Ep 1005 | The Billy Graham Rule: Is It Wrong for Unmarried Men & Women to Be Alone Together?
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I am unashamed. What about you?

Welcome back to Unashamed. We've explained this to you before. To you, you've had a day or two in between. We just have five minutes. We're kind of continuing our discussion. And Jason, we realized when we were getting ready to roll back in, we started your duck hunting story and somehow we got into dad and everything else. Then we never finished. We never finished. It's another unfinished story. Well, we were talking about, you know, one of the guys that Phil was instrumental in bringing to the Lord was...

a guy that we know affectionately as Jersey Joe. And I've helped him in his growth process, not just being a Christian, but just learning how to be a Louisiana person. Right, which he now considers himself to be. He's full Louisiana. And it was a bumpy relationship at first. It took us a few months to get over me saying, which this is going to sound horrible what I said,

And maybe I probably should have said it better, but we're men. We're in a boat and there were three very large men in the front of the boat. And the boat was moving at one mile per hour. I told this story in a previous podcast. And the reason it was going that slow is because these three heavy men were on the front of the boat. And they're so heavy that it actually had the propeller of the motor out of the water. Wow.

And I waited five minutes as we're drifting. We're just drifting toward the bank. And the propeller's above the water. It's above the water. Because I was waiting for one of them to realize we're never getting to the bank unless somebody moves back so the propeller can go under the water. But nobody wanted to be that person. But nobody moved and nobody thought of it. They're not talking. They're all just looking.

And we're literally moving at the pace of the wind. And so. At this point, you're adrift. In that moment of frustration, I said, hey. And they all turned around and went, hey. They all turned around and I said, one of you fat boys moved back.

So we can get to the bank before dark. Well, then they all froze. Because who wants to be the bad one? Who wants to say, oh, he must have been talking to you, so, you know. Yeah.

So Jersey gets up and moves right beside me, and he said, I think we need to work on our relationship. Well, I laughed, and I said, well, I was only kidding, but y'all are large individuals, and it was a physics problem. So...

But you learned it from the best because dad would say, hey, too many honey buns. Well, right. Too many honey buns. So I confessed later because I heard his feelings. I said, well, I probably could have worded that better. So I apologize. But he was like, no, you were right. You were right. We should have thought about we're never going to get to the back. I was more concerned about that. I don't think of Jersey as a big boy, though. Is he a big boy?

He's gotten a little bit big. He'd put on a few. I think he's a lot smaller now. That helped propel him. Thanks to you. See what I did there? It helped propel him to drop a bag of corn, which weighs 50 pounds. So that had happened. So today, you know, we went duck hunting. I didn't finish the story. So Jersey came and another guy.

And so we go, we only shot five ducks. We don't have a lot of ducks, even though our opening day was really good. And so we get back to the bank today. No problems. Now, he did raise up, and he said he thought he heard somebody say, get him, which no one said. And there was a duck that had made two circles and was going away. I thought he's fixed to turn back and come, and I just hear, boom.

And I look out in the decoys because I'm thinking nobody is shooting in the decoys. But Jersey said he thought he heard somebody say, get him. So he shot at that duck, which in my opinion was out of range. Yeah.

And he didn't get him. Well, did he hit him? No. He said, I thought I heard somebody say something. He said, my bad. So I didn't. Yeah. I thought, you know, we all. Yeah, I didn't say anything. Because would you get upset if somebody called you fat boy? No, it happens all the time. So, well, I told you, look, I'm not saying I was justified in doing that. I just thought we're all men. This is kind of funny that none of them are moving.

But, you know, I probably shouldn't have said that. But it kind of helped our relationship. And it caused him to lose 50 pounds. So here we go. It's just the motivation. So we get back to the bank. Very kind of you. We get back to the bank. We have five ducks. And Jersey said, oh, no. I said, what? He said, I left my, what do you call those little cameras? I left my GoPro in the blind. Well, he's from New Jersey. He's never seen.

operated a mud motor. And most people that I've seen operate it for the first time, the first thing they do is run into a tree. So I said, well, there's a P-row. Have you ever been in one of those? And he said, yeah, yeah. I said, well, you know the way.

I said, now, if you tump it over, if you turn the boat over, which is a very serious, I mean, a very likely scenario. I said, remember these two words, stand up. It's not over your head. He was looking like, are you seriously recommending that? I said, we're going to do podcasts. I don't have time to drive back and get it because it's pretty good ways away. And he said, well, I said, it'll be an adventure.

