Ep 1015 | Phil’s Top 3 Things to Look for in a Wife & the Marriage Mistake Jase Made for 20 Years
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We are kind of at that crossroads place, Jace, of the new year looming. Yeah. You know, because we're right here for 2025. A lot of changes. I mean, we got a new president. We got a new administration. People are excited about, you know, different things that are going on. People make their resolutions. You know, I had made a push recently.

a while back was, Jace, you're not going to win your bet just to give you the bad news. That's $10. I'll never see it again. I'll never get that back. What was that? I was trying to lose 60 by 60, and I failed miserably. But I did realize, just to let you know, I'm not giving up. I'm not quitting because a lot of people just then walk away, and then the next thing you know, you're on my 600-pound life.

But I'm, so I figure I'm going to be 60 for this whole year. Yep. So technically I'm still going to do 60 by 60, but it's just going to take longer than my birthday. So in the betting world. Betting world. So I've heard, because I'm not a gambler. That's why I follow Jesus. I mean. You finally gambled and you lost. That's why you don't gamble. Yeah.

Because you had no control over my eating pattern. But the $10, I put that in the category of not gambling. I put that in the category of entertainment. Okay. Is that in your New Year's resolution, Al? Are you adding in the... Yeah, I mean, I didn't have to have a New Year's. I'd already made the resolution even a few months ago, but I've just decided I've got to get this weight off. Yeah, but my thought, Al, is saying, so I've heard in the betting world. So now they don't...

The bet will not be canceled because now you're making...

stab at it. I am. Now it brings in... Technically, I can still do 60 by 60. I'm 60 for a whole year. So what they'll do is... That is true. They'll call that doubling down. Doubling down. I am doubling down. Now I could go double or nothing. Yeah, that I get it done. If you lose 60, that's what I'll do. Do it. But now we're up to 20. It's going to happen. Because Zach and I have decided we're doing it together. Zach wants to lose a few. You probably don't have to lose as much as me. But we're going to get on a plan together, right, Zach? You're going to be...

I'm going to be my buddy. Yeah, I'll be your accountability partner. Phil commissioned me years ago to scour the earth for the best coffee. I never was able to deliver on the best coffee. I identified several sources, but he never, because I wanted to do a coffee brand. Well, I was fixed to quote Phil myself. However, you chose to go the coffee route, which is deflecting coffee.

the attention on y'all's weight issues. So I'm going to go. No, I was going to say scouring. So I'm looking for a solution. I'm fixed to give it to you. I'm going to quote Phil. Yeah. Do more and eat less. That's a good way. Do more physical things and eat less honey buns and things of that nature. Snowballs and stuff. You say no.

So that's what he would say. Do more physical. Sometimes you need help. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

And then the second step is that your power. So Zach's job, because Zach's role on our podcast is always, you know, helping find sponsors, people that can line up with what we're trying to do on the podcast. So I've commissioned Zach to find someone that we can partner with and do some sort of weight loss with that. We can get this off. So that's our plan for 2025. So, and I got a year, 60 by 60. You got a year to do it. I got to get this done by this time next year.

I think these New Year's resolutions are a good idea, but what I've found is most people don't do a very good job of sticking to it. Yeah, that's hard. People say, I'm going to read the whole Bible. They start in Genesis. I've said this many times. I didn't know it was so controversial.

Somebody put these books in the order, and they mainly went by time, but not all. I mean, Al, didn't we learn in school that the first book written was actually the book of Job? Yeah, it's the most ancient, they think. Yeah, so I'm saying now, stop your head from spinning. It's like, oh, we got these out of order. I've said many times the Bible's about Jesus, but what I recommend people to do is start in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And then go back. When you start with Genesis, it's great for Genesis and Exodus because it's quite the story. But man, then you hit the Leviticus bog. Well, that's what I'm saying. If you start Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Jesus multiple times quotes, especially where we're at today in Colossians when you talk about the family dynamic.

Jesus, he continually went backwards and quoted what happened in Genesis about how males and females were supposed to conduct themselves. And there's a famous quote, I think it's Matthew, what is it, 19, where he says, for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united. And it was actually in the context, Chase, of the

debating divorce with some Pharisees, you know, because they were like, well, you know, Moses said we could get a divorce. What do you say? You know, everything was trying to trap him. And then he's like, you don't know the scriptures. You don't even understand any of it. I love the way he attacked it. But then he went back to the very beginning, to your point, to Genesis 2.

