EP 601: Warehouse Automation Readiness with SLAM
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And now, here's Kevin. Hey, it's Kevin with the New Warehouse Podcast here at ProMat 2025. And on the couch joining me here, I have Kyle Smith from Invista and Ryan Boyd from SRSI, Salt River Systems, joining us. And they're representing the Slam Embassies.

MHI Industry Group. And we're going to talk a little bit about that industry group, but we're also going to talk about the SLAM section of the operation. So you guys want to kick us off here? I guess tell us first, you know, how's the week going? We're on the last day. We've got a few hours left of ProMat 2025, closing out strong here with a good conversation, I think. But how's the week been? The week's been great. I mean, I'll tell you, I was having a conversation last night with a client.

And they were talking about the positivity in the show this year, which is a little bit different than previous years. You know, there's a lot of good forward momentum for people right now. And I'll tell you, coming out of the show, it's one of the best I've had in a while.

Nice. Good to hear. Yep. I would echo that. And it seems like customers came with a defined focus this year. It wasn't as much open-ended questions. It was, we're looking for XYZ. So it was a really good show for us. Nice. That's good to hear, definitely. And I think it's very interesting to hear that, right? That they have a plan. They're a little more educated, too, as well. Because...

There's so much technology out here where a couple years ago, whether it was ProMat or MODX, I think a lot of people were coming and just seeing what's even possible. And now I've got to learn about this. And now I think that has caught up a little bit. And I love the positivity, definitely. That's a good thing to hear, for sure, for the industry.

So you guys are representing the SLAM group of MHI. So, Ryan, why don't you tell us what that's all about? Yeah, so SLAM has a couple different terms, especially now in this age of robotics. On one side of it, it's the simultaneous location and mapping when it comes to the AGVs and AMRs. But in our particular space, I think it's the simplest form, which is

how people get into automation, but it's, you know, you scan, label, apply, and manifest, right? In order to do that, you have to know what's going on inside your four walls in a way that's strategic and it's process managed, right? Yeah. So...

I think it's kind of the first step for anybody that's thinking about automating because if you don't know how you're going to do things in a given day before you're doing them, you're kind of behind the curve. I've seen some locations where I've gone to and they say, "Hey, we're getting a director from the corporate office. We want to automate." They're like, "Okay, let's do it." You walk inside the building and they're doing line side calls for manufacturing with WhatsApp.

That's a problem. Yep, 100%. But, you know, the automation word gets people all fired up in this industry. They love it, and it's a great word, and it's a great freaking objective to get done when you're trying to make something happen to, one, make more money, and two, save some headaches down the road. But, you know, Kyle and I were talking about this before the show.

You've got to walk before you run. Yeah. And to me, the last five years, that's kind of been my mantra when it comes to talking to people about automating because a lot of people think, hey, I can just do this, but you can't. You know, you go back to the Raymond Network, right, the forklift group. Oh, sure. And their thing about four or five years ago was you've got to optimize before you automate. Right. I love it. I mean, because they're 100% right. You have to figure out what you're doing before you can actually apply something that gives you the opportunity to automate.

Interesting. What do you think? Yep, and I think it goes back to whenever people come to us, right? You hit on automation, everyone's like, yes, we're going to go 100% full steam forward. You need to have an automation roadmap, right? What is it going to look like, right? Current state to future state, and what steps are you going to take to get there, right? And break it into manageable steps.

or progressions of how you're going to automate. Yeah, interesting. And I think it's really interesting too that people are excited about it, right? And I think it definitely is an exciting thing. Like you come in here and,

Like, wow, like, this is cool, right? These things are cool, right? And we, you know, we see all these things and we want to be like, oh, yeah, let's try this. Let's do that. Let's do that. So for the SLAM process themselves, I mean, what type of automation solutions are we seeing out there? What is really kind of applicable to that part of the operation? Well, I'll tell you, that's kind of a moving target, too. I mean, it's growing every year. Like, if you go back five, ten years in this entire space, I mean, yeah.

