? I'm 35. Okay. You're tired. This isn't how you drew this up. Yeah. And you have a little kid in the other room. And if you're one bedroom apartment and you don't believe you're worth very much, I want you to remember my voice. I want you to remember the welcoming voices and smiles and hugs of the people at your local church.

I want you to remember those voices. Okay? Okay. I'm just so afraid that I'm going to accidentally or unintentionally give him some kind of impression when he's older.

that he was a mistake and I don't ever, ever want him to feel that way. So I'm trying hard in this season of my life to overcome that so that I don't ever... Here's how you do it. You want to hear it? It's really simple. Every morning and every night, hold his face, put your hands on his face. Okay? And by the way, it regulates a kid's nervous system. It down regulates it. It lets their nervous system know that they're safe in this particular moment. Okay? Okay.

Okay. Put your hands on his face and say, I'm so glad that God picked me to be your mommy. I can do that. Every morning and every night. And one day soon he's going to say, where's my dad? You're going to have to have that conversation. Where is his dad, by the way? He is aware he has a son. At this time, he is not...

wanting to be a part of his life. Okay. Have you taken him to court for money? He does pay child support, yeah. Okay. So we're going to honestly, when the kid asks, we'll say, Dad's really sick and he's not able to come home right now. Actually, we're not going to say that. We're going to say, Daddy's really sick and he's choosing to not come to the house right now so that he doesn't get the rest of us sick. And I will say that with full integrity because to not want to be in the life of your son is very ill. Okay.

Yeah, that's been a conversation I've been anticipating and trying to prepare myself for. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Just don't ever lie. No, no. Because he won't be able to process that mommy's a liar. And don't ever talk bad because half of him is that guy. Right. And there will come a day, hopefully, that he loops back around, okay? Maybe not, but hopefully. Right. And at some point, he'll learn how babies are made, and you'll tell him.

And then he'll say, oh, is that how I was made? And you'll say yes. And you have a bunch of religious contacts. You've got a bunch of personal baggage. You've got all these other things. He doesn't have any of that. Right. He will know every night, despite his questions, that he has loved the moon and back because every single morning his mom puts her hand on his face. And by the way, as he gets older, he'll get squirmy and be like, mom, and be like, nope, I'm saying it. Okay. Okay.

And we're not going to shy away from hard questions. We're going to head right through them because he will feel unanchored. You're right. It's going to be hard. You're right. And he's not going to have to also wonder if my mom told me the truth. All those things are true. But if you start holding your breath now for a hard conversation that may come a year or two years, five years from now, what you're going to do is you're not going to prevent that hard conversation. You're just going to rob yourself of the joy in the present moment that you live right now. That's true.

So when he starts asking questions, let him have a bank of months and years of laughter and joy. Yeah, I do feel like I've been robbing myself at least of moments that...

such as my pregnancy, I mean, I can't look back on it and say that any of it was joyful when it should have been because I just, I let the guilt and the shame consume me so much. It's kind of like you fell out of a boat in the middle of the ocean and you finally got back to shore and you're really mad that your breaststroke wasn't great. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. That's the analogy. Like, don't critique your swimming. You made it to shore. Here you are. And you ended up on a shore you didn't want to be on, but you're at shore. And you got this amazing little boy. He is amazing. And your healing will come from choosing every time those voice pops in your head, I want you to have a tiny picture. I want you to go get one printed at Walgreens, a little picture of him. Not on your phone, but a real picture. And I want you to put it in your pocket.

And every time that voice pops in your head of nobody's going to want to marry me now. I can't believe I slept with this dude on like, you know, in the back of a car after I can't believe I went up to his apartment. I can't believe I want you to pull that picture out and say, and I got you. And what we're going to slowly do over time is you are going to change your default setting to I'm defined by doing something that was in violation of my own values to I'm a great mom.

And when he's 14 or 12 or 11 or 16, he'll be like, was I an accident? And you can laugh because you'll have 15 years or 10 years or nine years of relationship. And you can be like, I didn't plan you. But God did. I'm glad you're here. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yep. So I will end this call with one last statement. You are a great mom.

Thank you. And the months and years of two jobs and only seeing him for a few minutes in the morning and an hour in the evening, those will come to an end. You're in a crappy season right now. Okay? Yeah. Here's what I'm going to send you, okay? I'm going to send you a couple. I'm going to load you up, all right? You ready? Okay. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University, the digital classes, all for free. All nine lessons, I want you to watch them. I want you to start doing it, okay? Okay.

