Ep 1007 | Mia Takes a Secret Interest in Fishing to Impress Jase with Her New Skills
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Welcome back to Unashamed. Jace, you know you got a little Miley Cyrus going on in your voice when your producer says, do you need a cough drop? I'm really not sure who Miley Cyrus is, but I'll take your word for it. He's kind of got a, what would you call it, Zach? A cigarette? It's not Miley. He said Miley. Not Miley, Miley Cyrus. Oh, Miley? It used to be Hannah Montana.

Okay. She's not in the Bible. I'm really not interested. I mean, don't take that the wrong way. I'm sure she's a nice person. She's kind of a big deal. She's got kind of a husky voice. It's like raspy. I think it may be from cigarettes, but I don't know. Maybe it's true. You got to remember, in hunting season now, I'm more distracted than normal. So at some point in my life, I might would have known who that was. But you have. Well, you didn't know Joe Biden had a son, so.

Yeah, whose name is Hunter. You missed that one somehow. The, not me. Well, maybe I had known that before. I just, I moved on. Yeah. You know, Trump was elected and I've moved on. So, you know, I don't know. I have a selective memory of.

So I have two questions for you. All right, go ahead. So the first one is, I heard a story, a little birdie told me that someone left a deer in

for you on your side-by-side. So I want to know if that's true. You know, that was a funny moment. I can't believe you got wind of that. I get wind of everything. I have people telling me things. We got a lot of gossiping. We need to do a podcast on... Well, I guess it's not gossip if it's nothing spiritual related. This is just duck hunting. We left you a deer. Well, here's what happened. So we... I mean, there's deer hunting and then there's like, I come out from duck hunting and there's just a deer...

Laying on my side-by-side. I'm reminded of the guy who, what was his name? Jeff Foxworthy. You might be a redneck if somebody leaves you a deer on your side-by-side. Well, then I guess I qualify.

so and i'm proud of it and i would say you might be a beloved redneck because someone was did a nice thing for you there that is a nice suggestion well uh where we're at on our property is i kind of run the duck hunting side of it uh and like i say you know phil has has been down so it's it's like a role that's

Kind of weird because I'm sad because my dad's not feeling well, but now I realize that some of the stuff he's had to put up with about, you know, people wanting to duck on and their poachers and different things we've had been involved with here lately. And, uh, you know, Willie via Jay takes care of the deer side. Yep. And so what we've kind of realized in our relationship is,

Is I need to stay out of the deer management because I don't like deer hunters in general on our property. I love them outside of our property. But I'm saying they don't have anything against deer hunters. You just don't like it going on while you're down. I don't like them scaring the ducks. Yeah. So when we shoot at ducks, it doesn't scare the deer. Right. Now, they didn't believe that at first. But now everybody, I mean, we will literally shoot some ducks.

And then we've had this happen in the first split three different times. We shoot ducks and then deer walk out like we're not there. Yeah. They're just walking. And so I kept griping. I said, we got too many deer because they're not even scared of us. Now they're just coming out in the open and we're not disturbing them at all. Yeah.

And so they don't, you know, we just decided you stick with the ducks. We'll stick with the deer. I like to eat deer. Yeah. So they don't want me anywhere around the deer hunting operation.

So Jay got me a, and I like to eat small deer and I have my tags and they have their tags. And I'm like, somebody's using these tags for Jace to have a deer for Thanksgiving. Cause my kids, it's like a tradition when they come in from out of town, they want to eat crappie. And so my daughter for the first time, which I, you know, I'm, I'm telling a sub story here.

For the first time in our relationship, because they love this tradition, because I'll cook the Thanksgiving week, which I know was two weeks ago, but it's a great memory here. Yeah. And I snuck off to Willie's Pond. Don't tell anybody. Yeah.

to catch some crappie at night because I didn't just, I don't want them knowing my business and I've offered to pay for the crappie. I think he likes the sneaky part of it. You don't want who knowing your business, Willie? Yeah, especially I don't want him knowing my business when I'm on his property. It's his business too because you're on his property, but I know what you mean by that.

