Episode 6: Dancing the Ancient Forms
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All right, welcome to the Theory of Anything podcast. Today we've got a great episode. We're meeting with a friend of mine, Sarika Nayak. I have to tell you how I actually met her. I had been working at a place for several years as a consultant, and I sat on the front of the row of all the cubicles. So a lot of people would stop by and talk to me, because if you're sitting at the front, then you're very easy to stop and talk to. And I'm sitting there, and suddenly I look up, and there's this

five foot Indian woman and she's got this giant smile and she's like got energy just coming off of her. And she's like, hi, I'm Sarka and I'm so excited to be here. And she started to explain to me what her job was and she was new today and things like that. And, and,

And then I would later joke that she, she would add, and this isn't actually true, but she would add, and also I'm going to lunch with everybody here to find out what they do. And can I schedule in on Thursday? And so, but that was how my first meeting with Sarika. And then we became friends after that. And she's actually friends with everybody at the company, but she's just a very exciting person and she's full of energy. And as I got to know her, I found out that she has a dance business and that she has this great love of dance and there's

so many interesting things culturally around this that I really wanted to do an episode about it. So, Sarika, can you maybe introduce yourself?

Thank you, Bruce. I couldn't have got a better introduction than what you have given. So as Bruce said, I am a very, I'm an extrovert. I love talking to people. I love knowing about their culture. I love traveling. So that's what always excites me and keeps me, gives me that motivation, you know, to talk to people and find out and be friends. Um,

I have been in Utah for five years now. I have been in the IT industry working as a business analyst, business consultant, and now product owner. And it's been a 12 years experience in this industry. I have thoroughly enjoyed doing what I do. But apart from that, a big part of me is all about dance.

dance actually transforms me to a different kind of a person. It just makes me a different free-spirited soul. And I always, it just gets me to that mode where dance like no one is watching you. So yes, dance is a really big part of my life. Apart from that, I have a six-year-old

who always keeps me busy always. And then I'm wife to a research engineer and have been happily married for 11 years now. And a big reason why my life is so beautiful and it's a celebration is because I have these two boys in my life. So yeah, that's about me in a nutshell. Wonderful. Yes.

And I can attest to firsthand to the free-spirited nature of Sarika. And by the way, her husband is awfully cool. It would probably be fun to have him on the show sometime too. Sarika, one of the things that you mentioned to me once that I thought was really interesting is,

First of all, I mean, maybe let me just mention that you have a dance business. So that's very interesting. But you also mentioned that part of this dance business was dance therapy, which I had never even heard of before. Can you maybe describe some of your dance business, what you're doing here? Maybe work into that, what dance therapy is and what you do with that, but describe everything around your dance business and how you got it started and things like that. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know what, when I was three years old, my mom just pushed me to a dance class and I was like, you know, why is she doing that? I really didn't want to dance. I hated my dance teacher. He looked like a demon to me whenever I went to the class.

So I was never interested, but the more and more I got into it and I realized I'm forgetting everything when I am into this world. And, you know,

That was my first trigger, which told me that, you know, dance could be, it's an art form or any art form, not only dance, by the way, but any art form which you're really passionate about, which you really like, which you can do, actually transforms you to a different person.

And, you know, it has been neurologically proved or scientifically proved that because of this intellectual support, what we get from an art form, any art form could be used as a therapy.

So, so like you, you would have, I mean, I'm just trying to use an example where the, with kids special needs, um, like a spectrum, if they're on a spectrum or if they have speech disorders, you would have heard about this music therapy, um,

or they would be on this noise cancellation headphones and they would be constantly hearing different patterns of music. It's just because it helps this art form helps their brain to calm down or to figure out stuff so easily and it transforms them to a person which they don't even know about. So the dance therapy is similarly very similar. So

And it's over here when I do dancing and I do something which is from my culture or which is from my part of the world, which people in America don't do often and they don't know about it. So for them, it's a different game altogether.

So when I tell them, hey, in this dance firm, you are this actor, you're this actress, or, you know, we are dancing with this mood, or we are representing this festival where people are actually celebrating life. So they actually get it.

or that sphere and they pick up the dance moves, which explains that, you know, this is what is they are representing today, which transforms them to a different person with that one hour of time. So, and after the class is over, they feel so good because they have actually experienced

you know, forgotten anything which was stressing them for that day or for some amount of time for that one hour. So that is why I call this as dance therapy, where people could actually move from one zone, what they're existing right now to another one and can actually stay in that zone forever.

for an hour. And as a teacher, as an instructor, that's what is what makes my job in this field very challenging, that how I can keep these people coming into the class engaged in that mood of the song, in that sphere, in that act, which I think is very important.