He said Moses made a concession. Yeah, because of your hard hearts. Yeah, your hard hearts. You missed the whole point of the whole thing. Missed the whole point. But to Jace's point, it is interesting when you read it that way because Jesus, like I mentioned this on a previous podcast, I probably said this a lot, but

I love that road to Emmaus when Jesus is resurrected from the dead and he meets with the disciples. And everybody that he talks with, the two guys on the road, and then he goes and meets with the disciples. But it says that he opened their minds to the scriptures. He showed them from the scriptures. So he's going back and reinterpreting.

the Old Testament. So it is kind of difficult to understand the Old Testament. Well, you're not going to understand it. Well, that's why salvation came to the Jews first. We've said this a lot, but it helps you understand the Bible. The Old Testament was pointing to the coming Messiah, which was Jesus. So here's these Jews who said, you know, they're waiting on this Messiah, but they're thinking physical kingdom. They're thinking, oh, he's going to come and destroy Rome.

I mean, maybe he'll do it in our lifetime. We're bringing out the tanks and the weapons and not literally the tanks and weapons, but, you know, swords and chariots and conquer the world. And, you know, he had a different plan because of his selflessness and his sacrifice for our sins and the resurrected body from the tomb. Well, that.

That was way, but he was thinking bigger than just some kind of physical altercation in the nation of Israel. So that's why the, you mentioned Luke 24, the road to Emmaus, but I love the John five, which is one I quote a lot when he's got some Jewish believers in God gathered around him. And he says, well,

Where exactly is that at? Verse 39. Listen to this. This is John 5, 39. So I'm going to show you how this goes backwards. He says, you diligently study or study diligently. There's a little letter over that study. So it can be interpreted both ways. You diligently study or study diligently the scriptures. Well, what scriptures is he talking about?

He's talking about the Old Testament. The only thing that's around at this point. At this point, there's nothing else there. And he's like, you study them because you think by them you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me. Yet you refuse to come to me to have life. And I'm saying that because when I first said that, starting Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,

people so i'm told wrote in saying what is jay's talking about the old testament is not about jesus it's it's about like now and well what is jesus's point here yeah he says those scriptures that you're saying yes he's saying is about eternal life and he's like they're about me so he would be he went back it would be interesting if you if you're making new year's resolutions which we're going to talk about on the not yet now podcast tomorrow we're going to talk about

Some resolutions that a guy named Jonathan Edwards made, and those are daunting. But I think if you're going to make a resolution of reading the Bible, because that is like one of the, for Christians, I feel like so many people make that resolution. I'm going to read the Bible in a year, which I think is great. But it would be interesting to take the approach of what you're talking about, start in Matthew, and anytime there's a mention of an Old Testament passage in

Then go back, just take a break, go back, find that, find that reference and do a deep dive on that. And then, and then go back to the new Testament and just move your way forward. I think if you read the Bible in that way, it will fundamentally change your whole perspective on the entire thing. Cause I did that and it changed my whole, I mean, it rocked my world. I mean, there's so much that I assumed about the scripture that,

That once I read it in the context of the New Testament reinterpreting the Old Testament, it made the whole thing come alive for me. I'd never done that before. Well, and also, Zach shows you how much has been fulfilled.

you know, in the New Testament scriptures and in the gospels from all that time ago, because you got so many people today that don't look at the Bible that way, and they're still waiting around for all this fulfillment. And it's like, I mean, so much has already happened. And you wonder sometimes about the relevance. Think about it. So a lot of Christian leaders today, Christian pastors, you know, a lot of high profile people,

We'll look back in that passage of Matthew 19, and they'll look at these Pharisees. They're missing the whole point. Jesus is showing the bigger picture. Talking about divorce because they agree with that. But then they'll say, some of those same people will turn around and say, well, you know, Jesus never really addressed same sex. He never addressed trans. He never addressed these things we're dealing with. And so then they create these whole new things.

When you're like, no, he addressed it. He just said, here's the idea. Here's the idea. In the beginning, God made them male and female. And for this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh. Very clear. He then goes physical because as my dad would always say, you look at the parts of a male and a female and you're like, yep.

You look at any other combination and you go, nope. And you see how other human beings are formed. It's pretty simple. He gives you the ideal. That's why when you get to Colossians 3, and we're doing a whole podcast on this, when you get to verse 18 through chapter 4, verse 1,

This is probably, through the years, been one of the most weaponized passages of Scripture based on the culture and religious leaders of the time than any other passages in the world. Right. I mean...

