EP12:Deep Into - Atomic Habits
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Hey, everyone, and welcome back for another deep dive. Today, we're cracking open James Clear's Atomic Habits. Ah, yeah. Atomic Habits. This one came out back in 2018, right? Right. October 16th, to be exact. Yeah. Published by Penguin.

I feel like this book has been everywhere, though. It really has. And for good reason. I mean, it's packed with insights on how to build those good habits and ditch the bad ones. But it goes deeper than just surface level tips and tricks. Exactly. And I love that. So for this deep dive, we really want to get to those key takeaways that can help people make real and lasting change.

in their lives. No more fleeting New Year's resolutions, you know? Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that makes Clear's approach so appealing, I think, is that it's not about these like massive overnight transformations. It's the small stuff. Yeah, he focuses on the power of tiny changes, like those 1% improvements that you make consistently over time. And compound interest, right? Exactly, compound interest. Small changes that build up over time, leading to huge growth.

I love how he starts the book with his own story, though. I mean, who kicks off a self-help book by talking about getting smacked in the face of the baseball bat? Well, it's definitely a way to grab your attention. Right. And I think it really sets the stage for his whole message. Like here's this young athlete on the path to achieving his dreams. And then, boom, a freak accident throws everything off course.

He's forced to rebuild his life literally piece by piece. And he does it through these tiny habits. Organizing his room, sticking to a sleep schedule. Stuff that on its own wouldn't seem that life-changing. Yeah, but by his senior year, he'd become captain of his college baseball team. He was an all-conference player and even the top male athlete at his school. Talk about a comeback. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a pretty powerful testament to the idea that those small, seemingly insignificant actions, when you do them consistently, they really can lead to remarkable results. Like, OK, so we don't need to completely overhaul our entire lives overnight. We can start small. Baby steps. Yeah.

And those tiny actions he calls those atomic habits, right? Exactly. And it's not just about personal growth either. He talks about British cycling. They use this concept of aggregation of marginal gains where they basically just focused on making 1% improvements in every single aspect of their training and performance. So like their bikes, their nutrition, their sleep schedules, everything. Everything. And the results were amazing. Olympic dominance, Tour de France and dominance.

It's crazy how those tiny gains can add up to such massive victories. It is. But most of us aren't trying to win the Tour de France. We're just trying to get to the gym more often. Right. Or finally write that book we've been thinking about. And those results, they can feel so slow. Yeah.

Which is super demotivating. Totally. And that's what Clear calls the plateau of latent potential. You know that feeling where you're putting in the work, but you don't see those big changes right away. Yes. It's like, is this even working? Exactly. It can be super frustrating. But he compares it to planting a seed. Like, you don't see that sprout immediately, but underneath the surface, things are happening. Growth is happening. Yeah. So stick with it. Those small changes are working, even if you can't see the results yet. You just got to be patient. Patience is key. Mm-hmm.

But how do we make that shift from like just doing something to actually becoming the type of person who embodies those habits? You know what I mean? That's such a good question. And this is where things get really interesting. So Clear talks about the importance of an identity shift.

It's not about just going for a run. It's about seeing yourself as a runner. It's not about forcing yourself to eat a salad. It's about seeing yourself as the kind of person who prioritizes healthy eating. So it's more about who you are, not just what you do. Exactly. He gives this classic example of quitting smoking. Like if you tell yourself, I'm trying to quit.

you're still identifying yourself as a smoker who's struggling with a bad habit. Right. You're still a smoker in that case. Yeah. But if you say, I'm not a smoker, then boom, you've already made that mental shift. It's like a simple change in language, but it's so powerful. It really is. There's another example he gives that I love. It's about Brian Clark, this entrepreneur who stopped biting his nails.

