MAILBAG Year in Review
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Sometimes it's good to do something unrelated and it just helps to keep going. And, you know, there's a fine line of that. You know, I think doing that too much can be avoidance too. But it has been helpful for me to put one foot in front of the other. Okay.

Welcome to, I think what's going to be the last episode of 2024. There might be one more, but there also might not be. Because if we've learned anything this year, Let It Out has been real loose. This is sort of a state of the podcast address, a mailbag episode. I'm here with the incredible producer of this show and my friend, Ella. Hello.

Thank you for being here. So we put out a episode today, which would have been if you listen every, I was going to say every week, but it's been a bit more sporadic than in years past. So I really appreciate everyone tuning in despite that because I really prided myself in this show on being consistent and showing up to everything

record and put out an episode every single week, no matter what. And I really fell short of that this year for several reasons, but I want to continue with more consistency, but I also have to be realistic about how it might take some time to get back to that. But anyway, if you listened to the last episode, it was just me. And we put a call out for questions and that

And I just published it a mere few minutes ago at the time that we're recording this. If you submit one and we don't answer it, it might be because we recorded it after. But I'm really excited to get to talk to Ella live. It's nice to be here with you and all of you listening and for sticking around. Even though it hasn't been as consistent, I'm really proud of the episodes that we've made and

grateful for the people that I've gotten to talk to. I mean, some of them that stick out to me, the one with Tracy from the very beginning of the year was about decluttering. And Tracy came over and did a decluttering session in my apartment. And then we recorded that episode. And I really enjoyed that, really enjoyed talking to her and

That one is one that sticks out from the very beginning of the year. And it's less about how much stuff you have. Like there's sort of no recipe that you should have 30 books and four t-shirts and that doesn't work, but is, do you have more stuff than is making your home or your life or your time management work? And then I loved part one and part two of my episode. I think it was kind of the first of the pod heavy on the cast era of this summer when I was

inside. And I talked to Erica. Connecting people takes a certain amount of distance, like stepping out of your own ego and evaluating these two people, drawing the points of connection, and then like letting go and letting God in a profound way. Maybe they meet and don't like each other. Maybe they meet and become better friends than you are with either of them. That's happening a lot. That's, you know, it's just like lack of control. Yeah.

And then Erica connected me with Christine Barbaro. And that was a really special episode and one that I really enjoyed but didn't have very much time. And so that kind of stressed me out. But I loved what we did get to cover in that. And I hope she comes back.

There are moments when our lives are small and a lot of the, it's like swans, you know, where they, they look like they're not very, you know, doing much above the water, but under the water, they're like paddling like crazy. It's like, it doesn't look like there's a lot happening above the surface, but there's so much richness that's happening under the surface. And you have to remember that that's a big part of success and growth and, and doing it on your terms.

We were emailing after and she listened to it and liked it and said that she was like, "If you really feel like you wanted to record more, we totally can. So I will take her up on that." And then I had Carrie Lynn Palmer back on the podcast and I always love having her on and she's always a big hit and I really enjoyed that episode. Oh, condition to love the exit.

The middle part is not sexy. People don't really want to talk about that part. I actually think this part's really interesting. This is the part where you get to kind of discover who you are. Her little dog sat in my lap and I loved recording that one. I think I mentioned this in that one, but I don't know if I ever told you, but we recorded for about 20 minutes of that one. And then I realized I wasn't recording. So that was a big bummer.

So we called it the lost basement tape. So she's got to come back for that. And then recently with Chloe, I loved that one. How I present my food is just as important for me as to the taste of my food. It really truly is. And I think it's because I have such a design focused mind or aesthetically driven kind of outlook. And so whether that's with my writing or photos or indeed food and plating, I

It always has like an artful perspective to it. Anyway, and I'm missing so many people and so many guests and so many episodes, I know, but those are some favorites of the year and I'm just –

excited to keep doing this next year. Do you have any episodes, even like just, it doesn't have to be from this year. It's no biggie if you're like, I don't remember. We do so many of these, but are there any that you remember liking or it can be from any time? I'm just curious. Yeah. I'm trying to think from this year. You're right. It does kind of blend together. As a musician, I often like the ones with other musicians. Like I really enjoyed the

The Buck Meek one. I know that was a long, long time ago. With this album, it was more just processing the idea of unification with another and loss of that and various circles of duality of that. And the Courtney Marie Andrews one. I loved both of those. This year... How many musicians this year? I'm trying to think. I don't think so. Maybe. Not that I remember. I think we did a lot of writers this year.

