Everything We Know About House of the Dragon (with Paddy Considine and Matt Smith)
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We play an ugly game. You have the determination to win it. Jason, I don't know if it's just like Slacker Fest 2022 over here, but I extremely do not have the determination to win the Game of Thrones. I'm just going to say it right now. Come on, don't run from the grind this early, Greta. What do you mean? I just feel like after the first time somebody tries to kill me, I'm going to be like, you know what? The crown, I'm good. I'll see y'all later. I'm going up north. I'd throw a pillow on that Iron Throne and have a seat.

Well, then it's all yours. Why don't they let them sit on pillows? This is a good question, by the way. The cushion? That's a good question. Welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon. I'm Jason Concepcion, host of the podcast X-Ray Vision from Crooked Media and Binge Mode from The Ringer.

And I'm Greta Johnson, host of WBEZ's Nerd App Podcast. And this is a show for everybody. Maybe you're already a Game of Thrones superfan. Maybe you're like, hmm, I would like to dip my toe into these weird waters. Whatever it is, we are delighted to have you. We are here to talk about the new HBO original series, House of the Dragon. ♪

Shoes off, socks off. Let's dip those toes for the next three weeks. Yeah. Because Greta and I are going to be guiding you through all the news, all the updates around this show, House of the Dragon, before it premieres on HBO Max on August 21st. Yeah. I mean, if we can avoid wet socks, I think we should, right? Wet socks is a no. Yeah. Yeah.

We are going to be watching every episode of the HBO original series along with you, recapping and analyzing all of the major moments and crazy stuff that we know is going to happen because it's a Game of Thrones show.

And that's not all. We're going to bring you exclusive interviews, folks, with the cast and crew. We're going to reveal all the magic behind how this series is made. In this episode today, Jason and I are going to share our reactions to some of the news out of San Diego Comic-Con, which, Jason, you got to go to, and I'm very jealous about that. That's right.

And you'll hear my interview from Comic-Con with Patti Considine, who plays King Viserys Targaryen, and Matt Smith, who plays Prince Daemon Targaryen. Yeah, I said I was jealous. I don't know what more you want from me. Matt Smith! Also, today we are going to give you a brief history lesson on House Targaryen so that you can fully grasp all of the inter-family baggage. So let's get started.

So, Jason, this is the first episode of our podcast, which means I think we should give a brief overview of some of the story and players that we're going to be talking about over the next several episodes. Especially, I want to make sure people who have not seen Game of Thrones and who are ready to jump in with House of the Dragon feel like they're on even footing as they enter Westeros for the first time.

Book readers and Game of Thrones experts, go ahead and hit sprint on the treadmill. Go get a cup of coffee. This following statement will not apply to you. For those of you who have not watched Game of Thrones, are not aware of our show, House of the Dragon, these all come from the books themselves.

Written by famed fantasy author George R.R. Martin, books such as the titular Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast of Crows, etc., etc.,

And those started coming out in the late 90s. That's right. These started coming out in the 90s. So they've been around a while and later were adapted into the series A Game of Thrones. Which started in 2011. Right. Which even if you haven't watched, you might have heard of. Yeah, it was a pretty big show. People seemed to like it, you know. A lot of people were talking about it all the time. So that show went for eight seasons. It explored the world of Westeros.

where different royal houses were vying for control of the realm and for the right to sit upon the throne, the Iron Throne, as it is called. Now, House of the Dragon, our show, is also based off a George R.R. Martin book. That book is called Fire and Blood. It is a fictional history

that covers roughly 150 years of Targaryen history, the family that ruled Westeros at this time. Now, having read the book, I know who these characters are. I know these places. But what's really cool and what I think everyone's going to really get a kick out of is seeing all this stuff fully sketched out on the screen for the first time. There's going to be a lot of surprises and there's going to be a lot of dragons.

As you mentioned, Game of Thrones is based on a series of books. The series is called A Song of Ice and Fire. Of course, George was super involved in the creation of both of these shows as an executive producer. So you're not only going to hear us reference, you know, his involvement with the books, but also we'll mention him in the context of the show, along with, of course, for House of the Dragon, co-showrunners and EPs Ryan Condal and Miguel Sapochnik.

So, yeah, I mean, just to really reconfirm, if you have not seen Game of Thrones, you certainly can try to watch 80 episodes over the next couple of weeks before the show starts. But you can definitely enjoy House of the Dragon without knowing anything about Game of Thrones beyond what we've just told you. That's right. You do not need to watch Game of Thrones before you watch this. This is a prequel. This is the events in this show are taking place some two centuries before the events of that show. Now.

Let's say you're watching Game of Thrones right now or you're thinking, I want to start. Be warned. We're going to talk about some stuff that will probably spoil some details about that series within the run of this podcast. So just be warned about that. And we'll try and call that out when it's going to happen, just so you can turn away or mute or whatever you need to do so you don't get spoiled.

But speaking of spoilers, I do want to say to Jason, like you have read the book Fire and Blood, but we're not going to you're not going to talk about what you have read in the book and things that, you know, we're only talking about. I mean, I just want to make sure that people know, you know. Right. And yes, for those of you who have already watched Game of Thrones, don't forget House of the Dragon. As Jason said, it's a prequel. That means, you know, you're going to hear some of the names of families and stuff that you liked from Game of Thrones.