So you're encouraging him. Yeah. Or I just said, or the next time I'm up there, I'll pick it up. And he said, no, I need that tomorrow. I said, well, there's a P-Row and there's a paddle. And so right before we started this podcast, I heard him pull up there because I was a little worried about him. I thought, you know, it's an adventure, but I want him to come out safely. Yeah.

You want him to live. Yeah, we want him to live. We love Jersey. And I said, well, I said, you're dry. I said, did you get it? He said, well, you know, with this thick Jersey accent. He said, I was so proud of myself that I remembered the way. I got there. I didn't turn over the P-Row. I go up the ladder. There's my GoPro. And he said, I'm walking down the ladder. And he said, I tripped and fell. Wow.

And the GoPro went under the water. That's anticlimactic there. The easiest part of the whole adventure was getting out of the blind, and that's the part that got him. So then I noticed that his right hand up to his shoulder was wet. Yeah.

And he said, but I got the GoPro. And I was like, well, good luck looking at that footage. I think the GoPros are waterproof, aren't they? That's what he said. He said, but, you know. So there's the trainee. That's the life of a duck hunter. Oh, man. I wish we had Joe on here to get his take on it. It reminded me, Jason, you're telling this story about the fat boys in the front.

We were on a mission trip one time and Gordon, Zach's dad was there and Ben was with us. And we were, I think we were heading to Dominican or Haiti or someplace. And, uh, Gordon was up front. We were further back and we had a pretty large group. There were about 20 of us. So we had most of the plane. It was a small plane leaving that Monroe. And so the flight attendant comes on and says, we need someone in rows one through four to move to the back. Um,

Because we have a weight issue in the plane. So there's not a – and there's some empty seats up there toward the front. This isn't like first-class front. This is a little bit of a plane. Yeah.

And so nobody makes a move. Well, Gordon is one of the people in one through four. And so we're all start laughing because we're like, look, Gordon's not going to make the move. He's not going to be the one that takes that walk of shame to the back. And so then she says, she goes back on like a minute goes by. She says, could somebody in rows two or three? Yeah.

So the circle's shrinking. So we're shrinking down. And then so we start doing commentary from the back. Could the man with the large head in row 3A. And so Gordon finally gets up and just shuffles back in shame. When you actually feel the plane level out, it was you. It was you. Yeah.

That's funny. But I will say this. When we got back from Florida with the presidential mayhem that happened that we shared about missing, I actually got invited opening day to Arkansas duck season and went. And it was a top five duck hunt of my life. Really? Where did y'all go?

We went in the middle of nowhere. I can't tell you the exact place because the guy who invited me probably wouldn't like me saying that. And it's his land. But still, there's just some things that you just don't need to discuss. But it was as fine of ducks in your face. We shot 30 ducks in less than an hour, 20 mallards, which was the limit.

And no duck that came in got away. Got them all. And they were all backpedaling. I would say the furthest shot was 25 yards and the closest was about 10 feet.

It was absolutely. You said you were in Arkansas? I was in Arkansas. When it's right in Arkansas, it's right. I mean, there's probably no better place. Were you in woods? Were you in timber? It was like a little, what do they call these things? WRP. Yeah. And this guy had bought it. It would have already been under WRP, but the trees were kind of short, a lot of grass, everything natural. No, he didn't plant anything, just natural vegetation. He's got about 300 acres flooded.

Of course, it was opening day. And when we pulled up there, you know, five minutes before legal, when I shine my spotlight where they were putting the decoys and I thought they're putting the decoys way too close. I didn't realize how small the hole was, though. I could see a feather every 10 feet. Oh, boy. And my dad used to have a ratio, which I guess he still does.

that he would say for every feather that you see, that means there were 10 ducks there. Well, that was a, it was just solid feathers. So I thought, okay, I think that if we do that ratio, well, Phil's ratio was right because they just, it was just a wave of ducks that started as soon as the, you know, legal shooting hours. And we waited about 10 minutes cause they were filming this for duck commander. So I'm sure it'd be out there somewhere. Um,

And we would call and just a few of them would just lock up and they'd make about two passes. And I mean, right on top of the decoys. Right. And it just repeated itself. And so usually every year I have this moment because we don't get pintails till real late.

And so I have this anticipation of when I kill my first pintail drake. And I've killed one every year of my duck hunting career. Although a couple times, it was literally the last week. I was finished that. It's usually in January. Usually in late January. Well, I heard Martin, you know, from Duck Commander. He was back there with the cameraman. And we had four of us in the blind. Because the...

Ducks were working around. We were working three mallards. They were coming, and he said, there's your pintail, Jace. And I looked up, and there was just a big, beautiful bull sprig hovering in the decoys.