I want them to represent and be engaged for that one hour. So that's what is all dance therapy all about.

Oh, thank you. That's a great explanation. You know, it's first of all, let me say that, like, I've seen how this affects Sarika firsthand. Sometimes difficult things are happening at work, and you might be in a depressing situation and or whatever things are bad. And then like, I'll, I happen to know like which night she goes to teach dance class. She always comes back

the next morning energized again and like ready to deal with the problems and things like that. So I've actually seen how it does affect her and it's, it's actually a fairly startlingly strong effect for her. Interestingly, cameo, do you think podcasts count as an art form?

That's an interesting question. Certainly. But I think in a very different way than what we're talking about. I have a dance background as well, and I have a theatrical and musical background, and

the power of those art forms, I think, for me at least, and I think that it could probably be different for other people, but I think it is more powerful. And it might just be the love that I have for those art forms and the experiences I have. But certainly anytime that you're creating things, there is an artistic, you know, the very name, there's a creative element of that. And that's what art is, is creating.

Yeah. You know, the reason why that came to my mind is because like doing this podcast, maybe not to quite the same degree, but it actually does have a similar sort of effect on me because I have to stop and think about what are we going to talk about or something along those lines. And it is creative outlet for me. Yeah.

Well, and you're not just creating something for yourself. You're creating something with the intent of it being enjoyed by somebody else. Yeah. Which is also, I think, a part of why humans make art or participate in things like dance and music. It brings us so much satisfaction for ourselves, but it's also to share that creation with other people. It's part of where the power is.

Yeah. By the way, I didn't know that you were into dance cameo. I learned something new about you. Yeah, well, that's, I danced very, very heavily when I was, when I was younger. And I haven't done formal dance since I was probably 20. But I, I danced, I, I went on dance tours. I danced very, very heavily when I was young. Wow. Wow.

That's a great thing we learned today. Actually, what Cameo is saying, it's the same thing. A lot of people, they were attached to some kind of an art form and something happened in their life. It's like either they got busy with work or they had a lot of things to deal with the family. And there were things that which made them disconnect.

from this art form, whether it's music or dance. And those are the people also who have been coming to my class because they want to renew this feeling of getting into an art form again. And they always start from with a diverse kind of a culture where they learn about the culture, also learn about their dance styles. So in the theater where I teach, so they have African

They have dance styles and they have Mexican dance styles. They have Puerto Rico dance styles and they have Bollywood. So, you know, people come back learning about the cultures behind these dances and also get into that, you know, different dance form again. So I could totally relate to what Kimmy was saying.

By the way, just to kind of tie this into some of our past episodes. So I know Sarika wasn't there for those, but this podcast, a lot of the ideas came out of me reading David Deutsch's books. And one of the things that he points out that I think is very relevant here is that all types of art,

And you can see this with dance also. It's hard to vary, right? Trying to make a dance good, you can't just go do anything. It's difficult to come up with something that's beautiful, graceful, and interesting to watch, right, with a dance performance. Or in your case, that creates therapeutic moments.

um, situation for the person that because it's hard to vary like that, that, that implies that at least in some sense, it's objective. It's not just a subjective thing. It's something that requires real knowledge to be able to create, um, a good dance that accomplishes the purpose that you're trying to accomplish. Um, sorry, could tell us about the other things you do in your dance business.

Oh, I want to start with something which is getting super popular and it's very interesting, which is our Mom and Me classes. Oh, yes. What I noticed when I...

I have been taking my son to various classes and my friends have been taking their daughters to various dance classes. And I've noticed that, you know, parents are asked to drop the child in the class and pick the child up after one hour of the class. So the parents either talk to each other like they become friends and talk outside of the class or at home to

finish some of their work again, come back to pick the child. But I thought it would be interesting if I would invite some of the parents to see what I was doing with the child. And if you are okay, you can start dancing with the child. So that's how I came up with this concept of Mom and Me, Bollywood Dance Class. And we were, when I started the workshop,

one kid and you know the moment that they're really hesitant to dance and they were like no no we can't do it but I was like okay you can sit and watch you don't have to you know be away from the class it's a very family kind of class so and then now I have more than um we have two bachelors

So each batch has, one batch has eight kids of four years old. Second batch has 10 kids of between five to eight years old. And they all come with their moms, their elder sisters, and they actually participate in the dance class. So they not only learn the choreography in the class, but also go back home, practice, and when they come back in the next class, they have dance.

brilliant ideas on how we can improvise around those ideas. That's awesome.