It all started when he got a manicure. Like that simple act of taking care of his nails, it made him start to see himself as someone who didn't bite their nails. Interesting. So it's about these small actions that...

kind of trigger a bigger shift in how we see ourselves. Exactly. Think of it like this. Every time you perform a habit, you're basically casting a vote for the type of person you want to become. Okay. I like that. Like every time I hit the gym, I'm casting a vote for gym person. Exactly. And all those votes, they add up over time. They shape your self-image. Okay. I'm starting to get this. So we're making these small changes. We're shifting our identity. But like

How do those habits actually form in the first place? Didn't Clear talk about something called a habit loop? He did. The habit loop is this four-step process that explains how our behaviors become automatic. So imagine this. It's Monday morning. Your alarm goes off. That's the cue, the trigger. And suddenly you're like, I need coffee now. Right. So that's the second step, the craving. You crave the coffee. Then comes the response. You actually get out of bed, stumble to the kitchen, brew that coffee.

And finally, you get that delicious first sip. That's the reward. And that reward, it reinforces the entire loop. It's like a little reward system in our brains. No wonder those morning routines become so automatic. Like, you don't even think about it. You just do it. Right. And, you know, he mentions those experiments with cats in Puzzle Box's Thorndyke's Cats. I think I vaguely remember that from, like,

Psych 101. So the cats, at first, they're clueless about how to get out of the box, but through trial and error, they learn that pressing a lever equals escape and a tasty treat. And eventually they just press the lever. Like,

Like it's automatic. Exactly. Because the reward reinforces the behavior. So lever pressing becomes a habit. So our brains are only looking for those rewards, those solutions to problems. Right. And habits are just automated solutions that we've developed over time through repetition. Interesting. So how do we use this whole habit loop thing to build good habits? Well, that's where Clear's four laws of behavior change come in. So he says to make a good habit stick...

You got to make it obvious, make it attractive, make it easy and make it satisfying. So, OK, make it obvious, like laying out your workout clothes the night before so you're not scrambling in the morning. Exactly. Or, you know, finding a gym buddy that makes it attractive or joining a fitness class that you actually enjoy.

What about making it easy? Any ideas there? Starting small. Instead of trying to do a full hour workout, just commit to 15 minutes. Perfect. And how about making it satisfying? Celebrating those small wins. Maybe like a small treat or just that feeling of accomplishment. You got it.

And the cool thing is these laws can also be inverted to break bad habits, too. So make those bad habits invisible. Make them unattractive. Make them difficult and unsatisfying. I like that. So it's about understanding how the habit loop works and then like manipulating it to work for us. This is great. So we're starting small. We're shifting our identity. We're hacking the habit loop.

But what about those times when, like, we're totally on autopilot? You know, we're just going through the motions, not even thinking about what we're doing. That's a crucial point. And it leads us to the importance of awareness.

Claire uses this story about a paramedic who saved her father-in-law's life. And she did it because she just had this gut feeling that something was wrong, even though she couldn't really pinpoint why. Wow. A gut feeling. Yeah. But it was years of experience that had basically trained her brain to recognize those subtle cues that something was off. It's crazy how powerful our subconscious minds can be. Right.

It shows how our brains are constantly making predictions based on patterns and experiences, and then it automates behaviors to keep us efficient.

But that can backfire, right? Like if we're not careful, those automatic behaviors can lead to mistakes. Absolutely. Remember that story about the retail clerk who accidentally cut up a customer's credit card because he was so used to cutting up those rewards cards? Oh, yeah. I remember that one. Just pure autopilot mode. Right. So how do we bring those unconscious habits into conscious awareness? Well, Clear suggests using something called a habit scorecard. Ah.

A habit scorecard. What's that? It's basically like mapping out your daily routines step by step and then honestly asking yourself, is this habit helping me or hurting me? So you're like holding up a mirror to your day. Yeah. And it helps you see those habits that you might not even realize you're doing. And then he mentions this other technique called pointing and calling, which they actually use in the Japanese railway system. Wait, so like.

I should be pointing at my toothbrush and saying brushing my teeth out loud. Huh. Well, maybe not everything, but try it with those unconscious habits you want to break. Like if you find yourself reaching for your phone when you should be working, point at it and say, I'm reaching for my phone, but I need to finish this report.