And I kind of blacked out and shot him before I could even think. It was a boom. Forget about the three mallets. Yeah, forget everything. And forget about all that. Well, the guy that invited me, Clay, he's one of my good friends. He's like, I guess you wanted that pintail. I was like, I don't know what just happened. I just saw that and thought, oh, my goodness.

Boom. And it happened, which tells you most of the times you overthink. Cause I don't remember aiming. I don't even remember getting up. It just boom. And that's usually two phrases you don't want together. Brandon, I just blacked out and I shot. Yeah. That's usually not a good conversation. But this time it worked out. It was just a beautiful. So speaking of duck season, you see my shirt I'm wearing, Jay. This is, um, just the season. And I did that for you. And that's Tony, uh, Thomas, our brother-in-law. Oh,

Designed this shirt. So if you want to, if this is a good idea for a Christmas gift, Tony Thomas Art. So that's the duck hunting report. A lot of ducks in Arkansas, Louisiana. Not so much, but they're coming. They're coming. So Chase, I don't know if you knew this or not, but some of the best ways to let people know what you're into is to

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So, Brandon, welcome back. Brandon's still with us. He was with us on the last podcast as well. And Jace, so you did the classic move. We have a minute left in the podcast.

And then you went to the text, Colton. Is it Colton? Yeah, Colton. Colton's text. Yeah. Which was a very, it's a great question about John 14. What were the rooms in the father's house in John 14 too? Yeah. And so you read your response to him, but we didn't really get a chance to react to that because it was so strong. Because I dropped in a little joke there at the beginning about mansions over the hilltop, which is an old song that,

that basically paints the picture that we're all waiting to get to heaven to find our mansion, find this house. But really, it's not at all what he's, the context of it. It's not what he's, the context is him going to the right hand of God. He's predicted it. We're in the book of John. He hasn't left. And I've said this many times. If you look at Genesis to Malachi, as it is concerning Jesus,

it's predicting that he's coming. Yeah. There's a Messiah. There's a King. There's a son of man coming and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Well, he's here. The first line that Jesus says in, uh, I think it's Mark. Y'all been studying Mark's young fact. Check me on this. He says, the time has come. Yeah. The King is here. The kingdom is, is at hand. He's the King. And so, uh,

He's now giving a shadow more predictions about what's going to happen. And so John 14, 15, and 16 is all about him promising this Holy Spirit of which he has. Yep.

being poured out on people, and it will be in you. So he makes that illustration about the Father's house in many ways, and I'm going there to prepare a place for you. Well, when you tie that in with the book of Hebrews, you realize that he's actually presenting himself as our sacrifice. Yep.

In the throne room of heaven, which was a shadow of this trying to come into the presence of God in the Old Testament under this system of rituals and rule keeping, which Jesus fulfilled in his death on a cross, his resurrection, and...

His coming into the presence of God on our behalf. Meanwhile, he pours out the spirit in Acts 2, makes it available for human beings who surrender to him. And that is the message of the Bible. That's the message. And I would argue that John 14, 15, 16 were the three most significant chapters we look at, but it's just in a letter. But the three most significant chapters of everything Jesus told his disciples were

And I'm sure when they reflected back, once they got to those moments in Acts 1 and 2, they realized that then it was like, oh, this is what he was talking about. This is what we're going to do. It's a primary text on the Holy Spirit, too. Exactly. So I think when you think about the role of the Holy Spirit is to live in the believer. But it's interesting, when you ended that last podcast, you ended in Hebrews 9,

You started in 23, and I think you, no, you started in 24 and 25. In my Bible, I have, so you went from John 14 to Hebrews 9. In my Bible, I actually have John 14, 23 written by Hebrews 9, 23. And if you go to my Bible in John 14, 23, I have Hebrews 9, 23. So I was going to read that.

That's weird. So in John, it says, Jesus answered him, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him. And here's the money line right here. And we will come to him and make our home with him.

I mean, that is the core of what's happening is that God, the triune God, by the way, because he says we will make our home with him. And so when you go to Hebrews 9, it says this, I mean, Hebrews 9, 23, it says this, thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves were

And here's the reasoning why.

So the temple was a copy. That's the thing that got Jesus killed. And in Acts 7, it's the thing that got Stephen killed when he said, the Lord your God does not dwell in temples built by man's hands. Why? Because those are copies of things. Or Acts 17, when Paul says, the Lord your God does not live in temples built by man's hands. Well, why? Because those are copies of things. So then the question is, well, where does he live?

Well, he lives in people now. He lives in human bodies. I mean, me and Brandon talk about this all the time. Yeah, well, in tying it back to our text here, Colossians 3, verse 2, set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.

