Emma Grede, Mellody Hobson & Angela Ahrendts on inclusive leadership
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When you see a founder that's able to build a business, create an infrastructure, employ people, put their kids through school, you know, that to me is what this is all about. That's Emma Greed, the co-founder of the Kardashian fashion brand Good American. Emma shares some stellar lessons from her entrepreneurial successes with us in this episode. And later on, we hear from Melody Hobson, the president of Ariel Investments and former DreamWorks chair,

weighs in on DEI efforts, which, as you may have noticed, have been in the news of late. There's this sense that it is a zero-sum game in this society, that if someone's winning, someone else is losing. I do not prescribe to that. Our economy and our society has been built on the fact that the pie keeps getting bigger. And the greatness of America is that you had this middle class and others who could share in that over time.

We haven't made just how you do it.

This is Masters of Scale. I'm your host, Jeff Berman. One of my favorite parts of our annual Masters of Scale Summit is when we get to witness incredible minds together on our stage. This week, we're sharing two of those conversations, both led by Angela Ahrens. Angela's impressive career includes roles as CEO of Burberry and Senior Vice President of Apple.

In this first segment, she talks with Emma Greed. Emma is the CEO and co-founder of the inclusive apparel brand Good American. She's also a founding partner in Skims and creator of the 15% Pledge. Let's head to the stage to hear Angela and Emma's conversation. I think what I love the most about Emma, which is why I agreed to do this, is because this is a founder, partner, investor conversation.

an incredible visionary. And I won't make her tell you how old she is because I think she's about half my age. But it's absolutely. So let's start with founder, because in 2016, you revolutionized the fashion industry.

by coming up with an incredible, good American, an incredible all-inclusive concept. So did you ever imagine that it would ignite such a powerful shift? It started so many things that happened. And did you think that would happen? And then what surprised you the most after the fact?

The short answer is no, I didn't. And I have to be honest because, you know, my background was actually, I had an agency. And so for a long time, I was a very frustrated consultant that kind of worked in this, you know, first generation of talent and brand partnerships. So I ran this beautiful agency that I started and I loved my job. And I really kind of, you know, crafted this company that sat at the intersection of

of entertainment and brand. And it was that first generation stuff where, you know, you'd see Natalie Portman as the face of Dior or Tom Brady as the face of Hertz. And I was there for that. And as that, you know, business progressed, what happened is I became known as the go-to girl for startups when they were looking for a

talent to take some equity in their company. And after doing a few of those deals very successfully, you know, I was lucky enough to start Good American and I've started some other businesses in that space. And they've been incredibly successful, way beyond anything that I or my partners honestly imagined. And I think it's really interesting because honestly, I think we're just

on the crest of a wave. I think in the next five years, we're going to see hundreds of talent or influencer or creative billionaires. And, you know, I still look at it as an almost imperfect model, what I do, right? Because nobody follows The Rock to see, you know, him advertise tequila. You know, you follow him because you love him. And he also can't, you know, authentically describe

speak to his audience if he is always talking about his brand projects. So I'm really interested in the future of my business, how you start to see talent, you know, own their data, become the network. And I honestly, I'm always looking at the future. I'm always going forward and I start to think about what's interesting to me next.

fixed more than anything. But I'm going to stay on founder for a second. Say, stay on founder. Because you also, but as a founder too, you had to find investors. Oh yes, I did. Ain't it the truth. So again, you've got a lot of founders in the room. So any advice on when you're pitching a new concept that nobody's ever done before?

And you know it's a big opportunity. Yeah, I mean, don't listen maybe to what they say. You know, I had come from a background where I wasn't an apparel person. I wasn't a founder for the audience that I went out to, right? When you have an agency, you're not necessarily who people are looking at to, you know, give millions of dollars to start a new brand that they have no experience.

But I had a very strong instinctive feeling about what was needed and where the industry and the business was going. And that came from a personal need. And I was very, very clear about that. And I think all I could say is,

I have a rule that I don't take investors that I wouldn't want to have a drink with, that I don't want to spend time with, because you end up in these relationships that are really complex. They hopefully go on for years and years and years. And I did it all wrong the first and second time around.

