We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
cover of episode Introducing Second Hand Therapy

Introducing Second Hand Therapy

2025/4/15
logo of podcast You Probably Think This Story’s About You

You Probably Think This Story’s About You

Transcript

Shownotes Transcript

True Story Media. I'm really excited today to bring you one of my favorite podcasts. And we all know how I feel about men. So this one might surprise you. I found these guys through Instagram. Some real came across my feed and I was hooked.

Lou and Michael are very funny men that have taken therapy to a whole new level. They sit and they talk about their feelings and they do it in such an honest and self-reflective way that it restores my faith in men a little.

So take a listen and I hope you enjoy this. Go check the rest of their episodes out and follow them on Instagram. I know you're going to love this episode of Secondhand Therapy.

The Ego Power Plus Savings Event is on at Lowe's. Right now, get a free select Ego 56-volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer, blower, or mower kit. That's a $299 value. Plus, shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from Ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power. Only at Lowe's. We help, you save. Offer valid through 416. Selection varies by location. While supplies last.

Wow, this house is cute. But can I really get in the game in this economy? I do have savings and I am responsible-ish. I should bury it. I'm being wild. But what if I'm not being wild though? Could I actually score a... Kick off your home buying journey with Zillow's new buyability tool. It makes it easy to find out what you can afford so you can get off the bench and on to the playing field with confidence. Check your buyability only on Zillow.

The NBA 82 game grind is done. And now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs are here and DraftKings Sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA. Make it a playoff run to remember with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code field goal. That's code field goal for new customers to get $200 in bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the coach,

The crown is yours.

Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome back to another episode of Secondhand Therapy. We need to remind you that we are not therapists. That's right, we are not. We are not experts. Nope. This is not a substitute for therapy, nor is this professional advice of any kind. Absolutely not. I'm also going to say one more thing. Okay.

This episode's coming out on November 4th. Mm-hmm. There's a bit of an election. There's an election. There's an election, so, uh, you know, make sure you go vote, and, uh, make sure you vote the right way, because, you know, the women aren't safe in the world. They're trying to take all the women's rights, and, you know, trans people, we're all people. We're all people. Let's keep everybody safe. Women have rights, too. Let's keep it that way. Oh, my God. Here's an episode of a podcast. Scared. Scared.

If you want to support the pod, we would very much appreciate it. You can do so on Patreon. We have merch available at secondhandtherapypod.com. If you want to contact us, you can do so secondhandtherapypod at gmail.com or...

Shoot us a text. Give us a call. 818-850-2448. It might just end up in a show. It might be on the show. It might be on the show. You can also write us a letter. Oh, God, I love getting mail. P.O. Box 230-595 Las Vegas, Nevada 89105. If you missed any of that, go to our socials. It's in our link tree. Follow us on Instagram.

Add us on Spotify. Get us on YouTube. Support the pod any way you can. We appreciate you so much. Thank you for being here. Love you. Love you. Bye. Hello, my little bear cubs, and welcome back to Secondhand Therapy. And you know that. You seem very uncomfortable. Yeah, I've got daddy issues. Yeah. I knew that. Yeah. 100,000 people knew that. I'm just becoming aware of. You're just starting to look at them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. You want to tell us about it or you want me to go first? You go. Okay. I'm not going to share a ton. Oh, good. Excellent. Great. Not because of that, because I talked a lot about my relationship this week. So a lot of that isn't for the podcast. It's also we walk a weird line of...

therapy being for us and also therapy being for work and it's hard i've honestly thought about getting a second therapist like just a cbt just like a talk therapist yeah for podcast shit so like i can do my personal stuff that i'm actually like working on in therapy therapy and then i can have a second one where like the overflow of stuff i don't mind sharing i can actually unpack over there

That's interesting. Yeah, I have found myself sometimes in therapy already thinking about how I'm going to share that while I'm doing therapy. I have that too. And then I'm like, that's not what therapy is for. Yeah, yeah. It's like I'm so preoccupied with making sure I have something for the pod that it's affecting therapy being for me.