I think he likes the sneaky. And I did see pictures of the slabs you caught, by the way. Look, so I go out there and just, I mean, it was just on. And I was like, the Lord knows how much this means to my family. They love for me to cook crappie the week of Thanksgiving. They love me to cook deer. I'm over there catching the crappie, and I'm about five in, five slabs in, in five casts. And I hear this. You don't ever hear this at night, even though it was –

Hey, Dad. And I mean, I jumped a foot. It was black dark. And I just hear this voice. Hey, Dad. And it was my daughter. I was like, are you lost? She said, no, I wanted to come fishing with you. I was like, oh, because she had just pulled in. Where's Dad? He's fishing, catching y'all some crappie. Yeah.

And she actually, I'm like, well, come on, I only have one rod. But I was like, let me show you how to do this. So I caught a cut because it's a little tricky. I was like, you have to put it in the exact spot, do this. And I thought, have you been fishing? Because she's never been one to want to go fishing. She said, I've been catching fish in Tennessee. I was like, oh. Genetics. You're now wanting to show your skills off. Genetics.

I said, well, okay, here you go. And so the first one she actually, because I'm tight lining, so it was not difficult. And I'm on a bridge that's probably 12 to 15 feet above the water. So not only do you got to catch the fish, set the hook, you then have to sling it up on the bridge. And you have to fish on the bridge because it's the quickest way to get away if someone comes out of their house. And so she missed the first one.

I said, got to have a little more hook set here. It's more of a, because I said, well, you've been catching in Tennessee. And she's like, well, brim. I was like, you can get away with a lot on a brim, but these crappie, when you feel that bump go 1,001, I said, and then you jerk back. I said, he will resist. And that's how you set the hook. Next bump. Boom. She gets him. She had a little trouble slinging the crappie over, you know, but she figured it out. I was like, it's leverage. It's a leverage thing.

And then I caught a couple more to show her how to do the proper sling to the bridge. And then she caught a big one. And so that's when we called it a wrap. So we caught the crappie. But back to the deer, same principle. I was like, need a deer for Thanksgiving. So I basically put out a hit. What I get from me not being involved in your deer operation is I need a gift, a sacrifice.

This is your tithe. It's the tithe, and it cannot be over 50 pounds because I want to process it myself. Yeah. Do it quick. You don't trust anybody else cleaning. So I said that to Jay, and he just kind of looked at me like, huh, and that was it. But I said my piece, and we went duck hunting. And Jay didn't go with us that morning, which was a mistake because he took his daughter—

Deer hunting, which is a good thing. Yep. But he hears us about every 10 minutes because it was a flight. I mean, it was exciting. We're seeing ducks migrating dots and we're all calling. And then about one out of five bunches that would lock up and we actually started shooting them. Yeah.

So he's hearing this. So I know he's getting frustrated. A little FOMO. Yep. The worst thing you can do when you're deer hunting, and he's basically a deer watcher. Yeah. They're shooting cull bucks or whatever their process is, you know, which is just, I find, not interesting. Yeah.

And so he got to thinking about that conversation and every volley that goes off. So about eight o'clock, he couldn't stand it anymore. And he said, you still want that deer? And I'm like, I didn't even know what he, I had forgotten the car. I'm in the excitement of duck hunting. And I was like, yeah, that was it. Send him a text. We back to duck hunting. I forgot all about it. So our actually, it was the last day of the first split. The motor would not crank.

And so we had to push pole back to the bank, which was perfect timing. You think, is it time to be angry or, you know? Right. We're thankful. We got the ducks. We're push poling. We don't even mind push poling. Yeah, I don't even mind. I'm on top of the world. If you'd have had an offer, that would have been a long slog. So we pull up to the dock, and I look on the – I was like, something is on the four-wheeler. And here's this 40-pound deer.

It's just on the hood of a small four-wheeler. And it's not even overhanging. It's such a small deer. And a lot of you deer enthusiasts are like, oh, they're the best tasting deer. That's what it's all about. We have a tag. It's legal. But I thought he did that because the last time he got me a deer, he cleaned it, which I thought was a better gift.

You see what I mean? Yeah. So I think he was saying like, yeah, y'all are getting the ducks. Here's your deer. That's what I wanted to hear your take. That was the hidden. Well, I'm not going to say, oh, you didn't clean it. Well, I would never say that. Right. I can clean a deer, but it has been a while. But I had my son and they were going to movies and I didn't have time to clean the deer. I was going to go visit my parents. I was like, well, I guess I might take this deer home and clean the deer. Yeah.