But this really is, you know, it's taking place almost 200 years before the events of Game of Thrones. So, you know, it's a whole new, it's a fresh start, you know? And while in Game of Thrones, there were only a sprinkling of Targaryens around, in House of the Dragon, they're gonna be everywhere. They're all around. They rule the continent at this time, and they are riding on over a dozen dragons. So...

Dragons and Targaryens, very common sight in Westeros, in the capital, King's Landing, and in this show. Dragons and Targaryens abound. I mean, I am very excited about seeing the dragons thriving in this series, so I think that's going to be really fun. Now that we've given our listeners some background on the show, I think this is a really great chance for everyone listening to get to know us and for you and I to get to know each other. Should we talk a little bit about nerd cred, Jason? Let's go. Let's go.

So when it comes to Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, I think we should start actually with how many languages from Game of Thrones you can speak. I mean, speak is strong. Yeah.

But I did learn Dothraki for work over the course of eight weeks or so. And I'm slowly getting there with my Valerian, which I think is very useful as like a mother tongue and a lot for a lot of the cultures in this show. But how about this? Macho Maroon. Macho Maroon. I don't know. No, thank you. It just means hello. Hi. Standard greeting in Dothraki. Oh, OK, cool. Hi. What else you got? Yeah.

Okay, how about this? San Achamari Yaran. Ooh, that's a long, ooh, I don't, what is that? Translated literally, it means much respect. It's basically thank you. Okay, so obviously you're super into this stuff. I started reading the books around when Feast for Crows came out because it was on the New York Times bestseller list and I thought the blurb looked interesting. And then I've just been a fan from there. I was super excited when the show was announced. What about you? How'd you get into it?

Well, so I read the books a very long time ago, kind of like right as they came out. I think the first three were out at that point. I have a joke about how the fourth book came out when I started graduate school and I finished graduate school, but not the fourth book.

But I did actually, you know, in addition to hosting Nerd Hat podcast on WBEZ, I actually also hosted Nerd Hat recaps Game of Thrones with Peter Sagal. And I think we started with season five. But, you know, it was pretty hardcore, as you know, like recapping Game of Thrones. It's not for the weak of heart, you know, because people be dying. And speaking of which, are you looking forward to the people dying? What's what are you most excited for as we start this?

Who am I looking for? I mean, that's kind of a heartless way of putting it, Jason. But I mean, the answer is yes, frankly. Yeah.

I mean, I will say, I think one thing that, you know, both the books and the show did so well with Game of Thrones is that they weren't afraid to kill off main characters. And I think, you know, other shows have pulled that off, you know, to varying degrees of success since then. But yeah, I think that's something that I am really curious to like, I just want something super plotty where like crazy things that I could not possibly have predicted happen. And I think we can bet on that, you know?

Oh, absolutely. I think that I am like you looking forward to those moments where you just cannot believe what you just saw. What? Yeah. Yeah. Those. So, OK, Jason, I think we should talk about some of the news and updates around the series that's come out in the past week or so, because a lot is happening. You got to host the panel for House of the Dragon at Comic-Con. I can't believe you got to do this. I want to know everything. How was it? Did you have fun?

I had a lot of fun. It was extremely terrifying. You know, listen, as a longtime enthusiast of...

comic conventions, various nerdy-type conventions. Hall H, that's like the Sistine Chapel of this kind of world, you know? And it's very, very hard to get into. The lines were extremely long. And for a long time, you know, I just wanted to get in there as a person and watch stuff. So to be... Like from backstage? Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, to be behind the mic, flanked by the entire cast and George, it was...

and extremely, to be honest, extremely terrifying. Greta, it was terrifying. There's 6,000 people in there. Is it really 6,000 people in that room? 6,000. So I've never been to Comic-Con. Obviously, I've heard a lot about it. But like, that's a huge audience. That's like a whole Warped Tour. That's a bunch of people.

That's crazy. I did watch the YouTube video of it and it was really fun. I thought you did a great job. I couldn't tell that you were terrified. So it's like you, you're standing behind a podium and then it's what, is it seven or eight cast members and then a showrunner and George? I want to say like there are 12 of them up there. There are so many humans.

Plus George R.R. Martin. Ever heard of him? And Ryan Condal. Again, it was super exciting. It was great to see the fans. That's the other thing, like, why I love a con is you just feel like you're amongst your people. That's the thing. Like, that's not like 6,000 pissed off people, right? No. Those are 6,000 people who are like, oh, my God, this is so, like, I can't imagine how fun the energy in that room must have been. Yes. Like, when we went to the questions, the audience question phase. Yes. Oh, God.

There was a woman who had this incredible Balerion, the Black Dread, the dragon of Aegon the Conqueror cosplay where she is mounted on the dragon, but her legs go down through it. And it was just amazing. And like, that's the kind of energy we saw it like out in front of the convention center and,

There were two members of the Night's Watch plus a dire wolf, which was amazing. It's just like the Night King was there. What? Yeah, the Night King. By the way, looking great in his retirement. He has gotten over. He's gotten over. Does he age well?