Hey. But also... Relatable. That's what we signed up for. Yeah. Giving the curse, my boy. Vulnerable, stupid fucking idea that we had. Oh, I hate it. So here's what I'll tell you. Relationships are hard. Your turn. Okay. No, but really, my girl's going through some work stuff. And she's been coming home not in a good mood. Yeah. And...

points it at me. Oh no. Yeah. And I have been very intentionally trying to be like, this isn't about me. This is a work thing. But daddy can only do that for so long. You know? Yeah. Before I go, hey, your fucking problem ain't with me. Okay? Be nice to me. I'm the one here supporting you. Please treat me with some sort of love.

And I said that to her. And I said that to her. And I said that to her. So I went into therapy and I was like, you know, my girl been kind of going through it for a couple weeks. She's been going through it and taking that on me and now I'm done taking it. Yeah. And it's been this weird, not weird, it's just been difficult to navigate because I feel like I'm

figuring out so many things with it uh well this here's what's happening in my head when these things happen yeah is i'm my intention is to be supportive and give her the support that she needs a lot of the time she doesn't know what kind of support she needs so i can't

And then emotionally, she's not in a good space, which is not her fault. Like her work situation is pretty shitty and she's trying to get out of it and all that. But then I'm like, I get in, I'm aware that we're in a relationship together and I understand you had a hard day, but you need to be able to set that aside when you get home.

Or if you can't ask for a few minutes or anything like that, because I know the way I'm being treated. People at work aren't being treated that way. I know when your friend calls you, you're not talking to her that way. Yeah. It's all coming to me. And I get it that I'm your closest personal relationship. So you feel the safest with me. You got to set it aside for me too. You got to try. Yeah. Like everybody else gets a nice version of you and I'm catching strays at home. Like I have needs as well.

And I deserve the effort you're putting in with other people. I deserve that effort as well. And I understand you can't give it 100% of the time. Yeah. That's an unrealistic standard. Yeah, so I find myself in a place of trying to be supportive but also making sure that I'm communicating my needs. Yeah. And not setting aside my needs and my value in the way I think I should be treated consistently for the sake of her emotions.

How hard is that for you? For somebody like me, that'd be damn near impossible. Yeah. I don't think I understand where you're at. You're asking me how hard is it to balance? To set those boundaries and to ask for those things that you think that you... Oh, that's not hard at all. It's easier for me not to. Oh, really? It's easier for me to speak up and be like, hey, hey, hey, hey, uh-uh. It's much harder for me to get at a place of like, this isn't about me. Let her get it out. Ask her how she can have support.

because as soon as you come at me wrong, I'm like, oh, well, I didn't do anything. So... Yeah. So, yeah, for me, it's gearing back the boundaries because I've worked so hard on setting boundaries and being treated the way I feel I deserve to be treated and treating people the way I feel they deserve to be treated that I... I don't want to say I forget because I don't because it is in my mind, but then my instinct has become like, oh, no, we're not doing that. Yeah. But...

you got to be softer with your partner. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I don't, I, man, I would find that so hard to, and I have in the past speak up for those needs or boundaries or to speak up for those needs and set those boundaries. So what happens with you in, in situations like that, if your partner is just,

not being nice to you for a while. Because you do have those feelings of like, why am I getting this shit? Yeah. Where do those feelings go? Oh, on the inside. You tuck them way down. You tuck them way down. It's not like punching a pillow. It's not screaming in traffic. Do you notice it coming out at other people? Not other people, but definitely, yeah, screaming in traffic more. Being just more agitated in general. Because I don't...

From where my stance would be is I don't want to add more shit for them. They're already going through so much. I know that they're having a hard time. So who the fuck am I going to be to add on to that? I would never. So guess what? You get to be mean to me for a while. And that makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. I get it. But I'm like, we signed up to be in a relationship. And if this was the other way around, you're just going to sit there. No, you'd be like, hey, hey, hey.

You're my partner. You need to treat me with love and respect. Yeah. On our day. I get it. Yeah. Like that is the difficulty of relationships. How, how is she at receiving those boundaries and, and things? Cause I, again, like sometimes great, sometimes very, very defensive. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I, yeah. Yeah. Her and I are similar in a lot of ways. And, um, yeah, you guys have, you guys are both people pleasers. Um, um,

You two have very different attachment styles. So I think in a romantic relationship, you guys, when it comes to partnerships, are very different. Oh, probably, yeah. Yeah. But when it comes to receiving feedback, both very, number one instinct is defensive, yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But her, typically, she'll get defensive and aggressive.