It sounds a little silly, but I guess it would force you to be more mindful. Exactly. It interrupts that automatic response. So we're starting small, shifting our identity, hacking the habit loop, and now we're bringing those unconscious habits into the spotlight. What about those times when you just can't seem to resist temptation? How do we make those good habits more appealing than the bad ones? Ah.

Ah, that's where we get to making habits irresistible. And that's where Clear brings in those herring gulls. Herring gulls. OK, I'm intrigued. Tell me more about these birds. So baby herring gulls, right. They instinctively peck at that red dot on their parents' beaks to get food. It's instinct. OK, yeah, I've seen that.

But what's fascinating is that researchers found that when they showed these chicks a fake beak with an exaggerated red dot, like a bigger, brighter red dot, the chicks went crazy. They pecked even more intensely. They were just drawn to that amplified version of reality. It's like those supersized fries that are hard to resist. So what does this have to do with us and our habits? Well, Clear argues that our modern world is filled with these supernormal stimuli like junk food, socialization.

Social media, video games, they're all designed to hijack our reward systems. They're like those exaggerated red dots, those amplified versions of things that we naturally crave. Exactly. And those cravings, they're fueled by dopamine.

And dopamine isn't just released when we experience pleasure. It's released in anticipation of it. So like even just thinking about that juicy burger or scrolling through Instagram, it releases dopamine, making us crave it even more. That's so interesting. So it's not just about willpower. It's about our brains responding to these cues in our environment. Right.

And that's why something like temptation bundling can be so effective. It's where you link something you need to do, like exercise, with something you want to do, like watching your favorite show. I love that. It's like tricking your brain into craving the healthy habit. Exactly. Like remember that guy who hacked his stationary bike to only play Netflix if he was pedaling at a certain speed? He's bundling exercise.

exercise with entertainment, making it irresistible. That's brilliant. Okay, so we can use this to our advantage. Absolutely. So think about how you can incorporate temptation bundling into your own life. I'm already brainstorming. This is great. So we can make habits obvious, attractive, easy, and now we're making them irresistible.

But what about the influence of like our friends and family and the people we surround ourselves with? Doesn't that play a role, too? It plays a huge role. And Kliera talks about this in detail. He uses this fascinating story about the Polgar sisters, these three Hungarian chess prodigies, as an example. They were raised by their father and he basically decided he was going to raise them to be chess champions. Wow. And it worked. It did.

All three sisters became incredibly successful chess players. But it wasn't just about like their natural talent. They learned to love the game because it was such a central part of their lives, their environment. So it's like our surroundings shape our behaviors. Exactly. And we're wired to fit in like we want to belong. And that influences our actions. Makes sense. He calls this the social gravity of those around us. And he cites all these studies showing how like.

Weight loss often mirrors in relationships. If one person loses weight, their partner is more likely to lose weight too. Wow. So our habits are actually contagious. It seems that way. He also talks about how obesity rates increase among friends. So if we want to build good habits, it's important to surround ourselves with people who already have those habits. Absolutely. Find that tribe, that supportive community that aligns with your goals. It can make a huge difference. Okay, so finding our tribe is key.

But it sounds like the opposite is true, too, right? Like if we're surrounded by people with bad habits, it's harder to break those patterns. Right. And remember those classic conformity experiments that Clear mentions, the Ash conformity experiments? Yeah, I think so. Remind me. They showed just how powerful social pressure can be.

They had people look at lines of different lengths and say which one was the longest. But the thing was, everyone in the group except one person was instructed to give the wrong answer. And people went along with it. A lot of them did. They literally chose the wrong answer, even though they knew it was wrong, just because everyone else was doing it. That's wild. It makes you think about all the ways we might be conforming without even realizing it.

So, okay, we're shaping our environment, finding our tribe, and we're becoming aware of those moments when we're on autopilot.