Yeah, I forgot to mention Melissa Broder. That was big for me. What were you going to say? Did we do Sherry Foose this year or was that last year? Oh, I think that was the very end of last year. I liked that one. Yeah. I keep meaning to go to a narrative method workshop and I keep not going. Yeah, that was really cool because it was a partnership. You know, that was like a really special thing.

sponsorship that we got to do. And yeah, so I guess I just pulled it up. But so we kicked off the year with my dear friend, Maddie, Madeline. And this is sort of full circle now that I'm thinking about this because

Yeah. So Madeline De La Rosa came on the podcast years ago in maybe 2020, and then we became really good friends. Then we became much closer this year, even since we recorded this episode, because it was the first episode of 2024. I'm looking now, it came out on January 7th, and we split it up into two. But I remember Maddie and I recorded that

almost probably exactly a year ago at the very end of December. It was the last one I recorded before. I remember I took her to the airport to go home for Christmas right after that. And recently Maddie interviewed me and she broke it into two parts and it just came out on her YouTube channel. So I didn't even think about that. The hardest part is getting started. And so I think

It's just about doing the work and it's not even work. It's like what you're interested in and what you want to do it. You just got to do it, which I know is like easier said than done, but it's totally worth it because you never know what could come of it. And everyone's waiting to see what you make.

having her interview me. And it was definitely really full circle because I needed a lot of help this year when I got hurt and Maddie took me to doctor's appointments. And I think there's an intimacy that builds with people when they have to see you at your worst, which was a topic of one of the substacks that Ella shared.

edited that we put out this year recently. But that's one kind of full circle thing. And then, oh yeah, another sub stack that we wrote about was we reissued my

zine I wrote in 2019 about breakups and we put out this breakups variety show then my friend James came back on because he had a book come out and I loved that episode there's something so honest about sad music that it kind of just like there's a shared humanity that we're all tapping into like the human experience is inherently there's some sadness to it

I mentioned Tracy organizing chaos. We call that one decluttering expert Tracy on collecting experiences, not objects. We did pretty well with that title, Ella. Yeah, I like it. I like it. I liked that episode. And then we had...

Jacqueline Suskin on poet, educator, author. I met her at a reading earlier that year and she had moved to Michigan, but used to live here. So I loved, I loved that one. Every earthly system always blows my mind with its perfection. And the seasons are like that. You know, the seasons are constantly suggesting like when to say no, when to say yes, when to expand, when to, when to contract. And, and,

I think this book is just kind of like me giving everyone that reminder and then showing different ways in like giving invitations to people to be like,

Well, what does it look like for you to utilize this moment of natural expansion or turning inward? And how does that, you know, fill you up? And I guess the closest person to a musician that we had on this year would be my friend Free. And he has, he's the founder of the Record Club. He's a DJ and musician.

yeah, the record club is so cool. And we split that one up into two because that was a really long one, but I loved that one. And then Jessica Lida came back. She was someone who we talked to in 2020 and she reached out to me and I was so happy she did. It was like at the perfect time. And I loved that one. If you spend your whole life trying to live a life that isn't yours, you're filling up

spaces in your life with not only what you don't want, but something that's meant for someone else. And then my friend Phoebe had a new book out. So she came over to the apartment and we recorded. People would just have these spurts were like, I'm going to try something. And then they would choose something that was super complicated and get really discouraged. They'd spend too much money. They spend too much time and then never want to cook again. Just choose a really simple recipe from someone you trust.

less than 10 ingredients, maybe one or two spices. You'll buy them. Hopefully then you can choose other recipes that have those spices since you already have them and just like kind of slowly build your pantry from there. Oh yeah. Disha Dyer, Obama's social secretary. That one.