And so how do you make sense of that when he says on things above, not on earth? Is it I don't care about my job. I don't care about my kids anymore. I don't care about my home. Well, no, that's of course not what he's talking about. Just like he's not talking about some house that he's building up in the clouds. He tells us what that is in verse five, put to death, therefore, what is earthly, which

And then he goes on to give that whole list. These are the earthly things that were to put to death. And what the things are above are the things that are of Christ, who he is and who we're becoming now that he's inside of us, which he lays out down below in 12 and 13. And I think the idea of there, that emptying that you're talking about, because you think about just what Zach described, when you think about the

versus the earthly, we think about that in a spiritual sense in the temple and things that were trying to happen. That also describes us.

the earthly nature of who we are is to respond in a way that other people would on earth who don't know, who don't know Jesus. Right. So we, so I broke those three, all that big list down into three different sections. One is our desires. And that's where he gets into sensuality, impurity, lust. And so you think about it's that which I would do that, which I would think that, which would motivate me in desires. Then he tells us about your reactions, right?

How do I react to things? Rage, anger, malice, slander, filthy, the things that I would react to a situation. And all those are unhealthy, but they're very earthly and they're very real. We see it every single day, right? You cut somebody off in traffic, you'll see a lot of these responses because that's instantaneous what our earthly desires are. And then the third one is the language itself. And that's when he talks about the lying language.

The filthy language. In other words, that which we say, which is reflective of that who we are. And so when you look at our desires, our reaction, our language, that which is earthly is what entraps us if we stay there. I mean, I don't know that anybody wants to be bitter. I don't know that anybody that wants to constantly be lying about stuff. I mean, like I said, it's a hard place to live.

to constantly be in fear of what you're going to say, how you're going to react, or to wind up in a situation where you are unfaithful to your wife or something. And yet there are people that live under this siege every single day. It's a hard life. I mean, those of us that have lived it even for a little while, you realize it's very entrapping in terms of what it is. Yeah, and I think that's the – you can't – because I think if you come out of a –

more of a legalistic church, or it may be a background where a lot of this came out of, that it was all about what you couldn't do, and you were trying to will away sin. I'm going to somehow, in my own ability, and I'm just going to control all of my desires, and I'm going to get them all under control. I'm going to make sure that they don't get it. You're just too passionate. Tame those passions.

And you're trying to will it away. And you do it, according to Colossians, through these different measures of self-discipline. Not in a way that... I mean, there's stuff that's important, but I'm going to deny myself of all these things to prove my loyalty. And Paul says that those things lack any restraint. Yeah.

and against the, like any value in restraining the sensual indulgences. And you can't beat sensuality that way. We talk about this in our first podcast on the Not Yet Now podcast that we talk about that you have to have a motivator that works. And the motivation is not to diminish desire, but is to properly orient your desire. But you can't do that without

without God revealing to you what he has prepared for those who love him, which is unimaginable. We can't imagine it in our minds. And I can't imagine what the good things that God's prepared for me unless...

I have the mind of Christ. That's Paul's language in 1 Corinthians, that you can't know the mind of Christ unless you have the Spirit of Christ in you. And so that's the importance of what we're talking about here, of this coming of Christ coming to live in us, because when that happens, he does it through the Holy Spirit. And when the Holy Spirit lives in us, now we can begin to receive

mind of Christ. And that's where the liberation ultimately comes from. Yeah. And I think it's helpful to talk about it from both a negative and a positive perspective. So negatively, I love that John Owen quote, be killing sin or sin will be killing you. And so we have to put these things to death because they are dangerous. God's not trying to keep us from something. But you mentioned, Al, that the reaction in traffic, we have this couple at our church who

Um, and they, they were on their way back from Tennessee, uh, driving from their Lake place over there. And it was late at night and they got T-bone both, both cars total, both their trucks ruined, uh, 17 year old kids gets out of the other truck and he walks over. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm, I can't believe I did this. I just didn't see you. And they're trying to comfort him a little bit. And then he, he just breaks down crying and they're like, what's wrong?

And he says, well, this was my grandpa's truck. He loved this truck.

And the lady in our church, without missing a beat, just goes, I promise your grandpa loved you more. That type of response comes from somebody who has been formed, who Christ is alive. It's not anger. It's not entitlement. It's not yelling at him for ruining their brand new truck. And they were in a brand new, really nice truck. Her heart immediately went to, how do I love this guy and remind him that he is loved?

Zach, we're pulling into the holiday season. Are you counting every dollar?