So I love it. I love the energy which the parents are getting. They're very much involved in the class. So that's one class which I do on every Sunday, and it's called As Mom and Me. And then I have my adult classes in the RDT, which is our Rose Wagner Theater in Salt Lake downtown, which is like our dance therapy class where every class, I get there.

which relates to a story in India. So if it is a festival song, it would be one of the 30 or 14 festivals which we celebrate in India. And I tell them what that festival is all about,

why we dance like this, why the moves of the dance are like this. I showed them videos on how people are so passionate when they celebrate those dance moves in that festival. They really love getting into that mood and doing those moves with us.

So similarly, every Thursday, I kind of try to change the mood and the flavor of the song. Sometimes it's festival, sometimes it's classical based. I tell them we are going to do a couple of Indian classical moves in the song and what each moves mean. Sometimes I tell them, you know what, you know, we also have a similar culture where we go to prom nights or parties.

where we do party in the club like this and we sing like this and we dance like this and you know so every Thursday it's a different song it's a different mood different flavor from India and

And people really loved it. So those are like my dance therapy type of class. And then I have been, interestingly, once our classes got popular, a lot of high school started noticing that it would be a good thing to get students

you know, this diversity into our dance company of the high schools and have our high school kids be exposed to this culture. So right now, Bolly Pop, which is my dance company, is an official partner

night district high school olympus high school hillcrest high school where every once a year or sometimes twice a year we go and we tell them about we teach them a choreo of

four minutes which includes Indian folk dances, Indian classical dances and Indian Bollywood movie dances and we give them kind of a lecture, notes, videos as in what these what culturally these dance represent and it's a good education for them and it's a kind of a change for them what they have been doing regularly in the dance classes.

Apart from that, we have a good and great representation of Indian community in Utah. So we celebrate all the people who are fully-populated to perform in all these festivals. Then once the summer kicks in, you know how we have all these summer

which includes music, dance and dance performance. A lot of time we get invited there to perform. We are also an official partner with Colors Festival, which actually happens in three locations in Utah, which is Ogden, Salt Lake City and Spanish Fork. And in the Spanish Fork, it's coming up now in March 28th, where more than 10,000 people come over

all over North America to attend this festival. So it's a huge crowd which turns over where we make all of the crowd move through the Bollywood moves, folk dance moves, and they just absolutely love it.

So, yeah, this is all which I've been doing with Bolly Pop and this is all my activities have been till now. What is their significance in the dates of when those festivals are? Yes, so it happens at a particular time of the year and

And there is a story, always there's a story behind a festival. So there's a story which would, or there's, as we were talking about those religious myths. So those mythological stories have happened during that time of the year. So we celebrate the festival at that time of year. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah, interesting. So Colors Festival must be really big here because like I always know when it's going on because I'll be like in Walmart and there'll be people walking around with color all over their faces and all over their clothes. Have you not ever been to it, Bruce? I have not, but I've promised Sarika I'm going this year to see her dance. Yeah, the interesting thing, maybe the, it's,

I mean, the story is really big, but I think the interesting concept or the moral of Colors Festival is we celebrate and we just kind of everyone is colored. And so we just belong to one race of humanity. There is no discrimination of someone is white, someone is brown, someone is black. So that is what the color significance of the Colors Festival is.

Every race, religion celebrates this festival in India. And that is the concept which is liked by the people outside of India too. So when you're with your friends and all are colored in crazy colors,

And, you know, you take pictures. No one, I mean, you can't make out she's Michelle or she's Clara or, you know, everyone looks the same. So that's what is the significance. You go to the Kala festival and the priest of the Krishna temple starts talking. I mean, there's a little bit of good notes he talks about. This is the first thing he inaugurates the festival with.

