Unfiltered: AMA with Jameela!
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Learn more at capella.edu. Hello, and welcome to Ask Me Anything with Jamila Jamil.

I hope you're well. This is a podcast episode where, if you haven't heard before, I answer your questions directly, no matter how serious or silly they are. Sometimes I have a guest, but when I have millions of questions like the ones that you sent in this week, then I choose to do it on my own so I can get through and get to as many as possible. I do also think I wanted to do this by myself because I know that we are starting to begin the wind-down process of this podcast. And I think it's a good thing that we're doing this together.

and I think I crave moments of intimacy of just it being you and me.

And I want to quickly say a word on that, and there will be more. But basically, I have loved doing this podcast so much for the past nearly five years. And thank you so much for all the people who've been listening from the very start and who send me your Spotify wrapped every Christmas and show me that you spent hundreds of hours with us on this podcast. I really appreciate it.

I have learned so much, not just from my amazing guests, but also from you. And you've pushed me and encouraged me and made me want to find bigger and more interesting and more inclusive stories. And I thank you so much for that. Thank you for all the guests you recommended. Also, because I don't think I ever would have found those people. I really feel as though this has been a collaborative podcast between all of us.

And I guess it's because the subjects were all so interesting that I think this type of podcast needs to be moved to a format where I can dig deeper into each subject.

We've covered so much, so much ground, so many topics on fucking nearly everything. But these subjects are nuanced and they have layers and they have history and it's hard to cram that into 35 or 40 minutes. So I think when we return, it will be in more of a kind of mini-series way where it's like women's health.

or mental health or global politics where we can actually really sink our teeth into what the fuck is going on and not having to cram it into more of a kind of soundbite haven.

And so I think this podcast was an amazing way to create an introduction, not just for some of you, but mostly for me to learn about all these things. But now that I have a kind of general understanding, I want to know more. I really, really want to get into the weeds of it. And so that's kind of why we're transitioning out. And also, I'm moving back to writing. Before I became an actress, before I became a podcaster, I was a writer, I was a columnist. And

I have come back to writing. There's a platform called Substack that you can find my writing on now where I talk about some of the same things I talk about here and my thoughts on life. And it's a big deal for me to be doing this because for a really long time, I have only felt safe in my entire industry being myself here in this podcast with you. You are the only people who have some semblance of who I really am away from the tabloid world

caricature of me or the characters that I play or the way I have to kind of perform in interviews. I don't do that here and I'm moving my most real vulnerable self

into writing again and onto a kind of social media platform. But it's not like other ones because people subscribe to you. They make the choice to opt in on you. So there's less trolling and less bullshit and no algorithmic nonsense. I mean, I don't know how many of you saw on my Instagram lately, but because I've been outspoken about what's happening in Palestine, I have been so severely shadow banned that I'm

almost nobody actually sees, can see my account.

It's really hard to even search for me. You have to type in my full name and I have an Arab name. So not everyone can spell that perfectly. So people can't find me. People unfollowed me without meaning to. I got unfollowed by the app for literally hundreds of thousands of people. My posts were hidden. People thought I'd taken a social media break for six months when I had been posting every fucking day. The only way I can break through the algorithm now is to shake my tits and

at the camera, which is fine and a lovely fun way to connect, but not something I want to have to be forced to do. I want to do that on my own terms, not just so I can get an important message out to people.

I don't know what's happened to social media, but I think the move towards pure consumerism and content only really being driven towards consumerism has kind of wrecked what we all first signed up for. And so what I like about Substack is the fact that it feels like it's about our interests again, because no one's selling you anything. The only thing you're buying is someone's art, is someone's work, is someone's opinion, is someone's good to supporting artists.

and you don't get bombarded with things you don't want to see because you're opting in on everything. And so you can find me there at Substack. It's at my name and it's on my social media link and bio, etc. But you will be able to find this side of me there for the time being until I figure out a new way to bring this podcast back to life. So

There's so many questions I'm going to jump in but I just wanted to address that because some people have heard rumblings. Someone said, "You've been through some difficult times in your personal life. What has been the one that influences the decisions that you make now the most?"

Unequivocally, it is my health. It is any kind of big health emergency I have. That is always when I have my biggest wake-up calls and it has massively shaped my perspective in the world, in how hard I choose to work, in how I treat my body and then how I encourage other people to treat their bodies. So much of my perspective and my rationale about

the importance of preserving our long-term health comes from the fact that I'm not going to have mine because of every fucking stupid thing that I did to my body and I'm so so sad that my 20 something year old self did that to me and she didn't she wasn't taught to protect me she wasn't taught to value me she was taught to make it take emergency measures to fit in with a society and

with its ever-changing fickle fucking beauty standards. And I am devastated for her, and I'm devastated for all people who fall into...

the chaos that is an eating disorder or dysmorphia or low self-confidence, low self-esteem, etc. because of our disgusting society and media and social media, etc. And so my having lost my health has been the biggest force behind all of my activism and mostly the way that I now choose to look after myself and treat my body like it's my best friend.