Because you've got a lot of gifts to buy. You've got a lot of family. Yeah, I'm on a budget. We just got on a budget. So we just finished our first month, and we were over budget by $4.18. Oh, you're doing pretty good. As we're all trying to look for ways to watch our cash, Upside app is a great place to give you opportunities to earn back e-mails

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That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. Use the promo code unashamed. No, and I think you're exactly right. It shows you, it's like one guy told me one time, never fall in love with a hunk of metal because you'll always be disappointed. And I think that's exactly what this text is talking about. And it was interesting as well. When you think about these first light versus one through four, uh,

I mentioned that you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. It's the way Jesus put it simply as the greatest command. And then the second part of this in five through nine is our reactions, right? To people and the things, our desires, the way you interact with people, relationships, how we communicate.

And that falls in line with the second commandment, which is love your neighbor as yourself. And so Jesus took all these points that Paul's laid out here in these first nine verses and simply said, you can sum it all up very astutely and simply. If we love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, we will fulfill what these passages are talking about because we are fulfilled with Christ. Well, I think Jesus became the model.

You know, when you look at all these qualities and you read the four gospels, you start saying, I have this person inside of me. Yeah. And every time I read the gospels, I think, well, I got a lot to work on here. Because it's just, he was choosing people who we tend to view or put into a box, you know. And remember you had the woman caught in sin. And you're like, what are you going to do? I mean, nobody...

is going to take up for this woman. Well, but he did. And somehow got her, gave her the charge to go leave her life of sin. But he did it based on grace and got other people to throw down the rocks. And you're like, man, that's a tricky thing, you know, for me to figure out how to do. But I think it's bigger than that. And that, you know, when he said this mystery of godliness is Christ in you, you become God.

Yeah. With that kind of love. And so I think you really see that at the end because having the Holy Spirit of God in you and having this access to the Father and this communication line is open, it's just a different perspective. One of the stories that kind of popped into my brain when I was researching this was in Mark 9. And I kind of saw it in a different way, just thinking I have faith.

Christ in me and setting my heart on things above where Christ is seated. Because when it says that set your hearts, which leads you then to start thinking about what that means, which is why we read the Hebrews 9. And you're like, he's up there. He's made the presence of God available.

to all of us humans despite the fact that we're so sinful yeah and i've given my life to him he's moved in so i should be operating like him i mean because y'all talk about that not yet now and i think romans 8 11 should be your theme verse because it says if the spirit of christ is living in you

then he who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal body. So you're going to be resurrected. But that first little statement says the spirit of Christ is living in you. Well, that's actually happening. So what does that look like? And it should look like Jesus. But I think this story in Mark 9 that I want to read really kind of gives some weight to what Paul is saying in Colossians. Because you remember verse 20 says,

They had a guy who was, it was the healing of a boy, you know, with an evil spirit. And in verse 20, they bring him in. And when the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth. And Jesus asked the boy's father, how long has he been like this? From childhood, he answered, it has often thrown him into the fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything...

Take pity on us and help us, which is what we do as humans. We're like, this has been going on so long. And so we, I mean, it doesn't seem like a bad question if you can do anything. But Jesus, he seems to respond like, if you can, if you can, if you can do anything, said Jesus, everything is possible for him who believes.

Immediately, the boy's father explained, I do believe. Help me overcome my unbelief. Because he was asking this silly question, if you can do anything. I mean, this is the creator of the universe down here. So when Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the evil spirit. You deaf and mute spirit, he said, I command you come out of him and never enter him again. The spirit shrieked, convulsed.

him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said he's dead, but Jesus took him by the hand, lifted him to his feet, and he stood up. After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked privately, and this is the point I want to get to, well, why couldn't we drive it out? And he replied, this kind can come out only by prayer, which seems to

Like only by prayer? Well, wouldn't they have known that? I mean, isn't that the most simple thing that we are able to do? We can pray to God. And I think in that moment is where we miss the power of what just happened here. Because we're kind of like the if you can do anything thing.

type of people. We're like, well, you know, if you can, it's not, I mean, we talked about my dad and his condition, but I believe not, I'm not going to pray if you can do anything. I believe everything is possible for him who believes.

And I think that's the difference in realizing you have the spirit of Christ and the access that is given to us. We should be the everything type of people and not the anything. That's right. Yeah, I think so much of our lives, we view it as to just survive. If I can just get by. But as you were saying that, I was reminded of Romans 8, 11. The spirit of God who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you.

And Paul says it a different way in Ephesians 1, basically the same spirit that empowered Jesus to raise from the dead is already at work in us. And you look at the tense of these verbs in Colossians, you have been raised with Christ.

You have died and your life is hidden with Christ and God. All of these things are already true of us, but we often just don't see it. We often miss that and we forget that that is the power working in us and that we're not called just to be defensive and go on the retreat, but we're actually called to move forward in the power of the Spirit and love.