I'd love to say I learned the first time, but I didn't. And so I think that I'm at that point now where once you've had a little bit of success, you can be a little bit more choosy. But I do just keep that simple rule. And I think about that for everyone I come across. If you work with me or for me, if you're coming into one of my companies, you need to understand, you need to be along for the ride and the mission. And you really need to believe in what it is that I want to do. And so I think it's been a good rule for me. So it's probably similar because you're also partners.

You've got a portfolio of businesses. You have a tremendous amount of partners. And I read somewhere where you assess a partner by authenticity. And so not dissimilar as you're talking about investors. Is there any other unique attributes you look in for partners?

I honestly, I think about people that want to go on a journey because what I've learned is that nothing that I've done has had a quick result. It looks like that and it may appear that way if you look at Instagram or whatever. But I think that I choose my partners very carefully and I also choose my partners based on my own weaknesses, you know.

And I think that's the same way I think about building teams. I'm very acutely aware of where I'm good. And I think, you know, I spend an enormous amount of my time hiring because I know that bringing the right people into the right culture is what building a business is all about. And nothing happens.

I get called like self-made all the time. And I think, God, I'm not self-made because if you knew the hundreds of people that work around me every single day. So I think about investors, partners, team building, all is the same. And I say that because I really do think the most important part of my role

aside from thinking about product development and innovation, is really like honing in on who are the right people that I'm going to do this with and who do I want to spend that amount of time with, quite honestly, because you've got to be in it for the long run. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think that's why, you know, in the press they call you a savvy investor. And no, but I love that. And I love the fact that you've been a founder for

you've got a tremendous amount of partners, but now you're investing and you've always invested a little, but I'm sure at your scale now, you're making some big bets. And I think, you know, when you, you have an ethos. Yeah. And so take us on the journey just a little bit from an investor standpoint on kind of how you looked at it when you started out. And now at this stage, how do you think of investing and what's important to you? Well, you know, when you start out, your deal flows bad, right? So

So people would come to me and I had a little bit of money and I would just, you know, do that gut instinct thing. I think the further I've gone on in my career, my entrepreneurial journey as a black woman, specifically in this country, because I came here just I'm English and I came here seven years ago. There is this sense of responsibility about leaving the door open. Right. And about investing in people that might not otherwise get the opportunity. I left school when I was 15.

I'm not on paper someone that is, you know, worth taking a bet of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And so there's a part of me that has a sense of responsibility about who fits the mould of people that make sense for me to invest in. But also, you know, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't as opportunistic as anyone. I try to do what I know, but I've done a lot of things that I feel a sense of, like, if not me, then who? And that really is my guiding principle. Mm-hmm.

And you're incredibly instinctual, though. Yes. I mean, I think in everything you do, where does that come from? And how do you hone that? Oh,

I don't know. I think that comes from the streets, you know. I don't know what else to say. But, you know, when you grow up in East London and you grow up how I did, you get this sense of instincts by just trying to keep yourself safe and ready. Right. And there's a part of you that is always looking for opportunities and always looking to take advantage of a situation. And I don't think that that is different from how I think about things today. Maybe I've...

You know, I've molded that a little bit into trying to solve problems and specifically like women's related issues. But at the end of the day, I get a hunch, I get a feeling, I catch a vibe and I go for what I think is going to be right. Incredible. And is that how the 15% pledge came about?