I finally, finally give it the respect and the care it deserves. Is it a bit fucking late? Yeah. Is my bone density ever going to get better? Not sure. Don't know if my kidneys are ever going to get better. Don't know if my digestive system or metabolism are ever going to work again. I've done some significant damage to my mental health.

I'm pretty stressed out about the state I've left myself in, but I am still only in my 30s and can maybe pull it back. And I guess I'm just here trying to stop anyone from falling off the same cliff that I did. And that's why I'm so relentless and annoying about it. But yeah, it's my health. It is the most important thing in the world to prioritize. There's nothing I can think of that is more important to prioritize than your health. And you only realize that normally when you fucking lost it, which is such a tragedy. So,

On that note, please make sure that you think about your older lady body, not your old, old, old lady body, although she should also be in mind, but just always think about life ahead of this moment. If you're being encouraged to do anything quick fix that might be dangerous or unregulated or might in any way cause you any kind of harm later, I really want you to think. Think about if it's worth it. Think about what older you is going to think of you now. Is she going to be...

grateful to you or is she going to want to kick you right in the tits and I'm really I really want you to think about that because current me now could strangle 25 year old me for the decisions that she made for what she did to us and I don't want 85 year old me to feel that way so just think about that anyway thank you for that question I love it

Next question. Was Tahani at Diddy's White Party or not? So for those of you who don't know, I was an actor on a show called The Good Place. And I played a character called Tahani, who was a vainglorious, attention-seeking social climber who used to name drop celebrities all the time. And there is this line that she has in the show that,

where she is decrying a journalist having claimed that she wasn't at P. Diddy's White Party when she was. And she's very stressed out. She's crying. I'm crying about it in the show. I would say, I think Tahani wasn't at Diddy's White Party. I think she did lie.

And I actually think her sister Camilla was there instead. Seems more like Camilla's scene. And for those of you who watch the show, you will understand that shade and you will understand what I mean. I believe Tahani's hands are clean and that she wasn't there and that she was making it up. I mean, who was going to invite Tahani to a fucking freak off? Let's be real. But my God, that case and also how quiet everyone's being about it is spooky.

It's like, oh God, I'm so glad I wasn't at one of those. It sounds terrifying and so terrifying. I don't even know if I want to say it more. I don't know enough. But I have never seen a case like this be so massive and everyone be so quiet about it. And that makes me really wonder what's going to happen, what's going to emerge. Anyway, Tahani was not there. I heard it was Camilla.

When you're earning your degree, the right support can make a difference. That's why at Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, including your dedicated academic coach, who's available every step of the way. Whether you're working toward a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, you can learn confidently knowing you'll get the help you need. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

Learn more at capella.edu. Next question. What tools have you learned to protect your mental health while being such an advocate? My tools are very, very basic. It is hanging out with my dogs, limiting my social media time. There's only so much information that my brain can handle at one time that anyone's brain can handle at one time. And we have to remember, we are literally not designed for this much information. We have only had access to this much information for the last maybe 10 years, and our brains have not updated in thousands.

Thousands of years. So they are so overwhelmed. We're constantly pathologizing the anxiety we feel all the time and thinking that we need to only medicate and only therapize and look at ourselves and protect our boundaries and this, that and the other. And those things are all important. But also...

It's not necessarily an illness. It's more that we are living in a sick society that is not built for our brains whatsoever. And we're having very normal reactions to very abnormal conditions. So I just want you to keep that in mind. So yeah, limiting the amount that I see, knowing that I can gain all the information I need within an hour, and then switching off and going back to happy, healthy content that keeps me in the present is how I protect myself. I also...

know that there is a certain capacity I have to be able to help and I have restricted the way that I help to places that I feel like I can actually be effective so I'm not constantly trying to

work across every single cause and just post Instagram infographics and just basically really just be signaling to other people, "Look, I care, look, I care." I now only focus on subjects that I feel as though I really understand and that I feel like I can actually have some meaningful impact on. And the rest of it is just balancing out the sadness with the joy and the darkness with the light.