But what about when you just, like, can't get started? Procrastination is real. Oh, I hear you. And Clear offers some practical advice for this. He calls it the two-minute rule. It's all about scaling down that habit to the smallest possible action. So instead of aiming to run five miles, you just focus on putting on your running shoes. Exactly. It's about mastering the art of showing up. Like, just take that first step no matter how small. I remember that example he gives about Twyla Tharp, the famous choreographer.

Her trigger habit isn't that two-hour dance workout. It's simply hailing a cab to the gym. Once she's in that cab, the rest of the routine kind of falls into place. It's brilliant, right? By focusing on that tiny initial action, you overcome that resistance and get yourself moving in the right direction. It's like those entrance ramps to a highway that Clear talks about.

That small two-minute habit triggers a cascade of subsequent actions. Yeah. It's about recognizing those decisive moments, those tiny choices that can set you on a totally different course. So we're mastering that starting point. What happens next?

How do we build on those small wins? Well, that's where habit shaping comes in. It's about gradually scaling up those habits over time. Like if you want to become a morning person, you don't just set your alarm for 5 a.m. tomorrow. You go to bed a little earlier each night, you know. Right. You gradually shift your sleep schedule. Baby steps. Exactly. It's a process of gradual adaptation. Small changes that build on each other until the new behavior becomes like normal. It's like training for a marathon.

You don't just start by running 26 miles. You got to build up to it. OK, so we've covered a lot in this deep dive into atomic habits already. But I'm curious to hear more about how we can actually design our lives

to like support these good habits to make them almost inevitable? Yeah, that's a great question and a perfect transition to the next part of the book where Clear talks all about designing your environment. So yeah, Clear talks all about this idea of designing your environment. It's like, how do you make those good habits inevitable and the bad ones like nearly impossible? I love that. And he starts off with a pretty extreme example, right? Victor Hugo, the guy who wrote

The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Yeah. So Hugo, he was struggling to meet a deadline for his book. And what did he do? He locked away all of his clothes. All of his clothes. Like he couldn't even leave the house. Exactly. He literally forced himself to stay home and write. OK, that might be a little extreme for most of us, but it definitely makes the point. Right. It highlights the power of what Clear calls commitment devices.

these choices that you make in the present to kind of control your future behavior. Like setting yourself up for success in advance. Exactly. And it doesn't have to be as drastic as locking up your wardrobe. It could be something as simple as like using an outlet timer for your Wi-Fi. Oh, so you're not tempted to scroll late into the night? Exactly. Or maybe like

Meal prepping on Sundays so you're less likely to order takeout during the week. I like those. Those are good. What about the opposites? Like how do you add friction to those bad habits you're trying to break? Yeah. So for bad habits, you want to make them harder to do. Unsubscribe from those tempting email lists.

delete those social media apps or move that bag of chips to the back of the pantry where you're less likely to see it. Out of sight, out of mind. Right. So it's like you're making those good choices the easy choices. Clear also gives this great example of John Henry Patterson. He was the guy who founded the National Cash Register Company. OK, cash registers. What about them? So Patterson, he was having a problem with employee theft. But instead of trying to like

change his employees morals or whatever, he redesigned the system. How did he do that? He created the cash register. It automatically tracked every transaction so there was no opportunity for like skimming money off the top. Wow. So he basically designed temptation out of the equation. Exactly. It's a brilliant example of how changing the environment can have a huge impact on behavior. I like that. So we're setting ourselves up for success by making good habits easy and bad habits difficult.

But what about tracking our progress? How important is that? Tracking is crucial. Clear says that making progress visible is incredibly motivating. And he tells this great story about Trent Duesman, a stockbroker who used this simple

but super effective strategy. He called it the paperclip strategy. Wait, the paperclip strategy? I've heard of that. It's like moving paperclips from one jar to another, right? Got it. Dersmid, he would start each day with two jars. One was filled with 120 paperclips and the other was empty. And every time he made a sales call, he'd move a paperclip from the full jar to the empty jar.