So I cut me a piece of rope and I'd never, I live in town. It's not exactly, I think I've cleaned one deer in town and it caused a big stink with the HOA. I think they actually did an episode recreation of the duck. I had a deer hanging, you know, on my yard and you would have thought we need to call 911. And so I thought, well, here we go again. And so I hung this deer up and I realized that I'm a bit rusty. I mean, it took me about an hour.

Just to find the right tools. And I had to hang the deer up by myself, even though it was light, you know, I'm hanging the deer up. Couldn't remember. So I just kind of was chuckling the whole time as I'm cleaning this deer. I was like, you know, I'm not sure if this was a gift giving, given in thankfulness other than you missed the duck hunt. You're mad. Cause I want a deer. And this, the price of me not getting involved with y'all's operation.

But guess what? It was delicious. All right, so I got one more question for you before we go to break because I didn't know if you were aware of this or not, but did you realize that since you gave a pep talk to the ULM football team, they have not won a game? I have realized that.

They were like five and three when you talked to them. They finished the season five and seven. So I'm not sure you have a future as a motivational speaker for football teams. All right, I want to address this. I'm glad you brought it up. We've made the point many times that the Christmas story is the story of

the Son of God coming to earth, but doing it through the womb of really an unplanned pregnancy. I mean, a weak ass to be a teenage mom, right? Which was amazing that all the ways that God could have chosen to appear here, he chose that way. I mean, I think back to our past. I mean, when I was born, my parents' lives changed.

It was bumpy. Yeah. And I'm really grateful that no matter what, through all the chaos before coming to Christ, that they chose to give me life. Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't be here. And me too. And so we can imagine a young woman facing an unplanned pregnancy. She feels alone, unsure of what to do.

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Let's join together and help mothers choose life. To donate securely, dial pound 250, say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, keyword baby, or go to preborn.com slash unashamed. So there I was. I got asked to speak to this group of young men. And, you know, what do you do?

And the coach had actually asked me, what exactly are you going to talk about? And he was kind of giving me some ideas about football. And I was like, I'm not going to talk about football. So I want to say that first off. I talked about – He's the coach. He talks about football. I talked about being a young man in this world. And, of course, I shared my faith in Jesus. And I did it in a way where I didn't want to think –

I'm pushing this on you or this is, this is what I did. And, uh, and I just, that's what I did now. Granted, it did start a losing streak. However, you got to remember that everything in life that is noteworthy is a process and you have to embrace the struggle. Sometimes you need the struggle.

What was that quote about victory is celebrated in the light, but it's won in the darkness?

And so I feel like I'm part of that line on the ULM. No, that is a quote somewhere. And I'm not sure the exact context of it, but I think I got it right. But, uh, I think there, there always has to be a wilderness, uh, before there is freedom and liberation. I mean, just read the Bible. There's a lot of, a lot of struggle in the wilderness.

So I think it is a process. And I think five wins for ULM this year was awesome. It was. You think, oh, they're 5-7, and they were 2-10 the year before. So I really think the coach is going in the right direction. Agreed. And so I'm saying I went long-term, Al.

You have to have sometimes the struggle first. It's a lot like marriage. You rose above the wins and losses and you were more of a big picture guy. We brought up marriage and we actually, you know, the Paul brought up putting to death. Therefore, whatever belongs to the earthly nature, we're setting our minds and hearts on Jesus above and we have the Holy spirit. But then he, look, he goes through how this looks practically, uh,

And there are some things that we have to clean up on a daily basis. There's a struggle involved here. Correct. And we've likened this to marriage. And look, as much as I enjoyed my first year of marriage, when I look back on it, that was the most difficult year of my marriage. Yeah. Was the first year. And it is for a lot of couples. Yeah. I mean, we were probably five and seven. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Maybe even four and eight. Maybe three and nine, you know? But we were loyal to each other, which I think is the overall riding factor in Jesus. But there's a struggle, and embracing that struggle is part of the growth, even in Jesus. When I look at my first year of being in Jesus, it was the biggest struggle, year one. And year two was maybe a little worse, right?

But I will say this, after the second year, so I was 16, 17 years old in there, you know, I had a moment of clarity as far as growth and what it means to live what I now believe. This must be lived out in my life. I've shared this many times, you know, through podcasts, but I played defense as a Christian. And so that is my answer today.

to the ULM dilemma. I'm saying, Al, if you build it, it will flourish. But sometimes it's bumpy in year one. The rise above. And to your point, to get us back into Colossians, we were, in my sermon I preached, you mentioned on the last podcast that I had talked about

Lisa and I just celebrated 40 years of marriage. But to be honest, the first 15 for us was a struggle bus. So it was more than just a year for us. It was 15 years of back and forth before finally the dam broke and then God had to rebuild the whole thing. Well, I brought up on the last podcast this epiphany I had that he makes this transition, and we're here in Colossians. I would call this a major transition.