When you work in advocacy, you hear the worst stories, whether you're talking about women who are dying because they can't have access to reproductive care, you're talking about what's happening to people in the Middle East, or what's happening to people in Sudan or Congo or Indonesia.

in Afghanistan under the Taliban. It's fucking horror stories. And you have to, in order to be sustainable in this work, balance it out. You have to give your brain a break. You do not have to martyr yourself by only exposing yourself to terrible content. You must not feel guilty for finding moments of joy and purity and love and happiness and laughter. You need that to be able to keep you going, to fuel you for the long run.

So just bear that in mind. Focus on sustainable work. Don't just throw yourself all the way in, not eat, not sleep, not take care of yourself. Live this 24 hours a day and then burn out and then be no use to anyone. I've done that before. I was really fucking unhelpful. And now I have learned how to pace myself and I've become a much more effective advocate. So it's just about balance, in my opinion. Next question. Someone says, is it possible to or should we even actually allow people

Divorcing the artist from the art. Sh*t.

That's a good question. I think about this all the time. I wonder constantly where I stand on certain things, because obviously I have quite a firm moral compass, like all of you, and I feel a certain way. But also, we are running out of artists to be able to support whatsoever, because it feels like every month we learn another one is a fucking monster or a

sex offender or an abusive bastard and it's becoming, it's really whittling my Spotify down from being able to separate the

So I'm wondering if we will even be able to consume art without separating the art from the artist soon. So many of my favorite movies are made by fucking horrendous people. Harvey Weinstein is responsible for most of the movies that I loved the most in the 90s and noughties. It makes me feel sick when I see his name pop up at the end of something and I'm like, oh fuck, I forgot he made that film. So I'm not sure. I think it's each to their own. I don't think we can get into the allow or not allow when it comes to something like this.

I think we should just try to figure out who we're even going to have left. I mean, we were just talking about the Diddy parties a minute ago. Fucking who knows how many people are going to go down with this whole horrific scandal. We're all waiting to see what these lists are going to be like. Who's going to be left to listen to or to watch the work of? It was all kind of different entertainers and public figures and politicians involved in all of this. So, guys, I don't know.

I don't really know. Do I listen to R. Kelly's Ignition anymore? No. But I don't know what I'm going to be listening to soon. I've become genuinely too scared to even ingest, like mention any kind of famous man that I like or write about him in any way because I'm like, it's just a three, two, one until it comes out that he's an abuser. And then I get into trouble for having said he was a great guy.

I don't know who I can even work with anymore half the time because people are turning out to be so rotten. I mean, just in the last year alone, we have learned new things about people in the public eye that we did not expect that has made us look at them very, very differently. And that has really freaked me out and again, changed who I want to work with. I feel suddenly like, Christ, we don't know who any of these people are. It's quite unsettling. So

I don't know. Maybe we just have to separate the art from the artist. Otherwise, there will be no art. I mean, even when you go back and you look at the actual artist, like Picasso, just a prick, a total prick. All of them just mad, terrible and illegal. Learning things about my favorite musicians and the fact that they all seem to have married like 13 and 14 year old girls. Gandhi married a 14 year old, I believe. What the fuck is going on?

And we're only just really starting to understand it, which is a beautiful and brilliant thing about TikTok. Also, it is the collapse of everything that we love and thought was good. So I don't know. I think I'm going to start trying to work on separating the art from the artist so that I can still watch and listen to shit. But I'm not sure that I'll be able to stomach it. It's still a work in progress. Hopefully my answer, I mean, my answer didn't guide you in any direction, but hopefully it's made you feel less alone with how hard this is.

Okay, next question. Who is your favorite superhero? Jane Fonda. I know that's probably not who anyone was looking for, but she's just my favorite superhero. Okay, next question. Someone said, would you ever do a role that required nudity?

I think no. I think I just don't want to. I don't really like simulating intimacy on camera. It just looks too real and it's too awkward to do and there's so many men in the room. I just don't want to do it. It just doesn't appeal to me. I'm comfortable with my boobs, as you know, because I shake them at the camera on Instagram whenever I need to break through the algorithm. But I think...

That part of me and my intimacy is something I would like to keep just for James, my partner.

and not share with the whole wide world. And I think it's beautiful and great if people want to do that, but just for me personally, I don't think I would enjoy that or feel comfortable. I think I'd have like a panic attack, nervous breakdown in my head. And I think maybe that's partially because I have a history of assault, so I feel very, very, very, very, very, very, very guarded about my...

about that part of my life and my intimacy and my body and so maybe that's why but I just have an immediate knee jerk no and I turn down so many jobs because they involve sex scenes and nudity and I'm like nope I don't want to do it it's not worth it for me it's too triggering and traumatizing so no

I would not consider nudity. But if you want to, if you're an actor who wrote that in or is listening to this, you should fucking go for it. If you're comfortable with your body and your sexuality, etc., do your thing. I'm sure it's going to be bloody glorious.