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And then he gets into kind of, and that's more of, I would say, a positive side. And then on the negative side, he then, once that's established, he gets into putting to death the misdeeds of the body would be the language of Romans 8. But here he says, put to death, therefore, what is earthly in you, which would be the misdeeds of the body. Sexual immorality, impurity, passions, evil desires, covetedness, which is idolatry, on these things,

On account of these, the wrath of God is coming. And these you too once walked when you were living in them. But now you must put away with anger, wrath. So we do put away with this stuff. It's not that God's saying, no, just don't do anything. He is, I mean, we are instructed to not behave in this manner and to put these things away. Anger, wrath, malice, slander. I've seen talk from your mouth. Don't lie to one another. See that you have put off the old self.

with its practices and have put on the new self. So he switches right back to the positive. You put on the new self. Don't do the stuff of the old self. And I love the language here when he talks about the past of something that's already been accomplished, which is us putting on the new self. It doesn't end there, though, because he says he has very progressive language when he says, which is being renewed.

in knowledge after the image of its creator. And I think identity is so important to this. And you think, man, I wonder why we live in a culture right now where identity is like under attack. Yeah.

Like we've been told that your identity is whatever your sexual desires are. That's actually your identity is what our culture tells us. And it's all about my identity and what I identify as. And here are my pronouns or here's my thing, whatever it is. But what is that? It's an attack on the very nature of who you are. And I think that's why Paul here is rooting this idea of living in Christ. He said, come back.

to your identity. That's what the Holy Spirit is doing in you is He is...

constantly renewing the knowledge of what you are as an image bearer, that you are actually made in the image of God. He's returning all the way back to Genesis 1, verse 26 and 27, when the Bible says, let us make man in our image. In the image of God, he created them, both male and female. That's what's being restored in us as we put to death the misdeeds of the body, we put off the old self, and remember that we have put on the new self. And that's why human answers...

will not solve earthly problems. I mean, we only just create more. And it's Allie Beth's book on toxic empathy. She does such a great job of showing when human beings try to apply their solutions to spiritual problems, it just creates more problems. And then the empathy that you think is a good thing becomes toxic. You know why that's true, though? You know why that's true, though? Because if you start with yourself first,

to make meaning of the world, this is why it doesn't work because you are a finite creature. Correct. And so if, if I have, if I'm, it's like this whole gentle parenting thing that's so popular right now. Um, and I was thinking about this, like, like I'm going to let my kid, my two year old kid,

they're going to dictate the rules and I'm going to follow them. And they're going to tell me what they want. And I want to, I'm going to submit to what they want and just let them figure it out. And that works until they run against another kid who is also being gentle parented. And what happens when they want the same toy, right? I mean, think about this. Like we're beginning with ourselves here. I'm letting you figure this out on your own. I want, I don't want to be that overbearing parent. Well, then that works inside the context, maybe of my family until I'm over a friend's house and there's one,

one little toy truck on the floor and both two-year-old boys want the same thing, then who wins? Who gets it? Who will get that truck? The biggest kid or the meanest one. Whoever's got the most power. Whoever is the toughest. The toughest or the meanest. That's exactly right. So then might becomes right. Yeah. Right? And so then power becomes the whole thing. Whoever can dominate...

And when that's how we determine truth and reality is through is through just pure dominance. And if you just look back at history, that has been the pathway to millions, hundreds of millions of people being murdered. That that mentality. I want to tie that thought back to what Jace brought up earlier with the woman.

That was called an adultery in that setting. Cause remember the setting was they brought her in, whoever brought her in to trap Jesus was the, was the why they did it. They wanted to put him in a, they thought an unwinnable situation again, thinking like human beings, but look at the choice he puts to the people. There's a group of people standing there who have a legal right to

to stone this woman. I mean, in the law, it says someone called it the act of adultery. They can be stoned. Now there were a lot more process that had to happen other than being in a Bible class, but that was, they had a legal right to do what they were contemplating. And Jesus puts the question to them. Okay, you're right. You got the legal, right? So I tell you what, the one who now has no sin, you've never seen, you start the process.

