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Thank you for being here. G'day, as we would say in Australia. How are you? We should just actually tell the details of that story, though. It is pretty interesting. My family, my wife Jackie is in the front row there next to the camera. Jackie, say hi to everybody. We took our family to Australia in December of 2019 with the idea that we would spend a month there. And along the way, I was going to meet with Ross because we had heard about each other. We thought that would be a good thing.

Didn't happen. You know, it's funny, you Americans all think that everything in Australia kills you because I often talk to people and they say, "You've got sharks, big white sharks." And I go, "Yeah, I've swum with great white sharks."

And then we have bushfires, none tragically quite so bad as the horrible Palisades bushfires. But Bryce happens to be there at a time of utter apocalypse. - Ross, we got off the plane and everything was on fire. The whole country was on fire, it felt like. And we had actually thought this will be great 'cause we were sort of fleeing brush fires in Los Angeles at the time.

And then we went, and at least it was different. These were bushfires, so that was different. And we show up there, and the entire schedule we had got thrown up in the air because the truth is nothing worked. We tried to meet you in Sydney. We couldn't get into Sydney. The smoke was so bad. Yep, and then you fled the country. Well, you know, the funny thing about it is we had these tickets. We were there most, close to a month,

So we said, well, you know, it's bound to get better, which of course it didn't. And it was a tragedy. I mean, the Palisades in Los Angeles, a tragedy. But I took a drive with one of my sons and we saw all these dead animals in the road from the fires. And it was tragic. And so we didn't meet. So let's talk about, for the benefit of the audience who don't know what need to know is. Sure. What are we doing? What do we do?

Well, that's interesting because I'll finish that story then because so Ross and I, having not successfully managed to meet each other, said, well, let's do a Zoom. So we had a Zoom and we enjoyed it. We said, well, let's Zoom again because we enjoyed talking to each other. So we were Zooming away. And I can't remember if it was you or me, but one of us said, this is almost like a podcast. We could almost put this on the air. Yeah, because I think what we both recognized and

I know George and Jeremy do this very well as well with the Weaponized podcast. I think they copied us, to be honest. But I think what we recognized was that there's a lot of podcasts that are reporting like the news of the week's events. And there's so much news, especially since 2017. But there's not a lot of analysis.

And the thing I loved about Bryce when I met him was the guy is an encyclopedia of UFO history. I mean, you want to know any of the old stories in ufology, Bryce knows them all. He's the guy with the Betty and Barney Hill option. I was talking about McMinnville with you the other day and you started telling me the whole McMinnville story. Which we'll get into in a minute. Absolutely.

I think it works really well that we complement each other. I'm a news journalist. I work, as probably most of you know, for News Nation, the cable news network here in America. And I do that from my home in Australia, and largely because in 2023, I was responsible for bringing the David Grush story to television and exclusively... Absolutely. Thank you.

And more recently, of course, you would have seen Jake Barber now running Star Wars. Thank you.

And I mean, I guess where I come from and where I figure I fit in and need to know is I'm a hard-headed news journalist. I'm a reformed attorney. I used to be a lawyer in a past life. And I saw the benefit of changing my job and becoming what I'd always wanted to be, which is a journalist. I was always naturally curious. I always wanted to investigate things. And it's a real privilege and an honour that when I...

When I went down to the Southern Highlands, south of Sydney, thinking I was going to have a quiet retirement and write an interesting book about UFOs, which I planned to debunk UFOs, I was an absolute, total sceptic. I was convinced I was going to expose the black aerospace program that revealed the fact that this was all nonsense and that UFOs were just a cover for some US black world program. And of course, the rest is history. I discovered it is real.

You know what I like most about Ross? I admire your work and I love your investigative chops. Now you get things done. But what I admired most was during that Zoom, I said to Ross,

Well, if we did a podcast, when would we do this? There's a pause and he goes, what about Thursday, mate? And so we just started. We said, well, we don't really know anything about podcasts, but it can't be that hard. We'll just start recording. And it happened. The thing is, one of the tensions in our relationship is that Bryce is an eminent Hollywood screenwriter, former chairman of the Emmys.

And he's very, very organized. And I'm a journalist, so I'm used to kind of making it up in a hurry. And with things like this show, I always do it at the very last minute. I make it up as I go along. Whereas you've always liked chapters. A little structure. Just a little. Just a little. In self-defense, the reason I feel that way is Ross is...

living, eating and breathing this topic, and he is, I think, the foremost authority on it at this point. I don't quite have that luxury, so I always like to do a little more prep just so I, you know, to hold my own ground there.

But what we've always wanted need to know to be is a little bit different. And for those of you who consume a lot of pot, let's just flash back. Years ago, back in 1996, I did a show with Art Bell and that was on Coast to Coast. And that was basically it.

If you wanted to listen about UFOs, you tuned into Coast to Coast. You listened to Art Bell. That was it. Now, of course, you have options. Boy, do you have options. There's hundreds of podcasts out there about UFOs. You could spend all your day and nights listening to UFO podcasts and probably not get through all of them. I certainly can't.

So what we thought was a lot of those fill their time up with interviews, and interviews are great, don't get me wrong. I think a great interview with a great subject is a fantastic thing. But we thought, what if we do something where we don't do interviews? That what we do is we provide commentary, analysis,

And we realized that the people who are listening to us are busy people. They have jobs, they have lives, they have children, they have things they need to get done in their lives, but they're interested. So our goal with Need to Know then and today is to say, all right, if you listen, if you give us 45 minutes to an hour, we'll try to give you that world. We'll try to tell you what's going on

in this topic since you last tuned in, and then maybe some other things. I happen to think that in years to come, there will come a moment when there's a reckoning with the so-called mainstream media being held to account for their failure to cover this issue. And I freely admit my failure to actually realize that this is such a significant subject in the years before I started dipping my toes into investigating it.

There's a kind of a doctorate you've got to do in ufology, which involves reading a hell of a lot, watching a hell of a lot. And there's an aha moment, isn't there, Bryce? Yes, essentially, he calls it the aha moment. I've always called it the moment of Zen.

The moment, and this is what I would describe it is. It's that moment where at first you're interested. I mean, in fact, everybody here has started at least there. They've been interested and they said, I'd like to know more because either I've had somebody who told me something or I've had an experience or seen something or whatever, but I don't know what it was or what it means. So I need to know more. And you start reading, et cetera. Now, Ross was telling you about, uh,

starting his journalistic credentials, I had a slightly different route to my "aha" moment or my moment of zen. I started in television news, as Ross did. I was a CNN correspondent for a while. And then my wife, as who I pointed out is here, CNN got a new news director in,

And he didn't want me on the job anymore, is how I recall that. And then I went to PBS and then they canceled that show. And then Jackie said, because we were getting married and we wanted to stay in Los Angeles, and I didn't want to get a job as an anchorman in, say, Buffalo or something. Not that there's anything wrong with Buffalo. But she said, "Have you ever read a screenplay? Do you think you could write a screenplay?" And I said,

No, and back then, there was no internet. So Jackie and I drove down to Hollywood Boulevard, where there were people selling screenplays on the street, and we bought two or three of them. I took them home and I read them, and we both said, "Well, you know, there are not a lot of adjectives and adverbs in this. That could be pretty easy. Maybe we could do that." So the first script I wrote became a television series about television news.