Well, you know, I'd love to take full credit. Tell them what it is first. Well, the 15% Pledge is a social justice initiative. And it was actually started by who became a dear friend of mine, a girl called Aurora James. And it was essentially in the... We love Aurora. Everybody loves Aurora. But it was essentially started in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, when so many brands and so many people and so many prominent individuals were coming to protest

pretty much anyone who was black and in a position of power saying, what should I do? You know, how can we help? And Aurora's point of view was you can help in a really meaningful way. You can actually put your money where your mouth is. And the premise of it is that black people make up about

15% of the population of this country. And we're asking brands and retailers all over the country to dedicate 15% of their annual spends towards black-owned brands. And really at the root of that, it's about demystifying the idea of who gets to be successful, who gets to have a business. Because half the time, and I really believe this in my core, institutions, brands are not racist, right? It's just

What do they know? What are those buying and merchandise departments come in contact with? Who do they know? Where do they find their ideas? And so what we're doing is saying that, you know, black brands aren't just for black people. In fact, if you make an amazing lotion, then anybody can use that. And so the idea is about really thinking about

how you usher in newness, how you can create, you know, new businesses in places that are maybe a little bit stale and not thinking about in that right way. And I think that pretty much anyone can get behind the idea of supporting small American businesses. And at the heart of the pledge, that's what we're doing every single day. Amazing. But, you know, you also have some of the most incredible minds in this room and founders and visionaries, et cetera. So how can they help?

You know, there's so many ways that you can help. And I think that in this moment in time when D, E and I is like a dirty word or a dirty bunch of words, I think it's really about thinking what kind of world do we want to live in and how do we make incredible companies that we can be proud of? And I think at this point in my career, of course, I'm obsessed with making amazing companies and amazing companies are made of amazing profits.

but they're also made of doing things that whether the time is right, you know the notion is right. And so I am always,

obsessed with bringing people on this journey. And I think that one of the things that I've seen, we've created a $14 billion pipeline of opportunity for Brackoan brands in this country. But the other side of things that we've done is created amazing profit and revenue streams for all of these businesses that have taken the pledge. So to me, it's just a great business proposition. It's like, how do you do more? How do you better serve your customer? And that's what this is all about. This is about infiltrating customers and communities that perhaps are overlooked

And I think it just makes so much sense. So we want more and more brands to take the pledge. And I've been so happy with the results and the impact because, you know, the pledge has been going for what, three and a half, like nearly four years now. And there are 750 brands on the shelves of everything.

Sephora and Nordstrom and Macy's and Bloomingdale's and everywhere else that just weren't there before. So when you see that impact, when you see a founder that's able to build a business, create an infrastructure, employ people, put their kids through school, you know, that to me is what this is all about. It's about taking what you know and taking your power and taking something that you do uniquely well and being able to say, okay, let's like pay this idea forward. And if it's a

business proposition is just a win-win all round. Absolutely. Well, and I think what you're sharing with a lot of founders and people in businesses, I've always said the same thing. You know, the focus is always on the P&L. Yes, it is. And why can't it be, why shouldn't there be a P&I? Why shouldn't we focus on the people and the impact they're making first? Because that's really what drives the P&L. 100%. Yes, it does. And so I think that, you know, the challenge is, as they're running and starting businesses, is what is their

You know, you what is I call her a social visionary because who comes up with that? And 14 billion later. No, but it's absolutely incredible. So using your instincts and all of the things we just talked about. But I just think that in the future, it is a company's responsibility. And the larger the company, the larger the responsibility. A hundred percent. Just like us as individuals. Right. Absolutely.

So is there any, since you are such a savvy investor, is there anything, any sectors, any areas that you're looking at now that excite you? You know, what I'm obsessed with right now is women's sports. Like, that's all I can think about.

obsessed. But, you know, I think about what I can do. You know, I always think about there being a time and a moment in culture when there are things that customers are willing to accept. Right. And we just happen to be at this incredible infliction point for women's sports. I've been watching women's sports for years. I live around the corner from the, you know, UCLA campus. And so women's basketball was a big thing. I take my kids to

But again, it's about like, when is what you do ready to be accepted? And so I love this idea of like timing and culture aligning beautifully with what it happens, what I happen to be good at. And so that's a space that I'm interested in. Amazing. Any others? No, well, I mean, listen, I don't do what I don't know. I'm not here for AI because like, that's not my space. I'll let like other people in the room do it and I'll catch on like too late, you know. Do what you know, let's be fair.