The whole idea of automation was a sexy word. People loved it. And nobody really knew what the potential was. But as we get better and better at doing certain things in the industry, those type of technologies grow as well. So as far as the scan, label, apply, and manifest piece, it's really just knowing what's going on in your house. It's more housekeeping than anything else. So if you can master that piece of it,

you're on your way to doing things in a really good way. I think echoing what Kyle said earlier, the whole continuous improvement roadmap is really, it's a big part of what we do every day. I tell customers all the time, we're going to do this and we're going to hit the nail right on the head and we're going to fix these six problems that we have in front of us. But once we do this, guess what? You're going to find another six problems that we're going to have to go after. Yeah, there's going to be more problems. It opens the door for more opportunity. So,

So when it comes to SLAM in our space with the label and manifest side of it, it's really more about just getting your house in order and making sure that you're ready to do those types of things like automate. Yeah. And if you can't do the simple things like making sure that the right stuff's going out the door, it's really hard to do the hard things. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Okay. Yep. And I think, right, one of the things, right, it's the last 100 feet of the warehouse. Mm-hmm.

right so you're picking a specific area right and we're going to correct any issues we have there right you look at you know what what do you look for right you're manually applying labels right you're getting chargebacks from your carriers right you're sending or you're getting poor rates for your carrying right you're not doing any rate shopping right so it's how scalable do you want it right do you want to just

put a label on the box and out the door, or do you want to actually go through the full automated process with it? Right. Understanding what SLAM means, I think is important, right? It's not just scan label, apply manifest, right? Scanning, right? It's reading barcodes, yes, but you're also check weighing, right? Dimensioning the case, right? On the labeling side, it's not just printing the label. Where are you getting the label information from? Are you rate shopping? You know, is the placement of the label important?

So all those things, right, need to be factored in. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a lot of different kind of individual parts, like you were saying there, Kyle, of this overall process, right? And how do we kind of bring them together? How do we tie them together as well, right? So one is, you know, positively impacting the other, right? And, you know, we're not getting faster on label placement, but then we're getting slower on palletization or something like that at the end of the

How do we coordinate that all together there? So how do you advise people to, I guess, get themselves set up so that they're ready to apply these technologies? Because to your earlier point, you want to optimize before you automate. So you don't want to go grab a...

grab one of these humanoid robots if you're still even just picking on paper, right? There's a lot of steps in between until you can get to that level. So how do you recommend people to kind of, I guess, kick off that process? Like what are some of those initial steps and how can they really set themselves up for success with technology down the road? We'll be back after a quick break.

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Yeah, and I think understanding what their current process is. Are they using WMS? Are they using ERP? Is it currently a manual operation? Tape measures, desktop printers, desktop scales. Understand what their process is and what that future state is going to look like. And does it go to a fully automatic solution or a semi-automatic solution? There's

you're low scale, right? Mid scale and then you're high scale fully automated. So first understanding customer requirements, right? And I said it earlier,

current state to future state where they want to get to. Yeah. No, and I'll echo that as well. I mean, you know, we have a comprehensive phased approach to the way we approach every single application. Somebody says, hey, I need more pallets in the place, right? We go looking in. What's the current state? Where's the as-built? We look top-down. I'll tell you, you'd be amazed at how many customers I walk into that you're like, hey, do you guys have a layout of your facility?

and they don't. And so you build it, right? Yeah. And I tell people all the time, I'm kind of a geek when it comes to that because I'd love to know what's going on in their building before I even try to recommend any solutions to help them. So, you know, for example, uh,

Yesterday I had a call with a client, and we were going back and forth about certain processes that happened. And I went straight back to the point of, listen, you understand your business better than I ever can. I'm just doing my best to try to keep up. And so to Kyle's point, you look for the as-built or the current state and where they're trying to go, and you build the roadmap to get there. Interesting. I agree.

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's very interesting, like you said, that you go in and they're like, oh, we don't even have a layout of our building or a drawing of our building to go on. And I think a lot of people are in that position because traditionally, if we think back maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, none of this technology was around. I mean, this show is...

dramatically changed in the six years that I've been coming myself here. So, you know, having kind of all these other data points and information and everything is relatively new for a lot of organizations that have been doing things a certain way for so long, right?

And how do we adjust the mindset to be able to do that? So I'm curious here, as we're at ProMat this week, what has been some of the things that you guys have been hearing from customers who are maybe in that kind of position or they're looking to advance their automation or advance their technology overall for it?

I mean, it's all over the place, right? Just the emergence of AMRs, right? It's a game changer for the whole industry, right? How people are...

picking, right? I mean, goods to person, goods to robot versus the old traditional pick the cart. I'll tell you, I talked earlier about how positive the show was, right? So this is the first show since the whole COVID roll in that I've really felt a good forward path with everybody just looking at automation. You know, during COVID you had the big labor shortages and everybody was like, wow, it's costing us a lot of money to get people inside the building. Whereas before you could just throw bodies at it, right?

So the whole thought process of system driven processes inside of a building really kind of didn't exist at the companies that were making money.

And so they couldn't make money because they couldn't throw bodies at it anymore. Yeah. And now I think people have kind of reset their focus on what they think they need to do going forward. And it's more, hey, I can't just throw another person at it because that person may leave tomorrow over 25 cents an hour. Yeah, that's right. And they're thinking a little bit harder about what they're doing. So previous shows, people come around, they'll kick the tires, they'll look at what's going on. And I don't know if they're really ready yet. Mm-hmm.