And at some point, and this, I'm getting to my aha moment, I had a pretty successful run in Hollywood at that point. And in 1987, I read a book, which you can probably remember. What do you think that book was? Oh, crikey, Bryce. Now you're putting me on the spot. Well, it's the guy that was in the room here before us, Whitley Strieber. And I read Communion, and it scared the shit out of me.

But that wasn't exactly what went through my mind then. What went through my mind was, wow, this could be a great movie if the government thought Whitley Strieber was telling the truth and they wired up his house so that if they ever came back, they could shoot one of them down. And that became a script that I wrote.

that ended up getting produced as the first full original film for the Sci-Fi Channel. It was called "Official Denial," which, by the way, the aliens were not aliens. They were us from the future in that thing. So it's kind of ahead of its time. But the thing is, and here's the aha moment,

I wanted to do a good job. What I always think really makes a great movie is when you realize the people aren't phoning it in, they're not making up stuff. They've actually done their research, they know what's going on. So I said,

"Okay, I don't know a lot about this UFO thing. I've been interested in it, but I need to really work on it." So I started reading everything I could get my hands on. I called people, I did invest, you know, whatever I could. And I remember one night, it was about three in the morning, and I was doing the production draft of this film, "Official Denial," which at this point was just a little glimmer in my head, you know, maybe this could be a good movie. And I'm reading this stuff. I had a stack of books there.

like it would have been yours in today's time. There was a stack of books there, things like Above Top Secret by Timothy Goode and a bunch of other things. And at three in the morning, the kids are asleep, Jackie's asleep, and I'm reading this book and I just kind of put it down and thought, this stuff is real. It flipped, the switch flipped. Yeah, that was a very similar thing for me. It was a lot later for me. Around about 2017...

I read somewhere online about Chris Mellon and the fact that he was a former very senior defence official saying things about UFOs. And as a boy, I don't know if you guys had this TV series in America, but as a boy there was a fantastic British TV series called UFO. And I loved it because I was very self-conscious as a boy about having blonde hair, but the protagonist of UFO was a guy called Commander Straker.

And he was a dude and he lived in a Hollywood studio that went underground and it was the headquarters of Shadow, the secret headquarters of the alien defence organisation. And I was, as a little boy, fascinated with that whole show and I'd always been kind of intrigued by UFOs but like a lot of people when I went into journalism I was acculturated almost immediately into the idea that UFOs are complete nonsense.

And when I say that, it's not like somebody sits in a newsroom and tells you you shall not do a UFO story. It's just kind of understood that when you talk about UFOs, you giggle. And this is still the case very much in the media, both in this country and in Australia, where I've come from.

And it was really interesting because back in 2017, when I heard about this Christopher Mellon thing, I pitched to 60 Minutes, where I was working in Australia, that we do a story about this guy Christopher Mellon. And I rang Mr Mellon and I said, "Oh, could I come to America and interview you? I'm really interested in the fact that there's a senior official talking about UFOs." And he said, "Sure." And so we were scheduled to fly out the next day. And then the very night before I was due to fly out,

the boss of the program rang me and she said, "Roscoe, we can't do this story. If we do a UFO story, we're going to get ridiculed. I'm really worried it's going to drag the reputation of the program down doing this UFO story." And so that's what happened. We didn't do that UFO story, but I was working for 60 minutes and by that stage I'd gone and met Chris and got to know him and I was realizing this is real.

And I'd worked in war zones in Afghanistan and Iraq, and I'd met people in senior levels in the military and the intelligence services. And I reached out to them, knowing that some of them were working in the Pentagon. And I had a meeting with one of them in Georgetown, a beautiful pub in D.C. And I remember I said to him,

quite disgracefully really, I said, "I'm interested in doing a story that, you know, digs into this UFO nonsense and, you know, exposes it." And he said, "What do you mean?" And there was this kind of pregnant pause and I realized he wasn't simple with me. He was implying that there was something to it. And I said, "Are you implying there's something to this stuff?" And he went, "Absolutely." And I've talked to people in the intelligence community, in the military in Australia, and there's a default

dismissiveness. Nobody even thinks about UFOs. They think it's all rubbish. But I was here talking to a senior guy in a very important role, mercifully agreed to take me into his confidence and he said, Ross, this is real. We don't know what they are, but it's real. There is a genuine phenomenon. And then over the course of months while I was visiting the US, I was meeting people, building up relationships and sources and I realised

That was my aha moment. I suddenly went, "Oh my God, this is real." And as a journalist, I was quite shocked because there was such a stooped acculturation in my line of work to the idea that you don't take this seriously.

And looking back on it now, I'm quite ashamed of that attitude because it really makes no sense. The evidence is overwhelming that there is a mystery there demanding to be investigated and solved. All right, Coulthard, there you go. You've left out the best part. How many of you out there ever saw that TV show you mentioned, UFO?

Anybody? Okay, for those of you who didn't, what Ross left out of that story is that the women in UFO all wore tight-fitting silver spacesuits and were bodacious 60s babes, if I'm not mistaken. So what Ross forgot to tell you is what led him into the UFO movement was sex. Now...

Because we are a transparent show, and we don't hide anything from anybody, I will say the same thing happened to me. It wasn't UFO, though. I was, I think, 12 years old, and in my parents' basement, they kept all the old Life and Look magazines. Remember those? They were the large format. These days, everything is small and that kind of thing. These were big, and we would roll them up really tight,

And then we would have magazine fights, where you would face off with the other guy and hit the magazines together until one guy's magazine fell apart, the other guy was declared the victor, and then he would play the next person. So I was rolling up a magazine at one of these things,

And there was this rather attractive French actress on the cover. And so I thought, "Well, before I actually destroy this magazine, I should actually look at her." So I was looking for the article on this woman, and I can't remember her name right now, but she was French, actress, pretty. And as I was looking for that, I came across something else. It was these two photos. It was a single page in the middle of this Life magazine.

And they were the photos from McMinnville, Oregon in 1950. And this was an old magazine, I'm not that old. And I looked at these photos and realized one thing: McMinnville, Oregon was less than 30 miles from where I lived.

And my friends and I had all been in McMinnville many times. In fact, every time we drove to the Oregon coast, we would stop and get chocolate milkshakes on the way in McMinnville. So we knew the place. And we actually knew where these photos had been taken. And we all looked at these photos and went,

That's strange, because remember, this is photos taken in 1950. They didn't look faked, but who are we to know if they were faked? But there was certainly no Photoshop or anything. Somebody actually took a picture, and these were no hubcaps held by a fishing line. In fact, those two photos went on, and they were looked at by Project Blue Book. They were looked at by the Condon Commission.