Of the letter. Yeah. It goes from three and a tenth to...

chapters of who Jesus is, because that is always the motivation here. That Jesus is the transformer. He is the foundation. He's the rock. He's at the right hand of God. This is and will be all about Jesus being the image of God and our participation in that. And we are married to him as members of his church and kingdom.

But he makes that transition on what this looks like, and he has this statement, put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature. And he starts off with four usually sexual-oriented issues. Sex that's not right in general, impurity, lust, evil desires. Now, then he gets into money and greed, which is another struggle in marriage also, because he's going to

Give this picture of this old life and this new life. But then he gets into relationships, you know, in verses 18 through the end of the chapter. And I would say, Jase, I would add that concept of greed.

is you think about it, money, and you're right. I think he makes that little bit of transition, but it's the same spirit of greed that's involved in those first four. It's never enough. In other words, once you go down this road,

of sexual deviancy and I've got to, you know, this is the life I'm going to live. It never seems like it's enough. I mean, greed applies to that whole realm as well. So I think that's a word that applies in both of those realms, whether it's the love of money, just the love of sex. Well, because it comes back to relationships. Now think about how Jesus summed up the law. They had the law. Okay. The people couldn't keep it. They weren't faithful to God. The relationship,

didn't work out too well. But through that, because God not only is creator, he is a redeemer, he comes to earth in bodily form. All the fullness lived in Jesus. And Jesus sums up the law and the king is here and he's like, remember what he said? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. And so that's this transition is your relationship with God

And the magic in that is through Jesus. In Jesus, you become a new creation. Well, it then affects or gives you opportunity to show God's love in all your relationships, even your neighbor. Why is that? Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus reflected that even in his death. He showed the relationship that he had towards his enemies. He said, forgive them.

which you talked about in your sermon about forgiveness. It's hard enough to forgive those you love. It's really difficult to forgive your enemies because let's face it, we have trouble loving our neighbor and especially our enemies. So I think that's kind of the overall view of what we're reading. I mean, he started off with sex because I think that does illustrate, like Zach really said well, in that it reflects everything

God and who he is in this relationship aspect, this intimacy, even in our transformation, him living in us. And so when I look back, we all have three different histories, I guess, as far as our marriage and our sexual history, which affects us.

I'm a guy who seems really weird in our world because the only woman I've ever been with is my wife. And in a sexual way, it started on our honeymoon night. And, uh, and you know, without getting too much in the details, I mean, my wife has said many times, she's like, if anything ever happens to you, you're

I'm done. And like when she first said that, I was like, babe, circumstances change. I'll be dead. I don't care. The Bible actually is like, okay, he's dead. You know, you can marry somebody else. She's like, it's so intimate and it's so private and it's so secret and it's so special that

I just don't want to go through that process again. You know what I mean? And she's not saying that from a negative viewpoint. It's just hard for her to imagine because I'm the only guy she's ever known. And so, you know, I listened to that sermon by John Tyson, which I recommended in the last podcast. Sexual Formation. Yeah, that was the name of it.

And, uh, it was very blunt and graphic. And I mean, he talks about every sexual idea from identity to, to live in, you know, together, not being married to pornography, to masturbation, to same sex, married, all this. And he has it in categories and he's very well spoken. So a lot of the words, I wasn't real sure what he meant, but, uh, it was all centered on Jesus. And, uh,

So I'm not, I mean, I listened to it this morning, so it wasn't like I was sitting there taking notes, but I thought, okay, here's a guy in New York City, and he says the number one problem that I, as a pastor, have counseling session with these people who are coming to Christ with all this sexual baggage.

And I thought it was really well done and I recommend it. And he actually brought up Colossians 3, but he also brought up 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Thessalonians 4, which seems to give the same idea of this relationship-oriented idea. Zach, have you noticed that holiday shopping has changed through the years? Now most people do their shopping online.