And then, again, because you are a founder and a partner and an investor and a social visionary, how do you think, and I would also argue that you're probably an incredible marketer. So, again, it's a very important part when you're launching a business and you're scaling a business. How do you think of marketing in this day and age? Well, you know, I think I am a marketeer first and foremost, right? That's what I know. That's what I understand. That's why I've built the businesses that I have. And what I can tell you is that...

whatever worked last year is not working now. That's for sure, right? It's like there's no arbitrage in social media anymore. And I think for a long time, I built these very digitally native businesses that relied on, you know, whether it was Facebook in the beginning and then moving on to Instagram and then TikTok for like 25 seconds. That time is over. It's done. And the only thing that we can guarantee is that meeting customers where they're at, having a business that solves a real problem and serves a real purpose, that's

That's the only continued way that you can connect with customers. And when I think about the things that have really shifted my business, it's the initiatives, frankly, that I didn't think about. Becoming B Corp certified was a turning point in Good American. And honestly, I'd love to sit here and say, I thought it was a really important initiative. I didn't. It was a cost nightmare and a time suck. It was like a complete, I just thought, what a distraction for a business that's two years old. However, my team really understood the importance of it. And it did two things.

Number one, becoming B Corp certified taught me a lot. But for that group of team members that really spearheaded the movement, you know, they are probably the most loyal group of people that I've had in any company I've ever started. But they're the ones that are the boundary pushers and they're coming up with everything that is driving the company forward. And then number

You look at the customers because those team members were smart enough to bring customers and the community along on the journey. What happened is that we created this like cohort of customers. I mean, they literally have their own data segment in my business. It's like we call them the B-Corp Bs. And it's so crazy what happened within those two things that you ended up with this whole

unbelievable team mentality and this group of customers that valued it so beyond anything else that it became the reason to come into this brand and make that choice over that one. And so it's not always the things that you think that are really going to move the needle. And from a marketing point of view, we never thought about B Corp in that way. It was like, how can we clean up what is otherwise a very dirty, pollution-inducing business?

But it was something that actually I look at it now and it future-proofed our business in so many ways. And so it's something that I feel very proud about. Yeah, absolutely incredible. So final question. You've started all these digital native businesses, but you have a pledge.

That says get 15% on the shelves. So how do you think about physical retail in the future? Oh, I am. I mean, I'm the most physical. I'm opening about a store a month at the moment. And that is really doing so much for our businesses because people are craving in real life experience, they're craving community. And when you ultimately are in the business that I am, which is apparel, right, whether however you want to dress it up,

people want to touch and they want to feel. But more than that, they want the in-person interaction. And I'm so happy that we didn't think about retail as an afterthought, right? There is so much value to traditional bricks and mortar. There's so much value actually to partners in wholesale. And so I think that anyone starting a business to feel like, you know, in the beginning, you have to be so focused in one lane actually ends up

you know, stopping you a little bit, right? I just say, go, like go into the channels that make most sense for your customers and customers are everywhere. If you ignore anything, it will really stifle your growth. So I'm happy that I didn't do that. So listen to your customers.

Yeah, and you have to, you know, not all customers are sitting online waiting to discover your new amazing thing, right? You have to catch a customer where they are. And if that happens to be because they're in Nordstrom shopping for something else and they happen across your brand, then be there, right? Don't be a snob about it because I don't think that's how customers think and it's not how they discover. And yeah, I mean, that is what has worked. That is what has given me the value and the valuations, quite frankly, that those companies have today.

Yeah, well, you're incredibly dynamic. You're agile. You're flexible. You use your instincts. You look forward. But any other advice for this incredible, brilliant group of people that you get? You know, it's so funny because I always get asked for advice and I get asked for like leadership ethos. And I feel like, you know, as a 16-year-old school leaver, for me to give this room advice feels like wah-wah. Yeah.