And so really the shock when you look at, you know, get the idea that Jesus changes the culture, whatever culture you're in, he changes it for the better. And he goes back to Genesis 1 and 2 over and over and over again. This was God's design. We're made by God. This is the design of humanity. Here's how other humans populate the earth. And then he gets into these family dynamics. But what he said here is,

really shocked the Roman world and their culture. And so it does matter because you think about where we're at in Colossians. He spends this first couple chapters talking about who Jesus is, why he's king of kings. And then it gets to those who surrender to him as human beings. They put off the old self, put on the new self. And then he's like, well, this is what it looks like in your family, in your home.

And so you got to remember, so what was going on in their current culture? We're in Colossians. There was a town called Colossae, and it was under Roman rule. Well, if you look up the history of the Roman organized families, it was basically this entity. The father was the ruler of his wife.

Women were considered inferior beings under their culture. Couldn't work. Yeah, couldn't work and had no, their eyewitness testimony, they're never testifying in a court of law. Couldn't testify, had no role in governance, nothing. Yeah. For the most part, there were some exceptions. Then the father was the ruler of the children, even to the point if he wanted to issue the death penalty,

Based on whatever. He had the authority to do it. So it really was about power. And then their idea of servants and masters was more an economic way to where we have...

and running water and all these things, they would hire people based on being in debt or some kind of war and you conquer the other nation. Well, you would get a certain amount of servants to do this work. It wasn't like what we think when you see this master slavery. In fact, most of these people were happy to be living with a family and have a roof over their head and a place to raise their family. I mean, they were very pro-

the setting because they otherwise they're gonna have to live out under a bridge somewhere so this wasn't this wasn't based on race and and like it was mainly it's really about authority in in an economic environment because these people had a chance they could work their way up and make a living and and so it's totally not

uh what we think of when we we've seen what what happens the atrocities where people think they're better based on race and slavery and all that which was is abhorrent you know so uh i think once you kind of

realize the context of this. So when they're reading this, and back then they would read these letters to the community. Well, his first phrase, they're like, okay, wives submit to your husbands. Well, that was a given, but he throws in this as is fitting in the Lord. So there's some selflessness that he's saying that they're all like, okay, great. It's an attitude thing.

As much as anything, because obviously they're in a setting where, what are you telling these people? But there's difference in doing it because I have to and doing it because I want to. Exactly. But then the second verse would have probably got an audible gasp, which is husbands love your wives and do not be harsh with them. And when you combine this with Ephesians, because he does the same thing in Ephesians when we studied that.

He said there, now he starts off in 21 of chapter 5 of Ephesians saying, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Because really he's going to give a picture of how even though we're equal footing, because he just said in Colossians 3.11, here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised, uncircumcised, slave or free. He says in Galatians, there's no male or female circumcision.

slave or freak, Galatians 3.27, you remember that. It's like you're all under Christ. Now, in the marriage role, we have different roles, but there's no, you know, you thinking you're better than a woman, because back then they even would get up every morning, the men, and I read this quote somewhere, and they would thank God that they weren't a slave or a Gentile or a woman. I mean, that was...

That was something they would say every morning. Yeah. Well, if you said that today, you know, you better duck. I mean, it was just. I mean, it's one of the reasons in apologetics when you if you read any any of the historical evidence for the resurrection, any of those arguments, then there's a ton of them out there. But one of the key factors in how we if you said, how do we know that Jesus rose from the dead?

This is a question that probably any Christians ask or even non-Christians. One of the things they look at is this thing called embarrassing details or embarrassing facts surrounding the event. And the thought is, if you were to make this up, you wouldn't have put these things in there because at the time they would have been embarrassing. And one of the most embarrassing facts is,

about the resurrection if you were to transport yourself back to the time when these accounts were written about was that women found

The empty tomb first, because Josephus said this in one of his writings that the testimony of a woman was not credible. So even that, think about the time period that we're talking about. Women did not have any credibility. And there was an intense misogyny and disrespect for women at the time. I know.