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Correct. Yep. I don't want anybody that I don't know knowing what I'm doing. You know, that's the thing about it. Your data is stolen by people all the time and just the security risks that you have out there. So yeah, I can't, I highly recommend this product. There's a lot.

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Was it 1 Corinthians 6, you said? Let me read the 1 Thessalonians 4. I think this was the basis, his main thrust. Which, look, I want to say this. One of the reasons I thought it was real well done, although very blunt, and I'm not sure how many people made it to the end in his audience, just based on a couple comments he made. You know...

The first thing he read was actually when Jesus said in Matthew 5, Sermon on the Mount, when he said, look, this idea about the law says that if you, about committing adultery, you know, and he makes this statement.

kind of illustration. He said, yeah, that's one thing. But I'm saying if you look lustfully at a woman, you're committing adultery in your heart. Well, then it goes into this, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It's so graphic that Jesus would say that. And it was uncomfortable for me to realize his audience in New York City, they're like...

I mean, is that in the Bible? I mean, it's Jesus. He's just like throwing down the haymakers here. I mean, you can't even look lustfully on a woman. He's making that the equivalent to adultery. I mean, this seems crazy. But it was real clever on his part because he started there. Because when he got to the end, and I want to say this because you may not make it to the end if I don't say this.

But he said, you know, Jesus came on as strong, his standard for sex about being about a man and a woman for life and exclusive. And he held that at the highest standard possible and didn't waver. But in his actions in love and his redemptive process, meanwhile, he also reached out to a woman caught in adultery who the Pharisees were fixing to stone and

And he created a way and a space for her to find a transformation process in love and would culminate that story at the end by saying, now, go leave your life of sin, a lot like Colossians here. He also would get to the story about the woman who was, however...

It portrays her, but she was basically a prostitute, a sinful woman, it says. But when you kind of dig deeper into the Greek and all that. Luke 7. Yeah, and he allows her to cry and to wash his feet with her tears. And putting her hair down, which was...

culturally only what women of the night did. And all these Pharisees are like, what do you do? You can't be a prophet and allow this woman. They were embarrassed and uncomfortable.

And so I really thought that was well done because the standard is there. It is a reflection of us being made in the image of God and what we have in a unique relationship with God in Christ in that we are literally married to him. And he made this point about a lot of people make a big deal about when Jesus said there's no marriage in heaven. He said, but he wasn't saying marriage.

Saying that for we're not going to have any, this same type of physical relationship

and with sex, and there'll be no need to reproduce. But he was saying, but we're married to Jesus in heaven forever, and it's way beyond. It's bigger. Yeah, it's bigger. I thought it was an awesome point. It goes on beyond this physical thing that we experience here on the earth. When Jesus says the whole thing that if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out, if your hand causes you to steal, cut it off, it's not.

The real nugget in, I think, Jesus' teaching there is that your eye doesn't cause you to sin and your hand doesn't cause you to steal. I mean, think about the absurdity of that. That's not why my hand doesn't do anything on its own, right? What causes us to sin, and this is the part we do cut off, is the evil desires. In James, it says each person is tempted when he is lured by

This is James 1.14, "...and enticed by his own desire." I think y'all's translation says evil desire. "...then desire, when it is conceived, gives birth to sin, and then sin, when it's fully grown, brings forth death." And that's the same language of evil desire in Colossians 3.14.

And what I think is interesting about formation of sexual formation or any spiritual formation, the question we should ask is formation unto what? Like, what is the point of any kind of formation? And the point of all of it, the whole point of the cosmos, the point of our existence, the point of the physical universe is,

Is so that we can commune with God. It's communion. That's that's the thing that we're after. And if you think about the discussion on sexuality, if you start to anchor it, not in necessarily a moral framework, meaning this is right and this is wrong, but anchor it and more of a intent design purpose format. Like what's the intention? What's the design? Why?

