Ep 1019 | Jase Unpacks Why Jesus Is So Controversial & What to Do If Your Spouse Feels Like Your Enemy
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I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We've kind of been talking about the last podcast, this idea of a new year, the idea that for me, I've been using the term to know Jesus better. Jason's been talking about Jesus stuff. How do we make Jesus stuff applicable? When are we going to do the Jesus stuff? That was my point. Right, right, right. As a church, as a family, as an individual.

Because I'm just saying, when you read the Gospels and then look at your life, there should be a profound... Yeah.

Does my life look like Jesus? I have his spirit in me, right? Right. And I like the idea. So you brought the, you ended the last podcast by telling the story about you apologizing to Missy, which by the way, we should never get too far along in life. We can't apologize to anybody, especially people we love the most. But I love the idea because I was thinking the exact same thing, Jace. When you, when you first become a Christian, when you, when you go all in, you believe you surrender. There is a point in time where we just get to that point where we're

It's unmanageable where we are and we give in. And for some people, that's very young. Some people it's older. Some people have stuff in between. I call it the proclamation of intention. In other words,

I'm proclaiming I want to be a follower of Jesus. And according to Ephesians 1.13, when that happens, we receive the Spirit of Christ. We are included in Him. It says we're marked in Him with the deposit of our resurrection, the Holy Spirit. But then, and I brought up Ephesians 1.17.18. For me, it was just kind of my theme verse for this year, even though we're going to be studying John.

There's this idea that if we have a spirit of willingness, now that we've made our intention, I call that the process of integrity.

In other words, it takes time to build integrity. You mentioned 34 years in marriage with Missy. For Lisa and I, it's been 40 years. It's been a process. And look, there's been some rough times and there's been some amazing times. But over the course of the time, there's an integrity for both of us that's grown. And that's the process of growth in Christ. That's what should be happening. We shouldn't look at the end. We get down to the end of our lives like mom and dad, been together 60 years now, and I'll watch them grow.

And man, the integrity they have for each other and their relationship with God, that's the way we want it to be as we get closer to the end. The biblical word for that is sanctification. There you go. It's being freed from

progressively from the power of sin over the span of your life. And that's something that happens in measure as you walk and grow in maturity. And I'm so glad you brought that word up, Zach, because I think it's in, is it First Thessalonians? It talks about the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. So you can't have sanctification if you first don't have the Holy Spirit, because that's the source of

Of the work that goes on over the course of your life. And some people get it quicker. Some people it takes longer. Well, John, John makes that, or Jesus makes that point in John's gospel too. I mean, you get to, when we get to John 14, 16, 15, 16, 17. Right. He says the spirit of truth will guide you into all truth. And he links, Jesus links the Holy spirit with the agent of the Trinity who reveals truth to the believer and,

And he says in John 17 that that truth then sanctifies the believer. So he prays that they'll be sanctified by the truth. Your word is truth. Well, how are you going to hear the word? The Holy Spirit reveals that to us and he reveals to us who God is. And so the reason why that results in sanctification and being freed from the power or the grip of sin is that when God reveals abundant life to me, which is himself,

And as I participate in the abundant life, as I participate in him, then I stop believing in the lies because I'm actually tasting in the goodness of God. And my faith increases as I give glory to him. Romans chapter four. That's what happened with Abraham. I think that's the progression of how that happens. No, I like it. And so so here's my little way of framing it. And this is a sermon I'm working on for Ephesians.

There's a proclamation of intention, Ephesians 1, 13, 14. There's a process of integrity that takes place when we have a willingness and a heart that seeks wisdom. And then the last thing is verse 18, when he says, we pray the eyes of our hearts may be enlightened to know the true hope of our inheritance. And that's what I call the promise of being an image bearer. In other words,

Jesus came and said, if you've seen me, you've seen the father. I'm the image bearer of God. And he says in what the Hebrew writer says, Hebrews 1.3, he's the exact representation of the father while he's here. But he became one of us, Hebrews 2, 14 through 18, so that now we have an opportunity to be an image bearer of him.

He went back to the right hand of the Father where he reigns as our king. And now here we are on earth as his image bearer. So when people see us, they should see the same qualities, qualities.