You know, it's like I missed that day at school. Sorry. It's the truth. I think what I know to be true is that as a person that has teams of hundreds and hundreds of people, what do people really want, right? And we're in a time when it's very difficult to...

tell the truth. It's very difficult. Like we talk about authenticity a lot and I don't know that that is where the world is at right now. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me. What I try to do is tell the truth. And what I try to do is be really honest about my expectations, what I need from people, where we're going. And that,

seems so basic, but it's really served me incredibly well. And that means that, you know, when people want to come to work three days a week, that's cool, but that's just not for me. That's not the business that I run. It means that when people need to see themselves in a certain way, like you're going to get the truth and honesty from me. And it also means that, you know, we're going on a journey together and I'm going to be very open and sharing about what that means. And I think as a founder, just being honest

who you are and being incredibly honest has just served me really well. And it isn't really made for corporate America. It isn't what my HR and people department like the most about me, quite honestly. They're like, shut up, don't say that. And I'm like, yeah, bye.

But, you know, and I do think it's what's drawn people to me. I do think it's what's enabled me to hire like the best in class people. It's very straightforward. You get what you see and nobody is in the dark ever. And I think about, you know, companies, we talk about transparency, we talk about authenticity. It's like, just tell the truth and you'll never get in trouble. Incredible. Thank you.

Still ahead, a conversation between Angela and the iconic investor Melody Hobson. They discuss Melody's mission to improve financial literacy for young people, the importance of DEI efforts, and more. We've grown exponentially since we opened 10 years ago. We initially started with, I think there were 10 of us, maybe, total, which is just completely ridiculous.

That's Jillian Field, Capital One business customer and co-founder of Union Market, a popular neighborhood market and cafe in Richmond, Virginia. With her growing success, now with 45 team members, Jillian has always kept sight of what really matters. We felt since we opened that having some sort of employee appreciation event was really important to us. Every year, Jillian holds a company-wide celebration to show her staff how vital they are to the success of Union Market.

Recently, she used points from her Capital One business card to host her employees at Busch Gardens Theme Park for a day of fun with family and friends.

We buy all of their tickets as well as their plus ones. It's a lot of fun and definitely a great team bonding experience. Capital One really has been great over the years. It's so easy. We could apply these points to supplies, masking tape and Sharpies and ticket receipt paper, but we like to retain them for our employees. That's been really important. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards.

Welcome back to Masters of Scale. You can find these and all the other incredible conversations from the Masters of Scale Summit on our YouTube channel. Next up, Angela Arntz sits down with Melody Hobson. Melody is the co-CEO and president of Arial Investments. She's also been a prominent presence on boards for companies like JPMorgan Chase and Starbucks. Her latest project is a children's book called Priceless Facts About Money.

Melody, your investment firm is called Ariel, and you co-founded the Ariel Community Academy on Chicago's South Side. And you've said that your most important investment is empowering youth in underserved communities through financial education. And you've been involved in financial literacy and curriculum for many years. Today, we're celebrating your new children's book, Priceless Facts About Money. So first off, huge congratulations. Thank you.

I learned a lot. I know it's for kids, but I learned a lot. It's incredible. So what are your earliest memories of money? And what stories from your own life did you draw from for priceless facts about money? The goal of the book is actually, and I've heard this from a lot of people, I'm using children as a gateway to adults.

I'm hoping that adults are reading this book to kids and actually learning the things that they wouldn't know. Because I literally spent four years researching this. I started working on it during COVID because I decided I was so affected by the fact that we are, as a society, not really financially literate. And I wasn't going to keep, as we say at Ariel, admiring the problem. I was going to do something about it.

What is my first memory of money? And I tell people this money was a constant conversation in my family because we did not have any. And so it was a source of great anxiety and stress. And I remember I told people I remember my first check.

which was seeing it on the wall at the grocery store where my mom had bounced a check and our name and everything was on the check. And I remember standing at the counter thinking everyone in the store knows that that's us. And I felt such shame and embarrassment. And in general, because we used to get evicted, our phone used to get disconnected, we would hide our car to keep it from getting repossessed.

And so because of those things having happened to me, I felt all this shame. And as a child, my husband says this, you have no advanced reasoning skills as a child. You don't know when something will be over. You cannot control any outcome. And so I became really burdened with this concept of money. So I don't think it's an accident I work in the financial services industry because as a child, I was desperate to understand money.