Okay. I'm going to send you Total Money Makeover for free, the book. I want you to read that. Single moms working two or three jobs trying to figure out daycare and school. Money is a mess, okay? And it's a tool and a path. I'm also going to send you my buddy Ken Coleman's book, Work You're Wired to Do. And I want you to start thinking about life after two jobs. Yeah. Okay? That'd be great. Thank you so much. What's a career? I'm not finished. I'm also going to send you Building a Non-Anxious Life, okay? Okay.

Okay. And I'm going to send you all of the questions for humans, parents, and kids cards. Okay. So when y'all are sitting at a little diner sharing a cheeseburger, because that's all you can afford right now, you can pull a couple of those question cards out. Okay. Okay? I'm going to do that. And I know he's only 15 months old. He can't even talk that well, but it'll be fun to babble.

He's only just finally started saying mama. Okay. Well, then take those cards and just put them in the drawer for a while. I'm way ahead of myself. Here's what I'm trying to communicate. You're not by yourself, okay? Thank you. I appreciate that. Cool. Yes, sir. Thank you. Call anytime, okay? Hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up with this stuff. Thank you. Sheesh, you're awesome. All right. When we come back, a caller updates us on her relationship with her late friend's husband. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back. All right, Kelly, this is a follow-up call from someone who previously called. Fill me in. Right, so Stephanie called a little while back, just a month or so ago, and she had gone through a divorce, and her best friend had passed away, and she and the best friend's husband were starting to kind of dip their toe in the water of a relationship and deciding how to move forward.

Okay. So now she's calling us with an update on how things are going. Okay. Awesome. All right. Let's go out to Stephanie in here in Franklin, Tennessee. What's up, Stephanie? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good. Are you calling me back? Cause I gave you horrible advice last time.

No, you gave incredible advice, actually. All right, good. Phew. All right. So how are you doing? So I was doing really, really well till Easter. Okay. What happened at Easter?

And so we met right after, like a couple days after I called you, and it was wonderful. Oh, you and this guy. You and your late friend's ex-husband. I don't know if you call him ex, but her. Okay. All right. So you all met in person. We met in person, and we had talked even before meeting that he...

He was very much wanting to be in a relationship. And we had talked a lot about, you know, are you sure you're ready? It hasn't been a year yet. And he had already decided before we started talking that he was ready to move to a different location. He was ready just to kind of start life over, fresh start kind of thing. And so for him, when we started talking, everything kind of started falling into place.

And I was very hesitant because even when we lived in the same area and our families would do stuff together, I never really considered him a friend just because I didn't talk to him very much. So...

Anyhow, we met and the first 15 minutes were so awkward. Like, it was so funny. We laughed so much because we just put it all on the table, like you said. And it was like, well, the last time we saw each other, we were both married. And, you know, it was just it was it was fun. But so.

Behavior was consistent. Talking was consistent. And I decided I really did want to be in a relationship with this guy. Incredible man. I know. Did y'all kiss? Gross. We so kissed. Yes, we kissed. I'm going to stop right there. I've got so many more questions. But all right. So keep going. So y'all are in it to win it now.

Yes, and he started looking for jobs in the middle Tennessee area and wanting to move here. We told the kids that went better than expected, still hard, but better than expected, very much moving forward. And then Easter happened and everything changed.

What happened? Wow.

And I had told him when we first started talking, like if we get in a relationship, one thing I am so scared of is the rug being pulled out from under me because it's been so many times. And so when he stopped talking, that's how I felt and reached out to a couple mentors. We talked and they said, you know, the anniversary of her death hasn't even happened. It's coming up. It's

awful. It's on Mother's Day of all days this year. And just back off, give him some space. So I did. I reached out to him one last time. I said, you know, I'm just going to give you space to grieve right now. I'm here. I love you. I want to help you. You're already saying I love you? Oh, yeah. Damn, Gina. All right. So hold on. Yeah. So

Did he cut you off completely and just ghost you? Or did he start saying things like, hey, I'm really struggling with my ex. I'm grieving. Or did he just stop responding to anything? He stopped responding. So you even saying, hey, I want to grieve. I know you're grieving. You were just fishing. You were just guessing.

Yes, exactly. Because he didn't really address it. And so on Wednesday, so what, four days later, he sent a voice message and said, you know, thank you for giving me some space. It's actually been a much easier week than I thought. I've gotten lots of rest, spent time with the kids.

And I was like, okay. And I sent a voice message back. That's wonderful. I'm glad that's happening. I'm praying for you. You're an incredible dad. I'm so proud of you. I love you. I'm here. Didn't really hear anything again until Saturday morning when he sent a voice message again. And he said, you know, I've been talking with the kids. They don't want to move. I'm

I'm realizing all the feelings I had for my wife are still very strong. I've really enjoyed time with you. And that's kind of it. Like, thank you for, I know this week has been hard on you. Thank you for your prayers. That's it. So I texted him back and I said, I'm very confused right now. Can you please clarify what you meant by that?