And over the course... And Bruce McAbee made kind of a... And they've never been debunked, have they? Yeah. They've never been debunked. They're still... I urge you all of them, all of you to look at them. They're as good as you're going to get. And there's really only two ways to look at them. Either they were faked or...

They told us in 1950, the truth flew over a farm, the Trent Farm in McMinnville, Oregon. So after 1947, when everybody was all into UFOs and Roswell happened, America wanted proof. And I always say proof flew over McMinnville, Oregon in 1950.

And I still think that today. I think that part of the problem, Ross, that we're having, and you deal with this all the time, people send you or alert you to one photo or video after another

And the first thing you have to ask yourself, I think, is, OK, is this a scam? Is this real? Has somebody faked this? Right. And at least back then, I didn't think that we had to do that. So, yes, we were both drawn by sex into this. We've tried to transcend it. It's interesting. I was just trying to think of my formative experience. And when I was about 16 years old in New Zealand, where I was living, there was this incident that took place that became known as the Kaikoura Lights Incident.

And UFOs were already in the public consciousness in my part of the world because there'd been an incident that many of you might know about involving a young pilot in Australia called Frederick Valentich. And he disappeared in the Bass Strait about probably two or three months earlier, flying a light plane out to an island between Tasmania and the mainland of Australia.

And his final last words he'd been describing to air traffic control, it's quite chilling air traffic control audio, you can actually hear his account to the air traffic controller of what he's seeing. And he's describing this gigantic metallic craft hovering above and eventually below and then eventually above his plane. And he's slowly freaking out, he's getting more and more upset.

And then his last words are, and it's not a plane. And then you hear this metallic noise, and he's never, ever seen again. What year was Valentin? It was 1978. And it reminds me a lot of the Mantell case from 1949. Yeah, it's very similar. That was the guy that chased a UFO higher than his plane would normally go.

handle the atmosphere. And I think, what was his last word? The last words of his transmission were equally chilling. I can't remember. Something about its size. Oh, really? Huge, I think. And then, boom, he's gone, and it's one of those cases. So one of the things that had happened in this Kaikoura Lights incident that took place a couple of months later was there was a cargo plane that delivered newspapers up the coast of New Zealand.

And a guy who became a friend of mine, Quentin Fogarty, was a reporter from Australia. And he was on the plane with another reporter who's a friend of mine called Dennis Grant, who became an eminent political reporter in Australia and a good friend of mine. And it turned out they witnessed craft, elliptical disc-shaped craft coming up to the cockpit window of this cargo plane.

And through an old family friend, I met the captain of that plane who was delightfully named Startup, Mr. Bill Startup.

And I got pulled into this story very sceptically. I thought it was all nonsense. And I bought, as a 16-year-old boy, the explanation that came out from the New Zealand Air Force that it was eventually proven to be squid boat lights on the ocean and that they'd just mistaken the lights of very, very bright squid boats for a craft in the sky, which was supposedly easy to do. And it wasn't until I was...

many years later interviewing the New Zealand Prime Minister, a guy called Peggy Muldoon, Robert Muldoon. And he'd been the Prime Minister at the time. And I said, "Oh, what about that Kaikoura Lights story?" And he said, I remember he said one thing, he said, "Ah, the Americans wanted that to go away." And it really struck me as odd. And then I was researching my book only a few years ago, and it turned out the New Zealand archives had declassified all the files

And basically it turned out the whole thing was a cover-up. And they really had no idea what these objects were, that they were solid craft, they were detected on radar. I found the air traffic controller, a guy called John Cordy, when I was writing my book, who had actually seen these objects on radar and tracked them moving at speed and doing weird things that couldn't be explained.

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That was one of the moments when I, as a 16-year-old boy, was initiated into a story and made to be very, very sceptical. But then because I'd known that story as a 16-year-old boy and later learned the real story from the archives, it completely reversed my impressions. And I think this is my gripe. My big gripe is...

I get a lot of media friends, and I'm a commentator, if you like, in Australia about things, and they ask my opinion about certain things. And there's this kind of thing that happens when I'm on a panel in Australia and people talk with some derision about my interest in UFOs. And it's still this giggle factor about UFOs. And I often say to people, are you aware that the American government has admitted

that UFOs are a genuine mystery, that you can't dismiss this, that there are objects that are moving according to the five observables, you know, instantaneous velocity, hypersonic velocities, transmedium travel, you know, stealth, anti-gravity. All of these things are not explained and there are objects that are doing this

and they just look at you stupidly. And I think the problem that we have at the moment is that a lot of the media is still locked into that old paradigm, and they really haven't caught up with the facts. The world has changed. Amen, brother. You know, I guess I would say is...

During the course of my UFO coming of age, I used to be treated like the drunk uncle at the wedding. You'd go someplace and people would sort of whisper, don't talk to Bryce. Don't talk your ear off about UFOs.

And so that's changed. These days, in the same social situation, people will say, so I understand you know something about this UFO thing. Yeah, a little bit. Well, what's going on? Which is a very, very different place than we are. So it's been a frustrating time for a lot of people. I remember, I mean, most people here of a certain age are probably fed up

up the here with not knowing exactly what's going on because it's very clear other people do know some things that are going on and they're not sharing their work. That's a little frustrating, I think, for all of us who are interested. I don't have a horse in the race as to what I hope it is. I just would like to know. I'd like to know a little bit more. Let's talk about, by the way, Ross, the theme of

contact in the desert is something called event horizon. So I got out, we were at breakfast having some coffee and we looked it up on the internet because of course that's the only way to get information these days and it said a boundary beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer.

I'm not even sure what that means, but we heard from Captain Ron before we came out here. He had a different thing in mind. Yeah, thank God we asked. So what Ron's using the term event horizon to mean is that we're coming to the cusp of dramatic change. And I like that because I think we are. I think we're entering into a paradigm shift.

It's interesting, though, because if you'd asked me earlier in my research, I would have said probably three or four years ago that what we're looking at is a recognition of extraterrestrial, off-planet, non-human species engaging with this planet. And you know what? I no longer think that's the most likely explanation. I think it is a non-human intelligence, or it might be

a human intelligence, a highly advanced one, possibly from the future. I just don't know enough. But increasingly, I'm drawn largely because of the work that I've been doing since I met Jake Barber and I learned about consciousness and the growing importance of consciousness. I'm increasingly drawn to the mystery of consciousness.

And it's really funny because when I first had those meetings in Georgetown over a drink with people from the intelligence community, one of them actually said to me, "It's all about consciousness." And I remember thinking, "What the flaming heck is he talking about? This is about aliens. It's nothing to do with consciousness." And I remember when Leslie Kane went off after writing her wonderful UFO book and she got into the afterlife.