At the beginning, that would be incendiary. Now, I can be like, I can just be like, it seems like you're getting defensive. Are you feeling attacked? And she can usually be like, yeah, yeah, I'm being fucking defensive. And then I'll just be like, do we need, then she's like, we need to table this for a little bit. Yeah. Table it. Let me come back. She can. I'm going to be honest. I love her too. She's great. She's great. She's great.

Yeah. But yeah, then she can come back around now and be like, yeah, I'm getting defensive. And it's her attachment and her traumas and all that. And then we can kind of wade through it. But what we've, we had a rough couple of weeks of just not being able to get on that same page of communication. And recently she's kind of been like, she kind of, you know, it's like, yeah, you're right. I'm not treating you the way I should be. And yeah,

um, you know, she acknowledged she needed to step it up and be a better partner with, regardless of when things are happening outside. Like she might not be a 10 out of 10, but you have to put in the effort to be the best. Yeah. When she was not being able to do that or not seeing that she wasn't doing that, I guess. Um, what are your feelings when that stuff is happening? Are you, because you do have these, um,

I don't want to say strict boundaries, but these more secured boundaries and more knowledgeable boundaries that you know how you want to be treated in these settings that you, you know, all these things. Is there a time period there where you, you go, okay, I'm going to like, when do you start to say something?

It's not day one. It's not just like, oh, she had a bad day and you're like, hey, you don't fucking treat me that way. It's not. It's like I imagine it builds and there's, you know, there's room for grace and all that stuff. Yeah. When it seems to be like a pattern because a day or two or three can happen. But when it's. Yeah. When it is now more days than not when you're coming home, this is what's happening. Yeah. Like it's raining in like.

I get it. It's hard. Yeah. It's hard, but you got to learn to let some shit set it aside. You have to be able to set it aside. Yeah. Uh, for the bigger, for the better of the bigger picture of your life. Uh, and sometimes it's, I probably say it sooner because I'm, I have emotions as well. And you, you, I do believe it or not. Autism at all. Wow. Test next week. You know what? That's the real election. Yeah.

And you know who I'm voting for. Oh, we're getting 270. Autism. 270. Yeah, but sometimes, yeah, I mean, I'll be short-tempered or I'll feel attacked or I had some shit go on that day and I'm not able to be as, as I say, relationships are hard. It's like two people trying to understand just constant give and take, constant sacrifice, constant compromise. Yeah. And just be constantly be willing to admit that you're wrong.

Or hear that you're wrong. It fucking sucks sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. In this new era that you're in, because you had some time off with dating. Yeah, I took five years off. Yeah. In lieu 2.0, and you have these standards that need to be met or these boundaries, these settings, whatever you want to call them. And this has nothing to do with her. Let's remove her from the situation. Let's just say in a relationship in general. Does lieu 2.0...

have a point of no return or a point of like, that's it. I can't do X, Y, and Z, or I've brought this up so many times, whether it's this or something else or whatever.

Like, what does that look like since you've had the time off and you know what you're looking for? You've kind of honed into, like, these are my needs. This is what I, you know, whatever. These are my non-negotiables, all that kind of stuff that goes into dating in this new way. Yeah, what does that look like for... I don't know. Yeah. I don't have an answer. Because, really, I could only answer that with my partner now because I don't think that is...

the same for every relationship because my partner now has done anything. She is, she has been working on herself since before we were dating. Yeah. And I do see her making the changes she wants to make and evolving and recognize it. Like she is doing those things. So I think for a situation like that, for lack of a better term, the leash is going to be longer. Yeah. Um,

But I'm sure there would be a point of like, oh, we've been talking about this for a year. Yeah. And we're really not making progress. And I feel like this hasn't been a priority. You're saying it's a priority but doesn't seem like a priority. I don't feel the effort from you. I don't know. Something like that maybe. I really don't know. I don't think I have an answer. Yeah. It's hard. I'll tell you one thing that was a light bulb for me in therapy this week. Yeah? So we were...

