Brian Jordan Alvarez on “English Teacher”
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Listener supported. WNYC Studios. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. It is a very rough time to be in school. As a teacher or as a student, you're in the crossfire of the culture wars with book bans, the movement for parental rights and much more.

There's the fight over cell phones, with half the states now restricting them. And budgets, of course, are always being slashed. Somehow, all of that chaos makes schools fertile ground for comedy. There's Abbott Elementary, which has won a handful of Emmy Awards, and debuting this season is English Teacher. It stars Brian Jordan Alvarez, who created the show for FX.

Alvarez has been an actor for many years, but he quite suddenly burst into fame on TikTok. A year ago, he posted a video that exploded. Everybody was suddenly talking about Brian Jordan Alvarez, including our staff writer, Vincent Cunningham. Like perhaps many listeners first heard of Brian Jordan Alvarez on TikTok, where he plays Alvarez.

a panoply of characters. And one of them, perhaps most famously, is named TJ Mack, a man who loves to get deals at such places as TJ Mack's. And he sings a song that goes like, ♪ Sit in, sit in is the opposite of standing. ♪ ♪ Sit in, sit in is the opposite of standing. ♪ ♪ Sit in is the opposite of running around. ♪ ♪ Sit in is a wonderful thing to do because you sit in. ♪

I don't know. It's a song about sitting. It's a song about the benefits of sitting as opposed to, say, standing. It's a silly song, and this is a lot of what

Jordan Alvarez is known for before he created the FX show English Teacher, which is about an English teacher named Evan who teaches in Austin, Texas. And without getting too sappy or didactic or sort of preachy about it, he navigates this

cultural stuff with the kind of humor that only Brian Jordan Alvarez could pull off. Wait, her kid, that kid graduated. He's in college now. Why is she doing this now? I don't know. Why does anybody do anything? Linda Harrison. I remember that name. That's the mom that complained about the assigned reading. Lewd content, yeah. Lewd content, right? And do you remember what the book was that she said was lewd? The Great Gatsby. The Great Gatsby.

I do want to know a bit about why you chose this milieu as the place to set this show. But where did you fit in at school? Were you already performing? I sort of famously call myself an A-minus student, which meant I had what it took to be an A-plus student, but I preferred a lower effort, more joyful life. So I was required. Basically, my parents, my mom is Colombian and my dad's American, and they were just very... They were...

They just made it not an option that me and my sister had to get A's. But by the time I was in high school, to me, that meant A minuses were fine. So I got A minuses. I had a theater teacher at USC named Brent Blair. And he talked about something that was for theater, like how to use your voice in theater. And I think it was...

It was maximum effect, minimum effort, right? Which is obvious. That's sort of just efficiency. Don't push. And so I was that kind of a student. I was an A-minus student. I had the maximum effect with the minimum effort. Well, what's interesting, again, about the setting of English teacher, it's like in a red state, there is this triangle of a relationship. It's you...

There's the kids, but then also the parents who are like understood to be more conservative than anybody who really ever shows up on the show. I wonder what that setting does for you in terms of especially kids.

putting forward a different kind of representation of gay life. Weirdly, like, we see relationships under real pressure that we don't usually see when we see, like, you know, gay couples maybe in coastal situations or whatever. It's like a different... Right, right. There's a whole different setup. Yeah, to me, it's part of what always interested me about this idea and this setting was, like, well...

This character, Evan, he wants to be, and is in so many ways, essentially an out, proud gay guy. But how does that feel in this school with all these different forces coming at him, basically? I think just a lot of that friction I did absorb from growing up in a very rural town in Tennessee. And that was essentially...

You know, it was what you think it is. It was not a super liberal environment by any means. You know, you learn like, you're sort of negotiating sometimes how much can I be myself right now, basically. I mean, is there a corollary there to what it's like to sort of modulate versions and visions of yourself in Hollywood? Like, do you find yourself doing that occupationally too? Yeah.

I mean, you've carved out such a space of your own online, and we'll talk about that later, but I just wonder whether that has been a negotiation for you as a performer and a writer. I'd like to think it has not been like that for me, no. I think it's sort of a joke, but it's also true. I didn't know...

That you could just stay in the closet professionally, but be out personally. Do you know what I'm saying? There are these people that are- You mean the whole history of cinema? Yeah, I guess. But I thought when somebody was in the closet in Hollywood that-

It meant they were in the closet to everyone except for their best friend and their mom or something, you know? I didn't know that their whole friend group and everybody knew they were gay, but just publicly facing... Just don't say it in People Magazine. Right, exactly. And when I found out, it was like when I would see people that I had known were gay...