And it's Wednesday afternoon. I haven't heard a single thing. So what I'm wondering... You're wondering, right? He just broke up with you. That's what that is. So this isn't grief. No, it's not grief. No, no, no. And he did it in a very cowardly way via voice text. Yeah. I'm sorry.

That's what I was afraid of. I'm sorry. I was holding on to hope that once the anniversary is passed, that he would start to see through the mist and realize she isn't coming back. He's ready to move on. No, it's not that. I mean, he told you this has actually been a pretty good week. I think he was telling you, I'm not really grieving. I'm doing okay. Oh, okay. Well, that's... Hold on. Don't just run quiet. It's heartbreaking.

I'll sit here with you for a second. I hate it. Yeah, it really, really hurts. Yeah. Because I let myself, how I feel right now is like, and I know it's only been four months, but he built this home for me. And he put me inside of it and said, you're loved, you're safe here. And then he set it on fire and walked away. And I have to clean it all up. Yeah.

But I was hoping this whole time I was wrong. Yeah. There's another way to look at it. Could you hear another way to look at it? Or are you hurting pretty bad right now? No, I can hear. It might also be that he built a house, invited you in, and you all had a great four months. And in his own awkward, cowardly way, he said, hey, I'm going to be done now. But nothing's on fire. You're sad. Your heart's broken.

But you may have proved to yourself that you can love again. You may have proven to yourself that you're a little bit stronger and more courageous and brave than you thought you were. You may have been affirmed that, yeah, I'm a good kisser. Maybe. Maybe not. Oh, yeah. No. Sorry, I'm trying to laugh here. No, no, no. Do whatever you want. But I'm just saying, like, I don't want you in the pain of a heartbreak to just burn the whole thing down because...

even just you retelling it just now it sounds like there was some good in there and if you found out that he was sleeping with somebody else who's actually married and then yes he burned the whole thing down but i don't want to beat somebody up for giving it a go for four months and just saying like i just you're just not the one for me moving forward or maybe you're not the one for me right now it's hard to hear but i don't want to be somebody up for that you know what i mean

No, that's fair. I just wish he'd been more direct. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a very cowardly way to end it for real. It reminds me of one of my students that walked inside one time with the head, one of my graduate students that had, that was told via text message. They were, that his spouse was divorcing and it was like, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what are you talking about? But yeah, it, no matter what kind of throws of grief you are in, um, the person that you're exclusive with is worth a phone call.

Hey, this is coming up on the week anniversary of our mutual, my wife and your best friend, her passing. I just need a week. This is a lot for me right now. Right? I need two weeks. I need 30 days. Like, whatever. Like, you don't just starve somebody of relationship. Like, that's just cruel. Yeah. You especially don't break up with somebody via voice text. Come on. You know what I mean? And also, I want to give some compassion. It's the week his wife of her anniversary and probably her kids, his kids are giving him hell and who knows what's going on.

Exactly. And that's, I mean, I can't imagine what they're going through. And so my heart's breaking for them on that front as well. And I don't know, it's just hard being, getting to be so close to someone and walking through that grief with them. Cause that's how our whole friendship started really. And then to be, you know, when the rubber really hits the road, I'm just shoved off to the side.

Not even really an afterthought. Maybe. He may not be able to sleep right now. Again, all these are stories you're telling yourself. And you can tell yourself stories that make you mad and keep you up late at night. You can tell yourself stories that help you sleep. But just remember, because he's absent, because he's quiet, you get to be the author of the stories you tell yourself. And because of that, I would choose to tell myself the most compassionate version of the stories. That way, I don't get an aneurysm on somebody else's behalf. Mm-hmm.

And should I give him a little bit, like if he were to reach out in three or four weeks, should I kind of leave my heart open a little bit for that? Or should I just... I mean, me and my wife broke up five times. So, I mean, that's just me. And that's not everybody. And we've been together for a quarter century. So, I mean, that's just, I mean, I don't know if it's a matter of should I keep my... I want to live my life wholehearted all the time. Mm-hmm.

And that means I'm going to have some above average, wild, fantastic, amazing experiences. And that means I'm going to get hurt more than the average person. And when I do get hurt, it's going to hurt real bad. That's just a choice I have made because I'm a normally closed off kind of guy. And I realized I'm missing out. I'm not protecting myself from bad stuff, but I am missing out on the good stuff. I just want to live like that.

Exactly. And so in four months, let's be honest, if you get a voice message from him and he says, I'm the worst, can we talk tonight? Your heart will race out of your chest. Right? And you might be dating somebody. You might be dating somebody else.