And, you know, so I really love that concept. I think kids love, apart from getting colored and getting crazy, they also love, you know, celebrating it with their friends and family. So yeah, that's what Color Festival is all about. I think part of why it's so big here in Utah,

is kind of to your point, like the, the Indian community is not, is, is been here for a while. I remember when the Krishna temple was built, I grew up, you know, just South of Spanish Fork. And I remember going to it, you know, 30 years ago. And I remember, or maybe not quite that long, but you know, it's, it's kind of become this thing that's, that's a part of spring even in Utah that I think people really look forward to.

Yeah, I mean, it's a celebration of the spring as well. You know, everyone is done with the winter. Let's celebrate and welcome spring. Yeah, that's also a big part. And it's the same in India too. Like, you know, we celebrate or welcome spring with this festival. There are various reasons to do it. But yeah, that's what is one of the big significance I agree. So you guys have to come to Colors Festival. Yeah.

We will be there. I'll bring my little girl and we'll be there. Yeah, you would love it. You would love it. Yeah. And the way we have been growing in Utah with the concepts introduced in Colors Festival, it's amazing. It's like people have transformed music.

And then we have, we get into the mood where everyone gets to try some Indian classical moves and then the Bollywood moves and then the Indian folk moves. We make a big circle with everyone present there and we all dance together. I just love that whole positive energy the festival creates. That's just beautiful. So yeah, at least once in a lifetime you should experience

students that. So Sarika, you mentioned that you started dancing when you were like three and how you got started dancing. How is dance perceived in Indian culture and wanting to learn to do this?

I think for me, it's my mom who was really inclined towards art, music. So she wanted both of us, me and my sister, to do stuff in this field and try and get trained. So she was the one who introduced me to dance and take me to all the classes. And then even, you know, at one point of time, it was difficult for me.

go to different classes because of my course in the education side or the academic side. So she requested a teacher to come to my house and take tuitions in dance. So that is how I got into the dance. But as like any other art form, even in academic, it depends on who your teacher is and what influence your teacher is getting about that art form in you. So my teacher, Babu,

back in India is a big, big influence on me to take dance in a very positive way and use it as a positivity of your life. So he explained me each and every move, the story behind it, why we do it, how we do it. And it's just that his mere dedication and passion just kind of, you know,

had shaken me from top to bottom and I just get into into dance very easily because of that so because of that influence what he had on me um I also enjoyed a big part of my uh

then satisfaction what I get is from teaching. So when I'm able to teach and get a smile on someone's face, that's the best thing in the world for me. So as and when I was in high school and, you know, my teacher assigned me, you know, to teach stuff with junior kids or with kids coming, you

of high school who are coming to our different classes. So I realized, you know, even teaching is so, so beautiful in dance. So that's how I got more and more involved with dance and I could just never leave it.

It's wonderful. You know, I'm actually also very curious about what it was like to have to leave your homeland and your hometown and to come to America, come to a totally different country, come to

a totally different culture and to try to integrate into that. And what was that like? I mean, I think I would be scared to try to do that in reverse and go try to live in India. So how did that work out for you and how did that go for you? Yeah, totally.

Before I answer that question, let me tell you, India is a country with 1.4 billion recorded in 2019. So just imagine the population there. We have 26 states, 14 dialects, people talking in different languages in each part of India. So just that being the root cause, there is a lot and lots of competition all around. You'll have...

a lot of schools competing with each other, you know, in the job field, people competing with each other. It's just because we are so densely populated, you know, a big part of our culture also, our parents always teach us, you know, no, no, you need to be good at this, good at this, you know, we need to survive in this competition. So they make sure we are in a safe place. So we do, even if we are dancing, they make sure we do our academic, you know,

you know, we have our degrees, we go for, if required, go for different courses, so that make sure we survive in this 1.4 billion densely populated country. But so a big part of that is like, we also got into academics and started thinking about our career. And my husband, who is very good at academics, and he was, he wanted his

his research after his engineering and he was after his engineering, he had been working for a while and he wanted to do a research in medical equipments. And the research paper was very, very expensive back in India. So his company offered that, you know, come to US and United States and we have our headquarters here work for us.

And in turn, we will let you do your research and we will bear the cost for it. So we were like instantly, yes, we are coming.

Nice. So that was, that was, I mean, we just didn't think about anything because, you know, sometimes it's, you know, with the person whom you're living for a long time, what his dream and passion is. And, and, you know, if it just comes true, then yeah, let's grab it. So that's what got us to United States, honestly speaking. But yeah,

We actually had in back of our mind, you know, yeah, going and being there for some time is okay, but we just don't know if we want to stay there longer. Maybe we want to come back. And we just came with that 50-50 mindset to Utah.