And I remember I teased Lesley about it when I met her. I said, "Why are you doing books about the afterlife? You're an eminent commentator on UFOs." And she gave me a very knowing look, and I learned a lot from Lesley because she basically said they're all connected. And for years, I've racked my brain to try and understand why there's any connection between consciousness, the afterlife, spiritual ideas, and UFOs. And I have to admit, increasingly,

I think that event horizon is more to do with consciousness than it's anything to do with aliens. I suspect that there are aliens that have engaged with this planet. And when I say aliens, I mean entities, advanced, highly intelligent entities from other planets.

But I think the explanation that we're all going to eventually one day discover is much, much more complex than just a simple issue of extraterrestrials. I think we're talking about intra-terrestrials or maybe even interdimensional terrestrials.

Right. I'm not sure I disagree with any of that, although if I had to bet my house on it, I wouldn't bet my house on what I'm about to say. I'd bet your house on it. I would bet Ross's house on what I'm about to say. I do think there is a being aspect to it, probably extrovertism.

possibly interdimensional, possibly even, as I said in that movie so many years ago, us from the future. One of the final lines in the movie is like, it's not where they're from, it's when, right? But on the consciousness aspect, something happened, right?

just days ago, Ross, where you sent me an email saying you had just received an email from somebody. And we just want to tell you this story, not because it proves anything, but it just raises questions where you say, wait, I thought I was leaning in that direction. What is this all about? Tell them. Okay, so I'm kind of, you know, it's funny.

I'm almost embarrassed to talk about this. It's really interesting. I'm confronting my own taboos in discussing this because I know there's going to be this carping, whinging, troll debunkery in response to what I'm about to talk about, but I don't care. And essentially, I, about probably six months ago, started engaging with people who just all of a sudden started reaching out to me

demonstrating precognitive abilities or abilities to not just see things that we didn't know necessarily were coming, but to explain things. They were telling me they were getting downloads. And one of them is a beautiful woman from South Australia who I had a long conversation with last weekend. And she contacted me and she said, "I just want to give you a message. I'm quite sure why I've got to give you this,

I've got to pass it to you on behalf of Bryce. It's a message for Bryce. And it didn't make any sense to me. It was some guy, John Fickler? Ferreter. John Ferreter. Ferreter. And it was a message. It had the Beach Boys in it.

You tell the story because it made no sense to me and I didn't know why I was passing it on. I wish you were reading the email. You can't access it on your phone. No, I can't. The email he sent me was this woman saying it's a message for Bryce

I'm sensing John Farreter and he wanted to say something like, "Yo, wild ride ahead, take care." Or something. And it was a quote from a Beach Boys song. And then she said, "I'm also hearing 'Good Vibrations,' which is a Beach Boys song, okay?

Ross sends this to me and I go, "John Faradar? John Faradar was an agent of mine at William Morris Agency. He died in 2019. I obviously don't spend a lot of time thinking about him, but I will tell you this. He was a reality agent at William Morris. He represented Mike Love of the Beach Boys.

and he played in a couple of bands that were opening acts for people like Tom Petty and things like that.

I don't know what to make of that other than we did a little searching. If you go to the internet and you put my name in and John Ferret or the beach... There's no link? None of this. There's no way that she sort of casually figured this out. It just... It felt real. Well, I'll tell you another story. My daughter will be embarrassed about this. We bought her a beautiful set of stereo headphones and she lost them. And...

I was telling this to one of the people I talked to, that one of my children had lost her stereo headphones. And he stopped for a moment and he said, "Tell her to look in her yoga studio." Anyway, I conveyed that message. Sure enough, she'd left her headphones in the yoga studio. I've had a lot of this in the last few months. And I honestly, it creeps me out a little bit because some of the messages I've been getting are quite personal.

And what I'm finding is fascinating is I'm increasingly drawn to the ideas of a guy I met last year, Professor Dr. Stu Hameroff, who together with a guy called Dr. Sir Roger Penrose, a British academic, they're two brain scientists who hypothesized that consciousness is non-local.

and that there is a capacity, hypothetically, in the human brain to use a known structure of the brain called microtubules, which can apparently be found in our neurons, connect at the quantum level, a kind of quantum entanglement, if you like. And the hypothesis, and it's still only a hypothesis, and it's much debunked and scepticised about,

But the hypothesis is that the human brain, perhaps through the pineal gland, has the capacity to connect with that non-local consciousness. And I've been searching for an explanation in the last few months since I started talking to psionics, people who have purported telepathic or psychic abilities, to try and explain what these people are describing to me because

I'm talking to a large number of people now, an incredible number of people, who have described weird abilities to connect with a non-local consciousness. It might explain psychic phenomena. It might explain UAPs. Maybe the reason why a psychic or a person with telepathic psionic abilities can summon, if they are indeed summoning or perhaps inviting a craft, if indeed it is a craft,

Maybe the reason they can do that is because there's an inherent capacity in human beings to do these things that perhaps in our over-technologized society we've forgotten about.

And could that explain why so many primitive civilizations have shamans and seers and witches and wizards? You know, is it why that there's a much stronger spiritual connection to gods and beings and ideas of beings in smaller tribal societies? I'm fascinated with this and I'm a little bit worried people are going to think I'm going down that rabbit hole. That's what I think.

I think you've gone over the edge here, Kaltar. You know, in addition to consciousness, there is also sort of the twin things of synchronicity and coincidence, right, that sometimes line up outside of the UFO story, and yet people think that they might be related. So I have two very quick things I just want to throw out there. When I was doing the NBC series Dark Skies, which is that series, it was...

I was working with a guy named Brent Friedman and he had seen my UFO library and he said, "You know, I don't see Mothman Prophecies in it. You should really read that." And I went, "Oh, I really don't know that too much about it." So I bought a copy of Mothman Prophecies and I was reading it and went out to take my young son to the movies.

And we went and saw a movie. And the Mothman Prophecies was laying in my car because I was reading it wherever I would go places. And I get out of the movie theater and my son and I are walking toward our car. And there's a guy at the end of the parking lot in a long, dark trench coat. I'm not making this up. Long, dark trench coat walking toward us. And so I sort of grabbed my son and said, get on this side of me.

and just keep your eyes straight ahead. Because he looked weird, but I didn't want to run or anything because my car was there. I said, just look ahead. We'll just keep walking. So we were walking to my car, and as the guy walks past me, he's carrying the Mothman prophecies.

I don't know how that stuff happens. Here's another one. Richard Dolan and I are writing a book called AD After Disclosure in 2010. And we would have these conversations about anything and everything to try to figure out what to put in the book. And one day, one of us was just saying, well, what about the power of threes? Is there anything to the power of threes? We had this conversation.