So he puts the human condition right back to them. Okay. Anybody that can rise above this woman and say, you've never made a mistake. You be the first one to throw the stone. And it said, it started with the older ones and went down to the young and they all walked away. And then he looks at her and says, has no one stayed to condemn you? And she says, no. Then he tells her, then leave your life of sin, which is interesting because

At a spiritual sense, the only solution we have to our human problems and our earthly problems are him or Jesus. It's not going to be anybody else. So just because you have a gang of people that all agree something needs to be done, you don't have the answer to what needs to be done. Well, that's why that story is, I mean, all the stories are in there. We get to see the character of God lived out in a human body.

his name was jesus yeah and you know i think back on my life a story popped into my head i don't think i've ever shared this but you know when i was a teenager i was literally there was a span where i was just on fire for jesus aggressively because people that are younger i've now realized are more open to hearing about jesus and so it just started you know once we kind of started

becoming outspoken about Jesus. We were just baptizing tons of people. I had met my wife, who we were dating, and we would go out to camp every year for weeks. I mean, with no distractions. Six weeks. Yeah, you're sharing Jesus. Well, one night I was out there at camp, and I'm sitting there, and I feel an affectionate,

of rubbing my shoulders, but kind of in a way where I thought it was my future wife while we were dating, Missy. Because no other human that I know of outside of like my mom or something, and I knew she wasn't out there. So I turned around. Well, it's not my, it's not who I'm dating. It's, and she wasn't ugly.

And she said, hey. As if that mattered. Well, it mattered because I was so shocked. You know, I'm on a spiritual high. And, you know, the verse, I wasn't thinking set your mind on things above. I'm thinking, because she rubbed my shoulders for a while and I thought it was my wife. Yeah. Which made for an interesting conversation later. Because other people saw this. I was going to say, what did Missy think? She's like, hey, what's going on?

How long did she rub your shoulders for? I would say for 15, 20 seconds. I was like, ooh, this feels good. But when I turned around, it wasn't the person I thought was doing it. So she said, hey, and she said her name, which now look.

This is what my dad used to say. You know, you should treat this moment like a bull rattlesnake. Like you have almost stepped up by a bull rattlesnake. You just stepped over a copperhead. I'll never forget this because she said, because they did a thing during camp week where you went on a moonlight hike. Moonlight hike. That's where Willie and Corey met. Yeah. So she said, who are you going on the moonlight hike with? And I said, without hesitation, I said,

Jesus. And she looked at me and she's like, well, maybe who is she? No, she just said, well, maybe I need to know more about him. And I said, I'll line it up. And so she said, well, will you share sharing with me? But after what had just happened,

And there was a group of girls that I knew were spiritual. And I said, hey, you know, I holler one of the name. I was like, we all study with her because I thought I am. I am ending because we already started the Bible study on the wrong foot. Wrong foot. I'm not doing the back rub. And then me or you going to be alone. But I'm just trying to practically say in that moment, you know, I was I was really thinking about Jesus Christ.

being king of kings at the right hand of God, I have his spirit. And it was the opposite of throwing rocks. It was just, I just thought, I don't want anything to do with this. And look, that girl did come to Christ. And I gave her a thumbs up from a distance. But I just thought, I'm not, my mind was not on earthly things in that moment. And I was perfectly content with

who I was with in that relationship, which would turn into my lovely wife. And since you weren't sure where she was, you had a Joseph moment where you literally said, I'll run over here. I thought it was too awkward, you know, in light of what we're reading here. And I mean, it's a kind of a silly story, but it scared me because I was like, I mean, this woman come up and put her hands on me and didn't even know me.

And I thought, no, we're not. We're not. I don't. And doesn't that really describe what was it? I can't remember where Paul said it, but he said, you know, we live on the earth, but we're not of the earth. Yeah. And that's the difference. Of the world. Yeah. Of the world, but not of the world. Not of the world. I think you got to love Jesus more than all these sinful things that you get into. I mean, here's a.

I was in that moment looking at her as a created being from God who needs to be back with her. You were looking at her as a potential sister in Christ. Exactly. That's a poor way to start a relationship. Correct. It was just inappropriate, in my opinion. Yeah. And it scared me. And I told my wife exactly what happened. And at the end, after she was a little concerned, because we were young. Yeah. But she was like, you did the right thing. And I was like, exactly. Yeah.

So, uh, you know, and, and I had a similar situation where I was kind of sweet on a girl. This is before my wife. And, uh, you know, I asked her, she would want to go out sometime. And she's like, well, I have a boyfriend. I was like, oh. And then she said, well, would you share Jesus with him? And I was like, sure. I mean, that ended the, she kind of did to me. Right. You know, but I didn't do anything. I just kind of asked her out. And, uh,

and wound up bringing him to the Lord. And so I just thought that, I think putting all this, here's a letter 2,000 years ago to a group of people under Roman rule, and I'm sure they were the minority just by a tenth of a percent of the people around there with having all this stress in their life and being persecuted. And it was hard to live out