Someone else asked me if I'd consider doing OnlyFans. You know what? There's a part of me that's a bit like, people are making 300 grand off of just showing their feet on OnlyFans. Do I show my feet on OnlyFans? I have horrible feet. I don't know why people like them. They're doing okay on WikiFeet, apparently, I heard. But I... Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's like...

Not no. Not no. Just haven't figured out the thing that I would do that wasn't sex. I think there's loads of ways you could use OnlyFans that isn't straight up nudity and sex. Maybe it's my feet. Maybe I'll start my own sexy platform called OnlyFeet.

And now that this has gone out there and I haven't done it yet, now fucking one of you is going to do it. So good luck to you. Please give me a small percentage for having given you that amazing idea. Maybe Only Feet is actually the way. Holy shit. Guys, when I finish this recording, I'm going to buy the domain for Only Feet. Fuck you all. Okay, so next question. Someone says, how do I become a feminist that actually likes men? Resentment isn't good for my soul. Okay, I...

I understand why some people resent men so much that they think that they hate all men. But I will say that that is not a great way to live. We coexist with men. They are also half the population and so many of them are so great. And it's not...

their intention to make the world worse for us. A lot of them don't do a lot to make the world better for us, but some of them would really like to and don't know how. We also have to take into account that just in the way that we have been brainwashed and damaged by the patriarchy, so have they. They are victims as well. I know that that's hard to see because we are bigger victims and we go through more shit, but also there are so many ways in which men are brutalized in this society that doesn't really get talked about. We just kind of take it for granted and

It is incredibly sad and I don't think us pushing them further away is going to make this situation between us any better. You know, when we push anyone into the shadows, they just end up on the internet and there's just so much terror and misinformation on there. And so I would rather call men in and have men be a part of the conversation and to figure out what happened to men. What is happening to men? What is being done to men that is leading to the fucking chaos of men's behavior?

I think that is at least my philosophy going forward. I don't believe in misandry. I don't consider it any different to misogyny. And so while I understand and I'm not demonizing a resentment, it's completely fair, I don't think the way forward is pushing men further away from ourselves. I think in history, when we look back,

It has always been the oppressor relenting and allowing the oppressed in and to have more rights. The oppressed have obviously had to fight for those rights, but ultimately we rely upon the empathy and the lenience of the fucking oppressor.

I also think men can be absolutely wonderful. And some of my favorite people and collaborators, my boyfriend is a man. I fucking love the shit out of him. I think he's a really, really good person. He really loves women and almost prefers the company of women and works almost entirely with women. And so there are so many great people out there. In the same way that we don't want them to cast us with just a kind of sweeping statement,

I think that we should afford them the opportunity to still be individuals and try to encourage them and motivate them to help us make the world a safer place. I know that's an annoying answer. I'm sorry. That is just how I feel. And it's also been from my experience what works better.

And I hope that you find some lovely men in your life that make it easier for you to see men as the multifaceted, vulnerable human beings that they are, who have also been completely fucked over by our entirely fucked society. Remember, a lot of them have just been born into the cultures that they are in and they don't know any better. And if they did, they almost certainly wouldn't do the things that they do and treat us the way that they treat us. So,

While I know a not all men is irritating and loathsome and should be banned in a feminist space, I do think it's really important because I do want us to come together. And I think that's how we become a happier, healthier world. I think a lot of what we're seeing with men is the fact that they think they're

that they are becoming redundant because they think their only purpose in this world is to be our protector and our provider. And that's kind of going away as women's independence increases, which is why there's so much warfare against women's independence, like taking away our ability to have abortions or seeing what's happening in Afghanistan where women aren't allowed to even speak or

or sing in public, or even show their eyes. They're completely covered head to toe. All of these things scream that there is a terror of women's independence because women might not need men.

But if we looked at the relationships between men and women as beyond procreation and saw them as collaborators and co-conspirators, I think that we would see less fear in men. But currently, they're not seen to have very much value beyond being the one in charge and the one protecting us. And who are they protecting us from? Fucking other men.

So I think we just need a more holistic and healing and hopeful approach towards men personally. And that takes a bit of time and it also takes a bit of meeting men who restore that faith in you. You know, I'm able to have this faith in men because I have an amazing big brother and I have amazing male friends. So I think it's time for you to start looking for those men.