And I thought they were just broadly out. But then later you see a thing where they're like, I'm coming out of the closet. And you're like, out of the closet? I thought... So anyway, I joke about that because in a way I benefited from not realizing that that was an option. Not that I would have chosen to do that, but I...

I was just always like, yeah, I'm gay. I don't know. I don't. And, and I just, in a way it's, it's sometimes it's part of my work. Sometimes it's not in this show, the way this show came to me in my mind when I was writing it, it ends up being about that and about, and you know, it's not, I, it's definitely not only a show about being gay in the world. Right. Not close to it. But, but that is a big, that is one of the subjects. And I,

you know, Evan, who is at the center of the show, is gay. And sometimes we're looking at that and talking about that, and a lot of the time we're not. And I love having the freedom to make all the jokes that come out of that, too, you know? So, yeah, that's something I liked about that, too. Let me play you, if you will, a clip from the first episode. Evan, your character, is talking to his students in a way that's really fun, but also may take us some other places. How?

How do you know that? Come on, everybody knows this. You kissed your little boyfriend in front of the students. Well, whatever I did or didn't do, I'm not going to talk about it with you guys, okay? Just claim that they're attacking you because you're Hispanic and they have, like, a racist agenda. Yeah, but that has nothing to do with it. Hispanic would never work anyway because they can do, like, one of those DNA tests and disprove it. Oh, my God, Becca, he is Hispanic. In what way? His mom's from Colombia. That's not Hispanic. Hispanic means Mexican.

I'm calling the cops. You're bullying me. You're bullying me because I told you not to talk to me. Look, Mr. Marquez, you're gay, you're Hispanic. This is a slam dunk here. I'm telling you, gay doesn't count anymore and he talks like a straight white guy. I think your voice is a little gay. Actually, really gay. Oh, thanks.

So funny. And also, like, you know, to your point, this show is very much not all about identity, but it is on some level about, like, how we perform ourselves in different sort of ways.

different levels of public or different sort of faces to the world. I did wonder, that cut so hard to me. I was like, is that something that you've dealt with in your career of like, is this guy Latino or is he a white guy? Like, is that something that you've also been like? I haven't dealt with it directly, but I imagine behind the scenes people have asked that question. They've been like, well, his mom is Colombian. Okay. You know, what is that? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

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Visit justinwine.com and enter Radio 20 for 20% off your order. Speaking of relationships, and this is another really great part of the show, is one of the central sort of facets of the show is the relationship between Evan and another teacher at the school who's played by Stephanie Koenig. And I know you guys have been collaborators for many years. How did you guys meet?

We were like hired actors on a student film that UC Santa Barbara was making. But simply put, the first night I met her, I could not believe how funny she was. I was like, did someone beam you in from outer space? I remember there was a moment when she said like,

And I was like, do I have room in my life for a friend? And I was like, no. For you, you're the funniest person I've ever met. You know, the kids this year, I feel like they're less woke. Did you notice that? They're not into being woke anymore. It's circled back and forth. It's circled all the way around. And now they're like for what they say they're against. Right. And they're saying the R word again. Like you have that kid. What was he saying about the Spanish Inquisition? I had to teach both sides of the Spanish Inquisition. It's so insane.

And I have these kids that are showing me AI porn of Oscar Wilde having sex with women. He was gay. I am interested in the sort of shape of your career, the way that you have...

As you mentioned, made shorts, made YouTube videos. I am a fan of a song that starts with, sit in. Tell me about that. Was the ethos always, hey, I'm not going to wait for somebody to make something with me. I'm going to make my own things. What was the impetus for all of your stuff that people know you from online? Yeah.

It was pretty organic. I mean, there's like two levels to it. There's the level on which I didn't really have any connections. So I just had to start getting my stuff out there in any way I could. And on a basic level, I have a ton of creative energy and I just have to use it. And what's funny is I've even had times when I go, Brian,

We're not going to make stuff anymore. We're just going to audition and just act and just get roles and things like to try to focus the energy a bit. You have to lecture yourself in this way. Yeah, because acting is the main thing for me. That's the driving force. That's the horse that pulls the cart. More than writing, more than directing, more than anything. It's acting. I consider myself an actor first.

And that's my first love, you know? But I just am a creative and a writer and a director and all these things. They're just in my bones. They're in my blood. You know, I was making, I was editing movies that I would shoot with my friends on my mom's iMac when I was like 12. You know, those jewel colored iMacs. I know them well with the little handle on the top. Yeah, the best.