These facts that he's writing. Yeah. Because this just seemed ridiculous that some carpenter from Nazareth, you're putting all your faith and trust in him. And you're talking about, you know, loving and being resurrected and new creations and having an old self. So I'm sure there was a lot of pressure in doing this out loud and on purpose because

And I think that's why you get to... But some of that too, James, is just wisdom. It's what you're describing as wisdom because, and that's godly wisdom. All the years I was in ministry as a pastor, I would meet with anybody. But if a woman wanted to come and meet with me,

I was going to meet with her with either Lisa being there or with Lori, who worked with me at the church, being there. That's the old Billy Graham role that he... Exactly. I mean, and look, it wasn't... They make fun of it, but it's wise. It's wise because what it was saying... And what I always would say is, look, and I'm just a man, so certainly I take no pride in saying I'm above anything, but I wasn't as worried about me, but I didn't know about them and where they were. And so my thing was...

Since we're going to be here to try to talk about godly solutions to earthly problems, let's do that in a setting where nobody's going to get the wrong impression ever.

about what we're trying to do. I think it's the difference in thinking of what would Jesus do and then what is Jesus doing? I mean, I have the Holy Spirit. We're out here. This is what this is about. And then all of a sudden you have this moment of an old self. I mean, she was interested in me just as a potential mate. And I'm like, even though I didn't do anything wrong,

I immediately went to the new self, which is here's a group of women, share Jesus with her. I'm moving on. I'm not going to be involved in this. The buck just stopped here. The new self is the self that has the properly oriented or indexed desire. That's why the language in Colossians, what he's ultimately getting at,

is idolatry versus the worship of God. Like Bob Dylan said, you're going to serve somebody. Calvin said the heart is an idol factory. You can't help but worship. So are you going to worship God or are you going to worship idols? And when he says put to death these things like sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desires, and covetedness, which is...

So if you think about what is idolatry, that's just a misdirected desire or passion. That's why he uses the word evil desire, because it's a desire. I think John Piper said it this way. It's a desire that terminates onus.

on itself. So it ends on itself, going back to what you were talking about earlier, Al, with these humanistic approaches when we start with ourself and when we end with ourself. Well, that's what sexual immorality is. It's acting out sexually for the sake of just having sex, and there's no beauty in it. There's no triune reflection in it. And what he's pointing us back to is

in the end, is worship of Him. And so that's why this identity thing is so important, because you think, what is my identity? Because

Because that's the biggest question I think people ask is, who am I? What am I here for? What's my purpose? Well, what if the answer to that question is you are an image bearer of God. You were created to partake in the divine nature. You were created to worship the one true God. And if I do anything other than that in my life, then I'm not living in my design. I'm not

living in the context of what I'm intended to be. And so I'm going to feel this rub. I'm going to feel this anxiety. I'm going to feel this emptiness. I'm going to feel this depression. I'm going to feel all of these horrible things because why? I'm engaging in idolatry. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the fruit of all of these things is it disintegrates our lives. It rips us apart from a relationship with God that we were meant to live in. It rips us apart of our relationship with one another.

But then I love how he ends in verse 11. Here there is not Greek and Jews, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave-free, but Christ is all and in all. And so he brings it back there to that identity and to that unity as Christ fills all of us as his house, as his temple, as his body, and he makes his home now here within us. Yeah, and along with that, I think it helps us interpret this as not necessarily rules for us

godly living or whatever your translation said. Well, not just the heading. Yeah, or the heading. But...

But these are rules, right? But they need to be understood almost like our laws. Let's use the word law. Like the law, the second law of thermodynamics. That's not like a, that's not some kind of test. That's just like a description of the way the universe works, right? I mean, it's a description. The laws of thermodynamics are how heat works. The law of gravity. The law of gravity. I throw an apple up. Well, the law of gravity comes down. Oh, I'm,

We're not under law. No, no. These are descriptions of what a life in Christ looks like. These are descriptions of what that is. That's what I was going to say when you said everybody's going to worship somebody. Well, everybody's full of something, and you can make your own joke there. And if you're full of Jesus, well, it comes out.

But it's also what you're putting in. That's why it gets back to your daily cycle. You know, if you wake up every morning and spend three hours scrolling through social media, you just think what you've just fed yourself. Well, no wonder you're depressed and stressed out. And you're scrolling because they have this design to where it just never stops. It's like what Max said, don't feed it. But as a wise man once said, you should wake up and read the scrolls.

The scrolls. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. There you go. Full of Jesus. There you go. I love it. So when we get back together next time, we'll talk about that as well as the renovated life from verse 10, which I want to get into the renewed life, what that looks like. So Brandon, thanks for coming on. It's always a pleasure to have you. We'll see you guys next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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