He's ages. I mean, he's like 10,000 years old. So, you know, weather, you know. Yeah. I think that the heat was getting to him a little bit. But I have to say he looked a lot more relaxed than whence last we saw him when he was trying to conquer, you know, the entire world. You know, that kind of weighed off his shoulders. He looked more chilled out. It was it was incredible. That sounds just like beautiful, nerdy vibes. You know, I will remember it.

For the rest of my life. It is a core memory. Oh, that's awesome. So I know I have some favorite like questions and answers from that conversation, but I'm curious, like what really stuck out to you? Like what were you really excited to hear about in the room when you were there? Oh my gosh. Just anything about

The creation of this show, I think one of the things that stood out to me was your point of engagement with any show and with House of the Dragon is going to be the cast, right? And you're thinking about all the talent and dedication they bring to it. And then, of course, the storytellers with George and Ryan and Miguel, like how much effort and time they put into it. But hearing them talk about the production design, the prop people, like how much of a collaboration it is and how at the top of their games, everyone who is involved in this

Really is totally from makeup to props to costuming, just people trying to create an intensely immersive world. And that was really cool. And then, you know, selfishly, I love hearing people talk about like their creative process, you know, just like what it is that they latch on to as they're building out these characters and trying to flesh out these worlds.

Well, yeah, because someone mentioned like that they kept a diary while filming, right? All right. That was Emily Carey, our young Alison Hightower. So I find it one of the best ways to like get into character. I just started journaling and with the advice of Miguel and Ryan, I managed to come up with

some form of backstory and it proved to be very very useful for the relationship between Allison and Otto family is such a key word because it's all about bloodline I mean that's kind of what the show is all about I've never had the freedom to be able to create a whole human being like this before so it was so much fun being able to go so in-depth with her

That reminds me of something that I thought was super interesting during that conversation, Jason, which was from Ryan Condal, who's one of the co-showrunners, talking about, you know, how he had source material from George R.R. Martin, the book Fire and Blood, but it's not, you know, a novelistic series like Song of Ice and Fire. And for Ryan, he talked about how in a lot of ways that was really exciting for him in terms of his creative process because he got to connect with

a lot of dots that weren't like literally in the text the way it would have been if it were a novel, which I thought was really cool. It's a really interesting challenge because it is not a traditional novel. It's not written in prose. It's a history book, as George calls it, a fake history.

There's some dialogue, but then other things, it's just, oh, this happened on this day, and then there was a war. So the trick is, I think, painting in the lines that you have point A and point C, but you don't really know what point B was. And that's the fun of the invention of the show.

Yeah, that was a cool insight. The cool thing about Fire and Blood and the other kind of novellas that depict this period of Westeros' history is that it's written like a history book. And the primary sources for this book are like various unreliable narrators who have their own agendas and stuff. And so it was really cool to talk to Ryan about how do you make a decision about like who is right in this particular situation and who is accurate? Yeah.

You've got two different, oftentimes when you read that book, when you read Fire and Blood, you'll have kind of like competing depictions of a particular event, one much more dramatic and messy than the other one, which seems much more dry and simplistic. So how do you make the decision between those two things? And that was really cool to hear him talk about that. That was really interesting. For sure. As someone with a journalism degree, it's something I think about a lot, let me tell you. Yeah.

I really loved the point where you asked about what makes a good king in Westeros. One of the fundamental things in a good king is someone who regards being king as a duty rather than a privilege that they are entitled to. And occasionally to do boring things like building roads and sanitation in King's Landing and all that. Nobody

really wants to do a spinoff show about King Jaehaerys builds the roads. But I do think if you actually lived in Westeros, you might like a king who's more concerned with building roads than fighting wars. Yeah, it's fascinating because it really seems like one of those jobs where the person who wants it is never the right person. Yes. And the person who doesn't want it is usually the right person.

But they don't want it. Jason, another thing that you talked about in the panel was why hasn't there been a queen in Westeros? And, you know, speaking of parallels to the modern world, we don't have a heck of a lot of female leaders out there either, at least not in the U.S. And one of the actors on the show, I can't remember quite who it was, mentioned the idea of, you know, like exactly that, like the modern world isn't even ready. So, of course, it exists in this world, too. Who was it who said that? That was our adult Princess Rhaenyra, Emma Darcy.

I mean, we also haven't fixed it, right? Like, we still choose male rulers. Like, it's 2022, and we tend to pick men. And I think one of the questions of the series is, if you are a woman looking to rule, how do you convince male subjects that you're not other? That's kind of a question. I don't know it has an answer. We don't have an answer today. APPLAUSE

Can I tell you my other favorite moment? Yeah. So you asked everyone, like, what their sigils would be, what animal they would connect with. That was a fan question. Oh, that was a fan question. You're right. Shouts to the fan. That was a really fun question. Well, and I love George being like, well, mine, of course, would be the turtle, which is like, yes, of course it would be. But then to hear him talk about, like, why aren't there more badgers is something that, like, literally I watched that last night and I've thought about probably four times since then because it's just like, where are the badgers, Jason? I mean...

Tough look for House Cole and our friend from Florence or Kristen Cole, whose sigil is like nine lumps of coal. That's weak sauce. Have you thought about what yours would be? Oh, gosh. I think like a book, like a book and a candle. That's nice and nerdy. I like. Yeah, it's very basic. What will yours be?