This show, the questions that were there, to Kyle's point earlier, are very focused. They're very specific. Yeah. And that's encouraging because that means people are really thinking about this, not just showing up for a trade show and hoping that the best happens after. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting, interesting. So let me ask you an interesting question then. What's the...

What's the best question you were asked by a potential customer this week? You know, I'll tell you, the most thought-provoking one for me because of what I've seen in the last few years was the one about who to trust, right? Interesting. You know, there's been a lot of court cases in the last few years when it comes to automation technology because, unfortunately, because it's exploded so fast, you've got a lot of people out there that are still trying to find their way. And I think really, you know, the answer that I had for that was,

You really need to look at what you see here because it's all awesome. It's all cool. But you really need to dive into who's got stuff in the field that's working. And I think that really is what it boils down to is that, listen, there are a lot of guys out there with really cool ideas. Super new companies that are pitching some really neat stuff. But it looks great in the booth.

Yeah. You got to see it out in the wild first. Right. And if you see it out in the wild and they can make that happen, that's kind of the people you need to trust. Yeah. And I think it goes back, right, to the trust point, right? Are you going to go with a single source manufacturer versus an integrator that's going to integrate all the pieces together, right? Because they...

As an integrator, you're out there looking at the best for the client. I'm not tied to a specific manufacturer. And you can put all those pieces together. So when you talk about a slam line, there's multiple pieces to it. Scanning, labeling, weighing, dimensioning. It's a multi-vendor approach and partnering with the right company, somebody you can trust, that has the experience in that field.

I'd agree with that. And I'll tell you, I use this phrase all the time. I talk about square pegs and round holes. Yep. Because when you're a rep, and this is not a knock on any OEMs by any stretch of the imagination, but they're really good at what they do. Yeah. Because it's their singular focus, but...

To Kyle's point, as an integrator, we don't really have that dialed in because it's our only product. We have the ability to take different products and different softwares and merge them together, which gives us an advantage. I'll tell you, years ago when I went from a company that was primarily factory-owned to a company that was a dealer, it took me a better part of a year to figure out how the heck were these guys crushing it the way they were. But the truth is it dialed back into that.

we have the ability to go out and say, okay, listen, I like this widget with this software with this HMI, right? And I think these work best together. Whereas if somebody else is singular focused on what they're trying to just move out of the factory, it's not the same approach. Interesting. I would agree. Yeah, interesting there. And I definitely agree with what you said about it.

seeing it in the wild because you know in a booth here right at promat i mean it's like it's going to be the perfect it's going to be the perfect scenario right you know it's going to have all the nice lighting it's going to have all that stuff and uh and so you know i think it's very interesting there so let's talk a little bit about because in the slam perspective right you know we see and especially on like an e-commerce fulfillment side or something like that there's a ton of volume that's moving through there but the volume can be variable you

in a lot of cases, right? You have some seasonality and things like that. So how do you think about, you know, looking at some of these technologies or applications to apply to those last 100 feet? How do you think about scalability and flexibility when it comes to some of these newer technologies?

Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, anytime we're putting an application in place, we talk about flexibility all the time because to what I said earlier, we're going to fix these six problems, right? And then when we fix these six problems, we're going to find another six problems that happen because we made it better already. Let's make it even better. That's the whole continuous improvement ideology.

But at the same time though, what I understand, and it started even as simple as something like storage, right? Back in 2005, I had a customer say, "Hey, you know, we're going to these facilities. We only want eight foot uprights because that's as high as we're going to go." And I knew these guys well enough to know that, like, listen,

I've played this game with you all before, right? Yeah. You say this is what's going to happen, and then six months from now, you're going to tell me, hey, we need to go 20 feet because you've got 20 feet to go to the root. Yeah. So, you know, that kind of instilled something in my brain back then that every single solution I have, I need to look at the worst common scenario for them and give them the opportunity to grow when they don't even know they need to grow.

So to your point earlier, you know, flexibility is a big thing. And whenever you're putting in applications or you're putting in a solution for somebody, you need to think about, okay, what's going to happen that I'm not seeing right now? Because, again, fixing six problems, you'll find another six that's in there. And those people know their application way better than I ever could. But at the same time, though, I need to have a little bit of forethought to say, okay, what do we not know? What do we not see right now? And what do we need to prepare for?