So Jesus' teaching actually is in this earth shadow. But Zach, even the women, and Jesus mentioned this several times in the gospel, even the women who were there were supporting his ministry and the disciples' ministry. There was a group of women.

that we're financially supporting as well as then functionally supporting. Oh, remember in Romans 16 at the end of the letter, he names all these women. They were meeting in the church, you think, Priscilla and Aquila. They're mentioned always together. Here's a husband-wife team. And the reason why I think from the days of Jesus, then going forward in the early church, Luke was really big on, in his book,

about highlighting women, what you're seeing is the idea of true equality in Christ. I mean, that's what he's bringing forward here. And so when we get to the marriage context, it's like, well, now we're going to go back and not have equality. Wait a minute. This is what the whole thing was about. Of course we're equal. There's no higher value on one or the other. Which is why he keeps lumping all these different things that divide us into one class in Christ, which is Galatians 3.27 that I mentioned. And I want to read it.

Because, I mean, that's what it says. Even though we have different roles, both roles are with Jesus in mind. Because when he said it in Ephesians 5, he's like, husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. In Colossians, he just says, love your wives, don't be harsh with them. But in Ephesians 5, he's like, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. So when you get a picture of Jesus as a husband being the head of the wife,

Well, Jesus, he's washing the disciples' feet. Remember? Even though there was a betrayer, while they were arguing about who was going to be the greatest, speaking of power and authority, and then he goes to a cross and dies for the church? Are you kidding me? That's what I'm supposed to be doing for my wife as I'm leading her? Exactly. Well, there's not a whole lot of room for weaponizing this authority. And look, I think it's something we all learn. I mean, we came from...

you know, a worldly environment when our parents weren't Christians. And my dad was a man's man. And a lot of the advice he gave me as a teenager, I found out to be completely false compared. I'm just telling, and he knows that way. And you know, as, as big as interpreting the past with the future. Yes. The only one I held on to was don't compliment bad cooking.

Yeah. That's the only one I held on to. Well, Phil used to say, you know, there's three qualities that you need to look for. Now he would say, does she carry a Bible? Yeah. But then it was like, can she cook? You know, which when you tell a kid, a kid is impressionable. Yeah. And so when I started dating my wife, I realized pretty quick that,

She can't cook. And mine couldn't either. We violated one of the three deity aspects of my dad's advice. And then the third thing he would say is, will she pick your ducks? Yeah. Well, I thought my wife...

She's only 33% of this, what I'm looking for. She does carry a Bible. She carries a Bible. But she can cook now. And she sure is not going to pick a duck. That's not going to happen. So what I realized is that wasn't a very good guide.

to be looking for because that first one made made those other two obsolete you know i mean my wife is a you know a warrior mother for the lord uh with our kids and she's been an awesome selfless wife to me and uh and she's on fire for the lord so what i'm saying is i had to work through that because we all bring a certain amount of baggage

But when I started acting like I need to give my life for her on a daily basis, like Christ gave himself up for the church, I started realizing that leadership was not

exactly what I thought it was in Christ. Well, and to be fair to dad, he was telling us that when he was pretty young and immature in the faith. And so I would say as he's grown, that's changed. You remember a few podcasts back, we had the Chad squared, the two military guys on. And what I found fascinating was when those guys, cause I brought up this text to them. And when I asked them, they both said they were selfish.

Cause I was like, what changed? You guys are in the military. You're serving our country. You're operators. I mean, you're doing amazing things, but it obviously, cause I knew their story. It wasn't working great in your personal family. So what changed? I was curious to hear them say, and they both said the same thing. We were selfish, but through Christ, we learned to be selfless, which is what love is. It's the whole thing. I got a couple of quotes I want to read. I heard a sermon on this Colossians three the other day. Uh,

And these quotes were, he quoted them and I took a picture of them on the screen. This first one says, this is David Garland, NIV application commentary. The verb submit here, and he's got it written out in Greek, hypotasso. So my apologies for mispronouncing that. Does not convey some...

uh innate authority but is used for a modest cooperative demeanor that puts others first so i thought that was interesting yep and this one is uh from matthew henry i i really like this it says the woman was made out of adam's side you remember when god took a rib from adam's side

She was not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled on by him, but out of his side to be equal with him under his arm.

to be protected and near his heart to be loved. And I get it. He just made a quote out of that, and I think it's a random thought. Yeah. It's a pretty good one. It's a pretty good one. I thought, you know, he's right. Because when you read the definitions of Ephesians 5, which he goes into more detail, I mean, it's like, well, love your wife like Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

And then he goes into anybody who, you know, you should care for your wife like you do your own body. I mean, he's making these illustrations that you're realizing this is going to take some selfless moments here. Plus, I hadn't thought about it until you just said that, but the ribs job in your human body is protection.