I don't know. I mean, maybe a corgi, you know. Corgi. That's great. Right? They're so fierce. They're very fierce and very bossy. Little bosses. Totally.

So, Jason, what to you were some of the other highlights from the con? We announced the podcast. We announced that this podcast, which we are now speaking on, is a thing in the world that will exist. I got to announce that in my intro. So if you're asking me, what was that like? I don't remember because the adrenaline was so high at that time. I had only been on stage for 15 seconds. And then we debuted the extended trailer, the four Comic-Con trailer for the Hall H audience, which was awesome. Yes.

I consider the matter urgent. That of your succession. The Iron Throne is the most dangerous seat in the realm. And our line is vulnerable. Too easily ended. Well, who else would have a claim? The firstborn child. Rhaenyra. No queen has ever sat the Iron Throne. The king has an heir. Daemon Targaryen. I will not be made to choose between my brother and my daughter.

What did you think of it? Oh, my God. Your thoughts first. I think we should watch this show, Jason. I think this looks like a really good time, right? You know what? I was on the fence, but now I'm going to do it. Right, yeah. I think we should lean in. I think we should make it happen. I don't know. It's...

I love something that's just super plotty and really dramatic. And I mean, like, just seeing the level of, like, suspense and peak drama and high production value and all of it in those last couple of minutes, I just think this is going to be a fascinating show. So can I, like, give you my hypothesis of what's happening here? Oh, I'd love to hear it. Yes.

So we have a king who's like trying to figure out who should take over after him, essentially. Right. And we even have that line, like, how can I choose between my brother and my daughter? Right. And the daughter's Rhaenyra, who's like, does she have braids? She's got like the I mean, obviously she's got the blonde hair. Yeah. We see her as a younger woman and then as an adult woman in the course of this trailer.

And then, of course, we've got cutie Matt Smith, who I assume is the brother who I adore, who's Damon Targaryen. Yeah, the younger kind of wild brother in contrast to the kind of more chilled out vibe of King Viserys, who's just kind of a kickback. Hey, I've got this big decision and I'm just going to kick that can down the road until I dream about it. And then I have to deal with it. I mean, fair enough. Good for her. I love kicking a can, you know, when I can. It's great.

So I have to say then I'm really conflicted about this because as a person, I mean, Matt Smith was my favorite doctor. I adore Matt Smith very much. However, feminism, I feel kind of like I need to root for Rainiera. Is that sort of what's getting set up here? All the feminists are conflicted because Matt Smith is cute. Well, let me say this.

You notice again that Princess Rhaenyra, we see her as a kind of young adult and then as an adult. So this show clearly is going to unfold over the course of people's lives. And, you know, if you think about your own life, the way you thought about and felt about a thing when you were 15 maybe is not the way you think and feel about it when you're 25 or 30. And I would expect that...

the positions that these characters take will evolve and move over time, which I think, which is one of the things that I'm really excited to see. I totally respect what you're saying about, you know, insights and opinions changing over time, but I do think I'm always going to love Matt Smith. I guess we'll see what happens over the course of this show. I just want to stand by that right now, Jason, for the record.

But no, I think what you point out is really interesting because, I mean, that's something obviously that Game of Thrones did really well in terms of like there's a narrative audacity to this show. Right. It's like we're going to kill off who we think is the main character. These people who you thought were aligned, like something crazy is going to happen and then it's going to completely shift everything. And I think what you're saying about like the scope of even just this season means that it's going to be really exciting. Yeah.

Yeah, even over the course of the trailer, I think you see a kind of pivot from –

Corlys and Otto Hightower talking about, oh, well, what about Daemon? Oh, what about Princess Rhaenyra? To Princess Rhaenyra and Alice and Hightower literally trying to stab each other in front of a huge crowd. Yeah, it seems like things are going to pick up for sure. Yeah, I think so. The battle lines are clearly going to be drawn that way. I actually did an extended breakdown of that. You can find it on YouTube.

That's awesome. Is it just you like dancing along to the music insanely? Because I feel like that's what we... It's me in a room filled with candles, you know, just breaking down this trailer in a very, very normal way, in a very, very normal context. I bet it's super chill. It's very, very chill and very, very normal. You get an idea of what I do in my spare time. Yeah, you seem like a super normal guy for sure. Right, of course.

You know, Comic-Con was amazing. And we have a lot more content from my trip that we're going to share here with the listeners over the next few weeks. But I think right now, let's get into a little history lesson. Yeah. So as we mentioned, for the next couple of weeks, as we lead up to the show premiering, we are going to give you a couple of history lessons and some background information so that we can help set the scene and just get everybody really excited for House of the Dragon.

Today, we are going to give you a lightning round history lesson on some of the major houses contained in our story. You can think of us as your maesters, guiding you through the pages of history as we learn about Westeros' past.

Yes. And Jason, honestly, I don't want to take a whole lot of credit here. I think you're really going to be the maester of this one because while I have seen and read a lot of the Game of Thrones books and the TV show, of course, I am not super familiar with the source material from House of the Dragon, which is George R.R. Martin's book, Fire and Blood, which you have read, right?

That's right. I write all these books so y'all don't have to. Exactly. Okay, so since this is the official House of the Dragon pod, I feel like we should start with the literal House of the Dragon, House Targaryen. Who are the major players nearly 200 years before the Mother of Dragons? Where did they come from? How did they end up rulers of the Seven Kingdoms? And most importantly, Jason, what is up with these dragons? What's up with the dragons? It's a good question. Gods. Kings. Kings.