Interesting. What do you think? I think it's providing data-driven results, right? It's not just, hey, we think we need this. Okay, here's a solution for it, right? Let's look at the data behind it and let's look at a one, three, five, ten-year growth plan. You guys may not...

forecast out a 10-year plan, but the past 10 years you've grown at 10% year over year. That's probably going to continue, maybe increase if you're getting in the e-com. So you need to factor in the data piece of it as you're building the solution for the client. Yeah, I would echo that. I mean, 100%. You look at some of the most successful people, and they are data-driven. They're process-driven. The people that kind of do it willy-nilly, that are doing line-side calls with WhatsApp,

that want to automate, it gets you in trouble sometimes. Oh, yeah. But, you know, if you're looking at KPIs and you're looking at what your end effect is, you can back into any solution you want to do. Yeah.

Interesting. I would agree. Yeah. So now you mentioned there, Kyle, the kind of 5, 10, 15-year plan right there. And thinking about the future, if we look at the SLAM area, that 100 feet, right, what do you think the future of that area looks like? What are we going to be seeing there? Well, you know,

possibilities are on this in automation because everything's changing. But I just think traceability and accuracy is the big thing with the slam line. You're not relying on humans anymore to get that

you know in the delivery space last mile warehouse space last hundred feet right it's really just more consistency and accuracy right it's shipping i mean it's a huge expense for yeah any company right yeah so get getting the accuracy accuracy in that area i think is huge yeah there's no question i mean and with ai and everything that's happening right now i mean ai's been around for 40 years yeah we just haven't used it in the way that we're using it right now right

But with anything that is technology-based, as the technology gets better, it makes it to where things happen a lot faster because you can process the changes that are coming in front of you. And then you get people that have these, you know, sometimes it happens at a bar. Sometimes it happens in a boardroom. They get these harebrained ideas that all of a sudden, wow, I mean, you go all the way back to compact computers in Houston, Texas, and they drew it up on a napkin. Yep. Yeah.

You have a laptop? Yeah, I do. Right in front of you? Yeah. The laptop was born, right? But back then it was a suitcase. Yeah. It was too big. Yeah, definitely. But, you know, again, anytime you have technology that's getting better and better, it creates an environment where the next level of technology can be even greater. And it just takes somebody having a great idea.

and putting it into process to make it work. Yeah. Yep, and I think, right, the technology that happens, right, we keep referring to the last 100 feet, but, you know, it opens the door for the 1,000 feet before it and 500 feet after it. Right. Now are we going to do automated...

sorting into the container. 100%. Yeah. Interesting. You got to know what you're playing with, right? Yeah. If you don't know what you're playing with, then you can't do what you need to with it. So, you know, you hear a lot about LPNs and unique identifiers with anything that's coming down the line. You know, you can get crazy and go under the million dollar sorters or the million dollar cranes that are in aisles. But if you don't know what you're picking up and putting down. Yeah.

It's not going to work. Yeah, exactly. Right. You need to know what's there and have that visibility definitely and get your arms around some of that information and data too, right? So to really know what's going on there. So it's really interesting to talk to you both and kind of dive into what's going on in the slam side of the operation and some of that automation too and just the

approaches to technology in general. So really insightful from you both here. If people want to leverage the SLAM industry group as a resource, how do you recommend they do that or engage? You know, I think it goes back to what Kyle said earlier. I mean, the first thing you need to do is get your housekeeping in order, figure out what your current state is, and then engage with people that you trust.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, go with the people that have done this for a while, that they're not learning it on the fly, and ask them for help. You know, I tell my...

It's funny. I got two grown kids, and I tell them this all the time. It's like, the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. So if you're looking to get into this, find somebody that does this every day, that lives this, that loves it, that wants to come talk about it on a podcast. Yeah. And call them up. There's two guys right here. Let's go. Exactly. But yeah, and a good place to start, right, the MHI website. Go to the Slam Industry Group, right? There's a lot of information on there. And then it also lists off...

you know, some of their trusted partners in this area. All right. Fantastic. Or come to ProMed. Or come to ProMed. Well, no, you got to come to Modex next year, right? Modex next year. Definitely. Well, I appreciate you both coming by the booth and talking to us here about this and dropping some insights on the podcast as well. And we'll definitely put all that information at thenewwarehouse.com as well as in the show notes so people can connect with Kyle, connect with Ryan here, and also learn more about the SLAM industry group. So,

Thank you very much once again for coming by. You've been listening to the New Warehouse Podcast with Kevin Lawton. Subscribe and check us out online at thenewwarehouse.com. Enjoyed this episode? Make sure you are subscribed to the podcast and for more content from The New Warehouse, find us on LinkedIn and YouTube. Links to subscribe can be found in the show notes. And for everything The New Warehouse, head to thenewwarehouse.com.