Then his research work started and he started doing good. He loved the company, the work culture, people he met with. There was so much of job satisfaction which was there with him. So everything was very smooth. Then my son, he is a kid with

I wanted help. So I started reaching out people and people in Utah were so, so good. I mean, I can't, I don't have words to describe how I was welcomed in Utah. Every therapy session I went to, every therapist I met, every teacher I met, they were just spending immense amount of time on my side. So I thought, you know, I might not get this in India because it's such a...

every section, each class in India has around 60 to 70 students, like in one section. And you'll have A, B, C of first grade, A, B, C of second grade, and each section will be of 40 plus kids in that class. So I was like, I don't think so. You know, my son is going to get what he needs back there. So

So honestly, that was the second reason for me to stay back in the US. So this is how, you know, and then as and when I started meeting people around work, like, for example, Bruce, like every question, I mean, every silly question I have, he just finds time to answer it, irrespective of his busy schedule.

He'll make sure, you know, you know, this is what it works here. Maybe you're just doing in a different way. The funny part is I always failed to understand how the Americans thought of sexism. And I used to literally think everything is true. Yeah.

And Bruce will always tell me, I think you didn't get that. Bruce, I need to learn that from you, how people talk like this for years. So, and he was so friendly the way he treats me, you know, this is how it should be going, this is how it should be.

So yeah, I just constantly kept meeting people like that, you know, even in my dance classes and everywhere. And then once people started liking my dance classes, now I have a huge group of friends of all age groups who are always available for me. So it's just that love which I've got here, the support which I've got here just made me stay and I feel that, you know, I'm getting better opportunities here and that's

And that's how I kind of just stayed here. And I love eating every minute that I spend here. What type of difficulties or roadblocks did you face when you first came here, if any?

It would be those cultural stuff where sometimes it was difficult to understand the way people are talking with the accent. As I told, the sarcasm. Then I didn't know how things work in the shops here. Driving. We drive in India. We drive in right and you guys drive in left.

That's actually something interesting that Sarika would ask me about sometimes. She would come to me when we were first meeting and becoming friends. She would come and she would say, okay, can you help me understand if this is sarcasm or not? And ask me questions like that. So...

Yeah, it's just like, it's the whole culture which was a little different. But because for work, I always used to visit US, I kind of knew a few people here and there, but it's different rather than visiting for some time where people treat you like a guest.

And then it's different when you stay here all together and have to figure out things on your own. So, yeah, so the culture, the way things work here, how we drive, how, I mean, even the school curriculums are so different of my son over here versus India. So, yeah, everything to gradually learn that and accept that and not compared to what we have in India was challenging for me or difficult for me.

And of course, as an immigrant, at a lot of places, I feel that people just don't trust you instantly. They will ask you questions or they'll make you do something and then you have to build that trust on them. That was also very challenging, even at work. You know, a task given, I always have to complete that task or, you know, show that task has worked.

gone well to prove that you know I'm capable even if and I can do equally well who has done versus that was a challenging thing also for me

What was it like trying to integrate with Utah's kind of conservative religious culture that we've got here? Actually, that was the easiest part because, you know, it's just the same as in India. That's funny. So, you know, the more I learned about the conservative culture here, like how, you know, women, the reason why it's like that, like,

women were most of the women you know take care of the family they have you know big family to take care of house men is the one who goes out works so it's it for a longer period of time India has been like that I've always seen my mom doing stuff in the house um uh then it's changing now but you know it's it that's what was the similarity what I saw is you know um um

you know, that sacrifice and love which a family needs and all the needs in the family is mostly taken care by the family, by the women of the family and that is what is expected. So that was very similar and so

Interestingly, the caretakers I met over here to take care of my son while I'm at work, they all were so good. They loved kids. They liked to work with kids. I mean, it was so naturally coming out from them. So I love that part. So in that way, it is similar, like, you know, how your family culture is in Utah. It's very similar back in India there. Interesting. Yeah.

So that's, that's one thing. And then, you know, there are certain, there's a lot of places where you are as a father. I've seen that people are very, very possessive about their daughters over here. Like, you know, that's again, very similar back in India. So things like that, I found it's, it's, there is a lot of similarities, the way we operate as a family, you

And the way we operate back in India, it's the same thing. Interesting. So I thought it's a big thing.