Fire and blood.

Okay, so let me tell you what I know about House Targaryen, and then you can help fill in some of the blanks. Cool? Sure. Okay, so obviously Daenerys Targaryen, conflicted heroine, dabbled in tyranny. You know, we're pretty familiar with her. Light drizzling of tyranny. A light drizzle of tyranny, exactly. Just a sprinkle on top, you know? That's right. So obviously she's part of a longstanding family. I know they hailed from Old Valyria. I know that's a region in Essos.

I know they have really long blonde hair for the most part. I know about Valyrian steel, which is, you know, what Jon Snow's fancy steel sword was in Game of Thrones. So I had a new pommel made called Longclaw. This is Valyrian steel. I think that's all I got. How else can you fill us in on this? All correct. All right on. And the big thing, of course, is that Valyrians were super, super famous for riding dragons. Oh!

Oh, of course, the dragons. The dragons! The obvious question is, where did these dragons come from? Where? Yeah. Where? And the answer is, no one's really sure. Lots of legends about this.

across the world, and the Valerians themselves had a legend that they came from inside the 14 Flames, which is the collective name for these 14 massive volcanoes that dominated the Valerian landscape. And because of the magic that came from those volcanoes and because of their ability to ride dragons, Valeria was a superpower on the eastern continent until the Doom.

Oh, that doesn't sound good at all. It's not good. The Doom, you know, a little ominous sounding title, and of course...

As you would expect, it's bad. 220 years before the events of House of the Dragon, all of those volcanoes erupted at once. Massive earthquakes happening at the same time. And the end result was the entire region was no longer inhabitable. Everybody that was there was dead. And what was left was a smoke-shrouded, cursed ruin that

That's good for nothing except catching a case of fatal greyscale. Wait, now greyscale being that came up in Game of Thrones because Janice's daughter Shireen had that. It's like the weird skin flaky situation, right? Yes, that's right. Not a lot of lotions over in Westeros.

So it was a fatal disease. And you will remember that Jorah Mormont and Tyrion were exploring the ruins of old Valyria and Jorah fell in the water, was touched by a sufferer of greyscale. And next thing you know, he's got greyscale. I remembered him falling in the water. I definitely didn't remember the volcano, though. So that's helpful. Thank you for that insight.

So back to the Targaryens, our dragon lords were the only ones who survived the cataclysmic doom. And up to that point during the history of Valeria, they were just kind of like a middle class household. Dragon riding households were the ruling class of Valeria. But amongst that ruling class, the Targaryens were definitely nothing special, not amongst the elite. Okay. But.

Destiny favored them. It's always great to be lucky, Greta. Some years before the doom, young Danis Targaryen

had a dream that disaster would befall Valeria, and she told her dad, Aenar, about it. It was like, Dad, I had this crazy dream, the entire land's consumed by fire. What do we do? And he says, I'll tell you what we do. First of all, I believe you. Second of all, let's pack all this stuff up. We're moving. We're hitting the road. They pack up the entire household, all their Valyrian steel, all their servants, and all their dragons, and they headed west. ♪♪

That's crazy. I'm trying to picture a world in which I, you know, as like a little kid or a teenager or whatever, would be like, Dad, I had a dream. Then now we have to move. Like what father would be like, you know, a kid. Let's go. I think this is a good point. We should entirely relocate. It's all about the details, Greta. I think if you came with enough detail about what the dream entailed, Dad would have no good idea. No choice but to believe you. OK, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. So then so what happened? They relocated.

Right. They go west. They ended up on the island of Dragonstone in the narrow sea between Essos and Westeros. And Dragonstone had for years been the westernmost outpost of the Valyrian Empire. Now, moving to a new neighborhood can be tough. There's a lot to unpack. You're in new schools. You've been dealing with new shops. Yeah. Where's my grocery store? Now, luckily, the Targaryens knew people in town.

House Velaryon of Driftmark were longstanding allies of the Targaryens, and they lived on the island directly west of Dragonstone, called again Driftmark. And similar to the Targaryens, they too were from Valyria. Okay, so House Velaryon is Valyrian, Targaryens are Valyrian, but then Valyrian, like we got a lot of V things happening here. Can you unpack that a little bit, please? Yes.

Yeah, this can be very confusing. And of course, the Targaryens have a lot of similar named, same named characters in their family. So just to unpack this, Valyria was a place. That's where the Valyrians come from.

Some of the people from Valeria were the Targaryens. It's a family that came from Valeria. Another family that came from Valeria was House Valerian, who obviously styled their name to reference the place that they came from. But that is a family, the Valerians, not the place Valeria. OK, so they're just very patriotic people, apparently. Yeah.

They just want to let it be known. They moved to the Narrow Sea and they wanted to let it be known, hey, we're Valerians. You know how you know? Our last name, Valerian. Sweet. Now, unlike the Targaryens, the Valerians were not dragon riders, did not sail through the skies. They sailed on the seas. They loved to be aboard their boats. They loved the spray of salt in their face, the wind in their sails. These are boat people.