They should see the same compassion, the same heart for wanting to continue to bless people as he would if he were here doing it himself. And so I just think that's a worthy goal. And while that's a one-time decision to go all in, let's face it, all of us go through periods in our life where we have to rededicate ourselves to that process. Yeah, it is a process. The verse that I keep thinking of is in Galatians 3.

He says, you're all sons of God in verse 26, through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of us, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Yeah. My seat is getting lower. I thought you were just being so overwhelmed. Every time I said something, the seat was- It was the weight of the word that you were carrying was so heavy, Jason. Just think about this. So you're clothed.

With Christ. So you've put him on. Yep. Well, that means, forget this, he's a million miles away. You're putting him on. Yeah. Well, then chapter four and verse six, it says, because you are sons, God sent the spirit of his son into our hearts.

Well, now we're getting closer. We went from putting him on to putting him in our heart, the secret place where we're thinking, meditating, thinking no one is watching. That's right. And then in verse 19 of chapter 4, he says, My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth, because he's wrestling with them because they're trying to add something to Christ.

He says, until Christ is formed in you. I mean, so you put him on, he puts the spirit in your heart, and then it begins to form from the heart out. And now we're back to what we talked about last podcast, where you become Jesus on the earth. You're now walking as Jesus did. And so when you look at how Jesus operated...

it was pretty radical in who he took on, the conversations he had, who he ate with, how he was totally dependent on what the father had as a plan. That's something we haven't really talked about, but he really discusses that in John in various places. The implementation of the father's plan is a huge part that I hope we will get into because there is a...

definitive plan that is revealed in the entirety of scripture that when you read it as that mosaic we talked about it makes a lot of sense but you mentioned

I previously in the last podcast and brought it up in this one about the guy who came out of kind of the hippie world. He didn't have a great context for kind of church culture, our language, our nuances, our kind of vibe. So he comes into the church and he's looking around. Hey, when are we going to start doing this stuff? Like you were telling that story earlier. And I was I've thought about that a lot because I've witnessed that in our church. Now there's we have a lot of people who are very new to the faith.

And they're not coming from the Bible Belt culture. I had a couple on...

the Not Yet Now podcast, Jordan and Vanessa Hall, who came out of Silicon Valley, and their story's amazing. But I remember when they came to Christ, I was like, man, you guys are taking this very serious. And what I mean by that is they were asking that same question. We want to do the things that Jesus did. And I think the reason why we have a hard time with that is because we have got so obsessed with the finished work of Christ that we

we think that Christ is finished. And I'm like, isn't the same thing? Yeah. It's like, yeah, the, the, the finished work of Christ just means that he accomplished our salvation on the cross, our justification. It was, it was accomplished on the cross, but the Bible also says that he sits at the right hand of the father and

and that he mediates. So he's not done. And I think we're so afraid when we talk about, well, you got to do, what do you mean do? You don't have to do anything. Like it's all God's grace. We're so afraid of like the legalism that maybe we came out of, but like, like that's not what this means. And there's so much in the Bible about becoming and about being formed. And we are moving to become a particular kind of person. And the verse you just read, we are, the goal is to be formed in,

into the image of Christ. I mean, that is the goal, that we're formed to be like our Savior. And we do stuff. We do the things. We should be doing the things that He did. I think the key is this. What is your motivation in doing those things? Is your motivation, I'm earning my salvation and proving myself worthy? Don't do that. Or is your motivation, I want to be formed into the image of Christ? Do that. Exactly.

Well, I'll give you another verse that goes along with that. When you think Romans 8, 28, it says, and we know that in all good things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. Now, just think about when we usually use that verse. We wait till something bad happens. Well, okay, God works for the good. Well, what is the good? He goes on to say what that good is. For those God foreknew, he also predestined

To be conformed to the likeness of his son. Yeah. It just keeps coming up. Right. I mean, think Romans 12 when he says, but be transformed in the renewing of your mind. Well, what is going through your mind? I need to be like Jesus. Right. And he's given, God has given us the spirit of his son.

So that's how this works. And you're like, well, what should my attitude be? It should be the same as that of Christ Jesus, who through humility stuck to the Father's plan, even though it didn't feel good and it resulted ultimately to him giving his life. But one of the things, as you mentioned in the last podcast about just sharing with people,

And because the human nature of part of us, once we see things from perspective, we've grown, we appreciate the blessings in Christ. We tend to only want to gravitate towards other people who are right there at that one place. But that's not what Jesus did. You mentioned about the biggest issue was the people he ate with, right? The people he interacted with and religious leaders of his day were like, why would you be doing that?