And we didn't really think too much of it. I had no files open that day on my computer, nothing at all. But I did have a file where I kept notes. The very next day, again, that file was not open. I wasn't taking notes when Richard told me this and we were talking. I opened the file the next day and there are three lines of threes in the middle of the file.

and I didn't put them there. I don't know how they got there. How does this stuff happen? You know, it's funny. When you start talking about dark skies, your whole series, the thing I find uncanny about that series is how much of what you wrote in dark skies is now what is passing for the alleged reality in accepted UAP disclosure. It kind of is. Just...

Okay, Darksides was on NBC in 1997. So at one time that was my current credit, now it's ancient history. But it was my friend, Brent Friedman, I created it basically saying that it was a story set in the 1960s during the Kennedy administration and a young congressional president

I guess an employee at a congressman's office, young guy, is given the opportunity to find something that they can cut from the budget and he's told go figure out how to cut Project Blue Book. And he does such a good job of investigating that he's found by Majestic 12 and they end up saying you work for us now and that kind of became the series and then he gets a piece of Roswell to Kennedy and the pilot, Kennedy gets killed.

And the whole series was sort of tying Kennedy and UFOs together, which now people actually think... We're talking about Malmgren there, I mean, right? So, certain... And so we... I mean, I could do five hours on this, but we sort of marched through history in the '60s, historical events, UFO events, winding them together, and it was pretty interesting. Might indeed be an occasion when the military or the intelligence community

actually actively involves itself in trying to control how a story is told. Because I've always been fascinated by the fact that, say, E.T. looks so much like

the portrayal of the Greys that you get from Whitley Streber's account in Communion or so many of those experiencer stories. So there's just that possibility, isn't there, that there is an office of naval intelligence that's going around discreetly seeding ideas in Hollywood.

From my side, there's always been this allegation or this suspicion that in the media, there are these men in black that turn up in the office of a newspaper office and tell you, "You shall not do this story."

And I remember a lot of people when that Calvin UFO, that big craft that was allegedly photographed over Scotland was a big issue. A lot of people were talking about British denotices and the idea that the media was told and ordered to shut up about it and that a British censorship notice, a denotice was issued to shut it down. And you know what I realised as a journalist? You don't need that.

So strong is the taboo that in the times when I saw stories coming up about UFOs, and it happened to me once when I was working on the Sydney Morning Herald. I remember I've told this story a few times. There was a lady who'd been hanging out her washing in Western Sydney, and she'd looked up

and seeing an elliptical metallic craft, a disc, hovering over her washing line. And she grabbed her camera, a film camera, and took, I think it was two shots. The first shot was pretty blurry, but the second shot was like absurd. It was very sharp and clear, high resolution image of a disc floating in the air. And the reason I know that is because I was in the newsroom of the Sydney Morning Herald on a Sunday

And I was very young and I was responsible for filtering calls from the public at the time to decide what stories we might do for the four o'clock conference call when the editor comes in and makes the decision about what goes on the paper the next day.

So I was really proud of myself because I had said to this woman, "Bring your camera in. We'll get it developed. We'll get the photo developed straight out of the camera so there's no risk of tampering." Because if she'd taken the film out of the camera, unless she knew really well what she was doing, she couldn't have inserted the photograph on the film and then put it back in the camera.

So the chief photographer in the newspaper takes the film out, he develops it, comes out with these beautiful transparencies showing this crystal clear image of this disc. And I'm really excited. I'm thinking, "Wow, I'm going to be able to show the news editor what a great job I've done. I've got this scoop story for the paper for the next day." And it was amazing because I remember I showed it to that then news editor and he looked at me and he went, "Roscoe, we don't do UFO stories."

"What?" And he went, "We don't do UFO stories. They're bullshit. This is obviously a hoax." And I went, "But how could it be a hoax? The film was taken straight out of the camera." Anyway, the long and the short of it was it never ran in the paper. But I know the photo went into the Herald's archives, and unfortunately the Herald's archives were sold to a gentleman in California a few years ago when they rashly tried to make money by selling their archive.

And I contacted the head of the archive a few years ago and he said, "You're welcome to come and have a look, but there's no order and there are millions, millions of these photographs in boxes. You'll never find it." So, the point is that for both of us, Bryce has got evidence, I guess, of the suggestion that there might have been some kind of military intelligence involvement.

But for me, the big realisation that there is that kind of meddling that goes on was when I was investigating the case of Westall, which is a case that took place in April 1966. And there were about 100 to 200 school kids on a playground in a school in central Melbourne. Broad daylight, crystal clear, blue sky day. There's a science teacher called Andrew Greenwood standing with them, watching the kids as they play.

And he looks up, along with all the other kids, and they all start screaming because there are either two or perhaps three elliptical metal disks hovering in the air just above the kids. And Andrew is adamant that what he saw were disk-shaped objects. He doesn't say craft, he says objects. He's a science teacher, so he's very precise. Anyway, he's at the time, I think, a young 27-year-old science teacher and

This is the 1960s. You do what you're told if you're a teacher. And he had spoken, I think, to the media and he was quoted in the media. And the evening after the quote appeared in the press, he told me how there was a knock on his door late at night and I think it was one man was in uniform and the other was in a black suit. And they said to him, if he kept on repeating this story, they would make sure he never worked as a teacher again.

And they said, you know, we could put it out that you're an alcoholic and make sure that you never work as a teacher again. And it's funny because Andrew is now a very elderly man and he gave me permission to tell his story, identifying him for the very first time. But it was such a trust thing for him. What was that? 60 years later.

to have the courage to speak about something that he'd been threatened not to talk about all those decades ago. It was a huge decision for him to go public. And ever since then, I've had other leads suggesting that there was intelligence involvement in suppressing this story. We know from people who've been at the scene in the days following that the military came in and literally removed

the top three or four inches of soil where one of these craft landed in an area of bushland. And so there was this elaborate cover-up. So I do think there is

a whiff that both of us have experienced of evidence of intelligence community involvement in trying to control or suppress the story. That's true, Roscoe. But the other thing I love about that story is it's 30 years before the aerial school story. Absolutely. Which feels very similar. Happened in 1994 in Zimbabwe. Yep.

feels very similar and you really have to ask yourself what kind of intelligence is

targeting school kids to tell them... Like, here's the question I have about the case that you're talking about. In Ariel, the kids felt that they were conveyed a message that there was a danger to the planet and that I guess they were being challenged to try to save us or whatever. Did the kids in Australia do that? No, there were no messages. That's a good question, actually. There were no messages conveyed, or at least none that I'm aware of, conveyed to the kids...

at Westall. It's interesting actually because there was a conspiracy theory that I was able to debunk about Westall. There's always been this story that there was one little girl who got really close to the craft and that she disappeared the day after she touched or not touched, went very, very close to the craft. And I recently found her and interviewed her

Her parents had just moved schools. There was no conspiracy theory. She'd just left the school. And there was this massive conspiracy theory. And it's been there for probably 50, 60 years that she'd been whisked away by dark men in black. She did describe walking up to and holding her hand up and feeling the heat, the radiant heat from this solid metal hovering object that was probably no more than 10 or 11 feet from her.