And through this, through their fleet and careful domination of narrow sea trade routes, they got super, super rich and powerful. Awesome. OK, so then what happened next? So over a century after Aenar took his family to Dragonstone and after a lot of planning, Aenar's great, great, great grandson, Aegon Targaryen, alongside his sisters, Visenya and Rhaenys, who were also his wives,

Aegon invaded Westeros. Okay, because that's the thing Targaryens do. They marry... It's an incestuous... It's a very close family situation.

It's as close as it gets. And the rationale there was, you know, we're dragon riders. We don't want to share any of our power with anyone that is not part of the family. And so the safest way to ensure that that power is not diluted is to just marry my sister. Both of them. Well, and I mean, you know, they're all beautiful people, too, right? So, I mean, sure, sure. And what nothing wrong could possibly happen.

And everybody lived happily ever after. Right. Great. So Aegon Targaryen only had about 300 soldiers and these soldiers were transported ashore by Valyrian ships. But they had that secret weapon. They had the three dragons. Oh, yes. We know how well the dragons do in battle. This is going to be very helpful, I imagine. All you need is one. And they had three. And guess what that means? That means that Aegon won. Dreams didn't make us kings.

Dragons did. He very soon found himself ruling all of Westeros. He united the Seven Kingdoms under his rule, not counting Dorne. That's a story for another time. And he got to style himself Aegon the Conqueror. And it was a great ending for everyone. House Velaryon would go on to occupy important positions in the Targaryen regime. Velaryon ships for years to come would go on to make up the backbone of the royal fleet. It was a perfect alliance of sky and sea.

Now, the events that take place in House of the Dragon happen about 120, 130 years after Aegon made landfall on Westeros. And I want to note, of course, that a lot of stuff happens in those years. A lot, a lot, a lot of stuff. But the really important thing to know from all those years was that during that time, the precedent that the male line was,

would be favored over the female line in matters of succession was established. Oh, that's cute. So what you're describing is the patriarchy. It has arrived. That is, it arrived. It is definitely there. And that's not what they called it, but it's there. Men would sooner put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne.

The Targaryens, of course, aren't the only significant family that we're going to help you keep track of. We also know we'll be seeing a lot from House Velaryon and House Hightower, but we're going to talk about them more as the season continues. So now that we have a at least brief rundown of the history of House Targaryen, Jason, I think we should listen to one of the interviews that you did at Comic-Con.

Sure. This is a super fun one. They're all really fun. This is an interview I did with Patti Considine and Matt Smith, who play King Viserys and his brother, Prince Daemon, respectively. And I think you'll find them quite charming and loquacious. Awesome. Let's take a listen.

So excited right now because sitting across me are Patti Considine and Matt Smith, two incredibly talented actors. And of course, we've seen Matt in Doctor Who, The Crown, Morbius, and Patti, of course, in Cinderella Man, The Outsider, Bourne Ultimatum, the many films that he's directed as well. But today, of course, we're talking about their roles as...

Prince Daemon Targaryen and King Viserys Targaryen in the HBO original House of the Dragon. Matt and Patty, welcome to the official Game of Thrones podcast. Thank you for having me, dog. Yeah, hey, dog. Thank you for having us. Your characters are brothers, and I think as a person who's read the original material, one thing that comes through is, though the brothers are extremely different, when the rubber hits the road, they love each other, and that's an almost unbreakable bond.

I'd like to get your take on, you know, because on the page, King Viserys is maybe a little meek, dithering somewhat. And I'm guessing that you took a different, found a different way to him. It's that thing, just because he's a good man, it doesn't mean that he's weak. He's just trying to do the right thing. And he's trying to stop war because, you know, in that seat of being king, people ultimately around that council and beyond just want you to serve their needs, right?

And he's not willing to do that. He's not willing to go to war to please a few. I think his job is always to see the bigger picture. And he's inherited, he's the king now. Jahares was a peacetime king and Viserys sees a virtue in continuing that. But at the same time, there is a part of him that's egotistical. Later on in the show, there is a scene where he basically says, how will I be remembered? And he basically says, people don't remember. Good.

good kings, they remember tyrants, they remember warriors. And my job, and I said to Miguel early on was, I said, look, he's a dragon and we've got to make sure that early on as good a man as he is, that he's not a pushover. Yeah.

And again, I was trying to subvert this idea that it doesn't just kind of become hard man who's whatever. But ostensibly, most people are afraid of Damon. And interesting for someone, you know, to say that Viserys is weak. As soon as Viserys goes, Oi, Damon, wind your neck in.

Damon does. He never, you know, it's like your word is rule. Yeah. And Damon shuts up and, you know, eats his porridge when he's told to. But it's difficult. But only from him. Yeah, only from Viserys. But I think the difficult thing is that his brother is now the king. Yeah. And he has to behave like a king. And I think he's always making, you know, excuses and amends for his brother's behaviour. Yeah. And always trying to defend his brother against the council. Yeah.

But he never throws him under the bus. No, never. Viserys does love Daemon massively. They just can't articulate it between each other. Daemon in Viserys' eyes is a fuck-up. He's always bringing trouble to his door. But a part of, I think, Viserys envies Daemon because part of him wishes that he could go off and do what Daemon does. Yeah. And all sort of Daemon wants is, when he says to him, he's like, come with me. You know what I mean? Be my big brother. Let's go. Like, we can have it all.