I mean, these people don't know anything. And he's like, that's the point. That's why I came here. So if you think about how that relates to us, we should have interactions with people who don't have a clue yet. Yeah. So we can give them a clue. And I love that that happens with Jesus. That happens over food. Yeah. And a meal. And they were upset about who he was eating and drinking with. He asked the question, why eating? Why drinking? Why does that matter?

I think it matters because those terms of eating a meal together, like why do we eat? Because we're hungry. Why don't we drink? Because we're thirsty. Those two ideas are synonymous with desire. There's another word for desire is hunger or thirst or appetite. And so I think that there's something that happens around the meal that

That is so powerful because it speaks to our human agency as beings who have hunger and have desire. And as Alexander Schmeman says, behind every hunger that man has is a hunger for God. So I think Jesus chose the table for a reason at our church.

we always say this, the focal point of our Sunday morning gathering is not the sermon. Although I would argue what I preach is pretty good, but you know, but that's not the point. The point of the Sunday morning gathering is the table. It is the communion. It is what we're doing around that table. And so when we think about being formed, uh,

into Christ, what does that actually mean? He said, what does it mean to be formed into the image of the Son? I'm predestined to be conformed into the image of the Son. What does that mean? It means that you desire what God desires. It means that you hunger what Christ hungers for. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness.

for they shall be filled. And so that's what it is. It's over the course of a lifetime to be conformed into his image is for your desires to be conformed into his image, into the desire he desires. And what he desires is to build the kingdom. That's what he desires.

Jason, New Year is upon us, and we could always use a little extra cash in your pocket, right? It's after the holidays, got a lot of stuff going on, a lot of stuff going out the door. And the older you get, the more goes out the door around Christmas time. That's it.

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That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. Use the promo code unashamed. And what do you get, Zach? Cash back. Well, that's when you got to have a realization that if you're only being conformed into Jesus's likeness two hours a week at a gathering, that's not very much. Right. And that's why I'm saying you can't do Jesus stuff.

inside a building twice a week. That's true. And look, the more you grow, the more you should always be able to help other people grow. I mean, that's just part of the natural process over the course of the holidays.

There were two different occasions in our home, in our southern layer, Lisa and I, sharing a meal, having some of our friends over, different places of their own Christian walk. Some are new Christians. Some have been there a while. But we got into stuff about one of the couples that was there, their children's son is going through a divorce.

Well, that's created a huge amount of problems on the whole family. It's difficult because you've got this separation going on. So they're genuinely seeking, what can we do? How can we help? And they're asking Lisa and I these questions. And even though we haven't gone through that specifically,

Because I understand what Jesus did and can point back to some of the things he points out in the scripture, I'm able to give them good advice, good spiritual counsel to help them in that situation. That's part of the process of helping people see who Jesus is in the moment. Because look, things get sideways in a marriage, in a relationship, and that's when you need Christ the most. There was another couple there, and this guy had had a strange relationship from his father as an adult.

And basically just a cutoff. I don't want to have anything to do with it anymore. Well, I mean that you tell me I heard at a deep level. I mean, we're going through this stuff with dad. I can't imagine if what would, if we didn't have this close relationship, we've had of all the years of being together and him guiding us and teaching us for this moment. So those are things, if you're not prepared through your own walk with Christ, you can't offer anything to anybody else. And so, uh,

One is you have to be willing. You have to be open. You have to have those table moments that we're talking about. That's how you share Jesus. That's real life. That's what I was saying about the duck blind. I've tried to make it into a place where Jesus people are gathering. And so little speeches are being given. Prayers are being offered, which is not the norm. Duck hunting is a rough hobby. I mean, you're getting muddy. You're doing a lot of heavy lifting.

There's firearms involved. There's a lot of bickering about where we're going to go, how we're going to set up. And so it's just men being men. And so then when all of a sudden you start talking about Jesus and how we should be, I mean, the conversations tend to change. But you know, it's interesting, Jason, when you brought that up a minute ago and you're talking about being clothed with Christ and then having him in you and being formed into something, a unit.

For him, I thought about, honey, I thought about a dupline because everybody's clothed similar to be concealed. Oh, yeah.