We were talking about like, you know, she comes home in a bad mood and like, what's the ideal? Oh, I love an ideal. Oh, I know you do. Let's do it. Yeah. So let's say she's in a bad mood. She's it's I'm, I'm catching it. Right. And if I say to her, Hey, you know, you're, you're being a little, a little mean to me. Um, I get you in a bad day. Um, if you need a few minutes, I understand, but I need you to set this aside so we can start our evening. Yeah.

Or something like that. Something like that, right? I say that. She comes back with, you're right. Give me five minutes. Let me decompress. Set this aside. The five minutes is up. We're chilling. She's loving on me. I'm loving on her. We're laughing. All that. If that happens, I don't know that I could accept it. Part of me is afraid that I would push her away and be like, why do I have to ask for this?

Because I just can't accept that, like her being like, you're right. And then nurturing and loving me. That I just don't know how to quite accept that yet. I'm scared. I thought it was something else. I thought that you would be scared that she's pretending to be okay and you couldn't accept it because it's only been five minutes and now she's magically fine. And you'd be like, this is a performance. No.

No, I'm scared. I don't know how to be like, oh, she really like did what I asked. Like she met my needs that I don't know how to like, like authentically and intrinsically accept that. So I would instinctively push her away. Like, why do I have to ask for this? Why do I always, because sometimes you have to ask for your needs to get met.

So, yeah, I was like, that seems like a real possibility that I might just get what I want and push her away because I'm so fucking damaged. I don't know. But it seems like a real possibility. Yeah. Well, how do you react now in these situations when you ask her to put it aside and she does? Oh, well, there's like a whole conversation about she gets defensive as shit. And we have to talk about it. We have to deal with that.

And then we have a little calm down and we get there eventually. I think you like that a little bit. I think you like that a little bit. Yeah, I'm scared of that too. I'm scared you might be right. A little bit of chaos. I fucking, I don't. In the moment, I hate it. In the moment, I hate it. But yeah, let's say, yeah, that doesn't seem impossible to me. Yeah. Why can't I just enjoy the woman I'm spending my life with or I'm sharing my life with? Yeah. Yeah.

Just can't accept the love, and that's...

Hey, it's Britt. I wanted to take a minute to talk about Quince. We all know how much I love my black silk washable skirt. They have lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops, and comfy lounge sets. All Quince items are priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with Top Factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us.

One of my favorite things is that they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to quince.com slash brit for 365-day returns plus free shipping on your next order.

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash B-R-I-T to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Brit. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Brit. I wanted to take a minute to talk to you about the importance of therapy. It can feel like a big investment, but the state of your mind is just as important as your physical health.

Traditional in-person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session. That adds up fast.

But with BetterHelp Online Therapy, you can save, on average, up to 50% per session. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With Online Therapy, you can get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your well-being is worth it. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Probably Think Today to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash probably think. Did you know that April is Financial Literacy Month? They made a whole month reminding you to finally take control of your money. The good news is that you don't need 30 days. Acorns makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future in just five minutes. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. Get started with the spare money you have right now.

right now. I've had all my kids sign up so that they can take any of their extra money and save it, but also give them a way to learn about investing. Sign up now and join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com slash you probably or download the Acorns app to get started. Pay

Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier 2 compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash you probably. Yeah. Granted, none of this happened. I'm just saying I'm scared it could end. It seems realistic. I'm scared of the idea of Acorns.

But, yeah. I also don't want the idea. Yeah. I don't fucking know, man. Yeah. All right. What did you talk about? I don't want to talk. I'm done with this shit. Oh. I said too much already. It's all getting cut. Oh, God. Yeah, it's just going to be jump cuts. Yeah. Like, I was in therapy this week. We talked about my girlfriend. Anyways, what did you do? Anyways, what did you do? I love her, too. Me, too. She's great. She's great. Oh, man. Oh, man.

I don't know. I don't want to share, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a big day. Yeah. Big feelings today. I haven't had therapy in two weeks, which feels like a lifetime. Two weeks is a long, long break. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't like that. Yeah. So I had a lot of emotions to catch up on.