I really loved, she was so cool. - Never seen a Black president before. We're not that far removed from Jim Crow and segregation and slavery even, you know, would this actually really happen? But it was this euphoric like high is what I always call it to people because when it did happen,

I remember thinking that so everything was possible, you know, and I'm not like a dreamer kind of a person, to be honest with you. I'm a very like real person. Like, yeah, I don't think that's going to work. Right. And and so when it did, when he did get elected, I just remember that magic and that mystique. It was almost like being a child. I'm just reading them off. But at this point, I've started. So it's kind of fun. And that pretty much brings us up to the present. I mentioned the

Melissa Broder, that was a super full circle moment for me because she is someone that I've admired for so long. I love her work and I love her books. And that was really cool to

I try to be as messy as possible because I need to dismantle the perfectionist, right? Like a sculptor works with clay and they're given the clay that they then are shaping and shaping. But as a writer, we have to make our own clay, which is like the raw materials of the words. So there's all kinds of ways that I work to dismantle my own perfectionism so that I can get enough clay that I can then begin to sculpt later in the editing process.

And then the other episodes that I didn't mention are one with my friend Simi and then with my friend Veronica, which were about Pivot, the zine that I wrote.

It reminded me that when someone is brave enough to reflect honestly on their life and on their experience, and then they're even more brave and bold and honest in putting that into words so that other people can connect with it and can see themselves reflected and can feel less alone and can just have a more robust experience.

look at the human experience. It is such a gift that you're giving people. And I think when we read someone else's real experiences, but in, you know, in writing and like a reflective form, it's so valuable to remember it. Like a person had to live through a lot to get to a place where they could reflect on it and write about it. Like there are a lot of hard moments. There are a lot of tears. There's a lot of growing pains. There's a lot of, you know, needing to be with yourself and

That was probably like the biggest highlight I think of this year for me in terms of let it out stuff. I'm really happy that I got that over the net. I think something that Ella and I, that I've been talking about privately with Ella is in the last couple years, it's been tricky to complete things. I have a lot of ideas and something that helps me and helped me a lot this week is

magic mind. And I know you have been in its finals week, right? It is. Yeah. I'm in my first semester of grad school now and it's crunch time. Yeah. And so you just got yours. I've been taking mine for six

I just got to seven days, which is cool. And I've been kind of updating you, Ella, and everyone here. But just to bring everybody up to date in case they didn't hear that. And I want to hear how it's felt for you and especially like with finals and everything. But basically Magic Mind is it's really cool. It's this little drink that you take and it helps you get to 100 percent mental health.

performance without the downsides, without the effects from over-caffeination, I have found it really helpful. It's this mental performance shot that you use in addition to your coffee and your caffeine. And it has your daily vitamin C and vitamin D, all that you need of those vitamins, which are like the most important ones, you know? And it also has mushroom nootropics and adaptogens. So

which I find very useful. And yeah, so it helps you to become more focused and mentally clear, very helpful for writing those newsletters and doing this. So you have taken it, what did you think? How did it feel? I know you've only taken it for less days than I've been on it now, but- Well, I will say that I noticed today, like I'm a coffee lover. So I often will

crave multiple cups of coffee in the morning. And then a little while after I'll have that crash and the anxiety and the jitters. And I will say that today I took the magic mind shot and it tasted pretty good.

by the way. Like I'm usually a huge like green juice person because I don't live in LA. But yeah, it was quite pleasant. And I noticed that I didn't feel like I needed more caffeine throughout the day, which is definitely good for me. But yeah, I'm curious to see how

it will help me focus because I absolutely need all the focus I can get. I tend to procrastinate. It's funny. I will procrastinate doing my own stuff by like editing Katie's newsletters, even though there's a paper that I need to write, but that's like scarier. And I would write your paper before doing the newsletter I need to get to you. Of course, yeah, yeah.

Maybe Magic Mind can cure every single part of us, even that sort of procrastination. Yes. Yes. Can't hurt. I'll definitely be taking it throughout the next week and a half. Good. That's very cool. That's very cool. You didn't reach for another coffee and that you like the taste. Yeah. They use organic ceremonial grade matcha grown in Japan and it's only from the first harvest of each year. So it just feels so special. And yeah,

It's a really cool company. They use mushrooms that are grown in California. And like you said, even though it has all of these beneficial ingredients, 12 active ingredients that help support your body's energy, still it tastes good, which is really important to us. So I love that. And then the best part about it is that they do this no risk thing. Did I tell you about this, Ella? It's cool because –

they're actually so confident people are going to love it that they've built in this 100% refund, no questions asked. You don't even have to say why. For 100 days after buying, that's so many days, you just get it. And then if you don't like it, you just send it back and they'll refund you, which is so cool. So they also ship to 65 countries, over 65 actually. And I'm