And the idea is we're here because we're after these wily birds that you've got to trick them to get them in there. And so everybody works as a unit. And when you accomplish that, when a big flock of birds comes in, you get them in just right and you do everything you're supposed to do, there's this feeling of exultation and joy. I mean, it's palpable. Everybody's high-fiving. So I thought about it. Even in that little microcosm, it's the same mindset. It's the idea of being clothed.

Having in us the same desire to do the same things, to work together. Well, it's a belonging. And look, really at the heart of all this is we are human beings who want this sense of belonging. And I see these young duck boys I talked about on the last podcast.

They want to belong. Yeah. They don't know what they're doing. Right. So they do things that are embarrassing. They get chewed out by the older members, you know. But that struggle, it's kind of like a family. It is. Your kids get older and you have conflict. And you say, nope, this is not what we're supposed to be representing. And really, I mean, think about what we're going to study in John. Really, this whole idea about being born again in John chapter 3 when you get to Nicodemus.

was really about God introducing this new family that you can be a part of. And here's a Pharisee of Pharisees, one of the leaders in the religious world of their day, and Jesus in the image of God saying, you need to be born again. I mean, just imagining how that came across. It's like, do what? Because I really think one of the important points there is

was he was looking at his heritage, which he had right. He was like, we're part of God's chosen people, and I'm a leader in that. And here's a guy claiming to be

the son of the same God saying, you need to be born again. It's like, what? That was something where you understand the context of that that seemed like, are you crazy? This is my credential. That's a good point because imagine from his perspective, he's like, you're talking about being born right. I'm in the right tribe, in the right nation, in the right spot. I mean, how would I possibly need to be born again? Yeah, and I see these –

These guys who come duck hunting, I mean, I'm making a terrible illustration because there's no way to really relate to that, to the creator of the universe. But they think, oh, I'll go shoot some skeet, take a safety course, you know, read some duck identification books, watch a couple videos on, you know, TikTok or whatever. And, you know, I got it figured out. And they get out there and they realize, well,

You can flush most of that. Not that any of those things are necessarily bad. Right. But the true experience, I mean, this morning we had a 10-minute argument over where we're going to hunt tomorrow. It's going to be a Northwest wind, strong. And so Jay, who is a veteran, but he started naming off the duck holes. Well, he named one of them, and I thought,

Well, the wind's going to be blowing in our face. Not completely in our face, but it's hitting us on the right cheek. So which means ducks are like airplanes. When they land, they go in. They come in over the left shoulder if the wind's on the right. They're going to have to come over the top of the blind. Yeah. So I said, well, they would be, you know, they'd have to come from behind us in this, the elm hole is what it's called. Well, Jay, he's on the other end of the blind. He sends me a map.

of where that a google earth map of where that blind is and i said i appreciate that but that doesn't change what i'm telling you and so look then he sends me a picture of a compass overlaid on the map and i was like i appreciate that i've hunted that blind in a northwest wind

Because if the argument became, where is west? Yeah. Where is north? And he didn't understand why I wasn't participating in the argument. And I was saying, I've hunted there on a northwest wind. I don't care what that map says. Those ducks are going to come from behind us. And they're...

But he just couldn't get it, you know. Your experience trumped all the academic knowledge is what you're saying. Exactly. And that's what I'm saying. There's no substitute for experiences while the duck boys are struggling.

Because they think they know what they know, but there's something. I mean, that's such a. Duck hunting is unpredictable. That's a great. That is a great analogy to what we're saying. Because when you were initially talking about all this at the beginning, I was thinking about a song that we used to sing back when I was running the college ministry at White Street Road. And the line was, I don't want to talk about you like you're not in the room.

And the idea was that we can get into these discussions about the Lord and we can sing these songs together.

And we're doing it in a way as if he's not present. But to experience him in a real way, which Christ, I mean, he came in the flesh. That's the whole point. John 1, 1, the word became flesh. I mean, like, and dwelt among us. So that is the point. And to walk with Christ, to dwell with Christ, is like, I'm actually going, and I've been duck hunting every day for the last, every duck season for the last,

40 years, I mean, you can't replicate that kind of experience. I mean, I can read about it all I want. You know intuitively, because you've been doing it a lot more, Jason, anybody, I mean, you're going to know intuitively stuff about duck hunting

That nobody else is going to know if you only go three or four or 10 times a year. Well, just imagine how Jesus have a discussion with Jewish leaders. James brought up Nicodemus at the beginning of this and they're saying, yeah, but we, we know we've, we've spent multi generations of preparing for the moment of the Messiah. And, and yet they don't realize they're talking to the Messiah. He's like, I am the guy you've been talking about.