They protect all your vital organs, the things that matter. That's why God put that rib cage there for protection. Think about how much our wives...

protect us. Yeah. Sometimes from ourselves, sometimes from getting into bad situations. I mean, I mean, that role is huge in terms of us doing it together. That's a great thought. It's two selfless people coming together. And so, Al, you've done a lot of counseling, way more than I have, in marriage situations. And it's almost the same story every time. Yeah. Well, we were married. It was awesome at first. Mm-hmm.

And then at some point, and they usually make a statement like, well, he just wasn't meeting my needs or the woman, uh,

Or the man says, she just, you know, my needs weren't being met. Or they'll say, I'm not sure we ever should have gotten married. I picked the wrong person. But think about that statement. Actually, that's the opposite of what God is calling both of you to do, which what is love? It's putting the other person, their needs in front of your own.

Because in these definitions of our roles, even though they're different and God allows for that, because we are, when you think about men and women, generally men are

want to fix everything. Now, there are exceptions to this, but just generally. And women, and I got this from the same sermon, Darren White is the one that gave it at Church of the City. But he said, women generally want to feel things. And he kind of had a little three-point deal of how you navigate that where, you know, we, when something bad happens, we, I forgot the exact staircase, but we

We want to dismiss it. And they want you to feel and care for what they feel and care for. Well, exactly. I remember the positive was they need to be validated. They need to be comforted. And this needs to be repaired because I remember he said VCR. So I remember those three things. But what we want to do is basically ignore it and dismiss it and just say, well, how can we fix it?

But they're like, well, wait a minute. And we've had this happen in my marriage hundreds of times. Oh, yeah. Because she'll come in, be upset about something, and I'll just give her a quick fix it. Well, here's what you need to do. But she doesn't want to hear it. She wants to hear, oh, my goodness, how could that have happened? I bet you're so upset about that and have every right to me. What a...

So you validate it, you know, and then you come from, well, you know what? It's going to be okay. We're in Jesus. And what can we do to. And it's, and you're so good. It's about, cause they have something they're wanting to share. It's like Lisa came in just the other day and she had been shopping. And one thing she loves to do, she goes and buy stuff, which I don't care. You know, she works, I work, you go buy stuff.

And then I don't really ever care to see it. I don't care anything about it. It makes no difference to me. But she loves to come in and I'll say, how'd it go? How'd the shopping go? Oh, it went great. You're not going to believe what I got. Tell me about it. Now, I don't really want, I do not care.

at all but she does so she comes in she sets that bag down and she goes through everything in it and pulls that see i got this for your mom see this top and i was like yeah that was great and then i got this and this was on sale and then i got this for the kids and and she goes through the whole bag and i was like yes yes yes because i really don't care but she cares about it i figured this out we're tracking on this i'm gonna help i know we're deep into the bowels of this

But I figured something out. Matty, you got your book out over there? You taking notes? I got your notebook out. So for 20 years, I'm guessing, for the first 20 years of marriage, every time my wife came in and said, you're not going to believe what's happened, I spiritually threw a hammer toward her and said, use this.

That'll fix anything. So that didn't work. That made it worse. And so now, you know what I do? And that's the opposite I do when I'm around men. I get out my violin and I start playing a song.

And it's beautiful. This is not actually happening. I'm playing that song because when I do that in a duck line, when I get out a violin, it embarrasses other men. Because I'm like, you're on it again. You're on it again. And they're like, oh, quit playing the violin. You're embarrassing me. Give me a hammer. Tell me how to crush it. How do I fix this? And so now when she comes in, I get it out. Zach, look. And I start playing.

And it's just beautiful harmony going in. I'm like, wow. Whoa. Incredible. But I'm not doing it sarcastic. No, you can't be sarcastic. That's a big, but that's a big difference. I mean, somebody, someone accused me and Brandon on our other podcast of this, but they could also accuse us on this podcast of this, which is, they said, do you guys ever ask each other questions? Are you all just trying to one-up each other?