I'm so glad that you liked it. I really am. And if you listening want to try it, they have a limited time offer. This is it. This is the last of this offer. So you can, for a limited of time, use the code that I'm about to give you to get up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off a one-time purchase by using the code LETITOUT.

at checkout. And so you can claim that at magicmind.com slash L-I-O. We'll have the link in the show notes. But yeah, this is a limited time offer. You can use 48% off your first subscription or 20% off a one-time purchase with the code

let it out at checkout. So anyway, I'm so glad that it's been helpful for you. Anything else you want to add about Magic Mind? Well, just to echo on what you said about the vitamin C and D, for someone who lives in New England, I live in Boston now, and the early sunsets are hard as someone that gets seasonal affective disorder, which I feel like most people here have some degree of, honestly. Getting enough vitamin D is huge. And that's something that

I wanted to make sure that I got enough of this winter. It's just good to know that Magic Mind has me covered with that. Yeah, we like a multi-purpose product. It's great that it helps with something that can potentially help you to not get sick, help you to feel better with the sun and also supports energy in the day. Yeah, it's really cool. I'm very happy to get to try it and that we get to offer it here too with a discount, which is cool.

haven't put out something new in a while. And so it was really good to just get the ball rolling and put out that zine. And I want to do more. It gave me some momentum. And I also want to announce that we're going to be doing in process, speaking of momentum. And I really contribute that to having done the zine, having gotten back into consistently putting out episodes as best we can. And I hope to be even more consistent next year with

sending out the newsletter. I think I put more energy into the newsletter this year than in years past, which made it more sporadic. But I am proud of the ones that we did put out and the topics that we wrote about. And yeah, and then we're going to do In Process again. And how do you feel about In Process? Or if you had to describe In Process, what would you say? Yeah.

First of all, I'm really looking forward to doing a new semester of it. So, I mean, it was interesting because I'm not one of the founders of In Process or what was previously Creative Underdogs. My good friend Maria was, who used to do my job. But...

But you pretty much are. Honorary. Yeah, okay. I'll take that. Yeah, it's just a really supportive group of people, most of whom are artists in some way, but not all. Just creatively minded people talking really vulnerably about

their struggles and their projects and the things that help them. And like as a creative person myself, it's always been fun and a good learning opportunity for me to be able to sit out on these and listen to the guest lectures and,

I often don't have time to do the journaling, I'll be honest, but I always want to. But yeah, if you're on the fence, I highly recommend checking it out. Yeah, I'm excited too. And I think the only reason why we didn't do it, it's something I started in 2020 and at that time it was just so needed. I think we were – it's wild that that's four years ago, but –

I had this idea before the pandemic to do some sort of, yes, you said it, but supportive group where we talk about the ups and downs of being a person who either has a job and has hobbies or creative projects on the side of that job or is trying to support themselves with their work and their creative projects or whatever.

everything in between you know and we had a really broad group of people anywhere on that spectrum in the first session and then in the second session it was a lot of mostly all the same people and new people and then we did another we waited I think maybe a year and I think we did it I think we did I can't remember if we did three times total or four times total but we we

It used to be called Creative Underdogs and I changed the name to In Process, which is very confusing. Even Ella and I use it interchangeably. But yeah, it's a place to come and feel connected because I know for me and my work and life

you can feel like you're sort of on an island and having consistency. I mean, Ella and I were just talking about it before we pressed record today. We both sort of had weird days and we showed up here anyway. And Ella said this, sometimes it's good to do something unrelated and it just helps to

keep going. And there's a fine line of that. I think doing that too much can be avoidance too, but it has been helpful for me to put one foot in front of the other, even when things feel hard. And I think making the zine pivot was that for me. And sometimes it can give you momentum and that did for me. And I'm excited and hopeful for the future with doing

doing this, doing in process again. And yeah, it's, you know, we'll, we'll do it on zoom. We'll all get on and there'll be a topic. And I already know what I want this theme to be. And I don't know if we'll have guests this time or not. We might, we might not, but there's, you have access to the archive of all the other sessions and all the other guests, if you, if you join, but yeah,