The ultimate experience of God in flesh. And they're like, yeah, but let us tell you what we know because, you know, we've been prepared. They knew so much about him, but they could not recognize him. Well, my point is that most people are not doing Jesus stuff because they think, well,

It may be the preacher's job, but well, that's what we're paying you to do. That's right. Which Ephesians 4, which you're going to get in your series, says the exact opposite. The leaders are supposed to prepare God's people, the rank and file people, for works of service, which is what Jesus' whole ministry was. He came here not to be served, but to serve and give his life ransom.

And that was in the context of Zacchaeus, who was a tax collector, a wee little man, you know, up in a tree. And what did Jesus do? He invited himself, you know, to his house. Which you make such a good point. If a pastor's doing his job, he works himself out of a job. Yeah.

I mean, is that not true, Zach? I mean, you're always good. I'm always going to have pastoral DNA in me, and I'm going to be helping people and growing people. But at some point, I work myself out of a job because I'm training people to do exactly what they're supposed to do. Well, exactly. That's why I brought up John Tyson. I said I like his story because he's focused on Jesus because you listen to a few of his sermons, and he has picked New York City.

To go and say, look, he's trying to get those people to go out in the streets and in their apartments. And I was going to say homes, but they're upstate. Right. And share Jesus. Yeah. Well-

Have you been to New York? I've been there. Yeah. I actually did a little street preaching there when I was just late in my teenage years. It did not go well. I was about to say, how'd that go? It was met with resistance frequently and often. And so what I was going to say is that's one excuse. But the other excuse is, well, I don't know enough or I don't know the verses. I don't know what to say because these conversations are intimidating.

And so I was going to use the illustration. So now Jay and I have that argument. And he finally relented because he knew. I was like, it'll work. I'm just telling you on a northwest wind, they're going to come over my left-hand shoulder and they're going to come

from behind us, which I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's just a lot harder to shoot them. He just kept saying, well, they're going to come left or right. I'm like, I know you want them. You want to make them go left or right on Northwest wind. I've hunted there. They've never come in that they come over my left shoulder. So I don't really care what the map says or on a Northwest wind, they're coming over the back of the blind.

And so he's like, okay. But then another conversation, which was private because after the hunt, well, one of the people that was there listening to the Jesus conversations, he started asking me for marriage advice on the way back in the Wheeler. I'm not a marriage counselor. I mean, everybody asks me about marriage. I'm like, it's hard because I feel like my wife and I did everything right as far as the X's and O's. Yeah. We...

We're virgins when we got married on our honeymoon night. I mean, I've made all the jokes about that. It was more a biological experiment, you know, ha, ha, ha. But there was no shame there. And so we both loved Jesus. We didn't have a lot in common besides that. Marriage is difficult. It still wasn't easy, was it? No, it's never been easy. And you never can let your guard down. You got to wake up every...

Morning, ready to serve, ready to be like Jesus in this relationship. And when both people are doing that, it's the greatest moments of that, but it's still going to be difficult. But my point is, so what you say, what do you say? I don't know what to say if somebody asks for marriage advice. Well, my first response was because, and this is what typically happens. He spent five minutes talking about what she's doing. Right.

Zero about his contributions, good or bad or ugly. So I did take note of that. So I said, well, here's my advice. You got to remember that ultimately the greatest marriage is our marriage to Jesus himself. He's the husband and we're as his surrendered servants. We're the bride of Christ.

And so I introduced Jesus because I'm thinking, I got to have that foundation. When nobody told me to say that, I was just thinking, if you're like Jesus in your marriage, what your role is, here's a man, and the verses are obvious, Ephesians 5. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. He goes down to the end. This is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about you and being the bride of Christ.

So I started there. And then I said, from my experience, what you need to do is think about where you've been messing up. Forget what she's done.