And it's a chilling story because for the now elderly people who had this experience, it remains the most intense experience of their life. And they have reunions almost every year on the 6th of April 1966, the anniversary of that date.

and they're beautiful people and they're all united by this common shared experience. And I love them to bits because they all make jokes about the fact that all through their lives they've been mocked and ridiculed and treated sometimes with contempt and dismissiveness by the media. It's quite shameful because I defy anyone to sit down with those people and hear their stories and not come away thinking at the very least, you know what?

There really is something to this. A couple of quick thoughts based on that. 1960, well first of all, I've seen the images from that case, the Westall case, and the craft that the children drew, and even I believe the teachers drew, looks very similar to the craft that John Lennon saw in 1974 in New York City. They look like

identical to me. And also, 1966, you know, one of the things about being known for talking about UFOs is that people tell you great things. So because I had done Dark Skies, people are telling me stuff all the time. They're like, hey, you're the guy that did... And then they tell me things. And quite often, they'll start by saying, you know, I never tell anyone this. But... And then they tell me something. And we had a plumber in our house. Uh...

you know, maybe in the last 20 years. And he said, you did that dark skies thing, right? So you know something about this. I went, yeah. And he said, you know, I've never told anybody this story, but in 1966 in Los Angeles, he said that he was out at recess with the entire church

group of children and the teachers, and they all looked up and about a thousand feet in the air was a definite craft. And they're all looking up at it and it went on for roughly 10 minutes. And he was like, "Oh my God, this is so interesting." He comes home and he tells his parents

And they're like, you know, you shouldn't tell anybody about that. And he goes, no, no, everyone's going to be talking about it. So the next day they get the Los Angeles Times and they open it up and they're all reading the Times to see if there's anything about it. And of course, crickets, nothing. There's nothing in the Times or anywhere else. And his parents say to him, listen.

don't you ever tell that story to anybody else again. - Wow, really? - Well, that's the stigma that we have been living with for so many years, where they were like, "That's just gonna make you look stupid, so don't do it." - Isn't that interesting?

There's a follow-up to the story I'm telling you. I had a good friend who's a former source, who was a former very, very senior federal policeman. So roughly the equivalent, say, of the FBI. And I think he'd been at almost the deputy level in a kind of an FBI equivalent organisation in Australia. A former very, very senior, now retired policeman.

And after I did the Westall story for Australian TV, he ran me out of the blue and he was living overseas and he said, "I've seen your story about Westall." And I went, "Yeah, why are you calling me about it?" And he said, "My dad is the guy who wrote the secret report for the Australian government into that incident."

And I said, "What secret report? There never was a report. The government denied it ever happened." And he said, "Oh, that's rubbish." He said, "My father was very senior in civil aviation in Australia, and he was hired by the Defence Department to investigate the Westall case." And every day, I know because I was a young boy back then, I was really proud of the fact that an official car arrived at our family home, picked Dad up,

and took him every day off to the school to continue doing the investigations. And I said, "Are you absolutely sure about this?" And he said, "Absolutely sure." So anyway, to corroborate this, he put me onto a sister who confirmed the story.

And it turned out that the father was so paranoid that he had been involved in doing this investigation, he'd secretly kept a copy of the report. And I'm thinking, "Oh, my God, the family have got a copy of this secret report." And anyway, what happened was it turned out, I think the daughter remembered that the mother, after the father had died, had this document in the backyard.

But I've been trying to find this document in the Department of Supply Records, which is an old, now defunct department in the Australian archives and allegedly doesn't exist. But I don't believe that. I actually am now very, very sure that that document does exist. But there's one more postscript

Because this is really eerie and it's interesting because it adds to this idea that when people get involved in, as this father was, deeply investigating this phenomenon, it sometimes looks back at you. Because both the Federal Copper, the ex-Federal Copper, and his sister told me independently the same story, that the family moved to our capital city, Canberra, and one night I think the two kids were playing in the upstairs room

And there was a UFO, a craft, hovering right outside the window. And it was the full kind of close encounters, white light fills the room. And both of them had this really weird experience of a sense of missing time. And they were still vague by it years later. But I found it very, very interesting that this guy who, frankly, I'd done stories with him, actually, interestingly enough, investigating UFOs.

child sex crimes and terrible things that have been done to children. And one of the issues in that case, when we were investigating the case, were repressed memories of alleged victims. And how do you deal with the idea that somebody's had a terribly traumatic experience

they get demolished in court. Their credibility is absolutely assassinated in court because they've had this alleged traumatic experience, or at least they're saying that they have. And it just sounds so fantastical. And so often he and I, this copper, have lamented the fact that often quite credible cases of organised systemic child abuse were basically ignored because

It was so fantastical. And it's interesting because we saw parallels also in the way that he and his sister would probably never dare tell their story publicly because they risk that ridicule and contempt.

That story creeps me out, but I like it. Listen, I'm going to talk for about a minute and a half, and while you're listening to that, I want you to think about questions you want to ask, and we're going to take questions for the rest of this time that we're here. I was just going to break a little news about what's going on in Hollywood with UFOs, because not only am I trying to always get something going about UFOs, which is

which is something that's its own story, but there's some big projects coming up. Spielberg has a movie coming out in June of '26 that has a working title of "Disclosure." It's already-- I'm not sure if it stopped filming, but it started filming in New Jersey, literally during the drone time, which is crazy, I think a coincidence.

And then Apple, I believe, has a Jerry Bruckheimer film coming out that we think is telling the story of David Grush. Yeah, it is. David's confirmed to me he's working with Jerry Bruckheimer on a film. Okay. So that's a big one. And then, listen...

I'm just going to, this has been in the trades and the trades for you folks is, you know, all the Hollywood sort of coverage and so forth. And this just broke yesterday. So I'm not telling tales out of school. It's all over the internet right now. But apparently Ryan Reynolds is going to play one of our favorite people.

Apparently, they're going to be making a movie about a certain Las Vegas journalist who in the late 80s broke the story of Area 51.

And Ross and I both know George Knapp. I've known him for years. I've been on Coast to Coast many times with him. He's one of the greatest guys. I would say Ross and George are the bookends of UFO investigations, and they're just terrific people. And George has had an incredible life, and that's sort of the time period, I guess, that they're focusing on. I don't know any more details. There aren't a lot of details. And I believe George...

George himself is saying that this was a leak, but you know, a leak is a leak, Ross. I mean, I don't know what to say. I would protect George if it hadn't gone public. I wouldn't tell anybody about it, but it's already all over the trades. So you scooped George's neck, right? Please forgive me, George. We love you. We love you. We love you. All right, let's take some questions. Who's got questions? What about you?