And I sat with that comment for a little bit. I thought, why would I ask Brandon a question? I'm just going to tell him what I think. And then if I'm wrong, that is the question, right? Prove me wrong. And that's how we kind of – but the way we interact, too, is like that, like with each other. I mean, I don't call Jason –

very often say, Hey, can you tell me about this? Typically what I, as I call you, I have an idea already in mind. I give it to you and implied in that is if this is wrong, fix it. And then you respond. And that's the thing, but that's, and so we, we weed out all the filler, but yeah, there's no better. Wives are the filler and the completion of our lives. And actually, if you'll, you'll just stop and listen.

For a minute, which is very difficult for me to do. It is very difficult for me. You're like, okay, you kind of see it. And once you see it for the first time, you can't unsee it. And you're like, okay, she's upset about this and I need to let her get it all out.

Assure her that she is completely right for feeling this way because this is just, can you believe this happened? Okay, it happened. And then let's give her some comfort on it and say some complimentary things. And then the next thing you know, she's off that. We've moved on. Well, and you also build up a certain trust level.

from them to us, because if you're willing to listen and hear someone out, then when they say, well, what do you think? I mean, they'll begin to trust you enough to ask the question. So you can trust,

help come up with ideas. And so I've noticed that Lisa and I have grown to that point in our marriage where she says, do you think we should do this, that, or the other? She's asking me as the leader of our family, what do you think about this? But if I never heard her, if I never listened to what she said, she would only resent it when I told her. So that's what happens when you don't build it this way. Yeah, and if you never listen to her

Your leadership is, is going to be horrible. I mean, I think, I mean, honestly, and I know you guys will say the same thing about your wives, but Jill has a discernment that is far beyond anything that I could discern. I mean, her, like her voice in my life.

is the dominant voice outside of Christ, you know, or the Holy Spirit. Like her, when it comes to people and you say, man, who influences your thought? Who influences what you do? Like who has the biggest influence in your life as a person, as a human being that's living right now or dead? And it's Jill. I mean, Jill, she has a discernment. So if I was, if, if our relationship was one sided where I was just living

Where it was like she was treating her like a child. I'm leaving her in that way. That ain't what this is. This is not that type of relationship. It is the term used in theological circles is it's a complementarian thing.

thing that the different roles complement each other. So you have a synergy, which means the sum of the parts is greater than the whole where one plus one doesn't equal two. It equals 10 when you bring them together. And that's what happens inside of a marriage. I believe, I think scripture teaches this too inside of a marriage.

Yeah, there's some different roles going on here, and one's not better than the other. It's the complement of both of them. And the reason why is because it reflects the triune nature of God.

I mentioned this in one of our other podcasts. This is rooted back into who is God. God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit. When God creates man in his own image, it says he created them both male and female. And when God had just created man by himself, he hadn't created Eve yet. He looked down and said, it's not good that man should be alone. Why? Because it doesn't reflect his nature. So it's the coming together of the diversity and the unity. And if you erase the diversity, you

then you don't have the relationship. It's not, let's all be the same thing. That's not what this is. It's not a call, let's all be exactly the same. No, it's actually, let's take the differences between the two, bring them together in one being, and that is the reflection of who God is. God is a Father, and God is Son, and God is Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. The Spirit is not the Son.

The son is not the father. The son is not the spirit. And the father is not the son or the spirit. They're not the same person, but they're one in being. And that's what's reflective in these passages here that we're looking at in Colossians. Well, and think about this. I think about because we have a lot of young men in our audience. Is it coincidence that the two things that Paul says you've got to look out for men is being harsh with your wife and embittering your children?

I mean, he said that directly to us as a dad and as a husband. So when I look at all the situations I've talked to, Jess, you mentioned many, many times with a couple over parenting issues or over marriage issues.

I would have to say those two were at the top of the list for most men in terms of a weakness that they had in their relationship. Harsh with their wife and then bitter their children. And at a place then where it becomes hard for either to respect you as...

as Christ would want you respected as he respects the father. And so to your point, Zach, well, see the nature of Christ and you see the nature of how we strive to be. Well, what Zach said and what you just reiterated is Philippians two. We always go there to show how Jesus, you know, became a man and he did it in humility. And I, and I've always linked it to him, but kind of becoming a man and,

He didn't do what Adam and Eve did, which was that temptation was, you know, when the evil one told him, said, if you do this, you'll be like God. And here's Jesus becoming a human. Well, he was tempted by the same evil one. Sure. And went through the three temptations, you know, that's recorded. But he didn't consider God.

him being a God on earth as what we all do as humans. And I think that's what that phrase is talking about when he says, verse six, who being in very nature, God did not consider a quality of God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant. But what's interesting is that is in response to what

Paul wrote the Philippians in the first four verses about us. He says, if you have any encouragement, this is verse one of Philippians two, from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, these are all relationship qualities that you can only share with something, some other being or some other person.