Not have a lot, understand it. And I said, if I have the knowledge, I can live a better life and not repeat the cycle that I find myself in and that my family finds itself in. So the real purpose of my life was anchored in the depravity that I often felt as a child, which ultimately, even though it didn't feel like it at the time, became this amazing gift of

And that is the reason why I'm so passionate about this idea of spreading the concepts, because I think if it could take the burden off of children, young people, even adults, that they know more and can make better decisions, that could be a real multiplier and quite powerful. And you're around a lot of young people. What do you see firsthand with them not understanding money? And how have you helped demystify it for your young daughter?

We are, as I said, I'm not saying this just to be critical. It's just a fact. As a nation, we're financially illiterate. Only 25 states in the United States actually mandate financial literacy in school. And often it's not what you think of. I don't think...

Reading a utility bill is financially literate, helpful, but I'd rather we be learning about the Dow, the Nasdaq, the S&P, the power of compounding, what is inflation. I could go on and on. And these concepts can be taught starting at a very young age. In my book, I have this idea of barter.

They say, how do you teach a three-year-old about money, a five-year-old? I said, teach them value. How do you teach them value? Say to a three or five-year-old, do you want a cupcake or Barbie? And they start to assess value like, which one is more valuable to me? Which one do I want in the moment? Which one do I want to think about? I'll have the Barbie forever, but I'll eat the cupcake. You want that kind of thought process that's happening with a small child.

And so I would say to you that I've seen time and time again the fact that we are not a financially literate society. We have tremendous anxiety about money. 77% of Americans say they feel anxious when it comes to money. That's all people. That's people of means. That's people without means. This subject is incredibly important because all of our money habits are learned from our parents. So if you are...

not great on this subject, I can tell you, you are subconsciously passing it on to your child.

The other thing is the whole concept of money, especially for children, is quite mysterious in our current modern day. And what I mean by that is today's children see money being spit out of a machine at an ATM or they see a phone or a piece of plastic as a means of payment versus when I grew up, my mother tended to use cash.

So because we don't have that finality to something that's in your wallet that runs out, children start to say things to their parents. And many of you maybe have even heard this. When the parent says, we can't afford this, they say, put it on a credit card. So they don't actually understand the cause and effect of

I'll give the last example. We're at McDonald's. We're going through the drive-thru. She got an order of French fries and they said, it's whatever it is with tax. And my daughter looks at me and she says, what is tax?

We did tax on the entire car ride. First of all, she was appalled that we work three or four months a year without any income. And she's like, literally, they don't pay you? I said, no, they pay us. But if you added it all up, now we know some of us, it's even more. But I said, you know, you work and you give this. What happens to the tax? Explaining all these things. Amazing. Well, I'm going to pull us back. When you talk about scaling financial literacy and what's at stake if we don't,

What can we do to help? So let's start off with the fact that every dollar of this is donated. This is not benefiting me personally in any way. So that's not where my energy is coming from at all. I just want to make that clear. I just want kids to have the knowledge and I actually want adults to have their knowledge too. So my goal is that you will see this book and you will say to yourself, let me think about every niece, nephew, or young person that I know, friend, family, friends, et cetera, that I should give this to that maybe it also will help the parent.

Then I would hope that you would think about we had one person in New York. They bought the book for every library in the city of New York. They gave two copies to every branch of New York Public Library, which is a great idea because libraries can't just buy books on the budgets that they have right now. Then I've had a lot of people talk about that they would buy the book for their child's school.

I can't for some reason buy it for my own child's car or give it to them because my child is too embarrassed. So she's kind of, I gave that to the library. I told her, I was like, we're going to give the book to every kid. She was like,

No. She's like, you're not doing that. So I get it. She's 11. Her name's in the book, the whole thing. She was like, no. But it's in the library. So giving the book even to the school library, I think, is very important. The other idea, the state of Maine bought the book for every elementary school student in the state. Wow.