Why sexuality? Well, it is its intention is for communion, which results, as I mentioned in the last podcast, in the very procreation of life itself. Life comes from the sexual union of a man and a woman. That's basic biology. That's where that's where life comes from. And when you're reading Colossians, I think this is key. If you skip back a few verses in Colossians 1, 21, it says that you are once alienated

and hostile in mind. So that you think, well, what is the nature of sin? What is the nature of idolatry? What is the nature of sexuality outside of what God intended it to be? It ultimately will make you an enemy in your own mind. And I want to read just a few more verses that kind of back this up. Ephesians 4 says,

It says that the Gentiles don't walk in the way of the Gentiles who in the futility of their minds, they are darkened in their understanding. Here's same language alienated.

from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their heart. Then you skip over here to Hebrews 7. It says this in verse 18, for on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness. For the law made nothing perfect, but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced through which we now draw near to God. Now,

I love that language of drawing near to God. So what does the new hope do if sin causes us to recoil, which it did in the garden, by the way, right? In the garden, when they sinned for the very first time, they ran and they hid, they recoiled, they withdrew from God. But what the new covenant brings is it draws us back into fellowship with God, back into

into communion with God, which is the language of chapter 10 when it says that we have a clean conscience now. Let me read this first. Hebrews 10, verse 35 says, Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. Yet a little while in the coming one will come.

would not delay, but my righteous one shall live by faith.

And if he shrinks back, my soul will have no pleasure in him. In other words, don't recoil. But we are not of those, verse 39, who shrink back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and preserve life. And then you go to 1 Peter 3, 21, when it's talking about baptism, it says it's a pledge of a good conscience towards God. So I say all that to say this, there's so much in scripture about this, but the reason why

idolatry, and particularly the sexual expression of that, why it's condemned in Scripture, it's not condemned as a joy kill at all. What it's condemned for is because God knows that when you terminate on yourself and your own desire, then that is going to cause you to recoil and

And you are going to isolate yourself and you're going to withdraw and you're going to do the exact opposite of communion with him first and foremost, and then with each other. That is the point of sexual formation. Sexuality is meant for communion. Before you continue, you used a word earlier that you used the word transform.

which was so powerful, when we fall short of formation, there's transformation. And it made me think of Romans 12 too. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, which is this whole concept. Well, and that's what y'all are saying. When you listen to this, it's exactly...

what y'all are saying that that's where he went with this because he's like you got especially in colossians you got these two ways to go about sex you got the secular world which is like basically if you have consent if you have a desire and you have consent then you can do anything well the the question that should be asked is how's that working for you really deep down

And he had a really good illustration. He had some New York Times. I actually took a picture of this. Let me see if I can find it. He had a New York Times article about this. I don't believe this person was a believer who wrote this. The title of it is What's Lusk Got to Do With It? And under here, just to be fair, why would a woman go home with a man, decide...

She's not attracted to him, but have sex with him anyway. So that's what the article was about. But there was an interesting quote that he read from this woman who wrote this article, which kind of sums up the secular view here. It says, getting naked and having sex with strangers is hard.

Because everybody's like, oh, the illusion of it is, oh, this is freedom. Yeah, it's free. And his point in the sermon, Tyson, was it produces confusion and disillusionment, you know, and a lot of guilt and shame. And like, I don't know if I should have done that. Not to mention transmitted diseases or what have you, or fights or jealousy. The thing about this, I mean, like if you look at like a Hugh Hefner,

I mean, who looks at Hugh Hefner at the end of his life now, especially with all the stuff coming out and says, man, now that guy had it made. Nobody says that's the life I want. I mean, or Puff Daddy. I mean, we mentioned this in the podcast before or Jeffrey Epstein. Like when you see those who have just said we're going to we're going to pursue unbridled sexual expression. When you see that play out at the very end, why are we not saying no? Why is culture that has told us that this is the good life?

Why don't we, why don't we back off now? Why don't we say, no, no, no, no. This is what, this is awesome guys. What they were doing, you know, the thousand bottles of baby lotion or whatever. That's awesome. We, that man, that's a beautiful picture. They, nobody says that. Why?

But you're right, Zach. The projection in the moment was that it was good. But every time these people either get into legal trouble or they die and you start hearing the details, it's disgusting. Well, exactly. Well, to finish this. Turn the lights on. It gets ugly. So the secular world, what happens is it doesn't lead to intimacy, which is why this person's writing this article, because it's like what you really want.

is someone like, you know, I'm going back to my marriage is that I can take all my clothes off and my wife. And since we are oblivious of, because our temptation is in the last 34 years would have to be curiosity because this is all we've ever known, which after I heard this sermon, I mean, my wife got, I was like, babe,

We ought to be thankful for what we have. Because it's like, I don't know what's going on, but after hearing that, I'm really thankful for what we have because we don't have this shame and we are what we are. There's an intimacy that is triumphing with this article that I'm reading from here, which I've now lost my place. Sorry. Let me scroll back.