We just want it to be really accessible. If anyone wants to do it, you can do it. Like we'll figure out – we'll make it a sliding scale. We'll make it like whoever wants to be in it can be in it. It's going to be really accessible and easy and a low lift. And like Ella said, like there will be journaling prompts and there will be ideas and concepts. And if you just think about them, you know, maybe that is helpful or maybe –

do a really long journaling session and you are able to parse through things in that way, or maybe you come back to it in two years, or maybe it just like kind of seeps in. I think it's all good to just show up and be around other people talking about things, like you said, vulnerably. And honestly, there's a very low tolerance for bullshitting. There's a low tolerance for just

surface level in those rooms. I think what we do is just like, let's get into it. Like, what are we, what are we processing? What are we having trouble with? What are, how can we help each other? How can we see this differently? What are some resources? What are some things we can research and how can we, it's about keeping each other inspired. And I think that's like a really important thing that we can easily do for each other. And I would add just, especially with the

The, you know, the current political climate and especially next year, there's going to be a lot of big feelings about that. And a lot of people are

not feeling great about it. And I think that that connection and that positivity between people who value humanity and connection and seeing the best in everyone is going to be absolutely vital to our well-being. Katie, you can edit this out if it's too political. But yeah, I think that

I just think it'll be especially important, you know? Yeah, I agree. And yeah, I look forward to like how people are processing current events with art, with creativity, because I think like that's what we're going to need to get through this. Yeah.

Yeah, that's such a good point. I mean, that kind of one thing that I, we were kind of looking over the questions and what we were going to talk about right before this. And I was like, you know, something we could talk about is our LNI's process with

and editing the newsletters. And we've been working together for a really long time now, which is one of the most special things to me to have someone that I collaborate with in this way with so much longevity. There's been so much change in my

my life and in the podcast recently. And so consistency is really nice and, you know, and I don't ever expect it. And I know that things change and fluctuate, but

But it's also okay to – and that is okay. That's great and that's part of it. But I think it's also okay to just be like it's nice to have a long-term collaboration. I think that can just be celebrated. And one of the things that we work on so well together is making the newsletter and that exact point that you're talking about of putting things out in the midst of –

the world that we live in, which is constantly changing. And I think that's a big, something that

I'm constantly thinking about, I think we're all thinking about in our own ways, but has been paralyzing for me at many, many times. And I've turned to you, Ella, you know this, and you are so wonderful at it. And I trust you so implicitly with this where I'm someone who, I'm not a political writer. I'm not a political, particularly like

the most informed even. I mean, I try, but it's not my bag. So with that in mind, I am constantly like, oh, should I put this out today comparatively to what's happening in the world? This means nothing because what I do isn't a political writer. I'm a person that writes about my feelings on the internet. So there's never going to be a time where that's super important or

is necessary, but it's, it is what I do. So I'm constantly like, Oh, like for instance, I mean, one, one that you'll remember Ella is like, and this is just part of our process, which is sort of funny. And I'm happy to talk about here that I will, um,

think that a draft is done, I'll say to Ella, like, oh, yeah, I'm pretty much – like, I have it written. It'll be really easy to edit. And then like a week later, I'm like, actually, here's another draft for you to read. And I've changed it completely. And anyway, we were in a cycle of that. And so it was meant to go out, you know, maybe a week before it was or two weeks before it was even, which is not uncommon, unfortunately. And –

And then it was, remember this? It was election day. And I was like, do we just hold this and not send it out? Maybe send it out tomorrow because it feels weird to send something out on election day. But then if I don't send it out on election day, then the day after is not going to be a great day for that. Either way, even if it had gone the other way or just having to navigate putting things out

and sharing work or art in the midst of the collective, I think is a constant, it's a, yeah, it's, it's tricky. And I think having other people around, having you around, I'll speak for myself is so helpful. And in, in so many of the, the last several newsletters, I've, you know, kind of had a caveat of,

Compared to what's going on in the world, I know this is nothing. And I always want to have that in there. And then sometimes I think, and you can speak to this better, but I just so appreciate you, Ella, and your worldview and your understanding, but also your understanding of me and the work and like what I'm trying to do here and what I'm capable of and not capable of.

Yeah.

