China's Counter-Tariffs; CEOs Respond to Market Uncertainty; Trump's Deportations
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China's response to President Trump's massive tax on their exports, a tariff of 125 percent on U.S. goods. China's countermeasures go into effect today. I'm Scott Simon. I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and this is Up First from NPR News.

The raging terror war between the U.S. and a key trading partner, China, is escalating. We'll give you the view from China. Also, if you're feeling a little anxious about the economy, you've got something in common with some of America's most powerful CEOs. We'll tell you what's making them nervous. Plus, a look at the Trump administration's efforts to deport foreign nationals who are in the U.S. legally. So please stay with us. We have the news you need to start your weekend.

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The world's two largest economies are in a pitched trade battle. The U.S. and China have ratcheted up their tariffs on each other's exports into dizzying triple digits. And Paris John Rewitz joins us from Beijing. John, thanks for being with us. Happy to be here. How did things get to this point?

Well, it started with those reciprocal tariffs on Liberation Day. Trump imposed tariffs on countries from around the world, of course, and China was hit with a 34% levy. Beijing was less than pleased about it. So two days later, China matched that with a tit for tat 34% tariff on U.S. imports. Trump didn't like that. He added 50% on top of it. China responded with 50%.

Trump added more. China responded. So by the end of the week, the base tariff on Chinese imports into the United States was 145 percent. And U.S. products entering China now get hit with a 125 percent tariff. It was a dizzying upward spiral. And these are crippling numbers.

And a lot of people are certainly wondering, any end in sight? Yeah, there's no end in sight to the acrimony at the moment. But Beijing did something kind of interesting on Friday when they increased tariffs that last time to 125%.

They said they were done playing the tit for tat game. So with tariffs at that rate, they said U.S. products are no longer competitive in China. And if Trump continues to raise tariffs on Chinese goods, it would be a, quote, joke. And China just wouldn't match them. Now, China's not going to roll over. Officials in Beijing said they will continue to protect their rights and interests. So perhaps it's a dual signal, you know, restraint on one hand on the tariffs, but also kind of a don't mess with us signal.

Experts do say there does come a point, you know, when raising tariffs further just doesn't do anything. And these tariffs are already sky high. Victor Gao is with the Beijing-based think tank, the Center for China and Globalization. In my best judgment, it means China-U.S. trade will grind to a complete halt, meaning there will be no more trading between China and the United States. John, is that what you hear from companies and exporters, too?

Well, there's a lot of confusion and caution now. Things have been moving at such a high speed. A few weeks ago, your colleague, Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep was here. He went to a city called Yiwu, which is famous for trading, and talked to a woman there named Nicole Zhang, who sells hairpins and claw clips for the hair. We caught up with her. They were indeed in a state of observation. They talked about some orders in February.

So she's saying that she had an order from February, which she previously told us was for Target. The deposit still hasn't been paid on that. Everybody's just waiting to see what happens. She's putting on a brave face, though. She thinks this whole thing is going to be temporary. Will it be? I mean, do we know where we go from here?

We don't. It's hard to imagine the world's top two economies not doing trade with each other. Trump says he's willing to talk and that China wants to do a deal but hasn't called him. China says it's open to talks, but they have they have to be conducted on the basis of mutual respect.

And so it's unclear where things go from here. It doesn't seem like conditions are right for talks or a breakthrough. Maybe it'll take some economic pain from these terrorists before either side decides they want to get together and have these conversations. And here's John Roach in Beijing. Thanks so much, John. You're welcome, Scott. Thank you.

President Trump's sky-high tariffs on Chinese imports are making many Americans nervous. Might have noticed some people stocking up on things, fearing price hikes are just around the corner. Or maybe like the CEOs of top American companies, you've been watching the convulsing stock market, wondering when things will settle. And our business correspondent Maria Aspin joins us now. Maria, thanks for being with us. Good morning. Please catch us up.

Well, it was, as you noted, a pretty turbulent week as everyone tried to figure out what's going to happen with President Trump's tariffs. By Wednesday, the stock and bond markets were freaking out, to use the technical term. And then Trump abruptly backed down on some of his steepest tariffs, announcing a 90-day pause.

But he did continue escalating a trade war with China. And even with the pause on some tariffs, investors and businesses soon realized that they still have to face new taxes of 10% on almost everything they import. So as all of this was happening, CEOs of the country's biggest companies had to go out and talk about all of it in public on their previously scheduled earnings calls with analysts.

Here's one example of how that went from Wells Fargo CEO Charlie Scharf yesterday. It is a volatile time. It is a time of unknowns. Again, we're trying to be as clear as we can about what we think today. So to quote the late Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, businesses are facing a lot of unknown unknowns. As is everyone right now. How does this ripple through the business world?