And you know, we're fucking doing all this, ruling the kingdom with the same mind. Do you think Damon would make a good king? No. No, no. It was an interesting question at the start of the season. They were like, the writers and Miguel and stuff, and I think HBO were like, but what is it that Damon wants? Does he want to be king? And I never thought it was. I just think he's a fucking agent of chaos. And he just enjoys placing these little bombs everywhere.

These brothers seem to have a very different relationship to power. Obviously, King Viserys is responsible for the realm. How do they interact with power? How do they view it?

Well, I don't think Viserys is driven by power at all. He's driven by responsibility. I think he's someone who's smarter than people in the council give him credit for. And Viserys is not weak. And that's the illusion. He's not weak at all. He's not power hungry. He fully understands what it is. So I don't think power drives Viserys. That's not his weakness. I think his virtues are his weakness. He's too kind. Yeah.

And you can't be all things to all men. I think Damon, yeah, again, I don't think he's very interested in power either. I think he's interesting. As I said, there's a sort of agent of chaos. I think his only interest in power is in sort of usurping it for shits and giggles. And, you know, oddly, he says...

To his brother, you know, you're weak. But I think that's all about him going, I don't feel recognized. Everything Damon does is a response of going, I want you to recognize me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Please. I love you. I love you. I love you. It's just a really annoying little brother. Yeah. You know what I mean? And that's actually like, I think that's what we landed on, isn't it? Yeah. Without ever really talking about it.

And it's weird in families, you know, there's things within my own family. There's estrangements. There's a strange psychology of cutting people out and punishing them with silence and things like that. And they're just, you know, why can't we just call each other up and say, I love you? It's hard. And I felt even when we were making it that Damon just wanted Viserys to say, I love you. And Viserys sort of knew that, but begrudgingly, it's like, I'm not going to say that to you. He doesn't hate Damon.

Doesn't hate him at all. He's just not going to give Damon what he wants. Which is odd though, isn't it? For someone who's so bright and sensible and such, you know, in many ways quite an astute man. He's still not capable emotionally of doing something really simple. Like he's quite complicated emotionally, Viserys. I think so too, yeah. There's a lot going on. My perception of Damon in this is that

He knows he wouldn't be a great king, right? Like deep, deep down, he's got to know all the things that he does, the way he lives his life. People just wouldn't accept. He has to know that somewhere, right? I think so. Yeah. But I think there is a sense, like what's weird about Damon, I found, I don't know if I've projected this onto him, but for someone who on the page is,

sort of disloyal and irreverent and all these things. Actually, he's got, there's a real sense of value and loyalty about him. And there's a sort of weird sensitivity to him. And it's about going, yeah, but that's my birthright. You're stealing what is my, essentially my birthright. And it's just a sort of basic betrayal, really. But I think he probably knows he'd be a terrible king. But also, I think he'd have a good time doing it. Yeah.

Yeah. It'd be a different show. Oh, yeah. It'd be a fucking comedy. They should make that show, actually. They should make that. Just, you know. King Damon, the show. How do you think it would go? I think it'd be a farce. I don't know. Damon is so interesting because he, on the one hand, as you've said, he is this agent of chaos. He's a man of action. On the other hand, he's a man of apathy. Yeah, the relationship with his brother, King Viserys, suggests that really what he wants is that, as you noted, is that

big brother that he can stand next to. He wants to stand next to someone. Very true. Which is such an interesting mix for a person who's so action-minded. And he's so sort of, he's really kind of solitary. He's like his dragon. You know, there's, you know, that strange sort of avatar-ness with those two, I think. Look, he was really interesting to play for that reason because I read somewhere that George said that, you know, with the Targaryens, you flip a coin or something and which side it lands is who they're going to be. And I think with Daemon, the coin's still in the air.

Over the years, King Viserys has given Daemon responsibility and watched what he's done with it. Does he think that he can fix Daemon or has he come to a place where he knows this is it? This is my brother. Absolutely not. No, he can't fix his brother. And I don't think he thinks he can. What he does is occupy his brother, keeps him occupied. If we keep Daemon over there and put him in charge of that and keep him busy...

You know, while no one's talking about him and then everything's fine. Give him a treat. Say that, you know. He's like a dog. Give him a job. Every job he's had, he's messed up. I can't fix him. I can't fix my own daughter. I can't fix anybody. It was never about trying to fix him. It was just that dysfunction that brothers have with their own egos. Of your castmates, who do you think would be the best ruler of Westeros? The best person to sit on the Iron Throne?

Me. The big dog spoke. Me. Good God, man. Your grace. What's the matter with you? I concede. Yeah, I can't think of anybody. They'd all make a balls of it, wouldn't they? Whoever's on that scene makes a balls of it anyway. It's a poison challenge. No one's a winner. You don't want that.

How familiar were you with Thrones? And in what way were you trying to subvert it, make it different if you did know about it, if you were aware of it? Yeah, well, I'd watched it. I'd watched it all of my own sort of volition, basically. And I suppose there's a notion and on the page, Daemon could just be sort of bad guy, good warrior, right?