Go. Did we have mics anywhere for questions? If not... Why don't we use one of these mics and Bryce and I can share them. Oh, wait, we've got one. We've got one right there. Yeah. So if you also have a question, just come on over there and we'll do it that way. We've got, as I understand it, about a little less than 20 minutes, so we'll do rapid fire stuff. What do you got? Since you both experienced...

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I don't buy it. I mean, it's a tragedy.

My wife and I were, and our family were evacuated this year, which has nothing to do with the importance of the people who lost their homes. And I don't want to minimize, they lost their homes because we live in a brush fire community, in my opinion. I don't know enough to say that never happened or couldn't happen, but I don't buy it. I think we just have a world that is setting itself on fire more often than it used to, and it's a tragedy. - Look, I agree with Bryce, but I've,

covered bushfires in Australia. And I don't think I'll ever forget seeing the ferocity of a bushfire up close. And it is incredible to see how a eucalyptus fire, which burn incredibly hot because eucalyptus is full of oil,

It basically melts steel. Yeah. And I've seen puddles of liquefied metal. See, I mean, I don't know anything about alleged scalar wave weapons or blue roofs. I'm not sure what that's all about. But I've certainly seen the reality of a natural bushfire completely destroying metal objects. Yeah, you don't need any... I mean, maybe, but...

Nature is a bitch. And I remember working at CNN, flying a helicopter into Palm Springs, right here in Palm Springs, where they had had a terrible fire and landing. And as I looked around, as I got out of the helicopter, all I saw were chimneys, just acres of chimneys. Just the stones were left standing. Everything else was gone. Let's take the next question.

Yeah, so I really started paying a lot of attention to this subject with the David Grush story and interview. At least recently, I have not seen him making public statements. I noticed he's working on a project. But from what you guys have been involved with, do you know if he's going to be making any more, coming up any more public statements or anything, or any other whistleblowers that might be coming forward?

That's your role. I can tell you, David is working incredibly hard behind the scenes. As you probably all know, he's working for Representative Eric Burleson in the Congress, who's a member of the so-called UAP caucus. And I know...

I think a lot of people have said this to me. They don't feel that much is happening in Congress at the moment. And I kind of agree. I'm a bit disappointed that there hasn't been a lot of momentum in Congress. I was actually having an argument this morning with a lawyer online who was trying to persuade me that there is a lot happening in Congress. And I said, look, I'm actually really despondent that...

David's allegations never resulted in even an effort by, say, the chairman of one of these oversight committees like the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence or the Senate Armed Services Committee, to whom he gave sworn evidence. I've never, ever...

seeing any effort to subpoena or to directly request information. And the big problem is what's needed is political momentum. And so that's what Dave's doing behind the scenes. I talk to him very often. I actually talked to him last night. He rang, or not rang, he messaged me to abuse me about something that he thought I was saying that he disagreed with, which was quite fun. We often disagree on things.

And I do think that

He's doing an awful lot of work behind the scenes. Whether he speaks publicly, well, really, that's up to the Congress. One of the problems has been if you want David Grush to give evidence in more detail in a public way, because he's already given evidence, he's given an enormous amount of evidence to the Congress which literally says times, dates, places, locations, people involved, names of programs, that's been given to the Congress.

The issue at the moment is what the hell are they going to do with that information? And I think we're entitled to ask, what are they going to do? Because there's a lot of... I'm getting hassled by people in Congress saying, can you get some of the other people that we know you're talking to in the legacy program, scientists, security people, military people, can you get those people to come forward and give evidence?

And I'll tell you frankly, those people in the program are saying to me, why the hell would we stick our heads up right now when you look at what hasn't happened with David Grush, Matthew Brown and Jake Barber, all of whom have given solid oath evidence, risking perjury to the Congress. And the Congress has done absolutely bloody nothing with it.

So my beef, frankly, it's not with good people like Representative Burleson, Anna Paulina Lerner, and other members of Congress who are doing the good work behind the scenes, for example, on the Oversight Committee. My beef is with members of the very senior leadership of Congress, the people who really make the decisions, the Speaker, the committee chairs. For example, Anna Paulina Lerner on the House Oversight Committee

She can't even make a subpoena to compel production of evidence unless she gets approval from the chairman of the House Oversight Committee. Why haven't they? If they really are interested in transparency, why don't they just give these people powers? Why don't they follow up on the evidence that's being provided by David Grush? It was an act of raw courage for David to do what he did. I know how hard it's been for him and the personal risks that he's taken.

I think for the moment his view is quite rightly he's already stuck his neck out on the block. He's risked his national security classification status and he wants to see other people coming forward. And what we have to do, what we have to prioritise is find a way of kicking those politicians up the... to actually do their job.

Yeah. By the way, folks, this is why I like working with Russ Coulthard. We're a guy that can say, so I'm talking to David Grush last night. I get a kick out of that. I agree with you, by the way, about Congress. They can do more and they can use their power more and they can act on the information they have more. And I hope they do.

But I am kind of optimistic right now because we, for 75 plus years, we've had to wait on the government to reveal things to us. And they haven't wanted to for reasons that aren't entirely clear. I would argue we do not yet understand the actual reason that this secret has been kept to this degree for this long.

But we are now able to reveal it to ourselves thanks to technology devolving from being the military's thing to it's in the citizens' hands now. So I think it's a push-pull. Congress will do more when the public demands more. The public will demand more when they see more. And I kind of am feeling...

relatively hopeful. There's an old saying in politics, the wheel that squeaks gets the grease. And frankly, I don't think there's been enough squeaking from the public to make it clear that this is an issue that they're concerned enough about for politicians to show any courage to actually do anything about it. We are squeakers. Squeak on. Let's take another question. I've got a question based on what Bryce said, although it would be possible either of you could answer this.

It's to do with Steven Spielberg's new upcoming film. I've seen a huge amount of material online, information including photographs of location shoots and things like that. We know what the working title of it is. This is quite unusual in my experience that this amount of publicity would be revealed to the public about a film that's still in production like this.

This is just my opinion. I mean, I don't know the details I have. I don't think they've released any details that are specific about the whole thing. Look, films...

I wouldn't read too much into that. I wouldn't say it's a special case. All important films, and certainly any Spielberg film is an important film, is going to have people trying to learn a little bit more about it. And frankly, discussing things about it that they don't even know. I mean, if you go on YouTube, you can find, you know,

a dozen YouTubes with people saying what they think the Spielberg film is going to be about. I don't think any of us really know. Although, again, in the same way that somebody knew about the Dark Skies pilot, I'm sure there are people out there that know what the Spielberg film is about. I don't. I'll be first in line to see it, though, I'll tell you that. Go for it. ...decades trying to get secrets from official sources. And thanks in great part...

Go.