It's a much different process than writing a joke one month and then many months later seeing it on TV. Did you learn anything or what did you learn? I'm sure you must have learned. Patience. I learned patience. But about like what about your performance as an actor connects with people? Like did you figure out something about yourself as a performer because of the rapidity of the response on say TikTok? Ooh, I mean, yeah. Look, making my own sketches on YouTube for years was,

And it was huge. It really taught me to get used to myself on camera. It taught me what I looked and sounded like and how to act on camera, really. Because if you came to the English teacher set, you would see there was sort of this way that we're working. We're just trying to find the funniest way to do it. I'll do a lot of different takes.

And I'm really giving the editors in my performance, and we do it with other actors too if they want to, we're giving the editors huge options, like total different energetic ways the scene could be. Like I'll do ones that are really big and over the top and almost caricature-y, and then I'll do ones that are really understated where I barely move and I'm just almost murmuring the lines. Yeah.

And I think the editors like that. I mean, these editors are hugely instrumental to why the show works. I wonder, in this vein, right, because there is such a continuum of, you know, let's say, like, precision and professionalism in comedy. I wonder, I was so interested about just, like, what it was like to be on the Will & Grace reboot of this classic property, this classic show, right?

Working again, you're talking about characters. With characters that we all know, especially Jack, you're playing Estefan, the love interest of Jack. What was it like fitting your talent into this thing that you already knew, like, it works because we've seen it so much? It was so amazing. I just feel so grateful. I mean, they were all so welcoming. You know, Debra and Sean and Eric and Megan, they were just so sweet to me, so...

arms wide open. And, you know, it's kind of simple. It's like Max Muchnick and David Cohan, they make an amazing show and they know exactly how to do it. And they're just, they're very brilliant creatives. And so they came up with this part and I showed up able to do what was required. And then they just knew how to make that sing. So really you're just

It's kind of simple. You're just in great hands. And so the writing is doing so much of it. And I, you know, I mean, since I was little, I have my sort of the showboat side of me, you know, where I love to just perform in front of a crowd. And that was amazing. I mean, especially the most unique thing about being on the Will & Grace reboot is that

You're doing it in front of a live audience, and it's like you're at a rock show because these people have been watching Will & Grace for 20 years. They can't believe they're here getting to see it. And then you're delivering brand new hysterical jokes. Yeah. And then you're doing another take with a new punchline, and it's just the coolest thing ever. He's here?

Stefan, come in, come in, come in. Stefan, Will and Grace. Will, Grace, Stefan. So this is Will. Look at him with his square jaw and his wild mane of red hair. What? No, I'm not Will. I'm obviously a woman. Well, maybe you are not the one to say what is obvious. He's got you there, Grace. Sir, could I get like a soft drink, maybe something like a ginger ale? And please, leave the can.

I'll give it a look. You lied to me. No, no, no, I didn't lie. Will's not attractive. I grew up on that show. I loved that show. And my dad has a strict line for what he considers funny and not funny in our house. You know, we watched a lot of comedies. And maybe that's how I've turned out to be, you know, because I'll be like, no, this isn't funny yet. We have to make this funny. But...

Will and Grace was considered one of the funny shows that we watched. And that was big for me too, being gay and not really being out of the closet until high school and just knowing, well, you know...

This is okay. Like here are some gay icons that I can look up to basically. Was the accent brought to you or did you bring the accent? The accent was written. Yeah. It was a Spanish accent. Yeah, exactly. So were there things directly that you sort of learned there that made their way into the English teacher in terms of either writing or performance or anything? Was there supportability there? Yeah.

Yeah, you said the word precision. And I think that maybe is the biggest thing because Max Muchnick is very precise with what he wants. And so even though English teacher...

We're doing a lot of different options and stuff. There still is a real keen precision a lot of the time about what I'm trying to get. And I'm sure a lot of people that make comedy say this so much that it's overplayed. But the truth is you're looking for a certain sound, a certain musicality a lot of the time. For the joke to work, it has to go da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

You know? And so, so a lot of the time you're just really looking to get that exact thing. So I think that kind of clarity about what he wanted was something that I was able to take an English teacher and, and feel like, look, if we're going to make a great show, I'm going to have to be clear about what I want and not, you know, not super intense about it, but just be like, hold on. It needs to be like this. Not like that, like this, you know? Thank you, Brian Jordan Alvarez. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was awesome.

Brian Jordan Alvarez spoke with The New Yorker staff writer Vincent Cunningham. You can watch English Teacher on FX and Hulu. I'm David Remnick, and that's our program for today. Thanks for listening, and see you next time. The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell.

This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul, and Ursula Sommer. With guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan, and Alejandra Decat. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Trina Endowment Fund. ♪

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