And I wanted it, you know, like I said, I wanted to sort of make him, I wanted to subvert all that and make it something slightly more delicate, fragile. I think he's quite fragile, Damon. He's quite a fragile creature. And I was interested in that part of it, really. Funnily enough, I was watching the show. Me and my family were watching the show in the lockdowns.

And I think we were like three in or something. What, it was three getting the call about Game of Thrones? Yeah, and then I got the call about, you know, they wanted me for this role. And I was like, well, that's a beautiful sort of synchronicity, like, because we're kind of watching it. So this is a bit crazy. And I was really enjoying it. I love Game of Thrones. I thought it was great. I thought it was high quality. And I think, you know, as that show found its feet from its beginnings and grew to what it was...

I thought across the board there was some really amazing quality that came through it and some really brilliant actors. And I think they set the tone for us to step into it. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't like they had the difficult job of, like, being the first. Right. And then, you know, and the show became what it did. But it wasn't like that to begin with. It grew and grew into the phenomena that it is. So in a way we were able to step into something that they'd already established the tone for. What I liked about the scripts was that it didn't feel like it was a spin-off.

They weren't shooting it particularly differently, you know, like we're going to do, but we're reimagining everything and it's going to look like the Matrix or something. It was Game of Thrones. It was well within the world of Game of Thrones. And I think that's a smart move. I think that's really good. And I thought it was well within the framework of what I watched.

So I was excited about doing it. It's like sort of having a band, isn't it? And going out and playing a festival and knowing that you've got to play all the hits from the first two albums or something. Yeah. As well as the new stuff. But, you know, hopefully we can lean in. You know, there's an originality to it because it's a new set of actors. Yeah. It's a slightly more contained world.

And I think, Matt, at times we had to sort of say, you know, establish like, yeah, I know, right, this is our experience. We acknowledge that and appreciate it, like I just explained. But we can't forever be in the debt of it. It's like, well, you've hired us. This is a year of our lives now. We've got to do our job. So we have to sort of just get on with things and make this experience unique for us too, if that makes sense. It does.

Well, this has been a great conversation, Matt Smith, Patty Considine. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh, my God, Jason. There are a lot of really interesting elements of that interview, but I think the one that shocks me the most is just how much Matt Smith swore.

Yeah, one thing that really came through in the room is how much those two liked hanging out with each other. They were thick as thieves. Like, it was actually a little tough to start the interview because they were just talking about everything, talking about how they were going to form a band together, just going on and on and on. And I think that bond, you know, obviously they play brothers. Mm-hmm.

That bond of friendship, that chemistry, you know, I think is going to be an interesting platform for them to build their characters on. That's going to be really fun to watch. That's cool. I mean, you know, who doesn't love a bromance, right? Like, that's just adorable. It was a full-on bromance. Well, and there's even that moment in the interview when Matt says, like, dare I say, like each other. Oh, y'all, like, this is a real... I just thought it was really sweet. But I don't know, to your point, too, I really liked...

what they said about, you know, how obviously they had the source material to work with and the scripts and everything, but that they both really wanted to bring more to it as well. And I think the fact that they have a strong relationship as they do in real life has to lend itself well to performances on the screen too, right? Yeah, I agree. And Patty was very forthcoming about that part of his process, you know, on the page in the source books. Can

King Viserys is, you know, a little bit of a cipher. I think probably the gut reaction readers would come away with is a little weak. And Paddy really found a pathos and a gentleness and a niceness about him. Like he seems, you know, he seems like he really went for it.

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think it really speaks to, you know, just something that people tend to love about Thrones in general, which is that, you know, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that the Thrones are made, the way that

you know, not only is their relationship as brothers complicated, but also they're just complicated characters. You know, they're not like capital G good or capital B bad. There's more to it than that, which is partly what makes this such a fun show to watch. What do you think about Damon as King? Any thoughts?

Oh, I think that would probably be a nightmare. I kind of agree with Matt Smith on that one. Like, that is not what the world needs, right? As much as I love Matt. Let him do it for like a fortnight and let's see what it would be like. A fortnight? Oh, God. No, it's too long. It's too long. He can have two hours. We're going to give him

90 minutes. We'll give him 90 minutes on the throne. The length of Clueless is how long he has. From like 1am to 3am, Damon can run the show. And then we'll see how he does. Yeah, and we'll go from there, okay?

All right. That's it for today's episode. Don't forget to join us again next week. We're going to dig into the geography of Westeros. Ooh, delightful. And we are going to hear Jason's interview with actor Steve Toussaint, who portrays Corlys Velaryon, also known as the Sea Snake in House of the Dragon.

And of course, we want to hear from you. Send those Ravens out. Don't forget to leave a rating. Review us on your podcast player of choice. We love five stars. And of course, you can find us on the Game of Thrones and House of the Dragons social media handles. As for me, I'm on Twitter at at network NETW3RK.

And you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Greta M. Johnson. The official Game of Thrones podcast, House of the Dragon, is produced by HBO Max in collaboration with iHeartRadio. And this podcast is hosted by Jason Concepcion. And Greta Johnson. Our executive producer is Molly Socha. Our supervising producer is Nakia Swinton. Our lead sound engineer is Matt Stillo.

This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen. Our producer is Jason Concepcion in association with Crooked Media. Special thanks to Michael Gluckstadt, Allison Cohen, Kenya Reyes, and Becky Rowe at HBO.