No, that's totally true. And also thank you for saying all those nice things. I agree. I really like our collaborative process, especially on the writing stuff. But what I was going to add to that was there's never a good time to release anything. I feel like there's always going to be somebody out there that's going to be like, well, this is insensitive or this isn't the right time to release that. And you have to release it anyway. I mean, obviously use judgment.

and write caveats when they're appropriate. But I would push back from what you said that sharing your feelings on the internet is never important. I think that sometimes it is very important. People may not realize it, but like, that's what they need to read. After reading article after article of news, and doom scrolling, and you know, doom and gloom stuff. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree that it's like,

You need another set of eyes. I need another set of eyes. We all need another set of eyes to offer different perspectives. But yeah, don't sell yourself short in terms of how important your writing is. Oh, thanks. Well...

Yeah. I mean, I think there was one of them in particular, the one it came out two times ago is about intimacy and who knows what we ended up naming that one. Cause I think I go through so many different iterations of titles and we go back and forth, but whatever that one was, I had. I think it was called How Close is Too Close. Yeah.

That's right. That's what we called it. Yeah, I had written a different version of that. That was the hardest one to write this year. That was the most difficult one for me and you and everyone involved. And I don't know if I'm proud of the final product of that because I

What happened was – and you know this, Ella. I wrote one thing and then I got kind of halfway through that and I was like, you know what? The ending of that, like the sort of middle or ending of that thing that I wrote, I was like, that's actually the real crux of this. Let me just start in the – at the – in the middle. Let me just like cut out the fluff and like let me just write about the real thing because I was kind of dancing around it. So then I wrote about the real thing and

But then that felt a little bit too – and I was reading Miranda July's book, All Fours, at the time. And I think I just wrote my – I wrote it in that –

like I was writing a story of sort of auto fiction, I guess, but it was, it was not what I wanted to put out in a, in a sub, I'll say that. And Ella read that version and then we kind of called it, like it was like the end of the week and we were like, yeah, I think this is just, there's too far to go on this or to make it something else is not really going to work. Like, I'm just going to like write a different newsletter. Yeah.

And then I think I came back to you, Ella, like a couple of days later and I was like, look, I just ended up reworking that one. Maybe we can make that work. And so I think I ended up taking that really to one that made me feel too exposed and broadened it out and watered it down a bit. And that ended up being what we put out, I think. And

That was just sort of the process on that. It took so long, I think, because of that. Then it got so much longer because something that I – a bad habit I realized I have, and I'm sure I've realized this before. Ellie, you can probably tell me better. Yeah.

I realized it last night when we were working on the newsletter we just put out where I'll be writing something and then everything I see or hear or idea that I take in or something that – a ping that pops into my mind or like an intuition, I'm like, that'll go. Like I want to share that. That's good. There's an idea. So then I try to put it into the container that I already have open instead of like saving it for a different fresh container.

or not use at all so then I end up overstuffing the one container and Ella has to be like dude we got enough in this container you know is that is that correct from your point of view yeah yeah I think our process is me kind of wanting to force brevity on you and I need that obviously I

I need that even right now. Yeah. And I, and I so appreciate that. And it's something that, you know, I'm working on and, and, and not even forced brevity. I would say like, I hope it's, it's helping me to say what I'm trying to say, you know? And, and I so appreciate that I can go to you and say like, this is what I'm trying. And I think for in particular, um,

that one I knew very clearly, like I'm trying to write about this by telling this story that I can tell because this is an experience that I've had where I learned this. And, um,

I kind of went around the back through the legs over the shoulder. And sometimes you can just be like, okay, yeah, but we could also just go straight, you know? Yeah. I think the way that our brains compliment each other is really good in that way. And all right, we don't have much time, but you want to do the questions that we did get submitted real quick. Sure. So this is Joe. What's something you discovered about yourself while walking that you wouldn't have if you'd stayed still? Oh my gosh. Yeah.

That's so cool. Joe is my friend, my new friend. He came to the zine launch party and then he's so cool and nice. So I did see this question before, but I actually didn't. I just sent a screenshot to Ella of these. I actually didn't read it. Something that I...

Wait, what was it? Something that I learned about myself while walking? Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Like, I don't mean to overstate or overhype walking and its benefit to me, but...