And you and I have had some just big talks, not on the podcast, just in life here at the house. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's been... Side note. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, yeah. When we get in those conversations, does it ever enter your mind? All the people in emails and comments are like, I just want to hang out with you guys. No, you don't. No, you don't.

You don't know half the shit. We are constantly looking inward and examining each other.

And it is exhausting. You do not want to hang out with us. No. I promise you don't want to hang out with us. It's too much therapy. It is unreal. We got a live show if you're in Los Angeles. If you want to hang out with us. If you really do want to experience it. December 19th, come on out to the Lyric Hyperion. We got a live show. Yeah, I tell you what, if you really want the true experience, come to the house about an hour before the show. Yeah. That'll be the real. Yeah. That's the real show. We should record that. Yeah. Just.

Just set up a camera of you and I fucking... Just us loading up these chairs. Just anger panic. Fuck. I gave you a nice out, but it's over. What did you talk about? God damn it. Well, we're out of time. So maybe next week we'll talk about it. Oh, God. Okay. So you and I had a conversation yesterday. And I...

Because we were like... I honestly, I don't remember what it was about. Okay, good. We don't have to talk about it. So anyway, so... Refresh me. How was pickleball? Refresh me. I played out of my mind today. Oh, buddy. I was dominating. It was a good one. So...

We were kind of like talking about some of the comments and this and that on the latest videos about from the other show, the other shit show. Fucking idiots in the comments. Clips have been been real conversation starters in the comments about, you know, judgment and toast and things like this.

Why would you ask him about toast? I didn't. It's a hypothetical. It's a literal hypothetical. What if I criticized toast? Why would you mention toast? I didn't, bitch. You're so mean to him. Why let him make his toast? Pay attention. It's not about the toast. Oh my God. So we were talking about that and there was something that I mentioned to you that I said that I wish, oftentimes this happens, I wish that...

you know, I would have, I would have said this or I would have responded this way or whatever. And one of those things in that episode was you kept asking me why I care. Why do you care? Why does that bother you? Why do you care? And I was really trying to think about that. And I don't, it doesn't weigh as much with strangers or whatever, but with somebody like you, it matters to me, your perception of me because I care about you because I love you.

And so I want, I want you to feel that way about me or see me in the ways that I think that I am. And if you are thinking poorly of me or negatively or any of those things, it turns out what we discovered in our conversation was that it, uh, it has less to do with

people pleasing and all that and more to do with abandonment issues. And, uh, what we came around to was, uh, that if you, if you don't, if I'm not good enough, uh, you will leave. And, uh, Hey, I don't want that. And, uh, I have, you know, I shared with you that like, and my therapist this morning, cause this is how our therapy started was talking about that conversation. Um,

People, when they hang out with me short term or at an arm's distance or whatever, man, I'm great. Man, I'm just the best. That Michael Malone, he's fucking great.

It's the people that spend a lot of time with me or really get to know me on a personal level. And you and I spend a lot of, all of our time together. We live together. We do this together. We unpack a lot together. You see every side of me. Yeah. I hate you. Yeah. Shut up. And if I am too much, then you go bye-bye.

And I think you can relate to this because you shared that in an episode months ago about your old therapist, about sharing too much or being too much and that she wouldn't want to see you anymore because it was this or that. Yeah, afraid to be judged. Yeah, and that's kind of how I feel is if, yeah, if I'm really me in all of my fucking messiness, then you're not going to mind anything to do with me. Not only you, but like, you know, any...

Anyone. And, hey, man, I can't have that. Why not? Because I don't want to be alone. Yeah? Yeah. So who gets to decide what's too much? Me or what you perceive as too much? You. Right. Yeah. You think I'm going to decide that and not tell you or something? Or you just don't want me to decide that? What's the fear? That you're going to decide that and leave. And not say anything? Just be like, oh, this fucking guy. No, I think...