And I hope you find them because some of them can be wonderful. And I'm really sorry for whatever has happened to you at the hands of men that has made you feel this way. I do not in any way hope to diminish that by saying what I'm saying. And I'm not criticizing you. I just hope for a more unifying world. Okay, someone said, when do I stop caring about how my body looks? Oh, mate.

It's really hard to expect anyone to master that at any age of any gender from any background because we are in a world that is so obsessed with it. I think the only thing I'm, you know, I think that's quite a high bar to set for yourself. And I choose not to set high bars for myself. I just do everything in baby steps. And so what I personally am trying to do is practice a bit of neutrality, which is that I don't hate it and I don't love it. I'm just trying not to give a shit about it.

and not having loads of full-length mirrors around and not having lots of mirrors full stop around i do my makeup in a tiny little handheld compact i try not to take loads of selfies i try not to see constant images of us so we're not supposed to see this many fucking images of ourselves we're not supposed to be looking at ourselves and thinking about ourselves all the fucking time i find it very very toxic and overwhelming and so that has helped me as well as

I have chosen to look at beauty standards and behavioral standards for women as a form of required obedience. And doing so has revolutionized my brain because now whenever I don't

meet those standards or don't try to meet those standards, I get to enjoy it as a little bit of my own personal feminist anarchy because I'm not being obedient and I quite enjoy that. I enjoy the fact that I'm letting my face age naturally. I enjoy the fact that I'm going to have wrinkles. I'm enjoying the fact that things are starting to sag. I enjoy the fact that my arms are super flabby and I love flapping them around on camera or on Instagram or wherever I can. I

I like the fact that I'm wobbly now. I like how much cellulite I have. I never used to feel this way. But now, because I've reframed it as being disobedient, it feels empowering as fucking fuck.

And so, listen, I enjoy makeup. I enjoy makeup in the same way that I enjoy clothes. I like seeing different versions of myself. But I am never going to use it to try and cover up my whole face. I'm going to use it to celebrate and make a little party on my face the way that David Bowie or Prince did. I like accentuating things. But my whole approach to my aesthetic is...

is now just about whatever I feel like that day. It's never what anyone else expects me to be. I'm just so fucking sick of it. It's taken up so much of my time. It has cost me so much of my happiness and turned me into such a boring fucking person. And I believe that that is by design. I think they try to force us to become obsessed with these things so that we won't work on things that actually really matter, like our long-term happiness, our long-term health, our long-term plan for our lives.

And so I'm just not interested. I really would like to try my best to resist all of that. And I'm sure that I will have momentary lapses and I'm sure I will fall victim to the...

the hazing that we receive around beauty standards and on our natural faces and bodies. I'm in an industry that really cares about the way that I look. I'm sure that I'll lose opportunities for aging naturally, and I'm sure I'll lose opportunities for not having the body of a gorgeous 21-year-old stripper, but so be it then. Fine. Then I won't work as much. But I would rather

live happily as myself, then have to live up to these airbrushed, nonsense, false, fickle, ever-changing beauty standards.

A part of why we feel this need to be so obedient is like a deep, deep anthropological instinct of doing whatever you can to fit in so that you won't be left behind by the group. But given that this shit is a cycle and my body in my own lifetime and my face has just gone in and out of fashion, in and out of fashion, we want an ass, we don't want an ass, we want an ass, we don't want an ass, we want tits, we don't want tits.

All of it. We want a round face. We want a plump face. We want filler. No, we want a skinny face. We want a gaunt face. We want a heroin chic face. We can't make up our mind. Long hair, short hair. Long hair, short hair. Everyone.

is just being bombarded with constant contradictions and constant changes. There's just no way that men would be handed out a dossier every three to five years of this is what you have to look like now, get whatever surgery or take whatever injections or do whatever painful, horrific, long-lasting damage thing you have to do to meet the standard before it changes again. And then now you have to do other really expensive, painful things to make that new standard. Men would tell us to go fuck ourselves.

And so, like I said, I consider it my own personal internal revolution. Maybe you can look at it the same way. And let's not set ourselves standards for perfectly loving our bodies or perfectly not caring about anything and being totally immune. You're a human being who is living in this world. You have to give yourself some space for fallibility and for peace.

The ability to feel hurt or to feel afraid or to feel left behind. That's all okay. But just try to find your own inner rebellion around this shit and know that ultimately it doesn't matter. The most important thing you can do is just look after your body.

When you're earning your degree, the right support can make a difference. That's why at Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, including your dedicated academic coach, who's available every step of the way. Whether you're working toward a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, you can learn confidently knowing you'll get the help you need. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University.