Then make my joy complete by being like mine and having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. We're back on this selflessness again. But in humility, consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interest of others. We never think about this section being the foundation for marriage. It is. But it's the foundation for all relationships, friendships, parenting, relationships.

The Godhead. I mean, these moments where you're sacrificing and being selfless is how we come together despite our differences and despite our roles. No, this that's what it's that it's that idea, though, that was corrupted in the fall.

That the words in this passage are submit, which is a bad word in 2024, because I'm thinking submit. I ain't submitting. I mean, I even when I hear it, I'm like, well, I'm not. If someone said, hey, submit to me. If someone told me that anybody I'd be like, no, that'd be my first response. No. Why? Because that word, it means something different personally.

post-fall because now if I submit to you, that sounds like you're in control of me. Or words like serve, like it says right here, you are serving the Lord Christ. Serve me. These are things that we have a negative understanding of them because we live in a world that's fallen, which means we live in a world where there's this word called abuse.

We live in a world where there's this thing called manipulation. We live in a world where there's this thing called positioning. And so in that world, yeah, it's risky. It's very risky to submit. It's very risky to serve. It's very risky to love. It's very risky to obey these things because they put me in a position where if I obey you and you have nefarious intentions, then you may harm me.

But that's the thing that Christ is redeeming is that is not how it is in the inner life of God. There's no fear of submission inside the Godhead because no one's ever going to take advantage of you. And so the coming of the kingdom is to redeem that and to restore that order that was there pre-fall.

Think about it. What you just said was Jesus was consistent. Before he came here, he submitted to the Father that he would come here. That was an act of submission, like you just read. He did not consider equality to be grasped, but he became us, a servant. When he got here, he's a baby and then he's a child, but he's still a son of God.

And then you remember the scene in Luke 2 where he gets lost, and then they come back, and they're like, well, what are you doing? Three days we've been looking for you. He said, well, didn't you know I'd be here at my father's house? And then the Bible says he went with them and obeyed them. So now he's submitted to his earthly parents, and his dad, his earthly dad is not even really his dad, but he submits to him.

Then he has disciples, and on the night before he's going to be betrayed, he gets down and washes their feet. He submits himself even to his followers. And then later that night when they come to get him, and he could have ended the whole thing if he had wanted to, he submitted to his enemies. Exactly. So you look at the consistency of Jesus in every aspect of his deity and his humanity.

The one consistent is submission and sacrifice. That's what I was going to say. Everybody goes here, and like I said, people have weaponized this throughout history. And even the part where it gets to the slaves and masters, and I think I hopefully depicted that this was a totally different situation than what slavery became and abuse of the scriptures themselves over slavery.

taking advantage of races or lower classes of people. Well, like Zach said, there's plenty of Old Testament pastors where they were told, the Israelites were told, don't do that. Oh, yeah. I mean, people have always wanted to have an elite status of human beings over other human beings, and great atrocities have happened because of that. But in this case, they had a system that

It was like what we view employers and employees. And they went around with the family. And not to say there probably wasn't abuses of that, because I'm sure there was. And there still are. But this was more about what are you going to do with this power and authority on earth? Well, in Christ, he kind of gives you this idea that what Jesus said, all authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me. Yeah.

And I'm in all through all. I mean, not only did I save you, I want to work through you. I want your spirit, my spirit to be in you. And so we know what the fruit of the spirit is. It's the same kind of qualities. We're talking about love, joy, peace, patience. So even in your leadership, that's what people should see. Well, when they see a husband and wife come together and they both have this, even though their roles are different, they both have this selfless attitude.

acts of love on a daily basis. That's why when he got to the end of Ephesians 5 and he said, this is a mystery, but I'm talking about you're married to Christ. But you can see that in the way that two spirit-filled people are functioning, male and female, in a marriage relationship. They can become one and this thing can become vibrant. And you really see that with people who are in the Lord and have been married a long time and they just...

I mean, they just feed off each other. It becomes a beautiful spectacle to the planet in this relationship. So I really think once you start reading it in that vein, it comes to life.