It doesn't matter if we have a discussion or not. The ending result is being left. Do you think that's why you keep people around longer than they should? Just in case? So you'll never be alone? I don't know. I don't know what that's about. Honestly. Yeah, you struggle to say goodbye to people. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I work really hard at being accepted. And then it's kind of like that thing you get into and

right? When you're, you know, it's not, you know, neither one of you are having a good time anymore, but you're like, ah, we put all this effort and time into this. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, but everybody on the outside is like, you got to get the fuck out of there to both of you. You know what I mean? But you're like, yeah, but we've been together. And he's like, hey, that doesn't count. Yeah. That doesn't mean anything. It's weird when people are like,

you've already lost that time. You want to lose more? Yeah. Yeah, that's a weird thing. That makes sense. But when you're in it, you're in it. That's the fucking weird thing about relationships is everybody else can see it and then months later you're like, oh yeah, what the fuck was I doing? And we tried to tell you. Many of us had had sit-downs with you. So that's how therapy started today was talking about abandonment. And that was something that

I didn't know was at the root of a lot of my people pleasing or acceptance or whatever. So he asked me, he said, can you think about a time in your life when you were neglected or abused? And I don't feel like I fit into those categories at any stage in my life. Because I feel like those are...

Maybe I'm not thinking of it as emotional or whatever. Because I think of those things as pretty hardcore situations, like neglect and abuse. I never felt any of that. So I shared with him that I was like, yeah, I told him just that. And then I said, but growing up, I dealt with acceptance a lot because I was a bigger kid and younger.

you know, the girls didn't want anything to do with me. I wasn't attractive enough for them. I was a great friend. I was a good friend, but I was not attractive enough to date to actually be their boyfriend. And the guys didn't want anything to do with me because I could give a fuck about sports. I could really give a fuck about playing sports or watching it or whatever. So they had no use for me. And so acceptance was really hard. And I had a lot of

I had a lot of people take advantage of me when I was young because I was a spoiled only child. So I had the latest and greatest. And so kids would come to my house and they'd fucking wreck it or they'd come over to the house and they'd borrow things or they'd break things. And that was just that. And I never spoke up and I never got mad at them or held them accountable or any of those things that... Why not?

I know we talked about this before, but I don't remember. Yeah, because then they go bye-bye. Oh, okay. Then they don't like me. This is what they're here for. This is, you know what I mean? Like, hey, man. And you were okay with that? I felt like I had to be. Because what else do I have to offer? I have nothing to offer. Just a big tummy and a sense of humor. Exactly. Yeah. And so we talked a lot about

that validation and acceptance that goes with that. And then also the, this idea of again, like feeling like people are trying to embarrass me. And then we got around, you know, it was almost like a throwaway. I was like, yeah. And then, you know, as far as like home life goes, I was like, yeah, my dad really wasn't around a whole lot. And man, he went to that like fucking blood in the water, dude. And he was like, your father? I was like, yeah.

Because I keep forgetting that he's new. So he doesn't really understand all the dynamics and the background and all that stuff. So I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, my dad really wasn't around. He was like, let's talk about that. I was like, okay. Fucking stupid. Okay, yeah. Didn't even deflect it or anything. Just blindly just... You know, my mom's dead. Let's talk about mom. Have I told you about mom yet? So we started talking about dad.

And I know I've shared some of this before, but this all leads to this new revelation. And so he was asking a few questions about that and this and that. And then he goes, okay, let's role play a little bit. And I've never done that in therapy. It's the fucking worst. I had to talk to a pillow. Yeah. Luckily. Let's pretend she's sitting here. God.

I was so afraid he was going to be like, let's pretend that I'm your father. And I was like, no, no, no, no. The internet, it's gone. I don't know. The computer is broke. I punch it. So you come home, the house is burned down. What happened? Well, he tried to be my dad. Oh, I get it. So I said, I said, okay, yeah, let's role play. Mm-hmm.

And he goes, I'm going to share some things about my father as an example, and then I want you to share in the same way. And I said, oh, okay. I was like, thank God. So he said... Also, not role-playing. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, it was weird. And so he said, my father... I was raised by a man who X, Y, and Z. And then it was my turn.

And I shared, you know, I said that I was raised by a man who I truly believe wanted to be better. He just wanted to do better and be better and couldn't figure out. I was raised by a man who really loved children and was there for them when they were little and kids. I don't think he knew what to do with them when they got older.

That seems, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, that seems to be a thing about men. Men love babies, but don't love children. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't know if he knew how to interact or... And I also don't know because he had such, from what I hear, a good relationship with his other children. It's because he loved them more. Yeah. I'm kidding. No, I got a very different version of my father. Yeah. Um...