That's a really good question. I'm actually a bit despondent at the moment. I mean, I saw Sarah Nosser last night, Danny Sheehan's partner, and she cheered me up a bit by giving me an idea that we are going to see some really interesting things happening soon, and I'm excited about that. I like the work of what New Paradigm Institute's doing. I like the role of the UAP Disclosure Fund.

And I'm in touch with people who are gently pushing for Congress to actually start doing more. I get approached periodically and asked if I can give more witnesses a prod to come forward.

The real problem at the moment is there is an inertia because, frankly, I don't think this issue has captured the imagination of the full leadership of Congress. I honestly don't think you're going to see disclosure coming from Congress until it becomes a bipartisan issue and at senior leadership level.

And I'm starting to think that what's needed is what I'm sure the national security establishment fear most, which is some form of catastrophic disclosure, a really massive dump that actually could potentially be quite damaging. Because I know a lot of people, they have a go at us all the time, those of us who are sort of privy to what's going on, and they say, "Why don't you just spew out everything you know?"

And I'm still somebody who cares passionately about national security and defense. I've spent a large part of my life covering wars that we shouldn't really have been involved in. And I think it's important that our policy people in government be allowed to use intelligence in ways that protect national secrets

And it's always a concern in the back of my mind when we're covering this issue, is there some good reason why this is continuing to be kept secret? And I've actually had it out with people in the intelligence and defence establishment, and I've said, "Why? Why don't you just basically come out and admit

And there's always this mild inference that there is something that can't be revealed, but I'm not buying it anymore. I just get the impression that it's all too easy to maintain the cover-up and that, frankly, there are a lot of people who are hiding their own willful fraud on the public. And, frankly, I don't think anything is going to happen in terms of

official government disclosure unless, for example, President Trump does what he promised he would do during his run-up to the election, which was he would be more transparent and open about UAP files and photographs and videos. And I'm going to be saying a bit more about this later on this weekend. I'm deeply disappointed, frankly, with the inertia

the lack of momentum of both Congress and there's a bit too much of a tendency to throw it back at the whistleblowers when the whistleblowers are actually looking at what Congress hasn't done, what it's failed to do. You've had dramatic allegations from David Grush, for example, that frankly should have been more rigorously investigated and they haven't been.

So what's that message? What message is that sending to potential whistleblowers who have families, they love their children, they're genuinely worried they could be murdered if they came out and spoke publicly about this? It's now on the public record, what I've known for a while, which is that there are serious allegations that I do think have credibility and should be being investigated, and now they are being, by the way, that people have been murdered to hide this secret.

And you know what the media do, the mainstream media do when they're confronted with this? They just ignore it. They just giggle and ignore it. And I just do not understand that. I don't understand that mentality. These are grave allegations that go to the whole issue of whether America still is a functioning democracy.

Okay, let me unpack a couple of thoughts there. My theory is screw Congress and screw the media. It doesn't really matter. It's too big an issue. It doesn't matter who's...

you know, manning the barricades at this point. It's kind of like when Dolan and I were working on AD after disclosure, we were trying to find a phrase that would explain what was going on. And we came up with the contradictory one, which was it's impossible, but inevitable.

Of course it's impossible. The people that know it aren't going to tell us. But then it's inevitable because it's so big we'll be able to see it ourselves or it will reveal itself to us or something else is going to go on. I don't think that...

Dolan and I played around with the idea that someday a president might stand in the East Room and say, I've given all you reporters three terabytes on a hard drive of videos and photos and knock yourselves out. That's not going to happen. If the president ever does speak, he'll be speaking probably in reaction to what's going on. But something is going to be going on. And Ross, the only thing that I...

I am concerned that there is something that so-called can't be revealed. I think that probably at the end of the day,

there's something I don't know about and maybe even David Grush doesn't know about, or maybe he does and he hasn't even told it to you in those conversations. I don't know. I just feel like this is something that has an energy of its own, but again, it's inevitable. This is just too big. And it may not, you know, I wish it would happen tomorrow 'cause I'm older now than I used to be and I wish I could see it all.

But I just can't imagine that we're 10 years out from today and we don't all kind of know that something's going on. That's my take. I think we've got time for one more question. Thanks, Ross. This is for you. So I think that things could be a little more conscious based. I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on out-of-body experiences with the HemiSync technology and trying it out for yourself?

It's funny you should ask me that. I actually have got the Hemisync audio tapes and I've been starting because it's kind of become a cruel joke in my house that every time I try and meditate I fall asleep and I'm heard loudly snoring. And I've gone to meditation courses and completely failed. I'm incapable of doing a silent retreat meditation for any longer than a day and a half.

So I've been trying to teach myself how to meditate using Hemisync. And it's really interesting because I recently shared them with a good friend of mine who is an experiencer. And maybe this is a good story to finish with. He contacted me out of the blue. He's quite a prominent businessman in the area where I live. And I was wondering, why is this guy trying to call me? And he said that he had had an experience when he was, I think, 28.

and he had only just found the photograph of what he'd shot with his camera and that had triggered the memory that had been suppressed for decades and decades and decades. And he is now doing the hemi-sync, which is why I'm reminded of him, but he told me this incredible story about how the moment that he'd remembered that he'd had this really unusual UFO sighting with missing time when he was 28, he's now 67 or 68,

it had triggered something in him where he started having these cognitive abilities. And so, I haven't told you this story, Bryce, this is really creepy because my daughter and I are actually going to visit the grave of what I'm about to talk about. He was involved in clearing out a beautiful old house near where we live and he suddenly had this incredible flash of being strangled to death as a little boy.

being sexually abused and he said it was really distressing and what he was in his mind was a little boy being sexually abused and slowly strangled and then the next thing he remembered was being in a swimming pool and drowning and dying and he's crying as he's telling me this and I'm saying what the hell is this and he said you need to have a look at what I discovered and he went back and he showed me a newspaper clipping and

about a little boy drowning in this house that he'd been clearing up in the swimming pool. Sure enough, I went and found all the old files of all of the old newspapers, and there was a report about a little boy drowning in the swimming pool and how the family had sold the house and moved on very soon after. And it's interesting because the house was until very recently owned by a very prominent person in Australia. I won't name them.

And it turned out he'd learned that that person had left the house because his wife was having all sorts of trouble with entities, spirits in the house. And it's interesting, it's one of the reasons why increasingly

I mean, he's now having incredible achievements with Hemisync. I gave him the Hemisync tapes and it really upsets me that I've been trying for months to make these blooming things work for me and it's not doing anything at all. But he got the Hemisync tapes and within a day or two he's remote viewing, he's having these extraordinary experiences and he's remembering things about what happened to him all those years ago.

But I also think it's uncanny that there does appear to be something about UAP experiences and unlocking potentials in humans that they don't even sometimes realize they have. That's great. That's a good story.

Wow. You know, Ross, for a couple of broadcasters, we have committed a sin. We've gone out of time. We have gone over time. We are done. We thank you so much. Have a great time at Contact Interested.