So let's talk about kind of the ancient dance forms. You've mentioned this to me and I've come to see you dance at least once with the ancient dance forms. And I'm always impressed with how graceful it is. And I would really like to know more about that. And from what I understand from talking with you, it ties into your mythology and your religion and teaches morals. There's like a whole bunch around it that I would really like to learn more about.

Yeah, so it's interesting and I'll try to say and share whatever I learned from my teacher because all the dance forms in India, it's in 36 states. So each dance form is from one of the states but we have majorly seven to nine Indian classical dance forms.

Out of which six or seven is globally very popular. So we have Bharatanatyam, which is from the South India. We have Odissi, which is from the West, which I do. We have Kutubi.

So yeah, these are the various classical dance forms which are from India. And all the dance forms are almost 2,000 years old. 2,000 years old? 2,000 years old. That's amazing. Yeah, at least about my dance form, it's definitely 2,000 years old.

years old and my place where I grew up is actually called as land of temples in India. So there are more than 33 to 40 big temples, all 2000 years old, very beautifully preserved by our architecture department. And when you go around these temples, you can actually see all these stories depicted

or painted or crafted out there. So you can see whatever posters I find that, you would find one of the, I mean, all of those posters in this temple, but you can see them. So originally it started from, you know, that era where the poets or the people who were inclined towards art used to write stories and

And then those stories in form of paintings or statues were actually crafted in these temples all around. So that's a little bit ancient history behind these dance forms. But as we get into the dance and we

start learning this dance, there are each dance forms which will have different kind of postures and there's explanation why this posture is like that and it always represents a form of Hindu God. All of those

Okay, so just let me be clear here. There's like different postures in the dance and each of the postures represents like a different Hindu God. That's what you're saying, like in a dance. Yeah, that's where the postures are inspired by the Hindu God, which you are representing. There is also a lot of storytelling which happens in the same form and storytelling is called it

Abhinaya means you're using your face, your hand, your body to actually tell a story. So and so this and each story is about

about a Hindu God and how he was or what his character was in that story. I can say an example. Something which I do is Das Avatar. Das Avatar means ten incarnations. So we all know Avatar. We have seen Avatar movie, right? So it's like, it's nothing but an incarnation.

So we have 10 incarnations. So das means 10. So we have 10 incarnations of Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu is kind, I mean, he has different, like you can visually see him differently in different parts of the world. And he also has various names that people chant about. But all his stories, what is all about, you know,

victory of good over evil. So all his, he has always taken a different incarnation to come to the earth to save the humanity from one form of evil that is existing in that era. So all these 10 incarnations, there is a story he came as, so it's almost like the life of evolution. So he came first as a fish,

And then there was a place where there was an era where a demon had a power where he cannot die or no one can kill him. Any human cannot kill him. Any animal couldn't kill him. And he had a blessing like that from Lord Shiva. So Vishnu comes as half human and half lion avatar to Vishnu.

to put an end to this demon's life who is destroying humanity. So these are the kind of stories which are in every 10 eras where he comes and we dance and tell how powerful, how beautiful and how good

that era was and how the good conquered over evil. So this is one thing. Another is about Lord Krishna. Kamiya was just talking about the Krishna temple. So Krishna, Lord Krishna was born and there's a story behind how he was born and he was staying away from his actual mother in a village because

Ultimately, he had to grow up to kill a demon who's existing in the kingdom and who's trying to build his power and destroy humanity.

So Lord Krishna was saved all his childhood away from this kingdom so that he could grow up, come back and kill this demon. So there are a lot of stories in his childhood, which is so cute, where he's being raised not by his actual mother, but how much of love he has for this lady. And all that cute little things which happened between Krishna and Krishna.

his mother who was not actual, we actually depict them in a song, in a story and tell. We act like a kid crawling and then stealing the butter and then hiding behind the pillar and then playing peek-a-boo with the mom. We kind of show all that and kind of build that time of the year. So this

These are the things which we tell through any of the classical dance form, but it is so beautiful, just like ballet. Like once you start learning ballet here, the sense of rhythm, beat, how you should use your feet, how you should use your hand, the control you need to have over your body, it

it's just like beyond imagination. Then it's easier for that child to pick up any other dance form which is fast, which has a lot of moves, which has to do a lot of changes. So I believe classical dancing gets your body under control and it gives your brain to understand the sense of rhythm. And anyone who can conquer classical form of dance can actually do any kind of dancing.