13,000 bucks. Wow. Amazing. Every single elementary school. So just think, in Maine, it's 13,000 bucks. It's actually doable. Let's step away for a second from, like, dollars and cents. And you've also been incredibly committed to breaking down barriers by prioritizing diversity and inclusion as an investment strategy. And you've also been a staunch advocate of diversity on boards. So thank you. But...

But we've all been reading that some corporations are rolling back or pulling out of their DEI commitments. And why do you think this is? And where do we go from here? I think the black hats have been very effective. They've scared people legally.

So it started with Harvard. I really do think that that had a chilling effect on diversity in the country. They went to an elite institution and they argued a case that ultimately they won. We can all agree or disagree on what the merits of that case were, but I will tell you, I went to Princeton and I do believe I was a beneficiary of affirmative action. And I think that is better for society that I am in the seat that I am today. So I am unapologetic about it.

And I think if it hadn't existed, I wouldn't have had the same shot to go to that school. And going to that school opened a lot of doors for me after I left there. And that's just a fact. And so what I would say is right now, there is this sense that it is a zero-sum game in this society. That if someone's winning, someone else is losing. I do not prescribe to that.

Our economy and our society has been built on the fact that the pie keeps getting bigger. And the greatness of America is that you had this middle class and others who could share in that over time. Though sometimes I do believe, and I'm not saying we are perfect in any way, I think there needs to be more opportunity for people of color and women. I am 100% convinced of it because I am in the rooms where we are not. And so...

Even though people think we're taking over after you have one black president, we're not. And so there's been this effort to roll back

Because the legal argument has gotten people nervous, you have general counsels and others saying we have to be careful or you have people who actually agree and it's just convenient for them. So I think those of us who are in roles where we can continue to push and explain, every piece of data shows that diversity helps outcomes. Every piece of data. If you have like-minded people around you, you will not have barrier-breaking ideas.

You want innovation to come from different thought process, different backgrounds, different genders, sexual orientations, etc. In order to be bold and audacious. And unfortunately, some people do not agree with that. But I also think that we all have a role to play. And I will tell you, best TED talk I have ever watched or listened to in my life is hers from 10 years ago today.

And it's called Colorblind or Color Brave. And I'm telling you, spread it to everybody you know, and maybe that'll help. Thank you. You are absolutely priceless, and we are so grateful. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

I'm so grateful to both Emma Greed and Melody Hobson for sharing their wisdom with us at the Masters of Scale Summit and to Angela Arntz for leading these conversations. To find out how you can attend our 2025 summit, meet unbelievable leaders like Emma, Melody, Angela, and others, and perhaps have your mind absolutely blown. Go to mastersofscale.com slash summit.

We take great, great pride in the culture that we've built. We just saw a sizzle video from our recent team offsite and it almost brought us to tears. That's Shannon Jones, Capital One business customer and co-founder of VIRB, a rapidly growing brand experience agency that creates memorable events for companies like Airbnb, Hulu, and Amazon.

We've scaled exponentially. I mean, the company has more than doubled in size. Being super mindful of how to maintain the culture in the face of rapid growth has been very top of mind for us. For VIRB, company culture is just as important because the staff brings that energy to client relations, the key to their success. Here's VIRB's other co-founder, Yadira Harrison, highlighting a specific way that VIRB takes care of its employees.

Our holiday party, it's a one-day celebration where we all come together. We're talking about 50 to 85 people. And so it's special, but it's also expensive.

Yadira and Shannon spare no expense when it comes to team milestone celebrations, employee benefits, and holiday parties. Perks made possible with the help of their partnership with Capital One Business. The Capital One Spark Card definitely helps to offset that in a massive way. Based off of the cashback benefits, that's the benchmark of how we want to use that cashback. It's important for us to be able to do that and to make people feel appreciated. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards.

Thank you.

Our senior talent executive is Stephanie Stern. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and Brian Pugh. Original music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcasts is Lital Mollad. Special thanks to Jay Punjabi, Jodine Dorsey, and the entire Masters of Scale Summit team. Visit mastersofscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our newsletter.