I mean, if I could give people a discount code to walking, I would. I mean, I just – I can't recommend anything higher and I know that it's something that probably everyone does, but I do it a lot. I always have. And I did as transportation a lot more in New York and it was my favorite part of living in that city and something I was so terrified of not having part of my life when I moved to

to LA and bought a car. And I'm lucky to live in a neighborhood and a particular place in the neighborhood where I can walk more easily than in other places. But still, even like where I live, it's not New York. And most people would drive to a lot of the places that I still walk to. And I very intentionally, as you know, Ella, because I'm most of the time seem to be walking or voice texting you, talking about work, things like I just, I'm so much more

better in motion. I think of most of my ideas in motion. And you've unfortunately been the victim of this, Ella, many, many times where I'll start talking about something and I'm like, well, I'm walking. So then I have eight more ideas. It's kind of like being in the shower, I think, for some people. I mean, I get that. I've gotten an idea in the shower too, I must say, and also driving. But

But truly – and I think there's something about – this is it. This is the answer to Joe's question. It's kind of this exact thing that I'm doing right now. And you know me well enough at this point to know this, Ella, too. I'm a verbal processor. I realize things by talking. This came up in episodes of the past when we've had human design readers on who have told me that I'm a –

I forget what it is. I'm this type of – the way I make decisions basically is by talking it out not just with myself but with other people. That's why I think voice texting is so helpful for me because I figure out what I think and how I – and I used to say this about journaling too. And I still think journaling is a great alternative to this because I can't talk people's ear off all the time. And journaling, it allows me to do that. But I'm able to see what I think as I write. And

even, you know, when I'm writing something, you know, we kind of said it, even when I'm writing something to share, even if I'm writing an essay or if I'm writing an episode or if I'm writing notes for something, I often figure out what I'm thinking about something in that way. And if I go on a walk that's long enough and I have a long, I have enough time, it'll allow me to meander my mind enough to be able to really like

think something through because I'm sort of stuck. You know what I mean? If I know that I have to – I'm going to be at my destination in 10 minutes, I'm not going to like really get into something. Whereas if I – like one time I walked to Frogtown from where I live, which is like not something that people would walk to. And it's a way to force myself to give myself space. You know what I mean? Where it's – you can say you have an hour of time to journal, but –

You are also in your house, so you could also clean or someone come to the door or your phone is there, you know, where it's like when I'm walking, it's kind of the closest thing I can contrive. That's like being on a plane and the sense of.

I'm unable to do much else. You can multitask a little bit. Like voice texting is pretty good to do while walking or talking on the phone, but I can't really text text. I can't really like be on Instagram. I can't really read something. It's pretty much listening and talking.

And I often journal while walking. Like I'll talk into my phone and transcribe it or I'll – and you know this Ella too. This is huge actually. We use this app called Speechify that we – I just learned that Ella also uses it, which I love. And we do have a code for it. So if you want to try it, it gives you money off. But I couldn't be a bigger supporter to this. This is not at all –

I found it myself, but it essentially lets you listen to anything you want to listen to. And I find it really, really helpful for editing. So I'll put in the newsletter and then I'll edit it in there and I'll be like, oh, that just doesn't sound like what I'm trying to say or that doesn't make sense when I hear it. And it is good at just like catching typos. And as you know, Ella, I'm really bad at

I like never voice text really unless I'm walking. And when I broke my leg and I couldn't do that, I don't even know what we did. I guess I must've done it a little, but yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Is that, does, yeah. Tell me what you think. I agree with you about the walking. I don't walk as much as you do. I should get more steps in and be out more. I think it's very. Well, it's really hard in the Boston winter. Yeah.

Yeah, but it's doable, you know, excuses. But yeah, I also find I don't tend to voice text as much as you, but I do think things through on walks. And another thing that I often come up with on walks and on long car drives, those two are like new song ideas or song lyrics. Yeah.

Like I've almost written like a full song one time and a 30 minute car ride. That's probably my record, but I'll just think of like cool ideas. And I think you're totally right in that you're not at home. So you don't have those distractions and you're also not with other people. So you're not like interacting with them or, you know, you're just with yourself and you know, you have to,

be unless you're I mean I also when I'm walking I often listen to music or podcasts too but when I decide I just want to be with myself that's

that's usually when some interesting thoughts come in. So yeah, I agree with you a lot on that. Yeah, that was such a fun question. I think we have time to do one more if I'm less long-winded in this one. Okay, so this one is also, it's kind of an addendum to that one. So it says, what's your relationship to walking and how does it serve your thinking process creativity? So you kind of talked about that, but if you have more to add.