So after, I mean, yeah, it could be beautiful. I mean, I think that it's super controversial, obviously, even in theological circles and good people, great people disagree on what we're talking about. And it particularly even when you get to how God interacts in his inner life and there's these big terms like the subordination, eternal subordination of the sun, which is basically that the sun always exists.

Was he always subordinate to the Father or not? And there's lots of controversy and discussion around it. But I do think when you boil it all down, that Philippians 2 passage is so key for me too. I actually think that there's something in the cross that is reflective of the very core of the nature of God. And in that, I mean that in God's nature, there is this

sacrificial nature, sacrifice being defined as meeting the needs of others, unto meeting the needs of others. So Christ embodies that in his incarnation. I mean, you just look at like, when you try to get your mind around the, we just got through with Christmas. You try to get your mind around the fact that the God of the universe incarnated, that passage in Colossians, that the fullness of God

lives in a body. I mean, that alone, you want to talk about a submission, you want to talk about a sacrifice, you want to talk about an empty, and I think there's something in this that is the key to our own human flourishment is when we embody that type of life

the life of Christ, we actually experience something vibrant as opposed to the opposite of that, which the opposite of the cross is I'm going to conquer you. I'm going to destroy you. I'm going to win at all costs. That doesn't seem to be the pathway to human fulfillment. But the pathway to human fulfillment seems to be what Jesus modeled for us here in the cross. And I think this passage reflects that.

Yeah, exactly. I agree. And that's why when he moved to children, saying children, obey your parents in everything for this praises the Lord. Well, if you realize this is about how you use your authority and you realize in that moment. So in the Ephesian passage, he adds this amendment with not only do you obey, but you honor your parents.

Where's that at? Ephesians 6, children obey your parents in the Lord for this is right. But then he says, honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth, which a lot of scholars kind of look at it like, all right, when you're a kid, you obey.

When you become older as an adult, you honor. It's like that's your phase, which is what we do. I mean, we're doing that with my dad right now. He's down. He's ill.

His mind's not working as much. And you say, well, what do you do? Well, we're honoring him because, I mean, boy, did he lay down a legacy for us. For us to live. And the Lord. And I really believe that comes with a blessing. But it also is scary because you realize that you have an opportunity with your kids in your position as fathers or mothers.

Well, you can really do them some harm in your decisions. And that's what you mentioned about, you know, here comes manipulation and abuse. And I just think it's a dangerous responsibility that we have. And outside of Christ, that would just be...

Really dangerous on how you're influencing your kids. Well, listen to people in our culture today, because that word embitter, the Greek word there is erythrozo. And I didn't realize this until I looked up that word. There is a disorder now called erythism. And I know it has to come from that word, erythrozo. And you know what the symptoms are of this disease, Jay? Extreme irritability.

Someone that's irritable all the time has this, they call it erethism. And it's interesting because how many people in our culture do you hear talk about their relationships that they didn't or didn't have with their mother or father that had led to so much of how they're acting out now in their entire lives?

So when he just says this one little statement, do not imbibed your children, that has a huge broad spectrum of bad that can happen. Well, exactly. And you remember we brought up, we started off this podcast talking about Matthew 19 when divorce got brought up and he went back to Genesis saying, you know, this is the way, this is the ideal God design, you know, one woman, one man for life.

And but right before that chapter is Matthew 18. And you remember what that's all about. And I think we should talk about it next time.

on the podcast is that he's like, you want to know who the greatest in the kingdom of heaven is? And he's like, he called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said, I'll tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children. Well, he goes on to give you the reasons why. But when you think of a child and what they are asked to do, which is sacrifice what they want to do and obey and trust,

And it's back to that authority thing. They're totally dependent on you, especially the smaller they are.

And it gives you a picture of what we are to be created in Christ Jesus to our heavenly father, which is totally dependent on him and trusting. Well, for us as fathers, that's a big responsibility. You better sure make sure what you're doing is godly. Because he goes on to say, if you cause them to stumble, it'd be better for you to be thrown in a sea with a millstone tied around your neck. It was the most graphic that...

That Jesus could be. Which shows you how much he loves them. So we're out of time. We'll get into that next time. And also we're going to kind of do a detour over to the book of Philemon. We want to read ahead.

Because it is an actual story from someone in Colossae that very much fits this context. It is. So we'll do that next time. See you. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed Podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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