You know what? Why don't they have your phone where it resets, you know, after your unused? Okay. So let me read the quote because you'll find this fascinating. So getting naked and having sex with strangers is hard. We portray it as fun and we pretend it's fun, but people crave intimacy, which is not easy to create in a hookup. That's why Britain just appointed a loneliness minister, which I didn't know they did that.

So this is Joanna Coles. But her point, I think, is well spoken that it is. And when you throw in some of the other stats he had, like 90 percent, which I don't know where they got the research. But from 12 to 17 year old males have have experienced, you know, pornography in some fashion, 90 percent.

And it's like, which affects you, which he got. I mean, he went very graphic in that, which affects them later with an actual real woman, you know, because you have this fantasy idea. And he had a C.S. Lewis quote.

Because he got into masturbation and addressed it. And even though the Bible doesn't really specifically get into that, I think C.S. Lewis made a pretty good point about this kind of being self-absorbed. But he made it. It's a self-isolation. It's the same. Exactly. It's like it's way easier to have this relationship with thousands of fantasy people

in your mind, then it, cause he gave a definition of like lust and love. Love is focused on one person and not just in a sexual way, just self giving love.

Lust. It's not really intimacy if it's just you. And the quote was, lust doesn't care who you are. Yeah. Because it's more about your own self and wants. And I thought that was a really telling definition of how that works because he did mention lust in Colossians. You have the secular view, which is the, you know, let's just, if you have the desire, you get the consent.

This is what they call freedom, which is untrue. Just you simply ask them a question. But that changes that, that, but that, that, that whatever the thing, whatever the secular vision of sexual freedom is, is,

it changes because what happened in the me too movement is the me too movement ate up the sexual liberation movement. So that, that, that's the interesting thing about the, the, the secular world is we're tracking itself. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, but then on the other end, you have, have religious groups or, or, you know, people using shame as kind of the catalyst and willpower. And without this transformation, this sacred, uh,

edict that God instituted, he's not trying to shame you, and it's not some kind of rule-oriented. It is a reflection of what true relationship, self-sacrifice, and love can be all about. And I think when you look at sex in general, you start off as a human, well, you're oblivious to sex when you're a kid. You have no idea. Baby, there's no idea. So you go through this process that we call puberty, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh,

And I think he kind of shared his own. He had three instances because he was like, when I was a kid, well, it was hard to see pornography. So he had three instances where he saw a magazine. They were quite funny. It was like the first thing he saw was in a public restroom. He saw a naked woman. And he thought, you know, I didn't know what that exactly. He was like eight or nine years old. He's like, but it caused a physical reaction. I mean, I thought, huh.

I didn't know that was going on, you know? And he said, so I did what any kid would do. I took it off the wall and put it in my pocket. And he's like, but my parents were believers. So I thought, where could I hide this where they wouldn't find it? Oh, boy. And he said, you know. Back to Genesis 3 now. He said, we had a Bible dictionary that no one ever used.

And he said, I literally hid it in a Bible dictionary. And he said, for the record, I have no idea where that Bible dictionary is somewhere. But if someone finds it, they're going to find a surprise in there. Probably on the same page as lust. And I remembered being in eighth or ninth grade. I went to a camp out with my buddies, you know, and one of them brought out this book. And it was, you know, with pictures. But it was like a sex book.

And I was like, wow, what in the world? So he gets into all that, but he then on the other side has, in light of Colossians, this shame idea, even where people trying to be

try to guilt people, you know, or create a scenario that is exhausting, that forces you to quit, you know, without Jesus's intervention as the model doing it right. Or if things go wrong, the transformation process. Or in addition to the shame side of that, I grew up hearing what I've termed the sexual prosperity gospel, which is essentially saying,

Hey, wait till you get married to have sex. And then when you do, it's going to be the most amazing. Yeah. He brought that up. It's like the angelic. And he's like, I got news for you. And he said, you know, from people I've talked to people like my wife and I, I mean, it is what it is. It's sex. It's nice. It's great.

But, you know, it wasn't like. But it takes work in a relationship. Exactly. It's just like anything else. Going back, talking to the football team, the whole nine yards. I mean, relationships are difficult. And it changes over the course of your life together because you physically change, but your intimacy can deepen.