Well, first of all, we'll probably just buy less stuff, and that has a direct impact on consumer-facing businesses. Airplane tickets, for example. Scott, if you or I get worried about a recession, we might decide not to buy tickets or to not take that summer vacation. And in fact, that seems to be what's happening. Delta Airlines, for example, it had a great start to 2025. In January, it told investors that this would be its best financial year ever.

But by Wednesday, Delta canceled that forecast. And this is what CEO Ed Bastian told CNBC. We're in uncharted territory.

Unprecedented uncertainty when you look at what's happened and the pivot so quickly to this self-inflicted situation. Now, Bastian said some of that uncertainty is affecting consumers, but Delta also sells a lot of tickets to business travelers. And when businesses don't know what to expect, they also tend to pull back on spending. And those business spending decisions affect us all, don't they? Yeah.

Yeah, in a lot of ways. I mean, some are obvious. When businesses don't want to spend money, they don't hire. They don't open new offices. Maybe they have layoffs. And of course, that's a big deal.

But there are also these more hidden decisions that still trickle down to consumers. For example, if big companies and private investors get worried about the future, they're going to take fewer risks. They'll cut back on investing with startups or lending to small businesses. And if those startups and small businesses can't get money, they can't grow and produce new products and services we all might use.

So these are the sorts of business decisions that can affect consumers and the entire U.S. economy months or years down the line, which means that all of this vague uncertainty can lead to a lot of potential long-term consequences. And there's Murray Aspin. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you so much.

The Trump administration's move to deport immigrants who are in this country legally is getting a lot of legal pushback. This week, the case of Mahmoud Khalil came into focus in a Louisiana courtroom. The pro-Palestinian activist and Columbia University graduate student is being accused of anti-Semitism. This is not the only high-profile case getting attention this week. NPR's Adrian Florido joins us. Adrian, thanks for being with us. Thank you, Scott. What did the judge say?

Well, she said that the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, had the authority to order someone deported based on his determination that that person is a threat to essentially the foreign policy interests of the United States and that she had no authority to challenge that decision.

This is based on a rarely used law enacted during the 1950s Red Scare that allows the Secretary of State to order someone personally deported if that person's presence in the U.S. puts the nation's foreign policy goals at risk. The Trump administration has said that fighting anti-Semitism around the world is one of its goals. So when agents from the Department of Homeland Security came to Rubio with a file on Mahmoud Khalil's activism, Rubio said he determined that his protests were anti-Semitic

And he said if he allowed Khalil to stay in the country, it would send a message that the U.S. tolerates anti-Semitism, which would then undermine its attempt to fight it everywhere else in the world. And that is why he said Khalil had to be deported. And what did Mahmoud Khalil's lawyers say?

Well, that accusation was absurd. In court, they said that Khalil is not anti-Semitic, and they questioned what facts Rubio relied on to decide that his protests were anti-Semitic. But the judge said that the statute is very clear. As long as Rubio makes the determination himself, she cannot question it. What about Khalil's rights to due process and freedom of speech?

Well, those are some of the big questions in this case. The only thing the Secretary of State has to do to kick someone out of the country is to determine that their presence harmed U.S. foreign policy in some, you know, undefined way.

This is one of Khalil's lawyers. Bahar asked me after the ruling yesterday. There's no stopping at Mahmoud Khalil. There's no stopping at just pro-Palestinian protesters. Next, it could be LGBTQI activists under some pretext that that interferes with our foreign relations with Russia, racial justice activists, anyone.

He said it's a very aggressive strategy that if left unchecked could become very dangerous. And that's why he and the rest of the legal team for Mahmoud Khalil are fighting so hard to appeal this decision. If they have to, they're going to go all the way up to the federal court system, through the federal court system, excuse me, to prevent Khalil's deportation. For now, he's still in detention, though, as his lawyers figure out their next steps.

And briefly, Adrian, the Supreme Court ruled on the case of Kilmer Abrego Garcia, who was mistakenly deported to a Salvadoran prison. How does this fit into the question of executive power? Well, legal experts are asking if the government is allowed to get away with something like this, what is to stop it from rounding up other people who, like Abrego Garcia, had legal authorization to be in the U.S. and expelling them without due process? That's why his lawyers are trying so hard to force the government to bring Abrego back.

NPR's Adrian Florido, thanks so much. Thank you, Scott. And that's Up First for Saturday, April 12th, 2025. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Aisha Roscoe. Martin Patience produced this podcast with help from Fernando Naro-Roman and Jordan Marie Smith. Dee Parvaz edited, along with Melissa Gray, Raphael Nam, Vincent Nee,

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