Because that's really all that you can change. Am I right? So I was like, the best way to change your behavior and your habits is how it reflects in your relationship with the Lord Jesus. Because he's king of kings. We're surrendered to him. Look at the qualities he offers. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. I quoted that. The spirit that Christ has given us. I did all those quotes, Galatians 3, 27, Galatians 4, 6.

Galatians 4, 19. But then it gets to 522, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience. In other words, what you're saying is everything that benefits a Christian walk in a relationship with Christ is

doubled that for a marriage because all those principles you just mentioned are good. Yeah. If I, if the fruit of our marriage is love, joy, peace, peace, God, I mean, we're like, man, we're, we're doing the right things. We're, we're, we're moving in the right direction. So I, and I'm just using this as illustration. I mean, this happened today, but I'm saying, so here, and so he, he said, well,

Now that I think about it, I was like, no, don't tell me. I said, I could care less. I said, make the list. I don't want to hear what you've been doing. I was like, make a list in your mind or write it down. I was like, go to her and say, I'm fixed to change this.

I was like, you're going to be amazed because he was all the stuff that she said. And if what he said, she said was true, terrible. Yeah. Who cares? Right. What can you do about that? I was like, you go to her. I said, just the fact that you will not say anything about her. You talk about what you're going to do in the name of Jesus to be Jesus in this marriage. I was like, I think that's a good place to start.

Now, having said all that, I didn't read that out of a book. I mean, he asked me a question. What am I going to say? I feel like in that moment, God has sent this person to me to represent him. And so I'm like, well, what am I going to say? I really didn't think about it. I just, in the course of this conversation, I really didn't plan on sharing this, but

I thought, well, I was trying to be Jesus in the moment. What is he doing in this situation? So I focused on his relationship with God in the name of Jesus. I thought maybe he might say, well, what is it about Jesus that

Makes you say that, but he didn't say that. So I think he took it as a believer. I'm not sure where he's at in his journey, but I'm saying you don't have to have all the, you don't have to have a bunch of encyclopedias or say, well, you need to call a marriage counselor. Now, maybe they will one day. Right. But I thought in the moment.

Let's share Jesus because I know he can transform you and you can own what you're doing. And I guarantee you there's something. He didn't say, oh, I'm not doing anything wrong. Oh, no. He hung his head and was like, yeah, there's like, let's start here. And so that was the marriage advice. But I think it was filtered through Jesus, which made me conclude that anybody can do this.

You think about that, what you said earlier about the verse about being conformed into the image of the son. So what does that look like? How can I be conformed into his image in my marriage when my spouse is literally become an enemy of mine? What do I do? Well, Romans 5, while we were enemies, Christ died for us. So that is that you are embodying the spirit of Christ in your marriage life.

But when you say it, when you approach it the way you said, because the other way is just the way you don't know, you don't understand, you don't understand what they're doing. And when you start going down that road, you're never going, like you can't control what that person does. And if you look at the model of Christ, you,

Christ died for us, not when we got it right. He didn't submit himself to death for our sins while we were in a great relationship with him, while we had come to him and said, we want to be with you. He died for us while we were enemies.

While we were enemies. And I think that's key. I mean, it's just an example of what you're talking about. This is how you embody this out in your life. No, and I think the marriage is such a good illustration. That's why I'm glad you brought that up in that conversation, because it's what I was mentioning earlier. This idea that we proclaim our intentions differently.

And then we worked through a process together. That's what you described in this young person and their marriage. It's always going to be difficult. Things will happen. That's why you have to go back to the start and say, okay, messed up here, gotten off track. We're getting to this place of not being able to manage well. It's unmanageable. What do we do? Let's go back to the beginning. We made a commitment to one another.

We won't spend the rest of our lives together. The path we're on right now, that's going to become very difficult unless one of us proclaims our intentions will change. Then we reset that process of integrity. Look, you know where we wind up? Being an image bearer. We look like Jesus when we do that. Well, right. That's why when we get to John 2, the first miraculous sign, because most religious people get hung up

on why that was the first miracle. Yeah. Very good question. And, you know, later, Missy and I recently watched, because she's doing her fast and watching The Chosen, and we both watched the episode of The Chosen where they went to this wedding. And, you know, what I love about The Chosen is it spawned a very long conversation because Missy was like, do you think this was the first time his mom...

like said, help me here. Cause she obviously knows this is the son of God. Cause she hadn't forgotten it. Well, she's, she was a virgin when he, when he was born. And you remember every time, what few little times we saw an interaction with,

The same phrase was used. Mary pondered these things in her heart. Remember, that's the way the NIV puts it. In other words, everything that happened over the course of his growing up, she was like, oh, yeah, that's right. She's remembering what that angel told her. But Missy was like, but why now? What now?