But, you know, you have to choose. But, yeah, that's what is the beauty of Indian classical dance. So every time you see a performance, you will actually learn about a story behind it. Interesting. So, like, you mentioned that...

it depicts Lord Krishna's childhood and playing peekaboo or something like that. So that's like actually part of the dance is what you're saying. Yeah. So I'll be, when I'm dancing, I'll actually be two characters in the story. I'll be as a mom. I'll be like coming into the room and making butter and making everything look pretty and make food. And then I'll switch the

a different character of Krishna who's actually checking what his mom doing. I mean I will slowly hide and fight through things behind which you know the little kids do. So you switch characters and you actually perform and tell this is what his mom is doing, this is what Lord Krishna is doing and then how they both come together. So when I do classical performances here we actually narrate

what the story is all about. And while the narration is going, I try to act a little bit of the character so that the audience understands what they're going to expect from this dance or what they're going to see in this. And then we start dancing in the song, which is made for the story, and then kind of complete the performance.

So it's interesting that, I mean, like, there's like several threads that are coming together in this, which is part of what I find so fascinating about this. So, for instance, you mentioned that the moves from classical dance, that if you can learn those, that it teaches you how to do really any type of dance, which I...

That's very fascinating in itself. Also the fact that it's storytelling, it's acting, it's you're some degree doing a theater performance. Yeah. So yeah, that's a very good, good example. Like, you know, the theater performance as when we go to a theater and we actually see a play or something, how engaged can be with the actor. Same thing is it's very challenging. I mean, it's very challenging for the actors.

to engage the audience and keep the attention span of the audience looking at that person so I think it's the same with the classical dancing as well where you're not telling the story it's just without using words you're trying to describe in a song what the story is all about so even acting getting those expressions suppose I'm a demon I have to act like a body language like a

And the next minute, I become Lord Vishnu who is killing this demon. So when you play this part, the diversity which you have to get in your characters have to be so well managed with the timing so that the audience is not confused. So they have to recognize each character in that minute and not get confused

get confused what this person is doing so that's what is the most difficult challenging person of the dance this stands from and that's why we need to practice so much in front of mirror to make sure that you know um we are getting those characters clearly out there

How much do you have to actually practice? At least like for classical dancing, you would have, we start with the morning yoga. You have to do some stretches and there are certain moves in the body you have to practice before you actually get the song. But at least two hours a day is the minimum expectation then. Wow. Have to do. Yeah.

Yeah, amazing. Yes, at least two hours. Otherwise, it is very difficult to get that posture, get that. And another biggest challenge is when you tell these stories, it's very important for your body not to feel tired because any story or abhinaya, which I'm talking about, could go up to 10 to 15 minutes.

And that's a long time to, you know, be on the stage and do these difficult moves and then use the stage and maintain your stamina throughout. So until and unless you don't regularly do every day, that level of preparation is difficult to get on the stage.

Explain how this ties into the Hindu religion, kind of the spiritual side of this and how does it relate to the like you gave me a tour of the Hindu temple and, and as you mentioned there's all these sculptures there and Hindu scripture, how does it all kind of tie together.

Yeah, so that again, I mean, the teacher plays a big role in telling you, if he is teaching you a dance form or a song, which is a mythological story, which some point of the time happened in this art. So there is a big part is the explanation which goes behind that story where the

the student needs to believe that that actually happened. It would be the same thing like how we tell all the stories from Bible or from all the church stories which we tell to our kids. We tell it with so much of passion and so much of, you know, knowledge so that the child actually feels, you know, this person really knows or something like this have really happened. So they kind of believe that, you know, we need to do this.

do this, be kind, we need to be forgiving to our friends and family. So that's the same thing which goes behind. So the big part is the explanation on what the teacher says about the story and

And then we learn all the history behind that God. I mean, there are books. So we read books to understand that character, what has happened, how he has come into this earth, why he is like, if, for example, Lord Shiva, Lord Shiva is the

lot of power and lot of energy. And he went into the Himalayas and actually meditated. He had done meditation for around over 50 plus years in a row. So he had this long hair which just grew and, you know, there was all... He actually meditated in a graveyard in the Himalayas.