Learn more at capella.edu. Speaking of our older bodies, someone's written in, I struggle with working out, but I want to aid gracefully. What motivated you to work out? I don't totally understand that question because I don't know how aging gracefully coincides in any way with or like contradicts working out. So...

Maybe you're worried that you're going to look too athletic for an older person. I don't know. What I will say is what motivates me to work out is the fact that I have very poor bone density from years of starving myself. So now I don't have a fucking choice.

And we're all going to struggle with our bone density, especially people who are going to go through the menopause. That's going to really challenge your bone density. But any of you who have been chronically dieting or not eating enough nutrients or maybe didn't get enough vitamin D, there's all kinds of different reasons. Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, different symptoms.

autoimmune conditions all can lead to compromised bone density. I exercise now in the same way that I brush my teeth. It is so that I don't have to go to the dentist and so that I don't have to go to the doctor. I now understand fully that exercising is something I am doing purely for my old lady body. And I want my bones to be stronger. I want to have, you know, I've got a condition called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, which means I dislocate all the time and I feel as though if I had stronger muscles, I

built around my joints, that then they wouldn't slip around all the time. That might be shitty science, but it's good to motivate me. I just want to be strong. I don't ever want to be skinny ever again. That is no shade to anyone who has a naturally skinny body or a not naturally skinny body. I just personally no longer crave that aesthetic. I really crave just the feeling of knowing I'm strong, I'm solid. If someone fucks with me, I could kick

the shit out of them a little bit, even when I'm 80. I just want to feel in control of my body. I don't ever want to feel just tiny and feeble again. Next question, quite shocking. My mother keeps calling me fat and doesn't want to talk with me at all because of that. What should I do? I think you should stop trying to talk to your fucking mother. I know she's your mother and I know that's really hard and I know that that's really sad, but right now she needs to get her shit out

in check. You should not have to do anything. She should go to therapy and work on her fucking self and what it is that makes her so obsessed with your body that she can't see the human being inside, the human being that she created with her body. She's got some issues and I'm trying to hold back my rage towards her right now because I don't know her and that's your mum and I'm trying to be respectful, but fuck me.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this. This is not your problem. This is not your shit to deal with. This is her shit that she's bleeding all over you. I think it would probably be good for you to have a little bit of a break from your mum and she can go and sort herself out. And I don't think you should give her access back to you until she has sorted herself out because this is unacceptable.

You do not have to change your body to be accepted as a human being by someone, especially not your mother. There's no one. No, there's no one. There's no one who you should have to lose weight for for them to be able to talk to you. That is absolute insane horseshit. So I'm very, very sorry. I think it's actually a blessing in disguise that she doesn't want to talk to you because God knows what kind of shit she's been saying to you when she was talking to you.

I can't imagine the kind of things that you have had to hear and tolerate about yourself and about bigger bodies. Fuck that. My God, I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight. I'm going to be so pissed about that one. But yeah, she's not talking to you. No, no, no. You're not talking to her. She is on fucking notice until she sorts her shit out.

As a fashion fan with a past of disordered eating, how do you reconcile with the modelling industry? I despair of the modelling industry. The only reason I go and participate at Fashion Week is partially because I love the clothes and the art, but mostly because I like to use all of those runways as an opportunity to say, "Hey guys, it's great that we have racial diversity now, but where are the people with different bodies at? Where are they? Where have they gone? We had them for a minute."

about six of them and now they've all disappeared. I can't believe how thin everyone was at Fashion Month. It was really, really terrifying and I used every single opportunity I had of every interview to bring it up and I talked about it on Instagram and the thing is is that

There's an instinct not to go because you feel like you're kind of endorsing it when you go. But also, I've been the activist that's tried to have the conversation from outside and no one listens to you and then they just call you bitter and jealous. And so going right into the belly of the beast and then saying it there feels at least slightly more powerful. You let me know if you think what I'm doing is helpful or effective, but...

I kind of feel like I need to be there to be able to see it for myself and say it there and then, rather than just commentate on it from the outside, which doesn't do anything because they don't fucking care. They know how we feel. They don't care. They don't give a shit. So we're going to have to make them give a shit together. And those of us on the inside who care about this are just going to have to step up and put ourselves out there. And hopefully the public will support us. And that is just that. But it is important.

It's not hard for me to see that aesthetic anymore. I just feel very sad when I see it because I can see how tired the girls look coming down the runway. They look exhausted in a way I've not seen in years. They look like they're going to faint at the end of that runway. They don't look happy. They don't look strong. They don't look confident. They literally look like they're going to pass out. So whatever this is, it's not sustainable. It's not going to last. We're just, again, as I said earlier, we're in cycles. We're going to come round and round again. At some point, everyone's going to come off the weight loss injections.