Yeah, I feel like we covered it. I mean, I guess I just want to add, I really love going on walks with people. Like it's my favorite way to hang out because it's active. I feel like I'm killing two birds with one stone. Like I feel like,

I need to walk a lot in a day just to feel like baseline okay endorphins wise. Like I just – it's very helpful to me. And you're outside. It's free. I don't really like drinking that much anymore. And I'm not – like it's fine, but it's expensive. You know, it's not something I want to do as often as walking, I'll say. And so it's nice.

and it's nice to like have a hang to like get up early and go on a walk with someone I really enjoy or like at the sunset. I mean, it gets dark so early now but everywhere.

And, you know, I think that's a privilege of living somewhere where it's easier to walk most of the year. But, I mean, this is just such a relevant – and, yeah, we covered all the creativity stuff, I think, about it already. But I just – I think what I'll add of it being such a relevant question to me, particular to bringing this episode forward,

full circle to the beginning of sort of reflecting on the year, that is huge. I mean, as much as I was worried when I moved from New York to LA about like, oh, I'm never going to walk that much again, I've looked back on my phone where it says the amount of steps I've taken and the average and whatever. I was doing that quite a lot this year because it was pretty jarring to have months of zero. And

I ended up walking more here than I did in New York. And, you know, I think there's several reasons to that. And part of that is, you know, maybe the pandemic or, you know, being nice out most of the year and my job situation changing. But it's something I just really appreciate. And I really appreciate about the life that I – walking takes a lot of time.

Like that was the other thing too of, you know, with breaking my leg and I couldn't walk. Obviously, I didn't prefer that. But I sat down at my computer more because I wasn't walking. So as much as I'm like, oh, it's so great because you can't be on your computer. You can't be texting. You can't be writing. Well, it's like then you're behind on your writing, you know, or your emails or whatever. So, you know, everything is like in moderation and I'm such an extremist with everything. But –

But I think – yeah, I'm definitely – it gave me some perspective on how much I really enjoy being able to walk and how – and I don't think I even took it for granted before, but I never, ever will. Anyway, and I'm just – I'm really grateful for another year of doing this. I'm grateful for as much as I love walking, what I love more, talking. So –

I'm really grateful that you did this with me, Ella, and for everyone listening. And yeah, I'm excited to do a bunch more. So let us know who you want to hear and what you want to hear and what you want us to write about and if you want to join in process. And we also have the holiday workshops, which

are really cool. It's about – one is about changing your relationship to resolutions and I'm really proud of that one. I taught it at Kripalu for many years and I've taught that for like 10 years. Both of them I've taught for over 10 years at this point. The other one is about – I call it putting happy back in the holidays and it's about

navigating the stress of this season, everything from eating to spending time with family to financial stress. And I just feel like everyone's feeling so squeezed right now that that one is helpful in a myriad of ways, but that topic is included and

Anyway, those are available and hopefully accessible and affordable. And if they're not for some reason, you know, we'll make sure you can, it is available to you. And then, you know, Ella and I are going to write more newsletters and clearly, you know, it takes a while. This is kind of cool. You know, it is a peek behind why perhaps they take so long, but I'm just so grateful to you, Ella, to get to collaborate with you and that you came on here. And yeah, anything else you want to leave people with?

Well, yeah, I'm happy to be here and talk with you in a way that we don't normally get to. And yeah, I hope that everybody has a restful and safe holiday. And, you know, remember to put yourself first. And yeah, I'm really looking forward to what we do together in the next year, Katie. Me too. Okay, let's do the let out a deep breath together. Ready? Inhale. Let it out.

And thank you to Jeremiah who adds this podcast. Jeremiah came in and saved the day this year. And I also want to thank Bree, who was our previous editor, who I love. And I'm so grateful for all the time that that she put into this show. And then so grateful that Jeremiah could come in and work with us. So thank you so much to them. Thank you to you, Ella. And yeah, thank you to all of you listening. And we'll talk to you next year.