So he had all these bones, skeletons and bones around him. People were dying, but he was just meditating. Ultimately, he had gained that power and energy in him that he could do certain stuff. So, um,

So when I have to represent Lord Shiva, I read his books, I go through his stories, I go through the pictures. If there are movies made on Lord Shiva, then I watch those movies just to get that character and feel. And then we decide what we want to depict from his life. There are different stories. For example, there is a story where

where this whole humanity was in danger. And there were two teams who were fighting for a blessing. It was just like a holy water. And this holy water, whoever drinks that, that person will never die. So basically he will become dead.

powerful and will never die and in hindi we call that power as amar like you will never die so uh so to get this part a team of um a team of uh demon and a team of um the good people or what you say um

They were fighting against each other and Lord Shiva, and there was the story where if this falls down, this holy water falls down, it will turn into poison. So when they were fighting against each other, actually this holy water fell down and

because it'll go around everywhere and it'll kill people. So actually Shiva came and drank this poison and he turned blue, but he saved the humanity and the people around the earth. So that's the story which we are telling through our dance. So we read about it. We kind of get into that zone and how this would have happened. We go into small details that keep us

they're fighting, what should be the posture in the fighting, what should be the equipment which was available on those days and how they fight and what should be the background looking like and all that. So all that kind of research is done to get performance out.

So a lot of reading, a lot of going to different places, spending time with people who know about those stories is kind of the prep work we do before we get a performance out there.

Wow, that's amazing. So it really is a lot like theater and acting. Yes, yes. It's a lot of theater. Yeah, a lot of acting. I think there is a balance of acting and dancing because, of course, it's a dance form. So there is a good balance which you would find in acting and dancing. Yes, expression is a big part.

So that's why even when we do our makeup in Indian classical dancing, we paint our eyes and put series in a way where there is so much focus in your face. So I put a big red.

red dot in center of my eyebrows. So, you know, that draws people's attention. Those are the small detailing which is done, like your face, your eyes, your ornaments you're wearing, your costume which you're wearing. I mean, those are very thoughtfully planned so that it could grab people's attention and it would kind of force people to look at you. And then it's your job to

to move your body language in a way where they cannot take your eye off you so that they could watch the whole performance. Those are also the kind of preparation which we go through. Do you find it's hard to keep this cultural identity and this art form alive now that you're here instead of in India? Yes.

Because, you know, it's difficult. I think there it's, we just grew up with it so much. It's almost in our blood that, you know, we instantly realize or relate to what my teacher is saying. But over here, you have to put an extra effort

as in, you know, why this is like this or the story is like this or to make people, you know, get into that, to get that feeling and then to express is difficult. Like my son, he's growing up here. He doesn't know any, I mean, he doesn't know anything about Indian culture. I mean, whatever I tell or get time to. So if I have to tell a story and he'd be like, really? So, you know, it's, it's tough. It's tough. It's,

It's tough being away from India and trying to practice. So that's why I'm, my next goal is to start practice classes in the temple where all these kids come, all the Indian kids who have been staying away from India, they just come and I'm practicing and I'm,

I will offer them that practice with me. And then I would be curious if they start asking questions. And then I think I'm going to prepare some kind of content for them so that, you know, slowly they start liking the stories. They want, since they like the stories, they want to act it out, things like that. So there would be a little preparation which has to go, but I think I'm going to do that very soon in Indian temple here.

That's awesome. All right. Well, Sarika, thank you very much for coming on the show. This has been very, very fascinating. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I love learning about stuff like this. You know, Sarika often eats lunch with me, and this is like what we talk about a lot, is she tells me, teaches me about her culture and things like that. That's one of my favorite things of being friends with her is to be able to learn things like this.

And then I'll explain things to her from our culture and things like that. And it's actually a very productive exchange.

Well, please invite me. Cause I, I work pretty close to you guys. I'd love to occasionally sit down and participate in that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I want to meet you too. So let's plan on that soon. Yeah. I would like that very much. I'll set that up. I'm sure Carrie would want to join too. Yeah. And we missed Carrie. So. Yep. Hopefully she'll, we'll get her next time, but yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys. This is a, been a great episode. Um,

And thank you for coming. Thank you, Bruce. Thank you, Sarika. Thank you, Bruce. Thank you, Samuel.