His goal was to empty that first jar by the end of the day. So he could literally see his progress. Exactly. It's such a simple visual reminder, but it kept him motivated. And get this, within 18 months, he was bringing in millions of dollars for his firm. Wow, that's incredible. I've also heard of

like habit trackers, but I've never really had much luck with them. Yeah. Habit trackers can be really helpful, but I think the key is to keep them simple and to use them strategically. Like the act of physically marking an X on a calendar or in an app, it kind of taps into your brain's reward system. Like some visual representation of your progress. Exactly. And it helps you build that momentum. Remember Jerry Seinfeld's don't break the chain method? I think I've heard of that. What's that?

So he would write jokes every single day, no matter what, just to keep that streak of X's on his calendar going. Oh, that's a good one.

But I feel like sometimes tracking can feel like just another thing to do, you know, like another chore. Totally. That's why it's helpful to automate it whenever possible. You know, use apps or wearables that track your steps or your workouts automatically. Right. Make it easy on yourself. Exactly. And Clear also talks about the importance of not letting setbacks completely derail you. He has this rule, the never miss twice rule.

Like, we're all human. We're going to slip up sometime. Right. It happens. The key is to get back on track as quickly as possible. Don't beat yourself up about it. Exactly. Missing once is an accident. Missing twice is the start of a new habit and not a good one. So be kind to yourself, but also, like, stay consistent. Absolutely.

And on the topic of support, Clear also talks about the importance of accountability. Ah, yes. Accountability. He says having someone to answer to can be incredibly powerful. He dedicates a whole chapter to the idea of accountability partners and habit contracts. Oh, yeah. I love the story he tells about Brian Harris.

He created this whole haddock contract with his wife and his trainer where he outlined his goals and the consequences if he didn't meet them. Right. Like if he didn't work out, he had to dress up for work every day, even if he was working from home. Or he had to pay his trainer money if he didn't log his food intake. Wow. Those are some serious consequences. Yeah. But it's about making those bad habits less appealing by adding that layer of immediate consequence. It's like having a workout buddy who's waiting for you at the gym. Yeah.

You're less likely to skip if you know someone's counting on you. Exactly. So yeah, accountability can be a game changer. Okay, so we've talked about making habits obvious, attractive, easy, and designing our environment for success. We've covered tracking progress and the importance of accountability. But it's not just about any habit, right?

Clear also emphasizes the importance of finding those habits that really align with our like natural talents and inclinations. Absolutely. He brings up these two incredibly successful athletes, Michael Phelps and Hicham El-Gharou to illustrate this point.

Phelps, with his long torso and short legs, he was basically built for swimming. And Elgarouge, with his lean build and long legs, was perfectly suited for middle distance running. Both achieved incredible things, but in different fields. It's like trying to force yourself into a mold that doesn't fit. It's just going to be an uphill battle. Right.

Clear argues that working with your natural predispositions, those talents and tendencies you're already kind of wired for, is going to lead to greater success and enjoyment. Like play to your strengths. Exactly. He also uses the example of Scott Adams, the guy who created the Dilbert comic strip.

Adams wasn't necessarily the best artist or the funniest writer, but he combined his unique skills and interests to create something truly special. It's about finding that sweet spot where your talents and interests kind of intersect. Exactly. And that sweet spot can also apply to like the level of challenge we take on.

Clear introduces this concept of the Goldilocks rule for motivation. Okay, the Goldilocks rule. I'm really intrigued. It basically suggests that we're most motivated and engaged when we're working on tasks that are just slightly beyond our current abilities. So not too easy, not too hard. Yeah. Right, like Goldilocks and the porridge. You got it.

Clear gives the example of comedian Steve Martin, who spent over 15 years refining his stand-up routine. He was constantly experimenting, challenging himself, but always looking for that sweet spot of difficulty that kept him engaged and motivated. So it's about finding that balance, that flow state where you're challenged but not overwhelmed, where you're pushing yourself but not burning out. Exactly. And, you know, it's important to remember that even good habits can have a downside if we're not careful.