In such an important way. Like what you just went through. Al, what you just went through. When your wife has a double mastectomy, I bet in that moment, in that healing process, I bet it wasn't a honeymoon experience for you guys. Not at all. And yet it was one of the most, to Jace's point, jokingly about the football team, it was one of the most rewarding moments.

and intimate times of our lives together. That's where I was going with this. You see that this is a temporary thing. You start off when you're a kid, oblivious. Well, look, at some point, it's going to become oblivious again. No matter how many pills you order, I'm telling you, I mean, my dad was right in one of his sex talks. He said, Jase, at some point, everything, ducks and human bodies, they're heading south. Yeah.

Everything's headed south. The last time I heard Phil talk about sex, he said, and this was probably about five years ago or maybe longer, he said, we're just trying to get through the ordeal now without somebody getting hurt. Exactly. I thought that was hilarious. But I mean, like, eventually, like, is this the peak of your existence? Yeah.

Well, exactly. I need to read this because we only have three minutes left. I want to read the first Thessalonians four, because this is really the basis for the whole thing. And I think we should read it and then you can comment. So he says in verse one of first Thessalonians four, finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God as in fact, you're living.

Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do the same more and more for you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. So watch what he says. It is God's will that you should be sanctified, set apart, that you should avoid sexual immorality, that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not impassionate lust like the heathen who do not know God.

And that in this matter, no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. And before I read, he made a point there that the church, they're not in charge of setting up this legalistic shame-filled mandate on trying to move people. He said the church should be a reflection of God's plan that they're married to Jesus. And it should above all be a place in the world that is safe.

where there's not predators on every street corner like the world is, because we haven't even got into that. When you have this, hey, consent plus desire equals whatever you want to do, well, what happens in our real world is predators have come out of the woodwork. And that's why you have so much abuse. There's human trafficking. I mean, and I think that was a really good point. It's like in the church, we welcome everyone at the table.

but not in our bed. And he quoted that Hebrews 13. But even on the flip side of that, even in the church where you've used guilt, shame, and other methods to control people sexually, you also see abuse and predators come out. Exactly. He made the point. The predators are coming.

So then he says, the Lord will punish men for all such sins as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man, but God who gives you his Holy Spirit. That's why I wanted to read this because when he talks about setting your mind on things above where Jesus is sitting and he says, Jesus, who is your life, you have the Holy Spirit inside of you.

It's all woven in this context, which is, we don't have time to read 1 Corinthians 6, but it actually singles out this relationship and says all other sins a man commits are outside his body. He who sins sexually sins with his own body. And you remember what it says? If you're united with a prostitute, you're uniting Jesus himself in that moment. Yeah.

And so the reason we made such a big deal of this is because God made a big deal of this because it is a reflection of the greater relationship, like Zach has said a couple times here, of what we experience in Jesus. And it is the most captivating thing that happens

Because it is something that we think about as men. Somebody said every seven seconds. You can't look – and Zach, you said you can't look to society, you can't look to culture for your answers because it's ever-changing. You mentioned about Me Too. Me Too.

being eaten up is the same with the same sex was eaten up now with trans because before it was like well you were born this way so we have to accept it and that's the way it is forget about this biblical transformational stuff and now all of a sudden a new movement goes along and says no really you're not born that way you're not born the right way I think you have to anchor this whole entire conversation again in this idea of communion I want to read this two sentences here of this book I've been reading about Tom Bombadil who's a character in

lord of the rings and um such a beautiful book by the way but um this is about communion and he talks about you know in lord of the rings the the evil wizard uh saruman who's like the evil version of of of gan off the great uh he says he isn't interested in communion he has a closed book or his tree beard put it a stone wall with shuttered windows and then there here's the money line right here you don't commune with things that you intend to use

And I thought, man, I read that and I thought, man, that is it. You don't commune with things that you intend to use. And if you think about what's happening with sexual morality is you're using things, you're using people and you don't intend to ever commune with them. But in the context of what God has designed, my sexual union with my wife, I don't intend to use her.

I intend to commune with her. - Which is a, yeah, it's a reflection of God's original plan. He wants to commune, which I'll say this in closing. It comes back to, if you don't believe there's a God, then all of a sudden your design is lost. When the design is lost, your purpose is lost. When your purpose is lost, there's no accountability. Where there's no accountability, there's no fear of God. Where there's no fear of God, there's no wisdom.

And chaos ensues. More and more failure. All right, we'll come back and hit this some more next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazetv.com slash unashamed.