Somebody with a mustache who's way hotter. I'm just kidding. I don't know if you have a mustache. But like you may be or you may not have your heart may not beat out of your chest at all. And you may realize, oh, that was just a highly charged emotional four months that was kind of awesome and heartbreaking. And now I'm on to the rest of my life. So I wouldn't prejudge or pre-guess what's going to happen. I would let your gut and your heart be your guide in four months or two months, whatever. I'm almost guaranteeing you he's going to call you at some point.

Because I think if he was a person that lacked so much integrity and character to just completely ghost you via voice text forever, I think you would have known that on the front end. And that's the thing. Like I knew enough from his life that he's an incredible man. Yeah, exactly. And yeah. And so that's part of why this is just so completely just confusing. This is going to shock you. Okay. And this is like really recent data. Yeah.

Um, some men don't know how to handle their emotions very well. Yeah. It's rare. It's rare. But I'm trying to imagine somebody who has fallen in love with his wife, his deceased wife's best friend.

Got into making out and the whole shebang and his kids are sobbing saying how dare you dad you're abandoning us You left us you're gonna move what you're gonna be a terrible granddad Plus he's getting all these texts from people who put a little asterisk on their calendar Like so sorry about janet or whatever your friend's name was like that's just a lot In his own fun if you if if what you know of him over the last two five ten twenty years is that he's a good man Then the story you get to tell yourself is

He's a big, tall, proud man that stood up and found himself completely underwater. And I'm going to tell myself that story because that's the most compassionate version I get to. And that's going to let my heart rate not get up too high. And I'm going to go about my day with my heart broken because I wish he was still calling me. Or we've had a lot of conversations about grief. I wish he would grieve with me too. Because by the way, this is your one-year anniversary also.

Yes, it is. Yeah, we're a day apart. Okay, so make sure you write... No, you lost your friend a year ago, right? No, I did, but my divorce was finalized the day before she died. But I'm saying... Yeah, everything. All of it. Yeah. So I want you to write her a one-year letter. That's a good idea. And tell her you made out with her husband. Yeah. But write her a one-year letter. Don't tell her that. Leave that out of the letter. That'd just be weird. Yeah.

But I want you to mark this moment for yourself too. It's a big, it's a big moment for you as well. Okay. That's a good idea. And call a couple of girlfriends and be truly breakup sad. And when somebody breaks your heart or they don't call you back or they say, Hey, it's just not a good time. Or I really gave it a run and you're just not my person. There is no other feeling to feel other than heartbroken and sad. And that's not a bad feeling. I mean, it's a bad feeling. It feels bad, but it's not a wrong feeling. It's not a,

It doesn't mean something's wrong with you. It means your heart is ticking and your life is full and you're living full-hearted and wholehearted. And, well, son of a gun, he broke my heart. That's what that means. Stephanie, call me anytime. You're one of my favorites. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, while the world seems like it's falling apart...

We're all under pressure to perform and we're all under pressure to perform and look like we're keeping it all together at the same time. And we all know that support is good, but we're not even allowed to ask for it. Women are often told that they have to be everything to everyone all of the time. And somehow they have to just intuitively know how to do it all. And men are often told they are the reason for every bad thing in the world.

and that asking for help means they are weak or less than. Here's a wild statistic. 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems, yet 6 out of 10 people still believe that society discourages asking for help. Listen to me carefully.

Real strength comes from opening up about what you're carrying and then doing something about it so that you can be your best self for you and for everyone else in your life. If you're feeling like the weight of the world is starting to bury you, talk to someone, anyone,

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Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Delaunay to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. All right, we're back. Let's take one of the anonymous money marriage questions from the Money and Marriage Weekend. Here's a question. How do we or should we tell our kids about a transformational event that occurred in my life, which included me being sentenced to jail?

There's not enough information here. I guess I'll go back to my core principles. Number one, never lie to your kids. Number two, as my buddy Rachel says, share don't scare. So you're not going to want to tell a seven-year-old, dude, guess what happened? Your dad murdered somebody one time and got sentenced to jail. I don't know what this transformational event is. I don't know if it's abuse. I don't know if it is you were protecting somebody and you knocked their teeth out and you went to jail for it. I don't know what this transformational event is. So I need way more context here.

Here's what will happen. Your kids at some point will chat GPT and or Google you. They will find out that you went to jail, period. They will find that out. Or one of their friends will find that out, and then they will tell them. That's happening. That's coming. So if there's a big family secret, I recommend they hear it from you in doses that they can handle at ages that they can handle it. Yeah, that's what I'll say. I don't want to beat that to death. We'll call that is what it is. Yeah.

Tell your kids the truth. Don't overshare, but secrets will make their way to the surface in family systems. They always do. Love you guys. Bye.