And I said, well, babe, I really think this was a sign of this wedding feast. And I was thinking Revelation, is that 21? This, we're the bride of Christ. I think he, and she was like, what are you talking about? I was like, well, that's what I think. I think it was a sign pointing. This is going to be a new family. And I started going through all the symbolic signs. I was like,

Jesus is a transformer. If he can take water and turn it into wine, what could he do to me? And where I am, this is a new creation. And so then even the jars, I was like, well, you got to think of the Jewish system. These were like, he took those jars that were a sign of the purification process. They would and would use it in ceremonial washing. And I said, I think he...

He transformed them. It's like even in the conversation, think about what she said when they had that little conversation. And I'm just previewing this, but his mom came and said, they have no more wine. And he's like, well, why do you involve me? My time has not yet come. Well, what did he mean by that? Well, we know what he meant. Right.

Because we knew what was coming. I'm not sure she did exactly, but you got to remember, he came out of her body in a way that she knew he was not from this planet. Right. That is a fact. And so she's like, well, his mother said to the servants, do whatever he tells you. But just think about that one statement on its own. Yeah. What was that a sign to you?

I think about the transfiguration with God himself. Here he is radiating with two guys that were on the planet years before, and this voice says, this is my son whom I love and whom I'm well pleased. But then he says, listen to him. And I think his mom said, look, I don't know what he's going to do, but you need to do whatever he tells you. He's just a...

Fill in the blank. She was having trouble wrapping her head around it, but she knew he was from God. Well, we know for sure she didn't know about the whole death and the cross because he hadn't brought all that out yet. Probably not. But she does know he's the Messiah and he's come to save Israel. That part she believes fully. And so she knew there was something supernatural. Why would she even ask him? Unless she knew that there were possibilities. Yeah.

I don't know that she knew he was going to turn it into wine, but she knew he was going to do something. But Missy's point was, but so many religious people have so many problems with this chapter. It makes them uncomfortable. And they're like, why? Well, later on, it's going to say, don't get drunk on too much wine. And I think it's looking at it so small that it's missing the big picture. And I only bring that up to say,

You don't have to be that intelligent to realize you can have conversations about who Jesus is and what he brings, especially in the transformational process and the belonging process, which is what I was saying about everybody has this sense of belonging and a need for it.

which is why you think of a lot of sins that we do. A lot of these extramarital affairs and these one-night hookups that happened last night tens of thousands of times on our planet. It's some kind of manifestation of I want to belong, but they're doing it in the wrong way. It's just like people are lonely and they want some sense to be involved in something.

And God made us, you know, in his own image. And we have this belonging ultimately in him. But we can have these conversations about, you know, through the filter of Jesus that it stirs people. It gets their attention. It's, you know, humans do not have it figured out. And Jesus makes you smart.

So that's what I'm declaring. I'm not a smart person, but I'm having a lot of conversations about Jesus. And that makes you look really smart in people's ears and eyes and in their minds, because what else does the world really have to offer? Yeah, you're right. And if you look in all the wrong places, you won't come up with the right answers. You think about it, salvation of anything.

usually comes from surrender and change. I mean, we have to change. We have to do something different than we've been doing it. It's the old insanity definition. But when you talk about your spiritual wall, that would relate to your marriage, relationship with your kids, with your parents, all of it. Anytime there's a breakdown, the only salvation is change. And the ultimate change is Jesus. I mean, because that's a constant in our lives. Well, I think the book of John is...

It seems complex for people that have never read it before once they start reading it. Now, because people who are familiar with what it says, we've dug and we've listened to what people say, and we kind of are familiar with what's being said. But when you think about just the first couple of verses, I mean, he just starts off saying, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

I think most people read that and say, what? That's right. And that's why I brought up that about the experience. When you're taking a word and then when you get down to verse 14, it becomes flesh. And I'll just go ahead and give this to you. His name was Jesus. You're like, why is he talking about the word? And when I think you go back to the beginning, because that's where he started, in the beginning.

was the word. I think this is a key moment to understand in the whole book and why he wrote it, because you go back to the beginning, because if you think creation, new creation, or if you think, well, what were some of the things said in the beginning? You remember God saying, let there be light. Well, what are they going to say after Jesus was here?