And then curves are going to suddenly be back in fashion because everyone's gained weight and they have to make the clothes bigger. And then everyone will get smaller again because a new fad will come in and then we'll get bigger again and so on and so forth.

The 20s, everyone was skinny. The 50s, everyone was curvy. The 70s, everyone was fucking skinny again. I don't know, the 80s, maybe we got curvy again. And then the 90s, we were thin again. And then the noughties, we were big again. It's just round and round and round and round and round. I've just decided to stay exactly as I am and continue to go in and out of fashion. But there is a problem. And if you are finding it triggering, then I would stay away from any accounts that push that image at you. Because fuck that.

Next question. Is it difficult to maintain a cool girl persona while being a loud feminist? I wouldn't know because I've never been a cool girl and I have never managed to have a cool girl persona. And so I'm afraid if you are a cool girl, well done to you. But I can't give you any advice. I am just a loud feminist and I personally think that's really cool. Even though I know I'm not cool and I know I'm a massive nerd, I think it's cool to be badass.

passionate about something and to not be afraid of what other people think about your passion about that thing. I don't even know what the cool girl persona is and I feel like ultimately it was written by a man. I really do. I think it was written by a man who doesn't want to hear women speak, who wants women to be silent and mysterious and smoking so that she won't have an appetite to eat, so that she'll be skinny and then she'll be too weak to run away from him. I

I really, really don't understand the allure of a cool girl or a cool boy. I've always found cool people, the idea of the quintessential cliche of what is cool, which is kind of minimal and mysterious. I've always found those people really fucking annoying and boring at a party. I don't want to talk to them. I never want to be sat next to them at a wedding. Oh my God.

I really just prefer the sort of crazy chatty Cathy who is themselves and is authentic and has silly hobbies and entertaining stories. So I don't know if I would even aspire to a cool girl persona if I were you. All the people I've met in this industry who've been labeled as cool girls are.

either suck or they're not saying anything because they don't actually have anything to say. And it's all the weirdo girls and boys who have been really, really fun to get to know. So just beware. Beware of the cool girl persona. Let's question where in Hollywood that kind of came from because it kind of was Hollywood, wasn't it? And that's a time where all women were being written by insecure men. So I don't know. I'm dubious about it.

I don't know if you can do both at the same time. I think being a cool girl relies on not being loud about anything. And so I would personally rather just be a loud ranting feminist. Someone's asked me, do I agree that dogs are better than people? Yes. Someone else has asked me, do guys need to pay on the first date?

I have no idea. I've never given a shit. I paid for all my first few dates with my boyfriend. I thought he didn't have any money because I had not heard of his music before. And then once I found out he did have money, we went half and that was fine. And now whoever picks up the bill picks up the bill and it's not a big deal. So I don't know. It's not something that I have ever felt very strongly about. I don't want to pay half.

uh, from a kind of feminist standpoint, I want to pay half because we're both eating and we both are probably earning around the same. Um, the only time I ever think that it is a must for someone to pay rather than someone else is if you are a higher earner and you are recommending a much fancier place, then I think it is on you to pay the majority or all of that bill. So if I want to go to a restaurant that a friend of mine who works in forest school, uh,

can't afford to go to and I really want to go to that restaurant then I will either pick up the check or if she really wants to contribute I will let her pay what she would have paid at the kind of restaurant that she would have wanted to go eat which is about 10 quid and I will pay the rest but it is very important that that dynamic so if you're going on a date with someone who's recommending somewhere really fucking expensive they can fucking pay but other than that I don't care someone's written in

And I wonder if it's my boyfriend who's written this in. How can a boyfriend help you when he sees you turn into a monster before your period? Um...

It's hard. It's hard. It's very, very hard for you to know how to help someone before their period because they rarely know how to help themselves. I have an app that tells me that my period's due in a few days just to give me a heads up that I might start to become a little bit crazy. I would say the best way to help the monster that the person you love becomes before their period is just to ask them what they need and those needs are going to keep changing and just be very

very quiet and very helpful because they can't help it. We can't help it. I can't fucking help it. I just want to cry and I want to cuddle, but I also don't want to be touched, but I do want to be touched. And I want to eat chocolate and I want to eat crisps and I want them now. And I feel so hot and then I feel so cold and then I feel so hot and then I feel so cold and then my boobs are hurting. And it's just a maddening few days before my period. And I really just need either to be left the fuck alone or to be given some support.