Oh, interesting. What do you mean? Well, habits are great for automating behaviors, but they can also lead to complacency. Like you start performing on autopilot, not paying attention to those little errors that might creep in. Like those basketball players Claire talks about, right? Yeah.

Even after they've mastered the basic skills, they still need to deliberately practice new techniques and refine their skills. They can't just rely on those ingrained habits. Exactly. That's where deliberate practice comes in. It's about actively seeking out those challenges, focusing on areas where you need to improve, and constantly trying to get better, even when you've already achieved a certain level of mastery. So it's not enough to just build those good habits. We also need to stay mindful, stay engaged, and

and continue to challenge ourselves to grow. Didn't Clear also talk about the importance of like reflection and review? He did. He emphasizes this idea of stepping back and evaluating your performance, looking for those areas where you can improve.

He talks about Pat Riley, this legendary basketball coach who implemented a system called career best effort. Career best effort. What's that? It was basically a system where the players tracked every single aspect of their performance and aim to improve by one percent each game. Wow. So even those elite athletes are constantly looking for ways to get better.

It's a great reminder that there's always room for growth, no matter how successful or talented you are. So we're building those good habits, but we're also staying mindful, staying engaged and continuing to challenge ourselves to grow. Exactly. It's about recognizing that even the most successful people rely on habits to achieve their goals.

But it's not just about blindly repeating those habits. It's about refining them, adapting them, and constantly seeking ways to get better. So we've covered so much ground in this deep dive into atomic habits. But before we wrap up, I'm curious, what's one thing that really stuck with you? You know, for me, it's really that focus on designing your environment for success. It's such a simple concept, but it's so powerful. By making those small tweaks to our surroundings, we can make it so much easier to stick to our goals.

It's not about willpower. It's about creating a world where good habits are just the path of least resistance. Totally agree. It's about removing those obstacles and like setting yourself up for success. What about you? What's one takeaway you'd like to leave our listeners with? For me, I think it's the whole idea of habit shaping. It's so encouraging to know that you don't have to make these huge changes all at once, you know.

you can start small, baby steps, and gradually you can transform those behaviors into something that's actually sustainable. That's a really good one. And it actually makes me think of the two-minute rule. Like, that can be applied to so many areas of life. Instead of feeling overwhelmed by a huge task, just focus on taking that tiny first step. Right. Just get started. It's like that saying, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Exactly.

Speaking of journeys, Clear ends the book talking about the importance of finding your own like talent sweet spot. Oh, yeah. He argues that our genes actually influence our talents and that if we work with our natural inclinations rather than against them, it'll lead to greater success. Yeah. It makes you think about those people who just seem to like

effortlessly excel in certain areas you know they've probably found those activities that align with their natural strengths and passions like michael phelps in the pool yeah hitchum el garouge on the track like their bodies were built for those specific sports but it's not just about physical talents right it applies to personality traits too like if you're naturally introverted trying to force yourself to come like

a super social butterfly is probably not going to be sustainable. So it's about knowing yourself and building those habits that align with your strengths. I love the example he gives about Scott Adams, the guy who created Dilbert.

he wasn't necessarily the best artist in the world and he wasn't the funniest writer but he combined those skills to create something that was totally unique and successful yeah it's not always about being the absolute best in one specific area it's more about finding that unique combination of skills and interests that like sets you apart okay so as we wrap up this deep dive into atonic habits

What's one final like thought provoking question or challenge we can leave our listeners with? That's a good one.

I think a good question to ponder might be this. What's one habit that you could design into your environment starting today to make it almost impossible for you to fail? Could you set up automatic savings deposits? Could you move that bag of chips to the back of the pantry? Could you join a group of people who share your goals? Something like that. Those are great ideas. And remember, even tiny changes, when you do them consistently, can lead to some pretty remarkable results over time. So thanks for joining us on this deep dive into atomic habits.

We hope you found it insightful and empowering. See you next time.