Which is where this next part comes in. Well, one before that. I was raised by a man who I don't think knew what partnership and love really was. I was raised by a man who got caught up in addiction and could not find his way out. And it's taken me years to have empathy for that and realize that that was not his fault, the way he got into that relationship.

Empathy or sympathy? Empathy. I'm noticing my hands right now because he fucking, even in therapy, dude, I was crushing my hands. And he goes, let's sit with this for a minute. He goes, where do you feel this in your body? And I was like, my fucking hands. And I was just like grinding them. And he's like, okay. He's like, let's just sit with this. And we did that. That was no fun. And then he goes, okay.

We're going to do this again, only we're going to change it a little bit. We're going to change the wording to because I was raised by a man who X, Y, and Z. He shared. It was my turn. Oh, buddy. It was because I was raised by a man who always wanted to be better and do better. I don't know when things are good enough.

I don't know when the good times are because it's not good enough. It's never good enough. I can never be satisfied and just take it in because there's so much more work to do because wherever we are, it's not where we're supposed to be. There's more work to be done. It's just not enough. I was raised by a man who, or because I was raised by a man who didn't really know what true love and partnership look like.

was exposed to that at an early age and I like the chase. I like the idealism. I like the... I like playing house. I don't like actually... I don't know how to show up in long-term love. Yeah. Because I was raised by a man who had addiction problems and couldn't find his way out. I'm terrified to try new things, to enjoy myself, to...

Do even the smallest, you know, things of like, let's have a shot. Let's do a little, everybody's doing mushrooms. Everybody's micro dosing, buddy. Can't do it. I don't know what that looks like for me. When I started now, granted, there was some shit going on in my life, but when I started smoking weed, it was in my late, my early thirties and it became my identity. I remember that. Swallowed me. Yeah. Scary.

You still smoke weed. Here and there. Yeah, but you're not afraid of it anymore, are you? No, but what happens if I try something else and I like it that's harder than weed? Weed's pretty, weed's some fucking training wheels, you know what I mean? Well, let's be honest. Whatever you try, you're going to like it. That's what drugs are. They're great. Yeah. Yeah, you just don't do it all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if I have that idea. I'm like, yeah, just don't do it all the time. Yeah, I don't know if I have that switch, man. That's the fear. Yeah, you don't have that. Yeah. No, your problem's food. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, because you can have whiskey and not get a hug. You can have weed and not get a hug. Yeah. I think that's your mom talking. Yeah. But I'm open to being wrong. Sorry to interrupt you. Please continue. No, yeah, it's just, there's all these revelations happening everywhere.

And then it came down to this idea of, and I never made this connection with abandonment issues, because I was raised by a man who was absent for most of my life, who chose his friends, his other children, everything else but me, it felt like. If my own father didn't want anything to do with me, why would anybody else? I don't understand why your mom doesn't fall into that.

Your mom wanted everything to do with you. Yeah, because it was, that's too easy. That was just, she smothered me with it. It was just, it was way too easy. I didn't have to earn that. Uh-huh. Yeah. And you're not supposed to have to earn your parents' love. Oops. You have to earn love. No, you don't. How do you get it? It's given to you. By people who think you deserve it because you earned it from them. Where'd you learn that?

That's just how life is, right? No. You don't think love is earned? No. How do you get it? People give it to you. But how? They want to. What do you do? They just... You form a connection. They want to. If you have to earn somebody's love, it's not love. That's a debt. Yeah. You really do love the Jace, huh? Sure do. At this point, I thought I would fill in my therapist with a little background on who my father was. Mm-hmm.

And so we did that dance. And at this point, I'm bawling my eyes out. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, just abusing my hands and just crying. Yeah. And I've mentioned this before, but I don't know how much we got into it, but it's just this idea of like, I just want to help my dad figure it out. I know that's not my place. I know that I was too young. I know that he's been dead since...

I was a kid. I know that it's an impossible thing, but I know that he wanted to be better and I know that he wanted to get out of that town and he couldn't figure it out. And I did. And I just want to help him. I just want to help him. Why? Because he deserves it. And that's love. And we know that.