That's all I need. I don't need anything more. I don't need you to make it about you. I'm on a roller coaster with my hormones that I'm trying to survive without killing anyone. And I really just need either a little help or a little peace. So that's what you can do. Someone asked me what Pam Anderson smells like. She smells like money, dignity and grace. She was so graceful. I got to meet her at the Glamour Woman of the Year Awards, where I also won an award alongside Pam.

Pretty cool. And I was sitting at a table with her and she was incredibly sweet, very, very, very shy. And clearly someone who I think is not accustomed to the world taking her seriously. She seemed very self-deprecating and very unaware of the icon.

that she is. And I don't think she could totally understand why we're all so excited to be at the table with her. Because for so long, the world is so misogynist and turned her into a joke. And we do not see her as a joke. We see her as a fucking legend. And as an incredible survivor of...

of a pylon of misogyny that is unlike almost anything we've ever seen. So I felt very lucky to meet her. She was incredibly gracious and very, very, very chill and sweet. And I hope that she has the most amazing renaissance in her career because she deserves it. That woman has been put through so much and we are so lucky that she's still here.

Next question, ethical porn. Is this something you've researched? Any recommendations? You know what? I actually do have a recommendation. Make Love, Not Porn by Cindy Gallop. It's a platform where you can find videos of intimacy.

and they aren't absolutely horrific and terrifying towards women. It is women-owned, it is women-led, and a lot of the pornography on there or other videos, the content on there, I guess I would say, is directed by women and it's all with consent and it is all human eyes monitoring what goes on the platform so that nothing that shouldn't be on there is on there. It's anti-punishment and cruelty towards women. It's pro-consent.

It's pro-porn and pro-sex and pro-knowing the difference. And it's, I'd say, the best pornography that you can find out there. And it's not just women who are watching it. It's loads and loads and loads of men who say that they've been looking for content like this for ages and that they don't find the shocking, violent, horrific stuff that you see on places like Pornhub very arousing. And that's quite reassuring. They don't find it erotic because it's not erotic. It's designed to shock.

more than arouse. And this website is designed to actually arouse and make consent sexy and make intimacy erotic and sexy and make everyone feel empowered. And it shows real people with real bodies and normal dick sizes and normal vaginas and breasts and all of that. And so it's really

reassuring that Cindy Gallop exists I have actually invested in her company because she's now starting a new initiative which is all about sex education by real sex educators and psychotherapists and it's all age appropriate so if a kid wants to learn things about sex and there's age appropriate programs

content for them and then if a sex education teacher needs information on how to talk to kids about sex there's information for that teacher there's information for parents there's information for a teenager that wants to learn something about sex or masturbation there's age appropriate content for them to be able to

learn from someone whose job it is to educate as to what they should know, what they should be wary of, things that they don't need to worry about, things that they do need to worry about, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I love the way that her brain works. I love how shameless she is. She has an episode on this podcast, actually, I think from last year. Just look up Cindy Gallop, Make Love Not Porn on this podcast and you will find her unbelievable

unbelievably empowering and emboldening chat about sex, about sex at an older age, and about pornography and sexual content on the internet. She's a force, and I will follow her into the sun.

And lastly, who would be dream dinner party guests if you got to choose? You know what? Genuinely, genuinely, I think it would be all of you. I would love to go and sit down at a massive fuck-off dinner with all of you and we could all eat carbs together in peace and freedom and have loads of laughs and talk about all the things that we think and we feel. I've met most celebrities now and I...

I really, I don't see what all the fuss is about. I know they're all really talented and really attractive and really cool, but I'm yet to have had as many interesting interactions with them as I have with you, even just over DM and all the letters that you write me. So I guess you are my dream dinner party guests, genuinely. And I hope that we do get to meet. I've met so many of you over the years and you've said the loveliest things to me about this podcast.

And I'm not going to say more about that right now because I'm going to cry and I'll leave that for the last episode in the coming months.

And as I said, you'll be able to find me on Substack, the writing platform, and you'll be able to find me on Instagram. And I will find a way to bring this podcast back one day. And I'll make sure that the episodes that round out this year are strong and memorable and made for you with you in mind. So do keep letting me know who you want me to talk to before I go. And thank you for listening today. And...

Love you lots and lots and lots. Take care. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode. I Weigh With Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Erin Finnegan, Kimmy Gregory and Amelia Chapelot. And the beautiful music that you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. And if you haven't already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It's such a great way to show your support and helps me out massively.

And lastly, at IWeigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. Please email us a voice recording sharing what you weigh at iweighpodcast at gmail.com. At Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You will receive support from people who are concerned about your success. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Visit capella.edu.