I think about when Peter said, let light shine out of our hearts. Let there be light. So you see where this is going. God's a creator, and now he's a transformer. He's a new creator. There's a parallel that I would recommend before our next podcast that the audience go read. Read these first five verses in John 1.

John 1, 1 through 5, and then read also Genesis chapter 1, because there's so much overlay to your point that you just mentioned about the word light. I mean, let there be light. Jesus was the light of the world. The world became flesh. I mean, there's so much here, the logos, everything was made through him, by him, nothing was made.

Then go back and read the creation account. And then what's going to happen is you're going to see that the incarnation that we call Christ, the incarnation of Yahweh, of the Son,

was all throughout the Old Testament. The Son was present in all the Old Testament. And so then what we're seeing in the New Testament is the incarnation of this figure, this member of the Godhead who was present the entire time. Yeah, and I think when you think about words, what do words do? Words...

Stir people, they make them mad, they give you credibility, they see if you're trustworthy, you know, all these things. And God seemingly does something impossible. He takes his word and makes it an experience in a human form. So I think there's something there because you remember evidently, so in his creation, you have these things

beings who don't want to conform to the image of God, which in the garden was Satan or the evil one. And what was one of the first things he said to God's next creation, which was humans? You remember when he, you know, God says, here's how this works. You got two trees in the middle. You're free to eat any of the trees, but don't eat of this tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And then the evil one comes up there.

and says, did God really say? Did he really say, don't eat of that tree? And so now you fast forward here to John. I mean, the world just goes off the rails because they decide to take this temptation and do the exact opposite of what God told them to say. I'm highlighting every time he said something from let there be light to let us make man in our image light.

Don't eat of that tree in the middle of the garden. You're free to eat all the other trees. Then here's the evil. So now you have good and evil, which part of God's creation that was made in his image in the heavenly realms is saying, did he really say? And so fast forward to John, after all those predicted scripture about there's a Messiah coming, there's a son of man coming. And he says in the beginning was the word, which is an expression of

of his nature, his character, this word of God. He was with God in the beginning. Nothing that was created that has been created was created without him. They're all alone. And then he becomes flesh and made his dwelling, which is living with other humans. I think John's description, Jace, is the...

All the gospel writers had a different perspective. Matthew was definitely more on the Jewish side of things, a lot of Old Testament fulfillment of prophecy and definitely a Jewish mindset of thinking about it. Luke, of course, being a Gentile, gives you a little different flavor. Same story, but given a little different way. Mark obviously came from more Peter's perspective because they spent so much time together. But John comes in, and he's the only one that starts at the beginning

And really presses in on the divine nature. That's why we're going to get into all the I ams that are in there. All that. It's just a beautiful perspective of really understanding that Jesus really is the son of God. And yet he's also flesh. And he talks about the idea of him in him as light and life and love. And, you know, those concepts are there. That's why I'm saying to go back to this J stone argument, what I wanted to say.

when he said northwest winds gonna be right to left i wanted to say what if i became the wind and hit you right below your eye and then said see see i'm right under your eye and i'm hitting which means the ducks will come well then i think he said okay you win

But the only way is if you become the wind. At this point, it was an argument about words. And I could not become the wind to just say, look, I'm now the wind. I went from being Jace over here giving you my theories and experiences to

And so I'm saying I'm trying to give you an illustration of how this happened, but God became a man is what I'm saying. God became a man. So we're almost out of time. I want to read this at the end because next time we're going to dive into John 1. But sometimes you go to the end of the book, you learn some things. In John 20, verse 30, John tells you why he wrote this book. Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which John was one, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written.

that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing, you may have life in his name. So he's going to tell you exactly what the whole purpose is by why he did what he did. And that's what we're talking about. The whole thing this year is about Jesus stuff. It's about knowing him better. It's about having a closer walk, which is going to help every aspect of your life. I can promise you that. The closer you get to him, the better off your life is going to be.

So that's it. We're out of time. We'll pick it up in John 1 next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click the little bell and choose all notifications to watch every episode.